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Michael vs. Kobe: Who's better?

Coach Phil Jackson gets asked the question every once in a while and is often reluctant to go into great detail with his answer.

Who's better: Michael Jordan or Kobe Bryant?

It came up again thousands of miles from Los Angeles, after the Lakers practiced in Barcelona, Spain, on Day Six of their eight-game European trek.

"Well, I guess I'd be about as good a judge as anybody on that, having been able to coach both those players," Jackson said. "Great competitors. Similarities in their game are great. Perhaps the eras have changed a little bit...."

Then he got a little less politically correct.

"We love the idea that it could happen, that Kobe could win a sixth ring. I'm sure Michael is watching with great anticipation as to how it's going to come out too."

It was one of many developments Wednesday, which included a practice session at Palau Sant Jordi ... sort of.

"We're doing pretty good in the 'NBA Cares' clinics, but we're not doing so great with our own practices," said Jackson, who has maintained all along that the Lakers' exhibition season would be ruined because of the trip to Europe.

"I had five guys miss the team bus this morning. I blame Pau [Gasol] for that, but we won't hold it against him. He took them out last night and showed them some of the sights of Barcelona. We got a little bit behind the eight ball on this trip."

Bryant said he would play in Thursday's exhibition against Regal FC Barcelona but did not say how long he would stay on the court. He played only six minutes in the team's exhibition opener against the Minnesota Timberwolves on Monday in London.

Bryant also said he would strongly consider playing for FC Barcelona after his NBA playing days were behind him.

"At the end of my career, if I really sat down and thought about coming over to Europe and playing, Barcelona has to be [up there]," he said. "It's just such a beautiful place, a beautiful oganization."

There were some injury developments as well. Reserve forward Derrick Caracter sustained a sprained ankle at Wednesday's practice, said Jackson, who also acknowledged limiting reserve center Theo Ratliff's practice time because of knee tendinitis.

Finally, Jackson was asked yet again if he would be back next season. He said no but left just enough of a small opening, as he has done since the season began.

"I really don't have any intention of coaching," he said. "Of course, you can never say never in this game. There's just too many opportunities."

-- Mike Bresnahan

 
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I think at this point in time MJ still a bit better but it will change soon as KOBE retire preparably with 7-8 championship then will have the debate again skill wise KOBE is far more superior than MJ...

I think at this point in time MJ still a bit better but it will change soon as KOBE retire preparably with 7-8 championship then will have the debate again skill wise KOBE is far more superior than MJ...Posted by: Adrian Palomar | October 06, 2010 at 06:55 AM
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Although I hate, I say HATE the man so much I cannot even say his name, for snubbing my dad, at this point I'll go along with you Adrian.

Good Morning Laker Family...

Just chillin till tomorrow's game...Good to see the bandwagon work, and it will be on ESPN2...

LRob - This is what I got today...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJX3uTA-X2A

Lakers Dynasty - The Next Generation...

#17 Coming Up!!!

Posted by: LEWSTRS | October 06, 2010 at 07:16 AM

Manong Adrian, were you at the lakers game @ O2? sana nag meet up tayo...I'm still in London...will be here til next week...

GOOOOD MORNING Lakerland! Nice strong way to start us off this morning MM. I'm sure this topic will get the blood flowing. A special shout out to Mamba24, nice to see you this morning bro.

I never liked MJ. I think his game was unique and it came at a time that the league didn't have enough strong "Teams". And please don't bring that Pistons stuff being bad boys and defensive bruts.

I will admit that my dislike (and therefore disrespect) for him has more to do with him personally than his actual game. He is/was a champion, but I hated what he represented. A trash talking Alpha male that everyone wanted to be like. For me, I want to respect people. I admire those that respect others and the game itself.

If Charles Barkley had MJ skills and dominated the game, would we all want to be like him? No. In the same fashion, MJ represented to me what I see in Jon K's posts about wanna be gangsters and the dark side of Rap. To me, that belongs in the same conversation as MJ and what we admire in a man.

Magic was it for me. MJ wanted his mantle, plain and simple. MJ didn't care about the consequences. I hate the guy. Magic is more like the person I admire and want to emulate. I admit that Magic has his own demons, but I loved him.

Please spare me all the statistics and rhetoric. If you respond with statistics, we will simply have a circular conversation.

If Charles Barkley had MJ skills and dominated the game, would we all want to be like him? No. In the same fashion, MJ represented to me what I see in Jon K's posts about wanna be gangsters and the dark side of Rap. To me, that belongs in the same conversation as MJ and what we admire in a man.
Magic was it for me. MJ wanted his mantle, plain and simple. MJ didn't care about the consequences. I hate the guy. Magic is more like the person I admire and want to emulate. I admit that Magic has his own demons, but I loved him. Please spare me all the statistics and rhetoric. If you respond with statistics, we will simply have a circular conversation. Posted by: JohnnyV | October 06, 2010 at 07:31 AM
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Good morning Johnny V, how you be? Let's just dispense with the formalities...OUT FREAKIN STANDING SIR!

