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Caught in the Web: Reactions to Lakers' 93-84 victory over Memphis Grizzlies

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Note: Join us for a live chat at 12:30 p.m. Bring your questions then!

Game stories

--The Times' Mike Bresnahan credits the Lakers' defensive stops in their 93-84 victory Monday over the Memphis Grizzlies.

--The Daily Breeze's Elliott Teaford looks at how the Lakers grinded out a victory.

--The Memphis Commercial Appeal's Ronald Tillery details the Grizzlies' fourth-quarter collapse. Sidebars

--The Times' Bresnahan looks at how Ron Artest maintained his cool after getting hit by Marc Gasol.

--The Times' Broderick Turner highlights Lamar Odom's contributions.

--ESPN.com's Chris Broussard reports the Lakers and Denver Nuggets are in preliminary talks about acquiring Carmelo Anthony. Broussard reports the package would be built around Lakers center Andrew Bynum and that the Nuggets don't want Artest or Odom.

--The Orange County Register's Kevin Ding highlights how the Lakers helped Artest calm down.

--The Daily Breeze's Teaford mentions how Artest had a short memory of the incident.

Columns

--The Memphis Commercial Appeal's Geoff Calkins wants the Grizzlies to play the Lakers in the playoffs because he believes it would be a competitive series.

--The Orange County Register's Ding looks at the on-court relationship between Kobe Bryant and Pau Gasol.

--Fox Sports' Billy Witz credits the Lakers for playing with grit against Memphis.

Blogs

--ESPN Los Angeles' Brian Kamenetzky breaks down the Lakers' victory over Memphis.

--ESPN Los Angeles' Dave McMenamin lists 10 things to take away from the Lakers-Grizzlies game.

--Lakers.com's Mike Trudell details the game in a running diary.

--Silver Screen and Roll's DexterFishmore likes what the Lakers are providing so far on their Grammy trip.

--Forum Blue and Gold's Zephid notices there were a lot of things that went wrong in the Lakers' win over Memphis.

Tweet of the Day: "oh my nose hurts. can someone get me some ice ... im thinking about getting botox. my noise will never be the same." -- RONARTESTCOM (Lakers forward Ron Artest)

Reader Comment of the Day: "I have Ron Ron on my mind this morning. That was quite a shot he took in last nights' game. I can tell you that when I have been struck in the face inadvertantly, I felt a rush of rage that is difficult to explain. Nice job containing that Ron. He knew that Marcs' shot was inadvertant but still, he is human and the urge to retaliate is a strong one. He has tried so hard to rebuild his image and I'm glad it didn't end there. Ron will have to face the music one day though. Players know that Ron doesn't want to make trouble. One day he may have to let the league know that it's not ok to bang on Ron Ron. I dunno, something simple like the Fish Scola maybe." -- Johnny V

--Mark Medina

Twitter.com/latmedina

E-mail the Lakers blog at mgmedin@gmail.com

Photo: Lakers guard Kobe Bryant drives to the basket against Grizzlies guard Tony Allen in the fourth quarter Monday night. Credit: Mike Brown / EPA

 
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RCODTD = JOHNNYV = OUT FREAKIN STANDING SIR!!!

JV FTW!!!

I had Ron on my mind this morning too. The boy was tweeting like crazy last night saying some crazy ish.

"I'm thinking taking a vacation to Mars on a mo-ped"

"I feel like flagrant fouling a gorilla"

"I think my next post move I gonna drop to the floor in a judo position"

"I just wanna be off balance. Just like remove one of my Glutes and replace it with a calf muscle"


HAHAHAHA!!! Ron - you so crazy! I love this guy. And I'm especially proud of him for keeping himself pretty under control and staying focused on his job. I don't care if he missed those 2 FT's at that point in the game. He took care of business the rest of the way. Way to go Ron! Let's see some of that fire against the punk green weeners. Let's see if they've got the fortitude to keep up with you. I'm thinking NO. No they don't.

GO LAKERS!!

Ron Artest: My favorite kind of crazy.


DBDH!

WOW! I made it into an LA Times article! WOW! Thanks MM!

Ron the Art - Twitter poet,

I thought the circus left town with Shaq, but no...

the battle is on now.

Go Ron, Go Lakers

Laker Tom,

Sorry (for your sake) to hear about the potential Bynum for Carmelo deal, but bear in mind that the Nugs are probably just talking to the Lakers and leaking it to try to goad New Jersey to come back to the bargaining table or to get New York to give them more.

I'm not sure a straight Bynum for Melo deal really moves the Lakers forward. It's kind of a sideways move. Melo gives them more scoring punch, and his defense isn't as bad as it used to be, but it makes the front court much thinner.

The only way I could see it being a positive move for the Lakers is if they managed to rope one of Denver's bigs into the deal, but it's hard to make the money work for that, as KMart makes 16 million and Nene makes 11 million (and the Lakers would already be trading up in salary). Birdman might work for the Sasha Vujacic exception.

Note that this would be a total change in what Denver has been trying to get back in a deal for Carmelo. Bynum's young, but he's already pretty highly paid, so it's not like they'd be getting a bargain big man. OTOH, big centers that can play at both ends (as opposed to Nene, who's a little center who can play at both ends) are pretty rare in the NBA right now.

Chris Broussard says the Lakers are talking to the Nuggets about Melo. How's this in any way tangible? Every GM has the due diligence to their Franchise to have discussions with Masai Ujiri about Melo. Any GM not even interested in speaking about Melo, is either strapped for cash, in a climate Melo's uninterested in or the price is too much.

A long time ago, when Dr.Buss, owned the Kings, he tried to pry Wayne Gretzky away from Edmonton. Pocklington being a businessman as well, didn't bite on that on. When the climate changed, Bruce McNall swooped in and got #99.

