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Caught in the Web: Reaction to Andrew Bynum-Carmelo Anthony trade talk

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--The Times' Mike Bresnahan reports that the Lakers wouldn't deal Andrew Bynum for Carmelo Anthony. Bresnahan also reports that the Lakers declined to continue what he called "an informal discussion of Anthony for Pau Gasol."

--In what appears to be point-counterpoint columns, The Times' Bill Plaschke argues that the Lakers should trade Bynum for Melo, while The Times' T.J. Simers maintains that the Lakers should keep Bynum. Simers also talks to Lakers Coach Phil Jackson, who explains why Bynum's size will help the team, especially during the playoffs.

--The New York Times' Howard Beck says that the Lakers dealing Bynum "seems foolish."

--The New York Post's Marc Berman reports that the Knicks and Timberwolves are waiting for the Denver Nuggets to make a deal involving Melo.

--Citing unnamed sources, ESPN The Magazine's Chris Broussard and Ric Bucher, ESPN Los Angeles' Dave McMenamin and ESPN New York's Ian Begley report the following nuggets: The Lakers and Nuggets have had preliminary discussions about a trade that would send Bynum to Denver for Anthony but that no offer has been made; the Lakers' front office is not in full agreement on dealing Bynum; the Lakers contacted the Charlotte Bobcats last week, looking to deal Ron Artest for either Stephen Jackson or Gerald Wallace; Phil Jackson would like to see how the team does for the duration of its seven-game road trip before the Lakers decide to make a trade for Anthony; and Bynum wants to help the Lakers defend their title.

--The Orange County Register's Kevin Ding mentions that the Lakers don't plan to ship out Bynum.

--ESPN.com's John Hollinger breaks down the implications of a Bynum-Melo deal.

--The New York Daily News' Frank Isola reports that the Lakers' vice president of player personnel, Jim Buss, shot down the Anthony-Bynum proposal.

--CBSSports.com debates a Bynum-Anthony deal in a roundtable discussion.

--ESPN Los Angeles' Andy Kamenetzky has some fun with the trade machine.

--ESPN Los Angeles' Brian Kamenetzky sizes up the pros and cons of trading Bynum for Melo.

--The Orange County Register's Mark Whicker believes that the Lakers should pick up Melo.

--Fox Sports' Billy Witz argues that if the Lakers trade Bynum, their chances of three-peating drop severely.

--Silver Screen and Roll's C.A. Clark examines the Kobe Bryant-Gasol dynamic.

--Forum Blue and Gold's Darius Soriano analyzes the effects of a Bynum-Melo deal.

Tweet of the Day: "Wait - so there are games tonight? I thought they were canceled because of the Melo/Laker rumors" -- EricPincus (Hoops World's Eric Pincus)

Reader Comment of the Day:"This year is not the rebuilding year. Any trade that involves large number of players will require them to learn the Triangle in a very short period of time. Why shoot yourself in the foot now when you have a chance to threepeat? Do it after PJ retires, maybe Shaw will take over, maybe not. We don't know if Lakers will run the Triangle next year. It depends on the coach and the players we get in rebuilding for the next Championship era of the Lakers." -- Al Franken

-- Mark Medina
Twitter.com/latmedina

E-mail the Lakers blog at [email protected]

Photo: Andrew Bynum. Credit: Wally Skalij / Los Angeles Times

 
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Is it June yet?


DBDH!

yada yada yada!

@Al Franken. congrats on the RCOTD. I agree wholeheartedly.

While a lot of the focus tomorrow night will be on Ray Allen possibly passing Reggie Miller for 1st place in all-time 3pointers made (he’s only 2 away), Kobe continues to climb the ladder in several categories.


Kobe is just 5 ft attempts behind David Robinson for 13th place and just 2 steals away from passing Eddie Jones (I still wish he’d got a ring) for 23rd place. FYI Stockton is in the stratosphere with more than twice as many steals as Kobe - 3,265 to 1,619.

I can't stand the thought of Melo for Drew. Don't do it, Mitch.

Jared Dudley: Keep hearing talks about Melo to Lakers.. If LA give up Bynum they will regret it.. The reason why the lakers are so hard to beat, SIZE

The wild-eyed enthusiasm for the idea of trading Bynum for Anthony is totally bizarre. Are there people who think that the Lakers' problems this year are primarily lack of offensive firepower? Really?? Are there people who don't think the team often suffers from lack of defensive intensity? Again, really??Apart from any such people, why would this trade seem like a good idea to anybody else? I just don't get it.

AL FTW!!

What you said makes total sense, and I concur. I think that the Bynum for Melo proposed trade is wrong on several levels, but whatever...At least it generated discussion and hits on the blog, right?

Now we just need the guys to go into tomorrow night's game with punishment on their minds. Let there be blood.

I watched the Memphis game again last night - not much else to do when you're dying from a cold LOL! A few things I noticed, which don't surprise me but I'm sure is news to many:

Fish is a very good defender. Sure he got beat off the ball sometimes, but who doesn't? He knows what position to be in and where the help is coming from. He's a bulldog out there and I have no doubt he's a key to our 3peat aspirations.

Pau is a bad man, and he knows it. For all the complaints against him for being soft, he is hardly that. He's got a lot of fire to go with his mad skilz. Him and Drew are also really getting in synch with each other's game. I saw a lot of beautiful interior passing and work by them both.

Socks is a beast. No really. That boy changed so many shots I couldn't keep track of them all. Not to mention a block or 2. He was animated on D for the most part on his own man, and was in superb position for help D almost every time. He and Pau really seem to like each other, so important for team chemistry, and their game is really coming together.

Lamar. This man is amazing. A couple of mistakes here and there that people point to really do not paint the picture of who LO is out there on the court. He is almost always in the right place at the right time. His defense - especially on the weak side, helping out - is spot on. That one stuff on MGasol was crazy good! He's unselfish to a fault sometimes, sure. But he is so talented, and so beloved by his teammates, he's another key to our success this year. As he has been the last couple.

