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Lakers enter NBA draft with Lamar Odom trade rumors

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-- The Times' Broderick Turner explains the Lakers' attempt to trade Lamar Odom to the Minnesota Timberwolves for their No. 2 pick.

-- The Times' Mark Heisler expresses amusement over the various NBA trade rumors.

-- Sports Illustrated's Sam Amick reports the Lakers and 76ers are in talks over possibly trading Odom for Andre Iguodala

-- The Orange County Register's Kevin Ding reports that Lakers Coach Mike Brown is buying a house in Anaheim Hills. Have fun with the L.A. traffic, coach. Ding also lists 10 things Lakers forward Matt Barnes could've done to better to ensure a Lakers' three-peat. 

-- ESPN Los Angeles' Brian Kamenetzky offers his take on the Lakers' attempt to trade Odom. 

-- Lakers.com's Mike Trudell talks to Ronnie Lester about the upcoming NBA draft. 

-- Yahoo! Sports' Adrian Wojnarowski reports that Minnesota Timberwolves General Manager David Kahn has decided to fire Coach Kurt Rambis.

-- Silver Screen and Roll's Dexter Fishmore offers his thoughts at SB Nation on a possible Odom for Iguodala deal. 

Tweet of the Day: "Less than two years ago the Lakers gave Lamar Odom $33 million. Now they're reportedly dangling him for a draft pick. NBA, folks." -- thechrispalmer (ESPN The Magazine's Chris Palmer)

Rick Friedman Reader Comment of the Day: "Another thing to think about is how a hard cap would equal better basketball. Why? Well, because with huge income disparities between the two tiers, mediocre or average players, especially ones that feel they could get better, would work their tails off to become a marquee player. Right now, there's a lack of incentive for players to really try all that hard to improve their game." -- Tim-4-Show

--Mark Medina

Email the Lakers blog at mgmedin@gmail.com

Photo: Lamar Odom has become the Lakers' hot commodity to move, but Minnesota reportedly turned down a trade offer that would have sent the NBA's sixth man of the year to the Timberwolves in exchange for the No. 2 overall pick in Thursday's draft. Credit: Robert Gauthier / Los Angeles Times.

 
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Worth reposting from the last thread, as it puts a new perspective on things...

If you do a trade before the draft, then the previous year's salaries count for salary matching and such, and draft picks count as 0 for salary matching. In other words, if the Lakers trade Pau right now, then they'd have to take something like 16 million back.

BUT

If you do a trade AFTER the draft, then NEXT year's salaries count Technically it can't be completed until after they compute the next year's salary cap, but you can submit trades to the league and they will be pending approval after the cap is in place.

and Minnesota has enough cap space to absorb one of the big Laker cap spaces under next season's salary numbers.

So what if the Lakers assume that the "flex cap" will pass, and they know the specific number the owners are going to push. Maybe 90 million. Maybe 80 million.

Maybe these trades for Lamar or Pau aren't because the Lakers are unhappy with their performance last year. Maybe they're just trying to work a trade to get under the number without giving up 4 or 5 players.

Think about it. Forget about all the extra players. If the rumored trade offer Pau Gasol for Kevin Love +#2 pick (which Minnesota would select for the Lakers), then the Lakers would turn one great players into two very good players and cut 9 million off of their salary.

Similarly, if the offer was Odom for the #2, that cuts 5 million. If they manage to do Odom + Walton for Igoudala, then trade Igoudala for the #2 pick (and nothing else), again, they'll cut about 9 million off of their payroll (and keep Pau).

Note that it's not possible to trade Blake (for example) to some team, get less back, and save 9 million. Only trades involving Kobe/Pau/Drew/Lamar could get them that kind of savings.

