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Poll Question: What do you think of Lamar Odom's returning to the bench upon Andrew Bynum's return?

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Lamar Odom and Andrew Bynum began training camp on the opposite ends of the spectrum.

Odom spent most of his offseason playing for Team USA in the 2010 FIBA World Championship and entered training camp the best in shape because of that experience. Bynum spent his offseason getting surgery on his right knee to treat the lateral meniscus tear he suffered during the 2010 NBA playoffs, a controversial decision considering the surgery happened after attending the World Cup and resulted in him missing the start of the season.

After Odom's disappointing playoff run prompted the Lakers to consider dumping his salary, he's played with a relentless work ethic, dropping three double doubles through five regular-season games, consistently fulfilling a jack-of-all-trades role and remaining insistent that he doesn't want to dial it down. After Bynum valiantly fought through pain during the postseason, he's rehabbed his surgically repaired right knee while fans wonder about his commitment level.

The two will soon come at a crossroads because Jackson estimated Bynum will return to practice by the end of next week and will eventually take Odom's starting position once he begins playing, believed to be around Thanksgiving. Jackson contended after practice Thursday that the switch is "best for the team," a point Odom agreed with when he told The Times' Mike Bresnahan, "Makes no difference to me. We've won two championships."

Even if there isn't much of a debate among the team, I noticed a discussion brewing as early as Sunday during the Lakers' 107-83 victory over the Golden State Warriors. Below the jump, I size up each position, provide my overall take and then ask for your vote in a poll.

Why Bynum should start and Odom should return to the bench: Even though the Lakers are 5-0, the team has correctly lamented its poor defense as it's surrendered more than 100 points in four of the five contests. Bynum's prescence alone should immediately improve that area. Even though Bynum played a limited role in the 2010 NBA Finals and Western Conference finals because of the injured right knee, he gave the Celtics and Suns fits because his size and height kept opponents from freely driving into the lane. He also became instrumental in the close baskets and rebounds, relieving Gasol from that responsibility while he concentrated more on the post. Bynum's presence is crucial early in the game because his production often comes when he builds a rhythm. Being a linchpin early on defense will also force teams to make adjustments quickly.

This situation also plays to Odom's strength because he's used to coming off the bench. Jackson had even started playing Odom with the bench's regular unit beginning Sunday against Golden State so they become more comfortable with him. The skills Odom and Bynum have also makes this scenario possible. Odom's jack-of-all trades role plays to the reserves' strength because he can fit in with any combination and he makes the bench players more comfortable by getting him involved. Bynum -- being a 7-foot center with a large wingspan -- is a rare asset to have, but it's a specific skill that works best only in certain situations. Bynum's going to be behind on conditioning, and there's no way he'd be able to keep up with the speed Steve Blake, Shannon Brown and Matt Barnes bring on the floor. Bynum's post presence will work much effectively with the veterans because they know one another and they'll play at a more deliberate pace than the bench will.

Why Odom should keep his starting spot and Bynum should come off the bench: Odom has earned it. He averaged 10.9 points on 46.9% shooting and a team-leading 10.7 rebounds in 31.7 minutes per contest during the exhibition season, he opened the season with three double doubles and he's cracked double digits in every game. Though I defended Bynum's decision to delay surgery because he needed rest and he was assured the surgery date would give him enough time to rehab before training camp, I understand the sentiment that immediately giving Bynum a starting gig sends the wrong message to a team that stresses professionalism and accountability. It's unpredictable how long it will take Bynum to fully catch up on conditioning and chemistry with his teammates, so it'd be better for Bynum to come offthe bench as he progresses. Besides, why mess with what has been working? The Lakers have averaged a league-leading 113 points, and Odom's been a large contributor in that effort by giving the Lakers' second-chance points, timely outlet passes on breaks and dependable outside shooting and post play. There's no need to diminish Odom's role when it's proved to be so valuable.

The verdict:I'm going with Jackson's decision to put Bynum back in the starting spot for the reasons I outline above. It's likely Bynum's minutes will be fairly limited when he first steps on the court, but I honestly don't think he'll be as effective with the reserves because they haven't played him. Putting 7-footers side-by-side in Bynum and Pau Gasol is a luxury only the Lakers have, and there's no way teams can consistently stop it when they also have to worry about Kobe Bryant. The claim that Bynum and Gasol can't play together proves no longer valid as indicated last season by their playoff chemistry.

In Odom's case, he's either the beneficiary or victim of being good at everything. It depends how you look at it. That's made Odom a moveable part in Jackson's rotation, but it hasn't made him disposable. I can't think of anyone in this league who possesses the skills Odom has. His numbers may dip after coming off the bench, but I don't think his minutes will diminish for the simple reason that Bynum's presence will help relieve the burden Gasol and Odom have fielded thus far on the Lakers' frontline. Because of that, Odom will still remain effective enough to be a significant part of the offense and it'll bolster an already promising bench.

--Mark Medina

Twitter.com/latmedina

E-mail the Lakers blog at [email protected]

Photo: With the Lakers off to a strong start this season, the team is not in a hurry to bring back injured center Andrew Bynum. Credit: Wally Skalij/Los Angeles Times.

 
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we don't need Bynum for what he can offer.

we need Bynum for what Gassy can't offer

Just like we can count on Pau to deliver 25 and 10, and give the Lakers an ungodly winning percentage when he plays since he's been acquired, we can count on you Agitator to offer up a negative post. Two things we can count on...

Totally agree with MM's assessment, Bynum should start when he comes back, that way L.O. can ease into his regular 6th man role. L.O. is the perfect 6th man due to his immense versatility.

The Lakers are far-and-away the best team in basketball at the moment, and they will be downright scary-good when Drew gets back. I really think that the '96 Bulls mark will be challenged, but they will need to only lose 4-5 maximum by the all-star break in order to do it because I'm sure Phil will rest starters heading into April.

Anyway we cut it, the Lakers are the best/deepest team by far, and now that Kobe is showing he's close to full-health - watch out!


GO LAKERS!!!!!

Why not send Artest to the bench? Odom > Artest

Or

Send Fisher to the bench and start Kobe, Artest, Odom, Pau, Bynum

I don't question Phil. That man's got madd rings!!!