Trading for Melo would be disadvantageous at this point. For starters, all the touches Melo would get, takes away from Pau and Lamar (Assuming Andrew is traded, as the piece alluded to), taking away from our inside advantage. Even though Melo has a sophisticated baseline game, it would be an offensive gain but a defensive mess. We would lose the length advantage that helped us win two titles, and we're just going to scrap it willy nilly. Don't think so.

Talk is talk, and in this case with the Lakers, talk is cheap. Melo wants to be a Knick, he will only negotiate with the Knicks.

While Broussard is a reliable reporter, this speaks to hits on a story, nothing too constructive. Unfortunately, like a lot of ESPN reporters, this guy loves to hear himself talk. He's really full of himself and I take this story with half a teaspoon of salt, and there's lumps in the salt!!

The Mother Ship is reporting on an AB for Melo deal.

We all know that when a proposed/alleged deal is reported involving the Lakers, it's never going to happen.

NBA disinformation at its finest. Just like a good Friday cliffhanger on "One Life To Live", the trade deadline chatter/gossip machine runs like clockwork.

...

DBDH!

The ESPN rumor mill is spinning again. Lakers in trade talks with Denver for Melo. Looks like Drew will be the centerpiece here. LT pls DO NOT become mike t if this happens.
Thanks
PSP Officer

http://sports.espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/news/story?id=6101304

Sounds like Denver is trying to up the anty on the Knicks because what they are willing to give now is dog turd.

Johnny V, nice post for the RCOTD. RonRon has really endeared himself to all of us, not just for his hard-nosed play but also for the classy say he has conducted himself on and off the court. First NBA player ever that you can use "classy" AND "crazy" at the same time in describing him...as in, dude's sow kinda classy-crazy...

As for the article on the Melo for Bynum possible trade, I hope it isn't so. Yeah, Melo con Kobe would be an awesome combo...but unfortately, not a finals winning combo. You need the bigbig in the middle, and Pau won't cut it there against the beefed up Celts this time. I still say we should keep this team intact.

Marc apologized and that was good but ron should not have to stand down everytime just because of his reputation.. That is BS! Ron has every right to retaliate esp when players are almost intentionally picking fights knowing full well he has no other choice but not retaliate or face severe consequences... One of these ron is just gonna have unload take the damn suspension and send a message!

As for the article on the Melo for Bynum possible trade, I hope it isn't so. Yeah, Melo con Kobe would be an awesome combo...but unfortately, not a finals winning combo. You need the bigbig in the middle, and Pau won't cut it there against the beefed up Celts this time. I still say we should keep this team intact.

Posted by: CornerJ | February 08, 2011 at 09:20 AM

Two quotes immediately come to mind:

Everything should be as simple as it is, but not simpler.
-Albert Einstein

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
-Bert Lance

Bumyn for Melo, please pull the trigger!

ESPN-Talks are on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh yeah - what kind of crazy stupid freaking call was that on Shannon?? Kicking out his legs?? Offensive foul?? My behind. That was the winner of Lamest Call of the Night for sure. Seriously. And these idiots are infallible?? Untouchable?? Why does the NBA have the worst refs of any professional sport?? And Darth Stern's worried about players overreacting?? Like that's what ruins the game for the fans?? LOL!! What a maroon. He is pure evil and must be destroyed.

KOBE + MELO = CHAMPIOSHIP!!!!!

@JohnnyV - Great post and well deserved! The Fish-Scola incident was one of my favorite moments in Lakers history. I remain convinced to this day that Derek Fisher sealed Game 2 and won Game 3 when he crumpled Scola because that is how a great leader leads. There was no way that Jordan Farmar was going to let his ego get the best of him with the watchful eye of Derek Fisher sitting that one out and tweeting from his hotel room. Farmar stuck to the Lakers schemes, the Lakers played Lakers basketball and they won one for The Fisher! If something like that happens with Ron-Ron "accidentally" to a nice, clean player like KG, so be it.

@sean - +1. These guys need something to write about - no more, no less. I concur with the reasons why it is too risky for the Lakers if we are going to have a shot at a three-peat. For the future? That's a different analysis. This is nothing but a BS rumor.

HAVING SAID THAT, if the Nuggets are going to salvage something out of losing 'Melo, Bynum makes sense. Assuming all these #1 picks from the Nets are gone, I haven't heard a better option than a 23 year old center who has been part of two championships and who is bound to be an all-star if he can get and stay healthy. Bynum would be a 20-10 guy on almost any other team who has that rare length and athleticism to alter shots and reduce opposing teams's fg% (the most important stat there is). With the Lakers he's a role player. This is STILL a big man's game and there are very few centers with Bynum's talent out there. So from Denver's standpoint, why not? From 'Melo's standpoint, why not? The Nuggets can always trade Nene for a guy like Iggy, for example, and reconstruct the team that way or make other moves that would position themselves for the future.

So let's see how a deal could work out...

Deal 1: straight up.

Bynum for Melo works under the CBA. Denver gets a player who's locked in for 2 more years at the hardest position to find quality players. Lakers get a scoring machine, but get weaker in the front court. This would require a herculean effort by one or two of Ratliff/Smith/Caracter to even keep the team at the same level.

I doubt this deal would happen because can get more elsewhere.

Deal 2: Bynum + goodies for Carmelo

Add in Caracter, Ebanks, and a couple of draft picks. Now they're getting a few additional assets that might pan out to be useful players. Though not as valuable as high draft picks (at least in most GMs eyes), there's some potential there, and if it doesn't pan out, they could cut them lose this summer or a year from now.

Deal 3: Bynum + goodies + salary dump for Carmelo

This is the way the deal has worked with other teams - they want them to take back one or more of their other big multi-year contracts (Billups, Harrington, JR Smith, Nene, Andersen)

While it would be difficult for the Lakers to match any of their salaries except Chris Andersen, either Nene or Andersen would go a long way toward back-filling Bynum's position.

Let's try a few that work under the CBA (with just LA and Denver involved - bringing in a third team would add a ton of variations):

3a. Carmelo + Chris Andersen for Bynum + Sasha's trade exception.