Ron Artest is everything you could want in a defensive player and more. His hands were everywhere. His toughness was unmatched. His focus was purely in the game. Some point to his missed FT's after he got clocked by MGasol as proof he was all in his head and emotional and couldn't control himself blah blah blah. Not the case. His nose and mouth were still bleeding and his eyes were watering from the pain. Besides, it's not like he bricked them. They just rimmed out. Whatever. He was making some great offensive decisions for the most part, and I loved the total package he put out there. That's the RonRon we'll see in the PO's. I have no doubt. And he'll make those key plays again that will seal the deal in a game, or even a series. Ron is a bad man!

Kobe's Kobe. He was pushing tempo, pushing the defense, forcing the issue, making plays for his teammates.... everything. Sure he had some bad TO's but whatever. They didn't appear to be because of his fingers, so I'll take that as a great sign. I never worry about Kobe having the will or talent to win. He does. I'm so glad he's on our side. Nothing scarier for the opposition than seeing the Black Mamba coming down the court LOL!

Anyhoo.... Just gonna try to stay alive here at work today. Got my kleenex and emergenC. What else do I need? Except maybe a game, but I guess that'll wait until tomorrow! Have a great day everyone.

GO LAKERS!!
Let the hunt for 6 begin - DFish
Nothing but another title will suffice - KBryant
Nobody destroys Ron Artest - RArtest
WE GOT THIS - justa

@Lrob,

. FYI Stockton is in the stratosphere with more than twice as many steals as Kobe - 3,265 to 1,619.

Posted by: LRob | February 09, 2011 at 08:17 AM

For your information-- Kobe Demolishes Stockton in PPG, Total points, and most importantly Rings(5 - 0)!

i hope they do trade melo for bynum, and artest for gerald wallace, anyways they will still have pau and lamar. hope it does happen :)

For your information-- Kobe Demolishes Stockton in PPG, Total points, and most importantly Rings(5 - 0)!


Posted by: Mr. Laker | February 09, 2011 at 08:45 AM

That's a fact as well. I wouldn't take anything away from John Stockton, Mr.Laker, he was an amazing defender.

Has 30% percent more steals than #2 Michael Jordan

Has 5 of the 6 greatest assists seasons in Nba History

Widely considered the toughest and most hated player to go against, his physical play was special for a guy from Gonzaga.

Considered the 'perfect' pick 'n' roll Point Guard in Basketball history by a lot of renowned opinions.

Mr. Laker, so what if he has no rings, most players don't.

Dan Marino never won a title, yet, is considered one of the greatest at the position.

I'm all for opinions, just if you're going to disrespect John Stockton, I feel it only right to counter your hatorade.

Been waiting for 6 years for Bynum to develop into an NBA player. He is a long ways away. Watched Bynum play against Memphis. He was his usual self. He missed 6 shots right under the basket. MIssed !! He cannot jump, his free throw shooting is terrible, he plays no defense, he cannot catch the ball, his basketball IQ is zero, He has lots of turn overs. What else is there ?? Bynum is a total loss and waiting another 3 years for his to develop is nonsense. He's had 6 years to develop and he is a loss. Melo would come in and make the Lakers a contender again. Let's all watch the Boston game on Thursday and Orlando game on Sunday. Action speaks louder than those who think Bynum is a savior for the Lakers. Trade him now !!!

andrew is good but he always gets hurt .melo is more than good hes a beast, i cant imagine him and kobe and pau together.. :) so i hoppe that melo does come to lakers

Justa in the house bringing us back to reality. THANK YOU!
I loved your replay analysis. I should have done the same last night instead of watching Tabitha.

I am missing game day! Cheers - PLG

@Justa - Good post. Get better.

@Mr. Laker - just stating facts. That's no knock on Kobe. His place is secure.

SOMETIMES THE GRASS ALWAYS SEEM GREENER ON THE OPPOSITE SIDE OF THE FENCE. WHILE THIS TRADE LOOKS VERY TEMPTING. THIS EPISODE MIGHT BE JUST THE RIGHT FORMULA TO SHAPE NOT ON LY BYNUM, BUT THE LAKERS UP AS WELL. I WOULD KEEP BYNUM AND GO WITH WHAT WE GOT. ONE THING NO ONE IS ADDRESSING, E CAUSE WE ALL LOVE PHIL JACKSON VERY MUCH, BUT I THINK THE ATTITUDE OF THE COACH IS DICTATING THE ATTITUDE OF THE PLAYERS. WHEN A COACH SAYS, THAT HE'S JUST WAITING FOR THE PLAYOFFS AND THAT'S, WHAT REALLY COUNTS. THE TEAM CAN PERCIEVE THIS AS A CRUISE STATEMENT. THE FIRE THAT PHIL USUALLY HAS IS NOT THERE AND HE IN MY OPINION SEEMS TO BE SITTING BACK WAITING TO WIN A CHAMPIONSHIP AND RETIRE. UN FORTUNATELY THIS YEAR, THE WESTERN CONFERENCE, NOT TO MENTION THE EASTERN CONFERENCE IS MUCH TOUGHER AND KOBE AND AT TIMES ODOM SEEMS TO BE THE ONLY TWO WHOSE MIND REALLY SEEM TO BE IN THE GAME. AS FOR KOBE I HAVENT SEEN A BETTER PLAYER WHO I WOULD WANT TO HAVE MY BACK. IN OVER FOURTY FIVE YEARS OF WATCHING SPORTS. HE'S THE MOST COMPETITIVE PLAYER I'VE EVER SEEN. KOBE, KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK, HOPEFULLY THAT ENTHUSIASM WILL BECOME CON TAGIOUS. PSALMS 100

I wonder how Artest is feeling these days knowing that the Lakers were willing to deal him. That's gotta suck for him.

Here’s hoping the Lakers keep the current team in tact and Mitch tells all trade offers….No Can Do.


Hall & Oates – I Can’t Go For That (#1 Pop and R&B in 82)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccenFp_3kq8

Fans,
Before you make any suggestion for the trade, start to do some research about the salary of players in the trade.

Denver players:
Carmelo : 17m(million) (20k+ next year)
Nene(C ): 11m+
Chris (FC/C ): 3.9m (6-10 height)
Chauncey (G): 13m

Lakers players:
Andrew (C) : 13.8m
Fisher (G): 3.7m
Ron (SF): 6.3m
Steve (G): 4m
Luke (SF): 5.2m

If Buss is not willing to pay more luxury tax, to me the trade will never happen. If the trade only involves one to one, Carmelo for Andrew, Lakers have to pay 3millon more (this does not count the luxury tax and ½ season). Who will back up Pau as C, because he could not handle Celtics centers: Perkin and Shaq in the final.

