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Kobe Bryant leads the Lakers' all-time in scoring, but there's lots of scoring left for Mamba

Kobe Bryant

Lakers fans will surely closely monitor Kobe Bryant's scoring records this season and later ones to come, an exercise that reached full steam Monday when he surpassed Lakers great Jerry West as the organization's all-time leading scorer.

You may not want all the "clutter" that comes along with it, such as a loss to the Memphis Grizzlies or the never-ending debates regarding Bryant's shot selection. But not only will his current clip of 25,208 points continually increase like Gmail's storage space and the national debt, his current 14th-place standing with 25,208 points on the NBA's all-time scoring list will only stay in flux for a very short time.

Here's what he's done this season alone. Mamba jumped above Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (24,176 points) on the Lakers' scoring list. He moved along to 14th place on the league's scoring place by surpassing Allen Iverson (24,344 points and counting), Patrick Ewing (24,815 points) and, most recently, West (25,192 points). And he became the youngest player to score 25,000 career points. Very soon, we can also add that he has passed Reggie Miller (25,279 points) and Alex English (25,613 points) as well. 

But where will he ultimately stay on the all-time list? Bryant said earlier this season that he doesn't know if he'd be able to surpass Abdul-Jabbar's league-leading 38,387 points simply because the 13-year vet doesn't "know how long I'll play." West said Bryant's main advantages include his turning pro straight from high school and playing with few injuries, though he cited the latter part being an unpredictable factor that could help or hurt Bryant's cause. Nonetheless, West estimated Bryant would end with at least 30,000 career points.

If West's assessment proves correct, that means Bryant would join Abdul-Jabbar (38,387), Karl Malone (36,928), Michael Jordan (32,292) and Wilt Chamberlain (31,419) as the only players to score at least 30,000 points. Bryant will also be in close contention with Shaquille O'Neal, who is currently fifth on the list with 28,103 points. Something tells me Bryant won't be as nostalgic about surpassing O'Neal as he was about eclipsing West.

-- Mark Medina

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Photo: Lakers guard Kobe Bryant reacts after making a three-pointer in the second half against Memphis on Monday night. Credit: Mark Weber / Associated Press

 
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I care less about points and more about Championships.

There's nothing to celebrate here. We lost to Memphis last night.

What do we play for? RINGS!!!!

Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.

GO LAKERS!!!!

THIS IS NOT CHAMPIONSHIP BASKETBALL!!!

Every game (almost) that the Lakers doesn't dominate is a letdown. My goodness, look at the players we have. So much talent. Unfortunately, not so much IQ... The biggest sign of stupidity is making the same mistakes - over and over and over... Jeez, haven't we learned anything from that horrible playoff run last season???

Now that Drew is playing decent ball, pound the rock inside for Pete's sake! And him whining about not being an all star - puh-leeeez....

Aarrrggghhhh! It's frustrating being a Lakers fan. Some officials scoff at us for complaining when we have such a good record. Well, go #@% yourselves! These players earn millions of dollars, so the least we could expect is some gosh darned effort!

Watching God...err...Kobe play is also frustrating. We never know when the injuries will act up and kill his outstanding game. Take the freethrows for instance. Seeing him miss that many is like watching Jesus turn water into vinegar instead of wine.

Well, at least Ron Ron is starting to come around.

And one last thing. I REALLY want Cleveland in the finals (yes, I still believe we'll get that far...) I can't wait to see Kobe shutting that prancing LeBroiler up. I won't forget the strutting and sneering he did after they beat us on this trip. It was really satisfying seeing Drew dunk in Garnett's face after that idiot drew a charge followed by a giant sneer. Btw, we got lucky in Beantown... So let's destroy Cleveland in the finals!

Sure Kobe will be evilish smirking when he will pass FatShaq over.
That kind of smirk which I *so* love.
Can't wait.

Lebron's teammates make 27 field goals a game
Kobe's teammates make 28.5 field goals a game

Lebron averages 8 assists a game, while taking 20 shots
Kobe averages 4 assists a game, while taking 22.5 shots

Doesn't that seem odd? Kobe shoots the same 46% on fgs as the rest of his team. Lebron shoots 50%, several % points better than his teammates. Yet Lebron is the one shooting less and getting more dimes, even with significantly fewer pieces around him than what the Lakers have. Would you give them Pau and take Z? Give them Bynum and take Shaq? Give them Artest and take Anthony Parker? Give them Fisher and take Gibson? Give them Odom and take Varejao? Not to mention that the Cavs are giving Jawad Williams, J.J. Hicksons, and Jamario Moon serious playing time. Why do you think Cleveland is playing better with those scrubs than the Lakers are playing with the closest thing to an all-star team?

