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Interpreting fan sentiment regarding whether they prefer Andrew Bynum or Carmelo Anthony

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The headline across the L.A. Times' sports page sums it all up: "Don't count on Carmelo Anthony coming to Lakers"

Click on the link and you will come across a report from The Times' Mike Bresnahan and Broderick Turnerthat explains the Lakers don't want to trade center Andrew Bynum to the Denver Nuggets for forward Anthony, refuting an ESPN report that said the teams were in preliminary talks.

That's not going to silence the chatter, no matter how much it appears a Bynum-Melo deal won't happen, something that's also echoed by The New York Daily News' Frank Isola. Readers of The Times' Lakers blog spent all day analyzing what would happen should the Lakers trade Bynum, debated with fans via live chat on what the Lakers should do and even voted in a few polls that capture fan sentiments.

A poll in The Times' Fabulous Forum indicated that 74.16% of fans believe the Lakers should make the deal, and a poll in the latest live chat shows that 69% of voters want Melo on the Lakers in place of Bynum. The results struck me for several reasons. As many times as fans have expressed frustration over the team's play in the comment threads, few sentiments share a sense of uncertainty regarding the team's future. The poll results seem to suggest otherwise. As many times as the fans contributed to this trade discussion, most of the actual comments provided specific reasons why the Lakers should hold onto Bynum and avoid being part of the Melo-drama. There seems to be a silent majority.

With the help of at least a few commentators, below are a few reasons why the support for Melo appears stronger than that for Bynum.

1. Anthony pairing up with Kobe Bryant would actually be a good thing. There's an understandable concern that pairing the Black Mamba with Melo would bring  inevitable friction. They're both NBA superstars. They're both scorers. And they both cut corners on defense. In other words, the reason why the two admire each other's game so much is that they have the same basketball mentality. Melo isn't near Bryant in terms of championships, but the ability to score on a dime is still there. But how do you replicate that when there's only one basketball? How does the team maintain that balance that it always strives for with Bryant's aggressive scoring and facilitating, Pau Gasol's post presence, Lamar Odom's versatility and, on the best days, some actual outside shooting from Ron Artest and Derek Fisher?

But to some, Melo's similar mind-set in scoring may be just what the Lakers need. "i feel carmelo is a scorer something kobe needs right now," all out wrote. "gasol isnt doin as well this year i feel carmelo to la is what im hoping for."

It could work because the two have a close friendship that goes back to the 2008 Beijing Olympics, with Melo and Bryantsaying on separate occasions that they felt jovial around each other and taught each other their moves. Melo would want to fit in with whatever fits in with the Lakers so that Bryant earns another ring. Bryant, who's admitted Melo's unhappiness with Denver reminds him of his earlier discontent with the Lakers, would also feel inclined to help Anthony fit right in, knowing how hungry he is to finally win a championship and that ensuring Melo maintains his scoring rate would ease the burden on Bryant's body. As much concern as there is about Anthony's possibly changing the team's identity, experiencing a learning curve and disrupting chemistry, the Lakers and their fans want stars. Forget worrying about the team concept because it will revolve around the team's best players.

2. Patience for Bynum has run out. Just when it appeared Bynum had returned to the good graces of Lakers fans (or at least enough that any topic involving Bynum doesn't just lead to an endless argument) after the Lakers won the 2010 NBA title, Bynum expended that capital by delaying off-season surgery on his right knee so he could attend the World Cup. I defended Bynum's decision at the time because the delay amounted more to a collective miscalculation by the organization than an indictment of his hunger level. No matter which side you're on with this issue, however, there's one indisputable truth. Bynum's delayed surgery has largely contributed to the Lakers' inconsistency this season.

It's not fair to pin this all on Bynum, but his 24-game absence provided a trickle effect that proved hard for the Lakers to overcome. First, the heavy mileage on  Gasol caught up to him and left him fatigued and ineffective. As soon as that happened, the Lakers lost the consistency in the post, putting the responsibility on others to providethat production. With the Lakers' outside shooting proving largely undependable, most of the offense revolved around Bryant leading the team at will and Odom posting a consistently reliable double-double. With the offensive chemistry floundering, Gasol gassed and the Lakers lacking Bynum's length inside, the team's defense in turn became unreliable as well. 

Bynum's return has helped solidify the team's defensive rotations, particularly with the new defensive scheme that's emphasized him staying close to the basket to shut off drivers in the lane. But his  conditioning is nowhere near where Lakers Coach Phil Jackson wants it to be, and minor issues such as a bruised left knee that sidelined last week for one game add further worries that the only reliable Vegas line involving Bynum involves when he'll get injured. With ESPN The Magazine's Ric Bucher recently tweeting that Orlando Center Dwight Howard has his "eye on Lakers don't win Magic in next 2 years," the Lakers could easily return to that post-oriented team while also finding a baton holder in Melo for when Bryant is ready to hand over the reins.

"Bynum is too often injured and his production isnt there like it was back in 08 when he started to dominate," adam wrote. "I also dont like the kids outside activities away from basketball. Playboy parties, getting high speed tickets, all while he is suppossed to be nurturing his knee and getting back into game shape. Melo would certainly qualify as new blood as Magic stated. I dont buy this refuted report one bit when Kupchack and Magic have been saying, a trade is necessary. When all the teams ahead of you own you, you need to do something. If the deal can be worked to get Nene as well in exchange for a few minor pieces since Denver is clearly looking to dump salary, then the FO would have to be idiots to not do this deal. It gives the team incentive to play again and show what true champs are made of!" 

3. Lakers fans just love trade talk. Besides salivating over NBA championships, there's one thing Lakers fans love to do: complain. They complain if they're losing. If they're winning, they complain about individual performances. If everyone's playing well, they complain about other teams. And if the Lakers are simply coming off a championship season, they're complaining during the off-season that the season hasn't started yet. 

Based on my experience reading and moderating comments over the year, however, I think the media overstates the overreaction among Lakers fans, whether it's the belief that their team is the greatest after they win or the worst after they lose. There's no doubt many of the fans express confidence in the Lakers' collecting championship after championship and are upset over a string of bad performances. But the wide range in comments after a win or a loss shows a healthy nuance of paying attention both to the ebbs and flows of the season and maintaining a big-picture perspective. If anything, an exercise like today really just shows that Lakers fans like to complain just because they can and not because they're overly worried about the state of the franchise. Sizing up trade scenarios is fun, and if it involves furthering the discussion on a report the Lakers immediately refuted, who cares? There's nothing else to talk about when the Lakers have  the day off.

--Mark Medina

Twitter.com/latmedina

E-mail the Lakers blog at mgmedin@gmail.com

Photo: Kobe Bryant, left, and Carmelo Anthony have their game faces on during the Lakers-Nuggets playoff series in April 2008. Credit: Wally Skalij / Los Angeles Times.

 
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We Want Melo!!!

@Mitch, Buss, and Kobe, (the real power broker)

Do everything in your power to get Melo-Man!

Trade everyone not named Kobe, Pauli, or Lamar.

We will play four against five if we Must!

Melo DOminate Player Now!!!

Bumin, never been dominate his future is as uncertain as Ming's and Oden's!!!


Make the Trade, Now!!!!!!!,

Yes, we love trade talk. That's also why the Trade Machine is so popular! http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine

Look, its a Bynum Tom vs PracticeSeason888 fight! Grab your popcorn and sodas people! This one should be epic!!

Thanks
PSP Intern [ served 100 coffees today :-( ]

Posted by: Practice Season Police | February 08, 2011 at 04:23 PM

Dude...No contest, my money is on the SPIN MASTER.

Posted by: G.Money | February 08, 2011 at 05:51 PM

====================

Which ones 888

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yjfoOn0zgM&oref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fresults%3Fsearch_query%3Dtwo%2Bold%2Bguys%2Bfight%26aq%3Df&has_verified=1

At least you could edit those fans' quotes MM lol.

LA - Lol I gotta keep the original words. Well that was a fun today. But in reality, this isn't going to happen lol

MM, that was a bold article to write. I like your style!

MM

I loved it! This could have been your finest piece because this isn't just unbiased journalism. You speak the truth of your general observations of Lakers fans, although I think the "big-picture perspective" to which you refer does not apply to a very high percentage of Lakers fans, whether in this forum or elsewhere. The more prevalent perspective is that you can only judge the team by the way it is playing and the past is the past. Otherwise, the polling might have been reversed considering the accomplishments of the Lakers over the past three seasons and a roster whose core has bonded, is championship tested and championship proven. I could be wrong about that because I don't monitor the blog as you do, but I do get a general flavor in here and I read opinions in other forums. Anyway, I really enjoyed this one!