I want to hear different views of the trade with the realistic numbers.


@LROB... “Now I have 3 questions for you...
1. Why do you think the other coaches in the western conference voted Pau to the all-star team?
2.Why do you think Phil prefers the combo of Gasol/Odom to close games?
3. What do you know about Pau’s international accomplishments?
...................................................
1. I think they voted for Pau because he is a better all-around player at this point in his career than Drew and because Drew missed the first month and a half of the season. On the other hand, voting for Pau as the center for an all-star game is far different than picking which player is a better fit as center for a championship team. Frankly, Pau is only the second best center on the Laker.
...
2. Pau is a veteran player and Phil always prefers veteran players over younger players. Pau is also more mobile in defending the pick and roll plays that many teams run as part of their end game and Andrew is still not fully recovered from his knee surgery. The problem, which we saw recently in the last second loss to the Spurs, is that when Drew is not in the game, our interior defense suffers. As Drew gets fully healthy, I expect him to begin to close out games depending upon the matchups.
...
3. Pau is definitely a very accomplished and respected international player. His big advantage over Drew at this point of their careers is that he has played ten times as much competitive basketball. His big disadvantage over Drew in my opinion is his natural lack of aggression and tendency to shy away from physical contact. You ridicule my comments about Drew being more of an alpha dog, but the reality is that Pau will never be the #1 option for a championship team, even in the Olympics.
.....................................................
I find it amusing that all the pro-Pau anti-Bynum blog analysts are now trumping all of the same reasons why I proposed a Pau for Melo trade as their justification for a Drew-Melo trade. What they refuse to acknowledge is that their primary reason for not trading Pau for Melo – namely breaking up the Lakers dominant 4/5 rotation – is even more compelling a reason when you are talking about a Drew for Melo trade because we have already seen that Pau cannot hold up as our starting center.
...
Bottom line, as I have always said, I will support whatever move the Lakers make with respect to Melo. If they do decide to trade Drew, I will support that decision 100% because I believe in our front office and their inside knowledge and insight to make the right decision. As of now, I think that decision has been made pretty clear: the Lakers will NOT trade Andrew Bynum for Melo. At any rate, nothing I say is going to change your mind on this issue so let’s just agree to disagree.
.....................................................
TOM

Dude...Those that looked into Kareem's eyes, he look and played EXPRESSIONLESS and killed you with the Sky Hook, over and over without any EMOTION.

Posted by: G.Money | February 09, 2011 at 06:02 AM

Dude, you answered to yourself..

Kareem was so technically perfect, with his sky hook, that he didn't need to show expression. Could you say the same about Bynum's technical skills?
Again, when you're 32, you have to save your energy just for the play, but when you're 23..

@Lroby,

That's a fact as well. I wouldn't take anything away from John Stockton, Mr.Laker, he was an amazing defender.
Has 30% percent more steals than #2 Michael Jordan
Has 5 of the 6 greatest assists seasons in Nba History
Widely considered the toughest and most hated player to go against, his physical play was special for a guy from Gonzaga.
Considered the 'perfect' pick 'n' roll Point Guard in Basketball history by a lot of renowned opinions.
Mr. Laker, so what if he has no rings, most players don't.
Dan Marino never won a title, yet, is considered one of the greatest at the position.
I'm all for opinions, just if you're going to disrespect John Stockton, I feel it only right to counter your hatorade.

Posted by: sean | February 09, 2011 at 08:55 AM


Blah, Blah, Blah,

I never disrespected the Pasty white guy in short shorts,

All I'm saying if your going to throw out stats,
Don't forget to go by ALL the all-time stats and you will find the name of one
Kobe Bean Bryant in nearly every category,
Something you can't say about Pasty!

Kobe complete all-around,

Pasty in short shorts mainly one-dimensional Passer!


@CCX... “David, if you think that Bynum is only a 'very good role player' - well just the fact that the Nuggets would entertain essentially a Bynum for 'Melo swap shows just how much value he has. The Nuggets aren't targeting any of those other guys chosen below Bynum in the draft - so if you look at it, Jimmy's 'pet-toy' already has shown him to be a better judge of talent than essentially all of his fellow GM's - at least the one time he was deeply involved in the Lakers draft selection.”
...
Well said as usual, Mike. You have perfectly targeted the inherent inconsistency and contradiction consistently displayed by the fans who refuse to appreciate what Andrew Bynum brings to this team or Jim Buss’ great move to draft Andrew Bynum as their only lottery pick in the last 10 years.
...
TOM

Why do people make things so complicated? The days of having a dominant center influence games are long over. The best center in the game is Dwight Howard, and his team consistently struggles in the post season. Yao Ming could never move his Rockets to the finals. Even Shaq couldn't do it without superstar guards on his team. Players today are too big and physical to be shut down by a big center, and this has been proven over and over again. So what's with all stupid talk about keeping Bynum for defensive purposes? USE SOME DAMNED COMMON SENSE!

Melo is a much better player than Bynum, and that is not debatable on any level. Bynum isn't a defensive specialist. He's never made a defensive first or second team, to my knowledge. He gets in foul trouble more than anything else. Just because he's big, doesn't mean he's an impact player. Players like Wade, Pierce and Lebron can just go around, or into him, and draw the foul. Bynum's inside presence is purely a myth.

His scoring is also subpar, he's not an assist man, and he's injury prone.

Why is this so complicated?

Employ team defense, use Theo more effectively, and outscore the other damned team with Melo's offense, which is more consistent than Kobe's.

This trade should have already been executed. Jerry is a damned fool for letting his spoiled loser of a son mess this up.

For your information-- Kobe Demolishes Stockton in PPG, Total points, and most importantly Rings(5 - 0)!


Posted by: Mr. Laker | February 09, 2011 at 08:45 AM

Blah, Blah, Blah,

I never disrespected the Pasty white guy in short shorts,

Posted by: Mr. Laker | February 09, 2011 at 09:24 AM

Not to make too big a point on it, but yes, you did disrespect his game.