Adrian pare...

This one is dedicated to you and your new baby...may your tribe grow and fly purple and gold...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDhCtwr6W2U

That's the way of the world
Plant your flower and you grow a pearl
A child is born with a heart of gold

iheartkb24 pare...

Good to see my Pinoy brothers representing in London...Can you find decent Flip food there...

Lakers Dynasty - The Next Generation...

#17 Coming Up!!!

LROB & LEWSTRS JAMMIN IN THE MORNING FOLKS!!!

If Kobe wins a sixth ring...will it be enough to be considered better than Michael Jordan...I think it comes down to preference of player...

You can have a stat war all you want...but I would have to say Kobe...Following and cheering his whole career, makes it understandable...

Lakers Dynasty - The Next Generation...

#17 Coming Up!!!

When MJ can do this then he'll be the Greatest http://tinyurl.com/6n3gwg

When MJ can do this then he'll be the Greatest http://tinyurl.com/6n3gwg

Posted by: MAMBA24 | October 06, 2010 at 07:47 AM

******

NICE...you tell em Mamba Broham...

Lakers Dynasty - The Next Generation...

#17 Coming Up!!!

And MJ Damn sure never did this
http://tinyurl.com/ckfwkj

Kobe has better basketball skills, Michael had better athleticism. They both have an unmatched killer instinct and drive to win. Because MJ has much larger hands, he could take it to the hoop w/o losing the ball like Kobe sometimes does. Kobe has a much better outside shot and longer range on the jumper. Its pretty tough to pick one over the other.

Johnny V. You are right with your observation to start the day with blood flowing w/ daring question of the trite comparison between a past and present. Are the bloggers getting smarter by not taking the bait? Did PJ answer the question?I don't think so, he just made politically correct statements: "Great competitors. Similarities in their game are great. Perhaps the eras have changed a little bit...." however we are expected to discuss it all over again to encourage traffic. Is MJ relevant in this game or even Kobe who will be playing limited time due rehab status? Is the preseason story about MJ vs Kobe or it is about DC, EB, Blake, Barnes and Ratliff how will they improve this team based on actual showings? Or the chances of the other players getting the 15th slot vs. keep it vacant.

LOL, Thank you Lewstrs my brother. You and LRob are jammin this morning as usual! Good stuff gentlemen!

JohnnyV - I appreciate the love, but give credit to Mike Bresnahan on this one. He's in London right now filing these reports. My take is MJ is the better player, but Kobe has accomplished more in a shorter shelf life. Phil is right that their games are similar and they went through similar treks in trying to do too much on their own versus properly channeling their immense talent and elevating their teammates. But there's a tad difference. Kobe experienced immediate success, then hit adversity and then bounced back. Michael went through adversity, then went through success and continued onward after coming back.

AND MJ DAMN SURE NEVER DID THIS:

http://tinyurl.com/2bhpl7u

Door 1: LeBron James -

Preseason - Monster, impressive and dominating...
Regular Season - League leader, most wins, 2 MVPs...
Playoffs/Finals - Under achiever, quitter, 0-4 Finals, failure...

Door 2: Kobe Bryant -

Preseason - Resting, Courtesy appearances, chilling...
Regular Season - Doing work, pacing for playoffs, takin care of business...
Playoffs/Finals - What he was born to do, clutch, leadership 7 Finals, 5 Rings, 3peat, 2 back2backs, 2 MVPs...

Which door do you choose...

Lakers Dynasty - The Next Generation...

#17 Coming Up!!!


They're the same player. There are no chinks in their armor. They have both mastered every facet of the game and they both have that indeterminable will to win, a rare trait that is reserved only for the greatest competitors at the highest possible level in any sport. It's a tie.

Door 1: LeBron James -

Preseason - Monster, impressive and dominating...
Regular Season - League leader, most wins, 2 MVPs...
Playoffs/Finals - Under achiever, quitter, 0-4 Finals, failure...

Door 2: Kobe Bryant -

Preseason - Resting, Courtesy appearances, chilling...
Regular Season - Doing work, pacing for playoffs, takin care of business...
Playoffs/Finals - What he was born to do, clutch, leadership 7 Finals, 5 Rings, 3peat, 2 back2backs, 2 MVPs...

Which door do you choose...Posted by: LEWSTRS | October 06, 2010 at 08:00 AM
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LMAO!!! Damnit LEWSTRS, how many times do I have to tell you, Princess Jimmy is keeping Notes!!! OUT FREAKIN STANDING SIR!!!

OH SWEET JESUS PLEASE!!! http://tinyurl.com/qs93ky

phil didn't really answer the question, did he??....he is the ONLY PERSON in the game that has the credibility to compare and analyze these two players....but even he won't give a straight answer....perhaps he's saving it for a book when he and kobe retires.....that would be a brilliant move....

for now....mj....after june 2011 (6th ring), kobe/mj equal....after june 2012 (barring lockout, 7th ring)....kobe.....this will be debated for the next 50 years, similar to the 2pac/biggie debate.....

but they both take a back-seat to magic....truly the greatest of all time....

