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Caught in the Web: free agency update

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-- The Deseret News' Tim Buckley details how Utah beat out the Lakers in acquiring Raja Bell.

-- ESPN Los Angeles' Andy Kamenetzky looks at who could challenge the Lakers in the West.

-- Sports Illustrated's Chris Mannix highlights Gerald Green's progression.

-- ESPN Los Angeles' Dave McMenamin gives a detailed update on what the Lakers are addressing for the rest of free agency.

-- Pro Basketball Talk's Matt Moore breaks down the Spurs-Lakers Summer League game.

-- The Riverside Press Enterprise's Gregg Patton advises that Laker fans shouldn't worry about Miami's Super Team.

-- The Salt Lake Tribune's Ross Siler reports Utah had placed Bell on the top of its free-agent wish list.

-- Forum Blue and Gold's Jeff highlights the good and the bad from Lamar Odom's season.

-- Silver Screen and Roll's wondahbap wonders if Cleveland Coach Byron Scott still wants the Lakers job.

Tweet of the Day: ""Kobe was very cool about it. I told him my situation and we talked about it for a minute. He thought it was a no-brainer for me also ... I know Jazz fans might not want to hear it, but Kobe and I are actually on pretty good terms ... Our relationship’s come a long way since whatever year that was in the playoffs ... Just because we’re on better terms as people doesn’t mean that I’m still not going to go out and try my best to hold him to whatever I can hold him to. I’ll look forward to that, I’m sure he will too. He’s the ultimate competitor, so it’ll all be good here.” -- tribjazz (Bell to The Salt Lake Tribune's Ross Siler on his relationship with Kobe Bryant)

Reader Comment of the Day: "You know who was happiest about the Miami trio? It wasn't Bosh. It wasn't Wade. It wasn't Lebron. It wasn't all the ghetto fabulous Miami residence at that ostentatious WWF-like introduction. It was Kobe Bryant, Phil Jackson, and Derek Fisher. They know that one of the hardest things about repeating is finding out where the next challenge is going to be. Those guys live for this. And they've got 21 championship rings to show for it." -- ToddtheBod

Follow the L.A. Times Lakers blog on Twitter: twitter.com/latmedina. E-mail the Lakers blog at [email protected]

--Mark Medina

Photo: Lakers General Manager Mitch Kupchak has a few orders of business still to address during free agency. Credit: Wally Skalij / Los Angeles Times
 
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Lakers still have time to choose a backup player as teams begin to cut rosters. Maybe surprise vet let go because of rookie getting spot on other team. Lets see what shakes out.

>>>Example: two attempt, one made = 50%
>>>ten attempts, four made = 40%
>>>do u mean to tell me the 50% player was better than the 40% player?

Well, if the sample sizes are that small, then neither of them is significantly significant. So first of all we have no idea if the guy who took two shots is a more efficient shooter than the guy who took 10 shots.

Note that Luke Walton has played 7980 minutes in the NBA. And has taken 2087 shots.

Do you comprehend the significance of sample size? 2 shots (or however many minutes that person played) is not a significant sample size. 2000 shots and almost 8000 minutes played is a large enough sample size that statistics like shooting percentage and number of rebounds per minute played are meaningful.

Second, you just proved my point.

You talk about 2 shots and 10 shots... and then you ask if I THINK THEY'RE A BETTER PLAYER. Not a more efficient shooter, but a better player.

You don't seem to comprehend the significance of comparing ONE SINGLE STATISTIC of production vs comparing two players.

For me to say that Luke Walton has been a more efficient shooter than Ron Artest in their respective careers is not an opinion of mine. This is not something where I have an opinion and you have an opinion and we can agree to disagree. It is a fact. Nothing you say can change the fact.

Now if you ask who is a better player, then that is an objective thing, where each of us can have an opinion. And I'm sure we both agree that Ron Artest is a better player than Luke Walton.

Are you following this? Luke is a more efficient shooter and has been a more productive rebounder when he's on the floor, but Artest is the better player. Two of those things are facts. The third thing is an opinion. Do you understand the difference between a fact and an opinion?


Lew - how about a Mbring Mback Mbenga bandwagon?

Posted by: Jay Jay | July 16, 2010 at 10:45 PM

*********************

DJ Bandwagon Suburban

====------ === ------===
/_____l______l__ ___\____
ll- - - Mitch Sign MBenga ------]
L___(X)l______l__ ____l(X) J


Jay Jay
justanothermambafan
LEWSTRS
63 Footer
JustaLakerFan

Bring Back Shannon Suburban

====------ === ------===
/_____l______l__ ___\____
ll- - - Bring Back Shannonl --------]
L___(0)l______l__ ____l(0) J

Purple & Gold Reign
Jamie Sweet
hopalong
Double B
Magic Phil
justanothermambafan
LEWSTRS
Mark Medina
htj
yellofever
PointForward
NewMexicoLakerLifer
island priest
JustaLakerFan

This is for Edwin Gueco and Staples 24 and a few others:

Let's take this step by step. I'll make it nice easy yes or no questions. All you have to do is go confirm the facts for yourself (not opinions but facts). If you're not sure where to look them up, I got the numbers from ESPN's player cards.

