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The legend of prep star Wilt and his first battles with Kareem

Wilt_350 Not sure if any of you saw this, but we do a weekly Sports Legends feature on latimes.com/sports and this week it was on Wilt Chamberlain. The Sports Legends feature focuses on the truth behind rumors, hearsay or facts that have maybe been misconstrued or distorted over the years. 

It's kind of cool to go back in time. I know a lot of the youngsters are really into the here and now. I've got a pair of sons in the early 20s who really dig basketball, like we do, and I'm always going on and on about the '70s and '80s, when I was in junior high, high school, college and just starting my professional career (picture a teenager rolling their eyes now). Well, Sports Legends takes us back to those days. Hope you enjoy the article.

Now, to veer toward Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and Wilt. I'm going to paste in a thread from regular commenter LRob, who did a nice recap on the Derek Fisher thread regarding the early meetings between Wilt and Kareem. I really enjoyed it, and I know from comments many others did. So I'm going to share the first game for those people who possibly don't read the comments section.

My apologies for the plagiarism, LRob. Hope you're not offended. Here's his post (and others are in the comment section of the Derek Fisher/Motivational Speaker post):

It was fall of 1970 when Kareem & Wilt first met, (Wilt was injured during regular season Kareem's rookie year so they didn't face off)....and a lot was happening in 1970:
***4 students were killed by National Guards during an anti-war protest at Kent State University
***Brooksy magnetic glove play propelled the Orioles to WS champs and made amends for their 1969 humbling
***Monday night football made its debut
***Marcus Welby MD, Flip Wilson, Ironside and Gunsmoke were the top TV shows
***Top 3 songs of the year were
Bridge Over Troubled Water-Simon/Garfunkel
I'll Be There-Jackson 5
Raindrops Keep Falling on my Head-BJ Thomas
Anyway here's what happening in their long anticipated first meeting:

Game 1
Wilt Wins Duel With Alcindor
By United Press International
'Wilt Chamberlain won the battle but Lew Alcindor and the Milwaukee Bucks won the war.
Pro basketball's premier big men faced each other for only the second time Friday night and Chamberlain showed his experience in winning the battle of the seven-footers. But the Bucks were just too strong overall and handed the Los Angeles Lakers a 117-100 defeat. (first meeting was in pre-season).
Alcindor scored 29 points, one more than Chamberlain, but was outrebounded, 23,-13, and was in foul trouble most of the game. Alcindor was able to make good on only four of his first 12 shots and Chamberlain blocked three of his shots.
-----------
I think a couple of those blocks were shown on Wilt's highlight video posted earlier.

Hope you enjoyed it as much as I did.

--Dan Loumena

Photo: The Lakers' Wilt Chamberlain gets off a finger roll against Kareem Abdul-Jabbar of the Milwaukee Bucks during a game in 1972. Credit: Los Angeles Times

 
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You're getting it, Dan. You're really getting it.


What do we play for? RINGS!!!


Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.


GO LAKERS!!!

Dan,

I think you're starting to have fun here. C'mon, you can admit it.

Dan for president!!
What a nice article.

Dan,

No problem. I'm glad you found it interesting.

Thanks for the link to to the drafting of Chamberlain's. Even Coach Calipari thinks the territorial draft would breed corruption in the college game.

I wish Spencer Haywood got more recognition for being a trailblazer (sorry Dan) with the hardship draft.

Reggie Harding. Now that's a sad story.

I remember when they went at it (reminds me of Sly and the Family Stone days). An experienced Wilt, up against 3 time NCAA champion Kareem (Lew Alcindor). Great players, and far removed from the self-touting circus we have today.

Remember, the Blazers were 50-10 the year after they won the title. Had Bill Walton stayed healthy . . .

Posted by: Dan Loumena | September 01, 2010 at 02:44 PM
-----------

Yep the Blazers definitely would've repeated in 78. But they probably wouldn't won in 77 if Kermit Washington and Lucious Allen didn't get hurt. The Lakers were 3-0 in regular season vs. Portland before Kermit's injury. They also a sizeable lead for best record in the league. Then Lucious goes down right before the playoffs and Portland swept the Lakers faster than you could say Herm Gilliam.

Art - no offense taken.

Lewstrs - put me on the Mamba bus please. I don't want to get dropped from the morning roll call...lol

Wilt beat a young Kareem while Wilt was 33 years old.

Prime vs Prime would be a great battle but again Wilt stands tall over Kareem.

A Wilt flunky like O'Neal even at his zenith (99-00) would be still looking up at the moon trying to touch Wilt.

Awesome history post Dan - love it.
I think Dan has had his - "you like me, you really like me" moment.

Way to go! PLG

Lakeraholics loves us some Lakers history!


What do we play for? RINGS!!!


Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.


GO LAKERS!!!

Dan is the Man...best one you've done yet...I think you understand us now...Thanks

LRob - I missed that post, but the time capsule you opened up sparked my memory...man, that was 40 years ago...

SHOW MAMBA24 SOME LOVE FOR ALL HE DOES FOR US...
==-------====--- -------==========
[_|___|__|___|__|__|__|__|__|__\
|__THANK YOU MAMBA24 _\__\__
l__________________________--|
\_(O)-(O)_____|_|_____(O)-(O)___/

LEWSTRS
justanothermambafan
Magic Phil
PsychedLakerGirl
wes
LakerMike (and MrsLakerMike)
Don't Blame Del Harris!
CyberCosmiX
JohnnyV
LakerLass
Noah
KobeMVP888
Jon K
LakerTom
LakerPeace
LAKER TRUTH
D(erek)J(eter)
KB Blitz
Art - FL Lakers Fan
iheartkb24
CornerJ (shotgun)
utzworld - the BANNER HOLDER
HalosAnt
LakerFanInCowTown
Seely_Iggy
LRob

Hi everyone!

Apologies for being so infrequent with my postings, but I'm wrapping things up for my big move to the UK in about 3.5 weeks.

Please put me on any bandwagons supporting MAMBA24 and Dan "The Man" Loumena. I've had a chance to read, but that's pretty much been about it.