ARGHHH - stop right there - please - for the love of god - no more Kobe vs MJ discussions....

Can we get back to what's going on with our team and all these freaking injuries so early? This has me more interested than what MJ thinks about Kobe getting more rings than him.

Who the hell cares what MJ thinks? He can go do another underwear commercial for all I care.... punk.

What? Did I just read Phil implying that MJ is NERVOUS??? Wow, should b headline news on ESPN. But it wont be, cuz ESPN are purely in MJ's court or more inclined just to hate Kobe.....

The Bulls came within one blown last second call of the NBA finals the year Mike played baseball.

Would these Lakers get to the finals without 24? uh, no.

Who the hell cares what MJ thinks? He can go do another underwear commercial for all I care.... punk. Posted by: justanothermambafan | October 06, 2010 at 08:12 AM
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LMAO! WOW! Just tell us how you really feel!

LEWSTR - lol hindi ako pare, mare ako...

MJ is still on top cause of his defense. Kobe however still has a few more chapters to write....so game not over yet!

@Lew - You're batting 1,000 this morning. Santana will certainly help me have a perfect day!

@Mamba - stop with the MJ torture...please!

Good morning,

Hard not to weigh in on this one. I was in Chicago when the Bulls/MJ/PhilJax et al celebrated that big second 3-peat in Grant Park. I was in charge of the Fox station's live 5-hour coverage of the celebration, and what a morning in was! The city couldn't have been on a bigger high. It was the most fun I ever had doing live television.

What MJ, Phil, Pippen and their team accomplished couldn't have been more impressive. Not just in terms of basketball, but in terms of making people feel good.

While MJ didn't do it alone, where he stood in the basketball pantheon couldn't have been higher.

For the last two years, I was lucky enough to go to the Lakers' championship celebrations here in Downtown LA. What a thrill! A Lakers second 3-peat would be unbelievable. But here in LA, sports always runs a sloppy second to the Oscars, Golden Globes, and Emmy Awards.

What Kobe does for the Lakers is absolutely comparable to what MJ did for the Bulls, the NBA, and basketball in general, but the recognition will never be equal. The purpose of this long preamble is simple. Comparisons are irrelevant. Their achievements are seen through different prisms. To me, nothing could be more unfair.

Watching Kobe over all his now many Lakers seasons is as thrilling as it gets. His talent, his skills, his work ethic, his growth before our very eyes makes my jaw drop in awe. The Kobe vs MJ debate will never end, regardless of what he accomplishes in the future. I simply don't care about it. As a fan, I cherish every time Kobe takes the court. I'm impressed. I'm inspired. I'm lucky he plays for my team, the Lakers. I'll leave it there.

iheartkb24 -

So so sorry...that's twice I did that...forgive me please...

No, another Andrew-gate day...

Phil doesn't know what phrases like "limited minute career" triggers 'round here.

Not the headline we want to wake up to, Phil.

"lol hindi ako pare, mare ako... "translation: I'm not a man but a woman, friend. heartbreak!

@Mamba - stop with the MJ torture...please! Posted by: LRob | October 06, 2010 at 08:23 AM
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ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!

When MJ can do this then he'll be the Greatest http://tinyurl.com/6n3gwg

Posted by: MAMBA24 | October 06, 2010 at 07:47 AM

THAT'S what I'm talkin' 'bout!

@JohnnyV, your points were brilliant as well.

BTW, I never liked MJ as a player, and just when I was about to warm up to him as a person/role model, all the other stuff about his personality came to light. I have much respect for the man, though. Gobs of it.

--FEARless

Watching Kobe over all his now many Lakers seasons is as thrilling as it gets. His talent, his skills, his work ethic, his growth before our very eyes makes my jaw drop in awe. The Kobe vs MJ debate will never end, regardless of what he accomplishes in the future. I simply don't care about it. As a fan, I cherish every time Kobe takes the court. I'm impressed. I'm inspired. I'm lucky he plays for my team, the Lakers. I'll leave it there. Posted by: Rick Friedman | October 06, 2010 at 08:26 AM
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JUST GIVE HIM THE RCOTD. GIVE IT TO HIM RIGHT NOW!!!!!!

AND MJ DAMN SURE NEVER DID THIS:

http://tinyurl.com/2bhpl7u

Posted by: MAMBA24 | October 06, 2010 at 08:00 AM

Great post. To wit; since it is generally accepted that MJ played his game with less degree of difficulty for most of his career (he stayed around the rim for years), why didn't MJ do something like that at least once?

--FEARless

PLG -

Congrats on the Randy Moss pick up...Farve to Moss...deadly...

Lakers Dynasty - The Next Generation...

#17 Coming Up!!!

Hey bosssirman . how was it? also check this thing out . http://sportscomplainer.com my sports manag. prof. told me about it. think its new. ..tom..

I think if we don't include Drew's knees in the conversation between MJ & KB, then it's completely null and void.