Hollinger went where I wouldn't... he speculated on some possible 3-team deals:

http://tinyurl.com/4fpkz9d (no it's not a Rickroll)

Some of his ideas:

Lakers send Bynum, Artest, and a chunk of trade exception to Denver
Lakers send Derek Fisher and (you'll love this) Luke Walton to Toronto

Denver sends Carmelo, Chris Andersen, and Renaldo Balkman to the Lakers
Denver sends Kenyon Martin to Toronto

Toronto sends Reggie Evans to Denver
Toronto sends Jose Calderon, Julian Wright, and Linas Kleiza to the Lakers

For Denver, they get under the luxury tax THIS year. Toronto actually saves money - even they'd be taking on Luke's deal, they'd be sending back almost as much salary in Kleiza and MORE in Calderon.

From the Lakers perspective, they give up Bynum, Artest, Walton, and Fisher (I know those last two names going out are warming certain hearts on the blog) and they get Calderon, Carmelo, Chris Andersen, Julian Wright, Linas Kleiza, and Renaldo Balkman.

here's what the Lakers look like after the trade (I'm accounting for
duplicate roles wherever possible):

C: Pau, Birdman, Ratliff, Smith
PF: Odom, Pau, Carmelo, Balkman, Caracter
SF: Carmelo, Artest, Ebanks, Balkman, Wright
SG: Kobe, Brown
PG: Calderon, Blake

What do you think of THAT megadeal?

I think it would seriously disrupt the triangle thing, but that starting lineup would be Showtime like.


Note that I'm sure any combination of Caracter, Ebanks, or Smith could go out in this deal and it would still work. In fact, if the Lakers did the trade as Hollinger suggested, they'd have to dump at least one player.

3 straight NBA Finals appearances:


1 without Bynum = loss


2 with Bynum = championships


Hmm ...

Note -

Hollinger also suggests 3-way deals to pull Mo Williams or Kirk Hinrich to the Lakers in a similar fashion.

I've got to say, I find it completely unlikely, but somewhat appealing.

OTOH, trading away 3 starters who are intimately familiar with the system and that Kobe trusts implicitly is dangerous.

It would help if Toronto would agree to buy Fish out and let him return to the Lakers in 30 days.

I'm going to play with this theme. What the heck, I don't think the Lakers will do any dramatic trades like this, but it's fun to play with the trade machine to see how plausible a scenario you can come up with. The hard part is making a trade that's arguably good for both (or all 3) teams in some way.

If you think Bynum is under fire today, wait until the Lakers get bullied in
Boston on Thursday Night.
The fans will explode when LA gets torched by 95/78!

John Hollinger is a notorious Laker hater and would love the idea of the Lakers breaking up the team.

Looking at Hollinger's Denver-Lakers-Toronto trade, I think he's kinda on to something. (or maybe just on something).

Denver gets two quality players in Bynum and Artest. Note that BOTH will get bigger stats when they become the 2nd and 3rd options on Denver as opposed to 3rd and 6th options on the Lakers (assuming Kobe/Pau ahead of Bynum and Fisher/Odom also ahead of Artest). They get a dramatic uptick in defense. AND they get under the luxury cap threshold this season (not next season, but THIS season).

Toronto speeds up their rebuild process. What we've learned from the rebuilds of Oklahoma City and Memphis is that the quickest way to get back to relevance is to dump off any high paid players, regardless of how good they are (Ray Allen? gone. Pau Gasol? gone), and go for draft picks and young players to build around. Dumping off Kleiza, Calderon, Wright, and Evans gives them a big drop in salary next season, even taking into account Luke's boat anchor of a contract. Cash &/or draft picks could be headed their way in such a trade as well... or if they wanted one or more of Ebanks, Caracter, or Joe Smith, any of them could be thrown in to sweeten the deal.

And of course, though it puts a HUGE speedbump in the Lakers chances to threepeat, I think it improves the Lakers overall. For the next several years, they'd have a dropoff in center (Bynum to Andersen), but the increases at small forward (Melo over Artest) and point guard (Calderon over Fisher), as well as the bench improvement of Kleiza over Luke should make up for it.

The only real problem is that I'm not sure they could win a ring this season with that much change. If theyd have done it in September, no problem. But this late in the season, it's a huge shift and a lot of new people to try to teach the triangle in a very short period of time.

yikes! The mega-deal mania all around the blog today!

Well, if another rumored deal does happen (as is being hinted as possibly being still alive), I want credit for the Ron Ron to the Bobcats for Captain Jack or Gerald Wallace - called it last week - Feb. 2nd to be precise...

- - -

If we could have a crystal ball and end up with Dwight Howard coming to L.A. in 2012, well then I'd green light a 'Melo for Drew trade. Not that Drew isn't going to end up being a more dominant center in a few years - it's just because of his injury issues and the question mark they pose in the future.

Say, we do this proposed deal, and Dwight opts out and we see the Shaq scenario play out again. We could possibly end up with a lineup featuring:
Dwight Howard, Pau Gasol, Carmelo Anthony, Kobe & that girl that beat MM in one-on-one during Christmas (because it won't matter who runs the point - this team will absolutely DOMINATE!)

Jeeeeez.... Just think about his monster lineup possibilty:
Dwight
Pau
'Melo
Kobe
Fish/Blake

wow...


AS ALWAYS - AND FOREVER - GO LAKERS!!!!!!

If you think Bynum is under fire today, wait until the Lakers get bullied in
Boston on Thursday Night. The fans will explode when LA gets torched by 95/78!
Posted by: PMaz | February 08, 2011 at 07:16 PM

Yeah right. I see the Lakers winning that game. Don't care to make a prediction of the point spread because who cares! The Lakers don't need the ego boost. They are the Champs!

I will say that we go 7 and 0 or 6 and 1 on the roadie though.

Unfortunately, Hollinger's method doesn't work for trying to work out a deal to get Kirk Hinrich. Washington doesn't have many big contracts - mostly just Rashard Lewis, and his contract is too big to make work in a trade.

I'd kinda prefer Hinrich's defense over Calderon's offense.

888: "John Hollinger is a notorious Laker hater and would love the idea of the Lakers breaking up the team."

-

Yup, true that. Along with his bud Henry Abbott.

Oh, and what was that about Mo Williams? Oh yeah...

MO WILLIAMS STINKS!

LOL


AS ALWAYS - AND FOREVER - GO LAKERS!!!!!!

YES WE NEED CARMELO HIS CAN SCORE IF WE HAVE TO PLAY THE HEAT IN THE FINALS CAUSE KOBE WILL BUST DWAYNE IF THEY HAVE TO SCORE AT EACH OTHER AND CARMELO COULD SCORE WITH LEBRON AND SHANNON WILL SCORE AT EDDIE HOUSE SO PAU AND CHRIS BOSH AINT EVEN CLOSE AND LAMAR ODOM WILL HAVE A MONSTER GAME LAKERS WIN 3 IN A ROW

Braking News: I've got some reliable insider informant who told me this trade WILL happen. Sit tight Laker Nation!

melo has never played defense in his life.
last time i checked, if you wanted to win a title,
you win it with defense.

The Hollinger article is BSPN insider, let me repost it here:


Bynum for Melo.

Yep, sounds insane, and at first glance it sounds mostly like somebody -- either Carmelo Anthony's people or the Nuggets -- is blowing smoke to create leverage with other parties.

Nonetheless, it's too titillating not to discuss further. The idea of L.A. sending a core of Kobe Bryant, Melo, Lamar Odom and Pau Gasol on to the court, with any random civilian inserted at point guard, certainly is a scary proposition for opponents. And for the Nuggets, one has to concede that coming away with Andrew Bynum is vastly preferable to getting, say, Wilson Chandler and a draft pick.

Additionally, the Lakers can dramatically sweeten the deal with spare parts. By also taking on Chris Andersen using the trade exception created by dealing Sasha Vujacic to the Nets, for instance, the Lakers can help the Nuggets further clean up their cap situation and save them over $10 million in salary and luxury tax. That becomes $13 million if L.A. throws in cash, $14 million if they take back Shelden Williams too, and $17 million if they do a side deal of Renaldo Balkman for Theo Ratliff and Devin Ebanks.

Adding Andersen and Williams to the mix also allays the greatest fear of this trade for the Lakers: L.A. would be shorthanded up front, giving opponents free reign to beat Gasol senseless.

Still, some areas of concern obviously remain. The Lakers would be sacrificing their single greatest advantage -- two 7-footers who create match-up problems for opponents' frontcourts -- to add a high-volume, middling-efficiency shot taker ... a role that Bryant already fills more ably.

One could argue that Anthony is such a huge upgrade over Ron Artest that it doesn't matter that Melo is a poor fit schematically. But it's not clear how the Lakers would defend high-scoring wing players. That's a pretty important consideration when their most likely NBA Finals opponents (Boston and Miami) each own two such performers.

Remember, too, that the Lakers aren't the only team involved in these discussions, and that the logic behind this possible deal on some levels is just as shaky for Denver. Nene isn't Gasol; he's going to have trouble coexisting in the same frontcourt with Bynum because he's not a natural 4. While Nene can opt out and become a free agent after the season, presumably the Nuggets intend to keep him and feel they'll be able to -- if they don't, they should be pursuing Nene trades with just as much zeal as they've solicited offers for Melo.