To everyone that I've had a chance to talk to on this blog, I hope you had a good day today, and I'll pop in here a bit more next week (most likely).

I think Dan & MM should share Lakers Blog moderation duties this season. Let MM do the game recaps & let Dan cover the intangibles.


AGREE?

Lrob is incorrect. Wilt and the Lakers played the Bucks in the fall of 1969
before Wilt tore up his knee.
He out scored him, out rebound him, outplayed him and the Lakers won.
The only game he (Lew) played against Wilt before he hurt his knee. Fact.

Hey utzworld -THE BANNER HOLDER,

You sound like some of my colleagues around the office, always lining up workload for me. This is MM's show and I'm just a man behind the curtain at the moment pulling some levers and directing the light show in his absence.

I promise that in the future to give the young lad some help and pay attention. To the rest of you, much thanks for the acknowledgement of my efforts. I get the blogosphere, I get fanaticism and I appreciate the community you have formed here on our Lakers blog.

To LRob,

Wasn't that the greatest thing about the '70s? Injuries played a big role each season as the playoffs approached. Sports medicine was still in the dark ages then, no arthriscopic surgery, etc. Remember some of those teams -- Rick Barry's Warriors, the Van Arsdale brothers in Phoenix, Gus Williams-Dennis Johnson-Jack Sikma triumverate in Seattle, your beloved transitioning Lakers from the West-Baylor era to the Magic-Kareem era at the turn of the decade, with the East dominated by the Celtics, the Hayes-Unseld Bullets, an aging and gimpy Knicks club and the rebuilt Dr. J 76ers?

I saw on the Odom/Team USA thread some questions about the Nuggets and Derrick Caracter. I'll see what I can find, but those rumors will be hard for me to verify or quantify with our beat writers on vacation and the Lakers not in camp.

Dan Loumena
Assistant Sports Editor

Great job on a blog entry that is interesting to all basketball fans, LRob and Dan. The great debate that has been raging on this blog, spilling over from day to day regarding the all-time centers of NBA history, has been fascinating.


Unsolicited praise:
Everyone should check out youtube user WiltatKansas collection of probably of the finest vintage NBA videos on the 'net. The great Wilt blocks compilation video KobeMVP888 posted the other day is but one of many historical videos WiltatKansas has posted:
http://www.youtube.com/user/WiltatKansas


Another big Laker fan and youtube user, nonplayerzealot4, has a great collection of LAKER early showtime-era videos ranging up through the 2000's, that he has been putting on youtube as he gets a chance. BTW he told me in an email a few months back he has some other early Laker things (circa '81-83) he will be uploading as he gets time:
http://www.youtube.com/user/nonplayerzealot4


By the way, most already know how to do it, but if anyone would like to download and save these videos onto their computers, and even convert/burn the videos to DVD I would be more than happy to let you know how. There are programs convert the downloaded files into DivX CODEC's that are playable on most modern DVD players. I've made a number of discs using youtube vid's - the quality on some isn't the best, but for hoop junkies, some of this footage is pure heaven...

PUT JOHNNY P ON THE THANK YOU MAMBA 24 BUS.

I keep pushing the philosophy of Lakersism. Here is the Lakersist interpretation of Kareem v. Wilt.

Wilt was the GOAT when he was on the Lakers. Other than that he sucked and was evil.

Kareem was the GOAT when he was on the Lakers. Other than that he sucked and was evil.

All hail the Lakers and all things Lakers. And . . .

GOOOoooooooOOOOOOOO LAKERS !!!

Props, LRob. I loved the Big Dipper/Cap stories the first time around, you deserved to get them featured. Of course, we are spoiled by the great content everybody provided, but these did stand out. I love the historical perspective.

Lrob is incorrect. Wilt and the Lakers played the Bucks in the fall of 1969
before Wilt tore up his knee.
He out scored him, out rebound him, outplayed him and the Lakers won.
The only game he (Lew) played against Wilt before he hurt his knee. Fact.
Posted by: DR Len | September 01, 2010 at 07:09 PM
----------
DR Len - you are absolutely correct. I had read that their first regular season meeting happened in Kareem’s 2nd year. I stand corrected. My apologies to the Dan and my fellow bloggers. Thanks DR and if you see anything else incorrect please chime in. Here is the story from that first meeting.

October 24, 1969
Chamberlain Edges Lew, Guides Lakers' Victory
LOS ANGELES (AP)-The individual battle might be termed a draw with each man praising the other, but in the end it was the over-all firepower of the Los Angeles Lakers that beat an inexperienced Milwaukee Buck team.

Lew Alcindor. the million dollar rookie of the Bucks, lost his third game since high school Friday night when Wilt Chamberlain, the greatest scorer in NBA history, led the Lakers to a 123-112 victory. Chamberlain scored 25 points and grabbed 25 rebounds but Alcindor. the 7-foot-1 3/4 rookie, made his presence felt with 23 points and 20 rebounds.
It was a game of muscle under the boards.

"I thought he was more physical against me than I was against him." Chamberlain said after the game. "He's very strong, very quick and moves very well with the ball. I don't really think he surprised me at all."

"It was more physical than It was in our first three games," Lew said. "It was the first time I've played against Wilt for real and he taught me a few things."

But Lew taught a few things to Wilt, too. Using his flat hook shot and leaning toward the basket. Alcindor scored 12 first-half points and Chamberlain, facing a man taller than himself for the first time in a while, had a bit of trouble blocking shots.

After Wilt finally did block a couple of Lew's attempts, the Buck rookie began
faking the hook shot. When Wilt went up to block them. Alcindor would
turn the other way and score an easy layup.

But in the second half. Chamberlain scored 18 points and using a balanced attack, with Elgin Baylor. Jerry West and rookie guard Willie McCarter scoring freely, the Lakers broke the game open in the fourth period.

"I thought Wilt played one of his really fine games," said Larry Costello. the Buck rookie coach. "Our offense let us down tonight because they (the Lakers) were sagging on Lew. Somebody had to be open but we weren't hitting the open man."

Milwaukee held a 60-54 halftime lead, but the Lakers rallied for an 11-point margin in the fourth quarter. When the Bucks closed to 105-102, Elgin Baylor got hot and hit for six straight baskets to put the game out of reach. Baylor's 26 points was high for Los Angeles. Flynn Robinson of Milwaukee led all scorers with 33 points.