Strictly a salary dump for Denver. If a deal does go down, I think you'll almost certainly see some or all of the Sasha trade exception go to Denver and a longer salary come to the Lakers. Andersen makes sense - he'd be a backup center to Pau - in fact, you could tack on Andersen for Trade Exception to any of the following potential deals

3b. Carmelo + Billups for a ton of players + Bynum

The problem is, the Lakers are already in a trade deficit with Bynum for Melo, so they'd have a ton of salary to make up if you throw in Chauncey's hefty 13 million. And I guarantee you Denver doesn't want Luke. And they probably don't want Lamar or Artest either... why give up one big salary for another big salary. If you're rebuilding, you want out of the big money as fast as possible - you only want young, fairly inexpensive players you can build around (e.g. Lawson, Afflalo, Bynum, Forbes, Shannon Brown, Ebanks, Caracter)

Second problem is - if the Lakers dump 7 players on Denver for just Carmelo and Chauncey, then the rosters are imbalanced. It would of COURSE include sending Derek Fisher to Denver (who Denver would then buy out, and Fish would re-join the Lakers in 30 days). But the Lakers would probably need to take back one or two cheap players as well, to balance out rosters.

It's ugly, but here you go:

Lakers trade Bynum, Fish, Smith, Blake, Brown, Fisher, some Trade Exception, and draft picks to Denver (also possibly Ebanks &/or Caracter if Denver has their eye on either)

Denver trades Carmelo, Chauncey, Chris Andersen, and Anthony Carter to the Lakers.

Denver then buys out Fisher and he re-joins the Lakers.

It's a total financial WRECK for the Lakers for the next few seasons (Melo and Chauncey add 30 million + to the payroll), but here's what they'd have post-trade:

C - Gasol, Andersen, Ratliff
PF - Odom, [Caracter?]
SF - Carmelo, Artest, Luke, [Ebanks?]
SG - Kobe, [Luke?]
PG - Billups, Fisher

The Lakers would be awfully short on guards, but their starting lineup would be intense.

I hate trade talk this late in the season, but... The only way I could see it working is if we got Nene - they won't need him. Throw in anyone not named Pau, Kobe, Ron, or Lamar. I like Melo's game and he is a lot younger than Kobe. At some point, the torch will need to pass. Kobe and Melo are friends. I love Drew and his game, but the next time he gets injured this deal will look pretty good. Melo is a great one. Everybody knows it. He will have the hunger for a ring, Nene and Melo? I really like Chauncy as well. I would give them Fish.. Sorry Fish... I am glad I don't have Mitch's job!

Melo for Bynum does seem to make some sense for the Nuggs. Though they want to cut $$ they also want to go young, so they would have a young center to build around and another year to evaluate him, trade him.

Let's see, Kobe, Melo, Gasol, seems like, no, well maybe,
sounds like Wade, James, Bosh.
Lakers become Miami West.
Might work against most teams, trouble playing the Celts.

Why would the Lakers consider this trade (if rumors are true)?
Could they be convinced Bynum is injury prone and a limited minutes player?
Bynum is a risk, not a great trade prospect due to salary/injury history.
Are the Lakers looking at Dwight Howard coming available and willing to take their chances for a year or two until that happens?

Kobe, Melo, Pau and Dwight would be pretty good, no?

The article did mention other players could be involved.

MM, time to use your access and get some conformation or denial of any talks taking place regarding this.

that call on shannon was just wrong should have been a no call. i wonder about all these bad calls that get negated when reviewed, but that does not help teams losing games because of those very calls. this is a problem that the league needs to seriously look at. i see a sense of impowerment with the refs, going in the direction of almost agression in their pronouncements

Is Melo at this point better than Artest?
Would Melo be in there at crunch time?

The length everyone talks about is true, but only in the start of the 1st and 3rd quarter. The rest of the time Odom is in. Bynum is never in there at the end of games, never in there at crunch time.

one question, exactly how and what is melo going to do to help us with boston, especially if drew is in the deal?

@LongTimeLaker Fan- Nice post. Remember that you cannot combine the Trade Exception with a player to obtain another player or players. It would have to be used separately.

I would be shocked if the Lakers did anything. I know I have posted this before, but the last trade deadline deal the Lakers made was in 1997 when they traded Joe Kleine and a #1 pick (who turned out to be Anthony Parker) to the Nets for George McCloud. It makes no sense to me that they will do anything other than reintegrate Matt Barnes when he comes back.

@justa- You said it! Shannon Brown was simply following through, not trying to trip anyone. That is a very rare call.

This just in from the talking heads at the Mother Ship:


Waa-waaa, wa-waaahh-waaah,wa. (Charlie Brown's teacher's voice)

That is all.


DBDH!

Just want to chime on this Melo for Socks. Not a good deal at all, it's a luxury tax killer adding 8M more. Continue the experiment on Socks and decide after next season when Howard becomes available. Should we unload Bynum or Gasol in exchange of DH. Go with Big vs. Big, not Big vs. small. I have one question, why is AB not playing on the 4th Q? It is either foul trouble or just too slow to maintain the lead.

What the Lakers need is a goos, fast and a sharp shooting PG, Brooks is available and also Hinrich but at what price can we get them?

If Lakers put their minds on every game, I don't think we have any trouble. Problem is a game-to-game thing, it's like dealing with Lindsey Lohan you never know what you will get in the next game.

Trades continued...

So Billups makes too much to make an easy trade. Try Al Harrington instead. He'd be less of a hit to the Lakers (though for longer).

Lakers trade Bynum, Smith, Fisher, and Caracter for Carmelo, Al Harrington and Anthony Carter.

Again, this is one where Denver buys out Fish and the Lakers re-hire him. Lakers probably include the cash to buy him out, so basically he becomes a 3.7 million salary dump for Denver, in addition to the dump of Harrington (and possibly Andersen if he's thrown in).