Why throw out he hasn't won any chips and Kobe's won 5. You put an exclamation point on that statement Mr.Laker, I'm not blind, brother.
That's clearly a sign of disrespect, like Stockton, doesn't compare to Kobe, not only is it disrespect on your part, with that blah, blah, blah, you're also being dismissive of his game entirely.

Pasty white guy, is definitely disrespectful. You're entitled to your opinion, even if you're wrong about Stockton

LTLF,

"And if Drew playing extra hard for a few helps the Lakers gets wins in Boston, New York, and Orlando the next three games, then all talk of trade will die and the big story on ESPN will be "THE LAKERS ARE BACK!"

********
When there's smoke, it's logical that there may be some fire somewhere. This is the reason why ordinary fans got into quandary on the Melo sweepstakes. They are not too sure with what Al Franken said: (btw, congratulations to RCOTD) "Why shoot yourself in the foot now when you have a chance to three-peat?" Three peat is in danger after losing to Heat on Christmas Day, to the most hated Celtics, to WC leader Spurs, to the Thuggets and to Cuban's team...where's the machismo from the b2b Champs? where's the Laker pride in representing the passionate Hollywood fans who are willing to spend a fortune just to cheer for the hometeam? Absolutely, non existing this year while we hear lot of barbs, bluffs and brag for playoffs time during interviews after a miserable loss. Unfortunately, there's no meat available to show off at this time. A loss is a loss even if you describe like the fragrance of a rose, it is still a loss.

With regards to Drew, it's easy to digest why fans entertain in trading the pupil of Kareem? He's the big behemoth that LakerTom saw in the future through his tunnel vision. Easily, we should embrace a B-2 bomber with wide winged span that could easily destroy a city in just a half day travel anywhere in the world. However, the Laker nation is worried with this B-2 bummer, there's preponderance of oil leak, defective axle and ball joints and there are times he could not even land with two feet on the ground. He could carry a bunny but could not play a straight 82 games season nor play at the crucial 4th quarter. We are embarrassed few weeks ago by leprechauns on the first game of the season. Every time a leprechaun wins against a Laker, the chatter never ends. You always imagined the grin of Bill Russell, the smokin' Red Aeurbach, the 131, it is an incessant noise! When it comes to Boston Celtics, everyone is united with one voice-you can't be defeated by a Celtic. As such, the ordinary fans wanted a sure shot on Melo who may be a F-18, a mere 737 passenger plane but always reliable at all times. It flies longer from coast to coast but frequent enough that everyone is familiar with its schedule.

Therefore, the blog exercise yesterday sends a loud message to Andrew and to his Lord Protectorate, Jimbo. The expectation from the Laker nation is high and humongous, can he carry it in his shoulder like what he did to the Playboy bunny on his birthday?

@Justa
Great post, allthough I would do the Melo for Drew deal.
Get better!

@LRob
Thanks for the Kobe milestone update.
Even though I can get behind the proposed Melo trade, I will continue the theme with the marvellous Shatner and Rollins:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-eJQ1mTVzA

Plashke summed up my exact sentiments in a slightly better way than I did:
http://www.latimes.com/sports/basketball/nba/lakers/la-sp-plaschke-20110209-14,0,6025845.column


@CCX... “LRob: I just want to say, despite the legions of cheerleaders on the blog cheering you on, I hope you are as willing to zealously tackle those others on the blog with which you take offense to.

LakerTom makes no bones what he feels, he doesn't sugarcoat things. He specifically says "I contend trading Pau rather than Drew would make the Lakers a younger, tougher, less expensive, and more physical team that plays better defense and matches up better with Boston." What more needs to be asked or said? That is how he feels. He follows up his argument with "Anyway, you have your opinion and I have mine. Let’s just agree to disagree and see what happens."

Seems like you are spurred on by the masses, trying to pin down Tom with your points.

Eerily reminiscent of a certain other blogger, even down the the stylistic approach you are using.

It's one thing to call-out Tom for the way you feel he is being heavy-handed in his criticism towards Pau as compared to Drew - a point you already have made. It's quite another to go overboard in your persistence to try and color him, as you are doing.

We all have brains, we don't need to be manipulated into thinking one way or another. A simple "I think you're being unfair to Pau" might have sufficed, but instead look what it's coming to...”
......................................
Thanks for having my back, Mike. I seriously do not understand why LRob has suddenly become so obsessed with my posts. Frankly, I preferred Hobbitmage’s often bewildering counters to LRob’s politically correct but somehow demeaning comments. Some bloggers seem to take offense at any statement with which they do not agree and seem to want to make sure that everybody falls in line with the blog-sync-think. Well, frankly, my objective with my posts is not to parrot the same tied thoughts and opinions du jour but to think outside the box, which is why I first raised the concept of trading Pau for Melo. Considering the unusual comments from Mitch and Phil about possible trades, I don’t think I was alone at looking at possible ways to make this team better and extend its championship window. Nor do I think I was alone with my position not to trade Andrew Bynum.
.......................................
TOM

People really need to get real.

No trade. This is our team and they're pretty good. We threepeat, give Phil a proper send off and worry about this in the off season.

Carmelo is not the successor to Kobe. Not even close. This will not be the last chance to pick up an "elite" player. This is the LAKERS were are talking about. They WANT to play here. These cats are waiting for Kobe to retire so they can take his spot in the Lakers pantheon.

People keep talking about Bynum's fault but no one ever thinks about why the Nuggets are all but certain Melo is not the guy to put their team over the top. Why are we ready to put this season in peril?

Plus, the money doesn't work out. That, evenutally, comes into play.

A Laker fan.

@yellofever - I can't speak on behalf of another reporter's work, but ESPN doesn't just make stuff up. They may have been guilty of just over saturating the story. But reading the story itself, isn't really anything to dispute. All it said that Denver talked to them about trading Melo for Bynum in preliminary discussions. The Lakers shot it down on the premise that they'd want to trade Bynum. All sources have different agendas, the latest seeming to be that it would create leverage with New York but if the information is accurate, it's accurate.

Melo for Bynum is CRAZY talk. We'd being giving up post presence, field goal percentage, size, intimidation, DEFENSE and a host of intangibles for a prolific scorer who plays NO DEFENSE! This is crazy talk. HARD WORK, MUSCLE, and HEART wins CHAMPIONSHIPS. Not Melo! A deal for Melo only makes sense if GASOL is the one being traded and we retain a BIG man in the deal.

