Lakers Now

Round-the-Clock Purple and Gold

« Previous Post | Lakers Now Home | Next Post »

Caught in the Web: Kobe Bryant adds a new chapter to his legacy

Kobe Bryant's four championships, league and Finals MVPs, a Beijing gold medal and 12-time All-Star appearances will remain forever in Lakers' lore. On Monday, he added a new chapter to that legacy, surpassing former Lakers great Jerry West as the organization's all-time leading scorer with 25,208 points.

It came on an otherwise disappointing night with the Lakers ending their eight-game trip with a 95-93 loss to the Memphis Grizzlies, a clear sign a lack of energy was part of the reason for ending the trip on a bad note. Nonetheless, the Lakers' (37-12) defeat will serve as merely as a footnote, while Bryant's new record will be longer remembered in the history books. Case in point, Bryant's not known to publicly dwell on statistics, but even he admitted surpassing West, a mentor and the man who signed him while serving as the Lakers' general manager in 1996, as "a great honor."

The milestone raises new questions on where Bryant stands among other Lakers greats.

Sports Illustrated's Ian Thomsen suggests Bryant may be the greatest Lakers player ever. ESPN Los Angeles' Andy Kamenetzky says it all depends what the criteria is. If it's on-court play, the award goes to Bryant. It off-court personality is part of the equation, Magic Johnson has the honor. ESPN's Michael Wilbon doesn't rank the players, but he lumped Bryant with Johnson, West, George Mikan, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Wilt Chamberlain and Shaquille O'Neal as the Lakers' best all-time players

Fox Sports and SI also put together a list of all-time Lakers greats. Fox Sports ranks Bryant No 2. behind Johnson and ahead of Abdul-Jabbar, West and Shaq.

SI's Jack McCallum compiles the Lakers' 12-man all-time team. And then there's West's own take. He may have said last year that LeBron James has surpassed Bryant as a basketball player, but he says Bryant is the Lakers' best all-time player

After Bryant surpassed West's scoring record, we'll have to wait and see whether that also results in taking West's place as the NBA logo.

More Lakers links (after the jump)

-- The Memphis Grizzlies don't mind going down in Lakers history as the team Bryant faced when he surpassed West as the franchise's all-time leading scorer. The Commercial Appeal's Geoff Calkins says the team was just happy it didn't end with Bryant making a last-second game-winning shot.

-- Evidenced by an appearance in the 2008 NBA Finals and winning the 2009 league title, the Lakers' acquisition of forward Pau Gasol from Memphis did wonders for the organization. Though the trade was seen as very one-sided, ESPN Los Angeles' John Ireland points to Memphis' record (26-21) as evidence that the pickup including Kwame Brown, Javaris Crittenton, Aaron McKie, Marc Gasol and two No. 1 picks wasn't such a bad deal after all.

-- Gasol wasn't effective Monday against Memphis, however, finishing with 10 points on only four of seven shooting. He wasn't shy sharing his reason on why he and Bynum combined for only 15 points on five of eight shooting. Gasol told the Daily News' Elliott Teaford: "Obviously, we were not making a conscious effort to pound the ball inside." And what about Bryant's record-breaking night? "Now we can focus on winning again," Gasol told the O.C. Register's Kevin Ding.

-- Lakers Coach Phil Jackson wrote on a whiteboard all the remaining games before the NBA All-star break, including games against Charlotte (Wednesday), Denver (Friday) at Portland (Saturday), San Antonio (Feb. 8) and at Utah (Feb. 10). The O.C. Register's Kevin Ding reports "Jackson drew a line under the Utah game and wrote: 'Then we breathe.'" The Lakers may want to buy oxygen tanks before their face turns blue.

-- Lakers fans and The Times' T.J. Simers at least agree on this: The attention over the gun reference attributed to Bryant in a Nike ad is "much ado about nothing."

-- Simers and Ball Don't Lie's Kelly Dwyer agree on this point: Mamba is shooting way too many shots.

-- If Bulls guard Kirk Hinrich had his way, he'd stay in Chicago instead of wearing the purple and gold. "I would prefer to stay here," Hinrich told the Chicago Tribune. That decision may not be entirely up to him. Thought the organization credits his reliable 10 points and 4.6 assists per game and defensive toughness, the story says the team needs to make some "cost-cutting transaction" before the Feb. 18 deadline.