This could also include Ebanks going to Denver or Ebanks instead of Caracter - it all depends on which they value more - and probably draft picks as well.

Not quite as nice as adding Billups, but it does reinforce the Lakers front court with more experienced players:

C: Gasol [Andersen?], Ratliff
PF: Odom, Harrington
SF: Anthony, Artest, Luke, Ebanks
SG: Kobe, Brown
PG: Blake, Carter [until Fish gets back], Fish

Even weaker at the PG spot (if you can imagine that), a bit weaker at C.

I am 100% for the trade.

And the only reason is I don't trust Andrew's knees. We need to pull this off before the next setback.

one question, exactly how and what is melo going to do to help us with boston, especially if drew is in the deal?

Posted by: lance from da' bronx | February 08, 2011 at 09:48 AM


He wouldn't help, that's the point. CAVEAT EMPTOR. The Green Jerseys would have a significant advantage. #34 would eat Melo alive, and the rest of the O would scrap the bones. He would targeted significantly on the Offensive end, it would also be a detriment to Fish and/or Kobe, there would be a lot of transition three's and Melo would definitely get into Foul Trouble. Which if you understand the concept of Melo's game, trumps anything he could possibly provide Offensively. This would be a mistake if you're trying to three peat.

I love Bynum, but I'm always holding my breath with his knees. If we can get generational player like Carmelo, we have to do it.

When thinking about how to transition after Kobe, Carmelo is a great place to start. In the meantime, the trio of Kobe, Carmelo and Gasol would be pretty devastating. Mix in Lamar and Artest, it is very enticing.

Sure we'd be down a big the battle against the Celtics. Carmelo isn't exactly a small guy though either. Carmelo is a bull. Plus the Celtics are aging, their window of opportunity is closing fast. Getting Carmelo would automatically put us into contention for the next 5 years as Kobe ages and Lebron and the Heat rise. We could match Carmelo up with Lebron! Carmelo is the only guy in the NBA who can handle Lebron.

I think this deal makes sense on so many levels for the Lakers that we must get it done.

Go Mitch!
Go Lakers!
Go Aztecs!

Is Melo at this point better than Artest?
Would Melo be in there at crunch time?

The length everyone talks about is true, but only in the start of the 1st and 3rd quarter. The rest of the time Odom is in. Bynum is never in there at the end of games, never in there at crunch time.

Posted by: Magia32 | February 08, 2011 at 09:48 AM
=====

Plus 'Melo's not a great point guard like Magic Johnson. I kid!

The start of the first and third quarter are very, very important (especially the start of the third quarter). The first quarter sets the pace and sets the rotations. The 4-5 combination of Pau-Bynum-Odom wears teams down in a 7 game series and is the co-primary reason (Kobe being the other) that we have won back-to-back titles. Bynum's presence should not be minimized. His ability to alter shots, as he demonstrated repeatedly last night, is a big reason why the Lakers hold teams to low field goal percentages, the MOST important team statistic.

Would I trade Bynum for "Melo? If I'm looking at just this season, no. If I'm looking ahead to the next 3-4 seasons, I think you would have to. There aren't many players out there who you can match up with LeBron James or Kevin Durant, and they are going to be deep in the playoffs for the foreseeable future. 'Melo gives you that ability. But it's still a big man's game, so i just don't know.

Do the Trade Now!

Trade for Melo equals three or four more
championships for Kobe!!!!!!

i must admit to being confused about all this about melo. how do we stop the middle. without the girth and length of drew, the middle becomes the diamond lane! lo can help but you can't teach width!

This season... no...

Long term... YES!!!

I am glad I am not Mitch... ;-)

Wait, how much does he make?

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Sure is somewhat exciting to think about various options. One thing as well, is Dwight Howard can be a Free Agent after next season. How does that play? After next season, if we choose, we can let Bynum go (our choice) and sign Howard (his choice). Just another thought.

MM,

Hows about run a poll for the Lakers blog on a straight up trade of Bynum for Melo.
Just for fun.

Successful Laker teams have always had dominant centers...

How would this look?

PG-Kobe
SG-Melo
C-Pau
SF-Ron
PF-Lo

Kobe would make a great PG!

Would I trade Bynum for "Melo? If I'm looking at just this season, no. If I'm looking ahead to the next 3-4 seasons, I think you would have to. There aren't many players out there who you can match up with LeBron James or Kevin Durant, and they are going to be deep in the playoffs for the foreseeable future. 'Melo gives you that ability. But it's still a big man's, so i just don't know

Posted by: KobeMVP888 | February 08, 2011 at 10:00 AM

Than why did Phil come back for another season? If you trade Drew for Melo, you're not only putting the 3 peat in dubious territory, you're also opening a can of worms for Phil. At this point, why the hell would he want to deal with more transition, more problems, more defensive lapses, more stress.

double edged sword for sure.

Wow - trade talk galore today.

Reasons this is NOT TRUE:

1. this is BSPN and they don't like the Lakers except AK/BK and they didn't scoop this tidbit when clearly they have the inside (ex. MM who is much better situated at the more respectable LAT).

2. Lakers still have hopes this team is capable of winning THIS YEAR. I don't think they would change the assets and advantages they hold against every other potential playoff team (current standings) to build for the future.

3. LakerTom has not spoken. Either he is in shock from these rumors OR they just aren't true so he is unwilling to comment.

So, based on the above, I declare this a false rumor.

Carry on

Cheers - PLG

Oh yeah - what kind of crazy stupid freaking call was that on Shannon?? Kicking out his legs?? Offensive foul?? My behind. That was the winner of Lamest Call of the Night for sure. Seriously. And these idiots are infallible?? Untouchable?? Why does the NBA have the worst refs of any professional sport?? And Darth Stern's worried about players overreacting?? Like that's what ruins the game for the fans?? LOL!! What a maroon. He is pure evil and must be destroyed.