Spencer Haywood? Worst trade in Lakers history. We gave up Adrian Dantley for size to back up Kareem, and the guy was a stone-cold dope addict. Got kicked off the team. Was that 1980? Dantley got more bad news later in his career when he was traded by Detroit to Dallas for Mark Aguirre, and Detroit eventually went back to back. Dantley really got the shaft, and missed out on titles.

Spencer Haywood deserves nothing but bad press.

Spencer Haywood? Worst trade in Lakers history. We gave up Adrian Dantley for size to back up Kareem, and the guy was a stone-cold dope addict. Got kicked off the team. Was that 1980? Dantley got more bad news later in his career when he was traded by Detroit to Dallas for Mark Aguirre, and Detroit eventually went back to back. Dantley really got the shaft, and missed out on titles.
Spencer Haywood deserves nothing but bad press.
Posted by: Otis | September 01, 2010 at 07:49 PM

Otis - yeah Spencer was playing a lot of baseball in 1980 (free-basing) and was kicked off the team. He had a serious drug habit and it could've cost the Lakers the title that year. That however doesn't undue the fact that he fought hard to get the NBA hardship rule implemented that hundreds of others benefited from. Think of it this way. The Lakers would've got Magic if that rule wasn't in place.

I'm a big believer in forgiveness. We've all made a lot of mistakes and if we haven't then we probably haven't been living very long. Anyway, Spencer has been clean for a long time and is now giving back to the game.

http://www.page2live.com/2009/01/23/my-names-spencer-haywood-and-im-an-addict/

phred - thank you bro. I know you don't really get into the whole GOAT so I'm glad you found it interesting.

I am wondering why there aren't true centers like Kareem and Wilt anymore in the NBA. I believe the last true great center match up was Yao vs Shaq.

Okay now that we’ve reviewed the one meeting in 69-70 season (thanks again DR Len) and all the regular season meetings in 70-71, its on to the playoffs where the Lakers and Bucks met in the Western Conference Finals. Please note the Lakers were without Jerry West, their leading scorer (27ppg), for the entire playoffs.

April 9, 1971
Chamberlain, Alcindor continue to duel
Bucks beat Lakers in late rally

MILWAUKEE (AP) - The Milwaukee Bucks started doing the right things in the third period, while the Los Angeles Lakers stopped doing the things that had given them a one-point advantage. The result was a 106-85 victory for the Bucks in the opening game of the National Basketball Association's Western Conference playoffs.

"We just stopped doing the things that had us on top at the half," said injured Laker star Elgin Baylor. We stopped moving the ball; we stopped going in to
Wilt (Chamberlain), who was having success against Lew Alcindor, and we started to go one-on-one."

"I wanted the ball more in the third quarter," said Wilt Chamberlain. "I only got threeshots in the period. I wanted 13 or 14." Chamberlain and Alcindor hooked up in a classic duel. The 7-foot-l Chamberlain finished with 22 points and 20 rebounds while Alcindor, a 7-2 sophomore, pumped in 32 points and grabbed 22 rebounds

"Los Angeles plays at a slow tempo and a lot of times it lulls you into their style of play," Milwaukee Coach Larry Costello explained. "In the third period, we started running."

"When we got our best break working, we got them kind of disappointed," Alcindor said.

"Jon's shooting was what picked us up in the second half," Costello said. "When he got going, the whole team started shooting." McGlocklin finished with 18 points, all but two of them in the second half. Oscar Robertson added 19 points to the Milwaukee total and Hap Hairston added 20 and Gail Goodrich 16 for the Lakers.

Robertson, who played 38 minutes, was on the court for the first time since last Sunday because of a pulled stomach muscle. "If I had been able to run," he said, "we'd have put them away earlier. I had to fake it all night."

The Bucks could have found themselves way behind the eight ball in the first half if it hadn't been for Lew Alcindor. The NBA's Most Valuable Player scored 20 points and pulled down 19 rebounds in the first half to keep the Bucks within striking distance.

Wilt Chamberlain, who drew the chore of playing head-to-head .against Alcindor, did his share of damage in the first half, too, scoring 16 points and pulling in 12 rebounds.
-------------
BTW if you have league pass and catch any Bucks games Jon McGlockin is the color analyst. He's a lot like Stu - he roots for his team, but isn't a homer. He'll give the other team and their stars credit where due.

Game 2 - April 11, 1971

After 91-73 Loss to Bucks
LA Bench Rapped by Angry Giant Wilt
MILWAUKEE (AP) — Larry Costello is waiting for his team to break loose offensively. Wilt Chamberlain is waiting for help.

"I don't think we've played well at all," Costello, Milwaukee Bucks coach, said.
"We've won two, but I think we're due for an explosion." Offensively, the Bucks were under par Sunday. But their defense helped give them a 91-73 victory 'over the Los Angeles Lakers to take a 2-0 lead in their best-of-seven game series in the NBA's Western Conference playoff finals.

"We were running without a purpose at times," Costello said. "We came up with a lot of steals that we didn't turn into points."

Chamberlain, the last Laker to get dressed, was fuming in the dressing room following the loss. The 7-foot-l veteran had played his best game ever
against Milwaukee and its 7-foot-2 sophomore center, Lew Alcindor.

'Our defense is all right," Chamberlain said, as he started off quietly. "I don't expect to win. We've got three of our starters out." Laker forward Elgin Baylor played only the first two games of the season, while Los Angeles lost guard Jerry West for the playoffs. Sunday morning, Keith Erickson woke up with stomach pains and was hospitalized in Milwaukee.
Erickson had his appendix removed at Lutheran Hospital, but officials would not give, further details immediately. That puts him out for the rest of the playoffs.

"I'm not saying anything against the coach," Chamberlain said, starting to warm up. "But, when do they beat us? Both times it's been in the fourth quarter." "How are we going to win with five guys against their eight or nine? I don't expect us to win, but I expect our bench to help. That's what they're getting paid for, not to sit there "Our starters are giving it all they have," he said. "It's just that by the fourth quarter, we're dragging while they (the Bucks) are running in fresh guys.”

