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Keeping Shannon Brown would be a good move for the Lakers

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Throughout the free-agency period, it appeared Shannon Brown's future with the Lakers swung like a pendulum.

That wasn't because the Lakers had mixed feelings about what Brown could bring to the team. The organization equally has valued his athleticism, upside, attitude, and of course, dunks, and believe the aforementioned qualities trump the defensive lapses and inconsistency in offensive execution. It was just that Brown's future hinged on plenty of variables beyond his control, including whether Derek Fisher would return to the team and for how much, whether the Lakers could attract a free-agent guard and who else might leave the team..

Well, the picture appears a little bit clearer now. Fisher re-signed with the team, agreeing to a three-year deal worth about $10.5 million. The Lakers signed former Clipper guard Steve Blake to a four-year, $16-million deal, and he presumably will serve as Fisher's backup. The Lakers' efforts to acquire free-agent guard Raja Bell ended with Bell canceling a dinner meeting with Kobe Bryant. And Jordan Farmar left the Lakers and accepted a three-year, $12-million offer to play for the New Jersey Nets.

That doesn't mean Brown will definitely be on the 2010-2011 roster, but the offseason developments at least help his chances. The Times' Broderick Turner reported the Lakers and Brown are still in negotiations after he opted out of the final year of his contract that would've paid him $2.1 million. Brown's agent, Mark Bartelstein, told Turner that "hopefully in the next few days we'll get something done."

For both the sake of the Lakers and Brown, it would be in their interest that Brown remains on the team. Despite opting out of his contract, the move reflected Brown's hope to test the open market and reach a long-term deal after spending his first four seasons in the NBA with four different teams. I recently criticized Bell's decision to join the Jazz, and even some Lakers fans disagreed with my assessment that his option to go for a more expensive and longer deal seemed misguided because he has the best chance to win an NBA title with the Lakers. I don't have the same opinion toward Brown's decision simply because Brown is at the beginning of his career and it'd be unclear if one more year would significantly bolster his development enough to spur the Lakers into keeping him for the long term. Meanwhile, Bell is already developed and surely could've extended his stay a season or two with the Lakers if he helped the team to another title. Nonetheless, Brown made it clear during his exit interview that he'd love to stay with the Lakers because of the talent around him.

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The Lakers, meanwhile, have seen Brown grow tremendously since acquiring him last season, along with Adam Morrison, from Charlotte for Vladimir Radmanovic. Since then, Brown has become a fan favorite for his acrobatic dunks, with the website LetShannonDunk.com documenting them, and impressing the Lakers enough to sign him to a two-year, $4.2-million contract before last season began. When Brown was selected for the NBA Dunk Contest, Bryant and Brown agreed that the honor points to the hard work he's put in since joining the team.

Still, as much as Brown reveled in the attention his serious hang time generates, he's never wanted to be pigeonholed as a dunker. One needs to look no further than how his disappointing performance in the dunk contest preceded a dip in numbers after the All-Star break. After 10 points per game on 40.2% shooting in February, Brown's numbers went down to 7.3 points per game on a 38.5% clip before rebounding to an 11.3 points per game average in April. Nonetheless, Brown's averages in the 2008-09 and 2009-10 seasons (3.2 points in 7.6 minutes per game, 8.1 points in 20.7 minutes per game) clearly show that Brown's on the right track.

Even though Brown hasn't completely mastered the offense and frequently gets beat on defensive rotations, those lapses point more to his development than any effort problems. And thanks to Brown's willingness to put in the work needed to fix those problems, the Lakers' decision to keep him would serve as a logical choice to help their long-term future.

-- Mark Medina

Follow the L.A. Times Lakers blog on Twitter: twitter.com/latmedina. E-mail the Lakers blog at [email protected]

Photo: Shannon Brown. Credit: Wally Skalij / Los Angeles Times.

Photo: Brown soon became a fan favorite because of his high-flying dunks. Credit: Luis Sinco/Los Angeles Times

 
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WRT to the Raja Bell issue.

Some people here were saying that the Lakers could only pay him something like 5 million while the Jazz offered him 10 million.

What didn't get said is exactly what the Lakers offered him. They might have only offered him a 1 year contract.

So what if the choice was 10 million vs 1.7 million?

The comparison that people were making was assuming the most generous possible offer by the Lakers. But the Lakers offers this offseason have been far from generous. Blake's deal is just about spot on. Assuming he stays healthy and produces about like he has in the past, he won't be underpaid or overpaid. But the other offers they've made, even to beloved Derek Fisher, have been low offers. I'll wager Raja Bell wasn't given the most they could possibly offer.

Just something to think about.

While 5 million and a ring vs 10 million is one consideration, 1.7 million and a ring vs 10 million is a whole nother thing.

Agree, MM.
BRING SHANNON BACK!
Cheers.

I find it difficult to not like Shannon Brown.


Great attitude, gifted, seems like a good kid, occasionally shows up big time.


What do we play for? RINGS!!!


Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.


GO LAKERS!!!

Wade = Dumars
Lakers in 5

"hopefully in the next few days we'll get something done."

~~ If there is any better player we can get right now, it is only SB because our remaining money is only 1.3M on MLE and no good player wants it. Brown can be re-signed above his 2.1M opt out tho' I think he'd agree between 3-3.5M annually for three years.

As a player, we often forgot Brown guarded Billups last year and was hero in WCF in '08. Brown was able to subbed for Artest when he got in foul trouble in this Finals. He was assigned against Green in the Thunder series, subbed Fisher on DWill assignments in Utah, against Barbosa in Suns and Ray Allen in the Finals. He was not perfect against RA, who was? His upsides are more than his downsides, unfortunately the Farmar fans would not agree with his re-signing. Brown's ability is being dragged down by his teammates in the second unit which are: Farmar, Lamar and others Brown becomes part of the problem. In this unit, there are no shooters but all passers waiting for time expiration. They were known to be 2nd unit t/o's and by the time 5 minutes is over, the lead has disappeared.

In the talk shows, I have seen him on Jimmy Kimmel 2x, I think this kid is humble enough, funnier and accept his role with the Lakers. While Farmar frowns in last year show, Browns smiles as they made fun of his eating habits.


If he is signed, I hope PJ will give him more playing time than Fisher. Fisher has to be rested and reserve his energy for the playoffs. I wish UPS could be selfish a little bit like Artest this season and show his ability in going to the hoop even if he defies a pass to Kobe or to the twin towers. That is the concept of the triangle, the unguarded player should make those shot either from the outside or from the inside. Play Brown, Blake, Kobe, Artest and Bynum in the 2nd unit, it will be a great improvement both in offense and defense compared to last year.

Lastly, Brown is our player that brought us Championship. TMac or Raja never dreamed to be Lakers. Brown wanted to be a Laker or else he could have moved to Jazz or Bulls offer. Lakers got Raja and reserve JCritt as reported by Hoopsworld only as an insurance in case SB leaves the Lakers. While Brown wanted a bigger salary than 2.1M and reserve Jazz and Bulls in case Lakers take Bell.

On top of Brown, we need an insurance in the Center in case one of them is injured. Mbenga is OK whom we already know tho this kid, Samhan is much cheaper and a shooter. Villanova could not stop him during the recent NCAA tournament and took the Gaels to sweet 16 for the first time.

>>>I actually feel bad for Lakers fans because even though they are the
>>>defending champs it feels like the Heat are the ones coming off back to back
>>>titles.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

OMG. I'm glad I wasn't drinking milk, as I'm sure I would have just snorted it through my nose.