As for the Lakers "trying hard" in preseason. Jeeze, they're traveling through Europe trying to get into shape. Preseason is slow enough with guys working their way into playing shape, trying out new players, etc., and now you add traveling around Europe? Gimme a break.

Preseason has always been about getting into shape, NOT getting injured, and preparing the chemistry for the regular season. I've had the good fortune to play in a couple of charity games with NBA players, and lemme tell ya... except for the occasional play, they're NOT playing full out. Why should they? And the fans shouldn't expect it. Preseason's the same thing: play to get loose, play to get in shape, but don't kill yourself or you'll pull a hammy like DWade, or break a hand like Boozer (not in a game, but still counts as preseason).

If the rooks get some burn, everyone stays healthy, and the players work into some kind of form before the season (hard to do when traveling through Europe - thanks Stern!), then I'm happy. Don't care if they lose all the games as long was those things are accomplished.

Before I even read this blog, I want to give an answer solely off the title Question alone: Michael vs. Kobe? Well the answer is obvious.


Michael has the BIGGER legacy, BETTER agility, and SICKER vocals.
I've never even seen Kobe moonwalk.


Michael Jackson all the way.

Rick F. - well said friend. I feel the same. Comparisons are inevitable but different times.

The bigger and more salacious news is Pau taking the guys out and 5 of them missing the team bus! That's the news story. That's good stuff.

I love that these guys get a local's tour of Barcelona - there is nothing better. Knowing Barcelona's crazy night life - it starts well after midnight - those guys were probably up all night and into daylight.

Do we dare tread on Bresnahan's AB article? Very disappointing that the little bits and pieces (like AB's cartilage) keep coming out about this surgery. They are not talking rehab at all anymore - now it's about saving his career. One that never really got started IMHO.

Cheers - Shannon

Michael was liked by many, Kobe is disliked by many. In that regard MJ is better. Kobe is not done yet, he was loved when he was young, loss it in the middle, and regaining it his twilight with his durabilty to play for 15 years and more while still dominant after all these years, if he can hold and play at this level for three more years and win 3 more championships on his 17th year. KOBE has earned his way back the hardest way ever and will be rewarded as the Black Mamba, king of all kings.


One thing I know Magic and Bird was better because they have the complete package, everything that Kobe and MJ had in terms of will plus they made their teams better.. The great NBA era started with this two legends..


There was Julius Erving, Michael Jordan, Kobe Braynt, Lebron James, Kevin Durant,...... Individual great phenoms who wowed their fans of that era, but there will never ever be another Bird and Magic! Boston vs Lakers! 3 rings for Bird and 5 for Magic in a decade of greatness... Oh wait Kobe, did also Boston vs Lakers 1-1! Oh wait, he did also a Wilt, 81 pts, he also did Spurs 4, Lakers 4 in a decade and still counting another decade... Lakers 1, for now.


There was Julius Erving, Michael Jordan, Kobe Braynt, Lebron James, Kevin Durant,...... Individual great phenoms who wowed their fans of that era, but there will never ever be another Bird and Magic! Boston vs Lakers! 3 rings for Bird and 5 for Magic in a decade of greatness... Oh wait Kobe, did also Boston vs Lakers 1-1! Oh wait, he did also a Wilt, 81 pts, he also did Spurs 4, Lakers 4 in a decade and still counting another decade... Lakers 1, for now. Posted by: Staples 24 | October 06, 2010 at 08:49 AM
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OK, OK...OUT FREAKIN STANDING SIR!!

BTW, I never liked MJ as a player, and just when I was about to warm up to him as a person/role model, all the other stuff about his personality came to light. I have much respect for the man, though. Gobs of it. Posted by: FEARless | October 06, 2010 at 08:33 AM
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You are a better person than I Fearless and Kudos to you!!

Vman,

"Not the headline we want to wake up to, Phil."

Phil did not volunteer the comparison but he was asked to compare as always nor he created this headline. During Chick Hearn's time, how many times have we heard him compare Magic to Big O? how many times did we hear him compare Magic to Larry Bird? However, we all knew everything about Magic from Lansing, MI and Larry from French Lick, IN a very informative discussion before Wikipedia broke their stories. How many broadcaster today can direct their producer/director like Susan Stratton on what should be the topic of day? Once the game is on play, Chick highlights the game itself with gusto in the play by play announcing never been heard before even though it was really a boring game. He described all the opponents as worthy players who could defeat the Lakers and what the Lakers should do to win the game. He tells the story honestly as they relate to the game and doesn't really care what the other networks headline. Of course, there is only one Chick Hearn and so far I have not seen a reporter, broadcaster who took over his place in the hearts of every Laker fan. Every beginning of the season, I always look for the Hearn look alike, unfortunately nobody copied Chick but surely replicated Brent Musburger fascination of ratings.

MJ vs. Kobe.

Russell vs. Chamberlain.

Magic vs. Bird.

Coke vs. Pepsi.