The series now switches to Los Angeles where the Lakers and Bucks clash Wednesday night. They've got to get points from Wilt and Gail Goodrich," Costello said of the Lakers. "Defensively we've done a real good job on Goodrich."

Chamberlain scored 26 points and grabbed 22 rebounds to lead in both categories. Alcindor paced Milwaukee with 22 points, with 11 coming in the second half, and grabbed 10 rebounds.

Riley scored 13 for the Lakers and Goodrich 10. McGlocklin had 15 for the Bucks followed by Dandridge 14 points.

The/Bucks jumped off to a 24-15 lead at the first stop, and led 44-37 at the half. The score was 68-57, Milwaukee, going into the final period.
-------------
Good to see Riles get in the books.

LRob - I missed that post, but the time capsule you opened up sparked my memory...man, that was 40 years ago...
Posted by: LEWSTRS | September 01, 2010 at 06:38 PM
------------
Shhhh...Lewstrs....it was only yesterday.

LRob, the one man night crew.

Hey, it's not the GOAT conversation that is getting me, it is the fun of listening to someone who was there, talking at the time, telling about all these matchups that have been to me a sort of distant near mythic time. I would have loved to be able to watch Wilt and Kareem go at it. I guess I just have to be happy to have seen the great contests of today. I won't be able to talk about them, unfortunately, since I can't even remember the exact details of my favorite Kobe play, but at least I enjoyed watching them.

Gm 3 April 14, 1971

Wilt outplays Alcindor
Little-used Pat Riley helps Lakers to win
INGLEWOOD, Calif. (UPI) Playing as a regular in place of
the ailing Keith Erickson, Pat Riley has helped the injury plagued
Los Angeles Lakers avert an expected shutout in their NBA semifinal
playoff series with Lew Alcindor and the Milwaukee Bucks.

The little-used former Kentucky star scored 24 points—one
short of his pro career high—and was the Lakers' catalyst in
a pivotal third quarter during the 118-107 victory over the
powerful Bucks Wednesday night.

Now down 2-1 in the best-of seven game series, Los Angeles
hosts Milwaukee Friday night, with the semifinals switching
back to Wisconsin Sunday for game No. 5.

Eleven of Riley's points came in the third quarter, when the
Lakers outscored the Bucks 34-22 and moved into a 90-77 lead.
With 34-year-old Wilt Chamberlain outplaying Alcindor
decisively, Milwaukee was never closer than nine points in the
final period.

Riley, who hit 11 of 18 shots, also turned in an outstanding
defensive job on Oscar Robertson, holding him to 11 points.
He got his chance to start Sunday after Erickson had an
attack of appendicitis.

Chamberlain outscored Alcindor 24-20 and had an edge in
rebounds—24-19. In addition, he was the defensive factor that
his younger rival wasn't. Alcindor was asked if the
Bucks had a letdown.

"Probably," he replied. "But you still have to play to win.
We'll definitely be more ready on Friday night."

Chamberlain and Riley had scoring help from Gail Goodrich
and Happy Hairston, who put in 24 points apiece. Rookie
Jim McMillian, who got his chance to start when Jerry
West injured a knee in the final month of the regular season,
added 18. Bob Dandridge had 25 points and Jon McGlocklin
hit 22 for the Bucks.

---------------
comments from Long Beach Press Telegram
---------------
If the Lakers can prevent Robertson from directing
the Milwaukee offense, which may be wishful
thinking, they stand an excellent chance of winning
again in their series because Wilt Chamberlain
is outplaying Lew Alcindor.

Despite a 10-year age difference, Chamberlain
outscored (24-20), outrebounded (24-19) and out defended
(3 blocks to zero) Alcindor, who has yet to prove he is the NBA's
most valuable player and league's top scorer.

Twice Alcindor was benched by Milwaukee coach Larry Costello, who
doesn't think his big center is working hard enough to get his shots.
But if Costello is peeved at Alcindor, he is more unhappy
with Robertson. The "Big 0" took only 10 shots, and Costello wants
him to try at least 20 a game.

Game 4 April 16, 1971
Birthday-Boy Lew Hits 31 in Victory

LOS ANGELES — Lew Alcindor crowned his birthday cake
with 24 candles and 31 points Friday night to lead the Milwaukee
Bucks past Los Angeles, 117-94.

Alcindor, the most valuable player in the National Basketball
Assn., celebrated his 24th birthday by dominating fellow
7-footer Wilt Chamberlain. He got help from reserve
Bob Boozer and the Bucks dormant fast break as Milwaukee
took a 3-1 lead in the Western Conference final series.

The victory restored some perspective to this series. The
Bucks, who finished the season with the best record in the
NBA, played listlessly Wednesday night and lost to the
undermanned Lakers.

Milwaukee made sure that wouldn't happen Friday night,
taking charge from the start to sink the Pacific Division
champs into a deep playoff hole. The fifth game will be played
at 1 p.m. Sunday in Milwaukee and the chances of the Lakers
rallying to win the best-of-seven series are now exceedingly slim.

Alcindor, a 7-2 center, started fast but wasn't even
needed much in the fourth quarter when he scored just two
points. The former UCLA star spent much of that period on
the bench as the Bucks lead grew.

Alcindor scored 17 points in the first quarter and had 23 at
halftime, when the Bucks led by 11. The Lakers made their only
serious charge of the game early in the third quarter, cutting
the margin to one point at 68-67.

But then the Bucks found their fast break which was absent
Wednesday night and much of the first half.
Shrugging off a muscle pull the abdomen, Oscar Robertson
guided the Bucks on a spurt that put the game away.
Robertson had only 11 points Wednesday. He raised that to 19
Friday and, despite being slowed by his injury, sparkled
with his passes.

Boozer, an often-maligned 6-9 forward scored 8 of his 16 points
in the third quarter, including six of Milwaukee's last eight in
the period. After the Lakers closed to one point on a pair of baskets
by Pat Riley and two by Happy Hairston, Milwaukee ran off a
12-2 streak and the Lakers never came closer than seven
points the rest of the way.