-- Let the negotiations begin. After it was reported the NBA plans to offer players "well below 50 percent" of league revenue, Lakers guard Derek Fisher, president of the players' association, says the union would never agree to such a proposal.

Tweet of the Day: "0 for 1 on buzzer beaters as a laker. [Expletive deleted] Next one" -- RONARTESTCOM (Lakers forward Ron Artest).

-- Mark Medina

Follow the L.A. Times Lakers blog on Twitter. E-mail the Lakers blog at mgmedin@gmail.com

 
Comments () | Archives (67)

The comments to this entry are closed.

Looking only at their careers as Lakers, not their other stints:


Perimeter players:

1) Magic
2) Kobe
3) West


Interior players:

1) Shaq/Kareem tied
3) Wilt
4) Mikan


Honorable mention that everyone forgets about: Elgin Baylor

I have trouble comparing perimeter to interior players from different eras....just too much changed in the game and their roles were too different. So I'd put Kobe somewhere between #2 behind Magic and #4 behind Magic, Shaq, and Kareem.

LA Guy

You have to be one of the dumbest bloggers in captivity! Gasol has wilted in almost every end game situation that's been important.....Both Cleveland games he literally disappeared. Gasol is starting to develop scapegoat characteristics that his coach Phil Jackson has mastered........"Just Blame Kobe"


Hopefully this will be Phil Jackson's last year because it is becoming increasingly clear that he is the problem with the mindset of this team. Players on this team do not understand their role and are very confused because Phil Jackson doesn't understand his role and is confused.
One of the best quotes I heard last night was Jerry West himself on NBA TV when asked about the Lakers offense..........JERRY WEST SAID "THE LAKERS DON'T RUN AN OFFENSE.......THEIR OFFENSE IS TO GIVE THE BALL TO KOBE IN SPOTS ON THE FLOOR"

I wrote in an earlier post how Phil Jackson has manipulated the local media ( who have a very limited knowledge of the game) to the point that they are "conditioned" to lazor focus on Kobe Bryant...........while he goes undetected.

Critical thinking has simply left the building when analyzing the Laker problems. Kobe goes 16/28 from the field last night for 57% shooting and KOBE'S THE PROBLEM?

If "intelligent" people used the same focus that goes toward the analysis of Kobe's shot count and just aimed it slightly toward Phil Jackson you'd have a HUGE PARADIGM SHIFT! Listen Mark Medina because this includes you too especially since you are beginning to "parrot" the same lazy and irresponsible remarks such as "the chicken and egg theory about Kobe's shooting"........Just reason with me for a minute and think about these questions that should have been asked of Phil Jackson last night but never are.

1) What does Phil Jackson take responsibility for?

The Lakers last night thanks to Kobe's aggressiveness tied the game at the end of the first quarter...........Phil starts the second quarter with none other than Luke Walton.......Rudy Gay sees Walton and immediatly goes on a run....which gets his teammates going and gets the crowd into the game and builds Memphis' momentum and confidence. Kobe comes back in and runs off about 13 straight points to get us back in the game............and what does Phil Jackson say at halftime? "Our overdependence on Kobe is why we're trailing"

Phil Jackson is a very sick man. At the root of his problems is his envy for Kobe Bryant's amazing talent. Phil as a lot of media and bloggers do......live vicariously through Walton and their EMOTIONAL attachment blinds them from reality. Why is Luke Walton on this team? He only played about 5 or 7 minutes in the first half......but that 5 or 7 minutes destroyed our momentum and will eventually sentence Walton to the same ignominy as Steve Bartman when it comes to destroying title chances.

2) Why does Phil continue to play Derek Fisher heavy minutes?

3) Why didn't Phil call ANY timeouts last night down the stretch......especially the last possession? However Phil had the arrogance and unmitigated gall to suggest that the last play wasn't what he wanted.

Despite this........NOBODY in the media followed that statement up with the simple question. "Hey Phil......If you WANTED a play on that last possession why didn't you signal for a timeout.....AND CALL A PLAY?

Phil Jackson's attitude, arrogance, and inability to adapt and change is the # 1 nemisis against the progress of this team.........funny thing is........he is going undetected.

Regardless of your curmudgeon comments. - LT

I have been communicating with you for several years now, up to now you don't understand that fans can say anything about public figures like Drew or Farmar, your beloved players. However, Kobeblitz is not a public figure, he is a pigment of imagination on the blog. He is a real person. You only know him based on his posts. If you insult him, call him with names, who do you hurt? Yourself.