1. Do you admit that Ron Artest has taken 8933 shots in his career?
2. Do you admit that Ron Artest has made 3670 shots in his career?
3. Do you admit that 3670 / 8933 = .410

4. Do you admit that Luke Walton has taken 2087 shots in his career?
5. Do you admit that Luke Walton has made 917 shots in his career?
6. Do you admit that 917 / 2087 = .439

7. Do you admit that .439 > .410?

Boom. There you have it. Luke Walton has been a more efficient shooter than Ron Artest in their respective careers.

Don't worry! You don't have to claim that Luke is BETTER than Ron to see the fact here. All you have to see is that it is a FACT that Luke is a more efficient shooter than Ron.

Very simple.

Now, if you disagree with any of 1 through 6, then please take it up with the NBA's stat keeping, because they will want to know that they have been keeping their statistics wrong. And if you disagree with statement 7, then I suggest you re-take 8th grade math.

LTLF, laying down the truth!

Now that is a Reader Comment of the Day!

Put me in the MBRING MBACK MBENGA BANDWAGON!!!
-
MM, I'm waiting for good news on Shannon...

MBRING MBACK MBENGA BANDWAGON

====------ === ------===
/_____l______l__ ___\____
ll- - - Mitch Sign DJ MBenga ------]
L___(@)l______l__ ____l(@) J


Jay Jay
justanothermambafan
LEWSTRS
63 Footer
JustaLakerFan
Magic Phil

Not to get into the middle of the Walton/Artest debate, but two quick points:

1) Artest has 3760 fgm (not 3670), meaning his career field goal percentage is .421 (still lower than Waltons)

2) The logic of LTLF is sound, with one exception: he assumes that "more efficient shooter" is universally defined as "having a higher field goal percentage." This is not a great assumption, since it doesn't factor in three-point field goal shooting. Efficiency-wise, a 33.3% three-point shooter is just as efficient as a 50% two-point field goal shooter. That's why some people look at points per field goal attempted as a better measure of shooting efficiency (although there are other, more complicated measures, too). A quick calculation reveals that Artest is a more efficient shooter from a points per shot measure:

Walton: 2331 points / 1064 fga 1.117 points per shot attempt

Artest: 10567 points / 8933 fga 1.183 points per shot attempt

Sorry -- typo on Walton's FGA (but points per shot attempt was correct in that post). Should read:

Walton: 2331 points / 2087 fga 1.117 points per shot attempt

Artest: 10567 points / 8933 fga 1.183 points per shot attempt

Sorry -- typo on Walton's FGA (but points per shot attempt was correct in that post). Should read:

Walton: 2331 points / 2087 fga 1.117 points per shot attempt

Artest: 10567 points / 8933 fga 1.183 points per shot attempt

Sorry -- typo on Walton's FGA (but points per shot attempt was correct in that post). Should read:

Walton: 2331 points / 2087 fga 1.117 points per shot attempt

Artest: 10567 points / 8933 fga 1.183 points per shot attempt

I have BIG expectations for Sasha this year. I feel if he gets enough playing time, he can get his rhythm back, get some confidence, and find that Machine again...

Now Farmar is gone, PJ should be giving Sasha more time on the floor...

I feel the team is already better than last year's roster...We sign DJ, and the 2 rookies, and I'm good with that roster...

I hope Kobe, AB, LO, and Luke all get healthy before training camp, and start molding this team into a well oiled machine, to come out firing at the start of the 2010-2011 season...

Let's go Lakeshow...#17 Coming Up!

LTLF,

Your stats are quite misleading. You are not taking into account three pointers and FT's made when you list shots and shot attempts. You're also not taking into account the fact that Luke has been more wide open in his career than any player I have ever seen. Defenses have consistently given him no respect (with good reason). His defender is usually doubling the paint or doubling Kobe. Ron, on the other hand, has been the main, or one of the main, focal points on offense for most of his career, which leads to more attention from defenses. The game is more than about numbers.

Though DJ is a great team guy Phil shows no confidence in him whatsoever, which means Pau will play too many minutes and be a risk for injury.....The Lakers need a true backup center who Phil can trust to fill in for Bynum and keep Pau rested. Kobe and Pau's mins have to be limited to 36-37 per this season if they are going to make their four straight trip to the finals. 100 + games is a lot to play w/ no useful backup at the 5. Shannon is also a fantastically athletic young player but his decision making and defense have were avg at best last season. I would really like to see the Lakers pickup Kurt Thomas or Theo Ratliff/and sign Character....DJ is not a guy Phil trusts so IMO his 900K + could be used to sign one of both of the draft picks. Mitch should take a good long look at TMAC as he would cost about 2 mil than Shannon per season.... The key to winning it all next season will be managing the cores mins w/ and deep/productive second unit.....