Our only problem this year is the BABY-SOFT play of GASOL, the wandering soul of ARTEST, and the abuse opposing point guards inflict on FISHER. These are the Lakers most glaring LIABILITY'S.

GASOL and ARTEST/FISHER for:

Melo and NENE
Deng and NOAH
ALDRIDGE and Mathews
SMITH, HORFORD, Crawford
LOPEZ, Favors, and HARRIS
GRANGER and Foster/Collison
WEST and Ariza
BOGUT, MOUTE, Maggette

Why is this so complicated?

Posted by: Laker Analyst | February 09, 2011 at 09:31 AM
====

For a variety of reasons, and no one has the answer. If your read Plaschke and Simers today, the two arguments are laid out beautifully and both have merit.

This is a team game and as much as people still don't want to accept it, it is STILL a big man's game until proven otherwise. This is why the only point guards of any note to win a championship since Isaiah Thomas are Tony Parker and Chauncey Billups. But you better believe that they had superb defensive big men clogging the lane which is the REAL reason they won those championships.

There are 30 teams in the NBA. Only 1 of those teams has won the Larry O'Brien trophy the last two seasons. Andrew Bynum was the starting center of those 2 teams. It is still a big man's game, and he's the Lakers biggest man. He gives the Lakers a 48 mpg 4-5 combination that is fresh, strong, talented and therefore wears their opponents down in a 7 games series. No other NBA team boasts this and that is precisely why the Lakers are looking to three-peat this season. The Lakers hold their opponents to a low fg%, which is by far the most important team statistic and the main reason is their length in the middle. It translates into championships.

THAT is why it is so complicated.


From Mike Bresnahan’s article:
....................
“There have been talks between the Lakers and Nuggets. In fact, the Lakers declined to continue an informal discussion of Anthony for Pau Gasol, opting to keep the All-Star that helped them win consecutive championships instead of potentially bringing aboard a different one, though there was never anything officially on the table.”
....................
This is the first media comment that confirmed that the Lakers actually considered the possibility of trading Pau for Melo and came to the exact same decision when considering trading Drew for Melo. Ironically, the reasons for both decisions were the same – the Lakers did not want to break up the dominant height and length advantage that their Drew/Pau/Lamar 4/5 combo gives them.
....................
TOM

"Three peat is in danger after losing to Heat on Christmas Day, to the most hated Celtics, to WC leader Spurs, to the Thuggets and to Cuban's team...where's the machismo from the b2b Champs?"
====

We'll find out in the playoffs. This is the practice season.

@Mark Medina- well put Mark. They don't make stuff up, sometimes though, as outsiders, we see that they push the envelope between perception and reality. And being we live in a fishbowl of media coverage, social networking, excetera, the space between perception and reality is the truth and usually nowadays, the truth takes a backseat to opinions. ESPN doesn't make things up, but they are guilty of hamming it up to death on these sorts of things. Good, bad or indifferent.

I am pumped! Really to see a motivated Bynum! What will this kid show us now that there is a fire lit under his ..... If he performs like we all expect from a early 20's, 7 foot 290, condor like wing span player, than we could be in for a treat! This road trip could send a message to the other contenders if drew handles his biz and we play like champions. The other side of this is equation is drew could feel and break under the pressure, give us an un-athletic, ref complaining, constant foul trouble, tired of running down court center who will show us we need to get better(insert Melo). We are bout to find out! Side note: there are other trade options that are intriguing as well. Though I cant stand stephen jackson winning trumps everything and his game would upgrade this team, also hearing gerald wallace(though that seems more of a pipe dream)

After all the posts above, I agree with one thing ENTIRELY:

I too, wish Eddie Jones had at least one championship ring. He kept me afloat after Magic, and interested before Shobe and Co.

Thank you, Eddie Jones. We all miss you terribly.


DBDH!

How many times was Lamar on the trading block? Those that were calling for his trade, would you do it now? And Lamar's left shoulder was injury prone for more than a few seasons...

Who in their right mind wuld break up the core of a two-time defending championship team in mid-season? No major trades will occur.

Unlike the trolls, Dr. Buss and Mitch Kupchak aren't idiots (although a few years back these same trolls were calling them that and calling for Mitch's head.

It's a fact that The word "defend" is a major part of "Defending Champs defending their Title"! Artest and Bynum are major parts of that D! Melo isn't a lockdown defender.

Last season the Lakers won the title. They averaged 101.7 points per game and gave up 97.0 per game. +4.7 differential.

2008-2009 season they won the title averaging 106.9 ppg and allowing 99.3 ppg. +7.6 differential.

This season they haven't started to play their best D and yet they are allowing 96.4 ppg and scoring 103.1 ppg. +6.7 differential.

Again, NO ONE IN THEIR RIGHT MIND DEALS THE CORE OF THIS TEAM AWAY!

I'm gone until after the trade deadline. Not worth getting carpal tunnel over this top

Last Sentence should've read: " Not worth getting carpal tunnel over this topic of conversation."

Later all...

I LOVE Pincus' tweet. Hilarious.

LOOKING FROM DENVER NUGGETS STANDPOINT.


I want Melo too for the Lakers. BUT after several thoughts,


If Bynum goes to Nuggets, instantly they become an elite team in the playoffs, ready to contend, they are not now with Carmelo.


Playoffs is about bigs and size, per Phil Jackson 11 RINGS, Nuggets will have the BEST BIG MAN TANDEM in BYNUM AND NENE. still has a veteran PG MR big shot BIllups and two very good shooting gurads in Affalo and JR Smith, another young speedy point gurad in TY Lawson, if Kmart and Andersen gets healthy, the NUGGETS ARE MUCH BETTER SUITED TEAM IN THE PLAYOFFS with Bynum than Carmelo.


Nuggets 2011 NBA FINALS CHAMPIONS!


Bynum/Nene/Andersen
Nene/Kmart
Harrington/Affalo
Affalo/JR Smith
Billups/Lawson


That's too much SIZE and TOUGHNESS for the Lakers to handle inside. Lakers will loose to Nuggets in the playoffs. Gasol and Odom's softness and lack of size in the frontline will be EXPOSED. If they can pass the Nuggets, Lakers will be equal only to Spurs and Heat. Boston will trump the Lakers like it was 2008 with SHAQ and PERKINS guarding Gasol inside, GOODLUCK. KG and Baby DAVIS, manhadling Odom.