Why are you so emotionally drained when they attacked your favorite players? Cool down LT. Perhaps, the accolades you received that you are a great writer gets into your system therefore you are always correct. You are becoming a dangerous blogger, no way you can hug this blog and limit it only to your sole opinion. Live and let live. If it doesn't go your way, too bad. Try, try again next time. your horoscope says: Be a good sport.

To the Spanish Fans:

I know you got hurt on criticisms made against Pau. It takes a while before you will understand the culture of this blog. I have praised Pau several times but got to be realistic also with what is going on in the past two games against Celtics and against Memphis. He is MIA. It hurts but it's true.

I have read two or three posts now clamoring for Spanish unification of NBA players. Can you really do that? Even if the Spanish government or a billionaire buys an NBA team, can he really gather all Spanish players in one team from Pau, Marc, Calderon, Rodriguez, Fernandez? Impossible, the owners of all those players should agree. Wait for a number of years till their contract expires then perhaps, you can unify some players but not all.

Ironically you cheer for the Lakers by saying Go LA then request for trade to Toronto or SA. I am familiar with Spanish custom because my motherland was under Spain for 300 years. In America, it is a give and take, guys. Praises and criticisms go hand in hand, we have an American saying, "either u love it or leave it."

Wow, pfunk, you should be coaching basketball. We need more guys like you! Why are you wasting all that intelligence on a message board?

Hey LA Guy,

I do respect your opinion and concerns about Kobe. I too get a little frustrated when Kobe shoots a lot more than necessary. However, I try to stay away from the "if Lebron does it, Kobe should too thinking" because these two have different poles of styles and personalities. They are exceptional players who figures out a way to win important games in their own dominant ways. I've accepted Kobe for he is and although I get frustrated sometimes, he brings more joy and excitement when watching him play day in and out. He makes me go WOW lol.

But in the end, it really is about the RINGS haha, right Jon K!

Heyyyy Edwin Gueco take it easy. You should understand than Pau is the franchise player for Spain. We want the best for him. We Know the current Lakers Team is The KOBE-TEAM and that is good. No Problem, he is the best player around the world period, but we want to see Pau as franchise player for another contender team and obviously, in this moment, San Antonio will be perfect because Duncan´s age. For the spaniards fans, Pau Gasol is a real Superstar and not a simple role player.

Just for fun, not necessarily my top 5 Lakers, but the top team I'd field from Laker's all timers.
PG: Magic
SG: West
SF: Kobe
PF: Worthy
C: Kareem


Sorry AK, but his performance off the court has nothing to do with him being the greatast Laker. You Kobe hater!

Kobe's legacy... hmmmm... well, once again, his LEGACY was on display last night. Once again, if your teammates run the floor 10 times and don't touch the ball, what's going to happen the 11th time they run the floor? Are they going to hustle? Would you? Why do you think rebound totals drop when Kobe starts jacking up shots? When Bynum and Gasol are involved and touching the ball, they also go after rebounds more aggresively, BECAUSE they are involved in the game. If you don't feel involved and don't think the ball is coming your way, your intensity drops off and yes, it carries over to defense as well. If Bynum or Gasol get the ball and kick it out to try and re-post, THEY NEVER GET IT BACK and friggin Fisher or Farmar will jack up a 3 pointer instead or Kobe ends up taking an off balance, miracle shot with 3 guys hanging on him. Kobe needs to reduce the wear and tear from these 30 shot games, I thought that was one of the reasons bringing in Artest was such a great move - to add years to Kobe's career but instead, Kobe has gone back to "Jacker" mode this season...


Hey jabato...Pau was a franchise player in for the grizzle's. Pau is by no mean's a role player.This team is Kobe,And Pau than role player's.

Ok, I'm dazed & confused...

Kobe had a lot of points, good...or not?

Maybe he had a lot of points because he calls the game too much to himself.

Or maybe the other players are simply not doing their job (Pau = soft, Fish = 2 points)?

i chime in to that paul gasol has been missing but hopefully return on our homestand this week. we will see until tomorow.

ok for now.

pfunk36,

you wrote: Hopefully this will be Phil Jackson's last year because it is becoming increasingly clear that he is the problem with the mindset of this team. Players on this team do not understand their role and are very confused because Phil Jackson doesn't understand his role and is confused.
One of the best quotes I heard last night was Jerry West himself on NBA TV when asked about the Lakers offense..........JERRY WEST SAID "THE LAKERS DON'T RUN AN OFFENSE.......THEIR OFFENSE IS TO GIVE THE BALL TO KOBE IN SPOTS ON THE FLOOR"

my response: I definately don't want this to be Phil's last year, but your words
do have some merit. When I look at Kobe shooting 28 shots, I do think that
is too much. Here's the thing though & LakerTom, feel free to chime in:

Why do our Bigs have a total of 5, count them *FIVE* offensive rebounds?

