Lakers Now

Round-the-Clock Purple and Gold

« Previous Post | Lakers Now Home | Next Post »

Lakers striving to improve ball movement

The problem and the solution are one and the same.

"Move the ball," Lakers forward Lamar Odom summed up when asked what needs to happen to ensure more ball movement.

But if it were that simple,ball movement wouldn't have been an issue in the Lakers' 96-80 loss Christmas Day to the Miami Heat, a game that featured the team shooting 40.5% from the field, Kobe Bryant and Pau Gasol combining for a zero of 11 clip and the entire bench finishing with a seven of 23 mark from field-goal range.

"The ball has to move well for guys to have open shots. Some of it is about confidence and having a semblance of responsibility with the ball," Lakers Coach Phil Jackson said. "A lot of the guys are trying to take it on themselves. The ball doesn't move often enough from one side of the court to the other."

The result: Plenty of statistics by Synergy Sports that illustrated the Lakers' poor offense. Out of the Lakers' 97 offensive plays, 24 of them came on post-ups (seven of 21), 16 of them came on spot-up shots (six of 16) and 14 of them came on isolation (three of 11). The only high percentage plays entailed their plays on cuts (eight of 13) and offensive rebounds (four of seven). The Lakers ran the high screen and roll, a basic play that helps ensure ball movement, only eight times, going three of three from the field when a post play caught a pass after rolling to the basket, going zero of one when a ball handler found an open shot and meeting a stingy Miami defense that effectively neutralized the screen and roll four times.

Usually when the Lakers lack ball movement, it's a code word for the Lakers' post players not getting enough touches. But with Gasol going eight of 17 from the field, including a zero of seven first-quarter clips, Jackson put the blame squarely on El Spaniard. "He has not been responding well as of late with the offensive opportunities," Jackson said of Gasol.

The Lakers' poor ball movement also left them exposed on defense, resulting in Miami's Big 3 in LeBron James, Chris Bosh and Dwyane Wade combining for 59 points.

"Just to get it moving and not to hold it," Odom offered as a solution to ensure better ball movement. "Usually when we do that, our defense plays a lot better and a little more intense. Everyone seems to get involved in the game offensively. It helps our balance on defense."

The way Odom describes it, it appears many of the Lakers' problems would be solved. The solution sounds so simple, but the Lakers are making it increasingly difficult.

--Mark Medina

Twitter.com/latmedina

E-mail the Lakers blog at [email protected]

 
Comments () | Archives (93)

The comments to this entry are closed.

Good ball movement is when the ball moves through the basket and that ain't happening enough lately; 79 and 80 points is a joke, that should be the end of the third quarter point total.

Coach them up, score some damn points and quit pontificating Phil.

Jolly Joe is not so Jolly

We have played the softest schedule in the league; David Stern essentially gave us an extended pre-season/ fall league schedule and we are still barely hanging onto a 4 seed; geeeeeeeeeeeez.

We need home court for the playoffs, we had it kind of fall in our lap for the finals the past two seasons but don't kid yourself we need it to win another title; the referees just don't give you 20 more free throws than your opponent like they did last June in game 7 if you are the road team, without those free throws we would have been watching the Celtics celebrating again; We need to get this figured out NOW!

Ball movement. That's Phil code for "I'm going to play Luke Walton more minutes next game".

What's the over/under on Luke getting in 15 minutes?

Hey LakerTom,

Good to hear form you but gotta disagree with you my friend.
I don't have the same faith in PJ as you do and I will use example of why. A few years back PJ was up against PHx and we were up 3-1. We had a young rookie center named Andrew Bynum when inserted into the game dominated Amare and rest of Suns commanding a double team each time he touched the ball. But PJ would take him out in favor hands of stone Kwame Bron and lost series getting eliminated 4-3. No faith in PJ from me. He calls out players in press calling Vlade a space cadet which no matter what should be locker room talk. He drove Horance Grant away from Bulls and Lakers as Grant put it...he was tired of being PJ's whipping boy.
So nmanaging people not really. Using up and exploiting people is more like it.
Along with the sub patterns and no time outs and things you mentioned are reasons i dislike PJ as a coach but he is an intelligent and charming man otherwise. Lakers deserve better.

Sorry, these guys just don't get it. Regardless of whether or not they beat the Spurs, they still don't get it.

MM, Thanks for the sound. It's very revealing. Lamar seems smug and defensive. Ron is disconnected as always. I could go on and on.

As reluctant as PJ might be to do it, this squad needs a shake-up. They still think they can win based on who they are, not on how they play.

On the previous thread, I proposed benching Gasol and Thriller. No one commented. Either you didn't take me seriously or you thought I was mentally ill, or that I was pulling your chain. I'm not prepared to go along with blog-sync and say that everything will be OK. Nothing short of winning the next 12 games in a row will convince me.

Defending champions, the Lakers are. Champions, as in playing like Champions is a habit born out of commitment, desire, and self-image. These 2010-2011 Lakers are not presenting themselves as Champions in the purest sense of the word. To borrow a phrase from a motion picture you've all seen, they are not worthy. Yet. There's still time, of course. But why wait until the eleventh hour?

Rick,
I'll take it one step further on Artest: trade him now before he implodes and drags the rest of the team down with him. He isn't playing well, Phil is going to zing him in the media with one of his famous "messages through the media" and that will be all we need to start the Artest circus. Get rid of him now.