In the first 5 games of the 2006 playoffs, we saw how the Lakers could play when Kobe plays smart. We saw it again for long stretches of 07-08 and 08-09, and even at times while Kobe was hurting. After PJ trying to pound it into his head for 10 years, why is it still so hard for Kobe to understand that the Lakers play better that way?

"Soured" is such an...incorrect...term for last night's loss.

To be sure, I felt sour immediately aftewards. Then, I realized what I just saw.

Kobe was letting Ron-Ron know that he trusts him in late game situations. Michael Thompson had been saying the whole time that it was time for both Fish and Ron-Ron to be ready behind the 3-pt line. He knew that Kobe was going to dish.

He was, of course, exactly correct.

Ron-Ron wasn't quite ready, yet. But, now he knows that in the future, he better be.

Kobe and PJ are sowing seeds that will reap rewards come playoff time.

Doesn't everyone on this blog already know that if either Fish or Kobe took that shot it was going in?

Kobe risked this game to teach a team mate a much larger lesson.

Imagine the boost in psyche if Ron had canned that shot? Imagine the jubilation, the comradeship, the confidence that would have been built.

But,Kobe and PJ are flexing just a little too soon, I think. Usually, they wait 'till after the All-Star break. They've both started a little early this season. More urgency? I don't know.

But, rest assured, barring injury, Ron-Ron will be ready. That will make the Lakers a four-pronged playoff attack.

Kinda scary, when you think of it.

After the initial let-down, I can take this loss because of what it means in the broader scheme of things.

--FEARless

Good morning CRUE!!!

Well - we lost.... so what?


I really don't feel like picking nits today, so I'll take the W in Boston, extend my good feeling about that through today and be ever so grateful that Socks didn't receive another season-ending injury last night.

A couple nights of good sleep and home cooking will really help. A few more games before the AS break, a few more wins, and then like JP says "we can breathe".

So - congratulations KOBE!! All time Laker scoring leader!! We are so extremely blessed to watch this athlete play. Be happy everyone. We're still going to the Finals.

GO LAKERS!!

Nothing but another title will suffice.

ummm of course I meant PJ - not JP - but you catch my drift.... lol

Jon K,
"There's nothing to celebrate here"

- Breaking that record represents fourteen years of hard work and dedication to his craft, playing through injuries like no other, game winners and other clutch moments, fourteen years of entertainment and drama, four championships and six finals apprearances. He is going to be the greatest Laker of all time when it's all said and done. Yes, it was a loss, but unless you despise the man, there is plenty reasons to celebrate one of the greatest achievements in Laker history.

I am not a Coach and Jon K is tired of reading negative posts, therefore here are the strategies that a simpleton fan can think of:

The bulldog (Fisher) got the ball dribbling on their front court. Can we please ask him to go for a lay up than those threes. If he gets fouled, lakers get a sure two? He should have a quota of three field attempts on the three point line spread out in four quarters. For every one missed attempt, follow it with a layup or a decoy layup but actually an assist to Godzilla (Bynum) waiting there in the low post or the Catalan Ostrich (Gasol) for his pivot hook shots on left hand. If those two are sealed and heavily guarded go to Mamba Gatsby (Kobe) on the outside or to Darth Vader (Artest) also on the outside. Both Gatsby and Darth Vader can decide whether to go for inside or shoot it on the outside. Fisher should put into his mind that he is already an old PH, therefore he can only pass the ball and shoot less frequently. Sacrifice the ego for the good of the team.

Can the assistant coaches design a play and practice this routine again and again in order to have meeting of minds not a blatant turn over on the actual game?

Next post will be another simpleton strategy to another player.

While there is certainly a legitimate argument about Kobe's taking too many shots, it is imperative for Bynum and Gasol to show some cojones and DEMAND the ball.

Kobe will only respect that kind of attitude and it would go a long way to shoring up the lax defense often played by our bigs as well.

This is a man's game and toughness is required.

If Gasol can criticise Kobe after the game, then he can do it in the game.

MM,

Have you calculated the statistic during this season:

Bynum + Gasol FGA / Bryant FGA

Against the Memphis last nite it was 10/28 = .036

My guess is when statistic is

2+ Lakers win and the

1-2 closer it gets to 1 the greater the chance of Lakers loss.

Below 1 - Lakers will lose most of the time

Good Morning Charles...Good Morning Everyone...

must say I saw this one coming, I thought after the emotional win on Sunday that we would probably have a let down and lose to Memphis, but still a very winnable game indeed, because I have said it before and I will painfully say it again, as it were:

MAKE YOUR FREE THROWS AND WIN THE GAME !!!

as I also said early in the year, there will be games where we simply get beat, get blown away etc. and fortunately those are few and far between (hopefully), but there will be close games that the main reason we lose is simply not making free throws---obviously, last night's game was in the latter catagory, seemingly...

still couldn't figure out though why Bynum wasn't given the ball more, and or why he didn't seem to establish consistent positioning...

and we had some real mental lapses, and simple mistakes---typical of an ending long road trip maybe, but I thought we should have been a lot more focused on closing out the road trip...

but in the end we didn't play entirely horrible, except at the line, which cost us this game...practice men, practice !!!