It seems to me that we're not getting offensive rebounds because we're not
in position. Because we're getting boxed out. So ... if we're not in position to
get offensive rebounds, are our bigs in position to shoot? If they're not in
position to shoot and their ball handling skills are *dubious* why should
Kobe give them the ball?

Another question. As we talk about Kobe shooting the ball too much, has
anyone spoken about the foul situation? In listening/watching the game
last night, the Grizzlies came up with a game plan. Get the Laker bigs in foul
trouble. And it started with Pau. A quick check on the score board shows
that Gasol had 4 pf, Bynum, Artest & LO had 5 pf's.

Can any of our bigs be aggressive when they're in foul trouble? Both Pau &
Bynum had two fouls before 6 minutes passed in the first quarter.

Pfunk36, I don't want to see Phil leave. I do think that a number of losses can
be laid at his feet. I think he's letting the players learn on their own vs. trying
to teach them. It's hard to argue with his style based upon his success.
However, most of his success has been built with a better class of player?
It's hard to be sympathetic to Pau and his hamstring when Kobe is playing
with a busted finger. It's hard to cry that the bigs need more touches when
there's a question about their hustle/positioning on the court.

just my .02 cents.


EDWIN GUECO

I agree with you and I'm from Spain. Criticism is fair and Pau has its flaws.
However you have to admit that the soft label on Gasol is quite silly. In Spain we are quite tired of Gasol being called soft having rebounded the basketball and blocking shots better than Rasheed Wallace , Amare Stoudamire or Kevin McHale in their whole career to say a few examples of players that are supossed to be tough (in one way or another).
Thins is Gasol doesn't play the "thug game" when he dunks or block shots and it's no showman.
Last year he played key D against Orlando and he was called a warrior (which was also quite funny as he has never been that kind of player) and told he wasn't soft anymore.
Thing is Gasol is one of a kind (for good AND bad).
We know who Kobe is and it seems that he (Kobe) is one of the few that recognizes what kind of special player Pau is.
I am a Laker fan since I was a kid watching Magic,Worthy and Kareem and I love that Pau plays in L.A. but I'll be a Laker with or without Gasol on the roster.


Phil Jackson's attitude, arrogance, and inability to adapt and change is the # 1 nemisis against the progress of this team.........funny thing is........he is going undetected.

Posted by: pfunk36 | February 02, 2010 at 10:34 AM

I only got a snippet of the post, but it's great for a laugh, like REALLY great. He calls out Luke, Derek, Phil, LA Guy, and Mark Medina all in one babbling post. He says that Luke killed our title chances (even though we won the title last year with Luke on the team); that Mark Medina is essentially becoming a mouthpiece for Phil; that Phil is psychologically not well and other dribble.

It also should be known that if you ask questions to which you are going to provide the answer, then they're not genuine questions (in the sense that you're trying to make epistemic progress) but they're rhetorical.

That is one of the most hilarious posts I have ever read on this blog. I didn't know the bar could be set below ground level...

Dallas Raine's Hair,

you wrote: Once again, if your teammates run the floor 10 times and don't touch the ball, what's going to happen the 11th time they run the floor? Are they going to hustle? Would you? Why do you think rebound totals drop when Kobe starts jacking up shots? When Bynum and Gasol are involved and touching the ball, they also go after rebounds more aggresively, BECAUSE they are involved in the game. If you don't feel involved and don't think the ball is coming your way, your intensity drops off and yes, it carries over to defense as well. If Bynum or Gasol get the ball and kick it out to try and re-post, THEY NEVER GET IT BACK and friggin Fisher or Farmar will jack up a 3 pointer instead or Kobe ends up taking an off balance, miracle shot with 3 guys hanging on him. Kobe needs to reduce the wear and tear from these 30 shot games, I thought that was one of the reasons bringing in Artest was such a great move - to add years to Kobe's career but instead, Kobe has gone back to "Jacker" mode this season...

my response: umm ... you're wrong.