How does the Lakers STOP BYNUM when he gets the ball down low with TWO HANDS ready to DUNK. Gasol will be in foul trouble then what does the Lakers have?


Shaq will get Gasol in foul trouble so easy, then what?


Can Kobe guard Shaq and Bynum down low?


@LRob and DBDH

Eddie was my favorite player from that era and I was so depressed when I heard that he was traded. He was so smooth gliding to the rim while the defenders seemed to be suspended in slow motion. He was also one of the best two way players in the game- a tough defender who wouldn't back down to anyone.


@LBROB
....................
“There have been talks between the Lakers and Nuggets. In fact, the Lakers declined to continue an informal discussion of Anthony for Pau Gasol, opting to keep the All-Star that helped them win consecutive championships instead of potentially bringing aboard a different one, though there was never anything officially on the table.”
....................
Would you also characterize the Lakers as being unappreciative and disrespectful of Pau Gasol’s value and contribution to the team to discuss trading him for Melo after a “bad stretch” of games this season? Here’s the point I want to make. Yes, I did heavily criticize Pau for how he was playing and blamed a good deal of the Lakers struggles on his play, which is what triggered my proposal to trade him for Melo, a proposal that most bloggers immediately railed against.
...
The very next day, however, Mitch Kupchak came out and that because the team was playing so poorly, he would be open to considering a trade. Now it comes out that among the trades he had considered (and rejected) was a trade of Pau Gasol for Melo. You have characterized my proposal to trade Pau for Melo as being unappreciative and disrespectful of Pau Gasol. It seems like Mitch Kupchak was then also being unappreciative and disrespectful of Pau to talk about trading him.
....................
TOM

>>> Are there people who think that the Lakers' problems this year are primarily
>>>lack of offensive firepower?

Hello! McFly!!!

vs Miami - Lakers scored 80 points on 40% shooting

vs San Antonio in Dec - Lakers scored 82 points on 35% shooting

vs Boston - Lakers scored 96 points on 44% shooting

vs San Antonio recently - Lakers scored 88 points on 42% shooting.

So yes, against the good teams the Lakers do have a bit of a problem scoring. Adding a more reliable go-to guy than Bynum wouldn't hurt in that department.

The very next day, however, Mitch Kupchak came out and that because the team was playing so poorly, he would be open to considering a trade. Now it comes out that among the trades he had considered (and rejected) was a trade of Pau Gasol for Melo. You have characterized my proposal to trade Pau for Melo as being unappreciative and disrespectful of Pau Gasol. It seems like Mitch Kupchak was then also being unappreciative and disrespectful of Pau to talk about trading him.
....................
TOM

Posted by: LakerTom | February 09, 2011 at 10:15 AM

Wait, who offered or asked for Pau and who refused? Denver asked for Pau and Lakers said no or did Lakers say Pau and Denver said no?

there are good points on both sides of the issue whether this trade helps the lakers. i feel it's worth it. but, can't we all agree that some kind of move if necessary, if even for a outside shooter?

Magia32 - actually, the way I heard it through the "grapevine" of people I know associated with the situation, is that Enver threw out a trade possibility with Pau and Melo as the key players (and three other players besides them total). The Lakers promptly turned it down, but they did casually discuss the idea of replacing Drew with Pau in that trade, but Jimmy was against it, and so was Doctor Buss (not sure why he was, but he's backin' his son on this), though he did not throw it out entirely, and discussed it with the rest of the FO and Phil.

Oh, and congrats to Al on the Friedman.

Like LBJ, Wade and Bosh is Melo, once they're gone they are gone. If Drew gets hurt, well, we are in a world of trouble. How many full seasons has he played? Read yesterdays Plascke (sp) article about Drew, dare I say. Either way I am on the Laker train, whether it makes a stop or two on the way or not!

Carmelo Anthony would be worth it if we trade Bynum, Gasol, or Lamar. Carmelo is that good. We need to find a way to make this happen.

Go Lakers!
Go Aztecs!

63,
Gotcha and thanks.

There is one change I would like to see. More pick n roll with Kobe and Pau/Bynum and lil less Tri.

Also I would like to see some actual plays called out for Artest, more than few times a game.
Also I would like to see a lot less minutes for Fisher, but you guys already know that.

I can't believe it but I agree with Plaschke on something. First I like Bynum. Second Jim Buss made a great draft pick. It was one of the few times in the last 50 years that the Lakers missed the playoffs, a rare, somewhat high their own pick and he went out and made it count. Now it can help us get Melo.

Any player can play with Kobe as long as they want to win and I believe Melo does. Of course if Bynum has staid healthy no discussion, but he hasn't. Maybe he will. I hope Denver thinks the risk is worth it. Sometimes 7 footers just don't have durability, sometimes they do. But Bynum doesn't seem to have 'it'. It is probably just a wild rumor, but I would do it, if it were true.

Boston could be a problem, but everyone else it helps with. And Shaq is just big now. Old and slow. Find some big body to bang on him and I like our match up with Melo against the Celtics as well.

Why is there so much concern about Shaq (barely can play two games in a row) and Perk (really? Perk?)? Very good chance they won't be in the Finals. I am very mixed on Drew for Melo trade. You know that fence that runs down the middle, well I'm on it, ha, ha. I really like what I think Andrew could bring, but rarely have I seen him have a dominate game, much less against a good Center.

LT:

You know I love you, man. But I gotta say this in Pau's defense:

Pau bodied up against some pretty damn good big men during the 2009 playoffs. And, yes, he outplayed Dwight Howard. OUTPLAYED DWIGHT HOWARD.

So, come on... take off your Bynum glasses for just a moment, and give Pau his due praise. The man is skilled.

Go Lake Show!

LT:

You know I love you, man. But I gotta say this in Pau's defense:

Pau bodied up against some pretty damn good big men during the 2009 playoffs. And, yes, he outplayed Dwight Howard. OUTPLAYED DWIGHT HOWARD.

So, come on... take off your Bynum glasses for just a moment, and give Pau his due praise. The man is skilled.