Looking more deeply, even some parts that at first seem to make sense don't upon further review. Most notably, there's the notion that this deal would position the Lakers well for a post-Kobe era, because Anthony could take over the role as the main go-to guy.

That's true, but it's mostly irrelevant. This is hardly the time to be thinking about "positioning for the future." The Lakers have a window to win another championship right now, and it's not going to be open forever. Kobe's knees aren't getting any springier, and the smoke signals from Phil Jackson's teepee are that somebody else will be coaching the Lakers next year. One has to wonder if swapping Bynum for Melo only puts the Lakers further away from a three-peat goal.

Nonetheless, it's a workable kernel of a trade, and here's why. As I noted above, Bynum for Melo doesn't make a ton sense if that's the whole deal. If that's part of the deal on the other hand ... well, then we're talking. As I noted above, a two-way deal with the Lakers could save Denver a ton of money if structured correctly, while also giving the Lakers some replacement frontcourt bodies. So that's a start.

However, the really interesting part is if they add other teams to the mix.

Let's think about these teams' goals for a second. For Denver, the big idea is to get as many young assets as possible for Anthony, but a second goal is to get the team under the luxury tax this season. Denver is $14 million over the threshold at the moment, but because of the cap exceptions owned by the Lakers and other potential trade partners, it's possible to trade their way under.

And from L.A.'s side, if the Lakers got an upgrade at point guard along with Melo, then such a trade becomes a huge win for the Lakers as well ... regardless of whether Kobe and Melo get in each other's way a little bit.

Believe it or not, the framework of such a deal could work. Obviously, L.A.'s prime target as the point guard upgrade would be Chauncey Billups, but that's a pipe dream. It isn't possible to put together a realistic deal for Billups and Anthony -- the Lakers simply don't have the assets.

Jose Calderon, on the other hand, is very doable. And there's a really good three-way deal these teams could do that would land Calderon in L.A. along with Anthony; get Bynum to Denver while pulling the Nuggets all the way under the luxury tax via trade exceptions owned by the Lakers and Toronto; and save the Raptors about $16 million over the next two years by dumping the contracts of Calderon and Linas Kleiza on the Lakers. (My trade idea is here). Draft picks and cash would almost certainly be part of the conversation too.

That's one thought, but there are plenty more workable scenarios. A Cleveland deal with Mo Williams, for instance, would work roughly the same way. So would one with Washington and Kirk Hinrich, although it's made more difficult by the Wizards' lack of a large trade exception.

The big-picture idea, however, is that there probably needs to be more to the picture than just Bynum and Melo for a realistic Lakers-Nuggets trade to happen. Bynum-for-Melo is certainly the centerpiece, but as a straight one-for-one trade there's more to dislike than like for both sides.

It's the other blocks that can be built around such a deal that make it enticing. While such a swap would be dramatically more complicated, it's that possibility that has me contemplating whether there really is some fire behind this smoke.

MO WILLIAMS STINKS!

Posted by: CyberCosmiX | February 08, 2011 at 07:31 PM
====

Has his stench manifested itself this season or what?

888: "Has his stench manifested itself this season or what?"
-
LOL - ain't that the truth! That is one stench we truly don't need around downtown L.A.

But, how kind of Hollinger to propose the Lakers target him. I'm surprised he didn't list Kwame, Darko and Farmar as other Laker trade acquisitions... lol

- - -

chris24: "melo has never played defense in his life.
last time i checked, if you wanted to win a title,
you win it with defense."
-
That is true, but has he really ever played for a coach that stressed defense? OK, well, outside of the months he spent under Michael Cooper? George Karl isn't exactly renowned for being a defensive-mentality type coach.

I'm sure that by watching Kobe and the Lakers brand of defense, getting it stressed to him under Phil, he'll be more than eager to play better D if the end result means a ring...


AS ALWAYS - AND FOREVER - GO LAKERS!!!!!!

woops, obviously the BSPN HYPE MACHINE got to me above! lol...

MM, you had me laughing so hard. Tell us how you REALLY feel about Laker fans, the ultimate complain machines. How does it feel to get it off your chest and into writing what a bunch of complainers the Laker fans are, and all the while having it disguised in a legitimate posting on the Bynum-Melo trade? I agree with KobeMVP888, this is your finest post - love it!

Get carmelo n nene or anderson but nene would deff b good
The we can have
Fisher
kobe
carmelo
gasol
nene
This would be a good line up and the lakers can 3peat we need to make it happen mitch make it appen then we will win 3 or 4 more rings before kobe retires at age 37 with melo help kobe can extend his career.

Art,
For GHF, I can't mention in the blog but u have a clue of what F means? Just kidding.
I nominate you and LRob as the MVB, (most valuable blubbermouths). haha!
Posted by: Edwin Gueco | February 08, 2011 at 04:25 PM
--------------------
Good one Edwin

it all seems that it's jimmy buss the one holding the deal with his inexplicable love for Bynum. Anyway the guy looks pretty much like a drug addict (I'm not saying he is) so who could blame him for having a strange fixation on somebody who has been in the NBA for 6 years and hasn't shown anything more than being a very good role player the few times when he's healthy. Hopefully his pet-toy doesn't get injured and becomes almost obsolete or unavailable like we're now used to.

Gasol, Odom, Melo, Kobe ....chemistry, not enough balls, too many egos...whatever people want to say, that team would be scary and possibly a once in a generation juggernaut.

Anyway who cares, better to have the part time kid because Jimmy wants to show everybody that he was right all along.

As a long time laker fan i would be surprise if this trade happen Because looking at the laker history when they normally aquire a big trade like pau it comes out of no where with it.But to have the trade broad cast in the media like this one those are the trades that don't happen.My concern is if we do trade bynum where giving up one of our bigs which leaves a huge void in the middle. I think we be giving up alot of lay ups, now what will happen then?But either way they decide to go you've got to trust the front office decision making. Because all we do is play for rings.
Go Lakers!

As a long time laker fan i would be surprise if this trade happen Because looking at the laker history when they normally aquire a big trade like pau it comes out of no where with it.But to have the trade broad cast in the media like this one those are the trades that don't happen.My concern is if we do trade bynum where giving up one of our bigs which leaves a huge void in the middle. I think we be giving up alot of lay ups, now what will happen then?But either way they decide to go you've got to trust the front office decision making. Because all we do is play for rings.
Go Lakers!

As a long time laker fan i would be surprise if this trade happen Because looking at the laker history when they normally aquire a big trade like pau it comes out of no where with it.But to have the trade broad cast in the media like this one those are the trades that don't happen.My concern is if we do trade bynum where giving up one of our bigs which leaves a huge void in the middle. I think we be giving up alot of lay ups, now what will happen then?But either way they decide to go you've got to trust the front office decision making. Because all we do is play for rings.
Go Lakers!

@LROB... Criticism acknowledged and accepted. I have never claimed to be an unbiased fan but I also believe that I generally have very valid reasons why I support and favor certain players more than others. You can dismiss it by trivializing it as my bias. I happen to consider it be my informed opinion. Here are a couple of questions your honest answers to which I would be interested to know:
.....................................................................
Question: Which players’ subpar performances do you think caused Mitch Kupchak to announce that he was not happy with the team’s play and was considering making a trade?
...
Answer: I contend that the three players who instigated the dissatisfaction that led to Mitch’s comments regarding a trade were Pau Gasol, Ron Artest, and Derek Fisher – not Andrew Bynum.
...................................................................
Question: Which trade do you think would give the Lakers a better team and better opportunity to three-peat? Kobe, Fish, Melo, Odom, and BYNUM or Kobe, Fish, Memo, Odom, and GASOL?”
...
Answer: I contend trading Pau rather than Drew would make the Lakers a younger, tougher, less expensive, and more physical team that plays better defense and matches up better with Boston.
.....................................................................
Bottom line, putting all your money on Pau Gasol to be your starting center would be a bigger risk that betting on Andrew Bynum’s health. Do the Gasol as starting center supporters really remember what happened and how we played defense with Pau as center before Drew returned? Three good games as a power forward against favorable matchups seems to have made Pau’s ardent fans forget how he struggled and played poorly when having to match up against bigger, more physical centers. Anyway, you have your opinion and I have mine. Let’s just agree to disagree and see what happens.

Posted by: LakerTom | February 08, 2011 at 04:55 PM
--------------------------------------------------------
I’ll gladly answer your questions and then I have a few questions for you.

1. Pau and Ron Ron.
2. The Lakers are better with Pau instead of Drew.

I’m not advocating putting Pau at center remember. When the first talk of trades came out I posted that this team has won back 2 back and deserves a chance for a 3peat. In fact, I haven’t responded to many, if any, post about trades. But when you started dumping on Pau for the tough stretch he was going thru I felt obligated to defend him. The same way I defended Drew.

Have you forgot that I was the one that spent countless hours researching and pulling up articles on Tim Duncan’s injury in 2000 to prove that Drew showed toughness by playing on the same injury that Tim refused to play with.