With Alcindor and Chamberlain on the bench much of the
fourth quarter Milwaukee's lead grew to as much as 23.

Chamberlain scored just 15 points and only three in the
decisive second half. The veteran had outplayed the young
Alcindor Wednesday night, but Lew got his revenge.
He stuffed the ball over Wilt three times in the first quarter
before the crowd of 17,505 in the Forum and grabbed 20 rebounds
in the game.

The most effective Laker in the first half was guard Gail Goodrich,
who threw in 19 points to keep Los Angeles close. He too fell off in the
second half scoring just seven points.

The drop off of Goodrich and Chamberlain in the second half
is understandable. The Laker have just eight healthy player
and they tired in the last two quarters.

Bob Dandridge added 20 points for Milwaukee.

"I thought Oscar (Robertson) his played his best game of the series,"
Laker coach Joe Mullaney said. "They had him on Goodrich and he did a
good job there."

"Oscar played an outstanding game on defense for us,"
Costello slid. "We ran at them tonight instead of them running
at us. We wanted this game because we don't want to come
back to Los Angeles."

"They play real well and they are just a hell'va team,"
Chamberlain said. The big Laker didn't want to say he was
tired but it sure appeared that he was. After all, when you
spend all evening trying to guard the moving Alcindor you
have to get tired.

The best part about all this "40 years in an eye-blink" is to hear Wilt and West arguing over the same things the players nowadays argue about: more touches, etc. Everything changes, and everything stays the same.

My question is this:

When is the LA Times gonna do the right thing and put Lrob on the payroll?

L.Rob, you must be old as munny dust dud, all this history crap, it's the past man. You need to look forward and STOP reliving history, it's got to be your glory days.

Boston signs West, another excellent addition, GO GREEN.

L.Rob to much time on to keyboard man, try getting a woman at some point man it can help.

LRob, no problem. I had waited several years to watch Wilt vs Lew,
so I remember it very well. Also when the Bucks played the Lakers
in the 1971 playoffs the Laker's were decimated but at the end
of the last game when Wilt came out the Buck crowd gave him a standing O
for how well he played. Wilt Chamberlain MDE.

Game 5 April 18, 1971

Bucks Await Championship Series
Wilt Wins 7-Foot Battle But Loses 7-Game Set
By BOB GREENE
Associated Press Sports Writer

MILWAUKEE — Wilt Chamberlain captured the battle of the seven-footers,
but soaring "Captain Marvel" powered t he Milwaukee Bucks to the Western
Conference title yesterday in the National Basketball Association playoffs.
The Bucks, 116-98 winners over the Los Angeles Lakers, now will take on
the Eastern Conference champions Wednesday night in the opening game of the best-of-7 championship series.

Milwaukee's opponent will be the winner of tonight's battle between
the New York Knicks and the Baltimore Bullets. The Bullets deadlocked their
semifinal series against the Knicks with a 113-96 victory
Sunday, forcing a seventh game in New York tonight

"Captain Marvel" is Greg Smith, the Bucks' 6 foot-5 forward
who is considered long on defense but short on offense.
Against the Lakers Sunday, he paced the Bucks with 22 points,
leading Milwaukee's well-balanced scoring attack.

"This is the first time I've led a team in scoring since I was in
high school," said Smith, a three year NBA veteran.
"That's seven years since I've been the high scorer."

While 7-2 Lew Alcindor and 7-1 Chamberlain battled, Smith
sneaked in time and again for crucial rebounds or vital points.
Because of foul trouble, he played only 23 minutes, less
than one-half of the game.

Chamberlain, the veteran Laker center, continued his dominance
outscoring the Bucks' center, 23-20, and blocked six shots
while Alcindor slapped away three would-be baskets.

Four times, Chamberlain knocked away an Alcindor field
goal attempt, and twice Alcindor did the same on Chamberlain's
shots.

In the rebounding battle, Alcindor finished with 15 and
Chamberlain 12.

Bob Dandridge added 20 points to Milwaukee's total.
High for Los Angeles was Happy Hairston with 27.
With their first conference crown in hand, the Bucks
immediately turned to their next goal, the NBA championship.
"We want the Knicks," said Robertson. "We have something
to prove. If we beat Baltimore, everyone will say the Knicks
were the best team, they lost because of injuries."

Alcindor agreed. "We want to be the best," he
said, "and we want to do it by beating the champions.
----------------
Apr 19, 1971
Wilt Chamberlain Predicts Bucks Going All The Way
By DAVE BEGEL
MILWAUKEE, Wis. (UPI)-
Wilt Chamberlain made a prediction Sunday after he and the
soundly beaten 116-98 by the Milwaukee Bucks.
"Man," Chamberlain said, "Milwaukee's going all the way.
They're going all the way." He knew the Bucks had
earned the right to meet the winner of the Baltimore Bullets-
New York Knicks series for the championship of the National
Basketball Association. The Knicks and Bullets meet to
determine who gets the dubious privilege of taking on Milwaukee.

The Big Los Angeles center should know whereof he speaks,
he has just come through a rugged five games against the
Bucks and he almost singlehandedly made it as tough for
Milwaukee as it was.

In the Milwaukee locker room after the game, talk centered
around the game just finished, rather than any game coming
ran and played our Bucks Coach Larry Costello said. "We didn't
want to go back to L.A. (for a sixth game if it was necessary) and
now we don't have to."

But Costello gave in to the to talk about the
a funny feeling Baltimore is going to win it,"
he said, but added, "I don't care who wins—we'll be ready."
Then Costello paused and grinned.

"Maybe I'd rather play New York. There's some rumors
going around about them being better than we are, and I think
we'd like to dispel some of those rumors," he said.
Lakers Coach Joe Mullaney said the Bucks had the team to
win it all.

"With Baltimore's center (Wes Unseld) the Bullets will
have trouble against the Bucks," he said. "And with
Willis Reed hurt for New York, the Bucks can take it all. A
healthy Reed would give Milwaukee trouble, but any
team with Lew Alcindor on it has the potential to win it all."
Alcindor certainly gave it a good shot in Sunday's game.