Pau was in foul trouble before 3 minutes had gone past. Bynum was in
foul trouble before 6 minutes had gone past. I'm looking at the play-by-play
on espn.

Looking at the 2nd quarter you can see that all Lakers are shooting long
shots. There is 1 tip shot in the entire second quarter and that is by LO.
Kobe enteres at 6:56 and doesn't shoot until 4:48. Our bigs were getting
outplayed by Memphis. We were out-hustled. We were out positioned.

7:13 left in the 3rd quarter. Bynum has picked up 4 fouls. We have a
total of 2 offensive rebounds in the 3rd quarter and they both came
during free throws.

etc. etc. etc.

LA Guy, Mark G -


I find your lists interesting, and ripe for discussion (especially when Kobe decides to hang them up). LA Guy, I'd like to know more why you think it's hard to make strong comparisons across generations. Mark G - if Shaq was a bit more healthy, would you have him as your center?


Hope you two are having a good day, and don't mind pfunk; as far as I can tell from the posts, pfunk has always been a curmudgeon.

"SI.com recently reported the Celtics inquired about Hinrich, which team sources confirmed. Kobe Bryant is practically demanding the Lakers upgrade their backcourt as well." - K. C. Johnson Chicago Tribune

Oh-oh, some people will not like that story line. Immediately, I envision Fisher and Farmar with get affected with that news or rumor. That's another war path front in Lakerville. Two bench warmers are worried that their stay with the Lakers are numbered. In that article, they called Hinrich as a glue guy w/ the Bulls, well we have a better glue guy with the Lakers and his butt is glued on the bench. It will be a battle of glues, which is stickier? lol!

Pau is complaining that he's not getting any touches. How can u touch the ball when you babble it before you can hold it? Blame Kobe, so next time don't give the ball back to Kobe if you know the fact that you will never hold it again. Am I sensing a little crack on the Laker Dam? Winning in Boston covers all the faults but Lakers have inherent faults and they occurred again in Memphis. Somebody is celebrating that he's no.1 Lakers of all time, while the two giants are wondering when will they ever get the ball? Shannon is thinking of the dunking contest. Ammo is thinking of what he is going to wear on Feb 18th winter formal? Those are the curmudgeon comments of a simpleton. lol!

i was disgusted seeing Magic Johnson in the Lakers Picture at the White House. he had no business to be there. 5% ownership and as a Lakers legend shadowed the accomplishment of this young team.

i'm really happy that Obama as a BB insider reminded him how MJ beat them in the final. even showed him the "move". i understand that he wanted the opportunity to meet the president.

should i remind some of you, like MM that in primaries he was a Hillary voter? (nothing wrong with that - on the opposite shows that he is just an opportunist)

and talking of his off-court work. he is kinda despised in the AIDS politics, especially in the African-American community who do not consider him as their spoke person. only the corporate world who plaster him in all the medical adds.

Kobe is constantly reminded of the Colorado case. how come Magic is not reminded of his IGNORANCE and the fact that he also INFECTED his wife? if this will regard two different people and not family, the "infecting" will be considered a CRIMINAL case i guess in many states. also that's why Africa/AIDS and other underdeveloped countries have so many similar cases.

i know that he tries to be relevant but again his politics are wrong. a few months ago he came out to PREACH what means to REPEAT. that to PJ, Kobe and Fish?

if we consider THREE-PEAT (an experience he never had) as a double RE-PEAT, maybe PJ who has 6 and Kobe and Fish have 2, know enough how to inspire the troops.

last year Jerry West announced that Le Brick is the man. maybe he wanted to challenge Kobe. does Kobe really needs to be challenged? it was in poor taste and actually just fueled the media in their Le brick chanting mantra.

when talking about "legendary" positions and those very special and rare pedestals that r offered (more exactly "deserved" by long hard work) to very few grace becomes another facet of their character. West and Magic r poor sports. they should have welcomed Kobe in the pantheon of Lakers Greatest Players Ever. it is not a competition at that level. each player has his own pedestal.

obviously both West and Magic r insecure about that. and yes records r made to be broken and there is always room for another one.

if Kobe will have the longevity to surpass Kareem in the scoring record, i'm sure that Kareem will be happy for him because as a martial artist he knows what it means to keep your body in shape, how much dedication and perseverance is needed to continually learn and practice your skills.