Go Lake Show!

@LakerTom – The reason I responded to your posts were wavering on Pau. This surprised me (as it did others here that you respect). My biggest point was that Pau is a competitive guy and I believe he’ll bounce back. I thought it was worth a shot to try to convince you of that. Most people that call him “gassy” and make comments like that I feel don’t respect Pau at all so I very seldom respond to them.

The other point I tried to address was asking for clarification on some of the comments you may about Drew. Since that has been such a delicate issue I wanted to remind you that I’ve always been pro-Drew. Anyway, you made your point and I’ve made mine. I don’t know what I said that you felt was demeaning…but so be it.


@mclyne – Shatner…lol.

@DBDH/mclyne – good to remember Eddie and what he did for the Lake Show. Another excellent draft by JW.

If you all want to know what wins Championships, Watch the game 7 4th Q again and see our unbelievable defense!

@sean fair point. Obviously all the talk yesterday on the blog dealt with this scenario. But I hope no one sees it as exploiting a falsehood more so than just the possibility definitely sparks a conversation about Bynum's worth to the team, etc, etc

By the way we have a new post. And for a change, it has nothing to do with the Bynum-Melo situation

I think the chance of a 3peat go down so much more if Odom goes down rather than Bynum.

Kareem was so technically perfect, with his sky hook, that he didn't need to show expression. Could you say the same about Bynum's technical skills?
Again, when you're 32, you have to save your energy just for the play, but when you're 23..

Posted by: Marco64 | February 09, 2011 at 09:23 AM

Dude...Remember Drew came to the Lakers out of high school with just one year of ball. Six years later, he's still developing his game. Give him more time, injuries are part of the game. Can't give up on him to soon, he's only 23.

Players like Melo come along every other year, seven foot center with HUGH upside sides DON'T. He still DEVELOPING maybe baby steps, but he's still making PROGRESS.

I'd like to think that we are good enough, but once you start thinking that is when you get beat. We need to take advantage of this opportunity to get another franchise player we can hand the reigns to as Kobe ages.

Carmelo is on Lebron's level, LeBron and Carmelo have been going at it since high school, with Carmelo usually having the upper hand with his great post game. If we miss this opportunity to get Carmelo, we could be feeling the sting of this for a very long time as the Miami Heat take over the NBA.

This is our chance to make ourselves contenders for the next 8 years, even after Kobe retires. We make this trade, and the beat goes on for the Lakers. We miss out on this trade and our team will have to blow up once Kobe is finished. We'll have to start from the bottom.

I don't believe Andrew Bynum can play 35-40 minutes a game for a season, let alone a career. His body type just wont let him do it. He's long and lanky, and has a big back side, he's heavy. That's a lot of pressure on his knees. And his knees have already had serious injuries.

Mitch has to make this happen.

Go Lakers!
Go Aztecs!

D(erek)J(eter) at 10:35 AM

Best post of the day! Let's take it a few steps further. Watch Game 6, too. Oh, and watch Game 1 against the Thunder. Remember how we finished the practice season 4-7 and looked like crap. Then the PLAYOFF Lakers took the floor and implemented all the things they practiced during the season, dug deep into their championship mettle, and transformed themselves into a beautiful basketball team overnight, thus relieving us jittery fans of all the doubt we had. Then we relaxed in OKC and got beat and the fans and media got jittery again, thus prompting Kobe to say: "What the hell is going on around here. It's 2-2." Then we went back to Staples Center and played our best basketball of the season in Game 5.

But I guess the past is the past and you can only judge the team on how it is playing thus far this season. Yeah right. Not me. The picture is much MUCH bigger than that.

I have a feeling that the next few games will determine whether the Lakers will make a major move or not. It's been well documented that the Lakers haven't faired real well this year against the elite teams. With the logo, Magic and even Mitch indicating that a change could occur, I suspect Laker management is going to assess whether the switch will be flipped for the next few games against elite opponents.

But for the fun of it, I threw a 3-team trade together on the ESPN trade machine which worked.

Lakers get:
Carmelo Anthony
Chris Anderson

Nuggets get:
Andrew Bynum
Gerald Wallace

Bobcats get:
Ron Artest
Al Harrington

Why Lakers make this move: No real need to sell Carmelo. But they get the backup center to Gasol in Chris Anderson. I like Chris's energy off the bench and I especially like his defensive mindset. When Theo gets back from the injured list, we would have two bigs with a defensive mindset. Another reason the Lakers would do this would be to get rid of Artest's bad salary.

Why Nuggets would do this: Get something for Carmelo which is better than the package they are rumored to get from NY. Also, get a quality scorer in Gerald Wallace.

Why Bobcats would do this: They have been rumored to wanting to move either Stepehen Jackson and/or Gerald Wallace for some time now. Bringing in Artest and Al Harrington reunites Stephen Jackson with a couple of folks he had descent success with in Indiana. Besides, Charlotte isn't going anywhere so maybe a shakeup gets the city excited.

I know it's wishful thinking but Carmelo provides a second bonafied scorer that teams have to defend. I understand that Boston has size but a combination of Gasol, Odom, Ratliff and Chris Anderson isn't shabby (from the defensive side). And don't forget about Kobe's ability to play defense as well as Barnes when he gets back.

Thoughts?
dpk

Dude...Trade Ron Ron for Captain Jac, NO BRAINER. Toughness is what your team is lacking.

Mitch also needs to make the Lakers as attractive as possible to the veteran free agents whom he could sign to fill out a roster. These could be guys with championship experience who help us win championships. The PJ Brown's, the Rasheed Wallace's, the James Posey's. Getting Carmelo only makes the Lakers a more attractive place to play.

Go Lakers!