I still think Rudy Gay would look really good wearing Purple and Gold...someday maybe...

"woke up, fell out of bed, dragged a comb across my head"

"well come on in, excuse me for not shaking hands, but I've just been putting a bit of lard on the cat's boil"

AS ALWAYS, AS EVER, YET ANOTHER GREAT DAY (AND CHAMPIONSHIP SEASON) TO BE A LAKER FAN !!!

GO LAKERS !!!

Last five games:

Lebron James: 10 assists/game
Kobe Bryant: 5 assists/game


For those who say that Kobe has no one to pass to, I want you to look at how those players are getting those assists.

Lebron - Shaq: 10 assists
Kobe-Bynum: 4 assists

Bynum plays more minutes than Shaq, makes more field goals than Shaq, and shoots a higher fg% than Shaq....so why can't Kobe feed him like Lebron feeds Shaq?


Lebron-Z: 6 assists
Kobe-Pau: 12 assists

This is where Kobe shines, the one player he likes to feed. Of course, Pau plays far more minutes than Z and makes more than twice as many FG's while scoring more than twice as many points.


Lebron-Gibson: 9 assists
Kobe-Fisher/Farmar: 5 assists

I combined Fisher/Farmar, who together have made more field goals in the last 5 games than Gibson, the Cavs 3rd-string point guard.


Lebron-Jawad: 7 assists
Kobe-Artest: 3 assists

Try and make sense out of this one. Why can't Kobe set up someone like Artest with shots?


Lebron-Varejao: 5 assists
Kobe-Lamar: 2 assists

Again, not a stat that shouldn't make sense, but does.

Lebron-Moon/Parker/Hickson/Green: 14 assists
Kobe-Brown/Walton/Powell/Vujacic: 0 assists

And this is another stats that tells a clear story. Lebron sets up everyone on his team. Kobe...not so much.

I will concentrate on our PG for those simpleton strategies that I can think of.

Here comes Cessna UPS (Brown) dribbling the ball coming from the back court, instead of stopping and going for a lateral pass to Kobe or whoever is beside him, why not imitate a quarterback ready to pass the ball down low to either Godzilla (Bynum) or to Spanish Ostrich. Another way is go for a take off with his Cessna engine while Plastic Man (Odom) riding in a locomotive coming from the left flank attacking the hoop. Therefore, if Cessna could not deliver the ball to Godzilla or Ostrich and there is no way to fly to the hoop, then give it to Plastic Man who is approaching at the 0-40 mph coming from the left flank. Another way, if Ostrich (Gasol) is arriving on a slow locomotive from Barcelona jogging chug, chug, chug!....Cessna should pass the ball to Ostrich who is now running faster 0-25 mph and going for the hoop. BINGO!

To UPS, the rule on the Bulldog also applies, he is limited to three attempts of 3 pointers spread out throughout the game. For every missed, he should follow it with layups only. Like Fisher, UPS Cessna is good in free throws.

Can the assistant coach like the old Hamblen employ this routine during practice at least five times? There should be meeting of minds between Cessna and Godzilla or Ostrich and Plastic Man is also involved with this simple plan. Avoid turn over on the actual game.

Will reserve the other strategies for other players in another thread before Mark Medina's itch get into introducing another thread with the same story. He's campaigning for more ticks, twits and needs to plant cookies too. LOL!

Lebron - 0 rings
Kobe - 4 rings

stop comparing two exceptional but very different basketball players, you'll end up with more wrinkles. thank you very much :)

Pau and Marc maybe want to play together next year like his National Team. San Antonio will be the perfect team for both players, Pau playing PF and Marc C. The Spanish dream is that two brothers playing at the same NBA Team and of course, San Antonio is perfect (Duncan is old and Spurs need rebuilding around another superstar - Pau -) Pau will be a franchise player, not co-star as now. Lakers is obviosly Kobe-team and Pau need build his individual NBA History. He deserved that.

Cogrants from Barcelona, Spain, and sorry for my pathetic english.

It looks like it is still too early to start another thread so I will post another simpleton strategy to the 3rd PG, Farmar.

There are trade rumors out there for Farmar's head so he could not think straight but he wants to prove that he belongs. Therefore, why not work for Team Farmar. It means whether Laker will still be your employer or to the next team, improve your image as a PG.

What are the noticeable deficiencies in your point guard repertoire?

1. You hold the ball too long
2. You dribble too much
3. Too much time are wasted when you have the ball
4. When you pass the ball, it's too late 24 sec. will sound the buzzer
5. Sometimes you are clutch shooter and most of the times you are a brick shooter.

