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Caught in the Web: Negative reaction regarding Phil Jackson's comment about Miami's coaching future

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--The Times' Mike Bresnahan highlights the reaction regarding Phil Jackson's comments about Miami's coaching situation.

--The Times' Broderick Turner explains the concept behind the Lakers' "Turkey Trot."

--True Hoop's Henry Abbott notcies Lamar Odom and Pau Gasol have proved impressive in the plus-minus category.

--Ball Don't Lie's Kelly Dwyer takes Stan Van Gundy to task for reacting angrily to Jackson's comments referencing his dismissal at Miami.

--The Miami Herald's Israel Gutierrez argues Jackson's comments are misguided.

--ESPN Los Angeles' Andy Kamenetzky shares the news that he and his wife are expecting their first girl in April and that he plans to raise her to become a Lakers fan. Congratulations Andy.

--ESPN Los Angeles' Dave McMenamin looks at how the Lakers have improved at utilizing their depth.

--The Riverside Press Enterprise's Gregg Patton remains impressed with the Lakers' depth.

--The South Florida Sun-Sentinel's Shandel Richardson mentions how Erik Spoelstra has taken Jackson's comments in stride.

--The Palm Beach Post's Ethan J. Skolknik believes Jackson's comments brought the Orlando Magic and the Miami Heat closer together.

--The Salt Lake Tribune's Brian T. Smith explains how the Jazz's "awkward" second unit helps its starters.

--The Orange County Register's Marcia Smith features former Laker Mychal Thompson and his family.

--The Daily Breeze's Elliott Teaford examines the success the Lakers' reserves have experienced thus far.

--Fox Sports' Billy Witz examines what makes the Utah Jazz get the results it wants in a not-so-pretty manner.

--The Orange County Register's Mark Whicker presents a photo slideshow featuring the Lakers' bench.

--Yahoo! Sports' Adrian Wojnarowski notes in passing that Portland Coach Nate McMillan is a candidate to be the Lakers coach next season. Wojnarowski also argues in his column about the Heat that Jackson was trying to stir up drama on the team with his comments about Miami Coach Erik Spoelstra.

--Lakers Nation's Jonathan Hernandez calls Shannon Brown the "anti-J.R. Smith."

--Lakers.com's Mike Trudell previews the Lakers-Jazz matchup.

--Silver Screen and Roll's wondahbap argues Jackson didn't mean anything personal when he mentioned the possibility the Miami Heat would fire Spoelstra.

--Forum Blue and Gold's Darius Soriano lists what he's thankful for regarding the Lakers.

Tweet of the Day: "Happy turkey day tweeps hope its a very safe and fun one for ya. Missing my mom's mac nd cheese right now :-(..... wish i had sumwere to go ... omg sum1 plz bring me a plate :-/ ... officially the worst thanksgiving ever. Lol" -- DevinEbanks3 (Lakers forward Devin Ebanks).

Reader Comment of the Day: "It was probably inappropriate, and somewhat puzzling, that Phil would wade into Spoelstra's job status. But everything he said was true. Here's what we can learn from the Heat so far: 1) Building a winner is harder than people think, a lot harder than drafting a good fantasy team. The players have to fit together. Wade and James are two guys who thrive on having the ball on the perimiter. Only one can have the ball at once, and neither is really at this stage a great off-ball player.

2) Chemistry usually takes time. The Heat may be the best team in the NBA by the end of the season, or next year. But so many guys are learning a new offense and a new defense and their role in it. They are learning their teammates' strengths, weakness, and tendencies. It all takes time. 3) The Heat had a tough early schedule than the Lakers - Boston twice, Orlando. As this team comes together, it will also hit an easier stretch of schedule. They may go on a run then. 4) Coaching and leadership are important. Under a Phil Jackson or a Greg Popovich Miami may have gelled faster. It's a lot more than x's and o's. It's about building a team cultuure and getting everyone going in the same direction. And a leader like Kobe or Duncan doesn't hurt either.

5) Role players matter. The "other guys" have to be complimentary to the stars, accept their roles, and be able to handle the big moments. For every Kareem, Magic, Kobe , Shaq or Pau you need a Coop, a Rambis, a Fish, an Horry, a Fox. The Heat are 8-7, and come March that won't matter. Every team will go through a slump. The question is, can this team pull itself together and live up to the hype? At this point it's an open question. And Phil is right, that won't result in LeBron collecting unemployment. The pressure is on Spoelstra." -- Tom Daniels

--Mark Medina

mgmedin@gmail.com

Photo: Lakers Coach Phil Jackson before Tuesday's game against the Chicago Bulls. Credit: Luis Sinco/Los Angeles Times.