I guess that's how a Miami fan would feel. Getting 3 star players is the equivalent of winnint two titles to them.

Sorta like how Phoenix hangs Division Championship banners.

Thing is, we Laker fans know the difference between getting a good player and winning a championship.

So go ahead and hang your "WE HAD THE BEST RECRUITING SEASON IN 2010" from the rafters of your arena. Enjoy it. Live it up.

SCORE BOARD...We have a "hand down, man down" Bell Suburban out with flat tires...I don't know if the TMac Suburban is still rolling, I haven't seen much the last few days...But it looks like the ShanWOW Suburban is picking up some momentum...

Mitch Sign T-Mac Suburban

====------ === ------===
/_____l______l__ ___\____
ll- - -SIGN Tracy McGrady ------]
L___(0)l______l__ ____l(0) J

LAL818 – OWNER
ENJOY THE RIDE – DRIVER
MAMBA24 – RIDING SHOTGUN
# 4
LAKERLASS - RDING SHOTGUN2
MARI. G. - MOST BEAUTIFUL BEING IN CREATION
2PHATT – SECURITY
TIM-4-SHOW – SGT. AT ARMS
LONGTIMELAKERFAN – ACTING –SHERIFF
BHARATH VENKAT – DEPUTY SHERIFF
JON-K UNDERCOVER AGENT – LOS ANGELES DIV
RAIDERLAKER1980 - RAIDERS - DIV
PURPLE HEART - MEDAL OF HONOR WINNER
D(EREK) J(ETER)- NEW YORK DIV.
I BLEED PURPLE & GOLD - BLOOD DIRECTOR
FERDINAND MUTUC - EASTERN DIV.
JEFF - BALLOT CHIEF
PACKER - GREEN BAY DIV.
HAWAII D - 5-O DIV.
TOBY
HOBBITMAGE - ANY DIV. HE WANTS
RUI GUERRA
KEIFO
WESJOENIXON
BRONXLAKERFAN – BRONX DIV.
SANTA ROSA LAKER
LAKERSRYDEORDIE – CAPITAL PUNISHMENT
DANO
ALFREEZY24(SHERIFF WOODY)
SEGEBOY - THE SHERIFF
enjoy the game
Tim-4-Show
htj
Nemaia Faletogo
raiderlaker1980
NewMexicoLakerLifer
Mike in stanford

=======================

NO to signing TMac Suburban

====-----
- === ------===
/_____l______l__ ___\____
ll- - -NO on Tracy McGrady ------]
L___(0)l______l__ ____l(0) J

Puddle
Yellowfever
Rick Friedman
The Outlaw
purpngld4eva
Don't Blame Del Harris!
SamLL
PnG2x3
justanothermambafan
LEWSTRS
LakerMike
Jay Jay
Magic Phil
Bob Dylan
longtimelakerlover

=======================

Mitch Sign Raja Bell Suburban (flat tires...ride over)

====------ === ------===
/_____l______l__ ___\____
ll- - - Mitch Sign Raja Bell -------]
L___(X)l______l__ ____l(X) J

Kobe Bryant
NewMexicoLakerLifer
D(erek)J(eter)
LAKER TRUTH
yellofever
Tom Daniels
Staples 24
justanothermambafan
Magic Phil
raiderlaker1980
Bobhoops
Rick Friedman
iheartkb24
Fatty
Hogan
leonardbast

======================-

Bring Back Shannon Suburban

====------ === ------===
/_____l______l__ ___\____
ll- - - Bring Back ShanWOW-------]
L___(0)l______l__ ____l(0) J

Purple & Gold Reign
Jamie Sweet
hopalong
Double B
Magic Phil
justanothermambafan
LEWSTRS
Mark Medina

>>>No matter how wrong you think I am, one of you actually compared Wade to
>>>Dumars and weren't joking.

Joe Dumars has 2 championships. He was the second best player on his team, admittedly, but he was on a deeper team than Wade's ever been on, so he didn't need to dominate the way Wade needs to. And Dumars was a FAR superior defender to Wade.

When Wade gets his second ring, then I'll call him better than Dumars. Until that happens, you betta recognize.

Wade < Dumars.
Lakers in 5.

>>>Miami fans can be dycks but would NEVER be as asanine to call Kobe Mitch
>>>Richmond or Allan Houston

Kobe has 5 rings, two as the clear leader of his team and 3 as the second best player on his team.

Mitch Richmond and Allan Houston have one ring between them. And Richmond got it by riding on Kobe's coattails.

Maybe nobody has ever explained this to you.

The goal of the game of basketball is to win. It's not to be the guy who scores the most points. It's not to be the guy who shows off for the crowd before the game (like LeBron) or to hop up on the table and shout "This is MY HOUSE" (like Wade). It's to win games.

And to string enough wins together to win championships.

Generally, the players that win multiple championships, it's because they have several good players who all reduce their own stats to maximize the performance of the whole group.

Dumars knew that.

Garnett & Allen & Pierce embraced it in 2008.

Wade hasn't quite got there yet.

When his stats drop by about 20% (along with LeBron's and Bosh's) and they earn a couple of rings as a team, then you can say Wade is better than Dumars.

It's that simple.

Dumars is in the hall of fame.

Wade isn't, yet. I think he'll get there, but he isn't yet.

Shannon would do well for his future to strike a deal. The Lakers hands are obviously tied by the contracts of Kobe, Bynum and Gasol.

It is what it is and the Lakers obviously have the right chemistry to win it all ... or why are we talking 3peat?

Shannon could develop into a guy who gets a great contract when Kobe, Fish et al. finish theirs up.

For our new 'Heat' fan, take a look at what happened to the 1977 76ers with one of the most talent laden teams ever. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1977_NBA_Finals

You're confusing the 'parts' with the 'whole.' I'm not saying LeBron and Wade can't figure out how to share the ball, I'm just saying it hasn't happened and we don't know if it will.

You're giddiness is like the guy that bought the best BMW engine, the best Mercedes chassis and the best Honda transmission and couldn't figure out why his car wasn't the best ever! The parts have got to fit.

MM -

Laker Girls Suggested Questions...

1. Was it a dream come true becoming a Laker Girl...
2. Where are you from and who was your favorite team...
3. If you could get away with it, which Laker player would you date...
4. What career will you pursue after being a Laker Girl...Acting, Dancing, or do you want Lisa Estrada's job...

LongTimeLakersFan,


"So go ahead and hang your "WE HAD THE BEST RECRUITING SEASON IN 2010" from the rafters of your arena. Enjoy it. Live it up."


I know.


Fricken new money.


This guy doesn't know that we're not scared in the slightest. I don't want to just beat the Heat now. I want to break their bones and have them hear the sounds of their bones breaking as they're dying.


That's how badly I want us to beat LeCreep and these pretenders.


What do we play for? RINGS!!!


Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.


GO LAKERS!!!

Regarding Raja Bell - I agreed with his decision to take the more lucrative contract. Actually - I prefer Shannon anyway because I think the Lakers...being in the entertainment capital of the world...should always have at least one high flying, showman.

Anyway, Kobe agreed he should take the $$. See link below. Of course Kobe would be pretty hypocritical to tell Raja to take less money while he's getting the max. I also don't blame Kobe. He deserved the max.

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/sports/49942445-77/bell-jazz-championship-really.html.csp

"Kobe has 5 rings, two as the clear leader of his team and 3 as the second best player on his team."