Therefore, can Brad Feet (Farmar) not apply my recommendation to Bulldog and UPS Cessna feeding Godzilla in the low post at a closer range or to the incoming locomotives from PlasticMan and Spanish Ostrich? I noticed that Brad Feet has a good foot speed in going for a layup, don't apply a fancy passing once you are on the air because you are t/o prone. Go for the hoop in a "kamikaze" attack. Because you are small chances are your layups are going to be blocked, therefore devise ways to earn a foul even to the point of imitating the acting ability of Darth Vader (artest). Therefore the prescription for Brad Feet, don't dribble too much, go for the basket or assist w/ ease and avoid turn over.

Put it into your mind that you are a young PG opposite of bulldog and there is a lot of future in store for you whether with Lakers or another team. Work for Team Farmar in protecting that good image, a likable guy, a charitable person. Your horoscope says avoid T/O's, avoid dribbling too much, improve your ppg.

Wow. Really disappointed in Pau Gasol's comments to Kevin Ding in the Orange County Register.

http://bit.ly/at71BU

“Now we can focus on winning games again.” Pau blaming Kobe for the loss in Memphis?

Ding writes: "Gasol has on several occasions offered passive-aggressive comments about not getting the ball enough after Lakers losses in the past. This time, the comments leaned a little harder toward aggressive, particularly when it came to Bryant."

This is no time for disharmony among team mates, not that there ever is a good time for disharmony.

John Ireland reported that before the game, Kobe told him he hoped to be able to score the tie-breaker with West when the team returned home to Staples. Only the lack of production by his team mates against Memphis forced Kobe into savior mode.

Even Phil Jackson at half-time told the team to be less Kobe dependent. They just never responded, coming out of the break even worse than they were in the first half.

Perhaps Gasol was just disappointed in himself and didn't express himself properly. Perhaps the entire team was just worn down by the grind of the long road trip. But Gasol also knows you win and lose as a team. Kobe wasn't exactly thrilled by the results in Memphis, either.

blame on Kobe's teammates and say that he doesn't have the talent around him to pass the ball and get assists, so I was showing that Lebron does it just fine with far less talent. Kobe has done it himself in the past with a lot less talent than he has now (see 2006 playoffs), so now that he's surrounded with talent and his athleticism has diminished, he should be doing it even more.

MM,

Did a little selective research on the proposed statistic

Bynum + Gasol FGA / Bryant FGA

Losses:

Utah 20/24
Cavs 1 15/33
Suns 20/26
Raptors 19/31

Biggest Margin Win on road trip

Pacers 32/15

Jon K,

Yes, let's not criticize the team. Those bad analysts on ESPN and TNT are always saying bad things. They are mean people. Regular season doesn't mean anything, people are paying hundreds if not thousands for tickets.
But shouldn't expect the Lakers to be focused and play hard because the games do not matter. Why don't we just skip the regular season all together, and go right to the playoffs. Especially for Fish, because we only need him for the last few seconds of playoff games.

Kurt,
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Great response to Rich M. We need more posts from you. Thanks.
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LTLF,
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>>> Forget about letshannondunk.com. It's time to create letjordanstart.com
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It’s looking more and more like that makes good sense. I think Jordan’s speed will help replace what we lost from the starters when we swapped Artest for Ariza.
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never,
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>>> well at least bynum didn't go out for the season
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Actually that is a real silver lining to last night, although there was one scary moment.
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Nemaia,
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>>> There's absolutely no excuse whatsoever for Pau and Drew getting a total of 10
>>> shots combined!!!
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Don’t need to add any more to that. The words speak for themselves.
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Rick,
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>>> Despite the loss, the night belonged to Kobe Bryant. Years from now, no one will remember
>>> the outcome of this game. They will only remember one thing when playing Lakers Trivia.
>>> It was the night Kobe Bryant became the Lakers all-time leading scorer. 44 points on the night
>>> he surpassed #44.
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I agree 100%, Rick. And Kobe should have had a shot the last four times down the court.
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Edwin,
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>>> Nobody is hating any player in this blog.
-
If you think that, you are mistaken. Just read the vitriol pouring in, mostly from the crowd that only comes out after a loss. Yes, they have a right to say whatever they want. And I have a right to consider them less than good Lakers fans. Regardless of your curmudgeon comments.
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LAKER TRUTH,
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If only your name had some relationship to the illogic of your posts, maybe like LAKER LIES.
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Caliphilosopher,
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>>> It appears that some people are myopic; the real season starts in the playoffs.
>>> I'd like for everyone to just get healthy, to show effort, and get some continuity
>>> (offensive and defensive). That's completely fine with me until the playoffs.
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Excellent post. We still have a half of a regular season to play before the games really count.
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Tom

amen to that LA Guy, great point - I wish Kobe would play more team ball... then the lakers will truly be unstoppable...