Posted by: justanothermambafan | February 08, 2011 at 09:35 AM
-
Justa, NBA used to have the best refs of any pro sports in the 80's.


Now? Well, now we're stuck w/ those refs and their agenda...

@Johnny V - congrats on RCOTD.


Drew for Melo is tempting. It would help the Lakers matchup with the Heat better (which is the future), but hurt in a matchup vs. Boston (which is the present danger). This is a very tough call, unlike the Pau for Melo trade which I would be against.

An interesting way of looking at it is what would Pat Riley, Danny Ainge or Buford think if the Lakers traded Bynum for Melo straight up? Would they fear the Lakers even more or be relieved?

Carmelo is a winner. He's never been on a losing team. He turned around the Nuggets! Think about that. The only thing comparable to that is what Lebron did in Cleveland. Carmelo played one year in college, won the National Championship. The guy is a winner, he would be the perfect Laker, he fits right in.

Go Lakers!
Do it Mitch!

Oh, and Melo for Bynum?


Ain't gonna happen...

MM.. I agree with Art and I refuse to waste my time and get into any preliminary melo discussions about any supposed preliminary discussions lakers and nuggets had... Until the validity of these supposed league sources can be confirmed it is false journalism as far as I am concerned but in the meantime I'm sure their website will generate one million hits today

Simply put I do not trust BSPN and broussard is a JOKE!

I'm pretty sure that THE trade would probably have to have Kobe and Phil's approval and that Drew has really been evaluated to where if he's moved, the Lakers know better than us.

A trade the Lakers should focus on is Andrew Bynum ($13.4M, 11.3ppg, 7.4 rpg, 1.8 bpg & 1,1 apg) for Marc Gasol ($3.5M, 11.7ppg, 7.1rpg, 1.7bpg & 2.7apg). Add whatever extra pieces are necessary to make salaries match. M Gasol’s career numbers are a bit better than Bynum’s (Gasol is +2 in ppg, +1.2 in rpg, +1 in assists) and importantly Gasol is healthier.

At this point, why the hell would he want to deal with more transition, more problems, more defensive lapses, more stress.
Posted by: sean |
============

Some good points, but remember how easily Gasol fit in when he joined the Lakers in Feb, 2008.

>>>I just wonder how the triangle offense will change Melo if he did come here.
>>>However we have not had a scoring SF for quite some time, especially one as
>>>dynamic as Melo......

Ever hear of two guys named Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen? A shooting guard and small forward? And those teams didn't even have as good a center as Pau.


@LTLF... I don’t panic when I see Bynum trade rumors because I know that Jerry, Mitch, and Phil understand how valuable Drew is to the Lakers present and future. If they were to trade Drew, it would have to be to take advantage of a great opportunity where they were getting back more than they were giving up. Using that criteria, I don’t see a Bynum for Melo straight up trade making any sense for either team. Nene still has an $11.6M player option for next year which would mean that the Nuggets would have almost a $30M payroll for centers next year. As for the Lakers, trading Drew would require the Lakers to move Pau to the starting center role, the effect of which we saw earlier this year when Drew was recovering from his knee operation, and while Melo can play power forward against some matchups, adding him would give the Lakers too many small forwards. By the way, your usual thorough and well thought analyses of the Drew for Melo trade options.
.......................................
@SEAN... I agree with you that this is likely news leaked by the Nuggets to get the Knicks to move forward with a trade for Melo. With Pau suddenly playing like the best power forward in the game, I would be hesitant now to even trade Pau for Melo right now unless we could also get Chauncey as part of the deal. Thursday night’s game against the Celtics in Boston will be an important test for the Lakers to evaluate Pau’s matchup against KG. I am hoping Pau will bounce back strong this time.
.....................................
@JOHNNY V...Congratulations on the well-deserved RCOD, Johnny. As far as I am concerned, anything we get from Ron during the regular season is gravy. Ron is built for the playoffs and is the Lakers ultimate defensive weapon, the defender no small forward wants to face in a 7-game series. Slowly but surely, the rest of the league is starting to see that Ron is really a good guy at heart.
....................................
@PSP... “LT pls DO NOT become mike t if this happens.” LOL. I’m a Lakers fan first and foremost. While I would be disappointed if the Lakers traded Drew, I could not imagine rooting for any other NBA team or quitting my blog family just because the Lakers traded my second favorite player.
...................................
@MVP... “I haven't heard a better option than a 23 year old center who has been part of two championships and who is bound to be an all-star if he can get and stay healthy.” How about the best power forward in the game with 2 championships and 4 All-Star game selections? Pau would actually be a much better fit for Denver’s current roster and would be a better option than Drew for the Lakers to give up to get Melo. While I would still pull the switch on a Pau for Melo trade, I would not be as willing to do it for a Drew for Melo trade.
...................................
@ART... “Let's see, Kobe, Melo, Gasol, seems like, no, well maybe, sounds like Wade, James, Bosh.
Lakers become Miami West. Might work against most teams, trouble playing the Celts.” Great observation about the Lakers becoming Miami West. The similarities, including a sometimes “soft” power forward backed by a weak center are uncanny. Unfortunately, once you’re paying for Kobe, Melo, and Gasol, there is absolutely no way that you would be able to sign Dwight Howard.
...................................
TOM

Can you imagine how much the Knicks would wet themselves if the Lakers got Carmelo and they got diddly?

Come on people, always fun to talk trades, cuz we're all GM's in our hearts, ha, ha.

By the way, Kareem was more of a finesse Center than an overpowering one.

Could be a motivation (if possible) to Drew, you know, like, "Come on big guy, you in it to win it or not?"

>>>but unfortately, not a finals winning combo. You need the bigbig in the
>>>middle, and Pau won't cut it there against the beefed up Celts this time

Yeah. You need a great center like Bill Cartwright, Stacey King, Will Perdue, Luc Longley, Bill Wennington, and Bison Dele to win championships.