I'd have to disagree. There was only one year in which Kobe was clearly only the second best player on the team, and that was 2000, when Shaq was the regular season MVP. In the next two years, Kobe was just as good as, if not better than, Shaq. Sure, Shaq won the Finals MVP for those two years, but you look at the regular season and playoffs as a whole, Kobe was the one who really carried the team when it mattered. I recall Shaq even calling Kobe the best basketball player in the world during the 2001 playoffs.

someone complaining about how the Lakers are treating Shannon, the guy whose career was saved by the Lakers, the guy who OPTED OUT ON HIS OWN?


i think they should resign him, but really, he hasn't been dealt with unfairly at all.

"Kobe has 5 rings, two as the clear leader of his team and 3 as the second best player on his team."

I'd have to disagree. There was only one year in which Kobe was clearly only the second best player on the team, and that was 2000, when Shaq was the regular season MVP. In the next two years, Kobe was just as good as, if not better than, Shaq. Sure, Shaq won the Finals MVP for those two years, but you look at the regular season and playoffs as a whole, Kobe was the one who really carried the team when it mattered. I recall Shaq even calling Kobe the best basketball player in the world during the 2001 playoffs.

Posted by: EJK | July 16, 2010 at 05:50 PM
I agree 100%

Oooooh. This is a good one, people! LBJ's right hand man and a key decision maker in "The Decision" is now the subject of a police investigation.

http://bit.ly/chU9eO

Me thinks David Stern needs his NBA investigators to carefully examine whatever arrangements Pat Riley made to accommodate LBJ's posse as part of the deal to bring James to Miami.

Jon K- How do you really feel, regarding the Heat.

Do you know who Walter A. Brown is...and where is the trophy now...

EJK,

>>> In the next two years, Kobe was just as good as, if not better than, Shaq.

Fair enough.

I was trying to give the least favorable opinion of Kobe, which still shows how ludicrous it is to compare Kobe to much lesser players.

If in 2001 you'd have compared Kobe to Dumars, I'd have said, welllll, he's not quite that good yet.

There's a difference between having the potential to be one of the all-time greats and being one of the all-time greats. Dumars is already an all-time great. Wade isn't.

Heat making better moves than even the "Bib 3 first year Celtics". Outflanked Mitch with Mike Miller acquisition. To counter that and win home court advantage Lakers must sign a good perimeter defender like Barnes/Rasul Butler for the 13 th slot even if SB comes back. A Bynum backup is needed for insurance and that could be Mbenga/Samhan/Thomas for the 14 th slot, assuming Ebanks & Caracter are on the roster. SB & Mbenga will not affect salary cap if Barnes/Rasul/T-Mac can be signed for $1.8 million or $2.5 million with some sign and trade deal before signing SB & DJ. SB would have been better off testing the waters after getting another ring and in a year with a poorer FA crop!!

If you're a fan of Thriller, here's another good read: My day in Queensbridge with Ron Artest

http://bit.ly/a1HoXa

A true man of the people. So very glad he's a Laker.

@EJK and 'intelligent' Laker and NBA fans!

Here's Shaq's playoff record with the Magic:

1996 -- defeated Detroit, 3-0, first round
defeated Atlanta, 4-1, conference semifinals
lost to Chicago, 4-0, conference finals

1995 -- defeated Boston, 3-1, first round
defeated Chicago, 4-2, conference semifinals
defeated Indiana, 4-3, conference finals
lost to Houston, 4-0, NBA Finals

1994 -- lost to Indiana, 3-0, first round

Notice a pattern in the 'highest' playoff round reached with the MDE (most deluded ever)?

As I will continue to say till the day I die ... or someone proves otherwise ... the only playoff winning game Shaq ever made as a Laker was on a lob from Kobe.

LTLF


I got it! You are saying, the stats shows Mo, Shaq and Parker are better offensive teammates that can win in Cleveland than Bosh, Wade and Miller in Miami.


"Let's just point out the hypocracy of your argument."


Ah! Huh. Wade compared to Williams? who?


Aging Shaq to BOSh' prime. Wow!

It is the FINALS, not stats of regular season, that is most important, isn't it? MO WILLIAMS in Finals 07 (choke) vs D WADE FINALS IN 06 (MVP)..


One reason why Lakers delayed in re-signing SB because they don't know his real value. However, he remained a restricted agent therefore has the intentions of matching any offer. Then came Raja's, Barnes etc well, Lakers have to place safe that they can fill in the missing pieces. I think SB is being respected by giving an option a players opt out on BiA. Normally, there is no players option here just take it or leave.

Lakers helped Brown in his career as a journeyman or a filler in the trade of Vlade but SB also helped the Lakers in their 1st Championship. We often ignored he was also injured on his palm in dunking during the late season but was able to carry the team when Kobe, Bynum were out at the end of the season. He was also instrumental in filling in Kobe's shoes in those 4 games before the the ASG. Brown's ratings went down after he lost the dunking contest, everybody in the Laker nation were expecting a better show, he was a poor decision maker in showmanship at the real show.

LEWSTRS-

I'm on board the UPS bandwagon. T-Mac, not so much. He's already caused way too much drama in our lives.

>>>I got it! You are saying, the stats shows Mo, Shaq and Parker are better
>>>offensive teammates that can win in Cleveland than Bosh, Wade and Miller
>>>in Miami.

No. Not quite.

What I said is that your argument that LeBron has better shooters around him in Miami than he had in Cleveland is wrong. He had plenty of shooters around him in Cleveland. He just didn't trust them enough to let them succeed. If he had passed the ball more, then Mo Williams, Shaq, Anthony Parker, Varejao and everyone else on the Cavs would have had higher scoring averages, and LeBron would have had double digit assists.

Do you think LeBron would EVER settle for having 11 rebounds a game and scoring less than Mo Williams and Shaquille?

Magic did that sorta thing almost every year he played. And it's not like Magic couldn't shoot. Magic hit >50% of his shots for his whole career.

To be honest, I think LeBron will continue to shoot 20 times a game and will continue to get about 8 assists per game.

If LeBron wants to be like Magic, then he needs to take 14 or 15 shots a game and let Wade and Bosh be the two leading scorers on Miami. MAYBE he can do that. Maybe not.

Aloha MM,

Enjoyed the article. Just one point. One could make the argument that Brown's shooting numbers went down right around the time he injured his shooting hand.

Aloha

MH

I GUARANTEE SHANNON'S GAME WILL REACH NEW HEIGHTS PLAYING ALONGSIDE BLAKE AND WITHOUT SMUSH FARMAR

Edwin - Shanon is unrestricted. He can sign anywhere he chooses.

The only restriction is that he knows every place else sucks after playing for the Lakers.

all i know is that Miami's located in America's wang. maybe that's why all d__k riders go there.

>>>"Let's just point out the hypocracy of your argument."
>>>Ah! Huh. Wade compared to Williams? who?

You said (and I quote) "If he plays ROBIN, feeding WADE, BOSH and MILLER, not Delonte and Varegao and Boobie Gibson"

I would say that it's hypocritcal to compare LeBron's 3 best teammates on Miami to 3 less prominent teammates on Cleveland. To make a FAIR comparison, you should compare Wade to Williams (his best wing teammate), Bosh to Shaq (his best post teammate), and Miller (a role player who shoots 3's) to Parker (a role player who shoots 3's).