 
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Good Morning ladies and Gents, a great day to be a Lakerholic. Phil is dead on point regarding Riles, and everyone knows it. C'mon on man come clean, Rile's can't help himself, a snake oil salemen is a snake oil salemen. I don't care how you dress him or her up.

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Let them complain. I like these shots Phil is taking at Miami. He's really in his prime right now, this PJ guy. He's putting layers of pressure on the entire Heat franchise and no one's called him on it yet. The idea that the Heat could break the Bull's record, not the Lakers, was an absolute gem.


Wes


Good Morning 2Phatt my brother happy Holidays to you. Come on now 2Phatt, yes Riles is a snake oil salesman but he is also a Lakers Legend. Love him or hate hin he is partt of the Lakers family.

Good morning,

Please avoid any natural instinct to paint me as a Bynum basher. I'm not. AB17 is high on my list of things the Lakers should be greatful for, this Thanksgiving. But there sure are some things he could do to move his position up in the food chain.

Example, this sentence from the previous thread: "Former Lakers Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and A.C. Green, reserves Steve Blake, Luke Walton and Devin Ebanks and the Laker girls served Thanksgiving dinner Monday...."

Or this one: "...guard Derek Fisher and backup center Theo Ratliff on behalf of the National Basketball Players Assn. helped pass out turkeys at the Boys and Girls Club in downtown Los Angeles."

Now, I know that all acts of charity are not done publicly. Indeed, I believe it is an even higher level of charity then these acts are done anonymously. But until the ink on Bynum turns away from when he'll actually be available to play, or from immature hijinx like speeding in his sports car, maybe a little introspection is in order.

Wouldn't the items cited above be more significant if they included the name Andrew Bynum? You bet they would! When you're on a team with the likes of Kobe Bryant and Pau Gasol who love the game and everything it stands for, there's a higher bar. When you're on a team named the Los Angeles Lakers, there's a higher bar for your role both on and off the court.

AB17 has yet to learn these lessons. My holiday wish for Andrew in 2011 is that he finally demonstrates that he "gets it," both on and off the court. I dare say, his legacy as a Laker depends on it.

`Mamba24- Riles will always be a Laker in my eyes, knowing that he hate Phil because everything he's accomplice as a Lakers coach Phil as over shadow him.

In the eyes of the organization and the fans phil will go down as the greatest coach in Laker history, and that burns Pat @zz.

But I would love to see than in the finals, Pat is just waiting to bust Phil's Ego, just not going to happen with that team in south beach this year.

As Phil ride off into the sunset next year, Riles has to that it to the GRAVE.

Nice Friedman, Tom! I read that yesterday and thoroughly enjoyed your insights. Congrats!

Sorry for the miss spell, on the run.

@Kobe fan in Cupertino – very true…lol.


@Wesjoenixon – beautiful selection.


@Jefe – you’re right about last night’s games. I might call both games dogs, but then I would be insulting our canine pets.


@Mamba – thank you for making me and everyone in our blog community feel at home. Your energy is contagious.


@MVP – of course I thought about your sentiment about Little Feat's omission in the HOF when I learned of the Miracles oversight.

Medina,

I posted on the Phil Jackson comments yesterday but apparently you didn't want to engage in intelligent debate instead choosing to pander to the emotional response of a lot of bloggers who simply lack the ability to reason.

The only way to properly judge the comments of one Phil Jackson and his tendacy to cross the line with his wreckless comments is to take a journey into his past and examine similar irresponsible comments

1) Phil Jackson makes the statement that "upon rumors" Kobe Bryant would sabotage his highschool games so he could win them at the end. Does anybody remember this comment by Phil? A reporter who just didn't take Phil's word for it followed up on these comments with someone who would really know.............Kobe's highschool coach..................who promptly dismissed this statements as ridiculous and asked the question why would Phil make such a comment WITH NO EVIDENCE....................If Phil really believed these absurd rumors were true why wouldn't he just ask Kobe............or better yet contact Kobe's highschool coach before making such statements publicly?
These were wreckless statements that threatened to impugn Kobe's integrity and character................from a "respected" coach.


2)Does anyone remember Phil opening his big mouth after Kareem Rush was cut in Charlotte a few seasons ago...............only to be told to "mind his own business" by head coach Bernie Bickerstaff.............who went on to say Phil Jackson has a tendacy to stick his mouth into situations he knows nothing about.


3)I think Phil just likes to hear himself talk at times. Phil Jackson has a history of violating unsaid ethic codes and lockerroom chatter............sometimes he will even put it in a book for profit. Remember when Phil was fired from the Lakers how he completely violated the sacredness of the lockerroom and ended by calling Kobe a "callous gun for hire"?