Kobe's accomplishments and breaking numbers in many Lakers records are transcending "the number" of rings (how many West has in 9 attempts alongside other Hall of Famers?) that for many Lakers fan are just a bragging competition with some greenies.

there r Legends and there is KOBE. better enjoy every 0.01 second of IT. it's here, it's fresh every time and never gets old or AMAZING enough.

Hola AXL ROSE, you are Spaniard from.........??????

I am a laker since Magic-Kareem Dinasty but now, with Pau Gasol on the roster more but I am quite tired to heard "Soft" "Softie" Gasoft". Pau is European Championship MVP, silver medal at olimpics, European Champion and NBA champion too. Is Pau soft???' Please. Pau needs another team as Spurs, Raptors or something like that.

Saludos desde Barcelona y perdona por mi inglés pero aquí practico.

anybody have some analysis on # of shots kobe takes vs. team winning %?

AXL Rose,

You know that saying if you are in Rome, follow what the Romans do. Gasol was called a warrior during the playoffs, that's a long time ago and whatever is said during that time belongs to history. In Europe, they preserve and glorify history, in America they junk and live with the present. Therefore, if KG bullies, they expect Gasol to be a better bully or else they call him names. If he makes those finesse hook shots or those dazzling dunk from the center line. Wonderful, it is one second praise but 48 minutes under scrutiny of his next moves. It doesn't end until the ball game is over. If Lakers win, good people are happy and loves the winner and if Lakers lose, watch out here comes the avalanche! Two days from now, it's over go again with another game. As Mark G. don't sweat with those small *&^%# remarks. Don't get hurt with those constant criticisms. Next time, you will hear Bravo Pau, si puede but still soft. Hey, there is nothing wrong with softness. Don't feel bad, fight back and defend the softness - "Soft is beautiful, it depends on the eyes of the beholder."

KOBE make life 100 Percent easy for yourself:


"I don't know," Gasol said, shaking his head. "Obviously, we're not making a conscious effort on pounding the ball inside. So we settled a little bit too much. It's not like they were double-teaming or anything. It is what it is. It happens often."

Are the Lakers a better team when they go inside? "One hundred percent," Gasol said.

Does everybody know that?

"I'm not sure," he said.

pfunk36 & hobbit

to some degree i still ask myself why Kobe agreed to play again under PJ. i'm sure there r some behind the scenes details and maybe will never find out. or we will have Kobe's memoirs some day. i hope he does not do another MJ Hall of Fame speech.

PJ was a mediocre player and Tex's triangle is too socialist for Kobe's play. obviously lately we see variations. at the same time, remember Kobe did not finish against Dallas in his 62/3 qt. game and PJ wanted to take him out before he reached the 81. at that time Tex was behind the bench in the stand.

at the same time there are very few good coaches in the league. and even if they r during the season, they choke in the playoffs. see karl. Pop was not available and obviously Riley was not wanted. i'm sure they would never take the Lakers job. not too many options.

AXL ROSE:

Gasol is very good but comparing him to Kevin Mchale, hmmmmm...


HOLA HABATO,

I'm from Vigo.
I come to the chat very often, it's very interesting.
Quite amusing to hear opinions about Gasol from a neutral perspective (I agree with some of them, Pau sometimes hesitates and overthinks too much).
Right now he is a little bit confused by the offensive role mess in the team with Bynum and Artest.
Also quite shocking to read how fond L.A. fans are of Bynum ... here in Europe he is not considered to be better than Andrew Bogut or Nene Hilario.
I think he is where he fits perfectly (only playing in Miami with Wade can come close).
He is a Top 20 player in the league, but there is an ocean between Kobe,LeBron,Wade and the others right now (Maybe Durant and Melo will get there in the near future).
Pairing Gasol with a player like that is deadly. I think every L.A. fan recognizes this.

Greetings from Galicia.

LA Guy,

Lebron basically plays the POINT FORWARD position. His role in the Cavs offense is similar to Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Nash, etc. It's a system that generates tons of assists for the ballhandler. The wing men spread out for Lebron to go one on one, usually from the top of the key. Based on what the defenses are giving him, anytime he decides to pass, whether it's from the top of the key, or from a drive and kick out, a BIG PORTION of his passes lead directly to assists.