Jackie: "Why not send Artest to the bench? Odom > Artest
Or
Send Fisher to the bench and start Kobe, Artest, Odom, Pau, Bynum"

-

Heading all the way back to his Chicago days, Phil has usually kept very consistent starting lineups however I think that those are both good ideas. I could live with either of those if Phil made those switches. I don't see him doing it, but those are a couple of strong lineups. Who am I to argue with 11 rings though.

Shows just how much depth the Lakers have though. Scary-good is what they will be at full strength...


GO LAKERS!!!!!

There are lots of things Bynum can do to help the Lakers this year:
1. Control the middle. He needs to exert some effort to make his presence felt in that area. His shot blocking ability should improve now.
2. Improve his offense..getting the ball from Bryant ( Lob pass, entry pass ) is not enough for him to contribute in scoring. He needs to develop his perimeter shooting like Howard is doing right now. Learn the sky hook, improve his pivot movements ( left or right )to shake off his guard.
3. Learn to pass...with his size he can have a better look for open shooters...
The good thing about Bynum is he is young and very promising. He can still learn a lot if he will put some effort to it.

@Jackie. YESS! I love that line up. Kobe, Artesticles, L.O., P.G., and Drew wow. I believe we have only seen it for a few minutes total, against the Thunder during last year's playoffs, Game 6?
I think MM's breakdown was perfect. Lamar is the perfect 6th man, he just has to stay equally as aggressive when he comes off the bench. Additionally, Bynum's defensive presence is definitely missed.
Hmm. Cant stop thinking about that lineup though. One of the biggest in NBA history? We dont need to start like that but I want to see more of it. What does everyone think?
Kobe, Artesticles, L.O., P.G., Drew.

If Bynum starts we would have this line-up on the second unit.

Blake
Brown
Barnes
Lo
Gasol

Which i think could put teams away vs their second unit.

Speed speed and more speed.

It depends on how healthy is Bynum. It takes times before it gets in tuned with NBA stamina and speed, it is best to start slow than abruptly alters what is already working with LO. Here is the analogy, you used to have a four man track relay team which has been working for months. Will u change one player that may alter the passing of the baton, the speed pace, the jump start or gradually pace him until he is ready to join the group? It is all about body rhythm and break-in of skills, mental ready before thrown to the fire.

It's not who Phil starts that matters, it's who he FINISHES with that matters. And I absofrickinguarantee that Lamar will be in there at the finish in 99.9% of the key games.

So what's the big deal about who starts? Simple. It's Phil's way of getting Bynum's confidence up and getting him playing into a rhythm with the other starters, but particularly with Pau. The fact is that Bynum is and will be the difference maker in our toughest battles against the elite teams. He creates a matchup problem in combination with Pau that the other elites still haven't found an answer to. And through the first 40 minutes, Phil's going to exploit the heck out of that fact. In the last 8 minutes, Phil's going to go with his 5 all-around best players. and that means Lamar will be out there.

ChicNStu: "If Bynum starts we would have this line-up on the second unit.
Blake
Brown
Barnes
Lo
Gasol
Which i think could put teams away vs their second unit.
Speed speed and more speed."

-

That lineup would be make the playoffs, especially in the east.

- - -

AndTheJellosJigglin: "Hmm. Cant stop thinking about that lineup though. One of the biggest in NBA history? We dont need to start like that but I want to see more of it. What does everyone think?

Kobe, Artesticles, L.O., P.G., Drew."

-

It would be a lot of fun to see that lineup, even though they would get killed by speed. There is no doubt that this lineup would be unstoppable at the offensive end though, I'm sure that Kobe & Ron Ron could at least contain most guards enough so that this lineup would win the +/- battle while they were on the floor together. Would love Phil to play around a bit more with his lineups, he's got sooo much depth to tinker with.

I could only imagine what Don Nelson would do if he were Lakers coach...


GO LAKERS!!!!!

Corner J,

I agree with everything but the your last sentence.

The last 8 minutes it will be: Sasha, Luke, Ebanks, Caracter and Ratliff. Our garbage line-up. LOL

@CHICNSTU… Actually, the lineup we saw more often last year had Drew playing center with Lamar and not Pau. Since Pau closed halves and games, he was usually the first big to be substituted for LO. The only part that I disagreed with MM’s terrific analysis was his argument that Bynum would slow down the Killer B’s. Wait and see because LO and 4 Killer B’s with Drew in there will be the norm.
~
The argument made by some Lamar starting advocates that the second unit needs an offensive focus with Kobe gone is in my opinion a very valid argument. Having Drew be the offensive focus for the second unit makes a lot of sense. It grooms him to do the same down the road once Kobe retires. Further more, Drew is usually playing against the other team’s backup center where he has a big edge.
~
As for Lamar, I agree with MM that he, if he continues to play near his current level (a full season AT his current level is actually impossible), he will get his fair share of the minutes. And that of course applies equally to Drew and cannot be ignored by Pau either, as we saw Phil pull him when he was playing exceptionally poorly and soft near the end of last year. Hopefully, all three will play great.
~
What we all need not to lose sight of is that internecine arguments like should Drew or Lamar start, who is the better center Drew or Pau, or should Kobe play more like MJ or Magic should be reframed to be statements about the team’s great depth and versatility or Kobe’s all around greatness to do whatever his team needs to win. Why take a winning situation and turn it into a family feud?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
TOM

Meant to say 'garbage time line-up'

Another reason why PJ should keep Bynum in the 2nd unit is the element of surprise? We all know that the real competition really starts on Christmas Day against Heat, it is best to hold on Bynum card up to end of November. What is achieve in showing all the Lakers arsenal in Nov. Are we not risking a recurrence of injury. Having said that, Bynum should practice with the starters at El Segundo at earliest time possible but hide him from scouts of the four teams. Let us show that Bynum in the small window of the 2nd unit, even if he's already willing and able to play with the starters. Three things are being achieve here: 1 LO is doing great with the starters so why regulate his contributions; 2 Let other team guess on Lakers moves in assessment of their capabilities; 3. Make Bynum hungry for showtime.

One caveat here is Pau Gasol, can he extend his playing time on close contests?