When you line up the comparisons that way, his Cleveland teammates were just as effective at scoring (when someone would give them the ball) as Wade and Bosh and Miller. The difference is, someone WASN'T giving Williams and Shaq and Parker the ball, because he wanted to take most of the shots himself.

And that's actually fine. Kobe's a shoot first scorer as well and he's done very well leading his team in that way.

But when someone here compared LeBron to Magic Johnson, it's a comparison that doesn't work. Much as people promote him as unselfish and giving, LeBron is a complete ball hog compared to Magic.

Actually, hypocritical is the wrong word. Maybe misleading or disingenuous.

Sorry for calling you a hypocrit.

With a handle of "Staples 24" we would assume that you were a Laker fan but from a lot of your most recent posts I think that that assumption is in error...

We would be better off grouping you with the trolls and "fakers" like DFish & ricky, what with all the Heat @$$ you've been kissing.

>>>It is the FINALS, not stats of regular season, that is most important, isn't it?
>>>MO WILLIAMS in Finals 07 (choke) vs D WADE FINALS IN 06 (MVP)..

Okay, but now you're taking the discussion somewhere totally different.

I never said that Mo Williams is better than Dwyane Wade.

What I said is basically that if LeBron passed to Williams and Wade the exact same number of times, Williams would score more points (based on their performances of last season only).

What you initially claimed is that LeBron's assists would go way up with him passing to Wade instead of Williams and Bosh instead of Shaq. THAT was the claim that I was disputing. They will only go up if LeBron PASSES MORE and SHOOTS LESS. And the same would be the case regardless of whether it was in Cleveland or in Miami.

LeBron took 20 shots a game in Cleveland. If he takes 20 shots a game in Miami, I'll wager he'll still get about 8 assists per game.

If he had taken 13 shots a game in Cleveland, then MAYBE he could have gotten 11 assists per game like Magic used to. And maybe he'd be wearing his first championship ring right now. Or maybe not.

If Luke is out again next season, Sasha and Shannon should have enough minutes to split between them to keep both of them relatively happy. I see Sasha playing some backup SF to give Ron a breather.

I'd like to see the Lakers close out the offseason by signing Oberto, a guy who can contribute and give Pau and Drew more rest during the regular season.

The real question is whose better for thre Lakers as back SG?


Shannon Brown is only needed because Sasha is not doing his job well enough for the Lakers. Otherwise, Bell, Brown the 5th guard would be irrelevant bench warmer.


Besides, STEVE BLAKE can do more than Farmar, BLAKER can play the SG.


I understand Blake is the Back up PG. But at the same time he is a better SG than Sasha and Brown. If Fisher plays 30 mins a game, Blake will find his minutes at SG.


Should Blake be the back up for both PG AND SG so he can get atleast 30 mins? Why would you sit him in the bench if he is your 3rd or 2nd best guard by far?


If Sahsa can't find his minutes, where will Brown find his?


Borwn found his minutes because FARMAR can not guard the big PGs, that is not going to be the case with Blake.


I get caught up in this too much.

Someone will say something like (and I'll use an example that nobody here has said)

"Gilbert Arenas is a better shooter than Jordan Farmar."

And I'll point out:

"Well, actually Farmar has a career shooting % of 43%, while Arenas has only shot 42%", and they both have hit about 36% of their 3-pointers for their career. So technically, they're pretty close, but Jordan is a slightly more efficient shooter."

And then the original poster (or someone who doesn't favor Farmar) will post.

"I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU SAID FARMAR IS BETTER THAN GILBERT ARENAS. ARE YOU STUPID?"

----

Okay, so maybe I exaggerated the caps.

The point is, in most of my critical reposnses, I'm usually talking about a specific point that the blogger has made that isn't totally correct.

And yes, as much as you don't want to believe it, Luke has gotten more rebounds per minute he's on the floor in his career than Ron Artest, and has a higher career shooting percentage than Ron Artest. These are facts. Yes, Ron has scored a lot more points and gotten a lot more rebounds, but that's because he's played a lot more minutes.

No, that doesn't mean I think Luke is better than Ron Artest. It also doesn't make me some delusional Luke apologist who will defend Luke to the ends of the earth. I'm merely pointing out that in two specific measurable statistics, Luke has outperformed Artest over their respective careers.

What it means is that I recognize the small contributions that even the worst Lakers make. I'm not putting down Artest, I'm pointing out that Luke ALSO does some things well when given the chance.

-----

This latest thing wasn't even a Laker thing - it was a LeBron's teammates thing. And I showed a statistical reason why if LeBron had passed more in Cleveland, his assists would have gone up about the same amount as if he passed more in Miami. But then the blogger wants to turn it into "LTLF thinks that Mo Williams is better than Dwyane Wade".

Try actually reading what I post and don't try to extrapolate it into more than what I claim.

LTLF
Good points.. U are a great asset to this blog when ur posts are non luke related

Jonk
Not all rap music is gangsta rap.. Rap also revolutionized todays hip hop.. And there are many other rap genres just like there are many other rock genres. Cheer up its friday

Lewsters
Pls add me on the shannon suburban.

Nice weekend to all!

*I like Shannon Brown, he's definitely been useful. It's surprising that he opted out to make more money, because he really isn't worth more than his 2 mil. But I'd like to see him back, especially now that Raja Bell is out of the mix.

*It's fun to see Miami fans come on here trying to talk smack. I think their focus is in the wrong place though. First things first for the Heat, they have to beat the Celtics.

*I'm happy that the Celtics and Heat are going to match up. They will beat the crap out of each other just in time for one of them to face a fresh Laker squad ready to send coach Phil Jackson riding off into the sunset. It will be nice and sweet. A 3 peat.

Go Lakers!

I think we have a winner for POTD

>>>Miami's located in America's wang.

Nice post MM,

I too like Shannon and hope that he is re-signed. I like his overall attitude and work ethic. I think he definitely has to improve on the defensive end and work on becoming more of a slasher on O and getting in the paint to score(try using the glass a little more Shannon) :) or setting up the bigs more. Overall, I like the young man and hope to see him back with the team for next season.


BTW MM,

Please let us know when Drew is scheduled to get that surgery. As much as any other player on the team, I'm hoping he comes back strong from the injury and remains healthy for the entire season AND especially the post season.


Let's go Ls...all the way to a 3-peat!!!


yellowfever,


"Not all rap music is gangsta rap.. Rap also revolutionized todays hip hop.."


True, but 95% of it is non-stop narcissistic boasting about:


1) I got money.


2) I got women.


3) I'm badder than you.


4) I party VIP style.


That's it.


SO dreadfully shallow and annoying. It's like meeting someone and all they want to talk about is themselves.


As a genre the music is garbage and it teaches totally the wrong lessons to people without proper mentoring.


I'm still shocked that people defend it. I've been in the trenches and nothing about that lifestyle is anything anyone of self-respect and maturity would EVER want to be a part of.


Period.


People who really defend it just don't know.


There may be good tracks out there, sure. There are talented artists out there who are positive, sure. But as a genre? Give me a fricken break. Most of these "artists" are just idiots trying to make a quick dollar. They're not "artists", they're parasites.


I don't see people as quick to defend polka. There's good polka out there, sure. But I can say with utter confidence that polka sucks.


The only difference is that polka is harmless and rap is caustic.


What do we play for? RINGS!!!


Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.


GO LAKERS!!!

>>>Dude Wade had the single best Finals series in basketball history. He was
>>>busy running circles around all 5 players on the court who couldn't stop him
>>>even thou...