The big sophomore played both ends of the court and finished
with 20 points and 15 rebounds. But it was Chamberlain, the
visitor to Milwaukee with the foreboding visage, who captured
the hearts of the 10,746 Milwaukee fans who crammed
the Milwaukee arena.

Big Wilt had 23 points and 12
rebounds and hustled like he had throughout the series.
When he left the floor with 1:54 left in the game the entire
arena stood and cheered the often maligned center of the
Lakers. "That was nice of them—very nice." Chamberlain said.
------------------

It was amazing to hear Milwaukee's crowd gave Wilt a standing
ovation at the end of the series. A true testament to Wilt's greatness and it seemed to truly touch him.

Series averages:
Kareem 27pts/17reb
Wilt 23pts/21 reb

It's safe to say Wilt had a sizeable lead in blocks shots. Blocked shots were not
shown in the box scores then and I could only find a few of the games where they were mentioned in the story.


L.Rob, you must be old as munny dust dud, all this history crap, it's the past man. You need to look forward and STOP reliving history, it's got to be your glory days.
Posted by: JUSTA HATER | September 01, 2010 at 09:55 PM
---------
I can barely make out your comment. Its hard peeking through the bandages...lol.

Glory days....nah, every day is a glory day. I just the love of the game. As much in 2010 as in 1970.

L.Rob- just having fun, enjoying your post.

LRob, no problem. I had waited several years to watch Wilt vs Lew,
so I remember it very well. Also when the Bucks played the Lakers
in the 1971 playoffs the Laker's were decimated but at the end
of the last game when Wilt came out the Buck crowd gave him a standing O
for how well he played. Wilt Chamberlain MDE.
Posted by: DR Len | September 01, 2010 at 10:04 PM
---------
Your memory is very good as the last post showed about the standing O. Wilt certainly was the MDE.

I vaguely remember the 1970 playoffs. But 71 is when I became locked in. I'd be interested in hearing your perspective on the 69 and 70 finals. Since those were the two that haunted Wilt's Lakers the most.

The best part about all this "40 years in an eye-blink" is to hear Wilt and West arguing over the same things the players nowadays argue about: more touches, etc. Everything changes, and everything stays the same.
Posted by: 63 Footer | September 01, 2010 at 09:31 PM

And coaches crying also. Especially Costello in the 72 playoffs. Nothing new under the sun.

LRob, YOU ARE THE MAN!

I am wondering why there aren't true centers like Kareem and Wilt anymore in the NBA. I believe the last true great center match up was Yao vs Shaq.

Posted by: LakerPeace | September 01, 2010 at 08:11 PM

Peace - Low post dominance is truly a lost art and that's why we're all so hopeful for Bynum. Also why Portland mistakenly drafted Odom over Durant.

LRob, YOU ARE THE MAN!

Posted by: utzworld - THE BANNER HOLDER | September 01, 2010 at 10:20 PM
-
You said it all!!!
Great job, LRob

My question is this:

When is the LA Times gonna do the right thing and put Lrob on the payroll?
Posted by: LakerFanInCowTown | September 01, 2010 at 09:54 PM

LFICT - as phred would say its ALL ABOUT THE LOVE. But donations are accepted...lol.

I will agree with utzworld: LRob - "You are the man!"

Yeah, coaches crying... sigh.

Still, what happened to all the big men? I mean, get down-and-dirty, I'll-make-you-pay-if-you-come-into-my-house big men? Howard's of that breed... but would be a popgun compared to all the old guys. Shaq, last of a breed.

Drew? We'll see. My only real knock on the kid is (injuries aside) he came to the game late, and it shows in his instincts. Guys like Ron Ron or Kobe (or us guys who hustled games down at Venice for money or on the courts at Pali High) developed instincts for the ball at a young age, or we wouldn't get playing time. Drew's instincts are years behind guys like that. But I got my fingers crossed he develops the "hunger" to dominate and scrap for everything that makes a school yard player good. If Wilt were alive, I think he'd be a great mentor for Andrew.

Wilt beat a young Kareem while Wilt was 33 years old.
Prime vs Prime would be a great battle but again Wilt stands tall over Kareem.
Posted by: KBBlitz | September 01, 2010 at 06:23 PM
----------
KB Blitz - I thought you would like some of that. Hang on more to follow.

After sweeping the Bullets it would be 9 years for Kareem to get back to the Finals. He lost the Big O and received the Magic Man.

utzworld - THE BANNER HOLDER/Magic Phil,

I'm glad you enjoyed.

How spoiled are we as Laker fans? Wilt, Kareem, Jerry, Elgin, Magic, Kobe. Unbelievable. Sorry Yankee fans but the Laker are truly the greatest team in North America sports history!

Sorry LRob but the Lakers can compete with the Celtics but not the Yankees.
The Yanks have 27 Titles over almost 90 years.
Babe, Lou and Joe D Mantle. No team can beat those 4.

This is great bedtime reading:
http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=17222

Simply AWESOME!!!!

After sweeping the Bullets it would be 9 years for Kareem to get back to the Finals. He lost the Big O and received the Magic Man.

Posted by: DR Len | September 01, 2010 at 10:34 PM

Don't forget about 74. He carried the Bucks back....including an aging Big O.

This is great bedtime reading:
http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=17222

Simply AWESOME!!!!
Posted by: Magic Phil | September 01, 2010 at 10:56 PM

Splendid indeed!

Of course, LRob - I'm hating on Haywood on the hardwood, never in life - never in life.

Very nice read Magic Phil...thanks

SHOW MAMBA24 SOME LOVE FOR ALL HE DOES FOR US...
==-------====--- -------==========
[_|___|__|___|__|__|__|__|__|__\
|__THANK YOU MAMBA24 _\__\__
l__________________________--|
\_(O)-(O)_____|_|_____(O)-(O)___/

LEWSTRS
justanothermambafan
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True but Oscar played twice as much as he should have.
A prime Big O and they would have beaten the Celts.