ChickNStu,

"garbage time line-up"

I would call "Lakers best bench warmers." PJ will never play those five simultaneously unless the preceding 7 players have been fouled out, two technicals or injured. Chances are two out of those five will be in street clothes because only 12 players can sit on the bench.

Edwin,

yeah. it was a joke.

To Phil Jackson I defer...

Lakers Dynasty - The Next Generation...

#17 Coming Up!!!

I can't stop thinking of how fun it would be to see all the ways Nellie would tinker with the Lakers lineups.

I'm with you LakerTom, a lot of the debating that goes on about 'who should start over whom' leads to needless arguments (not saying that is happening here). L.O.'s enormous versatility gives him a great quality to come off of the bench with, and I also think that Bynum is about as dominant over opposing centers and creating as much of a mismatch at center on most nights that the Lakers have at any other position matchup on the floor. Having Bynum out there, with Pau moving to his more natural PF position, makes an already great Laker team into an almost unbeatable juggernaut.

Whatever Phil decides to do it I'm fine with, but I tend to think given his comments and his previous history that Bynum will be back to the starting lineup on his return - giving the already deep Lakers another great weapon off the bench in L.O., and creating a starting-5 that will absolutely dominate...


GO LAKERS!!!!!

I'm conflicted on this one. I feel that Lamar has earned a starting AND finishing spot both with his play and attitude. I am loathe to mess with that great mental place he is currently inhabbiting.

However, the medical reasons for putting 'Drew in the starting 5 are astute and cannot be ignored.

Lamar will FINISH games, anyhow!

Phil Jackson, on whether he will start LO or AB...

"WHAT SHOULD I DO"

Lakers Dynasty - The Next Generation...

#17 Coming Up!!!

Bynum by all means should start and at first limit minutes until he is at full mid season form. LO to bench to mesh and lead 2nd unit since most newbies there. Blake and Barnes and Shannon on 2nd year. LO with FIBA experience shows he can lead. We then can mix and match depending on match ups with opponents.

None of the above. One of the responses should be:

"I defer to Phil Jackson"

That's my vote.

When Bynum is on the floor, Gasol's game suffers. Gasol is an elite playmaker in the post, and Bynum's presence prevents Gasol from maximizing his full skill set. The offense stops revolving around Gasol in the post, and the paint gets overcrowded. Lamar's game suffers as well when coming off the bench. Lamar excels with better players around him, and is far more effective playing with Kobe and Gasol, than on the second unit.

To best utilize Gasol, Lamar and Bynum's skill sets, Bynum should come off the bench. He can be the focal point in the second unit, and have all the shots he wants. Bynum can start against certain matchups (i.e. Orlando, Boston, Portland), but against most other teams, the Gasol/Lamar tandem is better than the Gasol/Bynum tandem, and that's precisely the reason why Lamar usually closes out games over Bynum.

Posted by: LAKER TRUTH | November 04, 2010 at 02:49 PM
=====

Nice post, but it ignores the defensive end of the floor. It is this type of lucid, well reasoned post which demonstrates why Phil Jackson is the Lakers' coach and why we are fans. There are certain things he understands about the team that we don't. But excellent post.

Or else trade Vujacic and the knee-brace-hindered Bynum for Carmelo Anthony (the salaries would work, and Denver would get to dump Sasha's next season), and bring Artest off the bench as the 6th man.

Or maybe not.

I think it's nice that this is a silly, abstract argument. it isn't exactly an NFL quarterback controversy. I think that regardless of who starts, the exact rotations will depend on the opponent and the match up, and Lamar and Drew's playing time will hopefully remain relatively constant, somewhere around 30 mpg when Drew is fully healthy.

One important part of this is that while Lamar and Pau are pretty experienced playing with each other, Bynum and Gasol still need to get some work playing together. They improved a lot in how they played together between the beginning and the end of last season. They can still get better.

During the regular season we have the great luxury of being able to tinker with lineups, but in the playoffs I think the ideal line up to match up with the best opponents is Bynum and Gasol, with Lamar getting tons of minutes in his swiss army, play anywhere guard anybody but can't be guarded role.

In the Finals last year, both Bynum's strength in the middle and Lamar's ability to play both interior and perimeter defense had crucial roles, depending on which line up Boston presented.

Oh, and i skip all comments from people who use the word 'gassy.' It sounds stupid. I think ouchhhhh has demonstrated enough intelligence to be able to make his point without it.

IT IS ALL ABOUT THE LOVE

GO LAKERS!

You guys have some great analysis on this topic. I want to raise a few other points. @LakerTom - I didn't imply that Bynum would slow the Killer B's down in fact the other way around. I feel like Bynum simply wouldn't be able to keep up with them and it would hurt his conditioning level. It's not so much that Bynum would disrupt the bench so much that their speed and fast pace style doesn't suit Bynum's strengths as well as when the Lakers play in a half-court set with the starters.

Some have mentioned having Ron Artest play with the bench, while Bynum and Lamar Odom start. That would create lots of problems. First of all, you have to keep in mind that Artest is their lockdown defender and will be needed to guard the LeBrons, Durants, Pierce's. He's already in the starting lineup for that fact alone. Secondly, the bench needs a leader and Artest can't be that person. He's streaky enough shooter as it is , and while he's made strides in the triangle, Artest isn't exactly the prototype the bench should be following in terms of grasping concepts. Heck it took Artest nearly the entire season before it all clicked

Once again Mr. Medina, you prove yourself the most astute basketball writer at The Times. The Brothers K had the wocka-wocka, middle standup vibe to them, but I am always excited to see when you do one of your well-though out analysis pieces ...

MVP888 - you need to scroll up higher...I beat you to the "defer to PJ line"...

LOL

Big Bomb: "Once again Mr. Medina, you prove yourself the most astute basketball writer at The Times. The Brothers K had the wocka-wocka, middle standup vibe to them, but I am always excited to see when you do one of your well-though out analysis pieces ..."
.
phred: "Oh, and i skip all comments from people who use the word 'gassy.' It sounds stupid"
.
KobeMVP888: "I defer to Phil Jackson ... Phil Jackson is the Lakers' coach and why we are fans. There are certain things he understands about the team that we don't."


Three different posts on three different topics, but to all three I say one thing: AMEN!