Kobe primarily plays SHOOTING GUARD. His role on the offense is similar to Kevin Durant, Brandon Roy, Michael Jordan, etc. He also plays in a system called the frickin TRIANGLE. Never in the history of the Triangle has anyone averaged double digit assists, or even close to it. If someone does average double digit assists in this system, it means only one thing, the triangle is not being run properly. Jordan never came close either. The reason for that is when the triangle is run properly, assists are ideally spread out amongst the entire team. There are much more "hockey second assists" (a pass that leads to a pass that leads to the assist) in this system than any other system in the NBA today.

Is Lebron a more willing passer than Kobe? Yes, can't argue there, but don't bring in these silly assist comparisons between two players playing different roles, different positions, and in different systems to make your Kobe hating point. Come up with something better.

peace

Congrats to Kobe on his landmark. He's had a long and successful career and he's worked for every point he's gotten.

As to his legacy, even if he plays another 8 years, wins several more titles, and becomes the all-time leading scorer, he won't in my mind be the greatest Laker ever. I fully acknowledge that I'm not a huge fan of Kobe personally. But follow me.

Magic Johnson IS the Lakers. He personifies them more than any other player in franchise history. He was the heart and soul of the Team of the Decade that was "first among equals" in an era of truly great teams -- the Sixers, Celtics and Pistons. His run ended prematurely, but he got his team to the Finals 9 times and, when healthy, never lost to a lesser team in the Finals. The Lakers' 80's run is the cornerstone of the Laker Mystique.

Jerry West is the Logo and Mr. Clutch. He played with legends, like Magic, but he fell victim to the Celtics' Dynasty. Still, he was one innovation (3-point line) away from winning multiple titles. And he personally built 2 different Laker powerhouses in 2 different decades. Kobe may have the rings, but in terms of chicken and egg, there's no Kobe Bryant As We Know Him without Mr. West. Kobe can surpass him as a player, but *never*, in my mind, as a Laker.

There's legitimate debate up and down the line, but as I see it, Kobe's role in the dissension and breakup of a potential dynasty diminishes his legacy. His role was *quite smaller than I long thought* (and I have said so, here, numerous times), and he has proven to be a superior player, but Magic and Jerry would have handled the situation far better than he (and Shaq) did. But there's little doubt in my mind he'll be a top-5 All-Time, not just Top 5 Laker, before he's done.

Just a short response to pfunk36 – THIS IS YOU, WHO IS PROBABLY DUMBEST BLOGGER ON THE WHOLE ENTIRE BLOG, blaming Phil for everything, starting from genocide in Sudan, collapse of global economy and whatever bad happened today.
Your everyday rants regarding Phil inability to coach and etc. became so laughable, no one on this blog, I bet, even bother to read it anymore. You just repeating every loser coach in NBA mantra “If I would’ve have MJ and Pippen or Shaq/Kobe I would be winning too” How many titles MJ had before Phil took over? Zero, exactly the same amount as Shaq and Kobe in LA without Phil. If you think our recipe for success when Kobe takes 28 shots per game, let me be the one who reminds you what all Lakers faithful experienced back in 2004-2007 when Kobe routinely get 40+ points per game and Lakers would loose anyway because you keep forgetting one simple fact – no matter how great Kobe is, basketball after all it’s a team sport. Pau did not have a good game, but let me tell you one thing, if you mathematically challenged, 4 out of 7 exactly the same % as 16 out of 28, just multiply both by 4. And if you think our recipe for success Kobe taking 28 shots and our bigs (Pau and Drew) combined 10, I’m pretty sure majority including coaching staff have totally different idea. This is you, who is a very sick man, talking about Phil's jealousy? You got be out of your mind completely. Phil doesn’t have to prove to anyone, esp. to you, anything, he is already most successful coach in all pro sports.

Somehow when Kobe shoot a lot, and 28 it’s a lot, esp. after he missed first 4 or 5 it’s Ok, he is trying to shot himself out of slump, but everyone else – it’s not OK, don’t you think this is kind of double standard?
We lost yesterday because besides Kobe and Ron, no one else showed up for this game. How about LO? Pau having a bad game, and it’s not very common occurrence, but he is routinely bashed here, at the same time LO playing probably 1 good game and 3 bad ones usually gets a free pass. How about Drew? He was beaming with confidence after Boston’s game; mentioning he would like to play against real center, well how about against Marc Gasol? He looks pretty real center to me. How about our bench inability to make even open shots and being routinely outscored by majority of opposing benches almost every game?

lakerfan,

You're right, Pau is not thug as Kevin McHale

If I was Kobe, i would give Pau and Drew the ball and feed them until they can't eat no more and see if they come through as opposed to looking to Kobe to bail them out or set them up for easy ass shots when they struggle to find position and or create their own easy buckets or take their man one on one when they have mismatches..