@hobbit – I thought Pau’s effort in the Miami gave was good, but his production was not. Overall I agree that Artest and Fish are giving a better effort, but they haven’t been as productive. Remember I’m saying this in the context of other deserving to be benched before Pau. Trying hard is great but in the end productivity is more important. For example, take the Collins twin on the Hawks, (btw he would’ve been a good 3rd center for the Lakers). He always plays hard and that has kept him in the league all these years, but his productivity is what it is.


I agree I’m not buying into the Celtic logic from last year. As we saw it did not get them a chip. The research I posted the other day showed that in the last 23 years only one defending champ has repeated as a champ with lower than a 2nd seed and that was the 95 Rockets (see post on 12/24 @ 8:11pm – that was a lot of work on Christmas Eve…lol). I will give this Lakers team the benefit of the doubt and say they can still do it as a #3 seed. And yes the Spurs and Mavs are much better this year. Although, I’m more concerned with Dallas than SA. I just don’t think SA has the size to match up when the games grind down a little in the playoffs.


Again, I say hold tight for a few more weeks. If Drew’s not back in the starting lineup then and/or the team is still underperforming then Phil has to do something. But remember my whole point is to get Pau back at the PF position. Bringing him off the bench will not address that because he’ll probably sub for Drew.

Artest just got torched by LeBron for a triple double, what the french toast is up with that; he is supposed to be our defensive stopper and all he is is a scrub who gets tangled up with the other teams best player and trys to entice him into a scrum on the court; oldest trick in basketball send in a scrub to rough up the other teams best player. Get rid of Artest now

Rick - Great comment. To which everyone may follow: of course Rick is going to get a Friedman award tomorrow. Lamar and Phil seem in a bad mood. Ron was rather defensive for something he even acknowledged - that it was a challenge doing the ring raffle while not stretching himself thin with the Lakers. It's good that the Lakers are upset but no one outside of Kobe is demanding excellence.

Medina, Kobe better look inward first, he didn't shine against the Heat and just got tossed against Milwaukee because the referees had the nerve to call him for charging.

this is going from bad to worse

Forget about this sense of urgency bull c... ; playing down to the opponent, being dis-interested, blah, blah, blah.........we need to make some hoops! and make em now..........79 and 80 points for four freaking quarters of basketball, are you kidding me?

Take out LeBron going 5-6 the rest of Miami was 4-19 on threes; that score could have been ridiculously worse than 16 points, were talking a game 6 Boston 2008 type of rout........Phil better do some coaching up there or it is going to be a Cancun June.

Jolly Joe is not Jolly

Lakers are surprisingly not handling this adversity well. But to see it's going to go from bad to worse is a tad leaping. I wouldn't be surprised Spurs win simply b/c they're good. But as I noted in the morning making fundamental changes is an aggregating effort, which is why Lakers can't feel like they can just flip the switch. They actually tried at first against Miami but then when things weren't working, they folded.

We need HCA, and don't think we don't. Boston tried doing without it last year and they got close but they couldn't get past us in game seven and they were and are better than we are. I'm telling ya we need HCA, you don't get 20 more free throws than the opponent if you are the road team in game 7.

MM,

Was that you that Artest got a little agitated with? He clearly didn't feel like answering questions today and hence a lot of non answers. But when he felt his dedication was being challenged his answers were very clear.

LRob - No I didn't ask Ron those questions. I'm the one that asked him about Kobe talking to the team, why he's surprised the Spurs did well and who the main west contenders are. It was a fair question, but I think Ron was afraid he was being singled out. Ron is one of the hardest workers on the team, but that doesn't mean he can't be distracted in the ring raffle. He actually has acknowledged a few times it's been challenging balancing the two.

MM,

Thanks for the clarity. When Ron was asked about his distraction and Kobe's statement was the only time I felt he was engaged in the interview...all the rest was non-answers.

@Rick – I don’t think benching Pau is the answer. Who are you proposing start in front of him? Like I said in the conversation with Hobbit, there are a few other Lakers more “deserving” imho. We all agree that the Lakers aren’t playing anywhere near championship basketball, but until Bynum is back in the starting lineup I say hold off on any drastic changes like benching an all-star. Now if you want to tinker with Artest or Fish I’m good with that.


I appreciate MM letting us hear the actual interviews. However, I disagree that the interviews prove they don’t get it. At this point I’m only concerned with how they play -- not how good a game they talk (and that includes Kobe...who has only received a minimum amount of criticism from the Heat game despite a poor showing). A lot of questions seemed to be about what Kobe said or did, and Ron and LO clearly didn’t want to go there.

blog sync or Blog sink....

dunno why we need a blog sync, don't we have individual personalities to think clearly on our own. why do we need someone talking for us.

Take charge, do we need to convince a village to cheer for the Lakers, it's fine the sky is not falling...well the sky fell last Sat. on the highest watched b'ball game since 2004. Oh yeah, Lakers will be in the finals because we have the best coach, best player and best team....well last Sat, we're not best of anything & that's reality.

No need to psyche ourselves, we've been Lakers before this blog was created, what we're saying WAKE UP & play ball or else we get our team way, way behind. If you don't want to read negative posts, then just win.