4) It is not difficult to expose Phil if you make a little effort because Phil talks without thinking or even considering that a good reporter will simply follow up his story. And if you are a really good reporter you will remember these statements and use them as a criteria to gauge all future statements. There is no psychological motive to Phil's statement...........contrary to public opinion Phil Jackson just isn't that deep. These are off the cuff remarks from a person who doesn't think beyond the last word he said. Kobe understands this guy which is why you usually hear Kobe saying "Phil will say anything"


Every now and then I like to re-post this quote from Phil Jackson's ex-wife June Jackson of 24 years............because it is such a beautiful quote that captures the essence of Phil Jackson from a women that sounds like she spent a lifetime studying this guy and his pattern and the response he gets from reporters and media who simply lack critical thinking skills when it comes to Phil's "brilliance" or his "psychological" ploy. June knows and I know and hopefully those who commit his statements to memory will know .................Simply put the comments by Phil were just plain dumb and illogical...............and may be the spark to awaken and motivate a sleeping giant on Christmas day.


JUNE JACKSON ................"My answer to why he's so frequently misunderstood is that he's unclear … it's even unclear to him," she said. "He learned early on to dodge, because people don't want to be pinned down publicly in their statements. So you just become kind of a master of obscurity, which people misinterpret as aloofness. What appears to be his standoffishness is just obscurity and opaqueness. And then people say, 'Oh my God, it's brilliance.' "


Yes June, Brilliant B.S.

Come on PFUNK36 my brother, get in the Holiday spirit! Carry on sir!

Congrats on the RCOTD Tom Daniels! Nice take on Phil, I also think Kelly Dwyer was 100% spot on with his take as well.

Tom Daniels,

Kudos on ROCTD. Keep the hits coming!

Roll call ... checking in!!!

The Utah Jazz in their house tonight. Their fearless floor leader, D-Wil, has gone on record declaring his Hatred for the Lakers. Doesn't he know that ENVY is one of the 7 deadly sins? Of course, the Lakers are a bit GREEDY when it comes to championships and the Jazz has been a GLUTTON for punishment the past three playoffs. But I digress ...

Everyone in here knows that tonight is a very tough game. In fact, the past three practice seasons, we have lost the first time we went up there. But that was the practice season, and we've taken at least one from them in Energy Solutions Salt Delta Palace Center Arena in each playoff series when it counts. During the grueling 82 game practice season marathon, these kind of losses will happen in hostile environments, but in a 7 game series the Jazz simply don't match up with us. Let's see if the Lakers can break that practice season trend tonight for ISH and giggles. After the loss in Denver, the Lakers should be used to the altitude and after that tough fought win against the Bulls, we appear to be ready for prime time teams. If the bench steps up, it should be good one, but in reality ... win or lose ... it's a meaningless game.

1-2-3 RING! #17 coming up STRONG!!

@ Tom Daniels - congrats on ROCTD.


Good article by Ball Don't Lie's Kelly Dwyer.


Also good article from Yahoo Sports A. Woj on the "Riles/Spoles" situation. Here's my favorite excerpt with Woj explaining why Riles won't take over this season....


"No one has a bigger ego than Riley, but this isn’t 2005, and it won’t be Dirk Nowitzki awaiting him in the NBA Finals."

If the bench steps up, it should be good one, but in reality ... win or lose ... it's a meaningless game. 1-2-3 RING! #17 coming up STRONG!! Posted by: KobeMVP888 | November 26, 2010 at 09:13 AM
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Yes I have to say it...OUT FREAKIN STANDING SIR!!!!

Tom Daniels dead on target as usual.

"No one has a bigger ego than Riley, but this isn’t 2005, and it won’t be Dirk Nowitzki awaiting him in the NBA Finals." Posted by: LRob | November 26, 2010 at 09:20 AM
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Now that is a great quote!!

I just came on to say congrats to TD on his Friedman award. All his stuff is well-deserving.

Back to Thanksgiving holiday with my son. Tonight: Go Lakers!


Just because you happen to be right, doesn't mean you should say it.

Phil's right. If they don't turn it around the first move would be the coach since the players are locked. Obviously, Miami has some history here no matter how Van Gundy spins it. Pat's waitin' in the wings.

Why say it? There isn't a why. He said what he thought and he thought like most of the basketball world.

We're watchin' a guy that doesn't need to be careful. He's enjoyin' this. What the hell, it's fun.

I can tell it's game day because Mamba24 is open for business.
All I can say is, Fan Up Everyone!