Family Ties vs. Growing Pains

It doesn't matter because each one is better than the other in various categories and accomplishments. The one big difference is that Kobe is compared to one of the greatest of all time from a totally different era, rather than a contemporary opponent of his own era. That in itself is quite and honor. I'd rather be compared to my dad than my brother any time. MJ and Kobe have extensive bodies of work, but trying to split every hair (other than the +1 ring for MJ) is tedious and irrelevant. MJ was fortunate to have a relatively healthy career (after his broken foot in his second year), a great young supporting cast, a revolutionary coaching staff, and the slight advantage of youth over the likes of Bird, Magic, and Dr. J. Remember, by 1992, all three of his most powerful opponents were retired or on the way out. Even Isiah Thomas was on the downside of his career. Sure the Bulls met Clyde, Barkley, Payton, Malone, and Stockton in the Finals... but that's like Kobe vs. Carmelo; a second tier star that is thisclose to reaching the next level. We can only wonder if someone, or some team, really could've challenged Mike, things would be different. MJ had a perfect storm of success in the 1990s, but also benefited from his marketability with Nike, and the like. In contrast, Mike's bravado may be frowned upon nowadays because of cultural shifts in opinion. Like I've said before, Kobe will never be fully appreciated until he has been away from the game for a while. Then, the cream will rise, and the true hoops purists will recognize him for the great player he is; without any bias or preconceived notions from individual loyalties to a team or player. We are witnesses to greatness, and our unbridled fanaticism and undaunting adoration will be substantiated by Kobe's glaring absence after retiring and the resulting quality decline within the League. People will then be looking for the next Kobe Bryant. Watch, you'll see.

DBDH!

We are witnesses to greatness, and our unbridled fanaticism and undaunting adoration will be substantiated by Kobe's glaring absence after retiring and the resulting quality decline within the League. People will then be looking for the next Kobe Bryant. Watch, you'll see.Posted by: Don't Blame Del Harris! | October 06, 2010 at 08:58 AM
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DBDH, This is one time I will proudly be a "WITNESS"! GREAT POST SIR!!!!!

Kobe
Wilt
Magic
Pepsi
Family Ties

Kobe
Wilt
Magic
Pepsi
Family Ties Posted by: justanothermambafan | October 06, 2010 at 09:04 AM
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Obviously a woman of good Taste.

iheartkb24 -

Mare this is dedicated to you...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNOoxoENsfs

Lakers Dynasty - The Next Generation...

#17 Coming Up!!!

Psyched,

>>> Do we dare tread on Bresnahan's AB article? Very disappointing that the little bits and pieces (like AB's cartilage) keep coming out about this surgery. They are not talking rehab at all anymore - now it's about saving his career. One that never really got started IMHO.

I've been mulling this one myself. I'm not at all anxious for full-scale war to break out here, which is why I've been reluctant to touch it. What makes me nervous is that this is all leaking out in dribs and drabs. What is there to come that we haven't been told yet? Just as important, why wasn't there full and prompt disclosure from the beginning? If other "shoes" are going to "drop," what are they?

It is reasonable to assume that the Lakers' front office is trying to get to the bottom of this. They won't admit it, I'm sure, but no doubt they are none too pleased. There is no reason for this to become a cloud hanging over the team, when the opportunity before us is so promising. I just hope it doesn't become a distraction to the 3-peat everyone is working towards.

justanothermambafan- you are a tough customer to please! don't worry we got a post about andrew bynum coming up

MM

@ Rick Friedman,

I bow down, sir. Much love. Your post was a mirror of my thoughts. After posting my 2 cents, I read yours. We are blessed, indeed.

RCOTD to Rick.

I will ride to the mists of Avalon with you, sir!

DBDH!

I think another interesting wrinkle to the debate is what Rick brought up regarding likeability. Michael and Kobe both are equal of having engaging public personas but both have narcissistic qualities. Michael's wasn't exposed as much perhaps until the tail end of his career and certainly his HOF speech because he was at the peak of the era where he enjoyed the benefits of endorsements and commercialization without the scrutiny. Obviously Kobe didn't have that luxury. That being said, I feel like MJ is more sadistic than Kobe. Even though Kobe's got a fiery demeanor on the court and gets in mood swings, that seems to be his state of mind playing basketball. Notice how much more pleasant he was during the off-season. I don't think he'll be as mean spirited in his HOF speech as MJ was, although I am sure it'll have a few digs at Shaq

@ justa,

Yes! Family Ties. Mallory Keaton, MEOW! Tina Yothers? Not so much.

DBDH!

DBDH - not my reasoning, but hey - whatever works for you!

MM - I just think the injuries and health of this team is a much bigger concern to us than another Kobe/MJ debate...

MM,

For the record, it was Staples24 and Fearless who posted about likeability. Credit to those to whom credit is due.

Mamba24, Psyched, and DBDH,

Thanks for the props. Every day is a great day to be a Lakers fan.

Both MJ and KB are great. KB isn't done yet. If KB quit today MJ is greater. But he isn't quitting today, is he?

MJ's gambling killed his dad. Sad, but true.

