Lakers weigh significance of five-game trip
With the Lakers embarking on a five-game trip beginning Wednesday against San Antonio, Coach Phil Jackson initially saw it as something that could "make or break" the team's standings in the Western Conference. The Lakers had enjoyed remaining the top seed throughout the season, but three consecutive losses in early March further tightened the race among Denver, Dallas and Utah.
Since then the Lakers (52-18) have reeled off six consecutive victories and have a pretty firm standing in the West, holding a five-game lead over the Nuggets (47-23), a five-and-a-half game cushion against the Mavericks (46-23) and a seven-game advantage over the Jazz (45-25). With Denver and Dallas losing Saturday to Milwaukee and Boston, respectively, Jackson shared Monday that he no longer feels this upcoming trip bears as much significance in the standings.
After still expressing some frustration over the Lakers' second-half letdown in their 99-92 victory Sunday against the Washington Wizards, Jackson is mindful his changed perspective could reduce the urgency the team could have during its trip.
"I hope the players don't take that as an [excuse]," said Jackson, who gave the team a day off from practice Monday partly to help conserve energy. "They know we really want to establish our road game, and we had a real good road record the last couple of years."
The Lakers last four championships featured solid road records, including the 1999-2000 team (31-10), 2000-2001 team (31-10), 2001-2002 team (24-17) and 2008-09 (29-12). And those championships seasons also entailed the Lakers ending the regular season pretty strongly. Consider the Lakers' record in the last month during those title runs: 1999-2000 team (20-4), 2000-2001 team (18-7), 2001-2002 team (18-7) and the 2008-2009 team (17-5).
Meanwhile, the current Lakers are in a sort of standstill. Though they have won three consecutive road games, the Lakers aren't satisfied with their 20-13 road record. Despite going on a six-game winning streak, most of the team is far from pleased with its current play.
Of course, these road records and strong finishes don't necessarily guarantee post-season success. For example, the 2007-2008 team that lost in the NBA Finals to Boston had a 27-14 road record. Lakers guard Kobe Bryant also brought up a good point that the late-season success doesn't always make the playoffs uch easier. With the exception the 2000-2001 team that went 15-1 in the playoffs, the Lakers faced hefty challenges the other seasons.
Consider the Lakers went through four series that weren't decided until the last game, including the 1999-2000 team's first-round victory over Sacramento in five games and its West Finals victory over Portland in seven, the 2001-2002 team's West Finals victory to Sacramento in seven, and the 2008-2009 team's West semifinals victory to Houston in seven.
"I think it helps," Bryant said about the team ending the season strongly. "You want to go into the playoffs feeling like you're playing well. All the years we've won except for the second championship run, we've had tough playoff series. We were pushed to the brink of elimination even in the first round. We went into the playoffs playing extremely well. It really doesn't matter too much. That second run we had was one of those situations where we got in a zone as a team and stayed in it for 16 games."
(A quick aside: In the video below, Bryant teased The Times' Broderick Turner for wearing a New Orleans Saints hat, suggesting he became a bandwagon fan after their Super Bowl title run. Turner told Bryant he's a New Orleans native, something Bryant jokingly refused to believe.)
-- Mark Medina
Follow the L.A. Times Lakers blog on Twitter. E-mail the Lakers blog at mgmedin@gmail.com
KB Blitz,
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/366042-is-kobe-bryant-better-than-larry-bird-and-where-does-he-rank-all-time?utm_source=newsletter
snippet:
Kobe has played in the era that is most saturated with talent. Go back in history and you will never find an era that had more great—potentially all-time great—players than the era in which Kobe played. Shaq, Duncan, Wade, LeBron, McGrady, Carter, Roy, Nowitzki, Nash, Howard, Garnett—Kobe, for this era, has been considered better than all of them.
Posted by: hobbitmage | March 22, 2010 at 05:16 PM
so the lack of urgency is going to be the reason the west east west east west east lakers now cavs win. come on this is already in stone not the lakers fault
Posted by: hatercreater | March 22, 2010 at 05:46 PM
BLOG CRUE
I am excited to see our Lakers continue their win streak. My brother in law MyChal from Pasadena is visiting and so far we're undefeated since his stay.
This ROAD trip should be better than last.
Colorado loves our World Champion Lakers!
Posted by: Hugo Boss | March 22, 2010 at 05:49 PM
Love the blog.
I think the nmbers regarding road record and last month record are in the wrong positions.
Just a small detail.
Posted by: Dave Rosenzweig | March 22, 2010 at 06:26 PM
So many lost posts these days. What is up? I touch one wrong button and this entire site vanishes. Over and over and over unto the ending of time.
Maybe it's new computer time. I don't know. But my long lost post was about our two second round picks this year. We'll have to pick project players, but if we look overseas for tall, long, agile combo gaurds, we'll find a handful, even in the late second round. I'm excited about the possibilities.
Wes
Posted by: wesjoenixon | March 22, 2010 at 06:33 PM
I know we're all thinking it, any AB updates...!?
Posted by: job | March 22, 2010 at 06:41 PM
Here's my take on the significance of the lack of urgency and going on cruise mode almost every single game. If you've ever played at a high competitive level, the one thing you remember about the playoffs is the SUSTAINED urgency of every game and the significance of the TIMING considerations of the greatly increased TEMPO of every game. There are no lazy quarters. There are no easy offensive set ups and defensive covers. Everything is accelerated. Passes. Cuts. Box outs. Board crashes. Contested shots.
A team that enters the playoffs without having played entire games recently at such accelerated tempos simply can't have their team timing in sync and attuned to that kind of tempo. No matter how many talented guys are on the team. No matter how many "good quarters" it had. No matter how many wins they eked out getting into the playoffs.
Bottom line: the Lakers have NOT gotten into playoff shape and developed playoff urgency and timing. Are they good enough to turn it on magically? I sure hope so. Do I think the probability of that happening is very good? No I don't.