GO LAKERS!!!!!

Phred - my blog brother, you've been missed my friend. its glad to see "The Love" is back in play.

LEWSTRS: "To Phil Jackson I defer..."

AMEN to you to bro!!! lol


GO LAKERS!!!!!

Cap's Goggles (83-79): I'm loving the (83-79) addition to your nickname!


GO LAKERS!!!!!

I see two rings that say Bynum should start. Anyway you slice it come playoff time there's 96 minutes for Pau, LO and Drew to split.

Take a look at the minute distribution from last yrs playoffs for the best predictor:

OKC (excluding blowout games 4&5)
Pau 39
Drew 31
LO 26

Utah (excluding gm 3-4 when the meniscus injury limited AB minutes)
Pau 39
Drew 27
LO 30

Bos (excluding gms 4-6 injury)
Pau 42
Drew 32
LO 22

Conclusion = Pau will play his customary 40 minutes and Drew and LO will split the remaining 56 minutes based on matchups and/or which one is playing the best.

Pau, LO and a relatively healthy Drew is easily the best 3-man C/PF rotation in basketball. Add the Kobe-the best player in the game, Artest-the lockdown defender, Fish-the clutch shot maker, a much improved bench, plus PJ-the best coach and the 2011 Lakers are head & shoulders above the rest of the league!

Just pointing out that, whoever is in the 2nd unit...they would be good enough to beat 50% of the other teams starting units...

The combinations are endless...Great problem for PJ to have...Like a set of legos...there are so many ways they fit...

As long as we stay healthy, with everyone available...We would be hard to beat...

Laker Dynasty - The Next Generation...
#17 Coming Up!!!

Correction - post above should say:

Bos (excluding gms 4,6-7).

send Fisher to the Bench

AND

the started should be Bryant, Odom, Artest, Pau, Bynum.

Durant and Thunder playing Roy and Blazers is a pretty tight game...

Both teams looking good offensively, but against us...

They would have no defense and our length would be too much for them to handle...

Camby was a good pick up for the Blazers, although I still think Aldridge is their X factor...

Durant is just a beast...

Laker Dynasty - The Next Generation...
#17 Coming Up!!!

I mean *STARTER* should be Bryant, Odom, Artest, Pau, Bynum.

LEW

My sincere apologies. I meant to say "I defer to LEWSTRS," but I couldn't go back and edit after I scrolled up.

MM- excellent points ... all of them. I re-posted LAKER TRUTH's post from the previous thread because I felt that was also very well reasoned.

Besides my "I defer to Phil Jackson" view when it comes to anything involving lineups and rotations (whether or not I cringe), the Lakers have a proven championship formula which includes Bynum starting games and Lamar finishing them. If that formula requires tweaking because of change of circumstances or match ups, I'm sure Coach Eleven Rings will address those issues at the appropriate time.

1-2-3 RING! #17 coming up STRONG!!

LRob: Great breakdown above, very informative. Phil is underrated as far as being an X's and O's coach, or a matchups coach, but he wouldn't have won his 11 rings if he wasn't very good in those areas. His distribution differences in terms of minutes between L.O. and Drew bear out how he exploits opponent weaknesses with Laker strong points.

Most times Utah and the Suns (Amar'e) looked totally overwhelmed by the Lakers frontcourt during the playoffs. When Drew was on the floor, Boston didn't stand a chance in the post, how many times did Pau, Drew and L.O. disrupt the Boston undersized bigs? Too many to count.

Quite simply the Lakers are showing they are close to having an embarrassment of riches when Drew returns. You excellently sum it all up:

"Pau, LO and a relatively healthy Drew is easily the best 3-man C/PF rotation in basketball. Add the Kobe-the best player in the game, Artest-the lockdown defender, Fish-the clutch shot maker, a much improved bench, plus PJ-the best coach and the 2011 Lakers are head & shoulders above the rest of the league!"

Great stuff! Going for tomorrow's Friedman award LRob? You'd get my vote lol...


GO LAKERS!!!!!

I was too busy watching the game last night and missed Southpark...

Don't know if this was posted or not but totally worth watching this little clip
http://tinyurl.com/27f9nch

Proof that Colorado Hates the Super Best Friend (and loves the Lakers)!!

Posted by: LRob | November 04, 2010 at 08:26 PM

=====

EXACTLY!

First off, tho' I didn't get to see the 2nd half of last night's game, I'm very pleased not only with the W but, also with the team balance in scoring. This is what I believe will seperate the Ls from all the other teams and make them dominant, if they can keep it up.

As far as the 'issue' of whether or not LO should remain in the starting lineup or not, like you MM, I'll defer to PJ...I think he knows best. Besides, I believe LO's leadership skills have really grown since the FIBA World Championship and makes him perhaps, even more valuable coming off the bench with the 2nd unit. That's of course, provided he maintains his current level of play.
~

@63FTR: Glad you enjoyed 'Quadron', I really like 'em too!
~

@LRob: Glad you liked 'Quadron' as well. BTW,your analysis of 'Channel Two' was not necessarily off...you just called it like you saw it(or heard it) but, like I said if you get a chance, check out that 'Artful Time Reduction' release of their's because I believe you'll find several tracks that may surprise you.
~


Now for today's entry in the 'across the pond' series...I absolutely luv this group!

Soulpersona - Don't Go - feat Darien - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2P7bXQjSvQY&feature=related

Soulpersona - Candy Wrapper - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGzlaBVedY8

Soulpersona - Flying Easy - (feat. Deborah Jordan) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqnQZyGr4zc

Soulpersona - Weightless - feat. Deborah Jordan - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kg41VZ39B3g

Soulpersona - "Lifetime" - feat Kia Bennett - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wlpki1e79LI&feature=related

Soulpersona - Imagine - feat. Sibel Thrasher - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQnQuA-MwiE&feature=related
~


Let's go Ls...all the way to a 3-peat!!!!!

Kobe Bryant maliciously attacks five...

http://hoopstopia.com/?p=110

Isn't it ironic that KG acts like such a bully, when he's had one of the most scared games for a 7-footer in league history? Here's a guy that has never banged bodies, has always avoided contact, constantly settled for 20-footers when he should have posted up, who never utilized his skills properly and has basically played weak throughout his career? Yes, he had a couple of dominant years, but he had a top-10 body and skillset, but never got the most from himself.

