Will the 2010-2011 squad be the best Laker team under Jerry Buss?
Lakers owner Jerry Buss wasn't shy about setting the bar for the 2010-2011 season. "As of now, I feel there's a good chance this could be the best team we've ever had," he told reporters Tuesday. Fitting he made those comments at the Bicycle Casino in Bell Gardens, where he was hosting a charity poker tournament for the Lakers' youth foundation, because that just raises the stakes for the Lakers even more.
There are reasons why Buss feels so optimistic only days since being inducted in the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame. The Lakers are back-to-back champions. They have their main corps in Kobe Bryant, Pau Gasol, Andrew Bynum, Lamar Odom and Ron Artest locked into long-term contracts. Despite concerns over limiting spending this off-season because of luxury tax implications, Buss and the Lakers decided to spend anyway, re-signing Phil Jackson and Derek Fisher, and upgraded their roster by snagging free agents Steve Blake, Matt Barnes and Theo Ratliff and two second-round picks -- Devin Ebanks and Derrick Caracter -- who some consider a steal. Add the fact that many of the injured players last season (Bryant, Bynum and Gasol) are abstaining from basketball this summer and there's plenty of reason why Buss should feel optimistic.
Still, Buss' proclamation is bold, considering the impressive teams that helped him win 10 championships since purchasing the team in 1979 and because Eastern Conference teams in Miami, Chicago, Boston and Orlando all seem to be gunning for the Lakers. In order for the 2010-2011 team to be considered the best under Buss' watch, at least statistically, the Lakers would obviously need to win a title, go undefeated in the postseason to eclipse the 15-1 mark the 2001 team set, and surpass the 65-17 regular season record the 1987 and 2009 Laker championship teams compiled.
Of course, numbers don't mean everything. For example, some Laker fans would value an NBA title over the Celtics (1985, 1987, 2010) more than, say, a championship against the Philadelphia 76ers (2001) or New Jersey Nets (2002). In order for the Lakers to boost their profile as the greatest in the Buss era, would they need to beat Miami to prove the Super team isn't all that super? Or would the Lakers have to win against Boston so the two franchises would be tied for total championships (17) and so Kobe Bryant can get one of his rings against Shaq?
Then there's the case of how the team on paper meshes in reality. Below the jump are the best and worst-case scenarios
Best-case scenario: In a way, the Lakers' road to a three-peat should be easier than in their quest last year to win a second consecutive title. With the Lakers upgrading their roster, the bench will live up to the Bench Mob name again and enable the starters to rest, making them even sharper for the playoffs. The Lakers' starting lineup will gladly welcome the reduced minutes, but they enter this season even sharper than before. Bryant and Gasol sat out of the 2010 FIBA World Championships, Bryant and Bynum had successful arthroscopic knee surgery, Odom fine-tuned his game with Team USA and Ron Artest now knows what winning a championship tastes like.
As much as I criticized the Lakers last season for their ... here it comes ... sense of urgency, some of it was rooted in the fact that players were hurt and that discontinuity in the rotation hurt the team's chemistry. As much as the Lakers turned it on in the playoffs, they crawled to the finish because their fatigue and injuries made it difficult to fight through. As much as Laker fans may not want to admit it, the Heat's off-season movement in re-signing Dwyane Wade and acquiring LeBron James and Chris Bosh and the Celtics' picking up Shaquille O'Neal may be the best thing that happens to the Lakers. It'll help keep them motivated in proving emphatically that they're still the best team in the league, and it'll give them something to play for during the dog days of the NBA regular season.
Worst-case scenario: The Lakers may not be as healthy as they'd hope to be. Bynum is expected to be limited during training camp, which starts Sept. 25, but is expected to be 100% once the regular season goes. But we all know how initial assessments regarding Bynum usually turn out to be wrong. It wouldn't be surprising to many if Bynum experiences setbacks with his knee (or has another injury, for that matter), making him less effective than he could be. That'll immediately put a strain on Gasol, Odom and Ratliff with increased minutes and increased responsibilities. As a result, Ebanks and Caracter may get some run to ease Gasol's and Odom's minutes, but they'll remain a work in progress.
Even though Bryant took it easy this past summer and had successful surgery on his knee, what about his index finger? It's not known whether he's having surgery, but Lakers General Manager Mitch Kupchak correctly remarked last month that "as the summer goes on, it’s less and less a possibility as you get closer and closer to training camp." That means if arthritis in his finger still exists, Bryant's shooting problems may persist, causing his shooting percentage to drop and forcing him to be more selective with his drives to the basket.
And then there are the new additions. Even if the Lakers have a more talented bench than last season, it's inevitably going to take time before the newcomers fully adjust. There are some potential problems that could happen. With Blake commanding most of the bench minutes at point guard, how will Shannon Brown and Sasha Vujacic respond? Will they feel less involved and inclined to either force the issue or just remain disengaged?
What about Matt Barnes? He's already slapped an opposing team's summer coach. Even if he has the checks and balances with Jackson, Bryant and Fisher, there might be instances where Barnes' emotion gets him a costly foul or technical that costs the Lakers a game or a playoff series.
--Mark Medina
Follow the L.A. Times Lakers blog on Twitter: twitter.com/latmedina. E-mail the Lakers blog at mgmedin@gmail.com.
Photo: Lakers owner Jerry Buss talks on his cellphone following a press conference at the Bicycle Casino in Bell Gardens on Tuesday. Credit: Wally Skalij/Los Angeles Times.
MM,
Ask me again in June.
Until then, the teams go like this... (the caveat being it must be a championship year)
1. 1972
2. 1987
3. 1988
4. 1985
5. 2001
6. 2002
7. 2000
8. 2009
9. 1982
10.1980
DBDH!
Posted by: Don't Blame Del Harris! | August 18, 2010 at 03:49 PM
YESSSSSSSSSSS
Posted by: Magic Phil | August 18, 2010 at 04:02 PM
My vote?
An emphatic HELL TO THE YES.
My reasons?
See above. MM - you really need to cut it out:)
An intact core, a resigning of PJ & Fish & Shannon, upgrades to the bench, a couple of potentially great rookies, a healthier group, and motivation added not only from the Eastern teams that "improved" but the ring count we're aiming at - I say this has the makings of an exceptional team. If nothing else, it's going to be a blast following the twists & turns of the season and on into the playoffs.
We're coming for you NBA - better get ready!
Posted by: justanothermambafan | August 18, 2010 at 04:05 PM
quite possible but depends on bynums knees.
Posted by: yellofever | August 18, 2010 at 04:20 PM
Magic, James, Cap, Bscott, Coop, Macadoo, Silk the Lakers best...
Greatest Lakers, one with the statue.
Best Laker blogger with prolific writing skills, Edwin Gueco.
Oldest Laker fan lakerTom
Posted by: Showtime | August 18, 2010 at 04:45 PM
yellowfever is right.
If Bynum plays consistently at an All-Star level and maintains his health and the rest of the team plays at their potential AND STAYS HEALTHY this could be Buss' best team... but that's a lot of "ifs."
What do we play for? RINGS!!!
Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.
GO LAKERS!!!
Posted by: Jon K. | August 18, 2010 at 04:47 PM
On “Celtics' picking up Shaquille O'Neal” here is a historical analogy worth considering. When Shaq was with the Lakers, he sometimes referred to himself as the General. Ring a bell? Benedict Arnold was a general during the American Revolutionary War, and was considered by many to be the best general and most accomplished leader in the Continental Army. Without Arnold's earlier contributions to the cause, the American Revolution might have been lost. He distinguished himself through acts of cunning and bravery in fighting the British. However when he was passed over for promotion by the Continental Congress (e.g., perhaps not too unlike an NBA team deciding one player should not be given untradeable status), Arnold plotted unsuccessfully to surrender West Point which he commanded to the British. After that plot was exposed (perhaps not too unlike a former NBA teammate’s bad acts against a current beloved loyal player coming to light), Arnold went over to the other side volunteering to enter the British Army and was given a commission as a brigadier general (ordinarily with an annual income of several hundred pounds, but which only paid him £6,315 plus an annual pension of £360 because his plot failed). He led British forces on raids in Virginia, and against New London and Groton, Connecticut, before the war effectively ended with the American victory at Yorktown. Only because he switched sides, Arnold’s name became a byword for treason in the United States and he is not given the same honors as those loyal contributors who built this great nation. Does Shaq’s act of voluntarily joining the Boston Celtics ring a bell yet? I’ve not seen reports of a gun pointed at Shaq’s head or of Shaq being in desperate need for $2.7million when he signed that contract with the Lakers arch rival. By the way, Arnold died in London and I don't think there were surveys about or calls for his remains to be returned to the US for internment at Arlington National Cemetery or nearby rafters for that matter.