Posted by: CornerJ | March 22, 2010 at 06:50 PM
LAKER TRUTH… “The formula for the past two years was for Kobe to be aggressive and force the double/triple teams. Once the help came, Kobe would punish the doubles with his passing, leaving his teammates to operate 4 on 3 (or sometimes 2). I see NO reason to change this winning formula.”
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Well said, LT. That was as accurate and succinct definition of what a super star like Kobe means to team play and strategy as I have heard. We not agree on everything but I definitely appreciate and respect your basketball acumen and writing abilities. Ironically, your comments also highlight what Kobe needs to do to make the strategy work – namely, force teams to double and triple team him by torching them and then make them pay the piper when they do double and triple team him by hitting the open man. While he is not perfect, I think Kobe does a great job walking the line - MVP great.
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I also agree with comments that Phil is obviously challenging the team with his statement that they should go 5-0 on the upcoming road trip. As you surmised, he also sees this road trip as the turning point in the season. Time to walk the walk without excuses. I only hope we can get everybody back to full or close to full health before the playoffs. Count me in on the 5-0 prediction for the roadie. We are a good enough team to do that without Andrew Bynum and with a right-handed Lamar Odom. And by the time we face the really physical teams, Drew will hopefully be back in the lineup.
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DAVE … I didn’t get a chance to respond to your comments about Andrew over the weekend as I had to make sure to keep Mrs. LakerTom happy and satisfied. I did see your comments and appreciated the encouraging words. I am just so elated that Drew did not tear his Achilles. Having torn both my left and right Achilles, I was sure when Drew said he felt a pop that he had torn it and not strained it because I remember that pop very well, as I am sure other Achilles tear victims can attest. Anyway, now I’m just hoping that Drew is ready to go in a couple of weeks with no lingering problems.
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I am sure you were as happy as I was with the recent political developments. We seem to be moving into a social period or phase of extreme polarization. What used to be a battle between the haves and the have-nots has now transformed into a war between the GHFers and the GHEers. You see it in our politics and our rhetoric on the LA Times Lakers Blog where certain bloggers publically and eagerly embrace negativity and vitriol as their image. Unfortunately, now they will have bear the humility of the nation embracing health care reform AND the Lakers repeating as the 2010 NBA champions.
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TOM
Posted by: LakerTom | March 22, 2010 at 07:24 PM
Art-FL,
I've also had the pinched nerve thing. I've never broken a bone other than 3 cracked skulls durring my younger days, but nothing is like a pinched nerve. Mine came instantly, reaching for the remote and 4 months later I was able to walk w/o a cane. This can end a career easily. Very easily, because once that nerve moves over to the bone, all it has to do it tuch it and you're life is hell.
And why is Andrew so happy right now? I think it's because he has a week off with no stress. This makes me think (again) that Andrew is not wired to be a count-on-me NBA player. Maybe I'm wrong, but ndrew doesn't come close to being a 4th quarter, prime time player. Even his great 4 game run that he just had was against teams with no centers. But, lets not bash the guy. Just...if only he had Kobe's mind. Really, he's smart, but he might have one of the worst basketball IQs in the game today. He doesn't make other players any better, he can't pass out of the post at all, he doesn't seem to thing about ayone other than himself on the court, and depends SOOOOO much on other playrs to set him in the paint. But...lest not hit a guy when he;s down.
Wes
Wes
Posted by: wesjoenixon | March 22, 2010 at 07:30 PM
DFish
"Fisher was bad before this season started...but this has got to be an all time low to play as bad as he has on a possible championship team and still be in the starting rotation. Who other than Jackson would still be going with this guy?"
Dude, people have been questioning Phil's rotations/decisions for years. Yes even me at times. But remember this is the coach with 10 championship rings, I think he may know a little bit more than any of us what it takes to win a championship. While we may not always understand it I think he usually has his reasons! That being said, Fish is still by far our best option at pg. The only "better option" we have is Kobe, but that would detract from his natural scoring role in the wing of our offense. Fish should definitely be coming off the bench, but until the offseason we don't have anything else.
Posted by: Troy B | March 22, 2010 at 07:40 PM
CornerJ, I agree with you.
Could it be the Lakers are burned out?
There is a reason why repeating is so difficult and uncommon in team sports.
The Lakers having been the only team that has played in the Finals the last 2 years means they have played more games than any other team. Kobe and Pau both played for their national teams.
Even Showtime only had one repeat championship.
Could it be we were spoiled by the 3peat in early 2000s?
NBA playoffs are such a high level of competition that there is a distinct possibility that the Lakers are simply running out of gas.
Posted by: LakerinBC | March 22, 2010 at 07:44 PM
Mark Medina sure seems like he's in a bad mood today.
It happens.
What do we play for? RINGS!!!
Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.
GO LAKERS!!!
Posted by: Jon K. | March 22, 2010 at 07:47 PM
Mark
I used to read this blog a lot, but left because I was simply too busy. When I came back recently, I was like "where are the kbros and who is this medina guy," but I quickly realized what a great job you are doing and now this is the first place I come to for any news. Keep up the great work.
Posted by: Troy B | March 22, 2010 at 07:48 PM
Troy B - Thanks a lot for the nice words. I'm honored that you enjoy the blog.
MM
Posted by: Mark Medina | March 22, 2010 at 07:49 PM
Jon K - Why do you think I had a bad day today? I actually had a really good day. Did some work in the morning, went to practice, did some more writing, hit the gym. I mean I got no complaints lol
MM
Posted by: Mark Medina | March 22, 2010 at 07:50 PM
I guess I'm the only one who's not down on the Lakers for their effort vs. the Bullets. I agree they have been lackluster at times recently. But for this game, we were up by 28 and the it was never in jeopardy. Why do they have to beat them by 20? Sit Kobe and cruise. I have no problem with that.