I say that because what he told Charlie Villanueva was one of the most classless things I've ever heard. He might have insulted his mother while he was at it. What a punk. That is the thing, he acts like such a bully, with such a weak game? Pau took criticism for being 'too soft' - but when can anyone remember KG banging bodies for a rebound? Posting up and muscling up a shot? Not settling for a fadeaway jumper?

The Celtic fans must love it, they always had a few bushleague thugs and classless players sprinkled in their lineups through the years...


GO LAKERS!!!!!

Oh yeah, almost forgot. Nice clip Tim-4-Show...funny!

See y'all tomorrow on the live chat!



Let's go Ls...all the way to a 3-peat!!!!!

That's a no-brainer, Drew should start. With LO back to the bench, we can finally have a strong 2nd unit. The killer Bs are good, but with LO in the mix, it will be better.

Cheers

Kobe, Artesticles, L.O., P.G., Drew.

Posted by: AndTheJellosJigglin | November 04, 2010 at 06:11 PM
-
I love this lineup too, and I hope PJ use it during games.

This is the best argument to have Bynum start, and Lamar come off the bench...

I want Lamar Odom to win "Sixth Man of the Year Award"...

Laker Dynasty - The Next Generation...

#17 Coming Up!!!

Isn't it ironic that KG acts like such a bully, when he's had one of the most scared games for a 7-footer in league history? Here's a guy that has never banged bodies, has always avoided contact, constantly settled for 20-footers when he should have posted up, who never utilized his skills properly and has basically played weak throughout his career? Yes, he had a couple of dominant years, but he had a top-10 body and skillset, but never got the most from himself.

Posted by: CyberCosmiX | November 04, 2010 at 09:10 PM

-----------------------------------------------------------

now just replace KG with Gassy. it works. how was Gassy in the 2008 final. together w/versatile LO??????????????????

who is the center who actually plays on the perimeter?

except Gassy never had a top-10 body. and never got the most of himself.

now that was brilliant. i love when people shoot themselves in the foot and not looking in the mirror. has to be the back pain and the KILLER B's wearing out. and that sciatic nerve that goes …

ehhh, it's fine.
it makes the Lakers more potent in any case and it's about having a winning team. the lineup has worked this way for 2 championship seasons and there's no reason to stop now. i'm happy that Pau would be spending more time at power forward, and i think that's what the final decision is based on. it's not like this in any way diminishes Odom's importance to the team, and i'm sure he knows that.
=
i can see amateurs second guessing the staff if things don't work, but in this case, there's not really much point to it, it's not like our opinions will be considered.
=
look, any notions of "earned", or "the way it should be" or "makes x amount of dollars", or "the way that so and so says" are just in the way and a pain in the butt for people who have to answer loaded questions that in any case go to prove a writer's point whether it's actually correct or not. the right way is the way that works for the team, regardless of any outside opinions, and success is the guide and the proof of any action the team takes if they are to win a championship. that, and health and good luck, which while a person does have some control over, are still given by the maker of all things.

Cyber- thank you. I haven’t even been gone that long.

Um, FCM. You might want to think about this one.

“I didn't imply that Bynum would slow the Killer B's down in fact the other way around. I feel like Bynum simply wouldn't be able to keep up with them and it would hurt his conditioning level.”

-FCM

That would in fact be Bynum slowing down the Killer B’s.

But I think eventually we’ll work it out.

Ouchhhhhhhh- nope, that doesn’t stand up to scrutiny. Keep working on it. Try incorporating the fact that we always win with Pau.

IT IS ALL ABOUT THE LOVE

GO LAKERS!

is it me or has ouchhhhh/The Activator suddenly turned into DFish and Mike T. Combined? he spits his vile and yet does not answer questions asked directly to him by the blog. only regurgitating the same old BS and then insults the members of the blog like hes the Marie Antoinette saying "Let them eat cake." Whats up man? are you a Lakers Fan, or simply a Kobe Fan? I want to know because the Ouchhhhh i remember from back then was much more articulate and funny. I'm believing more and more that you are a handle jacker sir.

Bynum SHOULD start because like Phil said he doesn't want Bynum to warm up and sit on the bench and lower his energy level. He recognizes that if Bynum doesn't get active his game suffers and he plays very badly.

The upside would be an active Bynum would be more useful than a Bynum who is mopping around on the bench. Bynum can't run with the 2nd unit off the bench because simply 1) Like most NBA players being a starter feeds one's ego which helps their game somewhat and 2) He isn't a good creator with the ball and needs either a Bryant or a Gasol to properly give him the ball for alley oops and other shots that he takes advantage of their attention towards them.

(Hence why I don't view Andrew Bynum as a franchise player since most of his production comes thanks to the attention that those two demand and there is a world's difference between having a top 5 perimeter player getting the ball for you and forcing to create.....say what you want but it is much harder to create with the ball, especially when you aren't good at handling the ball, rather than take advantage of the attention towards the more superior players).

So start him so at the very least there is a chance that he can be more active and help the team. If he has a game where he mopes around LO can receive the bulk of minutes (and most times he will) and Gasol will easily shift towards Center again easily and win the game.

Reason we are 5-0 even without Drew. Just goes to show how talented the team is.

Though Bynum's return will be relief to me because I was not impressed by a 37 year old Ratliff/D. Character.

my answer: DEPENDS entirely on what kind of bynum we get.

odoms got too good a thing going now.. i say make bynum earn the starting position first.. now way he should be handed starting position right away.. it should all come down to that knee and how it reacts... and how it holds up in real game time over a long stretch... until then theres just still too many questions on bynums health, strength, timing conditioning to even decide now.

see how that knee holds up then decide. for now shouldnt even be up for discussion.

i am however very intrigued with how odom will mesh with blake shannon barnes off the bench.