@ MM:

Yeah, that HOF speech was something else. (dry heave)


[dbdh]

Morning Haiku:

Kobe or MJ...
Moon is in the seventh house...
Kobe all the way...

Lakers Dynasty - The Next Generation...

#17 Coming Up!!!

Clearly Bresnahan is trying to give Mamba24 a stroke with this topic.

Just watched Monday's game. Major take away? I don't much enjoy watching maeaningless and sloppy early preseason games.


Of course it was interesting watching the new guys - they looked promising overall. But basically it was 48 minutes of garbage time and hard to judge anyone.


I think the Wolves will be better this year. I hope so for Kurt's sake, he can't lose any more hair.

Justa,

keep it going because it already produced 60 posts. there are quotas for the day like traffic ticets. will discussion of DC and EB produce that much posts? Nope, so let's talk about bynum, walton & kobe injuries to rile the dissenter...... tho' preseason is about the newbies but we need stories about injuries, sadism and narcissism to excite the audience. indeed we are really in preseason mode. LMAO!

Morning Haiku:

Kobe or MJ...
Moon is in the seventh house...
Kobe all the way...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06X5HYynP5E

Lakers Dynasty - The Next Generation...

#17 Coming Up!!!

To me Johnny V. Said it all.

JR

I think Phil Jackson will say who's better after he retires, and I will believe him.

Rick - totally agreed. It's a distraction that the latest news comes out across the ocean thinking it might not be picked up as much.

Justa - we are thinking the same. Injuries at this point are already glaring:

Luke - questionable for season
Kobe - @ 60% scary that he is acknowledging this in public
AB - now comparing to Yao Ming??? Extremely concerning.
Theo - tendinitis - wasn't supposed to be a big minute guy

Thank goodness Pau did get rest this Summer but I don't think any of us were counting on him playing C all season and LO playing PF. We thought we had a bench but it's looking like the bench is clearly going to get starter minutes. We need Theo now much more than playoffs. And Ebanks has to come up to speed quickly.

Wouldn't surprise me if Lakers kept Naymick at this point. If he plays a lot of minutes in Barcelona - they are clearly looking to keep him on board as an additional back-up at the F and C position.

Maybe I am reading too much into all this but none of this sounds in any way good. I agree with Rick - it's starting to become a distraction which is the worst possible scenario especially when the season hasn't even started.

Lew - think you have me mixed up with someone else. I'm a tortured 49er fan hoping for a win this week......

PLG

Rick - Sorry about misreading that. And to think I was considering that to be RCOTD! lol j/k. We got a new thread up about Bynum right now

Nicely put, Rick Friedman. As for the question at hand, I believe that comparisons at this time are not appropriate since Kobe is still playing. I believe skill wise, Kobe has the upper hand hence he is the greater player. Imagine these two titans playing in their prime in the same decade. Wow. Also, if Kobe does triumph over the Heat, he has to be the greatest of all time, hands down. MJ never had to face a team with three superstars in their prime, and four Olympians on one team as Kobe has to.

@ justa,

I know it! I was justa playing. Marty McFly as a young Republican was always fun to watch. Ew, remember Michael Gross in season one without the beard? At least he was in "Tremors".

[dbdh]

Clearly Bresnahan is trying to give Mamba24 a stroke with this topic. Posted by: htj | October 06, 2010 at 09:28 AM
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LMAO! STOP IT! STOP IT NOW!

It's amazing that in a TEAM sport we have debates about individual accomplishments. We should be comparing the whole team. Traits such as, dominance, chemistry, defense, coachability, and ultimately, championships. We have individualized this sport way too much. Both franchises benefited from having exceptional players on the team, the Lakers still do. The leadership skills, and the ability to be the catalyst for the team, are the attributes that each should be compared to. At the end of the day, Kobe, final answer!

Michael Jordan never scored 81 points in a game...
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What do we play for? RINGS!!!
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Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.
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GO LAKERS!!!

i support lakers and kobe...but there is not question...mj was the best...6 finals mvp, a few regular season mvps...but kobe has time to write another chapter...

MJ is better than Kobe. There is no contest. Kobe is the best active player in the league. More telling is PJ's comment: "...There's just too many opportunities." Might he have the desire to coach the Heat next season? He's had an opportunity to coach the greatest players in the league and converted them into champions. As much as I dislike LBJ since his "race" comments, I would love to see what PJ can do with the Heat. Our Lakers will struggle without a strong presence in the center and that position appears to have been compromised this season.

GO LAKERS!!