VMan

Coach Eleven Rings is a comedian. No wonder June Jackson is his EX-wife. She obviously didn't get his jokes and therefore didn't think he was funny. Her words are so transparent.

I though it was hilarious how he pissed off everyone on the Heat AND the Magic right before they played each other.

PJ can say ANYTHING he wants!

I can tell it's game day because Mamba24 is open for business. All I can say is, Fan Up Everyone! Posted by: Lone star laker fan | November 26, 2010 at 09:56 AM
*
Open for Laker Business and Business is Good!!!!!! Thank you sir! Yes sir! Carry On!!

Pfunk states:

"June knows and I know and hopefully those who commit his statements to memory will know .................Simply put the comments by Phil were just plain dumb and illogical..............."

"There is no psychological motive to Phil's statement...........contrary to
public opinion Phil Jackson just isn't that deep. These are off the cuff remarks from a person who doesn't think beyond the last word he said."

Ah yes...another misguided attempt to try to put it to Phil Jackson. Consider:

(a) someone who attempts to state that there is absolutely NO psychological motive for Phil's statement about the Heat. None whatsoever? And how can you tell this? By being a behaviorist and judging from outside of his mind?

(b) someone who says that "[Phil] doesn't think beyond the last word he said". What's your evidence of this? Does he just utter sentences in a haphazard sort of way? If so, it's some miracle of your favorite deity that he can effectively communicate with people on a consistent basis.

(c) someone who says that they know what Phil is thinking based on a few quotes even though they have NEVER actually spent a substantial amount of time with Phil.

(d) someone who uses the testimony of an ex-wife as incriminating evidence of Phil's inability to think. Unfortunately, that kind of evidence just confirms your hypothesis. If you want to actually have something testable and empirically viable, you ought to attempt to disconfirm your hypothesis about Phil. Consider what these people have said about him:

Lamar Odom: "Phil's a man, so he knows how to deal with men"

Derek Fisher: "The best way to sum it up is just that Phil's belief in his own players far outweighs that of any coach I've ever played for in terms of his willingness to allow the players to be players and make the plays"

Both quotes are taken from: http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/david_aldridge/06/15/jackson.zenoften.feature/

Magic Johnson: "Just managing people like Michael, like Kobe, like me," Magic said. "We've got competitive egos and get wrapped up in ourselves and Phil never ever seemed to let that get the team off track. People have no idea how difficult it can be to manage great players who are so driven and want to do things their way."

This quote was taken from: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/15/AR2009061501728.html (on page 2)

It's not really hard to find positive reviews about Phil Jackson, and why some (but not all) consider him to be the greatest NBA coach of all time. Undeniably, he is the most decorated (as far as NBA titles) of any NBA coach.

So before you get into saying something along the lines of Phil not being intellectual or a bad coach, you might want to try to falsify your hypothesis. Unless, of course, by positing your hypothesis you're not *really* trying to say anything with truth-functional content.

I shudder (for your sake) to think what would happen in Phil wins another championship this year, and people heap praise onto his abilities to coax another winning effort from a group of men.

Game Day - Lakers on the road up in Salt Lake City - that'd almost be "Willin'" country! This goes out to the team, in their purple roadies - best band not in the RnR Hall of Fame!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNqv85coyTw&feature=related
"...and if you give me weed, whites, and wine, and you show me a sign, I'd be willin', to be movin'..."

Rick F. - absolute ditto. Nowhere was Andrew to be found. That's a bummer when he can make the road trips but not go to the local boys and girls club.

Cheers - PLG

Friedman, that is pretty lame. You are criticizing Drew because his name was not listed in an article about other players giving back, but acknowledge that you don't know what Drew did or didn't do? That's a stretch, man.

I hope everyone had a safe and wonderful Thanksgiving.

MM, thank you for your dedication. Job well done!

Tom Daniels, Congrats on your much deserved RCOD.

And now a lil blues. Cole Fonseca. Old Soul http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Km7SsD0NQo

@pfunk - I deleted your comment because it had profanity in it. Simple as that.

Game Day - Lakers on the road up in Salt Lake City - that'd almost be "Willin'" country! This goes out to the team, in their purple roadies - best band not in the RnR Hall of Fame!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNqv85coyTw&feature=related
"...and if you give me weed, whites, and wine, and you show me a sign, I'd be willin', to be movin'..."

Posted by: Jefe101 | November 26, 2010 at 10:25 AM
=====

Unequivocally, categorically and indubitably! Right on the money. As far as I'm concerned, there's the Feat and then the next greatest American Rock and Roll band. The next tier is up for debate. OK, I'm biased. Loved it!