Posted by: LJP305 | August 18, 2010 at 04:49 PM
I'm glad that the Lakers' 76 year old owner can still get excited like a little kid! If he means that the way it came across; i.e., better than any of his Showtime teams or the 2001 playoff juggernaut Kobe-Shaq team, that's one helluva challenge to his players and coaching staff!
I can see why Dr. Buss might make such a bold statement:
1) This core of this team will have been together for 4 seasons entering the 2011 playoffs;
2) Andrew Bynum will only get better (assuming the obvious);
3) Ron Artest will be more comfortable with this team playing with it for the second consecutive season and he proclaimed his desire to keep improving right after Game 7;
4) We added 3 proven veterans at the lead guard, small forward and center positions who have started for other GOOD teams and whose games seem tailor-made for the Lakers defensive schemes and the triangle (especially Blake);
5) The hungriest player in the NBA, Kobe Bryant, will be aiming to lead his team to a franchise record 6th championship, eclipsing ALL Laker greats and will tie him with Michael Jordan. Dr. Buss understands the motivation behind Kobe and what better season for Kobe to truly display his greatness than this season when he can tie Jordan?; and
6) What better way to show appreciation for Coach Eleven Rings than to send him off into the sunset with a season that he can look back on and say: "The 2011 Lakers were the greatest team I ever coached."
Posted by: KobeMVP888 | August 18, 2010 at 04:49 PM
MM,
"As much as Laker fans may not want to admit it, the Heat's off-season movement in re-signing Dwyane Wade and acquiring LeBron James and Chris Bosh and the Celtics' picking up Shaquille O'Neal may be the best thing that happens to the Lakers."
I don't hate to admit it at all.
We needed this. Well, we didn't really need it, but it sure helps give that extra little motivation to keep our eye on the prize.
Are we going to let Shaq tie Kobe in rings while wearing a fricken Celtics uniform?
HELL NO!!!!
Are we going to let the Miami Meat and LeCreep get a ring after the sickening narcissism of "The Decision?"
HELL NO!!!
No way. No how. Uh uh.
What do we play for? RINGS!!!
Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.
GO LAKERS!!!
Posted by: Jon K. | August 18, 2010 at 05:10 PM
Strongest of the last three years, weakest of all the rest of the championship teams. Come on , now . . . . . this is a really, really good team. Great? Transcendent? Timeless? Laughable.
Posted by: Otis | August 18, 2010 at 05:11 PM
It is still the Showtime Lakers by a wide margin. Win or lose they were exciting. Along with the all time, all star line up basketball has not seen their like since. The inability of any team since them to match Showtime speaks volumes.
Posted by: Zzanzabar | August 18, 2010 at 05:12 PM
Well.. that's giving a lot of credit to Gasol and Bynum, esp. Bynum. This is assuming Gasol is HOF, and perennially a title contender. It's saying basically Bynum is better than Kareem Abdul Jabbar, which isn't going to happen until about 3 yrs from now.. He won't be able to even touch the dude really until a few more years ago.
When the Lakers win the 3rd in a row, the argument can be made immediately, and the caveat is I think the 2011-2012 team will be the best (assuming Phil Jackson stays) since everyone will be so acquainted with the triangle, albeit, the Lakers will have to re-sign another potent shotblocker like theo Ratliff, because he’s the only guy with a 1-yr contract who might not be here although you never know.
Posted by: PointForward | August 18, 2010 at 05:16 PM
Well, Buss pretty much got to say that because he's excited and it's not really a smart thing to tell your team before the season 'well, i don't think you really stand a chance of accomplishing much compared to my previous teams, even if you win a ring'
I don't think it is really a serious possibility unless some players do a lot better than expected. Like Bynum playing as good as LakerTom thinks he can, or Kobe playing like he was 25 again.
Then maybe.
But I guess my question is just an open ended one, designed to provoke thought more than an absolute answer 'what makes a team great?'
I agree with FCM on his 'numbers vs opponents' question, but I want to think relative to this year; Which is better for a team to do, put up better numbers against lousy league, or put up ok numbers and win against a stacked league?
Is it possible for this team to lose the finals in say, seven games and still be better than last years team?
Just posing the question. I'm not saying it's likely or not likely to happen, I just want to provoke thought.
Posted by: phred | August 18, 2010 at 05:31 PM
Phred,
Interesting. I think this years team has the potential to be lethal on the court, not because of scoring, but rather defense. This could be the best defensive team the Lakers have ever had. And, for all the people who doubt Bynum's value, please take a few moments to go back and watch some of the past games. When Bynum is on the floor, teams seldom attack the middle. When Bynum goes out and LO comes in, there's a layup line to the basket. Regardless of what some think, Bynum does anchor the middle on defense and has the respect of other teams coaches and players. This will be a monster year for Bynum!
Is this the greatest Laker tem ever? Well, that remains to be seen. If it is, it will be due to the defensive effort. They won't rival the offensive power of the "Show Time" teams.
Posted by: Laker Larry | August 18, 2010 at 05:53 PM
Best Laker blogger with prolific writing skills, Edwin Gueco.
Oldest Laker fan lakerTom
Posted by: Showtime
~~Thanks but no thanks. it should be the other way around, I salute to my friend, LakerTom as the best essayist in the blog. He could be a LA Times sports columnist if only he can restrain himself of talking on one player. I have a lot of errors and missing words just take those post with a grain of salt. It is designed for entertainment on the dog days in the blog. On rest mode after a long journey today.
Posted by: Edwin Gueco | August 18, 2010 at 05:53 PM
First No Rings gets all defensive about the way he handled "The Decision," saying he wouldn't change a thing. Then Bosh defends himself against Jerry Colangelo's observation of his quitting attitude (I guess he's just a loser).
Now this from RealGM.com:
Heat star Dwyane Wade has two All-Stars alongside him now in LeBron James and Chris Bosh, but he doesn't expect his role to change on the court.
"The same pretty much," Wade told CBS Sports.
"You know, I handled the ball a lot last season in Miami. I also played off the ball a lot. I don't think that changes a lot. I'm a playmaker, and I'm going to score. At the end of the day, my job is to put the ball in the basket. I'm also going to create opportunities for my teammates, and that won't change."
====
Who does that sound like? A clone who plays the other wing position. This is going to be interesting. Two young superstars getting all defensive about the criticism lobbed at them and the third saying: "It's MY team!"
Posted by: KobeMVP888 | August 18, 2010 at 06:06 PM
It is still the Showtime Lakers by a wide margin. Win or lose they were exciting. Along with the all time, all star line up basketball has not seen their like since. The inability of any team since them to match Showtime speaks volumes.
Posted by: Zzanzabar | August 18, 2010 at 05:12 PM
Totally agree. Showtime in its prime...nothing can compare to that type of explosiveness. The 2011 team will be very talented, but not legendary. But just to mention them as one of the top teams in history shows tremendous respect. If they live up to potential, they should be top three.
Posted by: Logo44 | August 18, 2010 at 06:26 PM
@PETE MAGUIRE… Great to hear from you, Pete. Thanks for the kind words. I was disappointed in Farmar but really like Blake’s signing. And you were right that Steve outplayed our point guards many times and that likely had a lot to do with why we signed him. Big upgrade over Farmar.
~
As for Drew, we would not have won the championship over the Celtics without his contributions. And the biggest offseason development was not LeBron and Bosh signing with Miami but the fact that practically every team in the league was copying the Lakers and loading up on big men.
~
I think the Lakers have already made their decision on Andrew. Bottom line, they understand that you do not trade a rare talent like Andrew despite your concerns over injuries. His value will either soar if healthy or dive if injured. At the worst, the Lakers have won back-to-back titles with Drew. At the best, he still has a chance to become an All-Star and franchise player. He is only 23.