No faith in PJ from me. He calls out players in press calling Vlade a space cadet which no matter what should be locker room talk. He drove Horance Grant away from Bulls and Lakers as Grant put it...he was tired of being PJ's whipping boy. So managing people not really. Using up and exploiting people is more like it. Along with the sub patterns and no time outs and things you mentioned are reasons i dislike PJ as a coach but he is an intelligent and charming man otherwise. Lakers deserve better.
Posted by: JustaLakerFan | December 27, 2010 at 07:40 PM
----------------
JLF - Happy Holidays. How have you been? Any update on the transplant?

I agree wholeheartedly on being against Phil attacking his players in the press. Whether its saying Kobe sabotaged games, Vlade a space cadet...or talking derogatory about LO or Pau - its uncalled for.

However, in the manner of HoGrant remember Phil brought him back to the Lakers to help win the title in 2001 (I believe). So they had to make amends, right? Sorta like Kobe asked for the Lakers to bring Phil back even after PJ said all those disparaging things about him.


You say Phil is an exploiter and he's just using them. I say each party is using the other to get what they want...sorta like the Bill Withers classic. Also, drop a musical selection every once in a while.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3hBYTkI-sE

No need to psyche ourselves, we've been Lakers before this blog was created, what we're saying WAKE UP & play ball or else we get our team way, way behind. If you don't want to read negative posts, then just win.

Posted by: Edwin Gueco | December 27, 2010 at 09:05 PM

-----------------------

True...True!

We need HCA, and don't think we don't. Boston tried doing without it last year and they got close but they couldn't get past us in game seven and they were and are better than we are. I'm telling ya we need HCA, you don't get 20 more free throws than the opponent if you are the road team in game 7.

Posted by: Jolly Joe | December 27, 2010 at 08:32 PM

Forget post of the day ... This is the GOAT!

We need HCA, and don't think we don't. Boston tried doing without it last year and they got close but they couldn't get past us in game seven and they were and are better than we are. I'm telling ya we need HCA, you don't get 20 more free throws than the opponent if you are the road team in game 7.

Posted by: Jolly Joe | December 27, 2010 at 08:32 PM

Forget post of the day ... This is the GOAT!

Posted by: 131-92 | December 27, 2010 at 09:18 PM

-------------------

131 - Yes, you know all about that free throw advantage from gm 7 in 1984 right. What was it something like 50 free throws for the Celts to 20 something for the Lakers. I think Max shot nearly 20 free throws himself that game.

LRob- They'll loose both, LakerNation it's not looking good for you. And when they do, get far FAR away from this blog it's going to be UGLY. AGAIN...just saying.
Posted by: G.Money | December 27, 2010 at 05:24 PM
------------------

G.Money – I appreciate your concern. If its get “ugly” I’ll be right here discussing things with other Lakers faithfuls. You know where to find us. On the other hand you did a little disappearing act earlier when your boys hit the skids…just saying.

LRob- What skids are you talking about?

LRob,

We all know from history that it's difficult to win in Boston because of the ff.: Celtic fans, the active Leprechauns, Refs are afraid of Boston stranglers, the wet court on the side of the Lakers, uneven parque floors on the side of the Lakers, the humid atmosphere coming from the bad breathe of leprechauns and last but the least, the image of Red Aeurbach (as if Chairman Mao is watching you).

If I had a bit more energy, I would probably go back to the archives and cut a paste a bunch of comments from Dec 26, 2009, but frankly I'm just not really that enthusiastic about the whole process, so here is just a link to for everyb0dy to read tomorrow's (or today's, depending on when you read this) 'Mary Worth.'

I suspect it will have about the same relevance next year, or maybe tomorrow, that most of the comments about the Heat game.

http://www.oregonlive.com/comics-kingdom/?feature_id=Mary_Worth

IT IS ALL ABOUT THE LOVE

GO LAKERS!

THE PROBLEM WITH THE DEFENSE IS THE OFFENSE
……………………………………………………………………………………
To simplify the quandary in which we are currently stuck, the problem with the defense is the offense. More bluntly, the Lakers need to get back to running the Triangle Offense with their usual precision and efficiency. That is the key to improving our transition defense and make no mistake, transition is where other teams are going to be attacking the bigger and slower Lakers. It is our Achilles heel.

One of the reasons why I always laugh at the “defense wins” cliché is that it only tells part of the story. Defense and offense are inextricably connected in the game of basketball and the constant switching back and forth creates a continuity of play that you do not have in baseball or football. How teams handle this transition from offense to defense and back often determines whether they win or lose.

Running the Triangle Offense efficiently accomplishes two critical defensive objectives for the Lakers. First, it ensures that they will have proper floor spacing and good position to transition to defense, Second, it gets the players working together as a team, synchronizing their efforts and movements, which is exactly what they need to do in order to rotate properly and play good team defense.

Of course, the players also have to want to play defense as well as offense for the team to succeed. Earlier in the season, even though the Lakers were running their offense with machine-like precision, we were also giving up far too many points and easy baskets. The problem then was not our transition defense but our half court defense, where teams were running layup and dunk drills on us.

With Drew getting healthier every day, our interior defense should be much better going forward. Hopefully, Pau will get out of his funk and start playing defense instead of worrying about his fouls. Phil really understands the dynamic of the game and was right to focus on moving the ball. He knows whether it is offense or defense, you have to have teamwork. The solution is simple: move the ball.