LRob When Wilt joined the team in 68-69 he had won the last 3 MVP's.
The Lakers had an idiot coach Bill Van Bridakoff who wanted Wilt to
play a high post and leave the post free for Elgin. To make the finals simple
Wilt never got to shoot much (see Jerry West shots taken).
In game 7 Wilt hurt his knee in the fourth qtr and came out.
After getting treatment for about a minute he asked back in and the coach said no. The owner ordered him to put Wilt in and again he refused.
They lost and the coach was fired.
In the early part of 1969-70 the knee that locked up in game 7 exploded
and his career was in jeopardy. Wilt killed himself to get back
by the playoffs. With one bum knee he took the lakers to game 7
against the Knicks. And scored 45 in game 6.
People praised Reed for playing hurt but no one praised Wilt.
It was Frazier who ate up West in game 7.

DR Len - "The horror... the horror...." Man, I'm gonna have nightmares reliving all of that in my sleep. That was just the time I got into the Lakers (young though I was), and it's etched upon my mind. "Nobody loves Goliath." Yeah, Wilt got no love.

wow, the memories...

Wilt was a great guy to watch, and a fun personality, who, while anything but humble, could be gracious in defeat. even in defeat, he was never a loser. he was the greatest player of his time, at least. i'm glad he was a Laker, he and Jerry West started a lifetime of obsession for me...

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I've been an editor at the L.A. Times for nearly 14 years, working everything from page design and copy editing to assignment editing for our high school desk. If you've seen my byline, it's probably on the Fabulous Forum blog, to which I contribute each week. I broke into the business back in 1981 as a cub reporter in Oregon, but about 10 years into my career I was asked to move into editing roles at various newspapers in NorCal and SoCal, and as a young father the hours were a lot more conducive to raising a family than when I was a sports writer. I worked about nine years in Santa Clarita, Hayward, Oakland and Stockton in main news, primarily as a news editor and also as a Page 1 designer. When I was helping run the prep desk here at The Times, former Sports Editor Bill Dwyre asked me to get involved with the dot-com operation. Now I work primarily as a web editor, doing everything from helping with the blogs to posting stories with photos and video, etc. It's been a great ride here, although we've seen our staffing level cut in half the last 6 or 7 years. It's tough to see colleagues lose their jobs, as many of you have probably experienced. Thanks for the kudos. I've got to be really honest, I'm not filling in for Mark Medina. I'm just kind of flying past every so often between my other duties to see how you're doing with what little we're offering you. Mark does a heckuva job. Unfortunately, August is the slowest month in our office, so every staff member, and I mean every one of us, takes some vacation time. So we're really short-handed
*_________________________________________________________________________*
(01) PHRED – OWNER - Dan Loumena, kicking ociation and taking names. Much love, thanks for sticking by us.
(02) WES- DRIVER - Dan, Thanks for writing an article Laker fans might have an interest in. Since Dan is again writing something we Laker fans might find interesting, I thought I'd drop in and give a word of support. Thanks Dan. Great job Dan. Way to keep the troops from killing each other.
(03) PUDDLE – RIDING SHOTGUN - Dan, I'm a little late to the praise bus, but I also wanted to add that I think you've done an admirable job filling in for Mark, whom we've come to fully embrace. We're a tough crowd and you've survived us. Thank you for your efforts.
(04) MAMBA24 – SWEET JESUS!!! This guy is good! Thanks Dan and speaking for Laker Nation ..OUT FREAKIN STANDING SIR!!!!Dan for all you do Lakers Nation Thansks You!
(05) MUD - thank you Dan Loumena.
(06)LEWSTRS - Dan Loumena -Just wanted to add thanks for understanding us...You are the only one doing a good job while MM is on vacation. We are demanding, I know, thanks for accomodating us.... Dan is the Man...best one you've done yet...I think you understand us now...Thanks
(07) JON K - Dan, I know this may be a bit of a baptism by fire for you, considering that we're not an even-keeled bunch, but this is a big part of the job. Managing the chaos produced by trolls and charlatans. You're getting it, Dan. You're really getting it.
(08) LAKERLASS - Thanks to Dan Loumena for caring about us. Dan, I think you're starting to have fun here. C'mon, you can admit it.
(09) EDWIN GUECO - Mr. Dan Loumena, thanks for rescuing your blog, if LAT editorial staff don't do something about it, this could be the beginning of the end. Please consult your legal luminaries and I would like to reiterate our "rights" as bloggers we are not public figures. We are not Luke, Mitch or Jerry Buss. Not one of us here except for Roland Lazenby are public figures therefore we don't deserve insults, prejudice and innuendos of this blog. It is the responsibility of LA Times to ensure free speech that is civil, free from hatred (federal statutes) and further defamation of character by people abusing your system of instant posting and lax enforcement in tracing the source of multiple handles.
(10) MAGIC PHIL - put mein the Dan bandwagon, the guy did a great job! Dan for president!!
(11) PSYCHEDLAKERGIRL - Awesome history post Dan - love it. I think Dan has had his - "you like me, you really like me" moment. Way to go! PLG
(12) CALIPHILOSOPHER - Please put me on the bandwagon supporting Dan "The Man" Loumena
(13) utzworld THE BANNER HOLDER - I think Dan & MM should share Lakers Blog moderation duties this season. Let MM do the game recaps & let Dan cover the intangibles.
(14) CYBERCOSMIX - Dan, MM does a good job and it's hard to replace a 'legend' (hehe...) but it was good to read your bio and get a chance to know you a bit. For the record and what it's worth, I feel each of your blog entries have gotten progressively better and better. At this rate, by the time MM returns we'll have a solid replacement. In Laker terminology, it's Nick Van Exel getting injured, and D-Fish coming in and doing a nice job filling in. Anyone have a better Laker analogy??? Great job on a blog entry that is interesting to all basketball fans, LRob and Dan
(15) iheartkb24 - Dan - good job filling in for MM and thanks for cleaning the blog...
(16) HALOSANT - Dan L. - I think that we can all agree that when MM returns you still need to drop in and even become a a regular here. (Even though you are a Blazers Fan, if we put up with certain Chowd Fans we can put up with you too.)
(17) ART-FL LAKERS FAN – Dan I like how you turn a phrase. And there is now no doubt Dan has figured out this blog thing, he even reposts his comments from the previous thread. Way to go Dan!
(18) NOAH - Dan Loumena You've made some friends. Adding my thanks for making an effort.
(19) LROB – put me on that thank you Dan bandwagon. Any man that post at 3am is alright with me. Plus he actually has dialogue with posters. Dan gets it!
(20) NEWMEXICOLAKERLIFER - Dan.... You're doing a great job of holding down the fort till MM comes back.
(21) LAKERMIKE & MRS. LAKERMIKE - Add me to the Bandwagon in favor of Dan. Although we are counting the days to MM's return, it is nice to have a Sub who seems to get it.
(22) DON’T BLAME DEL HARRIS – DAN Well done, sir. You have impressed the natives with your efforts. If MM is our blog's flux capacitor, then surely you were the plutonium ibn his absence. Dan = Lakers Blog Sixth Man. YUP
(23) THE SNAKE – DAN I was on a project in Willamette Valley 5 years ago. Excllent vineyards; IMHO, some of the best Pinot Noir's outside of Napa.
(24) D(EREK) J(ETER) - Please add me to the Dan-Band and the Mamba24 Bus! Gotta get back to BP, my AVE is slipping some! Still winning though, just like my Lakers, ha, ha.
(25) JOHNNY P -And DAN, if you have any connections with THEO RATLIFF recommend he add some DIT TA JOW to his MINERAL regiment. THEO WILL BE HIGH ON THE FACT OF FINALLY GETTING THE TITLE !! HE WILL SOAR !!!!