Letter to Mitch-


What's the one word that you always hear when it comes to winning championships at the highest level. I'm not talking basketball either, I mean sports in general. Think... Chemistry. People have to have good attitudes, leaders that pick each other up. Role models, people of good character. People who have gone through adversity in their lives and they can share their stories to put things in perspective. Does Lamar Odom meet that criteria? Does the lockeroom like Lamar? Was he a leader on the court this year? Will he play any role you need of him with a good attitude? Has he been through adversity? Does he speak up in the huddle, in the timeouts, etc.?


The point is, the intangibles that you need are there. You don't want the reality show, tell him and Barnes, Artest, and every other player to get rid of that crap. Otherwise he's done no wrong. He played in the Olympics and got BETTER. You going to trade him NOW are you kidding me. What if he lives up to the expectations from here on now. Let me say that again. What happens if he plays the same way next year with even more improvement, would it be worth it to keep him then? Cuz the Sixers, Timberwolves or any other trade scenarios are a maybe. I just think it could be a huge mistake and staying pat is at worst a contending championship team. Don't do it, I guarantee it COULD be the worst mistake you've ever done Mitch. It's not worth the risk! In truth, last year's problem- WAS THE COACH.

Hey Chris Palmer,

There was no threat of a hard cap two years ago.

Hey Chris Palmer,

The Lakers once traded their starting center for a draft pick... and look how that turned out.

Letter to Randall4Showtime,

Did you see the Lakers workout with Derrick Williams? Do you know their expectations for how well he'll perform next year of for his career?

Do you remember trading Vlade Divac for a draft pick WAAAAAY at the end of the lottery?

There might be more to this than just chemistry.

From cbssports.com...

"A recent conversation between the Warriors and Lakers centered around Lamar Odom and Shannon Brown going to Golden State for Ellis, but those talks went nowhere, sources said."

I wonder if the offer was for Ellis and the #11 pick (which they could then try to parlay into Tony Parker or George Hill).

"Dangling" LO for a draft pick is one of the craziest things I've heard so far. Ridiculous. A 2 time champ and reigning 6th Man for an unproven rookie? Oy vey....

JAMF,

So, you think trading a quality, near All-Star player for a draft pick is a bad idea?

So for example, you wouldn't trade Vlade Divac in his prime for a draft pick to draft Kobe Bryant?

I just want to make sure I understand clearly.

LTLF - Kobe Bryant's are few and far between. Everyone thought that trade was crazy too! Are you saying this particular draft pick will be another Kobe? I just want to understand clearly.

JAMF...

I'm saying I don't know.

But I think it's actually about money.

Lamar + Luke's salary out, $4million in for the rookie = 9 million savings.

If there's a hard cap, that might make the tough decisions a little bit easier.

What's funny is that this is supposed to be a "weak" draft, yet teams are going insane trying to trade into the lottery range. Offering players like Odom and Tony Parker and George Hill and what have you to get a high draft pick.

It's crazy.

If the Lakers can't manage to pull off a trade for the #2 pick, they should try to buy a pick near the end of the first round. It would give them better odds of snagging someone like Malcolm Lee or Tyler Honeycutt or Nolan Smith. Late in the first round would get them a young energetic player with a guaranteed low salary for 4 to 5 years.

Or they should try to buy a late lottery pick and hope that Kemba Walker or Jimmer Fredette slides down to them.

LTLF - agreed - it's crazy! I just think losing LO on this team is a big mistake. He does so many things on this team that I think can't be quantified in dollars. I get that it's a business, but I don't understand the thinking of trading big pieces of a championship core for unproven players. Not when you've got a healthy Kobe Bryant who wants and needs to win NOW.

>>>I get that it's a business, but I don't understand the thinking of trading big
>>>pieces of a championship core for unproven players.

Again, I'll refer back to the potential eminent hard cap theory.

If the Lakers are going to be forced to reduce salary down to 80 million when the new CBA is signed, then they probably won't get to keep all four of Kobe/Pau/Drew/Lamar anyway (those four make 72 million next season). Thus trading off Pau or Lamar for a lot less salary is less painful then cutting every other player on the roster and signing a bunch of CBA players to play alongside the big 4.