Posted by: b rhet
Hey b rhet...I don't think they are called the Bullets anymore !!
Posted by: DFish | March 22, 2010 at 08:04 PM
MM,
I think the road records/last month records are backward.
Other than that, kind sir, you're doing a bang-up job.
Go Lake Show!
Posted by: The Outlaw | March 22, 2010 at 08:10 PM
Wow. We're getting pretty close to the playoffs.
I sure hope everyone gets healthy. I'm increasingly concerned about Luke. I know that a lot of people hate Luke and that I'm a bit of a fan, but, for some reason, I'm strangely concerned about this in my gut.
What do we play for? RINGS!!!
Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.
GO LAKERS!!!!
Posted by: Jon K. | March 22, 2010 at 08:16 PM
"I don't think they are called the Bullets anymore!!"
LOL DFish, that's hilarious!
I noticed that too! You would think that after what happened with Arenas earlier this season someone would not make that mistake.
Posted by: Troy B | March 22, 2010 at 08:16 PM
Mavericks lost to Hornets today on the road. That pushed them back by another 0.5 game, and are now behind us by 6 games, with 12 games left for each team. (52-18, 46-24)
So, its enough if we go 7-5 in the rest 12 games, we would still be ahead of Mavericks (given they go 12-0 for the rest 12) However, Nuggets are only 5 behind, so if we go 7-5, and they go 12-0, then we'd be tied, and the tie-breaker would be used (I think they're ahead on this).
Nuggets play the Knicks and Celtics on the road on back-to-back (with Celtics on the 2nd night of back to back) If they lose that game, then 7-5 would do for us as well.
So, will 7-5 do?? Kings, Clippers, Wolves, Blazers(at Staples) would make the 4 out of the 7 needed. We also play Spurs and Jazz at home. Win one of these, and at least 2 on the next 5 game road trip, we got the WC home court in our pocket all but done :)
Posted by: Ruud van Nistelrooy | March 22, 2010 at 08:27 PM
Hey thanks for the catch guys. I made the corrections. MM
Posted by: Mark Medina | March 22, 2010 at 08:30 PM
I hate Kobe.
His beaty little squinty saucy eyes, the way he licks his lips, the way he plays with his face, the way he moves too much...
Posted by: Curry | March 22, 2010 at 08:42 PM
Jon K - I'm totally with you on Luke. I remember back in like 2007(last full year with Kwame/Smush) we started out the year HOT (like 26-14 or something?) even through a lot of injuries. Then of all things the Luke injury sent us derailing! Even though Luke has never been the same player since that injury, he runs the offense well and we always seem to play better when he is in. Yes, Luke has major limitations as a player, but he is one of the few who knows his limitation and plays within them. When he is healthy he also always seem to be our best 3 point shooter (always has a high percentage) for some reason.
Posted by: Troy B | March 22, 2010 at 08:44 PM
Mark Medina,
You've been testy today, brother.
It's okay. I get testy too. No big deal... and sometimes it is good to challenge people when they are foolish and immature, so that may be part of it too.
What do we play for? RINGS!!!
Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.
GO LAKERS!!!
Posted by: Jon K. | March 22, 2010 at 08:44 PM
Man it really sucks living outside of LA and not being able to afford league pass. I never seem to be able to watch the games(I would have to DVR most of them so I can only watch a few streaming).
Posted by: Troy B | March 22, 2010 at 08:46 PM
Jon K - I'm not being testy, which I'm sure will make you conclude that I am being testy lol. I was really just outlining my case and explaining my viewpoints. Just don't want you to worry that suddenly I turned into the Incredible Hulk or something.
MM
Posted by: Mark Medina | March 22, 2010 at 09:06 PM
"Go back in history and you will never find an era that had more great—potentially all-time great—players than the era in which Kobe played. "
So without further ado:
50. Eddie Johnson
49. Jim Paxson
48. Andrew Toney
47. Jeff Malone
46. Norm Nixon
45. Jamaal Wilkes
44. Kelly Tripucka
43. Brad Daugherty
42. Reggie Theus
41. Gus Williams
40. Patrick Ewing
39. Nate Archibald
38. Terry Cummings
37. Tom Chambers
36. Kiki Vandeweghe
35. Dan Roundfield
34. Otis Birdsong
33. Rolando Blackman
32. Karl Malone
31. Alvin Robertson
30. Buck Williams
29. Bernard King
28. Maurice Cheeks
27. Mark Aguirre
26. Clyde Drexler
25. Walter Davis
24. Dennis Johnson
23. James Worthy
22. Artis Gilmore
21. Ralph Sampson
20. Charles Barkley
19. Marques Johnson
18. Bill Laimbeer
17. Michael Ray Richardson
16. Sidney Moncrief
15. Kevin McHale
14. Dominique Wilkins
13. Hakeem Olajuwon
12. Michael Jordan
11. Jack Sikma
10. George Gervin
9. Robert Parish
8. Adrian Dantley
7. Julius Erving
6. Isiah Thomas
5. Alex English
4. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
3. Magic Johnson
2. Moses Malone
1. Larry Bird
Hobbitmage, as great as Kobe is to the 2000's era the talent besides Tim and Shaq and the rest. The 80's were more stacked this this era or the 90's.
And No it's not yet time to crown Kobe over Larry. You may not have seen the NBA in the 80's but Larry could flat outplay almost every athletic person that tried to guard him. He owned Jordan, Pippen (shooting a game winner over both once), out dueled a crazy athletic wing in Dominque, and it took a real good damn defender (Cooper) to slow Larry down until the Pistons. For all the Michael Jordan comparisons Kobe has....his mindset is more of Larry Bird's as a flat out killer if seen as arrogant (much like Larry Legend was). If it weren't for Larry's back problems he would have been an elite player for a long time. Just look at Dirk Nowitzki and imagine having him more heart and an arrogant attitude and you would get Larry.