~
The last two years have certainly been fun and rewarding, well worth going through the Smush and Kwame era in my mind, especially since we got to see Kobe go off for 81 and 63, something we should cherish and won’t see again. Compare that to other teams. That’s rebuilding Lakers style.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
@KOBEMVP… Thanks again for the great posts to critics of Andrew Bynum. You made a great point about how Drew was really unheralded compared to most of the great centers in league history. That once was the rallying cry for the Bynum Bashers who proclaimed that was proof that Drew would never be a franchise center. Now, they’re left with proclaiming him injury prone.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
TOM
Posted by: LakerTom | August 18, 2010 at 07:02 PM
MagicPhil - I hope you're right about Theo. Being in Detroit...I watched him a lot when the Pistons signed him for the playoff run in 2008. Expecting him to play a slightly bigger role than the Lakers probably expect. He was their 4th big man behind Sheed, McDyess and Maxiell...playing most games about 10 minutes a game. He had a disappointing playoff. Then last year he was even worst in the playoffs. That's why I've been less than enthusiastic about Theo's signing. Again I hope I'm wrong.
JonK - I agree that Theo was probably signed cause he wouldn't rock the boat or worry about minutes. He was a very good defensive player in his day...so helpfully he can help put AB focus more on defense.
Posted by: LRob | August 18, 2010 at 07:08 PM
Otis has said it all.
Anyone who disagrees was probably just not watching basketball in the 1980s.
Posted by: jimjoyce | August 18, 2010 at 07:28 PM
Triangular and Rocky,
I enjoyed your posts on the Eddie Jones/Glenn Rice trade. I too was also disappointed with that trade. Shaq finger prints are all over that trade. He kept saying he needed a rebounder and a shooter. The Lakers brought in Rodman to fill part of Shaq's request. We all know how that worked out.
Shaq became very critical of Eddie toward the end of Edde's run with the Lakers. I remember after one lost in Washington, Shaq said the Lakers had a lot of Rex Chapman wannabees shooting one legged log jumpers. Basically he was calling out Eddie. Now I not saying EJ wasn't without faults. He's wasn't a good clutch shooter. But all the Lakers had to do was wait for Kobe to develop that clutch part of his game and then Eddie could've been allowed to be the 3rd option. He would have thrived with PJ in the triangle and him and Kobe defense on the wings would've been devastating.
Yep if it wasn't for Shaq's whining I feel the Lakers would've been even better from 2000-2005.
Posted by: LRob | August 18, 2010 at 07:29 PM
I think what is exciting is the potential for improvement in an already championship team. Bynum and Brown could make significant improvement in their game, and both have great impact potential. Blake, Barnes and Theo will be better then Farmar, Luke and Mbenga. Sasha has played better in the past then what he showed last year. Caracter and Eubanks; potential energy off the bench or fouls to give. Gasahl, Odum and Artest should at least be as good. Fisher can slip a little with no effect to the team. If Kobe can get his playing time down to the 35 min. range he will not decline and could be even greater. I CAN'T WAIT FOR THE SEASON TO START!
Posted by: Nick | August 18, 2010 at 07:31 PM
for dr. buss to come out and say THIS, well, you might have to believe him. he's a man of few words and for him to be "geeked up" about the upcoming season, well. i for one agree with him. it's nice to see OUR OWNER be "kid-like" still after all of these years. NOW, if the dodgers could find an owner like dr. buss, L.A. pro sports teams would be on top of the world!
Posted by: Lakeshowinphx | August 18, 2010 at 07:33 PM
@LAKER LARRY… “And, for all the people who doubt Bynum's value, please take a few moments to go back and watch some of the past games. When Bynum is on the floor, teams seldom attack the middle. When Bynum goes out and LO comes in, there's a layup line to the basket. Regardless of what some think, Bynum does anchor the middle on defense and has the respect of other teams coaches and players. “
~
That should be the RCOD, Larry. It also is a great litmus test for Drew’s critics to pass. I know one poster who always went ballistic whenever I pointed that same fact out. If you watched the games all season long, you would have to understand Drew’s value as the anchor to the defense and how he deters more shots than all those he alters or blocks. I recall George Karl screaming at his team to take the ball to the basket and not to let Bynum intimidate them. And the problem with the interior defense when Drew leaves in not Odom in my opinion but Pau who does not want to pick up fouls.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
TOM
Posted by: LakerTom | August 18, 2010 at 07:39 PM
As the Lakers owner and #1 Fan said, this team has the 'makings' of one of his best.
I agree with Dr. Buss and trust his excellent judgment and eye for team talent.
The season will have to play out first, the 'what ifs' must come to fulfillment, players will have to stay healthy, but....it could become one of our greatest teams.
Already a three-time Finals visitor, and winning back to back. This team is poised to compete and win again.
Kobe and the key players are in their prime in a system they have a full command of. In my opinion, they are better defensively than the previous teams.
Last year in the playoffs we played with health issues slowing us down. And yet, we still won and dominated defensively in the Finals.
Add the additions, the improvement, and some good luck with health and yes, I see why Dr Buss made that statement.
1971/72 was a machine, but it wasn't Dr Buss's team.
Next year will be fun, no matter where we end up comparing to Lakers great teams.
Funny, we have such high expectations for this team that we are comparing them to great teams of Lakers past, and not present NBA teams.
Posted by: Fatty | August 18, 2010 at 07:39 PM
Rick - I enjoyed your Kobe HOF speech. I hope you're right.
Art - Thanks for the selection. Kobe very well could talk about doing it his way or he could say there was nothing else he could do but hoop because "He just had basketball under his skin".
Posted by: LRob | August 18, 2010 at 07:54 PM
@EDWIN… LOL. Actually, neither of us is the oldest Laker blogger. I remember a couple of Lakers fans who started rooting for the team in Minnesota and, if my memory hasn’t totally abandoned me, I think I remember Pete Maguire telling us about playing against Gail Goodrich in college. Now I know I was a couple of years younger than GG. Anyway, funny thing is when you get old, you’re still the same person. You’re just limited to dunking in your dreams rather than on the court. LOL!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
TOM
Posted by: LakerTom | August 18, 2010 at 07:56 PM
I like the 85 Lakers as the best in the Buss era:
Magic, Kareem, Worthy, Byron, McAdoo, Coop, Rambis, McGhee and Spriggs. I like this team better than 87 because Kareem was still very good...winning the finals MVP. Three HOFers.
2011 Lakers have the potential to be the best during Kobe's tenure....if Bynum can remain healthy.
Posted by: LRob | August 18, 2010 at 08:07 PM
5) The hungriest player in the NBA, Kobe Bryant, will be aiming to lead his team to a franchise record 6th championship, eclipsing ALL Laker greats and will tie him with Michael Jordan. Dr. Buss understands the motivation behind Kobe and what better season for Kobe to truly display his greatness than this season when he can tie Jordan?; and
6) What better way to show appreciation for Coach Eleven Rings than to send him off into the sunset with a season that he can look back on and say: "The 2011 Lakers were the greatest team I ever coached."
Posted by: KobeMVP888 | August 18, 2010 at 04:49 PM
Excellent observations about Kobe's drive and determination. He continues to amaze. Of course, Phil will never say a team or player is the greatest...unless he comes back and they 4peat. Then he may be forced to say this is the best team and Kobe is the best player. Wouldn't that be something?
Posted by: LRob | August 18, 2010 at 08:18 PM
Is it possible for this team to lose the finals in say, seven games and still be better than last years team?
Just posing the question. I'm not saying it's likely or not likely to happen, I just want to provoke thought.
Posted by: phred | August 18, 2010 at 05:31 PM
Not possible. This years team found a way to win despite the injuries and despite the horrendous shooting in gm 7. If the 2011 Lakers want to be considered better they have to win it all.
Posted by: LRob | August 18, 2010 at 08:21 PM
) No, you don't "like Bynum." If you did, you'd accept the process of his development and appreciate the sacrifices required of him to make this team work.
No I do like Bynum I don't like the people who vastly overrate him and say "He dominated Howard in Game 1 of the 09 Finals" when there was Games 2-5 to play. It is those people who ignore Gasol's contributions on the defense end when he MANHANDLED Dwight Howard yet gets his defense to be undervalued by Laker Tom. I don't hate Bynum nor do I cheer for him being injured. It his fans who just love to point out the POSITIVES yet totally ignore the Negatives for Bynum. Just like those who forget that KB does have his limitations (i.e. 40% shooting average in the Finals). You tell me I have no patience...LOL wait until the Lakers have games they lose.