Just a warning to other bloggers - do NOT buy NBA league pass to watch laker games. It's a rip off! You won't get many games and the big thing is unless you tell them, they will automatically bill you the next year unless you cancel. I've been trying to get a refund for weeks now - such poor customer service.

NBA LEAGUE PASS SUCKS!!!!

Hey guys we should have a new post up within the next half hour or so

@pfunk36 & Cali....interesting point counterpoint! Next move.


@Jefe - I gained a greater appreciation for Little Feat since you, MVP and others have highlighted them. Thank you. FYI...I don't think the "anti illegal immigrants" posse would appreciate Lowell being so "willin" :-)

LEWSTRS present and accounted for...Checking in for Roll Call...

Hope everyone had a lot of turkey, and don't worry...we will knock the stuffing out of the Jazz tonight...

Tom Daniels congrats on the RCOTD...

My selection today - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoyJsT48TlI

Laker Dynasty - The Next Generation...

#17 Coming Up!!!

re: Andrew Bynum & charity work.

I did a google and didn't get a hit. Did anyone else search for Bynum's
charity work?

@ LRob - I don't think Lowell George gave two s**ts about what anybody thought about anything - I think that's what I loved about him. No better trucker anthem though, that's for sure. Also happen to absolutely love Linda Ronstadt's cover...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4Q6kYEuAPg

a fascinating article on breaking the Heat's defense:

http://nba-point-forward.si.com/2010/11/23/heat-check-miamis-defense-shows-cracks/#

So D-Will and Utah hate our guts huh? cry me a river. as far as i'm concerned, the beat-down our boys give them every year in the playoffs is just payback for the late 90's. Deal with it Utah, you and your classless fans!

Good Laker Morning!! Hope every one had a great Thankgiving. Justa, loved your post on Thansgiving, you do have a way of expressing your self. Lewstr's and Mamba 24, I enjoyed yours too. Been thinking about the family that lost their little guy at Staple's and hope they have strength to get thru this Holiday season.
I just have one thing to say about all the excuses the Heat are getting about not meshing and just give them time......remember when everyone said nobody wants to play with Kobe. Well, I seem to remember when we got Pau, and his 1st game on the road, he and Kobe tore it up, and have ever since. The BIG THREE thought all they had to do was put their jockstrap on and they were going to be the next SHOWTIME. It has to distract The Princess too, cause during that whole Magic game they booed him...so much for 5,6,7 championships!

Turkey Tacos
Yawn-67

Lakers,

POINTS PER GAME111.5 1st
REBOUNDS PER GAME46.31st
ASSISTS PER GAME24.5 2nd
POINTS ALLOWED100.5 17th

Utah

POINTS PER GAME100.6 12th
REBOUNDS PER GAME40.12 5th
ASSISTS PER GAME23.7 4th
POINTS ALLOWED98.1 11th

These 2 teams are very similar as far as ball movement.
Jerry Sloan teams are rebound hungry as well.
Very completive game tonight.
Utah is tough to beat at home and now the weather is in their favor.
However Okur is hurt and the rebounding edge goes to The Lakers.

I give the edge to The Lakers.
That edge is props to our bench and rebounding edge.
Lakers by 8pts.

Caliphilosopher,

Surely you just!

First of all, you have too much time on your hands! LOL

Secondly, let me go through your nonsensical statements..........not because the statements warrant a response but because it probably took you all morning to compile your little disjointed post.


"(a) someone who attempts to state that there is absolutely NO psychological motive for Phil's statement about the Heat. None whatsoever? And how can you tell this? By being a behaviorist and judging from outside of his mind?"

I know this by his pattern............I think I said that in the previous post if you read it. I gave you three examples of similar statements he said publicly which were hamful to it's intended targets reputation yet the statements were based on hearsay or even worse....................he just made it up........out of thin air. Did you read when I said he accused Kobe of sabotaging games in highschool to win them in the end? Don't attack me personally............Deal with that revealed fact! This is what Phil Jackson said.................WITH NO EVIDENCE................ABOUT HIS OWN PLAYER! What say you?


Did you read what I wrote about Bernie Bickerstaff? This is another statement that falls into a "pattern" of behavior......which basically is the criteria of Behaviorism..........as you put it. I am not coming to conclusions out of thin air..........Phil Jackson has a pattern of behavior that is well documented and if you can quail your emotions for a second a try to separate the successful coach from his flawed personality traits you would be in a much better position to reach logical conclusions.

I want you to read these series of statements by Bickerstaff and relate them to Jackson's current statements about the Miami heat and draw a reasonable conclusion............since apparently you have time on your hands to research.