REPOST FROM YESTERDAY:
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IT’S ALL ABOUT RESPECT...
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That’s what Andrew Bynum was demanding when he viciously posterized Kevin Garnett in retaliation for Garnett’s persistent taunting and trash talking as the two ran down the court. Drew was not only telling KG that he was not going to be intimidated but he also sending a strong message that he would be doing some bullying of his own from now on. That one play was a perfect microcosm of the current position and direction of the two teams with older bully suddenly unable to handle the tougher youth.
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That’s what Phil Jackson was delivering when he graciously praised Andrew Bynum for his great game against the Celtics, specifically making the point that the reason Drew played in the 4th quarter in lieu of Pau was because of how well he had played and had nothing to do with Pau’s play. You can see the wisdom and insight behind Phil’s usual sparing praise of Drew in the past. As Drew did with KG, Phil used this situation to send a clear message to Drew. THIS is what we expect from you.
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That’s what Pau Gasol needs to remember to demand from teams and players who seek to intimidate and physically push him around. As a finesse player, Pau has to steel himself before the game and get into a mindset to play tougher and more physical, to finish every play extra strong. While it is not in his nature, we all know Pau can do it because we saw him do it last year to win the championship. Now he has to learn that respect is just like love – if you forget about it, you WILL end up losing it.
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Finally, that’s what all my furor over the player hating on this blog – R*E*S*P*E*C*T. If you want to criticize a player on our team, no problem. For sure, every player on the team, including Kobe Bryant, has deserved to be criticized at one time of another. But when the tone sinks to the septic level of deprecating names, whether it be Bonehead Bynum or Ball Hog Kobe or Creampuff Pau, enough is enough in my book. Especially when the true emotion behind the hatred is patently obvious. Frankly, call me any name you want but don’t tread on my players and not expect me to fire back with vigor.
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Tom

" Only the lack of production by his team mates against Memphis forced Kobe into savior mode."

What? Kobe shot the ball on four straight possessions in the first 3 minutes of the game, and ended TWELVE possessions in the first quarter alone (11 shots including fouled shots, plus one turnover). Exactly how long did it take for Kobe to be "forced" into savior mode?

I am very happy for Kobe. He deserves it. But, you all now that West played before the 3 point line...so let's add another 2,000 points to his real indexed total. I know Kobe would appreciate that.

Pau and Marc together?????, mmmmmmmmmm Good idea. Here in Barcelona have a dream. Pau and Marc playing together for a NBA team. Pau is really a superstar in Spain and his brother too. Playing together in USA will be the real Dream off all Spaniards fans. Now we have the heart broken between Memphis and L.A. With Pau and Marc together, Spain and Barcelona fans will have a legitime NBA Spanish Team. Please, Lakers, bring Pau and Marc Together, no in L.A., obviously, but a trade for Pau maybe help something.

Go lakers and regards from Barcelona.

Hey guys a new post is up. Todd, haven't gotten to the calculations yet, but that's good stuff. I will get to that soon

MM

hmmm....by response to LadyJem disappeared...

LadyJem, I was pointing out that the ring argument is old already. Scottie Pippen has 6 rings but Clyde Drexler only has 1. Robert Horry has 7 rings but Charles Barkley has 0. Sam Jones has 10 rings, but for some reason I never hear his name in all-time great discussions. The Lakers have gotten their rings when they've had an all-time great coach, an all-star center, and a number of veterans. Kobe Bryant only has one finals MVP - those rings belong to the team, not him.

And I'm not trying to compare Kobe and Lebron and decide who is better anyways (that would be a much longer post). All I'm doing is pointing out that Lebron is playing the game the right way, that Kobe knows how to play that way, and that Kobe obviously has more than enough talent to play that way if he would quit being so stubborn about getting his own shots. In the first 5 games of the 2006 playoffs he first showed he could do it, in the 07/08 and 08/09 seasons he showed how it could pay off, and he's even done it in the recent past. So why can't he do it game in and game out?

Marc and Pau have a great relationship and maybe want to play together in USA for the same Team. Here in Spain I heard a rumor: San Antonio Spurs or Toronto Raptors like Ideal Teams for both brother to play together (toronto have Jose Calderon, a close friend of Pau and Marc) Maybe a Trade Bosh/Pau and a future trade for Marc............. to Toronto too, maybe....... That is the dream of NBA spaniards fans: PAU, MARC AND JOSE CALDERON playing together.

The Gasol´s Teamwork will be in Barcelona playing together for F.C. Barcelona (Barça) at the end his careers.

I usually just read, but the LA Guy really annoyed me. He is the biggest Lebronze fan that I've seen in this blog. However, he forgets that the 2 teams play different scheme for their offense. If I have the ball every trip down like Lebronze, I would have the same assists that he has now. In the triangle offense, the ball MOVES, so Kobe would never have that number of assists per game. In addition, if the ref starts calling all of the illegal dribble aka crab dribble LeBronze is doing right now, his stat would fall down the cliff so fast that noone would remember him.