"2) It would be foolhardy for Bynum to LEAD a team that has a veteran core starting with Kobe Bryant and Pau Gasol. I have absolutely no idea what you meant by this."
Kobe Bryant was setting up the defense....running the offense in his first year with Phil...and basically was one of the leading voices in the locker room that included Robert Horry (who stood up for other teammates in games while Kobe and Shaq complained about their own calls), Rick Fox, Ron Harper, and Brian Shaw. How much of a leadership position has Bynum taken? None. Even Gasol has taken some leadership position (mind you not as much as Fisher) and he's been on the team far less than Bynum has. You know when Bynum is capable of being a dominant force but all at the moment is talking about the Celtics and having a brainfart according to Jackson or complaining about his minutes and being distracted against a very talented Denver team in 2009. Great thing to have as a first option....
"What does Ariza have to do with this?"'
Same people who overrated him as a potential all-star almost the same with Bynum as a "dominant force". And proving me wrong? About what? Having a big mouth? Being inconsistent with a 19 point game against Boston then 6 points against Memphis? Being a rider with a legendary coach and player? He sure proved me wrong on those things hehe. Did I say he wasn't a hard worker? Did I deny he wasn't working out with the Lakers in Canada? Did I say he stayed in Europe just partying? No I didn't yet you bring up about how hard he works.
Let's see the things he hasn't proved to me: Leadership in spite of age/being a consistent note: consistent force offensively. Being the main reason the Lakers are great defensively (but still a big factor at times he is). Making his teammates better. Becoming a force in the NBA that scares the NBA. Again: HE HAS TIME TO PROVE ME WRONG.
So don't get your feathers ruffled because I say he hasn't yet but you get so pissy that I don't? Why? Is it your life mission to prove me wrong about Bynum? Ariza proved me wrong sorta yet Bynum hasn't but you want to ignore any good points I have and just keep on yacking and yacking away about how I'm wrong about Bynum. When he does get up some MVP votes in the Finals of course I'm more than willing to say I was wrong but you....LOL it's like a crusade for you KobeMVP888.
Again you are not going to convince me about Bynum just as much as I'm not going to convince you. Only one person can prove me wrong: Andrew Bynum. So I do ask we STOP and just simply talk about something else ok?
Posted by: KB Blitz | August 18, 2010 at 08:26 PM
This is a talented team, loaded with bigs and guards. Statistics tell all. If we go 73-9 and 16-0, we can declare that the 2010-2011 Lakers are the best ever. Anything short of this, the debate shall continue and be permanently unresolved.
Posted by: steve | August 18, 2010 at 08:33 PM
The last two years have certainly been fun and rewarding, well worth going through the Smush and Kwame era in my mind, especially since we got to see Kobe go off for 81 and 63, something we should cherish and won’t see again. Compare that to other teams. That’s rebuilding Lakers style.
Posted by: LakerTom | August 18, 2010 at 07:02 PM
Those two Kobe-centric years were amazing. It was must see TV every night. I love seeing the Lakers win. But I also put a premium on entertaining basketball. And entertain Kobe did...
The 81pts, 63pts in 3qtrs and the MSG record.
The 50pt scoring spree, 2nd half eruption and game winner vs Clips
The "unnatural basketball act" and "Bigger fish to fry"
Yes, for those two years Kobe was the supreme showman.
Posted by: LRob | August 18, 2010 at 08:36 PM
As for the question. I doubt it. I will bring up the 1986-1987 LA Lakers. Kareem (even though he was the 3rd leading scorer), Earvin, James Worthy, Byron Scott, AC Green with Mychal Thompson and Michael Cooper as reserves. That team was plain brutal to hang off against. 1st in offense and even 7th in defense especially for a team that was super high octane pace in an era of handchecking and increased pace compared to today.
The closest team that would be after those Lakers would be the 1999-2000 squad. MVP Shaq, 22ppg Kobe, Glen Rice's last productive year, with Robert Horry/Rick Fox/Derek Fisher as reserves? Brutal still though not as brutal as the 1987 squad though make no mistake the 99-00 squad would hang with the best of Showtime.
Posted by: KB Blitz | August 18, 2010 at 08:39 PM
The Bynum factor....
Drew's value was never more evident than in gm 4 in the finals. He was severely hobbled and only played a couple of minutes in the 2nd half. Once the C's realized they didn't have AB to contend with they got very cocky.
Perkins took on Gasol and got physical. After every stop Perkins would trot down court with his arms crossed making an X sign...meaning he was locking Pau up. Then KG went into his antics. Getting in Lamars grill, tauting on D and even getting down on all four (like he did against Bayless). I believe that is also the same game that Little Nate got in Farmers face and got a T.
If you have that game on tape/tivo watch the 3rd quarter again and notice how brazen Boston got when it was evident that Bynum couldn't play.
Posted by: LRob | August 18, 2010 at 08:45 PM
Is it possible for this team to lose the finals in say, seven games and still be better than last year's team?
Posted by: phred | August 18, 2010 at 05:31 PM
Not possible: just ask the Patriots.
Posted by: 63 Footer | August 18, 2010 at 08:46 PM
I can overstand Dr.B's confidence in, and enthusiasm for this team for the coming season but, I'm not sure if this will be the best team under his ownership. There are too many uncertainties for me to feel that this team will be the greatest but, the potential is certainly there.
Of course, time will surely tell. :-)
Let's go Ls...all the way to a 3-peat!!!!!
Posted by: G in DC(aka GDUB) | August 18, 2010 at 08:54 PM
Mark, sure it was just a slip of the keyboard, but you ssay above if they win again the Kobe will have more rings then Shaq, he aslready does dude, 5 to 4.
it's OK, we all get confused sometimes. Let's see if Kobe can beat Horry, he's got seven, now there's a Target!
Posted by: Dan Adler | August 18, 2010 at 09:01 PM
Wow, grammar totally sucked there, sorry Laker faithful!
Posted by: Dan Adler | August 18, 2010 at 09:02 PM
If you have that game on tape/tivo watch the 3rd quarter again and notice how brazen Boston got when it was evident that Bynum couldn't play.
Posted by: LRob | August 18, 2010 at 08:45 PM
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Then what about Game 2 when Bynum and Gasol just blasted Boston's bigs yet the Lakers were still outrebounded? Or Game 5 when Bynum played 30 minutes yet Pierce went off (Lakers switched a TON resulting in Odom getting switched on Pierce to prevent Bynum from being on Pierce and resulting in a bad mismatch)?
Game 4 was the reserves of Boston beating LO a ton and abusing him. LO played soft and wasn't a factor was he was in the 09 series. Give credit to KG for that. He still intimidates. Big Baby found the right game to have a nice game. Did Big Baby go off in Game 6 LRob? What about Game 7?
And no Gasol wasn't locked up by Perkins. Gasol dropped 21 points. In comparison the games where Gasol played like a softie? 3 and 5 ironically when Bynum played around 30 min and Gasol was guarded by Garnett more. Gasol melted under Garnett's snarl in Boston (in LA was a different manner).
Hopefully this next season Gasol will prove again he's no softie and a very good center than we give him credit for.
Posted by: KB Blitz | August 18, 2010 at 09:07 PM
KB Blitz
My point about Bynum dominating Dwight Howard in the first quarter of Game 1 of the 2009 NBA Finals was twofold: 1) He did what was asked of him and THEN SOME, especially given his limitations due to injuries and 2) Phil Jackson happens to regard Game 1 of a playoff series as EXTREMELY IMPORTANT, as evidenced by his now undefeated 48-0 record in playoff series when his team has won Game 1. Therefore, the young, determined center did what was asked of him. I could care less what he did in Games 2-5 because the Lakers as a team knew there and then that they could beat the Magic 3 more games. You have a rather transparent way of twisting what others say with your bizarre logic, but the smart people in here see right through you. Besides, doesn't anyone really give a rat's ass whether you are "proved" right or wrong? It's actually rather pathetic that it's important to your sensitive ego at all.