Being a Laker fanatic my whole life, I was never much of a Jordan fan, and I resented him for years after the 1991 NBA finals. There's no doubt that he's one of the all-time greats, but I've never placed him at the top - that spot is reserved for Wilt. As between him and Kobe, they are obviously similar players. I give Kobe the edge because I think he's a better outside shooter than MJ (no, I don't know the numbers, but I'm basing on having watched both players play and make tough shots in the clutch, not just whatever the stats bear out), and in recent years he's developed his ability to run the offense and involve the team more than MJ ever did. If you put them both at their athletic peak, I think they were just about equal in their ability to slash to the basket and make highlight reel plays. I think that MJ gets hyperbolized too much and becomes more legendary as the years go by simply because people (many of whom aren't old enough to have watched his entire career) are only remembering the good stuff. MJ is great, but the truth is that he had truly great teams around him, more so than many people remember in hindsight - Pippin is an all-time great, Rodman might be the best rebounder ever and is an all-time great defender, and Steve Kerr and some others were great shooters. MJ wasn't solely responsible for all of those titles. I think Kobe has developed a better all-around game than MJ, and I think some credit must go to his longevity. MJ, for whatever reason, didn't stick around as long as Kobe. Not to mention, the Bulls never had the caliber of competition around them that the Lakers have had during the current dynasty. The Bulls didn't have teams the caliber of the Celtics and the Heat to deal with.

Finally, although certainly MJ has a better career PPG average, I think this is mitigated somewhat by (1) the fact that Kobe didn't start for the first couple of years, and (2) the presence of probably the best low-post player not named Wilt in NBA history (that Shaq guy). If you redo Kobe's career PPG to adjust for only the years he was a starter, his career average jumps. Plus, having a great player like Shaq in his prime around means that any team would have been foolish to not continually feed him the ball - it would have happened on the Bulls as well. Kobe averaged 35 ppg when he had to (2006) because there were no other reliable scorers on that team. He could have averaged over 30 in many of those other years if the situation had called for it.

If the Lakers, led by Kobe, take out the Heat to win #17 overall and #6 for Kobe and Fish, even the MJ fanatics will have to at least acknowledge that Kobe's in the same room of the hall of fame as MJ.

So overall, I'm going with Kobe. But then again, I'm biased.

Jordan is not the greatest, and never was. The reason he's not is the same reason Kobe can't be, either: neither one of them were responsible for resurrecting an entire league, not just their own team(s). In fact, none of the all timers had that responsibility. It was Magic vs Bird that brought the league to where it is today. Without that rivalry, frankly, Jordan (and Kobe) wouldn't have a league to showcase.

At the end of the day, Lakers vs Celtics is what saved the NBA. Way too often people forget that. As far as Jordan vs Kobe, Kobe overtakes him this season with a 6th ring.

Kobe
Wilt
Magic
Pepsi
Growing Who?

Justa, do not forget that I'm a disciple!

--FEARless

Both are the greatest, but they are different players. MJ is always looking to attack the basket dunking. Dunking dunking dunking! Kobe is more of a finesse player, who doesn't want to dunk the ball since that would ruin his shooting touch during the game. So it's just a matter of playing style on who to pick between them as the greatest player ever.

I love watching people attacking the basket, splitting two, three or even the entire team and still scores. So for me, there is no one greater at doing that than MJ. My vote goes to Michael Jordan. Hands down. No contest.

Michael or Kobe, who is better???

Phil Jackson watched them every day in practice and games. He says they are similar.

I agree it is hard to pick one over the other and we probably shouldn't. I watch Michael's old games on TV, and personally think Kobe's style is more exciting.

That might be splitting hairs.

Are today's athletes, those that defend Kobe vs Michael's day in better condition due to more strength training?

When I look at these guys, whether it is Kobe, Lamar, Stodemeyer, just look at the strength of Boston's two strongest or the two strongest guys on any team and they are just bigger strength wise, it is harder to move these guys and I think they are better conditioned today.

I know Kareem played until he was forty but most guys are out much earlier. Today they seem to last a year or two or three more than Michael's day and I attribute that to today's training with trainers. Look at Derek fisher and Kobe, do they look strong or what. I am not saying Michael Cooper, Magic Johnson and other guards from the old days were not strong for their time, but compare the old film with the strength you see today.