The Lakers are also glad for another reason: as two-time consecutive NBA Champs, they normally would have the biggest target on their backs next season. With the manner in which the self-anointed "King James" chose to announce his decision, the ESPN co-dependent behavior, all the hooplala that the Heat created in announcing their "Dynamic Trio", and all the other over-the-top buzz that this has created, it is clear that the Heat is EXPECTED TO WIN THE NBA CHAMPIONSHIP the first time out. Fans will make too much out of a big winning streak, and they will also make too much out of a three-game losing streak (much like what happened to the Lakers last year, even though the ups and downs were related to injuries, not team decline). Every little thing the Heat does will be dissected, their progress as a "team" will be scrutinized daily, their opponents will be gunning for them. Not that the Lakers will not get some of the same treatment, but I am betting that, outside LA proper, the Lakers will not get the same treatment they would have otherwise gotten had LeBron chosen to stay in Cleveland (and LeBron can spread the blame if the Heat underperform), which I think is likely. Basketball is a TEAM sport, and even when you have three of the best players on the same squad, if they don't play as a team, they won't win. In the finals against the Celtics, Kobe was feeling the toll of carrying HIS team all year, and in those last two games (and in the whole Celtic series), the rest of the TEAM stepped up. What put the Lakers over the top, and powered them to the last two wins at home after falling behind in the series 3-2, was the EXPERIENCE of Kobe, Derek Fisher, and Phil Jackson, combined with all the members of the team contributing to the last two wins. After the final game, Kobe admitted that he was physically and emotionally spent, but ONLY after they had won the championship. On the court, he was smart enough to know what he could still accomplish well, and how to help his teammates win. The Big Three from the Heat, have one championship among them. We all know the numbers on the Laker side. Experience and playing together as a team will result in the Lakers pulling a three-peat, while LeBron and Wade and Bosh learn that there is only one ball, there can only be one "main man", and who to go to in "crunch time". They will all want the ball, but only one of them can shoot it at a time. I see dissension in their future (remember Shaq/Kobe?) I predict that if the Heat don't win by Season 2 of the triumvirate, the fans and the team will get impatient, and somebody will be traded, and it won't be LeBron (which, in my opinion would be a mistake). This guy may have physical skills, but he does not have the mindset of a champion. Just watch the last couple of minutes of the last two games against the Celtics. I did not see the fire of a champion in the lethargic and confused LeBron who seemed to me to give up. Can you even IMAGINE Kobe giving up? Even if the Lakers were behind by 11 with two minutes to go? Or one minute to go? Or 30 seconds to go? Kobe has the heart of a champion, and he does not have to pound his chest repeatedly (KG) to show or prove it. He just does it, to paraphrase the Nike ads.

Lewstrs - I too am hoping for good things from Sasha. Aside from being healthy, maturing, etc., you know how they always say in a blowout playoff games "Don't let one of their guys get going or it might carry over to the next game?" I think Sasha's Finals free throws might "carry over" into this season. At least I hope they do.

Showtime,

>>>Walton: 2331 points / 2087 fga 1.117 points per shot attempt
>>>Artest: 10567 points / 8933 fga 1.183 points per shot attempt

EXCELLENT!!! Now THAT's what I'm talking about. Instead of screaming that I'm an idiot, Showtime digs further into the stats and finds a measure to contradict me. Very nice.

Though I will point out that points per shot attempt is a measure of scoring efficiency rather than shooting efficiency, because it also takes made free throws into account. Remember that free throws count as points, but don't count as free throw attempts.

So let's look first look at the individual stats.

On 2 point shots, here are their percentages:
Luke - .467
Artest - .449
So Luke is more efficient on 2-pointers than Artest is.

On 3 point shots, here are their percentages:
Luke - .336
Artest - .344
So Artest is a better 3-point shooter than Luke.

And on free throws, here are their percentages:
Luke - .725
Artest - .721
So Luke is a very slightly more efficient free throw shooter (but just barely)


So basically, Luke is more efficient at shooting 2-pointers and free throws than Artest, while Artest is a better 3-point shooter, AND is better at drawing fouls than Luke.

So while my stats were correct, my statement about efficiency was not completely correct.

Thank you Showtime for pointing out the error of my ways.

Next up - tell me who was a better rebounder - Dennis Rodman or Robert Parrish?

Let me rephrase that...

Who was a more effective (or efficient) rebounder - Parish or Rodman?

Junk stats.

enjoy the game -

PJ's rotations drives me crazy at times...I hope he changes and gets more aggressive...like I said, we need a fast start out of the gates...9-1 record minimum...

I would also like to see, some minutes for the rookies...not just garbage time...If we can get a good start...maybe he can give more minutes to the bench against the weaker teams...

Your point is very important...It's a long 82 practice game season...limiting the starters is key to being full and healthy strength for the real season...the playoffs...

enjoy the game -

PJ's rotations drives me crazy at times...I hope he changes and gets more aggressive...like I said, we need a fast start out of the gates...9-1 record minimum...

I would also like to see, some minutes for the rookies...not just garbage time...If we can get a good start...maybe he can give more minutes to the bench against the weaker teams...

Your point is very important...It's a long 82 practice game season...limiting the starters is key to being full and healthy strength for the real season...the playoffs...