I am sure there will be some who will interpret this as a slight of some form to Kobe but it isn’t. I love Kobe more than any other player in the NBA. I’m actually glad we had a few bad years in retrospect because I saw Kobe score 81 and accomplish so many remarkable things that can never be matched. But I think Kobe knows too that it’s time to play better team ball and less isolation and Kobe ball.
………………………………………………………….
TOM

LakerTom- That was worth reading. Thank you.

LakerTom,

you wrote: To simplify the quandary in which we are currently stuck, the problem with the defense is the offense. More bluntly, the Lakers need to get back to running the Triangle Offense with their usual precision and efficiency. That is the key to improving our transition defense and make no mistake, transition is where other teams are going to be attacking the bigger and slower Lakers. It is our Achilles heel.

One of the reasons why I always laugh at the “defense wins” cliché is that it only tells part of the story. Defense and offense are inextricably connected in the game of basketball and the constant switching back and forth creates a continuity of play that you do not have in baseball or football. How teams handle this transition from offense to defense and back often determines whether they win or lose.

my response: Kobe Bryant does not agree with you. I don't think Phil
Jackson agrees with you. I also don't think that Bill Russell agrees with
you. However, carry on as you need to.

LRob,

There's no birthright that makes a player a starter on the Los Angeles Lakers. I can make an argument for shaking things up by starting Bynum at C, Lamar at PF, Walton at SF, along with Kobe and Fish. If Phil wants ball movement, Odom and Walton would be the two top candidates to make it happen. Would I do this for the entire rest of the season? Of course not. But would I get Pau's and Thriller's attention? You bet I would.

MM,

Thanks for the props. You've clearly drilled down to a nerve ending with these guys. They need to realize just throwing you a prefabricated soundbite isn't going to put a smile on your face and send you off on your merry way.

LakerTom, you may be partly right because how can a team win a game without an offense. It goes hand in hand, but I think it starts with strong defense. Your best defense actually leads to easy offense.

You said that you're not being critical with Kobe, why not? Whoever they are if they did not perform, we have to be critical because they lost miserably. You talk to any Laker fans outside of this blog, they will tell u their true feelings of the team - "the team failed us on Christmas day from coast to coast". For that there should be no excuses, no justification Lakers seemed to have no answer to Miami offense from starters, subs and coaching staff.

The only consolation that in any adversity, there are opportunities. However, we said this after losing 4 consecutive, after losing to the Bulls, after losing to Bucks and Heat...we have to be realistic as a cheering squad. When we say we want to win, we must win by hook or by crook and no ifs and buts.

I was inspired by a Roland Lazenby tweet this morning to post on here for the first time. He tweeted: "Phil Jackson has just won 2 titles with 3 straight trips to the NBA championship series, and he has to ask Lakers fans for patience? Whoa."

The Lakers are a team that was put together for the playoffs. Yes we're old. Yes we don't get up for the regular season. And yes it's frustrating. But they seem to always deliver when it counts. And I credit PJ for not allowing us to peak too early. He knows when it's winning time. And it certainly not in December!

We have a team in The Lakers that is built perfectly for 7 game series. There's no need to mess with that. The best coach in the NBA spends a whole regular season getting The Lakers ready for another Championship.

At this point, These are the cards that we were dealt. We have an older, experienced, veteran club. That rely on their experience. And their veteran savvy. 3 time Western Conference Champion. Back2back NBA Champion, Going for the 3-peat! We are smack in the middle of another Dynasty.

Until somebody proves that they can beat us when it counts, there is absolutely no need to make any desperate moves!

So why don't we save all this negative crap and freaking out for later.

This Has Been

Laker Tom- Nice post.


I agree that the Lakers have not been executing the triangle offense appropriately and therefore has left them vulnerable defensively. I believe there are also a couple of other factors that have contributed to defensive lapses because our offense.


The Lakers can also push the ball and create easy baskets in transition when the opportunity is there. There is nothing like a good o'l fashion lay up or dunk while the other team is trying to get back or set up the D. Don't force it but quit trying to be too cool to run the ball upcourt and make easy baskets.



The constant looks at referees when fouls are not called. They are not getting back on defense for the sake of a stare to make a point about a no foul called. I'm not saying that they are not getting fouled, but taking the time to stare at the ref when the other team has the ball creates a defensive disadvantage.


When Pau and Kobe are in sync, they run more pick and rolls. Kobe is a great passer and can give the ball to Pau in stride, or keep it and take advantage of a mismatch. The two are playing disconnected right now. Not sure if Kobe doesn't trust Pau or Pau doesn't trust himself. Maybe it's coming from the bench, but when they execute good pick and rolls they are very effective.


Defense is not independent of the offense. Players will play better defense after a good offensive execution, not sure why, but they do. I believe the Celtics are one of the few teams that will let the defense dictate the offense. Defense is the ultimate test of team unity and trust. The Lakers are not quite there, and is more evident on the offensive end. That's why we have scored 80 points a game in the last two outings.

The real message is to stop the talk, start walk the walk by honing skills on the basketball court not through the blog and threads. Win first then talk later of all kinds of theories and histories. If we talk in this manner, we are representing the sentiments of most Laker fans on the streets at this time. They don't want to hear anything, no amount of justification for that miserable loss. Silence and humility are the best remedies of the moment. just win baby then you can talk of historical achievements in great proportion.

The Lakers are a team that was put together for the playoffs. Yes we're old. Yes we don't get up for the regular season. And yes it's frustrating. But they seem to always deliver when it counts. And I credit PJ for not allowing us to peak too early. He knows when it's winning time. And it certainly not in December!