Don’t you recall that I was one of a handful of bloggers that defended Drew’s decision --- from beginning to end --- to go to South Africa and delay his surgery. And why did I support this? Because he could’ve easily shut it down to avoid risking further damage and would’ve been well within his rights and obligations; and the Lakers would have one less championship.

Remember I was the one who invested numerous hours pulling up Grant Hill articles from 2000…when his doctors told him he could play in the playoffs without risking further injury. (Just to show what could've happened to AB.)

Yes, I’m defending Pau now, just like I defended Drew, Kobe, Ron, Luke and Fish when I felt other bloggers were being shortsighted. So I’ve been consistent. You on the other hand recently have displayed an utter lack of appreciation for Pau’s contributions. That really shocked me and motivated me to post on the subject last week. If someone else had posted it I may not have responded, but it didn’t seem right coming from you…someone who has preached patience for Drew.

I know Pau will struggle against physical centers. But if I had to choose between Pau and Drew its an easy choice for me. (This post is long enough without me going into more details).

Now I have 3 questions for you...

1. Why do you think the other coaches in the western conference voted Pau to the all-star team?

2.Why do you think Phil prefers the combo of Gasol/Odom to close games?

3. What do you know about Pau’s international accomplishments?

It's a tough call, but to get a player like Carmelo or Dwyane Wade or LeBron James doesn't come around very often, just sayin'!

@ LROB
I am loving your discussion with Laker Tom (who in my opinion is a great guy and great blogger). I have a high level of respect for you as you show great patience/tolerance combined with knowledge of the game.

I bring this up because I mentioned Hobbitmage a few days ago and why it is I appreciate him so much. In my opinion, he simply confronts what appears to be inflated views of Bynum. While I consider Bynum a high caliber piece of our championship puzzle, I also have a disdain for his instability and charcter.

The discussion you appear to be having with Laker Tom gives me the sense that Hobbit can at some point go back to enjoying the team and making peace here in the blog. If what I think is happening between you and LT is in fact happening, then I can't tell you how grateful I am for another blogger that helps keep things grounded and respectful.

Posted by: JohnnyV | February 08, 2011 at 05:06 PM
----------------------------------------

Johnny V,

Thank you.

Get carmelo n nene or anderson but nene would deff b good
The we can have
Fisher
kobe
carmelo
gasol
nene
This would be a good line up and the lakers can 3peat we need to make it happen mitch make it appen then we will win 3 or 4 more rings before kobe retires at age 37 with melo help kobe can extend his career.

Posted by: John | February 08, 2011 at 08:18 PM


Never interfaced, with you before John. While I admire you using your imagination and thinking outside the box. This is pretty much a message to all:


Obviously, we all know we live through chemistry. We have been to 3 Nba Finals in a row. We lost our first time out. We then went on to win 2 more championships. In that timespan, we re-signed Fish, traded for The Spainard. Signed Ron Artest. Traded for Shannon Brown. We lost our first time out when we didn't have Andrew Bynum at all. We won the last 2 championships, with Andrew hurt and not even close to 100%. We're so versatile, we're Big, we have a bottomless skill set at our disposal, we have an all-time closer at the helm.

Now, in the middle of it all, we want to trade Andrew, trade Ron, trade Fish. Lakers trading for Melo, is a fait accompli of Championships upon Championships. Well, like I said at the start, we all live through chemistry. If you want to dissolve the squad, roll the dice, while you have the most chips at the table. Sometimes, when you roll the dice, it comes up snakeyes. It can be like removing a pin from a grenade.

Like Kobe said, 'milk the cow'.

David, Jimmy doesn't have to show anyone he was right - because he has already been shown to BE right.

Monta Ellis (whom every team passed on and was chosen 40th), David Lee, Danny Granger and Ronny Turiaf (who must be eliminated because the Lakers chose him) are the only names worthy of mention chosen after Bynum in that draft. Oh you could throw Nate Robinson and Linas Kleiza on there, too, if you really want to scrape the bottom of the barrel.

Ellis is nice, Granger & Lee are former all-stars, but would you trade ANY of those guys for Bynum? I would tend to think, therefore, ol' Jimmy has been proven correct for that 'reach' at draft-slot 10 in picking Drew. The one year the Lakers missed the playoffs and dipped not-to-deeply into the lottery and they pull off the steal of the draft, the ace of the bunch.

David, if you think that Bynum is only a 'very good role player' - well just the fact that the Nuggets would entertain essentially a Bynum for 'Melo swap shows just how much value he has. The Nuggets aren't targeting any of those other guys chosen below Bynum in the draft - so if you look at it, Jimmy's 'pet-toy' already has shown him to be a better judge of talent than essentially all of his fellow GM's - at least the one time he was deeply involved in the Lakers draft selection.

Let's put it this way: Bynum plays in NBA Finals, the Lakers win rings. That is the bottom line, isn't it?


AS ALWAYS - AND FOREVER - GO LAKERS!!!!!!

An aside:

During the game last night, did anyone else hear Faith's voice screaming, "Free throws! Make your free throws!"

I miss Faith.

Go Lake Show!

Commentary

MM, do you know why Laker fans complain when the team is under performing? It is called passion handed down by the great Chick Hearn. You guys in the media try duplicate him i.e. both social media, print and talk show but no one is close enough to be aligned with fans sentiments. Precisely, because Chick never back stabs or spread lies in his 3,000 + broadcasts, he tells it like it is nor allow himself to bend his principles or policies because a co-commentator would like to make some gimmicks. Example: He will never allow a commercial when the ball is on play or interview an actor to interrupt his play-by-play broadcasts. Because of that fan loyalty and passion for the team, he was trusted all the way through his old ages. How many of you will last in this profession if u engage in gamesmanship, twisting, creating scenarios to gain mileage, following and rate-baiting? Aha, another clone of BSPN. Well, nobody really believe that Melo will come to LA, not with this Laker establishment but nonetheless, you saw the reactions of fans across the spectrum. They cooperated with your survey and tell it like it is. Gullible they may appear but passion is there in competing against the most hated Celtics. You may laugh today with posts- baiting in multiple threads and chats but the typical Lakers fans have the sixth sense and knew what's coming. The Golden voice is already been silenced but his memories linger on in every hearts of Laker fan.

This year is not the rebuilding year. Any trade that involves large number of players will require them to learn the Triangle in a very short period of time. Why shoot yourself in the foot now when you have a chance to threepeat? Do it after PJ retires, maybe Shaw will take over, maybe not. We don't know if Lakers will run the Triangle next year. It depends on the coach and the players we get in rebuilding for the next Championship era of the Lakers.

I would be more tempted to do the Melo/ Bynum deal if we got Nene along, but his salary is 11M and we would have to give up LO to close that, unless Denver would take Ron and Luke (don't see that happening).

Our Thursday game could be Very interesting for several reasons.

Look, its a Bynum Tom vs PracticeSeason888 fight! Grab your popcorn and sodas people! This one should be epic!!

Posted by: Practice Season Police | February 08, 2011 at 04:23 PM

-------------------------

lol

Don't trade Drew...PERIOD!!!

~

@phred: Great profile,really enjoyed reading it. Nice job!

~

@LRob:Glad you liked Karen, she is quite talented.

~

Today's musical contribution comes from one of my homeys...enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kmT0k3xcqQ

~



Let's go Ls...all the way to a 3-peat!!!!!

Edwin - I understand the passion and the debate. I thought I was actually throwing everyone here a compliment. There's such a huge misnomer out there that Laker fans just run around with their hair on fire, going through emotional highs and lows after each loss. That surely can be the case with just the passion, but the intelligence you guys have is very nuanced. Sizing up trade scenarios is one example of the passion, complaining and debating that Laker fans love.

i say later for melo but the thought of howard in a lakers uniform totally makes sense based on the history of great centers to play in LA bynum definitely doesn't fit that bill.

Howard would definitely become a well balanced monster after spending a season working out with Kareem.

Congrats to Memphis tonight. They really showed me something tonight. Going to hostile ground and getting a tough, road win on a back to back. Lionel Hollins pushing the right buttons this year.

New Orleans and Oklahoma City both lost.

Thursday's game is much bigger now, we can really separate ourselves from everybody else.

Good teams become great ones when the members trust each other enough to surrender the Me for the We.

-Phil Jackson


I say don't change horses in mid stream. Keep our core together and tinker with dumping Smith and Radcliff for a servicable center who can play and contribute. Short of getting foul prone Dwight Howard who may be able to be had in two yrs without giving up any core or trading for him next year. If we lost Radcliff, Smith, Luke, Fish retire, and signed Dwight think of this core;
C - Bynum, Howard starter, who cares,
PF - Pau, LO filler
SG - Kobe, Brown filler
SF - Artest, Ebanks filler

Whoever role players added to round out team there would be no one that could touch us.
Trade Drew ....No Way

LRob: I just want to say, despite the legions of cheerleaders on the blog cheering you on, I hope you are as willing to zealously tackle those others on the blog with which you take offense to.