I don't think Josh Powell should have a hard time finding another place to play should the Lakers choose not to re-sign him. He would make a solid backup PF on pretty much any other team. He plays and works hard, and has a good midrange game.

I hope that Mitch is pursuing Oberto hard. He's the type of skilled big man that could give us significant minutes and limit the wear and tear on Pau and Drew during the regular season. He has championship experience, and seems to just have a good feel for the game. I know DJ is the sentimental favorite here, but I think Oberto would be a better fit for this team.

Repost:
GGBHL...

I'll stand up and agree with Johnny V. Your Celtics are the dirtiest bunch of basketball players that I have ever seen. KG is nothing more than a bully and a pig. Same with Pierce, Allen, Rondo, Big Baby and EVERYBODY ELSE ON YOUR TEAM! Doc Rivers is the most mealy-mouthed, whiningest, complaining coach in the Association. The Celtics foul on every play, knowing that the refs can't call every one, and then call it good, physical basketball. The truth about your Celtics is that they know that they can't defeat teams with skill so they foul and cheat to gain every advantage they can. And it's been that way since the Russell/Auerbach days. In Short, BOSTON SUCKS!!!


Posted by: bronxlakerfan | July 17, 2010 at 11:36 AM


Repost:

Sonny Belfast...

What's happened to you, my friend? You used to be able to be counted on for some good, wry humor. Now, your're coming off totally different.

Maybe it's because that since the Lakers beat back the Kings to irrelevence in the early 2000's, your team hasn't been able to recover. Every year, you guys are either in the draft lottery or hoping to be in the draft lottery. Your team never seems to get better. It seems that your "NBA Finals" are the couple of games that are on the schedule against the Lakers.

I notice your comments on this site don't even speak to how the Kings can improve. It seems you're just fixated on the Lakers and bringing them and their fans down. Tsk, tsk!!

Posted by: bronxlakerfan | July 17, 2010 at 11:45 AM

Powell, DJ, Adam, Farmar, = 9+ million last season

Blake, TMac/ Barnes, Kurt Thomas = 7 million and much more rest for the starters


Blake, (Shannon/TMAC/ Barnes), LO, Character, Ebanks, (Kurt Thomas/Theo Ratliff), and the Bad contracts (Sasha/ Luke) .....a second unit Phil can trust.

No way shannon should get more than 2.5mill per....IMO the Lakers would be better off doing a 1 year deal at the vet min w/ TMAC or Barnes

"Don't worry! You don't have to claim that Luke is BETTER than Ron to see the fact here."


Volume shooters will always have lesser percentage. Kobe has less percentage than Bynum, Still, Kobe is better than Bynum. so what's your point about your stats? It does not mean anything. Same with Luke and Ron. So, what is your argument? I don't get it.

Brad Miller just went to the Rockets.

Have you taken into account OPEN SHOTS BY WALTON AND STILL MISSED?


How abourt Walton playing tons of GARBAGE TIME? Easiest to make a basket.


YEP, your stats tell the truth. Hmmm.

Those seats look like they have no leg room at all. Makes me almost glad I can't afford to go to a Laker's game.

Those seats look like they have no leg room at all. Makes me almost glad I can't afford to go to a Laker's game.

bronxlakersfan - very intelligent comeback, shows your total knowledge of the game. Perhaps you slept through the Pistons teams of the late 80's? Those guys were dirty!!

There is a difference between chest-thumping and playing dirty. I don't go much for the trash talking, but any Celtics fan will tell you, it was WAAYYY lower than 2 years ago.

In addition, I thought Gasol outplayed KG in the Finals this year, and should have won the MVP award. KG has toned it way down since his injury. As far as Doc goes - who gets fined more for whining than Phil? How throws his players under the bus more than Phil? When you find your answer, I'll be waiting, and I'm sure it will be filled with more delicious 2 cent words. Yep, you really know your stuff!!

Those seats look like they have no leg room at all. Makes me almost glad I can't afford to go to a Laker's game.

Posted by: Erik | July 17, 2010 at 12:13 PM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thats not Staples Center. The big giant bold sign on the steps that read "TD Banknorth Garden" should have made that pretty damn clear.

We need to get Shaq back on this team. It all makes sense.

Lew - put me on the bring back Shannon wagon. This is the Lakers so we must have at least one EXPLOSIVE player.

Enjoy - I agree no sense in bringing back DJ if Phil won't play him. If Kwame would come for the minimum I would prefer him. We all know his limitations, his hands of stone and the dark era in which played for LA. But hopefully ATL will get Shaq. Then if the Lakers sign Kwame it wouldn't leave scraps for Miami and Boston. Also what's up with Rasho Nesterovic? He would be a decent 4th big. I prefer any of these over Ratliff.

>>> Kobe has less percentage than Bynum, Still, Kobe is better than Bynum. so
>>> what's your point about your stats?

Yes. Kobe is better than Bynum.

But Bynum is a more efficient shooter than Kobe.

If you don't believe me, then why does everyone (especially the coach) say that they need to get the ball in to the post more?