There he goes again .....

we all have out ideal ouchhhhh. it simply belabors ouchhhh to meet our ideal of himself.

mvp888- hmmm?

now just replace KG with Gassy. it works. how was Gassy in the 2008 final. together w/versatile LO??????????????????
who is the center who actually plays on the perimeter?
except Gassy never had a top-10 body. and never got the most of himself.
now that was brilliant. i love when people shoot themselves in the foot and not looking in the mirror. has to be the back pain and the KILLER B's wearing out. and that sciatic nerve that goes …
Posted by: the Activator | November 04, 2010 at 10:06 PM

What are you smokin, Gasol plays back to the basket, and scores most of his points in the paint, KG not so much, more 15-20 footers off kick backs from penetration from Rondo, as for 08, 1st off it was three friggen years ago, and 2nd it was his 1st year on the team, actually he was with us about 5 months, I think he's done rather well since then, better than your one and done KG.

attention SoCal residents: FSW currently replaying kobes 81 pt game!!

the bynum/gasol combo is just too massive to ignore. opponent teams actually get scared face with this prospect. lamar is playing great and its a tribute to him that we are actually having this conversation. but as JVG says, "after guarding gasol or bynum and then to have this guy (lamar) come off the bench. what a luxury." Lamar is a beast.

are you a Lakers Fan, or simply a Kobe Fan?
Posted by: Cap's Goggles (83-79) | November 04, 2010 at 10:49 PM

1. that can be an interesting question: all Kobe fans are Lakers fans.

unfortunately the many so called "more than 40 years" lakers fans who don't like Kobe. there are all the Lakers fans who don't like Kobe because of shaq. there r the Lakers fans who don't like Kobe because Colorado. there r the lakers fans who don't like Kobe because he puts up a fake face. and there are the Lakers fans who don't like Kobe because it's fashionable. and they want him traded.

so what kind of lakers fans are the ones who don't like the franchise player. the guy who played most minutes for the franchise. the guy who scored more points in lakers history. the guy who owns the most records for the franchise. the guy who HELPED the franchise to 5 titles. (because without the 5 titles, the so called PURE LAKERS FANS will be still be stocked at 11. and if the Celtics trolls will come over they will say that 5 are from Minnesota. so that will make it really just 5. 6 will have an * - and No, i don't buy or believe at all in that theory).

and by the way: this is the guy who put in all his energy to develop his skills to be the best he can be.

this is the guy who does not DISSAPOINTS his fans regardles of broken fingers, knees, shoulders or ankles. not the lakers fans, not the NBA fans and not the international fans, NOT THE BB FANS.

so, who are the real Lakers fans today: the Kobe/Lakers fans or the so called PURE LAKERS FANS?

Bynum returning is a good problem to have. Phil will figure out how to best use him. I hope that Lamar continues to play at this level whether he starts or comes off the bench, he is mentally stronger than Drew, and should be able to handle it. Gasol will continue to be the catalyst on the front court.

@GDUB - Soulpersona is appropriately named. Real soul music. I'm definitely going to check out that cd.

watching kobes 81 pts game also brings up some very painful memories...

take a blast to the past:
season 2005-06, 2006-07, 2007-2008 kobes WASTED years.. his supporting cast:

starters: luke kwame smush and odom
bench: mihm george cook

i know makes your stomach turn..

The most important reason why Bynum should start is a medical one, as explained by Phil. Bynum is going to warm up before the game, and needs to go into the game warm, as he recovers from his injury and rebuilds the leg strength. Coming in cold as a sub won't accomplish that.

Once and if Bynum gets far enough past his injury to be able to come off the bench, it is worth evaluating and giving it a try.

Activator

- need some cheese to go with that insecure, it's all about me, whine?

only if the cheese is altered

ouchhhhhh- thanks for avoiding that word. I don't think there are that many people like those you described out there. Maybe a few who posted here a long time ago, like gunner and Jeff Aho. Don't get me wrong, they will be back if they see a weakness in Kobe. But most of us, even those of us who (for some strange reason) feel that our love for the Lakers must supersede our love for Kobe (should the two come into conflict, which thank Stern hasn't happened yet) are in Kobe's corner.

Fighting Kobe haters just won't pay your bills these days, i'm afraid. We are behind all Laker player's who help the team. Pau Gasol is one of those, again we fear (well, we don't fear, we're quite happy about it. We would like you to acknowledge it, though).

Keep trying, ouchhhhhhh. Pau is on our side. If you can't trust me on that, show up some time and let me try to convince you with my stats and numbers and intuition and my HEY, WE FRICKIN WON THE LAST TWO CHAMPIONSHIPS WITH HIM.

IT IS ALL ABOUT THE LOVE

GO LAKERS!

oh and for those fans of the masheeen: that year of kobes 81 in 2005-06 sasha was also on that bench and couldnt even crack the rotation and get PT with that supporting cast then.

that was only sasha second year.. heres a breakdown of his remarkable shooting stats over his illustrious 6 year career:

2004-05- 28% FG 27% 3PT
2005-06- 34% FG 34% 3PT
2006-07- 39% FG 37% 3PT
2007-08- 45% FG 43% 3PT - also coincidentally year of boston massacre
2008-09- 38% FG 36% 3PT
2009-10- 40% FG 30% 3PT

for a guy whos shot wide open 3s his whole life.. this guy cracked the 40% mark only ONCE in his career.. he has shot consistently BAD every year with only ONE good might i mention FLUKE year..

so masheeeen fans you can wait all you want... just dont say you werent warned.

yellofever | November 05, 2010 at 12:03 AM

how incompetent can be a FO who looks at that line of scrubs and considers that a TEAM? but Jimmy Buss was in charge for a period. and he knew that Kobe will fill Staples and his pockets by himself.

phred

i really don't care about your BB opinions. other things can be funny. so keep Gassy for yourself.

phred

u r one of THOSE who preaches on the Live Chat that the offense should go through Gassy and Kobe should take less shots. so i know exactly where u r coming from

and that you don't like Blake.

stick to fantasy BB. thinks will work out. and don't forget the LOVE especially like when you are calling me out behind the bike parking rack. i feel that love. as pure as the REAL Lakers Fans.

so masheeeen fans you can wait all you want... just dont say you werent warned.

Posted by: yellofever | November 05, 2010 at 12:25 AM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I still remember in your first summer here when you were hyping up the Machine yet bailed ship when he made his "I'm not a garbage player" remark.

Disclaimer: I still stand by my guarantee that Sasha will never return to being the Machine.