hey man , where ya been , my buddy forwarded me this http://sportscomplainer.com thing. ima forward it to u cuz i know u like those types of places cya man

LRob

Thanks, man. Great stuff! The interesting part is that the Bucks did win the NBA championship in 1971, but then went downhill after that. He forced a trade to the Lakers in June, 1975 and did not win a championship until the arrival of Magic Johnson, so for 8 years from 1972 through 1979, he went ringless. During those years, he was at his statistical peak, too. Some of his teams had great regular season records and some didn't (much like LeBron James). Yes, from 1980 - 89, he appeared in 8 NBA Finals, winning 5 of them with some of the greatest teams to ever grace a basketball court, but once again it goes to show you that great players simply cannot do it by themselves. He won his first ring with the Big O while he still had game and the next 5 with Magic.

In the final analysis, give me Wilt in his prime hands down. Kareem's ringless years were during the NBA's dog days when, other than the 1971-72 Lakers and the 1976-77 Blazers (even that is arguable because they were the youngest team to ever win it, their starting 5 averaging 24 years of age), the league was expanding and its championship teams weren't THAT great. Meanwhile, Wilt had a small little obstacle during virtually his entire career ... the Boston Celtics.

This post is totally awesome.

Excuse me for what sounds like one of my tweets (insert image of a histerical "awwww"-speaking female in her most girlie suit, all about "awesome"-ness and "cool"-ness, and that's pretty much me on Twitter...) but that rash out of my fingertips naturally.

I will actually write my "today" post in the next thread, but this deserved at least some on-location waving hands.

I thank as well Dan for his presence here (we're good kids in the end, but we need some discipline) and LRob for these beautiful insights.

Man, how I love this blog. I never even felt like enjoying Billboards, Forums or anything else before I lurked here, and after a couple years decided to start posting.

You are my English Teachers, my Basketball Bible, my IntelligentHumour Company and my Inspirational People and I do like you all so incredibly much.

;)
(this is my post, and as it seems some nuthead still livid over not getting love from here, I better link it from my Twitter, so to discourage faking efficaciously - among notes: I'm all for a registering and log-in policy, but that is already known...)

Stepping up in next thread...

Hey Lewstrs.. I want a ride on the Love That Mamba Bus!!

Are there any centers or any player that plays now that can dominate both ends of the court? The game is so different with the 3 point line and rule changes regarding fouling.

The game was different when the centers were the talk of the tabloids. Kindof like heavyweight boxers, the sport is better when centers can change the game.

Now that things like jersey and ticket sales are so important, the NBA does not promote big men as much. Average sized or shorter people can never aspire to be that tall. So its harder to relate to them. Does this explain the wild popularity and jersey sales of guards?

Again what center is there now that changes the game on both ends of the court? Certainly not Dwight, but at least he plays defense!

I think this helps to explain the love of basketball history, Wilt, Kareem...they could dominate the game (and maybe have a quikie at halftime??). How does a guy contest every shot in the lane, expend huge energy rebounding, then still find the energy to shoot smoothly, and pass quickly and smartly as they fatigue. Its much harder to defend the paint and lead the team in scoring at the same time.

Players today are too one-dimensional (football as well). I think this helps to explain to the <25 yr. old crowd the fond respect many have for the great centers.

For me, I loved how some players could win games by getting 3 points the hard way (and some bumps, welts, bruises, and chipped in the in the process!)

Justa

I want to thank you for reminding me again how people of your age group comment online. Written word often is interpreted differently by different generations. Often posts from Gen Y, seem like offensive attacks. But really its a style of friendship,
----------------------------------------------
L.Rob, you must be old as munny dust dud, all this history crap, it's the past man. You need to look forward and STOP reliving history, it's got to be your glory days.

L.Rob to much time on to keyboard man, try getting a woman at some point man it can help.

Posted by: JUSTA HATER | September 01, 2010 at 09:55 PM
-------------------------------------------
L.Rob- just having fun, enjoying your post.

Posted by: JUSTA HATER | September 01, 2010 at 10:14 PM

Excellent informative posts by LRob on the Wilt and Kareem matchups.

Wilt was the most impressive center I have ever watched play the game. Awesome physical presence, versatile, highly skilled, dominant. And, his self-reported gargantuan appetite for the ladies added to his legendary status.

Wilt was much better than Shaq in all phases of the game, during all of Wilt's career.

Kareem was the BEST Laker's center. Even nearing the end of Kareem's career he was doing better that Bynum does now after five years. However, I'm willing to give Bynum the benefit of the doubt since he is quite young and has been injured for three years in a row.

Hey, Dan Loumena, good job in filling in for Mark. You helped keep us rolling along during the quiet NBA summertime.


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