Cybercops

chicho sibilio - nacho solozabal

Stop smoking and multi user posting

Cyber, try to tone it down a little in your posts so they look less like ranting, and I'll take you more seriously.

I think Lebron is a great player, but I don't let my feelings about players get in the way of analysis so much that I have to make up silly little nicknames for them. Take a deep breathe and think about this:

Kobe ended (through shots or turnovers) 35 possessions yesterday. Are you really going to tell me that the ball was moving around as it is supposed to in the triangle offense?

Kobe shot the ball on 9 consecutive possessions at one point. Are you really telling me that he doesn't get the ball enough to have a lot of assists?


Keep trying to claim that anyone would have as many assists as Lebron if they touched the ball as often as Lebron. If that were true, then why is it that when Kobe starts dominating the ball and demanding it on every possession, he doesn't rack up any assists?

Good Morning Everyone,

it was a trap game, obviously something was bound to happen, and yet, Im good. One loss will not affect the outcome of the season so keep your heads up. My feeling right now is that Kobe needs to sit and REST. I don't want the Lakers tempting fate should Kobe agravate anyone of his injurys. A couple losses for greater health in the playoffs is a neccessary evil if we are to take the championship this year. In either case, have faith Morning crüe, in the end, we shall prevail!!! Believe me, some time with Kobe on the bench will only make it better for the bench and the rest of the team to learn how to play without Kobe and maybe, just maybe, our bench will not give up leads like we do. One can only hope. Go Lakers!!!!

Tom,

I am with you about criticizing our own players in a respectful manner. That is what being a fan is all about.

However, Tom, do not forget that the only way to respectfully criticize a Ceptic is to use the most denigrating terms conceivable.

It is only right.

--FEARless

LA Guy,

You are missing something that everyone on this blog has been trying to tell you. You have a problem with Kobe shooting, and everyone can see it. But, Kobe is a shooting guard. He is paid in excess of $100 million to do exactly what he is doing, shoot the dang ball.

There is a reason why opposing coaches are sending 2, 3, and 4 guys at Kobe when he gets the ball. It isn't because he is NOT proficient at shooting the ball, I can tell you that.

The fact that the ball doesn't go in all the time is besides the point. Kobe has to remain the #1 threat on every possession of every single game or the whole thing falls apart. He can only be the #1 threat if he continues to shoot. There is, and there has always been a point of diminishing returns of Kobe trying to be a decoy or distributor or some other thing.

Please understand, if other teams know that the ball can be taken out of Kobe's hands, they will start to play our other players more honestly. Since we have ZERO knock-down shooters on our squad not named KOBE, this change in defensive strategy would spell our doom.

Detractors on this blog have bemoaned our lack of said sharp-shooters. Once you have digested this fact as truth, that necessitate certain other things to happen. The years you have mentioned included knock-down shooters. We forget that Sasha actually earned his nick-name of "The Machine". And, in those playoff sequences you mentioned, Fish couldn't miss.

What you are forgetting is that before the All-Star Break in every season mentioned, Kobe played largely like he is playing now. The "change" didn't happen 'till the second half.

At that time, Kobe knew who he could trust, having spent an entire half-season feeling them out. How soon we forget.

You are criticizing Kobe when he did exactly as you ask, even passing up the final shot, and you conveniently forget the whole thing ever happened.

And, DUDE, get off the assists thing. LeBronze takes the ball up-court EVERY SINGLE POSSESSION. If a guy hits a shot, LeBronze gets an automatic assist. How many phantom assists do you think he gets playing that way?

He isn't involving his players any more than Kobe is. In fact, that stat sheet suggests the opposite. The Lakers have more possessions per game that the Cavs. That is why both KOBE and The Rest of the Team can both score more baskets than LeBronze and the Cavs. More possessions means MORE not LESS involvement for the team as a whole.

BTW, that is why it is so boring to watch the Cavs play. You watch the same exact play unfold every single possession. That person either shoots or passes. Usually, they will pass the ball right back to LeBronze.

Kobe, on the other hand, can spend long stretches of the game where he doesn't touch the ball if he doesn't get a rebound or steal. What's that all about?

How come it is OK for LeBronze to touch the ball every possession, but not for Kobe? Yet, Kobe is the ball-hog?

PULEEEZEE!

Kobe maybe touches the ball on 60-70% of the possessions every game. Yet, he's the ball-hog.

I don't get it.

--FEARless

Your comments leave me at a loss. Lebron takes the ball up the court EVERY SINGLE POSSESSION, as you put it? An ignorant comment like that tells me that you have watched very little basketball this year. Even if you had just watched the two Laker/Cav games alone you would know better than that.