In terms of individual game I could see Kobe being better than Bird though Bird had accomplished more than Kobe (as evident as many would say Bird is the best SF of all time and that includes over guys like Dr. J). You have to wait before comparing them to legends especially one who I rank number 6 of all time greats.
Posted by: KB Blitz | March 22, 2010 at 09:10 PM
Who the **** does Kobe think he is?
God, I hate the guy. Refusing to believe that someone is NOT from somewhere just because he's never mentioned it?
What the ****?
Do you know what the real issue is surrounding Kobe?
The guy is simply bored with life. He's bored with the routine. He's bored with Newport Beach. He's bored with the same routine he finds with his wife at home. He's bored with the same, "what's up Kobe" comments from fans spotting him in public. He's bored with safety.
He's bored.
He hates doing these casual obligatory interviews. He hates sitting there, listening to questions that he really doesn't think about unless someone asks him.
He hates himself for answering the same customary questions the same way day after day.
So what Kobe does, as a result, is he likes to keep interviews light-hearted at times by diffusing the atmosphere with off comments about this or that.
In this case, Broderick's hat.
This is fine.
But refusing to believe that Broderick isn't from New Orleans because he simply never mentioned it during the course of the year...
What the ****?
Kobe's worldview is so jaded. It's so commonplace. He tries to be different, but doesn't want to be different.
He tries to be clever with his answers just because he wants to be different than the garden variety NBA basketball player.
Kobe's easy to figure out.
Kobe reminds me of Tamra from the REAL HOUSEWIVES OF ORANGE COUNTY.
He is an pseudo intellectual, personally insecure fault finder, under the guise of a star NBA athlete.
Posted by: Curry | March 22, 2010 at 09:10 PM
Many of you are taking on the personality of Kobe. This is what I've realized through your posts.
Posted by: Curry | March 22, 2010 at 09:14 PM
"I am sure you were as happy as I was with the recent political developments. We seem to be moving into a social period or phase of extreme polarization. What used to be a battle between the haves and the have-nots has now transformed into a war between the GHFers and the GHEers. You see it in our politics and our rhetoric on the LA Times Lakers Blog where certain bloggers publically and eagerly embrace negativity and vitriol as their image. Unfortunately, now they will have bear the humility of the nation embracing health care reform AND the Lakers repeating as the 2010 NBA champions."
Really, many words can be said in response to this, but I'll let the words themselves demonstrate the lack of class, as well as common sense apparently, of certain people on this blog.
You would think that with age comes maturity and some measure of grace, but I guess that sadly isn't so in some cases, particularly among the Baby Boomers.
Posted by: EJK | March 22, 2010 at 09:18 PM
HOBBITMAGE… Man, you walked into that one. I knew the minute you posted that Blitz was smacking his lips in anticipation. Not only were there just as many great players in the 80’s but they were also concentrated on far fewer teams compared to how talent today has been diluted by expansion. The Magic/Kareem/Worthy Lakers and Bird/Parrish/McHale Celtics were examples.
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Furthermore, I think that true greatness requires competition with other great players. Bird made Magic better and vice versa. Same with Wilt and Russell. It’s why I hesitate to jump completely aboard the MJ bandwagon because he never had another truly great player to make him better. Maybe what he accomplished without another great player makes his greatness greater? Who knows. Maybe LeBron will give Kobe what Bird gave Magic and help him become even greater. Maybe. But think how much better the quality of play and entertainment would be if we cut the league back to 16 or even 24 teams. Of course, that will never happen, even if they lose money. But imagine it.
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TOM
Posted by: LakerTom | March 22, 2010 at 10:02 PM
Hey guys (and gals), I think we've all gone brain dead here. I include my own recent posts (as clever as they seem when I write them at 6 am). I am soooooo tired of all the analysis of do the Lakers have the right stuff? It's all crap. Only how they play each quarter and each game and the final score is relevant. Maybe only the final score.
We write and talk about the Lakers in a vacuum as if they're the only team in the NBA, even though the post-season looms. We link articles and columns that all say pretty much the same thing (and say the same thing they said the day before). Go through the posts for the last few days. At least half of them are little different than the posts for weeks and months ago. Blogsync has become non-think.
Ruud van Nistelrooy has the right idea. Who's hot and who's not? What do the Lakers need to accomplish and who do they need to worry about and why?
Seriously, who's trending up and what does it mean when the playoff brackets are set. I sure want home court advantage if we play the Blazers in the first round.
Orlando is surging in the East. I want to follow that.
I want a close look at the Spurs bench vs our bench before Wednesday's game.
Attacking or defending D-Fish no longer interests me. Nor do I need another take or another video on his leadership.
I love this blog and I love all of you. But we can do better. Let's raise the bar. We want our team to. It's only right that we do the same thing ourselves.
Posted by: Rick Friedman | March 22, 2010 at 10:02 PM
Aloha Hobbit,
You picked the wrong game to rip the shooting. .529 as a team.
The good
Kobe 10-17
Pau 8-14
Ron 7-10
Shannon 4-7
Sasha 1-2
The Bad
Derek 1-4
Lamar 1-4
Jordan 2-6
Notice the bad only took 14 shots.
What Phil was referring to was the lack of energy that allowed a bad over matched team to score FIFTY NINE POINTS in the 2nd half! With 17 turn overs I might add. And on offense in the 4th when we scored a whopping 17 points the entire team just stood around. Phil was livid in the post game. No inside out, no swinging the ball, no semblance of the offense what so ever! Thats what Phil was ripping the players for. If you noticed in the 1st half, we moved, cut, and also established the post. All that movement led to rhythm shots. In the third quarter that effort started to go away and by the 4th it was non existent. I believe thats what Phil was talking about.