I gotcha LTLF... I guess I just don't like it. (And I know - I'm not alone there LOL!!) I'm worried that all of this is going to mess up our chances of winning NOW. *sigh* Nothing to do but wait and see - and speculate!

If the Lakers are going to be forced to reduce salary down to 80 million when the new CBA is signed, then they probably won't get to keep all four of Kobe/Pau/Drew/Lamar anyway (those four make 72 million next season). Thus trading off Pau or Lamar for a lot less salary is less painful then cutting every other player on the roster and signing a bunch of CBA players to play alongside the big 4.

Posted by: LongTimeLakerFan

This would kind of be like blowing it up(lol) ala miami.
Anyhow It's interesting,not suprising that people don't want certain players traded.You gotta give to get though,you can't give up luke for the # 2 etc.(lol). It should also be noted that while this team has past champions on it,it is not the defending champs,that belongs to dallas.The only thing this current team(if no one goes) will be defending is mediocrity. I'm not saying everyone not named Kobe must go,but lamar would be the next best thingaside from kobe,pau,drew. He's also will be older next season.I'm not going to tear down the swiss army knife,but lamar has checked out lots of times since being in P&G. All in all this sounds like a( won't take dwight for drew moment)...Nobody wants anyone to be given up to try to get better,again you would think "this" team is the defending champs.. The clock is ticking,and as usual most teams,at least the one's with a real chance are trying to get better.You all here that in the background??That's the footsteps of the other great teams as well as father time getting ready to pass the lakeshow by..Kobe knows,jerry knows,mitch knows?,and most fans know.. I'm not so sure that Jimbo,and fisher knows though..lol

----VI Lakerfan---

This is a test of my new FaceBook account for first name Laker and lastname Tom.

The last thing the owners want to do is to implement a draconian hard salary cap that would force teams to cut players. They’re smart enough to realize that doing that could cause more ill will with their paying customers than a lockout. Nothing in the new CBA is going to break teams up. That would be contrary to everything we’re seeing right now, which is the owners and players really trying to avoid a lockout, especially with the NFL looking like it will successfully do the same.

What the owners are trying to do is get a hard cap installed to limit the current problem from getting out of hand down the road. If they can get the players to buy into a hard cap, the trade off would be that the cap would be set at $95M or $100M to start with so existing teams would not have to be broken up. It’s actually an inspired tactic by the owners to sell a hard cap for the future.
......................
TOM

Just a note for those worried about security and sign in. Just create a new email address anywhere. Then create a FaceBook account with your blog handle as your name: first name LAKER, last name TOM. Very simple. Very easy. Very secure. It’s obvious that FaceBook is the future of sign ins.
...........................................................
TOM

Amick - "The 76ers are continuing to explore trade options for Andre Iguodala, and league sources said that a deal with the Lakers involving Lamar Odom has been discussed recently. The deal would have to include another Lakers player in order to work under salary-cap rules. One of the sources said the Lakers might include small forward Ron Artest,"

---

Umm. Just say no -- PLEASE?

If Pau just had the worst postseason of his life, Iguodala makes a habit of them.

Iguodala (6-6): 22 x playoff games, 14.5 PER (regseason 17.1), .047/WS/48 (regseason .123), 42%/FG% (regseason 46%), 29%/3PT% ( regseason 32%).

Odom (6-10): 102 x playoff games, 16.7 PER (regseason 17.1), .122/WS/48 (regseason .120), 48%/FG% (regseason 47%), 30%/3PT% (regseason 32%).

And LAL would have to add Artest for THAT?

Lemme guess. "League sources" = Ed Stefanski & Doug Collins.

Plus, it's not as if LAL realizes any cap relief. Iguodala has 3 x yrs remaining on his current deal($12m per); Odom($8m) 2, Artest($6m) 3.

Good post VI Lakerfan, we get attached to our guys, hate to see trades happen involving certain players but father time never stops marching forward...

- - -

Chris Broussard talking Lakers on Sportscenter.