LakerTom makes no bones what he feels, he doesn't sugarcoat things. He specifically says "I contend trading Pau rather than Drew would make the Lakers a younger, tougher, less expensive, and more physical team that plays better defense and matches up better with Boston." What more needs to be asked or said? That is how he feels. He follows up his argument with "Anyway, you have your opinion and I have mine. Let’s just agree to disagree and see what happens."

Seems like you are spurred on by the masses, trying to pin down Tom with your points.

Eerily reminiscent of a certain other blogger, even down the the stylistic approach you are using.

It's one thing to call-out Tom for the way you feel he is being heavy-handed in his criticism towards Pau as compared to Drew - a point you already have made. It's quite another to go overboard in your persistence to try and color him, as you are doing.

We all have brains, we don't need to be manipulated into thinking one way or another. A simple "I think you're being unfair to Pau" might have sufficed, but instead look what it's coming to...


AS ALWAYS - AND FOREVER - GO LAKERS!!!!!!

MM, my point is that you have to appreciate the highs and lows but not take advantage of those nuances. They are real sentiments without any pretenses. A stoic fan who doesn't have any opinions or emotions is no Laker fan. Because of such passion manifestations, there's a subject matter in the blog. I just hope the subject of complain, praise and disdain are not cultivated or exploited for someone's gain. I'm just saying, trust goes both ways, if you want your customers trust you then you have to trust their expression of sentiments too.

damn! who would i prefer??????? of course, MELO baby!!!!!!! what i am gonna do with bynum???? i already have PAU and LO in the front court and i have back up center like RATLIFF! we need some scoring load baby! KOBE AND MELO???? THEY CAN ALREADY MATCH the east trio LJ,Wade, Bosh! I PREFER MELO???? THAT WOULD HAVE LEAD THEM TO their third straight championship!

Edwin - No I gotcha. I don't see complaining as a negative connotation. My point is no matter what happens in the season, Laker fans will always analyze something. I personally think it's good never to be satisfied. I'm never satisfied with my work. It's what drives me to get better. And I'm glad there's readers like you that hold me to that standard. My point is that I don't think Laker fans are reactionary as they are that they critique every facet of the team. This whole thing today was not to exploit anyone. It was to take a story that inaccurate or not would serve as a good discussion point on what would trading Bynum actually do to the team. Because there was so much conversation I had a live chat up all day so people pop in and out. The poll results also struck me.


It's not happening..The lakers aren't stupid.

No trade.

What do we play for? RINGS!!!

Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.

GO LAKERS!!!

zen: I thought you were going to say It's not happening because Jon K says it isn't. lol...

I'm with 888, this is more posturing by Denver to extort -errrr- pressure a better trade from the Knicks. Maybe though, the Lakers could stay in the mix, perhaps to join in a multi-team trade if he does go to NYC. Maybe they could pick up a couple of 'scraps' like, say, Chauncey Billups or even a Ty Lawson.

Tim Legler said a few minutes ago on NBA Tonight that the Knicks just don't have enough appealing pieces for the Nuggets, bottom line. That is why Denver is seriously considering trading for 'Melo for Bynum - they wouldn't be getting nearly as good a talent from the Knicks.


AS ALWAYS - AND FOREVER - GO LAKERS!!!!!!

Time for a reality check, last time the Lakers traded a 'big' for a 'small' it worked out pretty well. We traded Vlade Divac for an unknown highschool player. I don't think anyone would argue with the results.

All I worry about is our defense. If we trade Bynum AND Artest we are certainly going backwards. Melo is allergic to defense. You better hope Barnes gets healthy fast. The deal would have to be expanded to get us a usable center AND a real point guard.

For years I have promoted Kirk Hinrich. He is just what we need. Washington would move him. Now a physical center is alot harded to find. The best options might be Brad Miller in Houston or (don't laugh) Kwame Brown. At least Brown hasw been exposed to the triangle. Miller is smart and could pick it up quickly.

Now personally I prefer to just tweak the line up with the addition of a 'real' point guard either Hinrich or O.J. Mayo. But if this is what is needed to get the most out of the next two years of Kobe and Gasol than we had better not let the chance slip away. Just our luck, Bynum will get injured again Thursday and then no one will want him and his huge salary. What say you?

Bunch of complainers!

As for this trade, I'd only say this: The Glove and the mailman didn't mix.

bynum for Melo is a must!!! bynum will never be better than he already is... We must pull the trigger before his value goes down... Get nene or anderson in there because their energy is always high... I've watch bynum since he got into the league and i can tell by his swagger that he is not meant to be on the bball court... never tries hard and has poor work ethic.. Make the TRADE!!!

I really want to hear 'Melo come out and SAY he'd like to be trade it to the Lakers. He do that, then we're in business!

- - -

Reality Check Time: I agree that Hinrich is a nice, heady, defensive PG, but what would we do with Fish or Blake? Trade one for Hinrich?It would obviously have to be Blake, but would they take back his deal in return? Hinrich makes a bloated $17-mill over the next two seasons, Blake has 3 years left after this one at $4-mill/per. I can't see that happening, he woulda been a nice free-agent acquisition this past offseason, but the Lakers were no where near going to match what he was offered in Washington (who had been eyeing him for a while now).

OJ Mayo has a more realistic $10-mill salary over the next two years and he's someone I brought up last week as a possible trade option. A Mayo-for-Steve-Blake trade would work salary-wise, but the Lakers aren't going to have only Fish at PG so I can't see them doing that.

But, a better scenario is if the Grizz would be willing to take Luke for him. Would they do it? Perhaps, it seems they have been shopping him for most of the season, moving him out of the starting lineup and all. Salary-wise, it could work. They have fairly similar salary numbers per year, except the Luke contract is over three years (about $5.5-mill/season).

It wouldn't be 'Melo, but if we could add a scorer like Mayo for Luke, why not do it and try to spur things on without giving up any 'major' pieces?


AS ALWAYS - AND FOREVER - GO LAKERS!!!!!!

Mr CyberCosmix

Police here. LRob is one of the most unbiased posters on this blog. The man (or woman?) does not take sides; if you care to dig through the archives a bit, you will see that he has even defended Bynum when some peeps were unfairly putting him down.

If you had been following the argument (ahem discussion excuse the PSP) between them, you would see the point LRob has been trying to make. Seems like you have a habit of jumping into conversations that have been going on for a while and creating an opinion based on the latest post you see.

The PSP is issuing you a warning this time. Next time it will be a citation for parking in handicap zone. Very expensive!!

Thanks
PSP Officer

Time for a reality check, last time the Lakers traded a 'big' for a 'small' it worked out pretty well. We traded Vlade Divac for an unknown highschool player. I don't think anyone would argue with the results.

Posted by: Reality Check Time | February 08, 2011 at 10:10 PM
=====

Good point. Fortunately Jerry West was able to replace Vlade with a serviceable center named Shaquille O'Neal that summer, too. Does this mean that if we get 'Melo, Superman II is a lock? hmmm

Cyber,

I hear you, but disagree. If LakerTom feels I’m being heavy handed or went overboard I’m sure he’ll tell me. I simply offered a reminder that I’ve been one of Drew’s biggest supporters. I believe LT and I have a healthy respect for each other opinion. This dialogue is not going to change that for me (and I doubt if it’ll change it for him).


Furthermore, I’m intelligent enough to carry on a discussion “without being egged on”. And if you truly feel this is being disrespectful to LakerTom why would you want me to “take on others on the blog” in a similar fashion?

CCX

See, you take LRob out his comfort zone and all hell breaks loose!

The trade machine has been fun to play with today. The challenge is not including Artest (since the reports said Denver has no interest in Ron-Ron). It would also be great to trade Blake for Lawson since Steve doesn't look to be the point guard of the future; but he's more effective at half the price so that doesn't appear to be in the cards. The trade that makes the most sense was Bynum and Barnes for Anthony and Andersen. It gives the Nuggets a starter caliber small forward at a discounted price and gives the Lakers a quality back up center so Pau doesn't have to over extend himself. Throw in the $5 million exception the Lakers have for trading Sasha and you've accomplished the Nuggets goal of shedding dollars while giving the Lakers the backup big man they need. They won't get a better offer from the Knicks.

Not going to get into the Drew for Melo debate exactly, but I'm not sure that Jim Buss really has THAT much final say if everyone else in the FO, and Phil, and Kobe were against him. Project or no project. (At least from all the people I know who know Lakers organization.)

But...

...even besides that, if he DID have that kind of say, I'd be somewhat hesitant on certain judgements by my own interaction with Jim.

I used to play poker with Jim. Super-nice guy, but only a so-so poker player. The two ways to shut him down were a.) To go strong with a bluff early, really torch him while his hand was developing, and he'd fold. b.) He tended to back good but not great hands WAY too much, and if one sandbagged him, let him develop the pot, he'd stay in WAY over his head with that good but not great hand.

Just saying, if the judgement shoe fits....