LOL.

If the refs called the 2006 series like they called the 2010 series, then Dwyane Wade would still be ringless and Kobe would have taken 30 free throws per game in 2010.

In that finals, the refs were calling the slightest touch of Wade as a foul. If you breathed on him too heavy, it was a foul.

In 2010, the Celtics usually rode Kobe like a horse. But he rarely got a call.

I mean seriously, 25 foul shots? 21 foul shots? 18 foul shots? That's three games that were a total gift from the refs.

And if in 2011 the refs allow the teams to play, like they did in most of the 2010 finals, then Wade won't be getting any 25 free throw games. They'll just call the shots that he doesn't make misses, even if someone was touching him when he missed it.

With Steve running the point Shannon's game will change naturally. I remember how Trevor changed his when he used to start and he had to learn how to read the offense with DFish. Shannon has so much upside you can't just give up on him. That being said, I think we will see sometime within the next week 1/2-2 weeks whether other team wants to give him like 3.5 -4 M/Y if somebody else steps their pursuit. Then you have to decide on the other 2 spots Kwame Brown/Kurt Thomas or somebody else at C then Roger Mason/Shannon "ex-Farmar-now-Blake" Brown., etc.

P.S. Add me to the bring s.B. back suburban lew.

>>>By your logic Horry must be better than Kobe because he has more rings

Horry was a role player. Kobe was the best or second best player on every championship team he ever played on.

As was Dumars.

Where did Brandon Jennings get those sunglasses? He looked like he just had cataract surgery!