He says Lakers never shopped Pau.

JAMF: Warning, you may want to skip this paragraph... lol
He says they are actively shopping L.O. They are targeting a speedy point guard. Says they (Lakers) understand they have to give quality up in order to get quality. He says don't look for the L.O. for Iguodala trade to happen.

He says Monta Ellis wants to come to the Lakers (!!!) but Golden State wants more than L.O. to get a deal done.

He says Jonny Flynn, Ramon Sessions, Aaron Brooks are all available point guards the Lakers might target.

He also says Cleveland is looking to acquire a third lottery pick (?!), possibly might try to move up to #2 by packaging the #4+.

Interesting stuff. If Monta Ellis wants to be a Laker, we gotta find a way to get that done. He is a proven, elite scorer and would be a nice combo alongside Kobe. He's not a point guard, but maybe they could utilize him and Kobe to share the duties.

They could also move Kobe to the 3 if they brought in a point guard, at 6'6'' Kobe could hang with bigger guys, maybe even save some wear and tear from chasing speedy guards around. That might also provide him more spots to post up. I saw a stat earlier in the season that Kobe has the best stats in the NBA on iso post ups.

Oh yeah, Kobe's so much worse than MJ. Sorry, couldn't resist...


AS ALWAYS - AND FOREVER - GO LAKERS!!!!!!

LOL cyber!!! Thanks for the warning!!!

I'm surprised nothing's come down the pike yet....the draft is what? 7 hours away? Strange....

LakerTom: "Just a note for those worried about security and sign in. Just create a new email address anywhere. Then create a FaceBook account with your blog handle as your name: first name LAKER, last name TOM. Very simple. Very easy. Very secure. It’s obvious that FaceBook is the future of sign ins."
-
That's good advice. Even youtube abandoned their old login system and now go with google. Everything is going to need facebook, google or yahoo! soon enough.

Anyone wants to add me as a friend, I'll add them back. Would be cool to get a bunch of us blogsters on facebook. I bet facebook will be wondering how come so many people have Laker as a first or last name... lol

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1604778826


AS ALWAYS - AND FOREVER - GO LAKERS!!!!!!

Justanothermambafan,


you wrote: LTLF - agreed - it's crazy! I just think losing LO on this team is a big mistake. He does so many things on this team that I think can't be quantified in dollars. I get that it's a business, but I don't understand the thinking of trading big pieces of a championship core for unproven players. Not when you've got a healthy Kobe Bryant who wants and needs to win NOW.

Posted by: Justanother Mambafan | June 23, 2011 at 09:18 AM


my response: re: trading big pieces of a championship core. Actually, this is
not a championship core. This is the core of a team that won the
championship two years ago.

What's the difference? We couldn't get it done this year? Why is that a
problem? Because it begs the question, "Will we be able to get it done
next season?"

Why is there doubt? Because of the way we lost. The closest analogy to
our season would be "How did the Lakers do after their last 3-in-a-row
visit to the finals?" Answer: It took ~ 4 years and almost a whole new
squad to get us back to the finals.

I keep coming back to "How are we going to run w/ Chicago, Miami, & OKC?"

or "How are we going to stop the shooting of Dallas?"

JAMF: Yeah, it's weird that no trades have happened yet, looks like a bunch of teams are looking to make moves. Maybe they are waiting for the draft? Maybe they just aren't pulling the trigger on moves because of the lockout looming ahead.

I'm starting to get a real feeling the Lakers will pull the trigger on a trade before the draft is done. Either moving to get a high draft pick or getting in on one of these deals for a point guard.

Oh well, it should be a funner draft than usual. We got four picks this time, even though they are late. We usually only have one or two maybe someone falls to the cracks. Like Tokyo's version of Kobe:
http://www.tokyoapache.com/wp-content/gallery/8-jeremy-tyler/img_2793-1.jpg

LOVE those uni's!!! That team has some impeccable taste!!! lol...


AS ALWAYS - AND FOREVER - GO LAKERS!!!!!!