Especially if you have a superstar shooting guard and a near-superstar small forward.

Than why did Phil come back for another season? If you trade Drew for Melo, you're not only putting the 3 peat in dubious territory, you're also opening a can of worms for Phil. At this point, why the hell would he want to deal with more transition, more problems, more defensive lapses, more stress.

Posted by: sean | February 08, 2011 at 10:07 AM
=====

Agreed. For this season, no way they do it. I'm just saying that looking forward, Carmelo Anthony is a star to help secure the future. As for Phil's can of worms, nobody is bigger than the team including Phil. If Denver offers to swap the two players and Mitch and Dr. Buss are in favor of it, Phil may not have any say in it whatsoever. I'm sure there isn't a "I have to approve trades" clause in his contract.

CARMELO ANTHONY-FOR-ANDREW BYNUM TRADE PROPOSAL
TURNED DOWN BY LAKERS' JIM BUSS, SON OF OWNER
.................................................................
By Frank Isola for the NY Daily News
http://tinyurl.com/4ee5wr8
.................................................................
“The Lakers recently turned down a deal for Carmelo Anthony because Jim Buss, the son of team owner Jerry Buss, does not want to part with Andrew Bynum.
...
The News has learned that Jim Buss, who holds the title of Lakers VP of Player Personnel, rejected a deal for Anthony, who would gladly sign an extension with the two-time defending champs.
...
Buss has strong ties to Bynum, the New Jersey native who Buss drafted right out of high school. It was Buss who refused to trade Bynum to the Nets in a deal for Jason Kidd despite Kobe Bryant pushing for the trade.
...
In fact, both Kobe and head coach Phil Jackson are in favor of a deal for Anthony.
...
"If that's the case why don't they just go straight to Jerry Buss and tell him to make the deal," said one league executive.
...
It's unlikely that Denver would trade Anthony to Los Angeles unless a potential deal included the 7-foot Bynum.
......................................................................
TOM

Kendrick Perkins, Shaq, Jermaine Oneal; would we really have to worry about those guys if we're running those old decrepit legs into the ground?

Pau wouldn't have as much pressure to score in the post because Carmelo can score even better.

Then you think about the close games. Carmelo is as clutch a player that there is. Mix that with Fisher and Kobe.

Defense is what we lose. But Bynum doesn't even play most crunch time minutes anyways. I really think we'll be alright with out Bynum and with Carmelo. What Carmelo brings to the game in all areas would offset what Bynum brings in my opinion.

Needlees to say, I would like to see this trade happen.

Go Mitch!
Go Lakers!
Go Aztecs!

Some good points, but remember how easily Gasol fit in when he joined the Lakers in Feb, 2008.

Posted by: Art | February 08, 2011 at 10:13 AM

You know, that's very true, Art, no doubt.

I'd like to say though, a lot of factors were at play there. Pau was rumored to go everywhere except L.A. up until the trade happened, and I'm sure about half the GM's pulled their hair out thinking about Pau and Kobe.

Second, the Lakers didn't bite on Kobe's stance. They held their ground and tried to fix things. Something he hinted at when in Denver on Melo's situation.
Unfortunately, Leon Rose is a siv. Hurting his clients leverage and Denver's as well. I don't think Rob Pelinka went to the media and leaked his clients wishes. Kobe can speak for himself, so, there wasn't any leaks to worry about. I'm sure living in L.A. helped his cause in that regard.

Thirdly, Pau, being a big, and being someone Phil has great respect for. Pau's understanding of the Triangle quickly, made it a smooth transition. Offensively for the most part, his defense slowly but surely came around.
If you got Melo, he'd be a hard case to work on defensively. Not to mention, Ron Artest would rightly, feel disrespected. When he signed in L.A. the mantra was Defense wins chips Ron, we need you to put us over the top on D and let the Mamba do his thing. If you put Ron on the bench, you take away an important energy and D cog and replace him with an offensively gifted, don't care about D. Again, I would see this, as another can of worms the coaching staff would have to deal with.

Melo's a winner? On what planet? He may be like princess in that he can help his team win games in the regular season, but come playoff time? Nope. Nada. No rings on those chubby fingers. He couldn't do it on the Olympic team either - with princess - until Kobe came that is. And we all know who the star was on that team. Melo's not a winner when it counts. And when does it count more, but in the PO's - and specifically the Finals? If you're thinking Melo's your guy for that in the future, I think you're wrong. Just say no to the doughboy.

LakerTom & sean:
What about trading Andrew Bynum for Marc Gasol?

@MVP... “I haven't heard a better option than a 23 year old center who has been part of two championships and who is bound to be an all-star if he can get and stay healthy.” How about the best power forward in the game with 2 championships and 4 All-Star game selections? Pau would actually be a much better fit for Denver’s current roster and would be a better option than Drew for the Lakers to give up to get Melo. While I would still pull the switch on a Pau for Melo trade, I would not be as willing to do it for a Drew for Melo trade.

Posted by: LakerTom | February 08, 2011 at 10:14 AM
=====

Yes, you have made your feelings very clear on this, but we disagree. I am optimistic that Drew is about a month away from blossoming. For now, his mojo isn't there at all. As Brian Shaw has intimated, he's not playing mean and as Phil has intimated, he's not active enough. He needs to channel his inner Joakim Noah, if it's even in there. I would also love to hear news that he has resumed working with the healthy Cap! Drew's footwork on offense has regressed if you ask me.

Truthfully, Tom, Bynum's disappointing me a bit so far this season because he looks healthy and is running the floor better, but there is a part of me that wonders if the Andrew Bynum we have seen at his very best isn't the best we will ever see from him. Like I said, I don't believe he's 100% yet and I'm optimistic that he'll elevate his game before the playoffs. If he does, other teams will have to do some serious praying to beat the Lakers in a 7 game series.