Posted by: bronxlakerfan | July 15, 2010 at 05:38 PM

~~~~~
Hey Bronx,

after reading that, I went back and looked at the photo of Brandon, and laughed so hard to the point of tears, and almost couldn't stop. Then I got startled by the earthquake(only 3.6 on the richter scale) at around 5:00 am this morning. I'm sure you west coaster's are prob chuckling at that but, in DC earthquakes are fairly rare occurences.(LOL)

Let's go Ls...all the way to a 3-peat!!!

LTLF,

Comparing the statics of RPG of Luke vs. Artest now PPG on Farmar vs. Arenas, there is so much absurdities in your statistical methodology. Where did you learn your statistics?

First, Starter have more minutes played vs. a reliever who plays only 3 to 5 minutes

Second, No sane NBA fan will compare the players you mentioned because it is a Persimmon and Orange fruits.

Example: two attempt, one made = 50%
ten attempts, four made = 40%
do u mean to tell me the 50% player was better than the 40% player?

"The kids will riot!" Reverend Robert Samuel

"They are degenerates and a bad influence on the children of today." Russell Malchard, London Times

"They sing about anti-American topics and are completely godless." Joseph Fredricks, Chicago Tribune.

"They sing about free love and the devil," Jill Sherman, "The Life and Times"

Rap? Nope - those were all quotes about the Beatles. Keep on mixing up art's influence on society, rather than art mirroring society. Maybe you can get rap banned.

I think keeping Shannon Brown is the best move the Lakers could make. Better then trying to get Raja Bell, who just missed an entire season to an injury. Brown is athletic, which they really need, and still young.

Is Garret Kall real, or just a caricature of a pathetic miami fan? He must have got kicked off the blog in his hometown, since he seems to spend all his time on this one. I really hope all miami fans are not like him, or maybe I do. It would be fun to hear their comments after the heat don't even make it to the finals.

The only reason MeBron got 8 assists per game is because he had 150 touches per game. If he passed and the other guy doesn't shoot then they would reset to MeBron. There is no way he is going to touch the ball 1-2 times on EVERY possession in Miami. It is and will always be Wade's team. No matter how many rings(if any) they win Wade will always have one more than MeBron. It has been pointed out that the 3 ME-AM-I players are in their prime, but that just means they are still immature. When the Septics put their big 3 together they were all experienced veterans on their way out and desperate enough to sacrifice anything for a championship. I can't wait until Wade and Bosh boink MeBron's mom and he has another meltdown.

LTLF-

If they called the 2008 finals like they called the 2006 finals, we'd be heading towards a 4-peat.

Losing Bell is a good thing IF we sign Larry Hughes (LH).

Forget Shanon brown. LH has more hops, better defense, better shot, better Basketball IQ and finally HEALTHY after 2.5 years. Can play 3 positions.

Look at his cap hold number (Bobcats) on him---=less than ($900K).

IF WE DO NOT HEAT WILL.....

The defining "get" at this stage of the FA market.

FCM- I would suggest you try to get a nice group video shot of the Laker Girls yelling “IT IS ALL ABOUT THE LOVE! GO LAKERS!”

Hey, I need something to get me through the cold, cold South Dakota nights.

LTLF- I was going to say

‘not to just jump randomly into a discussion, but doesn’t ‘how the other team is guarding your team, and who they have to guard,” factor into the discussion somewhere? Just wondering if maybe there might be more than one variable.’

And then I got the rest of the way through your comments. You seem to have identified the situation, perhaps with the help of a helpful analogy to two, perhaps. But anyway. It’s fun to read your stuff, you always have infallible logic. Not very useful in ultimately deciding things, perhaps, but you could give lessons in debate to some people around here.

Jon (Tipper) K- Perhaps you should define what you mean by ‘rap’ music. Cause you seem to be equating the medium with the message. Also you seem to be substituting ‘content of lyrics’ for ‘musical quality.’ If, say, I read the poetry of T.S. Eliot out loud to the accompaniment of a couple of toddlers banging on pans with spoons, would that be musically good or not? \

Wait, Andrew Lloyd Webber already answered that. Never mind.

Lewstrs...Put me on that Shanwow Suburban!! We need some young athletic legs coming off the bench and he will only get better. GARRETT GALL...GET A LIFE...WE DON"T LIKE YOU!!!MAMBA24 PLEASE come back soon... WE MISS YOU!!

Now that Kobe is the clear team leader, has more rings, and is on his way to a sixth ring this year....he should make up w/ Shaq and OK his return and thus retirement with the Lakers.......Shaq's couldn't pull rank in the Laker locker room.....Phil would welcome him back, Fish would also.....Kobe just has to influence the FO to bring Shaq back.....it would help both of them from a PR stand point......Kobe forgave Phil, Raja, etc. Bring Shaq back!! Even w/ all his silly antics he is still a major of part of Laker history.....I would really like to see the diesel wearing the 34 Purple and Gold again!!

good point @enjoy the game

"...Kobe forgave Phil, Raja, etc. Bring Shaq back!! Even w/ all his silly antics he is still a major of part of Laker history.....I would really like to see the diesel wearing the 34 Purple and Gold again!! "

Kob forgave players who attacked him physically and never won a ring with, or lived through the highs and lows.. and he won't forgive Shaq? OK however will Shaq accept the vets min to return to the Lakers.... he would consider it let's put it that way. This being the Lakers you never know, but this would all start and end with an OK from Kob

I keep going back and forth on my thoughts about Shannon Brown, but if the Lakers do meet up with the Heat, and IF Brown can learn how to play good aggressive D, I think he's the one guy the Laker's have or even concievably could get who matches up physically with D Wade.

Let Shannon go, develop Sasha (who is just as good as Shannon), spend money on a backup center.

Jon K.

I agree with your assessment of rap, but rap isn't the only socially debiliating entertainment medium out there. For example, the entire slasher genre in movies can be considered an unhealthy source of entertainment for impressionable youth.

The main problem with rap is that it closely relates to what most innercity kids actually experience. It is this group that is prone to violence anyway, and not because of rap music, but because of their upbringing. Kids with solid family foundations and who happen to listen to rap are not the ones that listen to rap and suddenly start gangbanging. So in this way, rap music gets a bad rap (excuse the pun).

Still, I don't like most rap because it features African Americans saying stupid stuff and celebrating dysfunctionalism, effectively reinforcing stereotypes and making all African Americans look bad. But, oh well, this is life...

Shannon Brown is an overrated tweener. Too big and slow to play point. Too short and slow to play shooting guard. Translation: He can't play consistent defense. Additionally, he gets lost on both offensive and defensive reads. Why? Truth be told... He doesn't read the plays quick enough. Why else would 3 mediocre teams give up on him in 3 years before he was shipped to the Lakers?

Yes, he's a dunkers and he's got hops, but such amazing vertical ability with those trunks for legs mean they are too heavy to be qui k on his feet to play effective defense. (See Vince Carter. Can't guard my gramma.) It's just basic physics.

Why do some of you believe or overrated Shannon's overall basketball skill? One, because he's flashy and exciting with his dunks. Two, he plays on a very deep team with a lot of talent that wins a lot, so his major mental lapses and defensive liability mostly go undetected because the Lakers win most of their games anyway.

It's not a coincidence that no one picked him up once he tested the market this summer. No one. GMs around the league know Shannons's weaknesses (his tweener size, mental lapses, and poor defense) and none could justify mid-level money for him. Not New Jersey, New York, Phoenix, Minnesota, Utah, Chicago, Toronto, you name it. All those teams signed up a free agent guard but not Shannon Brown.

Ultimately, the Lakers should not sign Brown. His lack of aptitude was glaringly apparent in the playoffs when he was counted on to be the first guard off the bench...but by the Finals, the Lakers ultimately had the same guard off the bench at the end of the game that has served them well since their 2008 run to the Finals, and was Kobe's back-up in 2009. And that guard is Sasha Vujacic...the dude came in twice in the Finals in 2010 to make clutch free throws to put game 3 away against Boston, and to seal up the O'Brien trophy in game 7 with 10 seconds to go in the game. And he played serious D on Dragic and had a great game 6 (most points of anyone coming off the bench) in an elimination game against Boston. Brown's signing would only continue to take away Sasha's playing time, and with Blake on board, who is a pass first guard unlike Farmar, Sasha will definitely play more consistently next season.

What has happened to the only person who accepted me on this board, Mamba24? I do not post every day, but I noticed he is not here. Can someone elaborate? His posts were entertaining, and he had respect for some "trolls".

Lakers supposedly in negotiations with Jeremy Lin from maverick's summer league team. Don't know what to make of that other than they miss sun yue

Alex V,

Great points. I agree 100%. I'm not getting why this blog, and MM for that matter, is not giving Sasha any respect.

During that critical game, when we needed those 2 clutch freethrows to seal it, did Phil Jackson send in Shannon to hit them, or Sasha?

Love Lakers, Love Rap,


Yeah, and the Beatles were singing "I Wanna Hold Your Hand" and "All You Need Is Love", while the vast majority of Rap refers to women as female dogs.


The historical argument doesn't hold up, dude.


The problem is that more people aren't outraged.


What do we play for? RINGS!!!


Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.


GO LAKERS!!!

Thanks Troy! Look also at D Fish and Horry. Their regular season stats are okay, but they just have a mental ability to play under pressure when the playoffs start. Same with SV. If anyone takes a look at their playoff stats, like Sasha's playoff stats at the official NBA web site, it's pretty apparent these guys have what it takes to play best when it counts...in the playoffs.

troy,


"The main problem with rap is that it closely relates to what most innercity kids actually experience"