I love love love signing in to this blog. It's so easy shmeasy it's to die for.

Forget about Iguodala, ellis, #2, Love, etc...Give me Ray Felton. That's all we need

Heya hobbit!!

This is still a championship core IMO. I can see them "tweaking" the roster, but wholesale change just doesn't make sense. I think this current mess was brought on by lack of execution moreso than lack of talent. To basically gut the team to address our need for a PG or outside shooter will only open up another can of worms. I don't know, hobbit - I'm just sitting here waiting...and wondering.... like everyone else LOL!!

BTW - I answered your questions about the RC and gave you the link in another post. Don't know if you saw it...


Cyber - Nice uni's - I sure do miss them....sigh....

CYBER- Thanks for the Chris Broussard post....


I agree Monte is a proven elite scorer; and talent like his cannot be passed on.

Here are his numbers from last season:

24.1 PPG, 5.6 Dimes, and 3.5 Boards.

This was playing 40 min. a game, and shooting 45% from the field, and 36% from beyond....

At 6'3 Monte could be considered a combo guard, but he puts up a great number of shots, and scores in bunches...with Curry running PG, The Warriors used Monte at the 2.....

A couple of issues:

(1) What should the Lakers be willing to give up to get Monte?

(2) Can Monte and Kobe co-exist? Both ball dominate, high volume shooters...

(3) Will a backcourt of Monte and Kobe be able to take over PG duties?

While I think the Lakers could benefit from a pass first, pure PG, when a talent like Monte expresses interest in becoming a Laker you can't ignore it....

Trading Lamar Odom would be a huge mistake on so many levels. Odom is an elite player to say the least. In my opinion, he was actually under used by Phil Jackson. Phil used Lamar to cover up for a very weak Laker bench. Lamar is better as a starter. Imagine Lamar Odom manning the small forward position. He gives the lakers another scorer on the floor besides Kobe. Offensively, Pau was supposed to be second option but sometimes he just doesn't show up. He is always a defensive casualty. If there was any one player to blame for us not getting pass Dallas, I would put most of it on Pau Gasol. Ron Artest is a good defender most of the time, but struggles against smaller faster players. He is often lost in transition defense (slow to get up and down the floor). He is the Lakers biggest offensive casualty. The worst offensive player on the starting line up. As a starter, Lamar Odom would give the Lakers another ball handler, a better passer, a better rebounder, and is faster than Artest up and down the floor. The Lakers can make themselves much better just by starting Lamar Odom. We have needed a much faster point guard for so long, like yesterday. However, I think that the Lakers should focus their collective efforts on getting Howard. It goes without saying, its much easier to find a good small player than good big player. Getting Howard at this stage of his career would be like getting Shaq. Besides, I believe Pau Gasol's poor play was not just a burp in his career. I more or less believe that other teams know learned Gasol's weaknesses and how to exploit them. He is not going to get any better. His play in the playoffs was very much like that of the championship series against Boston, when he earn the nickname Gasoft. Lakers need to get rid of this guy while he still has high trade value. Image a front court of Bynum at Center, Howard at Power Forward, and Lamar Odom at Small Forward. The opposing team would have to deal with three seven footers that are cat quick and can run the floor. The Lakers would instantly become the best rebounding and shot blocking team in the league. I am told that the Lakers are looking at a trade for Monta Ellis. I am suggesting that they trade Shannon Brown, Steve Blake and Dereck Fisher for Monta Ellis or Chris Paul (I prefer Chris Paul, but think he would be too hard to get). This lineup would not require Kobe to be the team savior every night. We have the choice of pounding the ball inside to Howard or Bynum, because there is no way that any team would be able to double team either one of them. Lamar Odom would be the offensive X-factor. Monta Ellis would be that hybrid Point/Shooting Guard the way that Russell Westbrook is with the Thunder. The only down side to this roster is that the Lakers would have to use a bench of nothing but league journeyman that can be signed for one year league minimum salaries.


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