I can't believe that you expect or even want young Andrew to have a leadership role on a team that boasts Kobe Bryant and Derek Fisher, two of the most respected players in the NBA on and off the court. Young Andrew simply needs to lead himself back to health and lead himself to acceptance of his role on THIS Lakers team. He accomplished the latter with flying colors in the playoffs this year and as his body matures and strengthens, let's hope he will also accomplish the former. What's interesting is that in the one game we lost at home, Game 2, he went for 21 and 6 (6-10 shooting), with 7 blocked shots, and if Ray Allen hadn't gone Chauncey Billups on us, Bynum would have been the talk of the game. Somehow he managed to log in 39 minutes on that bum knee as LO rotted on the bench in foul trouble. But he didn't do this by leading, he did it by being a good soldier, WHICH IS HIS ROLE ON THIS LAKERS TEAM.
So on this real important mission of yours to wish mediocrity on him to prove you right, I have some news for you and your fragile ego.
He has ALREADY proven you WRONG!
Posted by: KobeMVP888 | August 18, 2010 at 09:09 PM
) He did what was asked of him and THEN SOME, especially given his limitations due to injuries and 2) Phil Jackson happens to regard Game 1 of a playoff series as EXTREMELY IMPORTANT, as evidenced by his now undefeated 48-0 record in playoff series when his team has won Game 1.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Again you only take 1 game when Gasol did most of the heavy lifting in Game 1 and don't even give Gasol credit for handling Howard not to mention OUTPLAYING Howard in the 2009 series and give credit for Bynum for one quarter. No NBA fan would even get that logic. Sorry but that is just plain stupid.
"Besides, doesn't anyone really give a rat's ass whether you are "proved" right or wrong? It's actually rather pathetic that it's important to your sensitive ego at all."
You sure do.
"I can't believe that you expect or even want young Andrew to have a leadership role on a team that boasts Kobe Bryant and Derek Fisher, two of the most respected players in the NBA on and off the court."
If you are to be the future franchise player you are to DOMINATE and show why the hell the league should fear the Lakers for the next decade not just be scared of Bryant/Gasol currently. If he took command and was joining Bryant and Fisher then hell he is a franchise player! That's really all he needs to do to show me he's capable of leading this franchise beyond Kobe. But again with all the excuses "oh if he's on another team he's 20ppg according to JVG"....would it be as sucessful? You bring up how he so much of a beast defensively yet admit he's not even in Howard's league....my advice don't bother to say defensively. We all know how he is defensively: Good and leave at that don't be overrating or underrating that.
He has ALREADY proven you WRONG!
Posted by: KobeMVP888 | August 18, 2010 at 09:09 PM
By complaining against Phil in 2009? By having a brain fart in the PHX series? I don't get how he proved me wrong yet you keep saying he did....can you explain about what critiques he has proved me wrong?
Until then really stop posting on me about Bynum. You are neither his daddy nor his babysitter and keep telling me how he proved me wrong but 1) Neither mentioned how or 2) Bring up things that I didn't even blast him on.
How about another subject. Prime Kobe vs Prime Bird. Don't include achievements that's one thing. In a court who would come out in the end.
Posted by: KB Blitz | August 18, 2010 at 09:29 PM
DFish,
JustaLakerFan was just banned for personal attacks. I don't care how much Eric Wright was a factor in your initial banning. Beware is my advice even if Jon K. can be too zealous at times.
Posted by: KB Blitz | August 18, 2010 at 09:40 PM
Best team? Here's the best team under Dr. Buss's ownership: Starters on the left.
Magic.....Byron Scott
Kobe......Michael Cooper
Worthy....Artest
Gasol.....Odom
Kareem....Shaq
Can't touch this!
Posted by: Laker J | August 18, 2010 at 09:42 PM
This team has tremendous potential. There are three factors which will make this Laker team the greatest ever. They are:
1. Andrew Bynum will finally blossom into an All-Star caliber center, and be injury-free. Playing hurt in last year's Finals cemented him as a tough player that is willing to sacrifice, and good things always come to players that are talented and are willing to sacrifice.
2. The Lakers bench will be the best in the NBA. The bench mob has returned. The new additions are a mix of veterans and rookies with high upside, this bench could potentially beat some of the lowly teams starting units straight up.
3. The Lakers defense will be in the top three. Showtime has a different look these days. Defensive minded players dominate the roster. Artest, Barnes, Blake, and Theo Ratliff add toughness and veteran play. Throw in the great Kobe Bryant (Eight time all defensive first team), and you have a recipe for success.
Posted by: TNTLakerFan | August 18, 2010 at 09:45 PM
KB Blitz,
You lost me on your post. I'm not sure what your overall point was? I was only talking about Boston's demeanor changing after Bynum couldn't play in 3rd Qtr of gm4. If Perkins and Garnett did similar antics (crossed arms/lock up signal and getting on all four like a dog) in another gm let me know. I didn't mean that Perkins actually locked up Gasol only that he may a sign like he was locking him up.
Posted by: LRob | August 18, 2010 at 09:45 PM
This Bynum is great or is he just good debate is as entertaining as the justa vs justa patent ownership arguments. As long as the Lakers win, I'll live with Smush on the starting lineup and I absolutely hate that guy .
Posted by: p ang | August 18, 2010 at 09:49 PM
You need to go back to school junior. What about Jerry West ? Elgin Baylor ? Artest and Odom ? are you kidding !!!
Posted by: DFish | August 18, 2010 at 09:52 PM
Yo too cause you forgot to mention Wilt Chamberlain.
Posted by: BreakfastSausage | August 18, 2010 at 09:57 PM
Would'n mind to have this team:
In order of greatness:
1. Wilt Chamberlain, Jerry West, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Magic Jhonson.
2. Kobe Bryant, James Worthy, Gail Goodrich, Elgin Baylor.
3. Pau Gasol, Shraq The Big Green Ogre o just the traitor, Karl Malone.
Posted by: BreakfastSausage | August 18, 2010 at 10:03 PM
You lost me on your post. I'm not sure what your overall point was? I was only talking about Boston's demeanor changing after Bynum couldn't play in 3rd Qtr of gm4. If Perkins and Garnett did similar antics (crossed arms/lock up signal and getting on all four like a dog) in another gm let me know. I didn't mean that Perkins actually locked up Gasol only that he may a sign like he was locking him up.
Posted by: LRob | August 18, 2010 at 09:45 PM
----------------------------------------------------------------
Try Game 6 of the Orlando-Celtics 2010 series where Garnett tried to break Howard's arm and messed with Barnes. Garnett became a thug when he joined the Celtics. Bynum's presence didn't matter. He would have acted like a crazy dog against whoever.
The point is you can't judge Bynum's importance in 1 game especially in the NBA where it is a 7 game series. In the NFL playoffs yes you can accurately judge whoever's importance in one game. In the NBA/MLB/NHL it's a 7 game series to judge someone's importance. That's why Kobe deserved the Finals MVP even though in Game 2 Gasol and Bynum were the MVP's of that game or Game 7 when Artest was the most impactful.
Yeah Glen Davis erupted in that game. So did Nate Robinson. Did he erupt in Game 5 or even Game 6 and 7 when Bynum was out? Nope. Had Bynum been healthy it wouldn't have been a 7 game series. That being said if Glen Davis had erupted and drooled still and Nate being a donkey still happened...it wouldn't have mattered if Bynun was healthy or not....it's just they went off at the worst time.
Kinda saying that Shaq was dominated by Ben Wallace in 2004 Finals just because of Game 5 even though the last 4 games Shaq was more impactful than Wallace was. It's faulty logic.
Posted by: KB Blitz | August 18, 2010 at 10:05 PM
Actually George Mikan and Gail Goodrich weren't too bad either, just sayin.
Posted by: D(erek)J(eter) | August 18, 2010 at 10:08 PM
Well after reading my last post carefully i can't say which one was greater than the other because they were all just GOAT.
Lakers had great eras and great players. But Wilt and Magic stoled my heart.
Posted by: BreakfastSausage | August 18, 2010 at 10:09 PM
The greatest Laker team would be this:
C-Wilt Chamberlain
PF-Pau Gasol
SF-Elgin Baylor
SG-Kobe Bryant
PG-Earvin Johnson
Back ups
C-Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
PF-Happy Hairston or if I'm allowed to do Minneapolis Lakers then Clyde Lovellette
SF-James Worthy
SG-Jerry West
PG-Nick the Quick Van Exel
come on Laker Nation do the Homework!
Posted by: KB Blitz | August 18, 2010 at 10:11 PM
Let's at least mention Jamal "Silk" Wilkes as well.