But Tom, Andrew Bynum is NOT the Black Swan. In my opinion, Pau is not only underrated today, but he is one of the most underrated players in NBA history. If you put a gun to my head and made me trade one of the two for 'Melo, Bynum would become the Nugget, NOT the Black Swan.


@DJ... “Sure is somewhat exciting to think about various options. One thing as well, is Dwight Howard can be a Free Agent after next season. How does that play? After next season, if we choose, we can let Bynum go (our choice) and sign Howard (his choice). Just another thought.”
...
LOL, DJ. It would have to be Howard demanding to be traded to the Lakers because there is no way the Lakers would be able to sign him as a free agent.
.................................................
PLG... “LakerTom has not spoken. Either he is in shock from these rumors OR they just aren't true so he is unwilling to comment.”
...
LOL, Shannon. Jim Buss has already spoken. Great story about getting Big Shot Rob’s signature. $100 to the waiter showed your true Lakers colors.
..............................
@ART... “Hows about run a poll for the Lakers blog on a straight up trade of Bynum for Melo.
Just for fun.”
...
More fun would be a poll to see what percentage of Lakers fans would trade Pau for Melo versus those who would trade Drew for Melo.
.............................
TOM


"If that's the case why don't they just go straight to Jerry Buss and tell him to make the deal," said one league executive.

Posted by: LakerTom | February 08, 2011 at 10:24 AM


Obviously, that executive is a neophyte. Who's to say it didn't already happen. The buck stops with Dr.Buss, any relationship Jim has with Drew is inconsequential when you're talking franchises and $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

I'm intrigued by Melo coming to L.A., I'm not saying I wouldn't trade for him, just not this year, when the three peat is on the line, when a major trade can spin the wheels in several different directions.

Wouldn't surprise me in Melo got traded anywhere! And it wouldn't surprise me if he stayed on for the rest of the season

LakerTom & sean:
What about trading Andrew Bynum for Marc Gasol?

Posted by: LJP | February 08, 2011 at 10:33 AM

@LJP- That's also a very intriguing scenario. I wouldn't feel as conflicted about it as with the Melo deal, as far as this year's concerned. If there was any validity to the scenario, it would be something that requires a lot of thought, definitely.

Lakerholic,

>>>The only way I could see it working is if we got Nene -

Okay, let's explore that. As I've said, the other deals Denver has been trying to negotiate involve them dumping one or more big multi-year contracts for expiring contracts. The problem is that the Lakers just don't have any big expiring contracts (if the Lakers had Kwame Brown on the roster right now, this would be a done deal).

Since Nene makes another 11 million next season, and he plays the same position as Bynum, it's not inconceivable that the Nugs would be willing to include him in a deal for Bynum plus as close to expiring salary as possible.

Carmelo = 17.1 million + Nene = 11.3 million for a total of about 28 million

To match salaries, the Lakers would have to trade at least 22.6 million (these are all approximate numbers - the contracts aren't even millions).

Bynum counts for 13.8 million. That means the Lakers would have to send another 8.8 million in contracts to Denver. Bear in mind that Denver has a maximum roster size of 15, so they're not going to want a 7-for-2 trade any more than the Lakers would.

>>>Throw in anyone not named Pau, Kobe, Ron, or Lamar

Okay, with that stipulation, here's what's left:

Luke - 5.2 million - no chance in hell Denver would take him
Blake - 4 million per for 4 seasons. His contract doesn't expire any time soon,
and with Billups and Lawson, they don't need him
Fisher - 3.7 million + 2 more seasons. Maybe if the Lakers would throw in 3
million cash and Fish would agree to a buyout such that the Lakers
could re-hire him
Shannon Brown - 2.2 million + 2.4 million - They'd definitely take him. Young,
energetic, explosive hops. He's the kind of filler they wouldn't mind
Matt Barnes - 1.7 million + 1.9 million - They'd probably be willing to take him.
He was good enough to start for Orlando. Just because he's not good
enough to start for the Lakers doesn't mean he sucks
Joe Smith - 1.3 million - definitely in the deal, but not much $$
Theo Ratliff - 1.3 million - same story
Devin Ebanks - 473 thousand - young talent, not much $$$ in the trade.
Derrick Caracter - same story

So let's say we start by putting Ratliff, Barnes, and Brown in the deal (so now it's Bynum+Ratliff+Brown+Barnes for Carmelo+Nene). That still leaves the Lakers short 3.6 million.

Throw in either Ebanks or Caracter plus Fisher plus cash (where Denver buys out Fish and the Lakers re-sign him in 30 days) and you have the makings of a (very ugly) deal:

Lakers trade Bynum+Ratliff+Brown+Barnes+Fisher+Ebanks to Denver for Carmelo + Nene.

there's the problem. The Lakers have to give up SIX PLAYERS (four of which are in their rotation) to get both Anthony and Nene. Even getting Fisher back, it leaves the Lakers pretty thin in the guard positions on the bench:

C: Pau, Nene, Smith
PF: Odom, Pau, Caracter
SF: Anthony, Artest, Luke
SG: Kobe, [Luke???]
PG: Blake, [Fish when he gets back]


@LAKER TRUTH
I am with you on this one.

I am looking towards the future on this one. Drew just hasn't had a great track record in the injury department. I can see him signing a contract extension, and then going down again.

Melo is extremely HUNGRY and would fit in well with this sqaud. We would be thin in the middle, but everywhere else, we would be stacked. Since next season might not even happen, I would roll the dice with hoping that D. Howard will still want to become a Laker. Think about it, Melo and D. Howard in their prime together and a still very capable Kobe Bryant. Now that's a squad that would be sacry good.

>>>Are the Lakers looking at Dwight Howard coming available and willing to
>>>take their chances for a year or two until that happens?

nope.

If the Lakers sign Chauncey, then there's no way in hell they'll have enough cap space to sign Dwight Howard in the summer of 2012. Any 2 of Pau, Kobe, and Melo is enough salary to keep them from making a maximum offer. They'd have to dump two of their big 3 for expiring contracts to have any chance of signing Howard.