Aloha
MH
Posted by: michael h | March 22, 2010 at 10:10 PM
HOBBITMAGE… Sorry for the rambling but I guess the question, to which I am really not sure of the answer, is whether Magic or Bird were really greater than MJ. Had they not had to share rings, either might have won more than MJ’s 6. And what about Bill Russell? He has the most rings but never really gets considered in the GOAT discussions. I love Bynum. You love Dwight. Russ would spank either one of those if he were playing today. I may actually be changing my vote of GOAT from MJ to Magic. LOL. Not a hard thing for me to do since I was never really an MJ fan. What do you think?
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TOM
Posted by: LakerTom | March 22, 2010 at 10:27 PM
Posted by: JustaLakerFan
I think that is not a good way to compare. For instance Lakers gave away all but 7 of their 28 point lead and hung on to win. Counts as a win though. Now would this big lead vanish if AB was in and playing the way he has been playing lately? Or would this have been lopsided the whole game? Never know will we?
##################
I think the correct question is ... would the Lakers have ever built a 28 point lead with Bynum in the lineup.
Posted by: Troll Man | March 22, 2010 at 10:36 PM
EKJ… You’re right that my comments were a cheap shot – but unfortunately one that was well deserved by certain elements. But I do apologize because it was never meant specifically or generally for you. In fact, I have always respected and admired the fact that you obviously had as much passion for your politics as your Lakers and were never hesitant or reluctant to speak out but always did so with courtesy and intelligence and conviction. So my bad. I will try to find other outlets to vent my frustrations and stick to the game. Fair enough? :-)
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TOM
Posted by: LakerTom | March 22, 2010 at 10:40 PM
While I understand and agree with what Blitz and LT are saying, right now we def. have more greats and potential greats than we have had SINCE the 80's. And I think that it's a great thing and makes for much more entertaining bball. Yeah, the 80's had a lot of great players spread over less teams, the 90's and early 2000's were really lacking while incresing the number of teams. Even though I loved the Lakers 3-peat in the early 2000's, the comp was not very good. If we can manage to 3-peat right now it would be a much bigger deal. Think about if two of Lebron, Bosh and DWade hook up on the same team next year, We can have a great rivalry for the next few years between that team and the Lakers. That is something that has been really lacking in the NBA for some time. I would love to see multiple teams with multiple superstars again!
Posted by: Troy B | March 22, 2010 at 11:50 PM
LT
I have been saying for years that we can not ultimately have a GOAT for the exact reasons you are listing! I truly believe that Magic may have been better than MJ (that is, if their prime was at the same time and they had comparable teams Magic may have beaten MJ). Unfortunately it is a question that can never be fully answered. I give the same argument to people about Russell's rings, he may have been the best ever! It annoys me to no end when people try to annoint anyone the clearcut GOAT, whether it is Kobe, MJ, or whoever. It does make for some great conversations though:).
Posted by: Troy B | March 22, 2010 at 11:56 PM
Nice example of clown Ouchhhhhh gimmicky.
Indeed, thanks to the "Spanish female player" Paula Gasoft a mediocre team in recent years: the Los Angeles Lakers have won a final, and reached another. Not bad for a Spanish girl player soft truth.
Regarding the Beijing Olympics if the umpires had blown all the steps and the faults of American players, the result would have been entirely different.
Like in the future need more "soft Spanish girl players" not to embroider the ríduculo again. Indeed there is increasing among the best European players in the NBA. The NBA basketball is so simple that gives creeps. And the training of players and pusher tattooed like so much intellectual as you show that you are a country without education and respect for people.
To see if a train catches pathetic scarecrow.
Posted by: Escarpia | March 23, 2010 at 02:57 AM
There doesn't seem to be much concern about Lamar, but his injury troubles me. Especially it being his left shoulder and he being left handed. It certainly affects his shot (he said so). Might he try to avoid contact? We really need a good, healthy LO through the playoffs. These shoulder injuries can be slow to heal.
Is there any more info on his injury?
Is it expected to heal by the playoffs?
Posted by: Art - FL Laker Fan | March 23, 2010 at 04:06 AM
And why is Andrew so happy right now? I think it's because he has a week off with no stress. This makes me think (again) that Andrew is not wired to be a count-on-me NBA player. Maybe I'm wrong, but ndrew doesn't come close to being a 4th quarter, prime time player. Even his great 4 game run that he just had was against teams with no centers. But, lets not bash the guy.
Just...
if only he had Kobe's mind.
Really, he's smart, but he might have one of the worst basketball IQs in the game today. He doesn't make other players any better, he can't pass out of the post at all, he doesn't seem to thing about ayone other than himself on the court, and depends SOOOOO much on other playrs to set him in the paint. But...lest not hit a guy when he;s down.
Wes
Posted by: wesjoenixon | March 22, 2010 at 07:30 PM
If only he had Kobes mind indeed.
If he did, we would have another Shaq/Kobe problem only worse as Shaq didn't even have Kobes mind.
If only every Laker had Kobes mind.
But then, imagine them trying to get along, lol.
Imagine a team full of Kobes trying to play together, would it even be possible?
What a nightmare that would be.
Posted by: Art - FL Laker Fan | March 23, 2010 at 04:15 AM
All right.....
Michael H
you wrote: You picked the wrong game to rip the shooting. .529 as a team.
The good
Kobe 10-17
Pau 8-14
Ron 7-10
Shannon 4-7
Sasha 1-2
The Bad
Derek 1-4
Lamar 1-4
Jordan 2-6
Notice the bad only took 14 shots.
my response: We're obviously not talking about the same thing. The shooting
percentage of the team .has nothing to do with our conversation. Our
conversation was about certain players shooting problems. Period.
You linked the shooting percentages of certain players to their injuries.
I was demonstrating that they were shooting *very* poorly before the
injuries. Again, the shooting percentage of the team was not the topic of
our conversation.
To LakerTom - :)
To KB Blitz,
1st. Thank you for responding.