"So which is worse: Cutting a player with nine games left in the regular season, as Bickerstaff did with former Lakers guard Kareem Rush, or calling Kobe Bryant "uncoachable" in the pages of a best selling book?"


``He probably forgets he wrote a book for profit and (revealed everybody's confidences),'' Bickerstaff told the Charlotte (N.C.) Observer. ``So he has no credibility.''


Bickerstaff, the Bobcats' coach and general manager, sarcastically added: ``Phil has that ability (to judge). He was in our locker room ... at our games.''

Doesn't these statements sound strikingly familiar to these statements by Van Gundy

"Phil has no idea what the Van Gundy situation was because, even though he coaches in our league, he certainly had no insight or knowledge of that," Van Gundy said Wednesday. "So an analogy he'd make to my situation would be totally useless because he doesn't have any clue what the situation was in that case."


If this isn't a pattern of behavior I don't no what is................Care to address it?

"(d) someone who uses the testimony of an ex-wife as incriminating evidence of Phil's inability to think. Unfortunately, that kind of evidence just confirms your hypothesis. If you want to actually have something testable and empirically viable, you ought to attempt to disconfirm your hypothesis about Phil.


If you knew anything about the nature of a women you would know that women study men.............especially the ones they are married to............they have to in order to achieve their desires.........since they can't simply over power you....................Remember it was Delilah that brought down Sampson..........because she studied him when she was next to him. You think any women worth her salt doesn't know her husband's patterns............after 24 years? She's probably one of the best sources.


BTW............I will mention Phil Jackson when KOBE wins another championship about as much as the media mentions K.C. Jones when they speak about Larry Bird's championships.

What do you think of that LRob?

KC Jones should not be mentioned in same breath as Phil Jackson...

Without PJ...Kobe does not have 5 rings...

Auburn getting worked in the Iron Bowl...

Bama 17 Auburn 0...

Hey guys we got a new post up

Medina,


I beg your pardon...................my post had no profanity in it...................unless you call "F@$%^" profanity. Or B.S. profanity. Which one of these is profanity because I've seen a lot worse on this blog

Seely_Iggy answering the roll call. Thanks mamba24 :)

It's game day and against Utah, one of my favorite opponents. I love us playing Utah - they play tough but with none of the trashtalking BS the Denver Thuggets dish out. And I love Deron Williams' game (if I can just look pass his bowl haircut).

I think this time our boys will clean up the glass. Pau, I'm sure will want to come back strong after the Bull stinker of a game. Lamar, well, Lamar's gonna be Lamar. Last game he played well but appeared tired, so the 2 days of rest and light practice hopefully will get him ready for Utah. No Carlos Boozer, but they still got Mehmet Okur and Fesenko. Okur's pretty good, but neither of them have the kind of bull dog tenacity Noah has that sends Pau into occassional tailspins.

We definitely need to put a body on Paul Milsap, the guy's just smokin' hot. And finally, I really wanna see Kobe stick it to Raja Bell. Get him to see what he missed out on when he turned down Lakers and the Black Mamba for Utah.

MM: LOVE the great collection of links you put up today, especially Dwyer's and Wojnarowski's articles.

Tom Daniels: Congrats for the RCOTD, well-written and well-deserved.

See you folks later in the chat room for the Jazz game.

Pfunk -

I read your post. Again, perhaps you should try to disconfirm your hypothesis instead of reiterating the same tired argument.

Disjointed? Took me all day? Surely *you* jest! I've spend the majority of my day working on a paper on qualitative confirmation (Specifically, Hempel and the raven paradox, and whether it is problematic for his account). However, I'll take a small break to address your post, solely because you are all over the map.

You keep trying to reinforce your hypothesis just through confirmation, which is nice, but does nowhere the job that disconfirmation does for a hypothesis. You reiterated that there are people who (even though they have never been coached by Phil Jackson) say that they know about his credibility and about how good of a coach he is. What would disconfirm your hypothesis about Phil Jackson would be to find examples of people who actually think that what he does as a coach is worthwhile. Most likely your best bet would be players that have played for him.

In addition, 3 pieces of evidence does not a pattern make. You would need more data to try to establish a pattern, and even then there are a whole host of logically compossible alternatives for a given data set. Have you read about underdetermination in science (also known as the Duhem-Quine thesis)? Duhem was a physicist in the 1900s, and he had something profound to say about patterns and evidence in physics (and by extension, science). Feel free to read this when you get a moment: http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/scientific-underdetermination/

And I find it mildly strange (to say the least) that you allude to knowing the "nature" of a women, as if they are all alike. There have been plenty of terrible, misguided and damaging arguments made with the form "I know the nature of *insert specific group here*, and so this is how they act..." because it implicitly assumes that all members of a group act in the same manner. That's a pretty misguided way of thinking, and it is unfortunate that you would trot out something so arcane as justification of the strength of your evidence. This is especially so when you use a story in the Bible as infallible evidence for support of your theory.