So why don't we save all this negative crap and freaking out for later.


Maybe the fans should not show up at Staples until the playoffs either. They should realize that they are not going to get the real team during the regular season so why pay their real dollars. Save the money for when it counts, no? Fans are indirectly involved in the success of this franchise. They are the reason the Lakers can afford to be the highest paying team in the league. I wonder how many Lakers jerseys were sold during the Christmas season? So it's not unreasonable for the fan base to expect more from the team. We all know our history and, we are not taking anything away from the last two seasons, but every year is a new beginning and a new journey. We don't want to succeed in December and fail in May/June, but we want a team that plays with the heart of a champion and doesn't give away wins especially on their home court against teams that are "not better" than them. That is not too much to ask. In the end we will stand behind this team and will take the journey together, but we can not ignore the complacency that has been displayed by this team lately.

Go LAKERS!

I love you guys that keep insisting on Fisher starting. Have you watched this clown on the court this year. And don't tell me he plays good team defense.
Because of his slow feet he is doubling way too much and leaving his man who is nailing 3 pointers. You need to isolate him to see how bad he really is. It is time for him to show some class !!!

Rick,

I'm down with your strategy. However, I say we bench Gasol and Thriller early on. I don't think Phil really believes in that, however. He likes stability even if players slack off.

@Rick - I agree no one is guaranteed a starting spot. I understand your desire to shake things up. But if you're going to bench Ron, how do you justify starting the 3rd string player (Walton) over the 2nd string player (Barnes)? Walton is currently shooting 25% from the field and 10% from 3pt.

just thinking about having to watch dfish play for 2 1/2 more seasons gives me serious ulcers


LRob,

you wrote: I thought Pau’s effort in the Miami gave was good, but his production was not. Overall I agree that Artest and Fish are giving a better effort, but they haven’t been as productive. Remember I’m saying this in the context of other deserving to be benched before Pau. Trying hard is great but in the end productivity is more important. For example, take the Collins twin on the Hawks, (btw he would’ve been a good 3rd center for the Lakers). He always plays hard and that has kept him in the league all these years, but his productivity is what it is.

my response: hmmm ...

http://www.nba.com/games/20101103/LALSAC/gameinfo.html#nbaGIboxscore

Pau Gasol is 7-15 w/ 10 FT attempts.

http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=301225013

Pau Gasol is 8-17 with 1 FT attempt.

No stats don't tell the whole story, but the story can't be told without stats.
Please explain how Gasol is giving the same effort with at 95% reduction
in FT's.

re: productivity being more important than effort. I don't disagree with you,
but it's a chicken egg thing. You can't be productive, at a high level, without
putting in the effort. Can you name a highly productive player who doesn't
put in the effort?

re: Defense & championships.

Talk about the perfect article for this ...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=7276

snippet:
Here are some quick logistic regressions I ran between offensive/defensive efficiency (as measured by my 1951-2010 estimation equation) and whether or not a team won a championship...

The first regression is between regular-season offensive/defensive rating (relative to the league average) and championships won since 1951, the first year for which I can estimate possessions. The logistic equation to predict championship probability from RS efficiencies was:

p(C) ~ 1 / (1 + EXP(4.7267572 - (0.3988116 * Offense) + (0.612137 * Defense)))

snippet:
Conversely, if you make the defense better while keeping the offense average, here are the expected championship probabilities:

snippet:
Boston's dominance during that stretch could possibly be inflating our sense of whether defensive teams are more likely to win because: A) Their defense was so historically outstanding in the Bill Russell era; and B) Their offense was so mediocre (they were below-average in 7 of the 13 years listed above!). To avoid the possibility of this skewing our sample, let's re-run the regression using only results since the 1976 ABA-NBA merger (and using the traditional possessions formula rather than the historical estimation):

p(C) ~ 1 / (1 + EXP(5.5573404 - (0.5306148 * Offense) + (0.6129486 * Defense)))

Here is another article which is not nearly as rigorous nor reaches the
same conclusion. However, form an opinion ...

http://www.hoopsvibe.com/features/articles/48565-does-defense-really-win-championships

LakerJ,

you wrote: When Pau and Kobe are in sync, they run more pick and rolls. Kobe is a great passer and can give the ball to Pau in stride, or keep it and take advantage of a mismatch. The two are playing disconnected right now. Not sure if Kobe doesn't trust Pau or Pau doesn't trust himself. Maybe it's coming from the bench, but when they execute good pick and rolls they are very effective.

my question: How does the opposing teams defense factor into what Kobe
& Pau are doing?

Here's a strange question ..... is all of this happening because Pau's not
getting the calls?

Think about it for a second ... if Pau shots 8 FT attempts ....

that means that we gain at least 6 pts. Furthermore that should reliably
take away 4 pt- 6 pts from the opposing teams score. Also, the opposing
C might not play hard because he's in foul trouble.

Rick - I think that goes for most of the media. I think we all for the most part try to ask very specific questions so we can better understand what's going on. It's unfair to derive any conclusions from this at all, but I find it very interesting Phil, Ron and Lamar kept a tight lip involving anything what Kobe may or may not have discussed with the team.

hobbit,


Good point on Pau only shooting one free throw. That's generally a good indicator for effort. But we both know we can also show games were Pau or other similar players only had 1-2 free throws that were preceived as games with good effort.