Not really. Half the stuff is talking about VIP rooms and living the highlife which the inner city equivalent of white kids from the suburbs singing songs about fighting dragons in the 70's. It's a fantasy.


The other half of it is glorifying the streets in a way that isn't realistic either.


It's all a bunch of nonsense by people looking to get rich off of people's fantasies... fantasies of being more "real" than they really are or somehow escaping into a playboy lifestyle that's not real either.


We've been taught that street life is somehow more real. It may be more extreme, but its way less "real." Everybody's fronting all the time.


What do we play for? RINGS!!!


Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.


GO LAKERS!!!

06, that same season, Kobe scored his 62 in 3 against Dallas - matter of fact, i think he might've destroyed them all season. if you put Kobe in Wade's place in 06 or put that Mavs team against Kobe's 2010 squad (WCF) - Kobe & co will come out on top in both situations, no prob.

Poor Jon K doesn't understand that each generation has its reactionaries to whatever is reflecting the society around them ("Devil's music!" "Godless music!" Etc.). What you're saying about rap has been said about the Beatles, regardless of if you think the Beatles' message was palatable and rap's isn't.

Art reflects society, not the other way around. The Beatles and Bob Dylan didn't start any of the political and cultural movements of their eras, but were the quickest and most thoughtful in absorbing and creating with the ideas that were around. Art is always dependent on context at first, then absorption into the "lexicon" of culture.

Rap didn't cause the things you saw in the bad part of Cleveland you lived in (perhaps "bad" & "Cleveland" are a redundancy there), and sociological and psychological data has shown that. Your anecdotal evidence means nothing: rap music didn't cause the violence and misogyny, or whatever. You don't like it, fine. But naming it as a causality in the downfall of civilization is both naive and dangerous. It smacks of artistic censorship. As others have pointed out, much great art was called the same things your call rap only to later be put up on the pedestal of "mainstream-ism."

lewstrs - thanks for adding me to the Bring Back Shannon bandwagon. I love that kid - he's humble, knows the system, works hard and provides us all with fantastic highlight dunks. The crowd always feeds off his energy, so he provides that spark off the bench we need in the 2nd unti. I hope we keep him - I think the injury to his hand was definitely an issue for him. I have some concerns regarding him on the defensive end, but I would expect continued improvement. I guess we'll find out soon enough!

troy - I LOVE me some Machine! And so does Kobe. It's great when he comes into the game & adds another player to the Sasha Hate Club LOL!! Pesky defense is a must, but sometimes he seems out of control. Still - the boy's got ice water in his veins. He drained those FT's in Game 7 like he was hanging out at the gym just waiting for the game to start!! Cool as a cucumber. You gotta love the kid for his confidence alone. He's another guy that had an injury issue, so getting healthy this summer is the key for him. (Not to mention all our starters)! I think The Machine will be back this coming season.


I'm really waiting for news of surgeries & rehabbing programs for our guys. I want to know what Kobe's doing about his fingers. And his knees. How's his back? When's Drew's surgery? What about LO's shoulder? Will it require surgery? What's his training program going to include this year? Thriller's feet - are they completely better? Will he need to switch shoes? Pau's hamstrings - no problems? And what about his fingers? Am I forgetting anyone? LOL! And what about PJ? Is he in for another season on the high chair? And will he be travelling for every road game or will any coaching responsibilities be delegated? (I know it's probably too soon to answer that question, but still - it's on my mind....)

Also - I'm really on pins & needles wondering if there will be any other moves by the FO to snap up any existing talent out there. Or will we stick with who we've got? Sheesh..... I kinda hate the off season - don't you?? Oh well - more developments coming up, plus with USA basketball and the great MM keeping us informed & entertained, should keep me from jonesing too badly... maybe...


Jon K; et al,

Try this link if ur interested in hearing some not so 'caustic' hip-hop music.(LOL)

The name of the show is 'Decipher' and airs from 10:00 - 11:00 PM EST (weeknights only).

You MIGHT just change your mind about hip-hop music after listening to these guys and gals for a while. Most commercial 'rap' or hip-hop music is pure crap, imo but, this is a non-commercial, listener-supported Pacifica Network station and they almost never play the standard fare that the commercial stations play, and when they do it's almost always on a much more positive tip w/o being boring or corny.

Just my 2 cents worth...

http://www.wpfw.org/assets/streaming/index.html

Let's go Ls...all the way to a 3-peat!!!!!


Brown is an asset and I hope we re-sign him.

But there is someone even more important to retain.

A recent article on ESPN.com talked about the 4 Lakers who may not return (Shannon, Powell, DJ Mbenga, and Morrison) and that Caracter and Ebanks would most likely fill 2 of those spots cause they're decent and cheap. We can do without Powell and Adam Morrison. I really want to keep Shannon but if push comes to shove we can do without him. Who we can't do without is DJ Mbenga.

Aside from his valuable role in practices, he's arguably the best third string center in the NBA. But the big hole he fills is - what do we do if Drew goes down again with an injury - as he has every year? Gasol as a 48 minute center? That would be the worst thing that could happen to him - and us. Caracter as a back-up? Veterans would eat him alive plus we'd lose our massive height advantage in the middle. We absolutely need another 7 footer with defensive and shotblocking skills who can help cut Drew's (and Pau's) minutes during the regular season and fill in if either one gets injured. Add to that his knowledge of the triangle and he's indispensable - especially because he'd likely re-sign for the vet minimum.

BRING BACK BENGA!
BRING BACK BENGA!
BRING BACK BENGA!

Miami's lone title was a gift from the NBA due to a vendetta against Mark Cuban and his big mouth.

Kobe was pushed and shoved on the perimeter by at least two defenders on each play in the '08 finals. In '06 it was a trip to the line for Wade. In '08, crickets.

Pau was shoved constantly so that Rondo could come around weakside, rake him across the arms, and get a steal. Again crickets from the officials.

Game 4 was a travesty of officiating. Take that away, you've got a 7 game series.

More even officiating, and it's a Lakers 4peat. Anyone denying that has an obvious agenda.

Jay Jay -


I think you mean MBRING MBACK MBENGA!!!


And yeah - add me to that bandwagon too. Another quality guy with knowledge of our system, great attitude and gives 100%. Plus he played well when he was in the game for meaningful minutes. If nothing else, he's a fantastic shot blocker, and his height alone will create altered shots for anyone thinking they'd like to drive to the hole. Plus - and this is as yet unproven - I think he could take down princess jimmy if need be and she wouldn't know what hit her. Just for that I say sign Congo Cash lol!


THE PERFECT STORM !!!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Heat troll is right that you can build a winning strategy by going with the team that wants it most. His problem is that he doesn’t see the perfect storm of events coming together that will guarantee that the Lakers will be motivated like never before. Here is what I see in the tea leaves:
~
First of all, this is Phil’s Last Stand and you can bet that every Laker player is going to be motivated to the hilt to send Phil to Montana with a fourth three-peat added to his unparalleled legacy. The love and respect that this team shares for its coach is unmatched in professional sports. Kobe and Fish are going to be driven to raise the level of the team’s performance so Phil can leave the game a winner.
~
Then there is the Lakers’ opportunity to tie the Celtics with their 17th NBA championship and Kobe’s opportunity to tie MJ with his 6th championship ring, not to mention also surpassing Magic’s 5 rings. I look for the Lakers to show a season long dedication and consistency like we have never seen before, a bold realization of how important this season is to the legacy of the franchise and its greatest player.
~
Next, what better motivation than ESPN and eastern sports media proclaiming the Miami heat to be a destiny in the making and the new favorites to win the NBA championship in total disrespect to the two-time defending NBA champion Los Angeles Lakers. All this for a team whose star players have a total of one NBA championship on their resume and some very big chemistry issues to be resolved.
~
Finally, if the Heat troll thinks the odds are pretty good that LeBron and Wade will be able to play effectively together, here’s something he might want to consider that has better odds of happening: Andrew Bynum having a healthy breakout season. That’s the X-factor all of the other teams in the NBA are praying doesn’t happen. Too bad because 2011 is going to be the Year of the BEAST!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
TOM

Not sure about Mbenga. Great guy, I have a lot of respect for his work ethic and he has demonstrated he has skills, but Phil wouldn't play him in the Boston series even when Drew was at maybe 50%, and that makes me wonder.

Yeah, and I just wrote a long and passionate defense of rap music and art that depicts unpalatable things in general, and then decided not to post it, because this is a blog about basketball...

Forgot about Larry Hughes! He would be a good addition to help defend against Wade's Miami Heat team or Celtics bench. Hope MK does not let the Wade's team plug another hole with LH. LH addition would mean SB accept the $2.1 M or find another team. Bynum backup could come from Shaq/Benga/Oberto/Kurt Thomas or?

Phred - I had the same thoughts about DJ - and I like him. But why didn't Phil play him more? We might be missing something.

The other thing I wondered about him is that with Kareem having helped Drew (and DJ musta been around for some of that), and Kobe practicing his low post, how come the MBengster never learned a low post game of his own? I would think that given the great opportunities around him that it would be a priority.