That being said yellofever just to make one correction to that FG% thing Sasha's only good year was because 1) Trevor was out and 2) Vlad/Luke were the only alternatives at SF. We know how you feel about Luke and I'm guessing you weren't a big fan of Vlad either. Kobe played SF more and opened time for Sasha to become Sir-Jack-A-Lot.

It did have its benefits (Game 3) along with its major choke job (Game 4).

Just saying man.

Ouchhhhh-Kobe is a Laker, he is already a Laker great, and when it's all said and done he WILL be G.O.A.T. Still, as a member of the Los Angeles Lakers he is a member of a team and it is this team in particular which is the platform from which his greatness is revealed. By the way you make it sound, Kobe single handedly defeated the Celtics last year and has steamrolled the league like an invincible superman. I'm sure he'd be flattered with that sentiment, but the man himself would tell you he couldn't and wouldn't get it done without the team around him, a team that happens to include Fish and Gasol. So I've got to ask, what's the beef huh? What's wrong with Gasol helping Kobe and the Lakers reaching three finals, what's wrong with the idea that Kobe's Lakers getting some praise and love from the fans? I don't get this sudden need to jump on the other members of this TEAM if they take the spotlight from Kobe in one or two games? So what is it with you? Do you want the team to succeed or do you want the team to succeed as long as Kobe gets all the credit?

Real Lakers Fans support each and every member of the team. We may squabble and fight over this or that, but the TEAM remains the focus. We suffer, we cry, we pull our hairs out when things go wrong, but we also rejoice, congratulate, and Marvel when things are going swell. We offer constructive criticism designed for the higher purpose of helping the team succeed, not insult players because you deem them to be soft or old or scrubby as you have done since the beginning of the preseason. All you offer is some negative BS that does nothing constructive and only makes one wonder if you've finally lost it like Mike T. Did. So once again: What's with the hate man? What could possibly be making you bitter about three straight trips to the Finals with this current TEAM and a 5-0 start with a deep bench and near universal belief that this TEAM is going to the Finals again? Enlighten us, por favor...

KB Blitz

glad u r around.
my Firefox has Activator and my Safari (forgot to change it has ouchhhhhhh)

regardless, i will feel very privileged and i will give you a special permission to use couchhhhhhhhh anytime you want. or whatever else.

yello- sasha had decent number for who he is. Let's not focus on Sasha, let's just enjoy that we have better players now, plus a sasha and luke contract that might get us something else. We probably won't be able to trade Sasha/Luke and Barnes for say, Gilbert Arenas and Mark Gasol, but he is an asset, none the less.
Thanks for sharing your opinion politely (as if you could do otherwise) and showing support for our lakers.

IT IS ALL ABOUT THE LOVE

GO LAKERS.

"We offer constructive criticism designed for the higher purpose of helping the team succeed"
Cap's Goggles (83-79) | November 05, 2010 at 12:38 AM

you have to be in denial or have some delusional poster armchair coach syndrome. really??????

well, if you r going back for the past 3 years, i never said anything negative About Pau Gasol. not even when people were calling him soft. actually i even suggested that the Staples crowd, when Gasol plays well to chant Tapas, Tapas …

all that you can do your own research in the archive.

well, but, but, but

last year, Gasol had a terrible road trip, when he totally choked in Cleveland, he did not ven secure the rebound and Lakers lost.

in Toronto the same

and that was topped in the Memphis game after his brother took him to school.
well, after that he came out to the press and put solely all the guilt on KOBE not passing and him not having TOUCHES. and Fisher approved.

so there is your Gassy.

so please don't tell me about fans supporting all the players and actually the players are not supporting each other. and HE DID IT IN THE PRESS, not even in the locker room.

isn't the Lakers organization famous about not leaking things and washing the laundry in the family???????????????

so i lost all my respect for Gassy as a person. and for Fish. they r 2 demagogues. and PJ, knowing Gassy's fragile ego sided with Gassy. ????????

on a different note, both Gssy and Fishy are the worst defenders on this team. the defense is constantly broken down and neither the press, nor media, nor PJ will even go there

so i'm just pointing out what i see. and if i don't see it, i will make it UP.

and Fisher for me as a player WAS/is totally anti-BB. except spot up shots, he does not know to dribble, to pass, to defend. nothing. do you see how he leads a fast break. i will ban those films from other players or i will use them in the HOW NOT TO DO part

do i have the right, as a person who believes in loyalty and integrity, to NOT LIKE Gassy and Fishy? after the famous Memphis moment?

and i'm not the only one on this blog who feels the same about that issue. go back to the archive and read all the comments. maybe some don't mention it anymore. but they still feel the same.

and it makes me laugh that people even try to regurgitate the meme of "Gassy shouldering the TEAM". it never happened and never will BECAUSE HE CAN'T. he is not made out of the RIGHT MATERIAL. and neither has the physical or mental constitution. he FIZZLES.

Just imagine how awesome our bench is going to be when Lamar comes off the bench!!!
-
What do we play for? RINGS!!!
-
Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.
-
GO LAKERS!!!

no, Gasol isn't a "Kobe". he does a lot to help the team, though. it's a good thing we already have a Kobe, so Gasol doesn't have to be what he's not. boy, am i glad that Gasol came to this Lakers team though, anyway. i'm glad old dog Fish is on the team, too. we win with these guys.

"Just imagine how awesome our bench is going to be when Lamar comes off the bench!!!" - Jon K.
+
i'm hoping the reality is even better than my imagination...even if it isn't nearly as good as my imagination, it'll be pretty darn good in reality, i suspect...

nope, ouchhhh, I really am on your side. I've been defending you. If you want to be a one note wonder who is disregarded except as fodder for jokes, keep it up. I don't want 'gassy' That's your row to hoe.

Also i think you misunderstand my life chat opinions, feel free to point out any
inconsistencies in those. I think they speak for themselves, but it wouldn't be the first time I was wrong. Wouldn't be the first time you completely jumped all over my perfectly reasonable opinion, either.

Blitz- help us out, we are trying to get ouchhhhh up to speed on the laker blog and the love in general. Let us know what you think.

oh, and ouchhhhh, have your heard the story of the blind man inspecting the elephant? That might be (i don't know, nor judge for sure) you on the game chat.

ouch- so, what do you want from Gasol numbers wise?