No I can't name any players that are productive without putting forth good effort. But let's look at the flip side. I'm sure you can name a few players that put forth a solid effort...but still aren't productive.

But lets cut to the chase here. This is essentially a question about Pau's productivity. As you said he can't be productive without the effort. His stats thru 30 games are:


19.5pts/11 reb/4.1 asst/2blks.


What grade do you give him thru 30 games?

Tomorrow will be pretty. Tony Parker–in his dreams, as we type–sees himself in the candy store: Caramel and lavender?
Posted by: no mo' platitudes | December 27, 2010 at 11:56 PM

thanks for the reminder.. will have the visit the drugstore tomorrow before i get ready for the dfish show.. . the best treatment for dfish may be acid blockers used to fight heartburn... TUM TUM TUM TUM TUMS!


Rick F,
[On the previous thread, I proposed benching Gasol and Thriller. No one commented. Either you didn't take me seriously or you thought I was mentally ill, or that I was pulling your chain. ]

umm all of the above ...

*yawn* ... happy holidays to all ...

Honestly ... I'd rather the lakers keep it in cruise control ... we've had an easy schedule but it won't stay that way 4eva ... we'll get our fair share of quality wins ... another say 55+ season ... and we'll take w/e seed we get and still 3peat

It's December, there's no need to stress yourselves ...

PICK YOUR POST OF THE YEAR
No RCOTD eligible because that's like a David Stern endorsement

Posted by: island priest

I like to read this blog because it gives me a good laugh. There are some fans who are eternal optimist and can see no wrong and think that the Lakers will 3 peat when it is said and done. Others who criticized the Lakers though fans are attacked. Listen I am a Laker fan since the days of the Captain and Magic. However, the Lakers are in deep trouble. It starts with our coach who sits in his high chair and seems so nonchalant or indifferent. While coaches like Rivers are using nuclear physics schematics to design plays on defense and offense, Phil just stares and hardly calls timeouts. I know I know he won 11 rings but the Lakers are playing with no emotion or passion. There is no spark from any player. What is even more disturbing is that the Lakers schedule thus far has been soft, actually sponge bob soft and we have struggled.

____________________

The sentence

***While coaches like Rivers are using nuclear physics schematics to design plays on defense and offense, Phil just stares and hardly calls timeouts.***

might be the most profound and revealing comment I have read on this blog.
This game has evolved into that type of coaching technique necessary to fulfill the true collective potential of a team.

It's December, there's no need to stress yourselves ...
Posted by: segeboy | December 28, 2010 at 05:00 AM
*
OK Sheriff, I'll go along with that for now. But I expect you back here in uniform if Riots break out!!! LOL!

*_________________________________________________________________________*
ARISE MIGHTY LAKERS NATION. SHAKE IT OFF …..WE STILL GOT THIS!! *_________________________________________________________________________*
GAME DAY BABYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY http://tinyurl.com/3yspjcm - Lakers Armageddon
*_________________________________________________________________________*
LAKERS(21-9) vs. SPURS (26-4)__ 5:30 PM__ TV = KCAL __RADIO = 710/1330 AM ESPN
*_________________________________________________________________________*
http://tinyurl.com/ylp3qqc _ I Love LA http://tinyurl.com/2c9afer - Here comes Lakers
*_________________________________________________________________________*
Good Morning Fabulous Justanothermambafan(Head of Mamba Clan) & Fabulous Morning Crue!!!
DJ LROB, LakerLASS, LEWSTRS, NewMexicoLL, Fan Of The Mamba, PsychedLakerGirl,Jon K
Faith, Wes, Rick Friedman, KB Blitz, Ouchhhhhh, DBDH, Caliphilosopher, LakerMike, HobbitMage
KobeMVP888, 63 Footer, 2Phatt, MagicPhil, JohnnyP, JohnnyV, Noah, Complex_Brotha, Phred,
Jolly Rancher, Nemaia Faletogo, Jamie Sweet, ChicNStu, Wallace, ZairaAmaterasu(Goddess), P_ang
PFUNK36, STAPLES24, LakerFanInCowTown, OCIsMambaCounty, Joe Corrad, TroyB, Troy, MUD
Edwin Gueco, LakerTom, GinDC, I hearned that, Wilson24, Todd, FRMKT, J24(LadyJ24), Fearless
Art-Fl-Laker-Fan, McLyne, CornerJ, Laker-J Jefe101, CyberCosmix, Vman, Seely-Iggy, McLyne,
Tom Daniels, LakerTom, Edwin Gueco, The OutLaw & Baby OutLaw, BronxLakerFan, Mark G.
RAMNEETKB24, Adrian Palomar, Diandra, Ricky, D(erek) J(eter), London Laker, JustaLakerFan
Nostradamus, Segeboy/Sheriif, Jay_KB24, Yellow Fever, Gilbert Batung, ALLNet, J-Dizzle
PatrickHenryPress, OCLEZY, LakerFan24, NBA4Ever, Raymond42N, Bay To LA, Laker Peace
RaiderLaker1980, Chad712, Alekesam, TrollMan, Sonny Belfast, G-Money, Joseph, Sean
*_______________________________________________________________________*
http://tinyurl.com/262gvke - Kobe Bryant - The Worlds Greatest
http://tinyurl.com/ybowh6l _ Kobe Bryant - Greatness Personified
http://tinyurl.com/2dh8ekd__ Kobe Bryant - SIMPLY THE BEST
http://tinyurl.com/24gl97s _ Kobe Bryant - HATE ME!!!!
*_______________________________________________________________________*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQmnjAHUy9Q&feature=related _ It’s my Life – Kobe
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5p2-M4r0GM&feature=related - Black Mamba
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytClQrQL214&feature=related - Crank that Kobe
*_______________________________________________________________________*

I don't think so!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Actually that shpuld be 0-4? Shouldn't it?