@LROB... We’re fine as far as I am concerned. I respect your basketball knowledge and appreciate your balanced posts. What I found demeaning in your comments was the implication that I was a Pau Gasol basher and that my criticism of Pau was solely to make Drew appear better, which is a position that I will vehemently attack regardless of source because it is patently unfair and wrong. For you to claim that you do not believe me is your right, as it is mine to be offended. This is the first time that I have ever advocated trading Pau Gasol and it has nothing to do with Drew. It had to do with his subpar play and attitude for the first half of this season and the opportunity to obtain a player who could extend the team’s and Kobe’s championship window by several years, a rallying cry now ironically embraced by most of the blog now that it is Drew and not Pau on the block.
...
Since you’re such a fan of the archives, you should go back and see how valiantly I defended Pau against the slurs and defamations from ouchhhhhhhhhhhh and his band of real Pau Gasol bashers. While I have been hard on Pau when he played soft and point blank dislilke his tendency to not challenge penetrating guards because of fear of getting into foul trouble, I have clearly said that at his best he is the top power forward in the league and I would not trade him for any player other than Carmelo Anthony. I also said that if Pau starts to play harder and defend tougher, then I would not make the trade. In the last 3 games, we have seen great improvement in Pau’s attitude. The test in my mind will come Thursday against the Celtics in Boston. It will be a critical game for both Pau and Drew as the basketball world will be focused on the Lakers and Carmelo Anthony. Trust me, I will be rooting for both Pau and Drew to have great games. I seriously wonder if all Lakers fans can say the same thing, especially those who always have Drew in their sights.
...................................
TOM

If the Lakers lose their next 4 games (and really now, I hope they don't), but if it happens I wonder if there might be a change in the Lakers front office (and those in favor of keeping Bynum) approach to this Melo situation.

If I was Mitch I would definetly make this trade. I would ship Bynum's a** out and tell him I'll even pack your bags for you, just get the hell out of LA you knocked knee, injury prone bastard. We have wasted six years on this guy and he continues to have set back after set back. I'll tell you what will happen if we don't make this trade. Bynum is gonna get hurt AGAIN and miss the rest of the season, and we're gonna be kicking ourselves in the a** that we had a chance to get a TOP TEN PLAYER in the league and passed on it for a player as fragile as a piece of glass!!!!!!

Enough with this Melo Drama, it ain't happening, let's get back to reality.

Am I the only one that hopes the Lakers pick up a shooter before the end of the season, like a STEVE NOVAK, or somebody like that?

Lakers lose defense and may gain marginal offense. One ball and 1 Kobe and 1 Melo needing it to play.
Bad trade keep Drew.
The original Justa

dude lets keep the trade talk real..how about Kirk Hinrich or Al thorton or Al Harrington or anybody on that cleveland roster

this article keeps it real with realistic trade options.

http://www.lakersnation.com/players-that-can-be-had-for-lakers-trad-their-5-million-trade-exception/2011/02/09/

If the Lakers don't make this Bynum for Melo trade, it will prove to be the biggest mistake in franchise history.

Make the damned trade.

"Enough with this Melo Drama, it ain't happening, let's get back to reality.

Am I the only one that hopes the Lakers pick up a shooter before the end of the season, like a STEVE NOVAK, or somebody like that?

Posted by: hiphopcop | February 09, 2011 at 11:30 AM "

He was there for the taking but the Spurs signed him.

When completely healthy, the Lakers only have 9 players they can use in an important game. I know the rotations tighten up for the playoffs, but in the case of an injury, they just have too many guys (Ebanks, Caracter, Smith, Ratliff) that they can't really use on the court. I would think that at the least, Smith's spot could be used on a pure shooter.

"Best post of the day! Let's take it a few steps further. Watch Game 6, too. Oh, and watch Game 1 against the Thunder. Remember how we finished the practice season 4-7 and looked like crap. Then the PLAYOFF Lakers took the floor and implemented all the things they practiced during the season, dug deep into their championship mettle, and transformed themselves into a beautiful basketball team overnight, thus relieving us jittery fans of all the doubt we had. Then we relaxed in OKC and got beat and the fans and media got jittery again, thus prompting Kobe to say: "What the hell is going on around here. It's 2-2." Then we went back to Staples Center and played our best basketball of the season in Game 5.

But I guess the past is the past and you can only judge the team on how it is playing thus far this season. Yeah right. Not me. The picture is much MUCH bigger than that.

Posted by: KobeMVP888 | February 09, 2011 at 10:47 AM "

Also included in the big picture is Andrew Bynum not playing in those last 11 games and Kobe missing several of them as well. You're discounting their contributions if you leave that part out.

The Lakers are potentially facing a new dynamic this year. When did the Lakers go up against a team they struggled against during the season and didn't have HCA on their side for the playoffs? When you lose HCA, those pivotal games become a lot harder. I'm not trying to be negative here, I'm just seeing the possibility that this year might be a lot more difficult than previous years.

I'm sick and tired of people saying that the lakers size is a key for us. Yes we have size but there just straight out getting punked. The lakers have allways lacked some toughnes. We need some thug roughneck mentality in the team. Andrew is dameged goods. He's the new Yao. Bynum wont be in the league past 30. Time to get something for him, if we can some how get rid of LUKE WALTON that would be awsome, dude sucks more that a pornstar. With Barnes comeing back, an Arrtest Melo team would have some toughnes. Lets do this f*&k the stats. Face it no home edge this year. To win on the road you got to punk people. Not be punked like we have been all year long. Enough of this not being the real season, it is just not the season that matters the most.

>>>One ball and 1 Kobe and 1 Melo needing it to play.

Have you actually watched any of the recent games? Have you noticed how they sag off of Artest to double team Pau or Kobe or Drew? Have you noticed that it usually works?

If that SF is Carmelo, if they back off of him to double Kobe, then Carmelo scores.

If they stay rooted to Melo, then Kobe (or Pau) goes 1-on-1 and scores.

Kobe and Melo and Pau on the same team is a POSITIVE for the offense, not a negative.

>>>When did the Lakers go up against a team they struggled against during the
>>>season and ...

Oh, you mean like Orlando, who swept the Lakers during the 2008-09 regular season?

>>>...didn't have HCA on their side for the playoffs? When you lose HCA, those
>>>pivotal games become a lot harder. I'm not trying to be negative here,

Oh, you mean like the 1985 Lakers, who didn't have HCA against the Celtics, but still managed to beat them in 6 games?

If the Lakers can sucker Denver into tradeing Melo for Bynum, they should do it. Bynum has been busted up his whole career, and averages about 7 rebounds and 13 points in the years hes been in the leauge. Melo averages 9 and 26, a vast improvement. Besides if Bynum gos down again, which he has in every year since he entered the NBA, no one will touch him after that, and LA wont be able to get an old pair of sneakers for him.


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