I can smell a bet coming on.


Yeah you know what? I probably do have that armchair coach Thingy you made up, but if you are basing your apparent disgust of Gasol over a couple of ultimately meaningless regular season games games and his comments to the press after Memphis (Comments that the great Mamba himself laughed off with a Phil-Like shrug), then seriously, from the bottom of my heart, get over it man. Last season is done, OBVIOUSLY his comments and his meaningless were a great factor in the Lakers failing to win it all last year....oh, wait a minute, THEY WON! Good God man, every one of us can see that Fishy has lost a step in his age and obviously has trouble defensively, but seriously dude, if Phil has him in the game, it's OBVIOUS that he's doing it for some reason that even I, in all my wisdom, cannot possibly understand most of the times but do you see me complaining about it? NO! why you ask? Because It Freaken Works!!! So really man, get over it and appreciate the three-peat run with some joy and excitement . That's all I'm saying on this subject, it's been a pleasure debating with you Sir

I love Kobe, but if I support Kobe the way I say I do, then I'm going to support what he believes in. He wanted Fish back on this team. Let us not forget that Fisher was a free agent and Kobe made sure that the Lakers resigned him. The FO could have told Kobe to go pound sand, but eventhough it was a business decision, Fisher was signed even after Blake was on the team. Phil Jackson could have also said that he did not need Fisher, and that could have carried the most weight I'm sure. Fisher is going to retire a Laker and will wear more bling than many other "super" point guards.

Pau Gasol is the current lakers franchise player. He is the triangle, the rings, the victory. He is the real champion in this team. The current Lakers is all about Pau Gasol. Phil is Pau, too.

Conclusion: NO Pau, NO Lakers.

Blitz- help us out, we are trying to get ouchhhhh up to speed on the laker blog and the love in general. Let us know what you think.

Posted by: phred | November 05, 2010 at 01:37 AM
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Did you succeed yet with Pfraud36?

Posted by: Jon K. | November 05, 2010 at 01:23 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I can't believe it's not butter?

It feels weird to post on here again, lol.
Since the lakers acquired Pau Gasol, we've been to the Finals 3 straight years. Kevin 'garbage talkin' Garnett has only been there twice. I used to respect him as a player when he used to play for Minnesota . But he talks so much trash for a player who is going to go down known as Minnesottas best player, and a better scorer than Charles Oakley.


"I can't believe it's not butter?"

personally i will give this the RCOD. but MM likes long eloquent comments.

was that a jab at Jon K and the Clippers? are the Clippers only margarine versus the Lakers who have the European Butter flavors?

will you choose Machine flavored butter or

Gassy flavored one.

sorry folks, no Irish Butter 4U

can be soft as butter or butterfingers?

"I can't believe it's not butter?"

or does it refers to Bynumthe Beast, Bynum the franchise and lately, actually just from today/yesterday The Bynum that the lakers will build around after Kobe retires?

"butter" is a rich subject. and versatile.

Mamba24 in a few minutes will droll over some butter croissants. he needs some breakfast to carry on the bandwagons. 82-0 it's a heavy one.

but where is the BEEF? sorry, the Ham. cheese? or just chocolate.

Play Bynum IMMEDIATELY!!!
'You know WHY?
Do you really want to know WHY????????????
Because PJ is really smart. He knows he can save one of the most versatile players (LO) for better things coming up in the season.....
Bynum will never be 100%.
NOT EVEN WHEN HE GETS TRADED TO THE TIMBERWOLVES along with
Sasha and Luke Walton in EXCHANGE for (it doesn't really matter).
Wake up ya'll...Bynum will never be worth the MONEY (Lots of it).
LO, when properly used, can CONTRIBUTE abundantly.
You know it and I know it!!!!!


"The Lakers don’t even know who we are right now. We would like to build a rivalry with the best team in the world but to answer that question as if there’s a rivalry, that’d be an insult to them." — Kings coach Paul Westphal

Bynum is just an average player.
Nothing special to even worry about.
I don't understand how he's even as good as Theo?
8 point and 5 boards a game is all Bynum has this season.

What's up Lakers fam?

When AB17 returns I'm sure that he'll slowly but absolutely be one of our defensive anchors especially in the middle. Defensively, I think he'll show a little more maturity and improvement on making sure that our rim is protected. I also believe that this year, the high-low post play of Andrew and Pau will flourish due to the fact that Andrew may show us a nice shooting stroke 10-12ft out, thus making him and Pau a little bit interchangeable depending on who's guarding who. But definitely, I would love to see more of his back-to-the basket game because, really, no one can stop his strength, length, and footwork down there.

And with Lamar, going back to the 6th man role where he truly flourish, more of the same of what we're seeing from him right now but in a pace-changing game from the 2nd unit. This will allow him to be fresh come playoff time. If Lamar Odom is the X-Factor of the Lakers, then the Renegades would be the XXXXX-Factors (really lame, i know. LOL).

Anyways, i just dropped by because I missed seeing my name when I read the comments. LOL

Here's a little mix I made three days after the championship parade. Hope ya'll like it. It got quite some views on it and many added it to their favorites. ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcbXPGAVoJI

Brylle

Good Morning Laker Fam,

For all of those who spend more time trashing Laker players than propping the team. I think your view of the Lakers is a little tainted. This morning selection is for you... the original "Tainted Love".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktiguw5e8AY

Gloria Jones, recorded it 17 years before Soft Cell. The same Gloria Jones was a background singer for T-Rex. Gloria and Marc Bolan became a couple and have a child together. Gloria was also the driver (Marc was a passenger) when their car crashed in that terrible accident that killed Marc in 1977. (She did not regain consciousness until after Marc's funeral).

ARISE MIGHTY LAKERS NATION!!!! THE WORLD IS OURSL!!!!
*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRvVzaQ6i8A – National Anthem – Marvin Gaye
http://tinyurl.com/3yspjcm - Lakers ARMAGEDON
http://tinyurl.com/2c3uutk - IT’S TIME FOR WAR

@The Activator, Damn these buttered croissants are delicious want one bro! LOL!

 
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