And the claim that teams send 2, 3, and 4 guys at Kobe every time he touches the ball? First of all, that's a ridiculous claim and provides further evidence that you don't pay attention to basketball games at all. Secondly, let's pretend it was true. You claim that 2, 3, or 4 guys are sent at Kobe, which would leave 1, 2, or 3 guys WIDE OPEN. Yet you are trying to say that it is better for the Lakers to have Kobe shoot into double, triple, or quadruple coverage than for him to pass to the multiple wide-open players he has available. Really, that's your strategy? And the claim that they need to develop this tendency early on so they can do the opposite later is more silliness - you really think teams are so slow that they can't adjust to whatever is happening mid-game? And don't you think it would be better if Kobe developed the passing tendency early instead, so that he could then dominate against one-on-one coverage because everyone is afraid of him passing the ball?

Next, you note that the Lakers have more possessions than the Cavs, yet Kobe still has far fewer assists than Lebron. Exactly how does that support your point? Are you trying to argue against your own point now?

Finally, you say that Lebron touches the ball every possession, and imply that somehow makes him a ballhog because Kobe only touches the ball 60-70% of the time. Your reasoning is horrible. Touching the ball does not make you a ballhog. Has anyone, ever, in the history of the game called Steve Nash or Magic Johnson ballhogs because they brought the ball up the court and touch the ball on every possession? I don't see how you could possibly argue that. KEEPING the ball makes you a ballhog. Lebron handles the ball on more possessions than Kobe, yet he only takes 20 shots a game and manages 8 assists. Kobe, while touching the ball fewer times, manages to shoot 22.5 times a game and only gets 4.5 assists. Which one of those stat pairs looks like a ballhog line to you?

There's a lot more, but I'll just point out one more thing. Say that Kobe is a "shooting guard" who has to remain the "#1 threat" on every possession or the "whole thing falls apart" is just dumb. Sorry, that's not basketball strategy. You think that teams will stop treating Kobe as the #1 threat if he learned to pass? You think that Lebron isn't the #1 threat at all times on his team? And you think that if teams D'd Kobe up less because they knew he might pass to an open teammate, that that would someone hurt the Lakers?

FearLESS !

Loved your post!! :o)

Its sad when individuals have such hatred in their heart...

lakersydeordie - who has the hatred? Who is the one who is calmly explaining the game to others, and who makes up derogatory names about any player they don't like? Who just breaks down the stats, and who attacks the heart of the people posting the stats?

LA Guy,

>>>Give them Fisher and take Gibson?

I'm curious... Why do you not compare apples and apples.

It should have been Give them Fisher and take Maurice Williams.

And the answer would be a resounding YES.

I'd also give up Odom for Varejao. Varejao isn't as offensively gifted as Lamar, but he plays hard EVERY NIGHT, which Lamar doesn't. Also Raggedy Andy doesn't constantly jack up 3 pointers despite the fact that he's only hitting 30% of them.

I'll keep Bynum over Shaq, but if you offer last year's Shaq, I'd have to consider it.

If you took Anthony Parker over Ron Artest, there'd be a slight dropoff in defensive intensity (Parker's good, but not as good as Ron-Ron), but he'd be making 45% of his 3-pointers instead of the 39% that Artest makes.

>>>Bynum plays more minutes than Shaq, makes more field goals than Shaq,
>>>and shoots a higher fg% than Shaq....so why can't Kobe feed him like
>>>Lebron feeds Shaq?

It's pretty obvious if you actually watch the games instead of just reading stats.

The Lakers play a triangle offense most of the time. At critical junctures, they'll break down to Kobe isolation, but most of the time it involves a lot of ball movement. So there are lots of assists, but they're distributed over a lot of people.

Cleveland has LeBron initiate the offense 99% of the time. If you've got the ball all the time and if you're good enough to get double and triple teamed, of course you're going to get a lot of assists. Same could be said for Steve Nash and CP3 and Deron Williams - their offenses dictate that they will get a lot of assists.

Put LeBron or Nash or Paul or Williams in a triangle, and their assists would go down by at least 1/3.

LongTimeLakerFan - a couple of corrections:

You ask "I'm curious... Why do you not compare apples and apples. It should have been Give them Fisher and take Maurice Williams."

If you read my post, you'd see that I was talking about the recent games (all the stats were over the last 5 games). Mo Williams hasn't played a minute, yet the Cavs have won every game, and Lebron's assist stats have actually gone up, rather than down. So I don't think that having Mo Williams on the team is really the reason that Lebron gets assists.

Since we're talking about offense and assists, then clearly Lamar is better than Varejao, and I can't even believe you would think about calling Parker comparable to Artest. Parker makes MAYBE two shots a game, and he hasn't even been managing that recently. And I don't know why you're talking about "last year's Shaq" as if that has anything to do with anything.