It's because if Bynum takes a shot from 3 feet, he's more likely to score than if Kobe takes a shot from 20 feet.

The difference there isn't in the efficiency of the shooting, but in that Bynum requires someone to get him the ball in position. He can't catch the ball on the wing, juke and jive past two defenders and get to the rim like Kobe can.

Staples 24,

>>>Have you taken into account OPEN SHOTS BY WALTON AND STILL MISSED?

Did you watch Artest in the playoffs this year. ALMOST EVERY SHOT HE TOOK WAS WIDE OPEN, but he still shot a poor 40% for the playoffs.

To claim that Luke is always open and Artest is always covered is ridiculous.

But if that is your claim, then back it up. Make us a video of the first 100 shots taken by Artest and by Luke last season. 100 shots would be a reasonable sample size. And we'll see how closely guarded the two are.

You can turn this into a statistic if you want to put in the effort, but until you do, it's just a baseless claim that you're making up.

Shannon definitely going to re-sign. He wants to do more music videos with Toni Braxton and Monica. Probably want to do them too....

I think we can sum up LTLF's efficiency argument with this: though player A may be a more efficient shooter than player B, player B may in fact be the better player. More efficient, therefore, does not mean better, it only means more efficient.

Doc Rivers= Overrated losing coach who never won squat until two hall of famers fell into his lap. One of which was gifted to him by a former keltic, dirty, clotheslining, Frankenstein-looking worst GM not named Thomas in NBA history.

>>>>So, what is your argument? I don't get it.

Okay, here's how it is:

When you compare two players to decide who's better, how do you do it?

Do you base it on their hair color?

Do you base it on how much they can bench press?

Do you base it on whether they're a starter or a backup? Eric Dampier has started more games and played more minutes than Andrew Bynum. Is he better?

No. The most appropriate way to compare players is by what they contribute to the game. Points, rebounds, blocks, assists, and steals are all measurable quantities. And while head to head comparisons are slighly skewed by who your teammates are (e.g. If Dennis Rodman is your teammate, you'll probably get less rebounds than if some lesser rebounder is your teammate), they are a quantifiable way to compare players.

There are also non-measurable quantities. For example, I think we both agree that Ron Artest is a much better defender than Luke is, but that isn't a measurable thing. If I asked you whether Luke or Radmanovic is a better defender, you'd have a harder time deciding.

But note that in your perception, you will always be biased to the people who play more minutes. If someone gets to take a lot of shots in the offense of their team, you will perceive them to be a better shooter than someone who only gets to play a smaller number of minutes and is a 5th or 6th option in the offense. You can't help it. Your mind just sees someone shooting more so you perceive them as being better than the person who plays and shoots less.

Remember the question I asked about Parish vs Rodman?

I think most people would say that Dennis Rodman was a better rebounder than Robert Parish. Would you agree?

If you looked at total number of rebounds in their career, then Parish had a lot more than Rodman. But he also played a lot more games than Rodman did. If you look at the number of rebounds per game, or the number of rebounds per minute they played, then Rodman was a MUCH more effective rebounder than Parish.

His first season in the league, Rodman only averaged 4.3 rebounds while playing 15 minutes. If you ignore the number of minutes played, you'd say, "Only 4 rebounds a game? That's just okay.

That same season, while Rodman was averaging 4.3 rebounds, Robert Parish averaged 10.3 rebounds. So you'd say "10 rebounds a game. Wow, that guy is much better than that Rodman guy". But Parish was playing 37.4 minutes per game.

So Parish was averaging 1 rebound every 3.6 minutes he was on the floor.

And Rodman was averaging 1 rebound every 3.5 minutes he was on the floor.

So even when Rodman was playing less than a third the minutes per game that Parish was playing, you could statistically measure that he was about as effective as Parrish as a rebounder.

Later in his career, when Rodman got starter level minutes he led the league in rebounding for 7 years straight. And all but one of those seasons, he averaged 15 or more rebounds.

But even when he was only playing 15 minutes per game, you could compare his per-minute stats with the top rebounders in the league like Parrish and Kareem and you could see that Rodman was an effective rebounder for the amount of time he got to play.

Now. Back to Artest/Luke.

Just because Luke hasn't gotten to play starter level minutes for most of his career doesn't mean that Artest is better than Luke in every facet of the game. Artest is a pretty good offensive player, but he's a starter mostly based on his defense, which is very good.

So if you're comparing Luke and Artest as players, I don't think anyone would claim that Luke is a better player than Artest. And I didn't claim that. But how you compare the two is objectively on measurable stats AND subjectively by your opinion of how they perform in areas that aren't measureable.

On measurable stats, if you want to be FAIR, then you normalize their stats to the number of minutes they've played. Just like you could compare Rodman's rebounding skills when he was only playing 15 minutes a game to people who were playing more minutes per game, you can do the same with Luke and Artest.