Humor me for a moment; if you think I'm wrong, what then, exactly, is the nature of a woman?

So, in short, you did nothing to try to disconfirm your hypothesis. Apparently you can't be wrong about Phil Jackson (not that you're *actually right* though). There are two things that are necessary and sufficient for being successful in the NBA (besides health) - a team needs great players AND a great system to win championships.

I recommend that you do some symbolic logic so that you can understand concepts of soundness and validity. You might want to check this book out: http://www.amazon.com/Logic-Book-Merrie-Bergmann/dp/007353563X/ref=pd_sim_b_1

Do have a good day!

Caliphilosopher,

Heavy sigh!

You're a funny dude.

You disappoint me! Does anyone know what this guy said? Reading your post is like looking at the new IRS tax code guide. Does the person exist that can understand it?

They should just simply say......."We're stealing all your money..........if you let us".......it would make for better reading.


Great diversion post however, I see you have studied Phil..............use big words and hope everyone forgets the original subject matter.

hey phil jackson has been in this league for more than 2 decades and in front of the mike before and after almost every game and he does interviews on talk shows as well. With all the that, is that all you got? Phil said something about kobe in high school and something about Kareem rush? And some obscure statement from an ex-wife 20 years ago? Is that it? Thats your mountain of evidence?

Phil just said something that was obviously on everyones mind. I wonder how much time this Miami coach has. Certainly its not going to be james, or wade that will be fired. SVG is just upset cus he is still trying to spin his getting fired as a family leave. No Stan, you got fired cus you team with Shaq and Wade had about the same record as the Heat do now. Ok, ok stan, i don't have inside information. You can say its about spending time with your family. I guess you family is not need when you are coaching a top 3 team in the east. Only when your losing below expectations.

Phil was asked a question and said what he thought, which is obvious to everyone else except SVG and Wade.

C. River


I think 3 statements is enough to establish pattern. If you found your neighbor killed 3 people in a similar manner..............do you have to wait until a fourth body is found to come to the conclusion this guy MAY be a serial killer?

Uhhhh, 3 is enough for me.....thank you

Phil just throw another jab at SVG.

@Seely_Iggy, You're welcome, see you at game chat. Carry On!

I think 3 statements is enough to establish pattern. If you found your neighbor killed 3 people in a similar manner..............do you have to wait until a fourth body is found to come to the conclusion this guy MAY be a serial killer? Uhhhh, 3 is enough for me.....thank you Posted by: pfunk36 | November 26, 2010 at 01:04 PM
*
Pfunk36, really, don't you think just a touch overly dramatic? but you have made some good points. Not Knockout blows, but good points.

a fascinating article on breaking the Heat's defense: http://nba-point-forward.si.com/2010/11/23/heat-check-miamis-defense-shows-cracks/#
Posted by: hobbitmage | November 26, 2010 at 11:39 AM
*
Another great article HobbitMage!! You have been on a roll this past week sir!! Happy Holidays HobbitMage!
*
@NewMexicoLL, Thank you ma'am and Happy Holidays to you and your family. Good post!

With all due respect to Tom Daniels, IMO pfunk36 deserves RCOTD.

I especially liked this line: "separate the successful coach from his flawed personality traits."

When it comes to sports, most people can't and don't begin to separate the success from the man.

Compare Phil's ex-wife to his current girlfriend. The former did not apparently buy all of what Phil was giving. The latter looks at him with doe eyes as if he's the most brilliant man in the world. He chose the latter. Perhaps that says something about the man.

caliphilosopher: You are an embarrassment to the others on the board with philosophical training.

Pfunk36 and Caliphilosopher--

This is my take:

Pfunk36, from what I gathered, you were able to point out that PJ had made some gaffes and mistatements as a coach. However, Caliphilospher wins this argument because your statements were overly broad and suffer from fatal flaws. Caliphilosopher questioned the weaknesses in your premises and you couldn't respond to them. I also think that Caliphilosopher's second response is unnecessarily long and prolix. In sum, everyone knows that PJ sometimes makes irresponsible statements but not all of them are dumb.

Pfunk -

Just because they are big words doesn't mean that people don't get them. I disappoint you? How so? I didn't try to obfuscate anything. All I said was that you have a hypothesis that you don't try to falsify, and yet you claim to be saying something truthful. Have you even tried to understand the things that I posted? Dismissing them (or avoiding them altogether) does not mean that you're right about things.