Posted by: D(erek)J(eter) | August 18, 2010 at 10:12 PM
D(ummy)Fish. Do you not know how to read? Dr. Buss did not own the Lakers when Jerry West and Elgin Baylor played. Read the post first before you comment...Junior.
Posted by: Laker J | August 18, 2010 at 10:17 PM
Not laugh at me but even Mitch had a god role in 85 finals against Septics.
Posted by: BreakfastSausage | August 18, 2010 at 10:23 PM
Greatest Laker team that would be under Jerry Buss
C-Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
PF-Pau Gasol
SF-James Worthy
SG-Kobe Bryant
PG-Magic Johnson
Back ups
C-Shaquille O'Neal
PF-AC Green
SF-Jamaal Wilks
SG-Jerry West
PG-Nick Van Exel
Most Underrated Lakers Team under Buss
C-Andrew Bynum (yes and he will probably be on this list considering the talent ahead of him)
PF-AC Green
SF-Jamaal Wilks
SG-Eddie Jones
PG-Nick Van Exel
C-Vlade Divac
PF-Sam Perkins
SF-Glen Rice
SG-Michael Cooper
PG-Gail Goodrich
Posted by: KB Blitz | August 18, 2010 at 10:28 PM
KB, My post stated "under Dr. Buss's ownership" curious to see who you would pick using that criteria, and not best Lakers ever.
Posted by: Laker J | August 18, 2010 at 10:29 PM
Ha, you beat me to it!
Posted by: Laker J | August 18, 2010 at 10:31 PM
Alright KB, I like your team, but Jerry West did not play under Dr. Buss's ownership, did he?
Posted by: Laker J | August 18, 2010 at 10:34 PM
The point is you can't judge Bynum's importance in 1 game especially in the NBA where it is a 7 game series. In the NFL playoffs yes you can accurately judge whoever's importance in one game. In the NBA/MLB/NHL it's a 7 game series to judge someone's importance. That's why Kobe deserved the Finals MVP even though in Game 2 Gasol and Bynum were the MVP's of that game or Game 7 when Artest was the most impactful.
Posted by: KB Blitz | August 18, 2010 at 10:05 PM
------
Okay now I get your point. I agree that you have to judge the series as a whole and not just on a one game basis (Otherwise Ray Ray was MVP cause of lights out shooting in gm2.) I agree with point about Shrek and Donkey.
My original point was Boston acted like a "bully" in gm4 Q3 when Drew went down.
Yes, Garnett has been acting crazy for a long time and once he got on a great team like Boston in 2008 it went way over the top. That we agree on. However in the 2010 finals he I only saw him get down on all fours once and that was in the Q3 of gm4. The same with Perkins doing the antics I described. I only saw it in gm 4 Q3. This behavior happened right after Drew was hobbled to the point where he could not longer play. It could've been a coincidence, but I doubt it. Again if you saw either player behave like that in another game in the finals please point it out.
FYI, I posted this without reading the previous post you and KobeMVP888 had made today about Bynum...so I wasn't intending to get in the middle of WWIII. I'm not saying Bynum was the difference in the series. However, I do believe the Lakers would have lost without Bynum or any of their other top 6 players. Also, for the record I think you, KobeMVP88 and LakerTom each overstate your case in attempt to sway the jury...kinda like Johnny Bench would slide his mitt over a few inches to get that strike called by the ump.
Do me a favor and re-watch that quarter. Then I'm sure you'll see the antics I mentioned.
Posted by: LRob | August 18, 2010 at 10:34 PM
Greatest Laker team that would be under Jerry Buss
C-Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
PF-Pau Gasol
SF-James Worthy
SG-Kobe Bryant
PG-Magic Johnson
Posted by: KB Blitz | August 18, 2010 at 10:28 PM
Totally agree on that.
back ups
i'd also give some credit to Derek Fisher
Nice point on Vlade and Jamaal.
Posted by: BreakfastSausage | August 18, 2010 at 10:37 PM
KB Blitz,
Jerry and Gail didn't play doing Buss ownership
Posted by: LRob | August 18, 2010 at 10:39 PM
KB Blitz,
Jerry and Gail didn't play doing Buss ownership
Posted by: LRob
Blitz knew that. He was trying to see if we would catch it LOL.
Posted by: Laker J | August 18, 2010 at 10:42 PM
Alright KB, I like your team, but Jerry West did not play under Dr. Buss's ownership, did he?
Posted by: Laker J | August 18, 2010 at 10:34 PM
I don't think so Buss bought it on 1979 and West is played until 1973 and also Goodrich played until 76.
Posted by: BreakfastSausage | August 18, 2010 at 10:43 PM
Under Dr. Buss:
Coach : Riley
Style of play: Showtime
Magic, Kobe, Worthy, McAdoo, Shaq.
Note: KAJ was no longer in his prime during the Buss' years.
Coach: Jackson
Style of play: Triangle
Nick van Exel, Kobe, Wilkes, Gasol, Shaq.
Posted by: p ang | August 18, 2010 at 10:43 PM
Not laugh at me but even Mitch had a god role in 85 finals against Septics.
Posted by: BreakfastSausage | August 18, 2010 at 10:23 PM
Hey Breakfast - Mitch had minor role in 85...Maybe 9 or 10th man. Rambis was the starter and got the bulk of the minutes.
Posted by: LRob | August 18, 2010 at 10:46 PM
Under Dr. Buss:
Coach : Riley
Style of play: Showtime
Magic, Kobe, Worthy, McAdoo, Shaq.
Note: KAJ was no longer in his prime during the Buss' years.
Coach: Jackson
Style of play: Triangle
Nick van Exel, Kobe, Wilkes, Gasol, Shaq.
Posted by: p ang | August 18, 2010 at 10:43 PM
p ang - Kareem won the finals MVP in 82 and 85 (at age 38). Even those he was at his best in the 70's...he still was a great player the first part of the 80's. FYI...he also dropped 40pt on Samson/Olajuwon twin towers in 86 at the age of 39.
Posted by: LRob | August 18, 2010 at 10:50 PM
erratum:
Under Jackson:
Kareem as center not Shaq. An era '80 KAJ would still be better at the triangle than the MDE.
Posted by: p ang | August 18, 2010 at 10:51 PM
Last post for tonight on the analysis of the Lakers underrated team
C-Andrew Bynum
I know I've been hard on Bynum but going from an analysis point of view he will be very underrated in 30+ years unless some other Shaq or Wilt comes to LA and throws Shaq into the underrated list. Yes at the moment he is cuddled a lot by Gasol and Bryant but Bynum really contributed a ton to the current title teams even though it was limited by injury. He could score, was a very decent shot blocker, good rebounder very workman like. In the end I think the fact he played with a great perimeter player like Kobe and a legendary coach along with a talented roster will knock him and the fact he isn't as talented as Cap or the Diesel was but in 30 years from now he will be probably the most underrated Laker center under Buss.
PF-AC Green
Many people remember AC from 1999-2000 season but during Showtime AC was a great player. Like Bynum he was overshadowed by Kareem/Magic/Worthy and even by Byron and Cooper but AC understood that he wasn't as talented compared to the rest of the Lakers and did everything else that the rest didn't do. He also stayed injury free relatively one reason he was known by 2000 as the Iron man. Again being on the 2000 squad did diminish his game especially to Laker fans who grew up in that time but AC Green was simply a blue collar worker in the shadows of Showtime.
SF-Jamaal Wilkes
Again Jamal was lost in the history of Showtime. Jamaal was a great SF but the Lakers having the first overall pick that become James Worthy really made him disappear amongst Laker fans of Showtime but Jamaal was almost everthing James was except the "Big Game" Monker. Playing alongside Kareem and Magic he was a big force on scoring points and a very dependable 3rd option. James Worthy eventually suceeded him but before James Jamaal was probably the best SF in Buss's era.
SG-Eddie Jones
The Thief was the most famous Laker along with Nick the Quick of the 90's Lakers. Having Jerry West and Kobe Bryant and Byron Scott really made Eddie unknown to new fans but in the time that the Lakers had no true superstar Eddie Jones was there to give Laker fans hope. He wasn't the all around game West was or the scorer that Kobe was or even Byron but Eddie was solid all around. His defense was by far the most underrated as he was able to create steals without gambling himself out of position. Because he played his best Laker years in the 90's he was sent to the 2nd All-Defensive team because of a guy named Michael Jordan. When he was traded for Glen Rice many Laker fans still chanted EDDIE! even though that chant would soon be replaced by chants of KOBE! Eddie Jones wasn't as talented as the other 3 was but definitely the most underrated.