@Lakerholic

Successful Laker teams have always had dominant centers...

Posted by: Lakerholic | February 08, 2011 at 10:06 AM


Wrong!
Wrong!
Wrong!

The last two Championships we have won with a half/Arsed Bumyn!!!!!!

And no, Pauli doesn't count!!!

>>>@LongTimeLaker Fan- Nice post. Remember that you cannot combine the
>>>Trade Exception with a player to obtain another player or players. It would
>>>have to be used separately.

Yep. Knew about that. That's why I didn't munge it in with Fisher to make up enough salary to trade for Nene or something silly like that.

That's why I mentioned Chris Andersen for the trade exception as being a likely component if a deal gets done. He's not as big a contract as Nene or Billups, but he's the largest long-term salary that the Nuggets could dump for a chunk of the trade exception, and he would be a decent backup center to take up some of the minutes Bynum would be vacating.

Other guys who Denver might be willing to dump for some of the trade exception: Renaldo Balkman (great... another SF - I guess if Ebanks went to Denver, getting Balkman back wouldn't be too terrible), Anthony Carter (deep backup PG), Melvin Ely or Shelden Williams (deep bench big).

If Andersen isn't in the deal, then Carter+Ely+Williams for trade exception could be included to balance out number of players (e.g. in the 6-for-2 Nene scenario I mentioned).

I doubt Denver would be willing to include Lawson, Forbes, or Afflalo for salary dumping purposes. Those are the young cheap talents they would want to build around, along with Bynum.

>>>I would be shocked if the Lakers did anything. I know I have posted this
>>>before, but the last trade deadline deal the Lakers made was in 1997

uhhhh. Aren't you ignoring the elephant in the room? Or should I say, el elefante en al cuarto?

Wow...Bynum for Melo? I'm sure glad I don't have to make that decision. I mainly agree with the camp that says Bynum gives us the best chance to succeed this year, while Carmelo Anthony would keep the Lakers a viable contender for the foreseeable future. I'm not going to front and offer some long-winded opinion, because I just don't know!

Here's something some of you might not have thought of regarding the Bynum for Melo deal...

It could actually HELP the Lakers get Dwight Howard in summer of 2012.

If D.H. is determined to leave Orlando, then the Magic might find a sign-and-trade for Carmelo Anthony much more acceptable than letting him walk for nothing.

Bynum's salary won't be enough for a max contract sign-and-trade. Carmelo's would be enough.

LakerTom

Assuming that the Jim Buss stuff is true regarding his refusal to part with Bynum for 'Melo (I don't believe any of this personally), it IS consistent with the way Dr. Buss has handed the reigns to his children. I read Jeanie Buss's book and rarely does Dr. Buss get involved anymore and he gives both Jeanie and Jim almost 100% leeway with their decision making. In other words, he defers to them and according to her does not overrule their decisions. He has a lot of faith and trust in Jim, in particular, as does Jeanie. She dispelled a lot of the power grabbing theories that we have heard from people like Roland Lazenby, who stands by his brilliant discussions on this topic. This is a family business that Jerry Buss has very proudly cultivated, so if there's any truth to that rumor, it wouldn't completely shock me.

"Oh yeah - what kind of crazy stupid freaking call was that on Shannon?? Kicking out his legs?? Offensive foul?? My behind. That was the winner of Lamest Call of the Night for sure. Seriously. And these idiots are infallible?? Untouchable?? Why does the NBA have the worst refs of any professional sport?? And Darth Stern's worried about players overreacting?? Like that's what ruins the game for the fans?? LOL!! What a maroon. He is pure evil and must be destroyed.

Posted by: justanothermambafan | February 08, 2011 at 09:35 AM "

That was a very peculiar call, one of the strangest ones I've ever seen. Especially when up to that point, it seemed like every call and no call was going the Lakers way.

Confusing to say the least.

>>>After next season, if we choose, we can let Bynum go (our choice) and sign
>>>Howard (his choice). Just another thought.

No. "We" can't. And neither can the Lakers.

Kobe makes 27.8 million in 2012-13 and Pau makes 19 million. Even ignoring the guaranteed salaries to Blake and Walton, the team option salary to Odom, and the player option salaries to Artest and Fisher, the Lakers STILL wouldn't have any cap room to make a max offer to Dwight Howard.

let me restate that to make it clear.

If the Lakers dumped off EVERY OTHER PLAYER except Kobe and Pau for expiring salary, they STILL wouldn't have enough to make a max offer to Dwight Howard.

If the Lakers want to sign Howard, then either Kobe or Pau has to go, plus Bynum plus most of the current other players.

On the other hand, if they want to TRADE for Howard (where Orlando gets one or two big salaried players instead of getting nothing), then that might be possible. Pau for Howard would probably work. If they trade Bynum for Melo, then Melo for Howard would probably work. Or it could be Bynum plus fillers.

But the only way Orlando would be willing to take Bynum plus fillers is if Bynum stayed healthy and played well enough to be value that they'd be getting back for Howard. And if Bynum stays healthy and plays at that level, then the Lakers would probably rather keep Bynum.


Anyone who thinks Carmelo is a good deal is crazy! How is he going to play with Gasol? They both like to shoot outside..This means Pao would play center and you know he gets beat up at that position. Bynum is a perfect fit for this team when he is healthy and I think he will be healthy all year. Until the Lakers lose the championship, then you think about changing the lineup. We havent lost with Bynum in the lineup! Why would you want to mess that up?


Anyone who thinks Carmelo is a good deal is crazy! How is he going to play with Gasol? They both like to shoot outside..This means Pao would play center and you know he gets beat up at that position. Bynum is a perfect fit for this team when he is healthy and I think he will be healthy all year. Until the Lakers lose the championship, then you think about changing the lineup. We havent lost with Bynum in the lineup! Why would you want to mess that up?


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