Give up Bynum!!!!!!!!!!!! Who would be the defensive guy who alters all those easy layups? Melo is good offensively but can he ALTER easy layups???? His defense is VERY QUESTIONABLE. DEFENSE WINS!!!!!! BYNUM'S DEFENSE IS TOO CRUCIAL FOR THE LAKERS DURING THE PLAYOFFS WHEN SIZE COUNTS!!!!!! IT'S NOT A HORRIBLE TRADE JUST A DUMB ONE. This will never happen because Denver would rather give him to an eastern conference team, also the Nuggets would finally have a true post player who would demand double teams. Bynum is very underrated, and this heist of him by Denver would even out the play field for the other teams in the west.
I honestly believe that the Lakers would be a more exiting team to watch during the regular season, but in a best of 7 series, size always wins due to the PSYCHOLOGY of facing the same SIZE, game after game after game after game!!!!!!!!!!
It's ingrained in our genes to be afraid of size and you can only ignore it for so long, and that is why size is a huge psychological advantage when facing the same team. It gets in your head eventually. Go ahead and trade Bynum, but what will Melo do to Perkins, O'neal and Big Baby. Go ahead and do the dumbest trade imaginable for when the Celtics go to the finals again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
SIZE COUNTS IN THE PLAYOFFSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NUFF SAID.

@Butler

Bunch of complainers!

As for this trade, I'd only say this: The Glove and the mailman didn't mix.

Posted by: BUTLER | February 08, 2011 at 10:18 PM
=======


Here is my analysis of the situation thus far. We can talk for days about why not having Bynum inside against good teams will be a bad thing but what about what Melo could bring us. The last time Kobe had a good wing-man was Trevor Ariza! And we blew the Celtics out of the court, swept the Spurs, and T.A. was on a contract year! The last time the Lakers had talent, were plagued with injuries and went to the Finals was in 2003-2004 they barely scratched a win against the young, efficient Detroit Pistons and the Glove had realistically 4 more years at most (3 when he won it in Miami) and the Mailman, who had calcium deposits in his ankle. The Lakers also have the advantage of being knowledgeable and tested enough that they can allow for mid-season tweaks that can be formidable and carry into the postseason, and we have Kobe, and Phil, and Fisher, and Artest.. Gasol inside the smart C-forward. Melo is also 26 years old, yes I said 26 years old, a sound scorer and relentless competitor, much like Artest last year and Gasol before that he will also sacrifice ball touches to win, if not at least he should (because he probably won't get many chances again during his career). He has edge and is pretty mobile. Wing-man, 1a to Kobe's 1 in outside shooting. In other words taking load off Kobe, prolonging his career, also under reported is the fact he is only 3 years older than Bynum, isn't brittle and his lack of defense will be offset by his body of work by not missing games, despite the fact that Bynum has been an important part of our 2-peat, it wouldn't have been possible without a total sacrifice from players such as Artest (tip in game 6 vs Phoenix), or Gasol (tip-in game vs Thunder). Lesson learned, we need to get faster during the playoffs, and seeing this year, better outside shooting. And forget the fact we are a bit thin inside, eventhough the Lakers are not significantly all that better with Bynum this year, if it comes down to a scoring duel, I don't think we are strong enough in outside shooting to win let alone block inside. Yes I think Bynum has been great, and whether the Lakers still have Bynum inside or not, if we don't get HCA this year, I have serious doubts the Lakers will be strong enough mentally to will themselves, again, a year older, vs better younger, faster players come playoffs, to beat these teams, we learned this playing Phoenix and Thunder last year.. and for all purposes game 6-7 when Perkins was out. Bynum was a non-factor for most of the Celtics series, and a no-show against the Magic.

One important point nobody has pointed out until now, is the sad fact that we have relied on Derek Fisher's epic post season performance, and I don'
and given that he has had career lows this year, and less efficient I wouldn't expect to do it again in waves this post-season. This is a serious concern for me. We are not strong scoring. Kobe even had to try to shoot ourselves to wins, debatable whether he should have or not, but it's circumstance. It is simple, come playoffs it is important to defend, but if we don't run our game, the truth of the matter is we won't even be able to run with these teams. We have seen this against the Celtoids and Heat. We just haven't, and right now we have a 1:100 shot of landing somebody to help us, since we dont have any more assets to trade for somebody like a Kirk Hinrich. Again Bynum a semi-important factor for HCA, but we won't get it this year, and won't be able to rely on it. Bynum is a mental player. So right now we have a perfect scenario of not only having the right asset, but the unique possibility of transitioning and building for the future (I think that even if we don't win it this year, we are at least set for the next 5-6 years) and getting a top 5 guy at that. Kobe is older and while the Lakers are talented enough to win it all again, even while Bynum is the youngest guy in our rotation, we barely get enough of him to warrant keeping him. Bynum didn't get off-season surgery soon enough to help us tack on wins early on, and consequently are looking at 7+ games behind no.1 spot. Bynum lacks focus, and leadership to lead the youngsters, Ebanks, and Caracter. We also do not have the luxury of standing pat, rolling the dice, and waiting for Bynum to develop in time to hold court come playoffs. We don't know if he will be that important, so we have to be open to the fact he will be injured again, and we again will get to the playoffs without him. With Melo at least you know you get a guy worthy of his salary, and the risk in tweaking the team strategies and starting roster is low, because of the experience overall of the team. We also do not have the time to wait around for tall, clutch scorers to come around, and they don't come around. We should not wait until the summer to trade for this talented player because he might not be in the market, he will be wearing a NY Knicks jersey, and it might be too late.

It is a toss up, a hard decision, but I think we should just go with it I think Melo and Kobe would have a lot of chemistry together, Melo in a Lakers uniform would prolong Kobe's career so this is why Melo should be a no-brainer. Gasol and the Lakers have proven they can win without Bynum in the interior. We have done this time and time again with Gasol getting 30-40 mins a night, in large part because of Bynum not defending the paint when we need him to. We can't have our cake and eat it too, we want to run the triangle, defend the post etc, wanted Bynum to be the next big-thing, the next Kareem, or Dwight but it hasn't panned out, and we haven't suffered significantly since the Black Mamba has been paired with Gasol, (didn't pan out having Kobe-Bynum, Kobe likes to have wing-men). As long as the Lakers have the Gasollini and the Black Mamba I seriously doubt, moving Bynum, who has been decent-to-'ok' or acceptable as a center for Mr Anthony, would hurt us either in the long or short run to be honest with you. I think our deficiencies and losses against good teams this year are due to lack of focus, and energy but that was the time for Bynum to shine, to outfight, outrebound, outbox to get us wins, and I am not convinced he has carried the load for Gasol. Also if you remember when Bynum was out the first month of the season, because he chose not to get surgery, Gasol was playing at hall-of-fame type levels, he hasn't played any better. When we had both we couldn't score. The Lakers should have less of a problem adjusting with somebody like Melo because he is a wing-player and wing-players are easier to adjust in the triangle. Melo is also very smart, and works well without the ball. Either way we can dominate a Garnett-Melo matchup in the paint because Garnett wouldn't be able to back him down since Melo will be able to keep up with his speed. Gasol has been less willing to stay with his equals. Melo is a slasher, he would fit in perfectly, remember Trevor Ariza? If anything our prowess offensively will offset any defensive slowdowns.

To conclude, Melo is a rebounder and more of a thug than Bynum so I think it will rub off on others like Blake, and Gasol which will prove to be a nice trade, in my honest opinion. Aka more wins, and the all-important HCA in the semi-finals.

Melo for Bynum is CRAZY talk. We'd being giving up post presence, field goal percentage, size, intimidation, DEFENSE and a host of intangibles for a prolific scorer who plays NO DEFENSE! This is crazy talk. HARD WORK, MUSCLE, and HEART wins CHAMPIONSHIPS. Not Melo!

Our only problem this year is the BABY-SOFT play of GASOL, the wandering soul of ARTEST, and the abuse opposing point guards inflict on FISHER. These are the Lakers most glaring LIABILITY'S.

GASOL and ARTEST/FISHER for:

Melo and NENE
Deng and NOAH
ALDRIDGE and Mathews
SMITH, HORFORD, Crawford
LOPEZ, Favors, and HARRIS
GRANGER and Foster/Collison
WEST and Ariza
BOGUT, MOUTE, Maggette

63: Some deep insight into Jimmy Buss there. Poker is one game in which you can read a lot into, gauge someone by. Father Jerry is a pretty damn good poker player (my father sat at quite a few tables as he did at Bicycle Casino/Hollywood Park over the years and said he was an excellent player). Jimmy? If he doesn't possess Dr. Buss' instincts, well it makes me wonder about him, how successful an owner he'll be one day down the line. I'm being serious here.

- - -

LRob: The gusto you are displaying in chasing LakerTom is a lot like watching hounds chase down a fox. In this case, LakerTom already tried to put the issue to bed by saying 'we can agree to disagree'. I'm just saying.

Next time someone starts with the 'Gassy' stuff, I sure hope you relish going to go after them as hard as you're going after Tom.

- - -

If the notorious Practice Season Police is hot on my heels, I guess I must be doing something right, no? I'm just glad the tables have turned, much like pro wrestling: today's hero is tomorrow's baddy.