PG-Nick Van Exel
The Thief's partner in crime. Nick the Quick had a bad attitude at the end of his Lakers term but he quickly showed that he was better than the level he was drafted at (2nd round no less). Initially was groomed to be Magic's back up when Magic retired the 2nd time he showed that he was very capable of being a quality starter. In fact Nick the Quick was the last one to score the last points in Boston Garden which was in fact a game winner no less. He was very clutch and in that department is forgotten behind Magic's Junior Hook shot or Kobe's game winning shots or Mr. Clutch himself. Nick's bad attitude especially with Fisher/O'Neal/Bryant and then Coach Del Harris doomed his Laker career and was traded to Denver where he averaged good numbers on a lottery team. But PG wise people will remember either Magic Johnson or even Derek Fisher but Nick the Quick was the leader of the 90's Lakers and he along with Happy Hairston will be underrated Lakers PG's.
Posted by: KB Blitz | August 18, 2010 at 10:54 PM
LRob,
All true but Shaq at his best was 1 vote away from being the unanimous MVP. Fred Hickman voted for AI. He could have ran with the Showtime boys, Kareem never did.
Posted by: p ang | August 18, 2010 at 10:56 PM
I'll watch L-Rob still have it on the TiVo. Garnett also did the 4 legs thing in a game in New York. I didn't have that footage because I don't cover the Celtics lol but you can see it on youtube of the commercial 2010 All-Star game.
In any case I have to get some sleep night everyone have work tomorrow.
Posted by: KB Blitz | August 18, 2010 at 10:58 PM
DBDH,
I appreciate your candidness and your reason for your moniker.
As for ranking the best Lakers teams, I would elevate the 2001 team to second place. My reason for that ranking is for what they did in the playoffs. 11-0 and then the backdoor sweep of the Sixers (even PJ states that that run was his most dominant and best executed triangle offense for any of his teams, Bulls included).
The teams that they played through were not slouches. Blazers swept in 3, Kings swept in 4, Spurs swept in 4, and Sixers (after a long layoff--If memory serves me correct, they had 10 days off (or something to that effect)) the backdoor sweep after losing game 1 101-107.
BEST PLAYOFF RECORD IN LEAGUE HISTORY!
If they were playing the schedule the way the league sets it up these days, the Lakers wouldn't have had such a long layoff and they wouldn't have come in a bit rusty.
In today's playoff schedule, the multiple days off are scheduled during the first 4 games of each series, leaving a max of approx. 5 days before the next series starts.
IMHO, the 2001 Lakers would've gone 15-0 if they didn't have such a long layoff before the Finals.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Speaking of Records.
I would much rather see this Laker team set the record for best playoff record in league history over best regular season record.
That is: 16-0 Playoff Wins is Greater than 73+ regular season wins!!!!!!
That, to me, Would Be An Outstanding Swan Song for Phil Jackson!
4 3-Peats, the Best Regular Season Record (I know, Da Bulls) & Best (& UNBEATABLE) Playoff Record In League History--A CLEAN SWEEP!!!!!!
____________________________________________________
GO LAKERS!!!!!! ONE, TWO, THREE-PEAT TO THE SECOND POWER!!!!!!
Posted by: The Triangulator | August 18, 2010 at 11:06 PM
GO LAKERS!!!!!! ONE, TWO, THREE-PEAT TO THE SECOND POWER!!!!!!
Posted by: The Triangulator | August 18, 2010 at 11:06 PM
Repeat the Three-peat?
Posted by: p ang | August 18, 2010 at 11:10 PM
@SHOWTIME, SPEAKING OF THE STATUE:
DR. BUSS, WHERE'S JERRY WEST'S STATUE???
FOR ALL HE'S DONE FOR THIS TEAM, ON AND OFF THE COURT, HE SHOULD HAVE A STATUE!!!
WE NEED TO START A "GIVE JERRY WEST A STATUE--HE'S THE FREAKIN' LOGO DR. BUSS--BANDWAGON!!!!!!
______________________________________________________
GO LAKERS!!!!!! ONE, TWO, THREE-PEAT TO THE SECOND POWER!!!!!!
Posted by: The Triangulator | August 18, 2010 at 11:11 PM
That is: 16-0 Playoff Wins is Greater than 73+ regular season wins!!!!!!
Posted by: The Triangulator | August 18, 2010 at 11:06 PM
Of course, because 16-0 gives a Championship for sure and 73 may give you a heart attack if loose the finals.
Posted by: BreakfastSausage | August 18, 2010 at 11:11 PM
CORRECTION:
"In today's playoff schedule, the multiple days off are scheduled during the first 4 games of each series, leaving a max of approx. 5 days before the next series starts."
IT SHOULD'VE READ "6 DAYS."
_______________________________________________________
GO LAKERS!!!!!! ONE, TWO, THREE-PEAT TO THE SECOND POWER!!!!!!
Posted by: The Triangulator | August 18, 2010 at 11:14 PM
@p ang
THREE-PEAT TO THE SECOND POWER = REPEAT THE THREE-PEAT
THEY HAVE ONE AND THIS WILL BE THEIR SECOND (in L.A.).
Actually, the LAKERS, as a franchise, already have two three-peats (1952,1953,1954; 2000,2001,2002). THIS WILL BE THEIR THIRD!!!
_____________________________________________________
GO LAKERS!!!!!! ONE, TWO, THREE-PEAT TO THE THIRD POWER!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: The Triangulator | August 18, 2010 at 11:19 PM
Are the Bynum butt sniffers at it again? Can y'all give this a rest?
For cryin' out loud!
http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=290604013
KobeMVP888 said: My point about Bynum dominating Dwight Howard in the first quarter of Game 1 of the 2009 NBA Finals was twofold: 1) He did what was asked of him and THEN SOME, especially given his limitations due to injuries and 2) Phil Jackson happens to regard Game 1 of a playoff series as EXTREMELY IMPORTANT, as evidenced by his now undefeated 48-0 record in playoff series when his team has won Game 1. Therefore, the young, determined center did what was asked of him. I could care less what he did in Games 2-5 because the Lakers as a team knew there and then that they could beat the Magic 3 more games.
my response:
Bynum 3-8 for 9 pts. 9 rebounds. 1 blk.
D. HowaRD 1-6 for 12 pts. 15 rebounds. 2 stl, 2 blk
Bynum scored 8 pts in the 1st quarter according to the play-by-play.
Howard scored 3 pts. in the 1st quarter according to the play-by-play.
Your definition of "dominating" is different then mine. I find your
definition of "dominating" to be .... weak.
This is my definition of "dominating":
Kobe Bryant scored 40 pts, 8 rebounds, 8 assists, 2 stl, 2 blks.
Bynum's primary butt licker wrote:
@KOBEMVP… Thanks again for the great posts to critics of Andrew Bynum. You made a great point about how Drew was really unheralded compared to most of the great centers in league history. That once was the rallying cry for the Bynum Bashers who proclaimed that was proof that Drew would never be a franchise center. Now, they’re left with proclaiming him injury prone.
my response: The reason why Bynum was unheralded was because he didn't
go to college and did little to merit anything in high school. If he had not been
mentored by Kareem for 3 years we wouldn't be talking about him at all. It
is actually quite sad that with 3 years of mentoring by one of the greatest of
all time, we got a measly 13/10 in his only full season without injury. His
rebounding has never been as good as that season, which was 2007 I believe.
re: Bynum being a franchise center. It is sad that we have to talk about this.
If anyone dares to post numbers for a "franchise" center, the butt sniffers
will merely say that with this team it's impossible for Bynum to get "franchise"
numbers. They will, of course, ignore that no other center was being mentored
by a center of Kareem's magnitude. They will also ignore that Pau has done
a better job at center than Bynum has.
Since a Bynum butt sniffer wants a rallying cry, allow me to deliver one.
"INDIFFERENCE". All the Bynum ranting in the world won't change that his
number are mediocre while others on the team are blazing like the sun.
The only reason why we're having this conversation is because Jim Buss has
protected him like he's an illegitimate son. If Dwight Howard had been
mentored by Kareem, Bynum would pale into insignificance.