Actually, it is ludicrous to compare Michael Jordan to any player. It would be the same Wilt Chamberlain. These two players were clearly something special in the sense of being unstoppable and defensive demons in moments that mattered. Each of us that had the pleasure of seeing Mike play, regardless of how we feel about the person, we can't remember five bad games in his career. Not Kobe, Not Magic, Not Bird, not any other player you can think of can tout that. Mike never ever had the talent that Magic played with in the Show time era. However, he prevailed. The true difference in Mike and the players that we all are doing the dis-service of comparing with Mike is, every night, Mike faced a top 50 NBA great and prevailed. Mike jumped over Akeem Olajawon, he did Patrick Ewing, he did Charles Barkley, Joe Dumars, I. Thomas, Karl Malone, David Robinson, Larry Bird, The Doc, Dominique the human highlight film, John Stockton and so many more of that nature. Nobody, not anyone could stop him. Containing him was a 20 something to 30 something point night. You were considered successful. I doubt seriously that there are as many top 50 players in the league today or even possibles to crack that level of players. The competition is different. Imagine what a young Maurice Lucas would do to even Howard under the board. Rick Malone, Laimbeer, Moses Malone. These are players that all at some time or another felt the funk of your AIRNESS. Of course he paid the price and still prevailed. These type of players would crush the soft forwards and centers of the day. Kareem would sky hook the shit out of these players, Shaq included. A Young Parrish or McHale would be a problem to stop for any player in the league today. They would all have their way on the defensive end. Adrian Dantley and so many many more in that era would totally dominate today. Can you imagine the Ice Man today? He'd be running up and down the court finger rolling them to death. Alex English. Who out there today would deal with a Worthy, Silk Wilkes, Michael Cooper, Oakley and on and on. Mike did something ugly to each and every one of these players. He did it consistently, night in and night out. That Miami team should win at least 72 in the competitive pool they are in. They wouldn't have done in the Jordan era. Not the Showtime era. Not the Celtic eras. No way shape form or fashion. Consider this...Magic, Worthy, Kareem: vs Wade, James and Bosh. Which three do you really want? Jordan, Pippen and Rodman. Which three do you really want? Bird, Parrish and Mc Hale. Which three do you really want? Thomas, Dumars and Dantley. Which three do you want? Earl the Pearl, Clyde the true glide Frazier, Willis Reed. Come on. There has always been a big three in the NBA. Many of the past three were much better players than the Miami trio. What about Wilt, West and Goodrich and Russell, Havlacheck, Cousy and so on. These team had bench players that would have ranked over the Miami three. Mike Cooper, Danny Ainge, Mychal Thompson, Maurice Lucas, Dick Barnett, Bill Walton, John Sally, Ron Harper, so on and so. M. J. set them all on fire. Could you imagine Oscar Robertson, Kareem and Bridgeman vs the Miami trio. No contest.

"The Bulls came within one blown last second call of the NBA finals the year Mike played baseball.

Would these Lakers get to the finals without 24? uh, no.


Posted by: VMan | October 06, 2010 at 08:18 AM
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Jordan fans said the exact same thing about the Bulls the first time he retired. You never truly know until it happens.

Come on man..... Jordan is better. Go ask Barkley, Ewing, Malone and all those others that he never let win a championship. The question is how many championships would either of them have won without Phil Jackson.... the X factor lol

my oh my this debate is such a complement to Kobe. :) everyone keep saying MJ is THE greatest that my mind almost agreed to it but my heart and soul said it's our man KOBE. Im new here but i've been reading the posts here a lot. to the PINOYS here!!it's friggin awesome to see we're here supporting!!cheers!!

man o man i wanted to say this---MJ is to John The BAPTIST while Kobe is to JESUS CHRIST..

just some bible reference..:) Everyone thought John the baptist was the messiah, then come Jesus the Christ..John the baptist prepared the way for the messiah..MJ prepared it for Kobe..that's how i came up with my ID..LOL!!

SOLOMON RICHARDSON-

yes MJ faced one of the 50 greatest night in night out. do you think Kobe didn't face best of the best in his era?come to think of it, LEBRON, WADE, CARMELO and the list goes on, they got the skill set that any of those 50 greats wouldn't have. their era is watered down compared to today's..

messiah...your bromance for KOBE is a lil over the top. I like Kobe too but also a ardent fan of the game. Jordan's era and their type of play has a bit more fundamentals not to mention a bit more physicality. Kobe even acknowledges this. If Melo, Wade, and Queen LBronze were playing back then they would probably cry themselves out of the league. mabuhay...

Michael vs Kobe-Who is better: Phil jackson is never going 2 answer that question straight up, specially while Kobe & him r 2gether! Even if Phil rites a book, i still dont think he will take a side! Phil will probably give both of them there credit & say they had alot of things in common & so on but i dont c him favoring 1 over the other! Michael Jordan is the best all around basketball player 2 ever live! MIKE had a universal style & he would dominate the game on all phases of the court so thats what seperates him from all the other greats! MIKE has that defensive player of the yr award 2 go along w/ his stacked resume & he was always up there in steals! MIKE has that unstoppable fade-away jump-shot that he patent-perfected & his mental & physical abilities r elite! KOBE is the best in the world 4 right now & he has some similaritie & traits like MIKE but the key word is some, lol! MIKE & KOBE r about the same height & weight but MIKE has bigger hands & wider shoulders! MIKE is also a better 1 foot jumper as u see when he dunks from the foul line! Kobe is the top dog 4 rite now but if MIKE & him were in there prime 2gether MIKE would have the edge & MIKE'S all around game would proove it! I dont c KOBE getting that defensive player of the yr award & him dunking from the foul line anytime soon, lol! KOBE is the closest thing 2 MIKE & KOBE will go down as the 2nd best shooting guard ever but MIKE is the best all around ever & i dont c any1 starting a new revolution anytime soon! MIKE started a revolution & KOBE is somewhat the evolution, lol! Phil Jackson knows MIKE has the edge over KOBE but he will always b politically correct about it so he dont get caught up in the stew & risk tampering w/ his relationship between MIKE, KOBE & HIM! Stay open minded but THOROUGH folks! LOYAL 1LUV SPORTS FAN: E.


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