2nd. I posted that snippet to get a response from you. I don't think I have
much of an opinion on which era's stars were better. I think that world class
athletes will play to the level of competition. I have a hard time thinking that
Wilt wouldn't be able to play today or that Shaq wouldn't have been able to
play then.
I do believe the majority of players were more fundamentally skilled.
3rd. you wrote: In terms of individual game I could see Kobe being better than Bird though Bird had accomplished more than Kobe (as evident as many would say Bird is the best SF of all time and that includes over guys like Dr. J). You have to wait before comparing them to legends especially one who I rank number 6 of all time greats.
my response: Actually, the article *specifically* states that you are wrong.
The article *specifically* states that the only disparity is in the MVP awards
& also states why that is not a factor in the discussion. In the 2005-2006
season, Kobe was robbed. 2006-2007 Kobe was robbed. Last year, Kobe
was robbed. We have seen clear indications of the NBA marketing machine
is firmly behind crowing LBJ as the best player to have ever played and
neither of us think he is. The MVP is 80% popularity & 20% basketball.
LakerTom,
you wrote: The Magic/Kareem/Worthy Lakers and Bird/Parrish/McHale Celtics were examples.
-
Furthermore, I think that true greatness requires competition with other great players. Bird made Magic better and vice versa. Same with Wilt and Russell. It’s why I hesitate to jump completely aboard the MJ bandwagon because he never had another truly great player to make him better. Maybe what he accomplished without another great player makes his greatness greater? Who knows. Maybe LeBron will give Kobe what Bird gave Magic and help him become even greater. Maybe. But think how much better the quality of play and entertainment would be if we cut the league back to 16 or even 24 teams. Of course, that will never happen, even if they lose money. But imagine it.
my response:
1. Hola
2. In your comparison of teams, you're looking at things from the end of
their career vs. the beginning of their career. So let's say that the Lakers
manage to win 3 of the next 5 championships. Pau will *NEVER* wear the
"soft" label again. He will be lauded as the best Spanish/European player
to ever play the game. He'll have more rings than most of the "GREAT" big
men who have ever played the game. Lamar Odom will become an all-star
and will be in conversations for the best 6th-man to ever play the game.
[ note: I'm not saying I agree. I'm saying people will be discussing it. ]
Kobe will be deemed *BETTER* than MJ and only a few in the minority
will deny it.
I have a different take on two superstars making each other better. I
actually like having the younger crowd in the east. I like having
Dwight battle LBJ battle D-Wade for the right to play Kobe & lose.
I'm content if LBJ never makes it back and the Bobcats make it to the
finals or Atlanta or whoever. As long as the Lakers keeps winning Kobe
will be seen beating the *YOUNGER* NBA superstars at the height of
their physical gifts. That will force everyone to acknowledge that Kobe
is the best.
you wrote: I guess the question, to which I am really not sure of the answer, is whether Magic or Bird were really greater than MJ. Had they not had to share rings, either might have won more than MJ’s 6. And what about Bill Russell? He has the most rings but never really gets considered in the GOAT discussions. I love Bynum. You love Dwight. Russ would spank either one of those if he were playing today. I may actually be changing my vote of GOAT from MJ to Magic. LOL. Not a hard thing for me to do since I was never really an MJ fan. What do you think?
my response: to me, being the GOAT has less to do with STATS & more
about *WHAT* you do with what you *HAVE*.
In terms of skill: Kareem, Magic, MJ, Kobe. If KB Blitz spouts a ton of stats
at me, there are probably any numbers who should be in contention, but
those are mine today. Kareem - he had longevity and won every award
possible. I think. :) Magic, could play & dominate every position on the
floor. MJ - he's won every award imaginable & the awards attest to his skill.
You don't get DPOY as a popularity contest. Kobe is pushing double-digits
on the NBA defense while crushing the offensive side. He's got mad skillz
and continues to refine them.
In terms of winning: It's less about if you win the whole thing and more
about how you got there. Kobe taking Smush, Kwame & LO to within 1 game
of beating the Suns is more impressive to me than LBJ winning a series in the
East. This is the place where everyone says either MJ or Russell get's their
edge. In the bulls vs. phx series, I can't tell you that MJ was better than
Chuck. I can tell you that the Bulls were better than the Suns. W/o Pippen
we wouldn't be having the discussion about MJ being better than Dr. J.
re: Russell spanking Dwight. When? How? To clarify: How old is Russell
& how old is Dwight when this spanking happens. What do you mean by
spanking? To outrebound? Score? Blocked shots? Fouls? Who are
Russell's teammates? i.e. Are you bringing back his whole team or you
going to let him play on the Nets or on the Hawks?
Dwight is the most athletic big man to play the game since Wilt. He's not
nearly as skilled/polished as Wilt. Russell isn't muscling Dwight anywhere
that Dwight doesn't want to go.
To be honest, I think that any conversation about the GOAT will change
over the next 3 years. There are 2 reasons:
1. LBJ. The NBA is determined to give him this thing.
2. Kobe. If the Lakers win 3 more championships, he'll have 7 wins &
2 losses. 15+ all-star games. 14+ nba all defense. blah. blah.blah.
You're going to have to give it to him on his VOLUME of work.
18 years of CRUSHIN' folk & he'll only be 35. Nobody will have done it
better for longer.
Yes, I would love to see the NBA reduce teams and make the teams better.
The basketball would be amazing.
Posted by: hobbitmage | March 23, 2010 at 04:26 AM
Before Pippen and Ho Grant, Michael's Bulls couldn't win a thing. When Larry and Magic were in their prime no one ever thought Michael was anything but a dunker and scorer (like Dominique). Anytime we argue about GOAT we must agree upon a given set of criteria (scoring, rings, all-around game, MVP's, longevity). If all-around game includes defense, Bird (and to a lesser extent, Magic) may not score as high. Kareem may have the best combination of titles, MVP's, scoring and longevity. West, Michael, Kobe and Wilt probably are the best on offense and defense. If I was starting a franchise and could have one player, it would be Magic.