And when you normalize their stats to playing time, then here are how they stack up on measurable stats:

Luke gets more rebounds per minute played than Artest.
Luke gets more assists per minute played.
Artest gets more points per minute played.
Artest gets more steals per minute played
Artest gets more blocks per minute played
Artest commits more fouls per minute played
Luke shoots a higher percentage on 2-point shots
Artest shoots a higher percentage on 3-point shots
Luke shoots a higher percentage (barely) on free throws

These are facts. These are not opinions. These are not biased things on my part. These are measurable contributions on which you can compare Artest and Walton.

Now. The reason I pointed these out in the first place (and have had to defend them over and over), is to point out to people that there are areas of the game where Luke is actually better than Ron. That isn't to say that Ron isn't the better overall player or that I think Luke should start or anything like that. All I'm saying is that there are areas of the game where Luke is more effective than Ron.

Nobody had any problem believing me that Luke is a better passer than Ron. Because that's Luke's best talent. It was the shooting and the rebounds that people got all goofy about when I posted the facts.

Because Ron is a better player than Luke, you want to believe that he's better in every facet of the game than Luke is. But that's just not the case. There are a few areas of the game where Luke outperforms Ron, and field goal % and rebounding per minute played happen to be two of them.

That is my claim. Deny it if you will, but the facts back me up.

The value of DJ is as a practice player. If Shannon is resigned at about the same pay, then Blake/Caracter/Ebanks take the place in the lineup of Farmar/Powell/Morrison of last year's team. Lakers save money and have a slightly better team than last year's champion with more future upside in the rookies.

That leaves the only open spot as reserve C. It would be nice to have a better reserve C than Mbenga but would likely cost more money w/c the Lakers clearly do not want to spend. DJ knows the system and though he does not play enough minutes to take more load off Gasol's PT, Mbenga is a good big body to bang around with in practice for Bynum and Pau - and he's cheap, and is healthy and young. The only reserve C Lakers can get at this point are old and may not even be healthy enough for a long run into the playoffs.

Anyone who underestimate's the threat of the Heat is wishful dreaming. Miami will be formidable next season with Pat Riley pulling the strings behind the best NBA 3some since Magic/Kareem/Worthy and Bird/McHale/Parrish.
With Mike Miller, Hasleem, Z now having joined as solid backups plus God knows whoever last run for the ring vets Riley can inspire to join. Hopefully, Boston, Orlando and Chicago are going to be good enough to bang Miami around for at least 2 rounds in the EC playoffs while the Lakers have an easier time in the diminished West. A Laker-Heat Final will be classic and is THE motivation that Kobe, Phil and company need for a 2nd 3 peat, as well as PJ's likely last season.

>>>How abourt Walton playing tons of GARBAGE TIME? Easiest to make a basket.

Luke's highest shooting percentage for a season of his career was for 2006-07, the year he started.

When all you get to play is garbage time, it's a lot harder to get into a rhythm, particularly if you're a pass first, low volume shooter like Luke.

Yipes! 3 years for 15 million for Brad Miller.

I'm starting to doubt that the Lakers will be able to sign ANY veteran frount court player for a minimum contract, even with the potential for getting a ring. They're just getting so overpaid this summer, it's ridiculous.

The only one who signed for minimum was Ilgauskas, and I think that was a payback to LeBron who got him a bigger contract than he deserved the last time he re-signed with Cleveland.

Wouldn't surprise me now if MBenga signed a 3 years at 3 million per deal with some team desperate to have some height to compete with the Lakers.

Miami will be a contender baring injury....the Lakers cannot afford to waste 3 million on practice assets....Even Though Theo Ratliff/ Kurt Thomas are old, they both avg over 15 min per game last year.....DJ's salary would be better spent on someone Phil trusts to play 15 mins per game....Pau and Kobe have to be fresh and Andrew has to be healthy in order for the Lakers to 3 peat.....The coming 3 peat will be a testament of the Laker team much like game 7 vs Celts.....Kobe will win his second league MVP and be in the top 3 in scoring but his mins will be down and efficiency up......IMO the last 4 roster spots could determine whether the Lakers core are fresh or tired going into the playoffs.....DJ, Powell, Adam, and may Sasha have to go to bring consistent contributors who can maintain and grow leads during the 15-20 mins they are asked to play.

I think our best bet as our back up center would be Kurt Thomas. He started in the playoffs last season for the Milwaukee Bucks and he did a pretty dam good job out there as the Bucks almost knocked off the heavely favorite Atlanta Hawks. He has great playoff experience playing for the Suns, Spurs and Bucks. He is a strong dude who I believe wounldnt mind putting one of the 3 queens on their back. He would also give PJ confidence to play him not like DJ who it looks like PJ doesnt trust.

>>>How abourt Walton playing tons of GARBAGE TIME? Easiest to make a basket.

Luke's highest shooting percentage for a season of his career was for 2006-07, the year he started.

When all you get to play is garbage time, it's a lot harder to get into a rhythm, particularly if you're a pass first, low volume shooter like Luke.

Posted by: LongTimeLakerFan | July 17, 2010 at 01:29 PM

---
That was also his contract year. And we remember the extra hours he spent at the gym with his U of AZ buddy, Richard Jefferson, to elevate his game. As a result, his numbers go up and he gets the big contract. But after the contract, those extra hours at gym became history...