Correction***
Actually that should be 0-4. Shouldn't it?

Now if by some infintisimal chance The Lakers should lose... I promise I will reconsider. Truly!!!!!!

I'm in a win win proposition when it comes to Phil Jackson

Win it all and I'm happy plus I eat more crow for my criticisms of Phil Jackson

Lose, and I get what I always wanted.

1. A new coach who might actually not be stuck in the "Bermuda Triangle Offense"
2. A coach that impacts players motivation
3. A coach that might make in-game adjustments
4. A coach who might take advantage of mismatches
5. A coach who doesn't fall asleep on the bench
6. A coach that might bench Kobe when he goes 1-on-five for extended periods of time
7. A coach that might bench Gasol when he refuses to man-up
8. A coach that might bench Artest for not being able to guard anyone besides Paul Pierce (a baby Durant doesn't count)
9. A coach that might put Fisher at the end of the bench where he belongs.

and MOST IMPORTANTLY
10. A coach who thinks losing is not an option

Thats infinitesimal. Sorry no coffeee yet.

But, but, if you lose you get no 3-peat. Carry On!

@PompousTom-LOL ... Written like a true Yankee fan. Buy the best offensive player at every postion and forget about buying any pitching. Pitching is overrated! Sorry, I forgot about Burnett and Prior!

But, but, if you lose you get no 3-peat. Carry On!

The only negative Mamba

The thing about Phil is, each year you think the game has past him by and the Lakers win another championship

I TELL YOU THE GUY DRIVES ME LOONEY

Good Morning Laker Fam,


We've heard all the talk....now its time to see who'll walk the walk.


I think this morning I'm feeling a little CCR channeling Little Richard...as the Lakers take their "Travelin Band" to SA...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjMMz6osU4U&feature=related

Well I'll tell you Mo, can I call you Mo? When they complain I'll respond, but until then.....

My new mantra

LOSING IS NOT AN OPTION


LOSING IS NOT AN OPTION
TM

Come to think about it

Besides Phil
Kobe, Fisher, Gasol, Bynum, Artest, Lamar, and etc.

They all are driving me extra looney this year

I think this morning I'm feeling a little CCR channeling Little Richard...as the Lakers take their "Travelin Band" to SA...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjMMz6osU4U&feature=related Posted by: LRob | December 28, 2010 at 06:29 AM
*
Good Morning LRob! Yes, Yes this starts the morning off to a very nice beginning sir! Carry On!
*
Good Morning 131-92! I see that Swagger is still intact!! Very good!!!

Starting tonight

Losing is not an Option

LOSING IS NOT AN OPTION
TM

*_________________________________________________________________*
STARTING TONIGHT …LOSING IS NOT AN OPTION !!!!!! - BANDWAGON
*_________________________________________________________________*
(01) TROLLMAN – OWNER - Starting tonight Losing is not an Option LOSING IS NOT AN OPTION
(02) MAMBA24 – DRIVER -


but until then.....u can carry on with ur outfreakingstanding PLATITUDES Posted by: no mo' platitudes | December 28, 2010 at 06:37 AM
*
Awwwww, You say the sweetest things...Truly!!!!!!!!

LRob,

you wrote/asked:

No I can't name any players that are productive without putting forth good effort. But let's look at the flip side. I'm sure you can name a few players that put forth a solid effort...but still aren't productive.

But lets cut to the chase here. This is essentially a question about Pau's productivity. As you said he can't be productive without the effort. His stats thru 30 games are:


19.5pts/11 reb/4.1 asst/2blks.


What grade do you give him thru 30 games?

my response:

I think I have to give him a C+/B-.

The reason for the low grade is what has happened with his FTs and his
being tired & his whining about his minutes. As, I've said before ....

Stats don't tell the whole story, but the story can't be told without stats.

I was looking for a way to get past the primary stats and find something
which was more descriptive. Let's try this:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gasolpa01.html


so the first box says that his minutes played are up from last year by a
whopping 1.4 minutes.

fourth box down. advanced stats.

his win share is down by 50% from the last two years.
his defensive win share is down by ~ 75%. [ some math geek can correct the
% :) ]
his offensive win share is down by ~ 40%

digging a little deeper ....

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gasolpa01/gamelog/2011/

the above link is going into the individual games ...

Look at his game score for the last 5 games. Look at that trend ...

Some Quotes from John Wooden for us basketball junkies

I do not want players who do not have a keen desire to win and do not play hard and agressivley to accomplish that objective

The greatest ally you have to get things working well and the players performing as a team is the bench. Don't be afraid to use it, either for the star player or anyone else.

I never let our players get satisfied, I never let our coaches get satisfied, I was never staisfied. We can always do better.

LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I never let our players get satisfied, I never let our coaches get satisfied, I was never staisfied. We can always do better. Posted by: Troll Man | December 28, 2010 at 06:55 AM
*
NOW THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dean Smiths quotes

You should sub a player out when you see a player not going full-speed or playing selfish basketball

The key statistic is still to get to the foul line

(I resemble this quote)
If your going to make every game a matter of life and death, you're going to have a lot of problems. For one thing, you'll be dead alot.

If your going to make every game a matter of life and death, you're going to have a lot of problems. For one thing, you'll be dead alot. Posted by: Troll Man | December 28, 2010 at 07:03 AM
*
Yes, yes I do think you have a very valid point there sir! LOL!

Final quote of the morning by Bo Schembechler

When your team is winning, be ready to be tough, because winning can make you soft. On the other hand, when your team is losing, stick by them, keep believing.


Final quote of the morning by Bo Schembechler When your team is winning, be ready to be tough, because winning can make you soft. On the other hand, when your team is losing, stick by them, keep believing. Posted by: Troll Man | December 28, 2010 at 07:14 AM
*
WOW!!! That says it all! Hit it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfUYuIVbFg0 - Journey - Don't Stop Believing

Of course, mamba "the cheerleader" 24,
Nice I like it!!!!!!! Carry On!!!!

hobbit,


I'm aware of the trending stats and mpg (that's good info).


Win shares/Def win shares/Off win shares is a little too deep for me. Basketball is a simple game and I like to keep it simple. Those win stats show Pau is #3 in the league this year (behind CP3 and Lebron), He was #7 in the league last season. I don't think he's played like the 3rd best player in the league. FYI...Kobe is currently #14 in win shares.

----------------------

Let me attempt to summarize our discussion thus far.

You give Gasol a C+/B-. I give him a B. (We're not that far off)

You think Pau has to give better effort. I agree.

You want to serve notice to Pau by benching him. I disagree.

@Troll Man - Nice quotes...but we know sports is a bottom line business. So let me check the scoreboard!

Wooden = 10 National titles
Dean = 2 National titles
Bo = 0 National titles

Phil = 11 National Championships


@no mo - I'm glad you're not my teacher!

If the Lakers lose to San Antonio, heads will roll...

Professor LRob at the lectern!!! Nice Professor!!

If the Lakers lose to San Antonio, heads will roll...Posted by: troy | December 28, 2010 at 07:48 AM
*
GOD@@###!!!!!! Now you tell me!!! If had known that I would never had posted that mini Roll Call!!! OH SWEET JESUS!! What ya gonna do Mamba24, what ya gonna do?

LRob

So what you're saying about the Bo Schembechler with 0 titles

_______
When your team is winning, be ready to be tough, because winning can make you soft. On the other hand, when your team is losing, stick by them, keep believing.
_______

when your team is winning, be soft on them and when their losing be tough and desert them?


when your team is winning, be soft on them and when their losing be tough and desert them? Posted by: Troll Man | December 28, 2010 at 07:54 AM
*
Stop that!!!LOl!

Troll Man,

Those were all very good quotes from great coaches so I apologize if it came across as discounting those quotes.

I respect Bo. He was a great coach and a developer of men. But he was not at his best on the big stage. I agree with that quote wholeheartedly. I was just adding that PJ's philosophy has been very successful.


Also let me add this disclaimer regarding Bo's blow record. It is inherently unfair to have a midwest team play a bowl game on the road every year like the Big 10 does in the Rose Bowl. (Michigan native bias duly noted)


Also let me add this disclaimer regarding Bo's blow record. It is inherently unfair to have a midwest team play a bowl game on the road every year like the Big 10 does in the Rose Bowl. (Michigan native bias duly noted) Posted by: LRob | December 28, 2010 at 08:07 AM
*
You Know LRob I never thought of that!! RCOTD!!!! OUT FREAKIN STANDING SIR!!!!!!!!

LRob,

yes.

So has anybody looked at that article on defense and championships?

hobbitmage,

Yes.

i would really hope the new commers would play tonite, j smith, caracter, and the killer bees, what do we have to lose, hopefully the starters will feel belittled.

I hope that one of the worst back to back home losses in Laker history and 5 off days during that span will help the Lakers regroup and reload as a TEAM mentally and physically.


These losses could be the best thing happened to the Lakers to wake them up rather than sleep walking through the regular season.


Go Lakers!!

Lakers poor performance against Miami was no accident. Fisher/Bryant are aging and skills are diminishing. If you dont believe me, just look at their shooting percentages this season. Gasol did not have a great game but his shooting percentage was actually decent against Miami. In order for the Lakers to be successful, they will have to get Bynum healthy and in better shape which will alleviate some of the post pressure from Gasol. It will also present matchup problems for other teams to matchup with two legitimate seven footers. This should help the Lakers get easy baskets if their offense play inside out basketball. The Lakers offense sputter because all the players now hold onto the ball longer which results in taking rushed shots causing the shooting percentage to decline. Great players abilities decline with age so it's important to recognize that the Lakers best player has been in the league almost 14 years.


Connect

Advertisement

In Case You Missed It...

Video

All Things Lakers »

Your database for all things purple and gold.

Find a Laker

Search a name

Select a season

Choose one of our lists



Categories


Archives
 

About the Bloggers


Bleacher Report | Lakers

Reader contributions from Times partner Bleacher Report

More Lakers on Bleacher Report »



Get Alerts on Your Mobile Phone

Sign me up for the following lists:


In Case You Missed It...