Posted by: rdlee | March 23, 2010 at 06:24 AM
Hey Troy B, there's only ONE troy on this site!!
Posted by: troy | March 23, 2010 at 06:41 AM
"if their prime was at the same time and they had comparable teams Magic may have beaten MJ
Posted by: Troy B."
______________________
IMO, Magic would have beaten MJ's team, year after year after year...and so on.
Would love to see these match-ups:
1.) Cooper taking on MJ would be fun.
2.) Scottie defending Magic would be interesting.
3.) Rambis boxing-out Rodman also seems fun.
4.) Worthy posting-up on Kukoc would be easy.
5.) Kareem vs Longley. The horror!!!
LAKERS ALL DAY!!!
Posted by: JovBatz44 | March 23, 2010 at 07:11 AM
2 post from prior threads that were OUT FREAKIN STANDING!!
*
When Phil makes predictions, he has a tendency to set the bar low, which is why I am a bit surprised that he came out and said the team should be 5-0 on the road trip. He seems to be challenging the team to get into playoff mode ASAP. The team's goal is not the typical "take one game at a time" approach. They want to win all the regular season games from here on out. This is the turning point of the season where the team will prove that they can beat good teams on the road. I am expecting a 5-0 road trip and anything less will be a disappointment. Posted by: LAKER TRUTH | March 22, 2010 at 04:42 PM
I consider the "facilitator" role stupid, especially at the beginning of the game. KILL the opponents with the first few shots and bring back the memory of a LOST cause. and yes, even the coaches r preparing the teams for that. Each team relaxes seeing that the wealth is distributed around and they start to get confident. big mistake. Maybe TEAM ball is PRETTY but not EFFICIENT for the final result. If i remember correctly the games r played for W or L not for beauty points. The wounds have to be deep and fatal. not scratches on the surface, they heal at the halftime. That's why even scrub teams get confident as the game goes on. They know that there is no tsunami. just some thunder and lighting. no rain. Posted by: ouchhhhhhhhh | March 22, 2010 at 12:39 PM
Posted by: Mamba24 | March 23, 2010 at 07:37 AM
Mark Medina,
"Just don't want you to worry that suddenly I turned into the Incredible Hulk or something."
I'M NOT BEING TESTY!
{Laughs}
No, I was more thinking that you were turning into Spider-Woman or something.
Regarding Brad Turner as a sportswriter, I love the guy's personality. He seems to be a good guy and his reports seem to hit all the essential points; however, he rarely communicates a subject with much depth or subtlety. If you want a Nick's Notes version of what's going on, you go to Brad Turner, but he rarely communicates subtle details or inside information in the way a great writer like Roland Lazenby does.
What do we play for? RINGS!!!
Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.
GO LAKERS!!!
Posted by: Jon K. | March 23, 2010 at 08:05 AM
Let's put it in simple Brad Turner/exheldovr terms:
The significance of this trip is that if we go 5-0 or 4-1, it will shut the chicken littles up and allow the Lakers to be more focused as we head towards the playoffs.
If we go 3-2 OR WORSE on this trip, people will begin screaming that the sky is falling, questioning Phil Jackson's coaching and the team's discipline and 80% of the questions by the media will be about whether or not this team has the will to repeat, thereby providing an annoying (and much unwanted) distraction to the team as we approach the playoffs.
It's either/or on this one.
What do we play for? RINGS!!!
Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.
GO LAKERS!!!!
Posted by: Jon K. | March 23, 2010 at 08:08 AM
Curry,
"I hate Kobe."
Well, we don't like you much either. What are you doing here, again?
What do we play for? RINGS!!!
Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.
GO LAKERS!!!!
Posted by: Jon K. | March 23, 2010 at 08:10 AM
Can we have some Luke Walton updates?
What do we play for? RINGS!!!
Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.
GO LAKERS!!!
Posted by: Jon K. | March 23, 2010 at 08:11 AM
Rick Friedman,
I just read your criticisms and I do not think they are without merit. (I love double-negatives.) However, we're in a weird position right now--players are hurt, players are out (Andrew, Luke), we keep winning, but not convincingly, it's the LAKERS and they have a historic tendency to win when they should lose and lose when they should win, Lakers play differently in the playoffs...
Where's the vital clue to provide clarity as to what is really going on with this team? Everything's conjecture right now and, honestly, I expect it to be like that until about a week before the playoffs.
What do we play for? RINGS!!!
Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.
GO LAKERS!!!
Posted by: Jon K. | March 23, 2010 at 08:15 AM
Guys there's a new post up as of 8 am. I'll be happy to approve any comments you want reposted.
Jon K - The only Luke Walton update is that as of now they're expecting him to be back mid-April....just in time for him to carry the Lakers in the playoffs
MM
Posted by: Mark Medina | March 23, 2010 at 08:31 AM
We'll see for these 6 games if bynum has an actual impact or if he's a throw away player.
Came up with that throw away thing meself XD
GO MR. B
Posted by: PhilipS.King | March 23, 2010 at 09:01 AM
"In the 2005-2006 season, Kobe was robbed. 2006-2007 Kobe was robbed."
Not so fast. As great Kobe was in 05-06 (81 points, 62 against the Mavs) there were other players who deserved an MVP besides Kobe and Nash who won the award. Elton Brand deserved it because he led the Clippers (really the Clippers??....) to the playoffs. Dirk also had legit reasons as well and then there's Lebron who was 2nd in the voting. D-Wade was also a legit MVP candidate then there too as he was the go to guy by then over Shaq and would eventually win the Finals MVP. You can't say Kobe was robbed for sure. Opinion wise? That's okay but there were tons of MVP candidates that year and while Nash didn't deserve it as much as he did the year before heck he had a MVP year too leading his Suns without Stoudemire. The Lakers record wasn't really good enough to get Kobe to be more than 4th on the ballot (45 wins....not so hot. Even when MJ scored 35ppg, 37ppg he didn't win the MVP either).