We saw the same phenomenon with Sasha, who put those extra hours at the gym to elevate his game during his contract season. Well, this is Sasha's contract season again and he will surely put those extra hours again at the gym in the hopes of elevating his game and getting another contract extension.

And so the cycle continues...

Snake-
Unless Sasha absolutely blows up this season (over .400 3pt%, solid D, and very limited bonehead plays), I don't see him being re-signed. Especially with the lockout looming, Sasha's probably headed back to Euroball. Where, coincidentally, he's not very highly regarded either.

htj - that stands for

my
Hyperbole is a
Total
Joke

Lunatic -

Go ahead and take a break for another 20 odd years for when your squad becomes relevant again.

Doc Never won squat prior to '08, hasn't won since, and won't win again.

McHale Looks like Frankenstein and is arguably the worst GM ever.
He took a crappier deal from his former teammate to restore the kelts to contention.

If the '08 finals were whistled like the '06 finals, they would've had a different outcome.

I think you need to look up the definition of hyperbole. Now run along a crawl under your green rock. The 2026 season will be here soon enough, but in the meantime you can chant MVP for whatever Laker superstar is playing in your building up until then.

@htj - Sasha was shooting .437 during his contract year. That's what extra practice in the gym does to his game. Unfortunately he and Luke only put in those extra practice hours when it is their contract season.

Snake-
I didn't say it was impossible for Sasha, but it looks like his minutes are going to be more limited this time around. Especially if they reach a deal with SB. Even if he does get career numbers, he's no more than a 3mil/yr type player under this CBA. If they really clamp down on contracts like they're hinting, it'll be half that. Roughly what he's been worth these past two seasons.

As for Luke, when his contract comes up (unless he blesses us with retirement), he'll be lucky to be healthy enough to set foot in a gym, much less put extra time in.

It is obvious to anyone who is living in reality that Miami has the best Big 3 in basketball (They have 2 of the best three players in the game and an all star starter this year)...However their weakness will be their bench ....therefore the Lakers bench has to be far superior to the heat....Boston is following this same formula ......Wade/Miller/LBJ/Bosh/Big Z/ Chalmers is a heck of a top 6 players ...but J. Anthony/J. Howard/Jwad Williams/Jason Williams/ J. Maglore are very pedestrian ......For this reason I say the Lakers should consider making an offer to TMAC and consider Shaq b/c the heat will be around until Kobe begins to age out in 5 seasons......I really believe the Lakers could hold off the heat and the possible super team in NYC for at least 2 more titles......Only depth will defeat the heat.....and DJ/Shannon/Sasha/LO/Luke/ Powell isn't quite depth IMO....Again very good guys but not much better than the heat bench w/ the exception of LO' rebounding and versatility ..... Ego's and past drama have to go out the window....Kobe is the best but not better than Wade/LBJ together .....If that means they have to forgive and put together a deal to bring in Shaq to teach the young bucks a lesson then so be it......or if it means taking a chance on TMAC for the vet min...so be it....... The worst thing that could happen to the NBA is to have LBJ piggie backing a supper team to catch up w/ Kobe/MJ/ Magic in the ring dept. ...... The Lakers have 4 more season to rule the West and possibly the league ....after then......Super teams will run the league ...the basketball haves and have-nots .....Lets not fool ourselves Laker fam, the pedestrian bench play from the last 3 championship runs won't get it done....there are BOLD moves to made and Chips to be won!! Get it done Mitch you have 2-3 more cookies in the jar...LOL

Lakers4Life | July 17, 2010 at 12:48 PM

------------

Is that you Craig...sup buddy...

Haven't heard from Laker Tom for awhile........Must be on vacation. We do need a backup center,Pau plays to many minutes!!

What about Josh Howard? He's still available for grab! If he could regain his form, he would be a great bargain to have for the remaining MLE money!

I prefer the Lakers to sign TMac and/or Kurt Thomas over UPS and DJ. UPS had his moment but, IMO, didn't show enough grits to warrant a contract form the Lakers. Kurt has adequate experience to relieve our big men.

htj has even more hate in him than Jon K. Didn't think that was possible. Next time, check your facts. The Garnett deal was FIVE for one, including 2 first round picks. So, seven for one. I guess Odom and Bynum wasn't good enough. Really stinks when ONE time the lakers don't get their own way, doesn't it. I mean it's not like we traded the contract from the COACH of another team for Pau Gasol.....

Jerry Sloan has ZERO rings. That make him a bad coach? Doc has had three good teams and been to the Finals twice going 1-1. Many coach's would kill for that.

Really love your "McHale looks like Frankenstein" comment. It's the second time you've used it. You're either unoriginal, or 12. I search my mind for a witty comeback..........ah Kurt Rambis looks like Clark Kent?? Naw, I can't go there, he was a good player. And, just to be accurate, it wasn't Frankenstein, it was Hermann Munster - get your "facts" straight.