I'm ready to rock some rims, Blake Griffin outlaw style! Hey, Jimmy Goldstein, could I borrow that vest and snake-skin hat sometime?


AS ALWAYS - AND FOREVER - GO LAKERS!!!!!!

as far as i'm STILL concerned all this BOGUS BSPN HYPE has been based on nothing more than speculative LEAGUE SOURCES... when BSPN writers say information obtained from LEAGUE SOURCES who in specific are they referring to??? a friend of a friend of a league executive?? why is it these sources are hardly ever confirmed... would anyone care to share?? NO??.. is it perhaps because we'll NEVER know who these SUPPOSED LEAGUE SOURCES may be??? HMMMM... MM... would you care to enlighten us???

has BSPN has taken FALSE JOURNALISM to a whole new level?? is there really any more integrity behind their work??? .... in todays frenetically fast paced newsfeeds sports era of blogs and twitter has reporting news become a rat race environment of first to report to get credit for the story???... and in so doing are these journalists too often forced release a STORY without accurately checking their sources and in so doing risk their reputation?? or is this nothing more than lies lies and more lies fabricated by the big evil empire BSPN to generate more hits?


@ johnny

"This will never happen because Denver would rather give him to an eastern conference team, also

1.*-
Wrong, on two counts. They don't care if they trade within the conference because they are trying to get something instead of nothing. And two: young big-men and legit 7'footers are short to come by in this league. You said "the Nuggets would finally have a true post player who would demand double teams", that's exactly why this trade makes sense for them, not only for that reason, but for the future, they can build around him where the Lakers don't want to.
*-

--
"I honestly believe that the Lakers would be a more exiting team to watch during the regular season, but in a best of 7 series, size always wins due to the PSYCHOLOGY of facing the same SIZE, game after game after game after game!!!!!!!!!!
It's ingrained in our genes to be afraid of size and you can only ignore it for so long, and that is why size is a huge psychological advantage when facing the same team. It gets in your head eventually. Go ahead and trade Bynum, but what will Melo do to Perkins, O'neal and Big Baby. Go ahead and do the dumbest trade imaginable for when the Celtics go to the finals again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
SIZE COUNTS IN THE PLAYOFFSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NUFF SAID. "

2.
*- It is a psychological game, so when the Lakers play the conf. finals we can score at will against the Spurs @ the Spurs, thereby taking their HCA. Same for Celtoids. Any offensive threat they have coming from their outside shooting by way of Ray Allen or Paulina "drama" Pierce or KG for that matter will be offset by us having two offensive owners who demand double teams, empirical evidence will lead us to believe that the Lakers will be very, very, very tough to defend, great offense offsets 1-weak defender every time. I think Phil Jackson can draw up plays that will make the 'triangle' flexible enough to accommodate two offensive threats, see: Chicago Bulls 96'-98', they were unstoppable, and those Phil Jackson-led teams were faster and their defense was not lost, because they were extremely physical all-around team to offset their lack of size-length in the paint, Bynum is just powerful, yet underachieves. We are flexible enough to shoot ourselves to wins now, we are that experienced, I think an Odom-Gasol-Kobe curtain around Carmelo would be devastating and comparable to the greatest quintets in history. The story is the same when it comes to rebounding as well, Carmelo averages 7 ribs a game, Bynum averages the same and he is a 7 footer, the size advantage is lost.

To conclude, the trade would be better if the Lakers acquired another marginally decent center to box or deflect shots off a Perkins/Djuan Blair/Thabeet/Dwight Howard. A healthy Lakers team with a rested Artest, Odom, Matt Barnes as defenders/enforcers, would also be devastating against the Heat since most of their scoring will be equalled and stopped.

@ Melo for Bynum is CRAZY talk. We'd being giving up post presence, field goal percentage, size, intimidation, DEFENSE and a host of intangibles for a prolific scorer who plays NO DEFENSE! This is crazy talk. HARD WORK, MUSCLE, and HEART wins CHAMPIONSHIPS. Not Melo!

Our only problem this year is the BABY-SOFT play of GASOL, the wandering soul of ARTEST, and the abuse opposing point guards inflict on FISHER. These are the Lakers most glaring LIABILITY'S.

GASOL and ARTEST/FISHER for:

Melo and NENE
Deng and NOAH
ALDRIDGE and Mathews
SMITH, HORFORD, Crawford
LOPEZ, Favors, and HARRIS
GRANGER and Foster/Collison
WEST and Ariza
BOGUT, MOUTE, Maggette

Posted by: Cecil | February 08, 2011 at 11:44 PM
--------------

Why in the world would you want to trade Gasol when he has an immaculable track record playing with Kobe. You prove my point why Bynum has been underachieving, for around 6 years. He has had moments but I have stopped backing him, since he decided that taking time off to go to the World Cup was more important than off-season surgery, it is haunting us right now, we are a handful of games out of HCA for most of the post-season, further hurting our chances of threepeating.

A Carmelo for Bynum trade is a no brainer, as such greats such as Magic and West have alluded to. Melo, doesn't need the ball to get it done, Bynum does, and gets injured, can't stay healthy, I rest my case. Gasol has been knock on wood since he arrived here and given Melo's athletic ability, I think he will be a smart choice deflecting the ball. We need to worry more about outside scorers from our rivals than the interior, where he have been getting owned..

CyberCosmiX - "Poker is one game in which you can read a lot into, gauge someone by."

Although hardly the end all or be all, I agree with you that Poker can tell quite a bit about a person. (Cool that you dad played with the Doc; he must roll some heavy coinage to do that and be pretty good himself!) I too worry a bit about the direction the Lakers will take when Papa Buss hands over the reins. But, who knows....

I prefer Melo

Alright I'm a little intoxicate so excuse me if I'm unable to express myself more coherently but I think its about time I disclosed my take on melo for bynum...

Oops sorry I'm think I'm losing connection...hello hello can u hear Me??

Histrionics from people who don't understand that REAL basketball and fantasy basketball are very different things.

What do we play for? RINGS!!!

Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.

GO LAKERS!!!

anthony will accept 10 m a year to be a lakers otherwise it's imposible him to join kobe.....

There have been a few sightings on this blog, anyone who thinks kwame brown should come back on the lakers should be taken outside out up against a wall n shot. kwame is a curse a joke he is a portaloo

What amazes me, frankly, is that, dissecting this potential trade, almost all the bloggers debate around Bynum's size, Bynum's health, Bynum's age, but seem not to pay attention to Bynum's attitude on the court.

I've seen several Lakers games this year, and my impression is always the same: he looks expressionless, feelingless, grimless, he doesn't thank a mate for an assist.. He looks older than is age, he doesn't show the fire that a young guy should have playing in the NBA and for the Lakers.

For me, this behavior is unpardonable. Look at Kobe's eye, even at Gasol's eye, and then look at Bynum's eye: no other words needed.

why wouldn't you WANT to trade for a top 5 nba player of the decade 2000'-2010' no debate: Kobe, Duncan, Lebron, Wade, Melo who could score anywhere from 40 to infinity on any given night in the NBA? In fact, I don't want to bother you with the amount of wins and successes at the personal level from a team-perspective I can see chemistry where I see it lacking with the Lakers right now. No debate about the impact he would have on the city, the team etc. There will be growing pains but how can you not see Carmelo Anthony benefiting from the 'open man' schemes in the triangle offense, are you insane? Bynum and Carmelo you get basically the same guy in rebounding, other than defense and some size and length inside I think it is doable. And if you don't trade for Melo today, you basically concede that while he is a top 5 NBA player, he will never win an NBA title playing with another NBA great in Kobe Bryant, are you insane? I don't underestimate the importance of having inside defense but not at the cost of losing the prospect of having Melo, if anything it would serve us right in doing it right now because we would be looking at the future. Melo is 26 yrs of age, I can not stress this enough. Fisher I love and admire him and his work ethic however his production has slowed down. So Odom, Barnes in the wing, Blake, Brown as 2nd option, we revitalize the bench, give our starters rest time etc. Melo unlikely to get injured, and you can outrun the fastest teams in the NBA because you have 2 elite shooters. Don't come with this garbage that we 100% need interior big men because that is not entirely true, you need intelligent talented players to come together, and with the exception of last year when Bynum who I love and respect we have not really been able to rely on him when it counts the most, and when you face the poss. of not even having HCA you need cold-in-the-veins clutch elite athletes to get you through, so in-effect Derek Fisher was and has been more important overall to this team, than Andrew Bynum. Don't get me wrong he has been vital but elite players like Carmelo only come around in cycles, and I would love to see a Gasol, Odom, Kobe, Carmelo along with the rest of the supporting cast to see what they could do, if they could re-invent themselves. Carmelo has been playing with one coach in this league one system for as long as he has why do people think he wouldn't be a good fit? If he barely committed to defense this trade would set us up not just for now but years to come, right now we are just rolling the dice waiting on a center who hasn't really been there for us specially this year when it will matter the most, imho.