And trying to draw an analogy between your cherry-picked "data" to a hypothetical serial killer is ridiculously tenuous (at best). There are WAY more than 3 statements about how good of a coach Phil is that make your 3 negative examples look like drops in a bucket. So let's not start with sheer numbers.

Without an honest attempt at falsification, your hypothesis is logically equivalent to an emerald being "grue" instead of "green" (Nelson Goodman - "Fact, Fiction and Forecast").

Socrates -


Sometimes, I do end up being verbose, and if I could have been more concise, I apologize. I posted during breaks I took while writing a paper, so it might be a long read...

And as to those of you who think that without PJ, the Lakers would not have won all those championships:

Do you really think that PJ was the "only" coach who could have done it?

You don't think that Greg Popovich could have coached those Laker teams to championships?

You don't think that Larry Brown could have coached those Laker teams to championships?

You don't think that Pat Reilly could have coached those Laker teams to xhampionships?

You don't think that Jerry Sloan could have coached those Laker teams to championships?

Please.

Sure, compared to his predecessors as Laker head coach, Phil does look like a genius. Del Harris? Randy Pfund? The young Kurt Rambis? The older, broken Rudy T? ---That just shows that Jerry Buss was mistaken in thinking that "anyone" could coach a team with that much talent.

Props to Phil that he won with the most talented team in the league each year that he won. There are plenty of other coaches who could not have done it.

But Phil managed to lose to Larry Brown in 2004. And he managed to lose to Doc Rivers on 2008. And the jury remains out whether he could have got so much out of their teams as Sloan, Reilly, Popovich and Brown fotnout of theirs.

Usually with far less drama.

Should be "got out of theirs"

Socrates

I guess Caliphilosopher "blinded you with science" because according to you he won the debate over a point....................I never presented!!

I never argued If Phil was a good coach or not...............at least not in these post. My position with Medina and now Caliphilosopher was and is that Phil's statements about the Miami heat were distasteful and disrespectful and the statements were further exacerbated but Phil's utter lack of empirical knowledge about his subject matter.

I even supported this assertion by directing your attention to 3 other statements that Phil Jackson similarly made in the past.

Caliphilosopher never addressed those statements and their similarity and nor did you. Kobe's highschool coach, Bernie Bickerstaff and Stan Van Gundy all agree with me, that Phil's statements are way over the top at best and wreckless and irresponsible at worst...............thus Phil's recent apology.

Phil knew he was wrong when he said it, but Phil can't help himself...............Most of you believe Phil has discovered some rare abstract computer chip that will lead the new nanotechnology revolution. I say Phil is an ex-hippie turned ordinary guy who has enjoyed an extraordinary ride on the backs of two of the greatest players of successive era's. I mean we should check the soles of his Birkenstock sandals and I bet we'll find a four leaf clover.............I don't know what the clover will smell like...............but I digress


Can U top this:

"I say Phil is an ex-hippie turned ordinary guy who has enjoyed an extraordinary ride on the backs of two of the greatest players of successive era's. I mean we should check the soles of his Birkenstock sandals and I bet we'll find a four leaf clover.............I don't know what the clover will smell like...............but I digress"

RCOTD is not sufficient recognition ...

MM,

Thanks for the RCOTD. Very kind of you.


On Pau and Lamar, the impressive thing to me about them is that they are two long, talented players. But they are both power forwards who are light on the whole "power" thing. Yet somehow they overcome that and function well together as a CENTER and a PF.

Tom D.

jimjoyce -

You have philosophical training? I'd love to hear about it.

Phil knew he was wrong when he said it, but Phil can't help himself...............Most of you believe Phil has discovered some rare abstract computer chip that will lead the new nanotechnology revolution. I say Phil is an ex-hippie turned ordinary guy who has enjoyed an extraordinary ride on the backs of two of the greatest players of successive era's. I mean we should check the soles of his Birkenstock sandals and I bet we'll find a four leaf clover.............I don't know what the clover will smell like...............but I digress

And you have evidence that 50% +1 believe that Phil has discovered some rare abstract computer chip (as if those things are to be discovered in the natural world)?

You miss the point - you only find confirming evidence for your hypothesis, and yet you offer no way to falsify it. That is the problem.

And Phil is an ordinary guy who has rode a wave of success? Please. That is just ignorant in and of itself.

Men too are affected badly by divorce (if their wife files for it).

Most of you believe Phil has discovered some rare abstract computer chip that will lead the new nanotechnology revolution.


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