Hyperbole (pronounced /haɪˈpɜrbəli/,[1] from ancient Greek ὑπερβολή 'exaggeration'), is a rhetorical device in which statements are exaggerated. It may be used to evoke strong feelings or to create a strong impression, but is not meant to be taken literally. (Wikipedia)

Hence, the McHale comment!!! It is exaggerated, it evoked an emotion, and I don't take you seriously.................hyperbole.

Lastly, I'm SURE that if a few more fouls were called in Game 6 of the 2008 Finals, that would have gotten the lakers those 39 points they needed to catch up.......uh huh, yep, you really know your basketball....even lakers fans are laughing at you.............what a clown this guy is!!

Have a nice day!!

Lastly, I'm SURE that if a few more fouls were called in Game 6 of the 2008 Finals, that would have gotten the lakers those 39 points they needed to catch up.......uh huh, yep, you really know your basketball....even lakers fans are laughing at you.............what a clown this guy is!! Posted by: Giant Green Bald-Headed Lunatic | July 17, 2010 at 05:10 PM
*
Giant, you're still my boy! Thanks for helping me out of that "lil Trouble" that time. Just to let you know I'm still alive and kicking & thanks for the nice comment.

Repost just for you, GGBHL...don't want you to think I forgot you.

GGBHL...

What's the matter...does the truth hurt? Between gm. 1 and gm.2 of the Finals, Rivers went on a campaign complaining about how his team was being victimized by the referees. He and Thibodeau whine and complain on the sidelines like nobody's business. Phil does use some gamesmanship in his remarks, but I've never seen him run out onto center court while the game was in progress to call a time out! Doc does not respect the coach's box and is constantly on the court.

And your namesake, KG, is one of the worst examples of sportsmanship in the entire league. Everytime he blocks a shot, he screams out "get that S**T outta here!" He does that every time! Real nice for the youngsters sitting courtside. Pierce...declaring himself the world's greatest player? That's for others to say, not him. I could go on and on, but I won't. I'm from the Bronx so I'll keep it short and sweet. BOSTON CELTICS SUCK!!!!

And, I'd enjoy having lunch with htj or any other Laker fan on this site. We would have a great time trying to figure out why trolls love this blog so much.

Posted by: bronxlakerfan | July 17, 2010 at 05:34 PM

bronx - PLEASE forget me!! I'm not your type and I'm married!!

OK, Lunatic....You're forgotten.

LTLF,

Thanks for responding to my post in a constructive, non-defensive way and adding further thoughts on top of it. All too rare on the internet these days. Definitely agreed that there are some ways in which Luke is more efficient.

ron for a lot of those years was a number 2 option in the offense when Luke never was a main option in the Lakers offense and lot his shots he was never defended by the opposing teams top defensive players.

don't get me wrong Luke has had quality time on Laker championship teams which is why he got the contract he did but he has been on teams that were way more talented than the teams Ron has been on in the past so the comparison really isn't a fair one.

I think the laker management is not pursuing for a back up Center right now.they must be contented in the performance of Caracter in the summer league coz he can play against any bigs in the summer league.He can play the PF/C quite well.That's maybe the reason why the lakers is not very keen of adding a back up center for the team right now.

For me,the best thing that the lakers should do is to get a decent shooter.someone who can really spread the floor for us.

We have a better rotation that last seasons line up:

STARTERS: BACK UP TEAM:

PG: Fisher PG: Blake/Vuyacic
SG: Kobe SG: Brown/Vuyacic
SF: Artest SF: Walton/Ebanks/Kobe
PF: Gasol PF: Odom/Caracter
C: Bynum C: Gasol/Caracter

You have noticed that I placed Kobe in the Back up team as SF coz just like what they did last season where they play small and they let Kobe play the SF.This year they can do it with Blake at the point,Vuyacic or Brown at the SG,Kobe will be the SF,Odom will be the PF and Gasol or Caracter at the Center position.With that lineup,they will be a very quick team and a better shooting lineup.

"Sorry -- typo on Walton's FGA (but points per shot attempt was correct in that post). Should read:

Walton: 2331 points / 2087 fga 1.117 points per shot attempt

Artest: 10567 points / 8933 fga 1.183 points per shot attempt


Posted by: Showtime | July 17, 2010 at 10:56 AM
"

The points per shot attempt stat really doesn't say much at all. It just makes players that get fouled a lot seem more efficient than they really are.

Say Player A takes 10 shots and makes them all, scoring 20 points. That's 10 FGA for 20 points, averaging 2.00 points per shot attempt.

Player B takes 20 shots, gets fouled on 10 of them, and goes 5-10 (10 pts) from the floor and 11-20 from the line. Only the 10 shots that didn't result in fouls will actually count as FGA. That's 10 FGA for 21 points, averaging 2.05 points per shot attempt.

Player B is shown by your statistics to be the more efficient scorer, even though it took him twice as many possessions to score only 1 more point.

Sure, this is an extreme case but what I'm showing is that the "shots per field goal attempts" comparisons leave out a lot of information. A "points per possession" comparison would tell a lot more of the story, but it'd be very hard to factor in the free throws, turnovers, etc that would be needed to calculate this.


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