@Marco64

I want to add that keeping Bynum is a catch-22 one second you get great blocks and maybe a tip in or two, another second you get a guy that hasn't been as clutch and who hasn't really showed up during our big games, but who overall probably adds to the chemistry issues with the team right now. If the Lakers land Carmelo all we hear is he can't play defense, I say you don't even need to worry about it when you have Gasol running the paint scoring with hooks, and one thing that is under-reported is the fact that he and the Lakers would benefit a lot from the 'open-man' triangle style offense. Kobe+Carmelo would be like having a Python and a Black Mamba and you don't know who to try and defend first, a screen from Odom or Matt with their length in the low block would be lethal, this is a fact. Add in the fact that he has ice in his veins and a relentless work ethic to accompany this team how could it not work? Less odds of it not working than working. Tough call, but I say do it while we can, and look to the future, if I were the Cels I wouldn't want for Kobe to be open and drop anywhere from 30-41 or Carmelo to chip in with 15-25 with high efficiency.

@London Laker.........
ROTFLMAO..............

My heart says, GO FOR MELO.

My mind says, let's KEEP DREW.

I'm thorn. Mitch sure has a very hard job.

On to Boston, for 3 & o!!!


LAKERS ALL DAY!!!

For me, this behavior is unpardonable. Look at Kobe's eye, even at Gasol's eye, and then look at Bynum's eye: no other words needed.

Posted by: Marco64 | February 09, 2011 at 04:44 AM

Dude...Those that looked into Kareem's eyes, he look and played EXPRESSIONLESS and killed you with the Sky Hook, over and over without any EMOTION.

It's a tough call.

I like a lot Andrew Bynum and think he is a great piece in this Laker Team.

But this is like a temptation, if it is really possible to get Carmello it makes you wonder.

If Kobe played at PG, Ron & Mello could swap between SG & SF.

It's really a wondering scenario and would secure more years contending when Kobe retire.

We just have to support the team no matter what.


What I want to see is how Bynum responds to all this trade talk on Thursday against the Celtics.

Will he come out on with passion or indifference.

If it's indifference forget him.

If it's passion, then we know he's been dogging it.

Guess it's lose lose for AB

One more thing if it's passion, he'll have to keep it up at least until the trade deadline.

Perhaps this is what Drew needs, a little taste of reality. You are expendable. So get your butt in gear, and if you don't keep it up, the Lakers won't take their option on you after next year and it's hello Dwight Howard.

Another thing Drew, no owies.

@G-Money.. true..
but it's not nice to compare bynum Kareem, Shaq, Dwight, or, or,or, you get the pic..You can compare him to kwame though, he's definately better no arguement there...lol

Oh my - this subject has gotten so out of control.

Folks - this is all just ratings hype and random conversation material for TNT and BSPN tomorrow and Friday night. They are just looking to ramp up ratings and try to get an edge over each other with "scoop".

Isn't it funny how we are playing the KNICKS on Friday? And isn't it funny how NY was supposedly Carmelo's #1 choice? And if you read the NY Post - you would see the headline of "Lakers trying to steal Carmelo away from Knicks".

Tis a big smokescreen that Hollywood is creating. Saturday morning, **POOF**, this crazy trade talk will be done.

Can the Lakers win one or both games? That's all I care about.

Cheers - PLG

Wow...all these 5,000 word essays about why trading Bynum for Carmelo would be a good deal. Well, here's the short answer: this trade would be excellent...for the regular season (heck, we might even break the regular season record). But for the PLAYOFFS, not so much. We would get mauled, stifled, and stuffed byBoston, and possibly even by Miami and Orlando.

You guys STILL don't get it. This team is custom designed for the playoffs...half court game, rebounds, ball control, interior stops/alters/intimidation...and Bynum is the centerpiece for the Assault on the Celts Interior. Without him, we're the Miami Heat West.

So fuggedaboudit. Phil Jackson is NOT going to undo and redo this team in the last half of his last year.

the only good trade would be bynum along with half the bench for either dewight or cousins, and sign some good role players from D league. i'm sure lakers can find guys who will be willing to throw their bodies on the line for 50-50 balls.
.

If the notorious Practice Season Police is hot on my heels, I guess I must be doing something right, no? I'm just glad the tables have turned, much like pro wrestling: today's hero is tomorrow's baddy.

I'm ready to rock some rims, Blake Griffin outlaw style! Hey, Jimmy Goldstein, could I borrow that vest and snake-skin hat sometime?

Posted by: CyberCosmiX | February 08, 2011 at 11:49 PM
=====

Classic! Yep, I feel like a young Gorilla Monsoon, another Master of Intimidation, as the villain. My manager is Lou Albano. In fact, today's LA Times features a clash between 2 Titans of the Squared Circle, TJ Simers vs. Bill Plashcke. I'm sure most people will view Simers as the villain as he espouses such controversial views as trusting Phil Jackson as opposed to Plaschke who takes hobbitmage's more popular "box score" approach. Here are the links:

http://www.latimes.com/sports/basketball/nba/lakers/la-sp-simers-20110209,0,2941174.column

http://www.latimes.com/sports/basketball/nba/lakers/la-sp-plaschke-20110209-14,0,6025845.column

Maybe all these people that want to trade Bynum are just fans of other teams that want the Lakers to break up. People need to relax and realize that this is just the regular season. If the Lakers don't win the championship, then they can trade at the end of the season. There really is no need to rush a trade right now. Remember team chemistry is one of the most important things to win a championship. When you make big trades in the middle of the year, it gets really hard to win a championship.

CornerJ

Well put. If people could only accept Andrew Bynum for the important role player he is, perhaps they would appreciate him a little more. Instead, the whole focus is on his injuries and his numbers. Simers talks about the same thing in his article that I harp on: the importance of altered shots. Stu Lantz always says: "Altered shots are better than blocked shots." Andrew Bynum alters shots and dissuades players from entering the lane. THAT his his most important role on this team. Offensive production is a bonus. In the playoffs, he will be meaner, too. He's been there, done that.

It is about time the Lakers start thinking about trading BYnum. Six years of waiting is long enough !! There is no potential for Bynum. He get worse with every game and now he cannot make free throws. Last game with Memphis he was undert basket and missed about 6 shots. He was right under the basket and MISSED !! The Lakers did not win the championship because of Bynum. He was a zero in the playoffs. Melo would make the Lakers a championship team right away. There is not way the lakers will make it to second round with the team they have now. Fisher and Walton should also be traded. Laker management should get some cajones and make the right trade decisions. Bynum should go !

I accept Bynum for " the important role player he is" and appreciate him for that.

I wonder how many shots from Melo Bynum will alter, being the altered shots king that he is.

Look at this way, would you trade Bynum for a 26 yr old Wade, Labron or Kobe?

Yes, I know the common wisdom is you don't trade big for smaller, something dumb like trading a Divac for an unproven Kobe or passing on Michael Jordan to draft, uh, what was his name, Sam Bowie?

Anyway, the Heat and Celtics didn't have much trouble with the Lakers with Bynum playing. Guess he didn't alter enough shots.

And then there's this:
The Lakers are 18-9 in games with Bynum, and 18-7 in games without him.

Shucks, another one of those darn statistics getting in the way.

I guess the proof will be in the pudding, or the playoffs. We shall see.
I hope Bynum is healthy when that time comes.

>>>Say, we do this proposed deal, and Dwight opts out and we see the Shaq
>>>scenario play out again.

They did the Shaq scenario by dumping off enough players to make cap space to sign Shaq (among the players gone - Vlade Divac, Anthony Peeler, George Lynch, and of course Magic Johnson (retiring)).

The only way the Lakers can "see the Shaq scenario play out" in 2012 is if either Pau or Kobe leaves and most of the rest of the roster is gone as well.

If both Pau and Kobe remain on the roster, the Lakers won't have enough cap space to make a max offer to Dwight Howard. And that's by the CURRENT CBA. When they renegotiate the CBA this summer, it may make it completely impossible for the Lakers to obtain Howard.

>>>I will say that we go 7 and 0 or 6 and 1 on the roadie though.

I could see that happening.

It's typical of the NBA. Remember at the start of the season when the Heat started off poorly and the Lakers were one of the last remaining undefeated teams? And Shannon Brown and Steve Blake and Lamar were all hitting high % on their 3-pointers and the pundits were all speculating on whether the Lakers could break the 72 win record?

Then the Heat go on a winning streak and the Lakers lose a few and suddenly the Lakers are finished and it's San Antonio and Boston that are the media darlings (and Miami and Chicago on the next tier).

Actually, the San Antonio-Lakers situation reminds me of recent history:

Last season, Cleveland had the best record in the league during the regular season. They dominated. All the pundits had them as a shoe-in for the title. And the lowly Celtics, who played .500 ball for the second half of the season were written off. And then the playoffs happened.

>>>Oh, and what was that about Mo Williams? Oh yeah...
>>>MO WILLIAMS STINKS!

LOL. That's why I didn't bother even trying to do a Lakers-Denver-Cleveland 3-way trade. Other than raggedy Andy, there's nobody on that squad that I'd want to see in purple and gold.

 
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