I honestly want Bynum to play well. I'd like to see him notch an all-star.
I'm sick and tired of his minions propagating BS as if it's sweet green from
Nor-Cal. Can we wait for him to become an all-star before we watch the
porn movie starring LakerTom & Andrew Bynum? Please?
Posted by: hobbitmage | August 18, 2010 at 11:45 PM
I'll watch L-Rob still have it on the TiVo. Garnett also did the 4 legs thing in a game in New York. I didn't have that footage because I don't cover the Celtics lol but you can see it on youtube of the commercial 2010 All-Star game.
In any case I have to get some sleep night everyone have work tomorrow.
Posted by: KB Blitz | August 18, 2010 at 10:58 PM
The first time I saw him do it was vs Portland taunting Bayless. It was crazy. I think Mark Jackson was doing the game and called him out. He probably did it other games. Goodnite!
Posted by: LRob | August 18, 2010 at 11:45 PM
All true but Shaq at his best was 1 vote away from being the unanimous MVP. Fred Hickman voted for AI. He could have ran with the Showtime boys, Kareem never did.
Posted by: p ang | August 18, 2010 at 10:56 PM
Very true...Fred Hickman...argggh!
Posted by: LRob | August 18, 2010 at 11:46 PM
Speaking of Records.
I would much rather see this Laker team set the record for best playoff record in league history over best regular season record.
That is: 16-0 Playoff Wins is Greater than 73+ regular season wins!!!!!!
That, to me, Would Be An Outstanding Swan Song for Phil Jackson!
4 3-Peats, the Best Regular Season Record (I know, Da Bulls) & Best (& UNBEATABLE) Playoff Record In League History--A CLEAN SWEEP!!!!!!____________________________________________________
GO LAKERS!!!!!! ONE, TWO, THREE-PEAT TO THE SECOND POWER!!!!!!
Posted by: The Triangulator | August 18, 2010 at 11:06 PM
Speaking of records.....and what ifs...Remember 89 when the Lakers were 11-0 heading into the finals before Byron and then Magic went down. I really believe that team would've had a 3peat also.
Posted by: LRob | August 18, 2010 at 11:49 PM
I wrote a post for my blog regarding the 1992 Dream Team and a 2010 Dream Team that I created. Here is my post: http://pardonmybias.com/1992-dream-team-vs-my-2010-dream-team/
Feel free to comment and voice your own bias
Posted by: Bharath Venkat | August 18, 2010 at 11:56 PM
I wrote a post for my blog regarding people who write posts for their blogs and then try to get clicks by posting them on legitimate blog sites... but then I remembered I don't have a blog, so all that wonderful writing (which if you'd just go to my non-existent blog to read) was wasted. Oh well....
Posted by: 63 Footer | August 19, 2010 at 12:21 AM
Nice exchanges between blitz n kobemvp888... Almost like watchin 2 skilled boxers with similar styles in a classic duel exchanging rounds back and forth... lots of bobbin and weavin mixed in with lots of jabs.. But no knockout here... This ones definitely goin the distance
Looks like you met your match blitz. Not your ordinary run of the mill lakertom clone.. A wily bynum supporter very quick on his feet with some surprising pop.
So back to your corners gentlemen and let's keep it a nice clean fight
Posted by: yellofever | August 19, 2010 at 12:37 AM
Oh and here comes hobbit out of nowhere... Looks like its a tag team battle now.. Wait where's lakertom?
Posted by: yellofever | August 19, 2010 at 12:47 AM
It's 3:24 in the morning... do you know where your meds are?
Posted by: 63 Footer | August 19, 2010 at 03:23 AM
Mic check
Posted by: Joe_Corad | August 19, 2010 at 03:48 AM
Phil Jackson as a coach has the best regular season ever in the NBA (the Chicago Bulls 72-10), and he also has the best playoff record ever (the Lakers 15-1). The diference is he accomplished that feat with seperate teams. Why not have him go into retirement surpassing both records with the same team, The LA Laker roster of 2010-2011.
Posted by: Joe_Corad | August 19, 2010 at 03:48 AM
Since the Magic championship didn't count, we're really actually going for the 2nd title next season (on paper it'll say 3 but it's really 2 in a row when we look at it). 2 titles baby! Bring it.
That's the mindset that we and they should all have to not lose a step and they play excellent all season, not a glitch.
Posted by: PointForward | August 19, 2010 at 06:24 AM
PointForward: "Since the Magic championship didn't count..."
Heck, if you ask the trolls, NONE of our championships counted. They always have some excuse.
Posted by: 63 Footer | August 19, 2010 at 06:31 AM
Nice exchanges between blitz n kobemvp888... Almost like watchin 2 skilled boxers with similar styles in a classic duel exchanging rounds back and forth... lots of bobbin and weavin mixed in with lots of jabs.. But no knockout here... This ones definitely goin the distance
Looks like you met your match blitz. Not your ordinary run of the mill lakertom clone.. A wily bynum supporter very quick on his feet with some surprising pop.
So back to your corners gentlemen and let's keep it a nice clean fight
Posted by: yellofever | August 19, 2010 at 12:37 AM
Good stuff...looks like their battling under old school rules with bare knuckles and unlimited rounds.
Posted by: LRob | August 19, 2010 at 06:33 AM
Good Morning Laker Nation,
63 Footer...more films have started to be shot in Detroit/Mich due to tax breaks. Have you heard anything on this?
PointForward - Piston fans still whine about the 88 championship and the ahem "phantom" foul on Laimbeer. Of course, they conveniently overlook the hack on Worthy a few possessions earlier that wasn't called.
Posted by: LRob | August 19, 2010 at 06:38 AM
Van Gundy at it again:
Adrian Wojnarowski: Just caught up with Jeff Van Gundy, who keeps raising stakes on Miami. JVG says that he "wouldn't be surprised" if Heat go unbeaten at home. Twitter
--------
Like I said before I think JVG is just trying to create extra pressure on Miami to help his lil bro. He doesn't believe any of that 72 game/33 in a row/or undefeated at home stuff.
Posted by: LRob | August 19, 2010 at 06:41 AM
Blitz/kobemvp,
After reading through all the back and forth, I am kinda losing track here of the main point of the debate.
As often happens when these kinda things drag out, the original point, or main point, gets lost.
Could you both state your case, or your main point, in one very short paragraph?
Or not.
I am just curious how you would sum it up.
Posted by: Art - FL Lakers Fan | August 19, 2010 at 06:47 AM
Yellowfever,
I like the analysis. I'm guessing that LakerTom will remain in hiding.
He hides better than hobbits do.
LRob,
I don't think KobeMVP888's arguments are worth their weight in
cow manure. Let's see if he/she brings any objective information
to support his/her arguments.
However, why don't we all talk about something less polarizing like ...
We're finally out of Iraq. woo-hoo.
Posted by: hobbitmage | August 19, 2010 at 06:50 AM
JVG says Heat may go undefeated at home?
Has that ever happened?
I think once Boston went 41-1, but not positive about that.
I see now Caron Butler of the Mavs has jumped on the Heat wagon, says Heat will win 73 games.
Isn't it weird that a player on an opposing team would do something like that?
Nobody told me there'd be days like these. Strange days indeed.
Posted by: Art - FL Lakers Fan | August 19, 2010 at 06:51 AM
Chop...chop...let's go people. I'm feeling good this morning and you will to after watching this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgDrJ5Z2rKw
Posted by: LRob | August 19, 2010 at 06:52 AM
Ricky will be unhappy about this:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5475298
PORTLAND, Ore. -- The agent for Rudy Fernandez says the Portland Trail Blazers swingman does not want to return to the NBA.
Agent Andy Miller told several media outlets that Fernandez wants to play in Europe and is willing to sit out for the next two seasons, the time left on his contract with the Blazers.
Blazers general manager Rich Cho says the team has looked at several possible deals involving the Spaniard, but none of them has made sense for Portland.
Fernandez, a fan favorite, has been unhappy about his playing time. Known for his 3-point shot and energy off the bench, he averaged 8.1 points, 2.6 rebounds and two assists last season but missed 20 games with injuries.
Posted by: hobbitmage | August 19, 2010 at 06:52 AM
on the LBJ thing ...
I would love it if the Cavs deck LBJ on the first game and the fans roar
their approval.
Posted by: hobbitmage | August 19, 2010 at 06:55 AM