Kobe apologists keep using the "lots of ball movement" excuse, but I keep pointing to the same thing - Kobe ended 35 possessions last night, including 9 in a row in the 2nd/3rd quarter. You can't blame ball movement on Kobe's lack of assists. He clearly had the ball in his hands plenty, and he wasn't choosing to move it. Put Lebron in the triangle offense, as you say, and I guarantee that his assist numbers don't drop below 6, and if you give him Kobe's teammates they'd stay at 7-8 or even higher.

I have a question for all those people who keep saying "It's not Kobe's job to pass" and "Lebron facilitates the offense, but Kobe doesn't" and "Kobe doesn't handle the ball nearly as much as Lebron" and "Lebron takes the ball up the court, but Kobe doesn't". If Kobe's only job is the score and Lebron is doing that just as much and more efficiently, plus Lebron is doing all these other things that Kobe isn't (and we didn't even mention rebounding), plus Lebron has been playing better defense than Kobe over the last two years, are we saying that Lebron as a player is much more valuable to his team than Kobe is? I'm just asking if that's what you're saying.

DFish,

Your snide, self-righteous sarcasm is utterly annoying.

I assume you spend all your time by yourself because I am completely at a loss as to why anyone else would want to spend time with you.

What do we play for? RINGS!!!!

Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.

GO LAKERS!!!!

LA Guy... erm... try and make LeBronze play with the injuries Kobe has right now, and had ALL SEASON LONG, and all of his supposed stats will DISAPPEAR faster than oxygen around a candle that burns under a glass.
Guy is a crybaby.
PLEASE.
You'ere clearly LeBroniac.
At least be sincere. Nothing wrong with it. But maybe this isn't really your forum or your team. Don't hide behind a finger.

To all of you who wants Gasol traded: you're clearly under the influence of something.

Pau is here to stay.

Marc is a good player, but I fear he costs way too much.

I'd like to see the bros together HERE though. BUt NOT at the esxpense of Bynum. Just my two cents.

About the debate on Kobe... I am ready with a longer post soon.

Gotta gather thoughts.

wow, its crazy how spoiled we Laker fans have become. obviously we have nothin to do but nitpick about a game in Febraury. Does anyone her think that we won't thrash Memphis come playoff time? It's funny how people are on here crucifying KB24 for shooting more than others. Please correct me if i'm wrong, didn't bynum, lamar, and pau have 5,5,and 4 fouls respectively. Do you think that had nothin to do with the team not getting in a rhythm all night. If yall are gonna feel this way, then don't enjoy the nights where he goes bananas and we win, everyone is on here rejoicing then. To those comparing stats between him and Lebron, answer me this, Does who is passing you the ball effect if you hit wide open shots or not? Lebron is gonna majically fix Fish, Sasha, or Luke's shooting woes. Next Question, Has any player in history averaged double figured assist in the triangle offense? anwer's no, Lebron can average more assist because of the offense the team runs, he is the defacto PG. Who has been the Lakers assist leader for the last 12 years? Oh yeah the guy that shoots too much. If you've noticed during years when Kobe's had a better supporting cast his assist are higher. Look at his assist number from Nov this year as compared to when Pau came back from injury, big difference. I am not naive and won't say that Bryant doesn't go left sometimes, but that's why we all love him, and what makes him great. I know we've all watched times when the other players fold up in pressure situations. I vividly remember the night he scored 62 against Dallas, the next day on ESPN, from then Cold Pizza to Around the Horn to PTI, everyone said he should have gone for the record. Kobe simply stated we play to win the game, the game was won, no reason for him to play the 4th. on the flipside, when our team was down 18 against toronto before he went berzerk and scored 81 for the win, evryone criticized him for scoring that much. He is damned if he does or doesn't. In Memphis the other night when he went on the streak to close out the first half, it was to get us back in the game. Fish nor anyone else was hitting shots. The man has gotten us 4 rings, so i'll take the little side effects. And yes i credit him more than Shaq for those rings, because eeventhough Shaq was winning the Finals MVP, it was because he wasn't playing any centers that had a prayer of stopping him. What about getting past San An, Utah, Portland, Sac, cause Shaq is one of the worst pick-n-roll defenders ever. Do yall remember him getting beat with it year after year, until Kobe got his skills up. I remember Malone, Duncan, Webber and Divac, Sabonis and Sheed all torching us down low. Just calm down the universe isn't gonna explode, we will be ok granted we find adequate PG defense somewhere, and we will get ring number 5 courtesy of Mr. Bryant.

Zaira, it's bad form to copy and paste the exact same comment on three different posts. If you really feel that negative towards me that you have to repeat your name-calling over and over again, then maybe you really have someone else you're mad at, but just can't bring yourself to say it. As for the rest of my response to your assertions, read one of the other threads that you posted the same thing on.


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