But I do love the guy and his shock blocking extraordinaire.

lol @ the heat role player solutions: latest one...penny hardaway? 39 years young

Howdy Laker Tom - great read as usual! I hope you're right about Socks. I would absolutely LOVE to see him have a healthy season. You just KNOW how dominating he could be if only...

I'm gonna have a Pepsi right now - toasting his upcoming season of health lol!

justa- just wanted to let you know I'm up to season two, episode 11 of Doctor Who. Some great stuff. Still don't like Rose.

also- i finally got the Tom Baker episodes downloaded. Something like 164 episodes over like seven seasons. Looking forward to it, should I ever live long enough.

phred - good stuff! LOL - I was wondering if you had the stamina for it. I can't remember exactly which season was which, but keep me posted! Rose will probably grow on you - especially later in her show life. Do you have a favorite episode so far?

justa- well, i just watched the one with the people from L.I.N.D.A were all tracking the doctor, and the woman ended up on the pavement tile. I thought that was pretty brilliant angle to take, viewing the Doctor through another perspective. I like how they are going deeper into the emotional aspects of the Doctor and what it means to be the Doctor's companion. Also I am developing a serious man crush on David Tennant. I'm not sure what it means when I like the dude better than the hot blonde, but if it's wrong I don't want to be right.

LOL

@ Jon K and Troy

I'm a very strong proponent of EVERYONE being entitled to their own personal opinion and taste even if I disagree or find flaws in their argument and/or assumptions. While its obvious to me, neither of you enjoy or understand the genre, it disappoints me that such broad strokes

" As a genre the music is garbage and it teaches totally the wrong lessons to people without proper mentoring.

I'm still shocked that people defend it. I've been in the trenches and nothing about that lifestyle is anything anyone of self-respect and maturity would EVER want to be a part of.

Period.

People who really defend it just don't know " - Jon K.


"Still, I don't like most rap because it features African Americans saying stupid stuff and celebrating dysfunctionalism, effectively reinforcing stereotypes and making all African Americans look bad. But, oh well, this is life" - Troy


I defend it because Rap played no part in my choices thusfar in life, just like it played no part in say, the White teens that went on a killing spree at Columbine while rockin out to Mettalica. Does that mean Heavy Metal music promotes anti social behavior and violent tendencies? I take offense to that thought process simply because groups like The Roots, Public Enemy, Arrested Development, or artists like Common,Lauryn Hill,KRS One or Talib Kweli dont fit into your preconcieved idealogy of "not knowing" or "African Americans saying stupid stuff and celebrating dysfunctionalism, effectively reinforcing stereotypes and making all African Americans look bad."

No more than Ozzy biting off live animals heads promotes beastiality in White headbangers or the numerous Rockers that have OD promotes drug use in Suburban Kids, And while Troys argument seems, in its most simplistic form, is this genre "makes all African American look bad" the Primary audience and purchasers of this music happens to be Suburban White Kids, let alone the fact that Madison Ave. continues to use Rap/Hip Hop as a viable marketing tool in everything from Fashion, to soundtracks, to even commericals (what pops into mind instantly is the heavy rotation commerical of squirrles or whatever, dancing to the Black Sheeps, The Choice is Yours,- you can get with this, or you can get with that) My post is in no way a means to be confrontational or disrespectful but I believe before you guys post such strong misinformed and inaccurate statements and sentiments, you take a step back and realize that ignorance isnt always wearing jeans hanging off your butt or precious minerals gleaming in ones mouth, but ignorance can sometimes manifest itself with words as well. Your misinformed posts prove that.

David Tenant is my FAVORITE Doctor - hands down. Crush? Yeah - I hear you lol! I like Rose, but my fav girl is Donna. Wait until you get to Silence in the Library - you'll love it. However I think one of the best episodes ever is The Weeping Angels. Tell me what you think when you get that far!

“Censorship in any form is the enemy of creativity, since it cuts off the life blood of creativity: ideas.”

Allan Jenkins

Laker Lover, Rap Lover, Complex Brother, Jon (Tipper) K

I appreciate that you guys are all passionate about this. I know Jon K to be someone who strives to be good and moral. I also disagree with him on this. I think you guys have made great points and I would love to discuss this topic with you, as art, free speech, censorship and moral responsibility are favorite topics of mine. Perhaps, and I hope, we can talk about this more at some point.

But let's not get sidetracked here. I'm just going to say that it's great that people with such different viewpoints can be united by something like the Lakers, and lets try to stick to what binds us together, rather than what we might disagree about. So let's go back to talking about that.

THE LOVE IS EVERYWHERE WHERE PEOPLE TRY TO EXPRESS THEMSELVES WITH CREATIVITY AND THE BEST OF THEIR ABILITIES.

WE ALL WIN WHEN THE BEST OF US IS EXPRESSED, NO MATTER THE MEDIUM, NO MATTER THE WORDS, NO MATTER THE TECHNIQUE

IT IS ALL ABOUT THE LOVE

GO LAKERS!

And now back to basketball. When is someone going to get some frickin' surgery? I have a niece who's studying to be a doctor at UCLA and I'm more than willing to volunteer her services.

complex(my)brotha!!!!!!!


How you doin bro? Haven't seen you around in awhile - still partying celebrating Sweet 16 huh?! LOL!!!


Did you catch any of the summer league? How do you weigh in on our rookies? On Steve Blake(r)? Do you think Bell played Kobe? And - perhaps most important of all - did you watch The Decision? HAHAHA!!


phred and 63 -
I think the reason Phil didn't play DJ in the finals has less to do with DJ's skills and more to do with his own philosophy. The deeper into the playoffs we get the more the Zen Master tightens his rotation. I honestly think he'd play 5 guys for 48 minutes if he could get away with it.

justa - I love it!

Lew - how about a Mbring Mback Mbenga bandwagon?

Ah, a voice of sanity and reason comes forward: " I just wrote a long and passionate defense of rap music and art that depicts unpalatable things in general, and then decided not to post it, because this is a blog about basketball..."

Thank you, Phred. Please allow me to go one step further. This is a blog about the Lakers. Or at least it's supposed to be.

Why are we even arguing with Garrett Kall? I say, "Who?" Someone please smash his keyboard and his mouse. Anyone devoting so much verbiage to a Miami roster that hasn't played a single NBA minute together isn't worth our time and attention.

At least Giant Green Baldheaded Lunatic is a fan of a team that has proven to be a worthy adversary of the Lakers and has a championship trophy to prove it. I respect Lunatic because I must respect his team.

Assembling our own roster is far from done. Mark Medina has constructed a passionate and solid argument for the return of Shannon Brown. If you haven't yet read it, ESPNLos Angeles.com's Dave McMenamin has a well-sourced and well-rounded analysis regarding all four open spots on the Lakers' roster.

http://es.pn/cmELdt

Let's attend to our knitting, as they say. For the record, I prefer Barnes over Brown, but if the Lakers re-sign Shannon I'm fine with it. Considering the minutes the rest of the roster will ever burn, bring on Ebanks and Caracter. And as for the last spot, I'm not at all interested in Shaq. If he wants to retire as a Laker, fine, but for me that would mean signing him only on the condition that his retirement becomes official 60 seconds after the ink dries.

Now, about rap. 90% of the music on my iPod is rock. 5% is jazz. But lately I've been downloading an increasing amount of music from the rap genre. My musical training throughout elementary and high school was classical. It allows me to hear good things in all forms of music. Rap is about the beat as well as the lyrics and a lot of it really reaches me.

Rick - is Barnes still on the table? I lost track of the guy in all of this.

Getting Shaq for a "sign-and-retire" sounds good to me.

LTLF,

Hate to point out there's a flaw in your argument about shooting percentages and assists. If Mo & Wade shoot an equal %, then their open look % leading to an assist is still unknown UNLESS these two players are taking the same ratio of open looks verses contested looks. Also, you'd want the same defender(s) on each for an accurate comparison. Ultimately, Wade is taking harder shots against better defenders than a guy like Mo Williams.

There are other factors that could balance this out some.

63 footer,

As far as I can tell, Barnes is still an unrestricted free agent. The Magic have signed Quentin Richardson to Barnes old roster spot. He's been talking to the Warriors, but so far it's been only talk, not an offer.

Thanks Rick - I think Barnes might have more value than Shannon (if we go after Barnes, let alone get him), but with Blake, Shannon may have a little easier time integrating with the triangle and won't have to do so much dribbling. Until the dunk contest, I was feeling pretty good about UPS. If he comes back, maybe the healed hand and a 2nd championship ring might put him back on the upward path.

Let Shannon go, develop Sasha (who is just as good as Shannon), spend money on a backup center. - Troy

~~Let's follow that argument, don't sign SB and assuming Lakers will be offering him 3M, save that for a Center. Can the Lakers really spend 3M for a Center? See the CBA rules provided by Allnet in previous thread or see below. Without SB, Lakers salary is already 89M, they are already reach the way, way over the cap and over the luxury threshold, the only remaining MLE is 1.8M How many veteran Centers are willing to play at that level? OR Sign Aa Center at vet min which is 1.3M. On Brown and Mbenga, Lakers can increase their salaries or negotiate with them above those numbers. Lakers can't do anything except trade existing players or peddle future Championship rings to the remaining F/A on one year basis.

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q9

I think Matt Barnes is better suited to play on a team that plays a run and gun style, like what he had in Golden State a few years ago. I'm not sure how he would fit in a structured offense that requires discipline and basketball IQ.

 
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