As for 06-07 again Kobe played fantastic but he wasn't robbed. I mean lemme say it....42-40 record. Yes he had to deal with injuries to his teammates (Lamar/Walton missed time) but again the Lakers weren't well good enough. Yes the Lakers without him would have been lottery but it wasn't good enough. And Dirk did deserve it that year. It's a regular season award. The playoffs showed that he's not Larry Bird by his first round choke.
And there are more things than just MVP's. Bird had a superior FG% than Kobe does and Bird was an outside shooter playing against hand checking and he was far more better 3 point shooter than Kobe. Despite his lack of athleticism Bird did everything else that athleticism can't give you and that was why he was so damn good. Plus Bird has 2 finals MVP compared to Kobe's 1. You cannot tell by just statistics or awards Hobbit about how damn good Larry was. I know he's a Celtic (the only Celtic that I respected heck not even 11 rings Russell has that) but there's a reason why Larry is amongst the top 5 of all time. Can Kobe catch up? Sure. He has to lead his teams to more titles though. I think that article was very horrid in putting Kobe already over guys like Olajuwon/Shaq/Timmy D and barely putting him down below Magic. It's fine to treat Kobe like a legend already he is. But the top 5 is a very hard list to crack and he has to LEAD his team more as the alpha dog. To me in that role he only did it once maybe once and a half. He played a big supporting role in the other 3/2.5 times but hey there's a reason why Shaq got those finals MVP in the end.
Posted by: KB Blitz | March 23, 2010 at 10:16 AM
hobbitmage and Tom,
If Kobe is able to do what he is obviously trying to do, then the question of who's the greatest will easily answered. The best physical talent maybe to ever play the game at an elite game is gunning for Kobe over in the East in the person of one LeBron James.
If Kobe can do what Russel did to Wilt, and what Bird did to Dominique and Jordan did to Stockton/Malone and keep him from getting a bunch of rings, there will simply be no debate.
We don't even rate GOAT candidates based on shooting percentage, or points, or rebounds or any such drivel. We rate them on wins and rings and leadership and other things much more esoteric. Magic Johnson was never a *great* shooter. Though, he could shoot the heck out of a free throw.
We look at GOATS based on how they perform in less than 10% of the games they actually participate in. We look at 4th quarters of playoff games. Not just any, run of the mill playoff games, either. We look at the 4th quarters of closeout and elimination games.
We look at MVP awards, though Finals MVP's carry more weight than regular season MVP's and with good reason. If Nash was so dominant for those two years, how come he still has ZERO rings?
LBJ is about to rob Kevin Durant out of his ring. Regular season MVP awards are starting to not mean anything at all. Kobe should have three. Nash shouldn't have any, and Duncan should have at least one more than he does.
Even the year Shaq was clearly the ONLY MVP in the league, some idiot reporter robbed him of his unanimous vote.
But, the Finals MVPs, they get those right.
Can you imagine if Kobe is able to go up against Goliath and repeatedly beat him back? Can you imagine the series where LeBronze and Kobe square off in the Finals and LBJ doesn't win?
How does LBJ stay anointed after that?
LBJ is having one of the most insane statistical years in NBA history. It will mean nothing if he can't:
a) make it out of the East
b) make it through Kobe
c) be the Finals MVP
Especially coming off a second regular season leading his team to the best record and falling short in the playoffs.
He will be known as a great player, but not as a winner. He will be the next DW, Karl Malone, Charles Barkley, Reggie Miller, etc. Kobe can do that.
But, that challenge is VERY daunting. LBJ is the Beastiest Beast ever to play the game. Hands down.
Guys, history, of some sort, is in the making here.
--FEARless
Posted by: FEARless | March 23, 2010 at 09:42 PM
Mavericks lost to Hornets today on the road. That pushed them back by another 0.5 game, and are now behind us by 6 games, with 12 games left for each team. (52-18, 46-24)
So, its enough if we go 7-5 in the rest 12 games, we would still be ahead of Mavericks (given they go 12-0 for the rest 12) However, Nuggets are only 5 behind, so if we go 7-5, and they go 12-0, then we'd be tied, and the tie-breaker would be used (I think they're ahead on this).
Nuggets play the Knicks and Celtics on the road on back-to-back (with Celtics on the 2nd night of back to back) If they lose that game, then 7-5 would do for us as well.
So, will 7-5 do?? Kings, Clippers, Wolves, Blazers(at Staples) would make the 4 out of the 7 needed. We also play Spurs and Jazz at home. Win one of these, and at least 2 on the next 5 game road trip, we got the WC home court in our pocket all but done :)
Posted by: Ruud van Nistelrooy | March 22, 2010 at 08:27 PM
====================
Wow that is confusing. I say we go 28-0 and get the rings.
Posted by: JustaLakerFan | March 23, 2010 at 10:05 PM
Posted by: JustaLakerFan
I think that is not a good way to compare. For instance Lakers gave away all but 7 of their 28 point lead and hung on to win. Counts as a win though. Now would this big lead vanish if AB was in and playing the way he has been playing lately? Or would this have been lopsided the whole game? Never know will we?
##################
I think the correct question is ... would the Lakers have ever built a 28 point lead with Bynum in the lineup.
Posted by: Troll Man | March 22, 2010 at 10:36 PM
==================
Answer is YES and then some!
Posted by: JustaLakerFan | March 23, 2010 at 10:06 PM
Troy B gives nice words and show respect, its the opposite to normal Troy! the los angeles times hater(specially against Pau).
Posted by: eurotriple | March 24, 2010 at 05:21 AM