I would do that and then the whole blog would cry that Kobe is purposely trying to lose the game and become the hero!!

@ Caliphilosopher, the Center spot is obviously problematic because you're talking about Kareem, Wilt and Shaq. How do you choose between the three? It's going to be a fairly subjective call. Shaq was in his prime when he was in LA. Kareem had the most unstoppable shot in the history of the game and was a better FT shooter than Shaq or Wilt. Wilt, well Wilt was Wilt, but he wasn't asked to score when he played with the Lakers. For me I end up going with Kareem even though the Showtime years were not his prime years. I think he's a better pressure player than Shaq in general, but esp at the FT line.
_______________________________________________________
PF is kind of a pain also. It's one of those positions where the Lakers don't have a pure PF legend. If Pau had been here longer, I might have picked Pau. I'm not sure if Worthy is even considered a PF anymore. He did matchup with McHale at times and certainly could play that spot back then.

I don't know if I answered your question Cali, but those are my convoluted thoughts at this point of the day. I put it out there just for fun.


LAKERFAN

I agree with your, hmmmmmm ¡ ah,ah,ah !
I was just saying that McHale was never labeled as soft and he was a mediocre rebounder and shot blocker, Parish did that job for Boston.
However Pau has the chance (if focused) to match those 3 titles and you bet that he can score 25 a night is given the shots consistently (which I belive is not such a great idea really, he has a much better field goal percentages and assist rate going for 18 p 10 r 4 a per game).
Funny how Chris Kaman or Brad Miller never get that soft label being much more inconsistent and worse rebounders than Pau. Is that because they are americans ? (no irony here) Does basketball press in U.S. underestimate european players by definition ?

I am very interesting in your answer to this questions .... as many euro bloggers coming to this blog.

LA Guy and other Kobe doubters,

I agree with the Kobe-haters here that the offense was too Kobe-centric to a certain degree, but let's talk about the second half. During half time, the coaches told the players that they cannot be overly reliant on Kobe, so what happens when the second half starts? Kobe goes into FACILITATOR MODE to start the second half and tries to create offense for his teammates, who cannot buy a bucket. The team looks exhausted from the long road trip, everyone is missing shots, and the offense completely stalls, while the Grizz make a run. That's when Kobe decides to take over again, and immediately brings the team back into the game.

Many of you might disagree with PFunk's critiques, but one thing he states is absolutely true, "the Kobe-hating media has conditioned you to question his shot attempts". It's a trigger happy reaction that has been ingrained in your heads by the Kobe hating media for YEARS. You must unbrainwash yourself people. Kobe can shoot 30 for 30 for 70 points, and people will say he is hurting his team. They said it when he scored 81, although he brought the team back from a deficit. They said it when he played with Smush, Kwame, Luke and Cook. They blamed him for not trusting his teammates, when Kobe-ball was absolutely necessary to get into the playoffs, and where are these scrubs now? The Lakers just went to back to back finals and they are still questioning Kobe's ability to find that balance between scorer and playmaker. He found that balance for the last two years, but they still question him. If Kobe wins the next four championships, it won't matter, they will still question him.


EDWIN GUECO

you wrote: " soft is beautiful, it depends on the eyes of the beholder".

Funny how Chris Kaman, Brad Miller, Rasheed Wallace never got that soft label being all of them much more inconsistent and worse rebounders than Pau. Is that because they are americans ? (no irony here) Does basketball press in U.S. underestimate european players by definition ?

I am very interesting in your answer to this questions .... as many euro bloggers coming to this blog.

Some might want to consider this...

In 8 of the last 9 Laker losses, Kobe took more FGs than his season average.
In 7 of the last 9 Laker losses, Kobe took more 3pt FGs than his season average.
In 7 of the last 9 Laker losses, Kobe took less FTs than his season average.

There appears to be a trend here. Folks can flame me but these are the facts.

Not only is it the number of shots but it appears to be the type of shots. The excess of 3s and the dearth of FTs seems to imply that in these games Kobe is settling for perimeter shots instead of penetrating into the paint where he either gets fouled or passes off to the bigs for easy buckets.

The big guys need someone to pass them the ball to get their shots, that's just the way basketball works. They shoot a high percentage because they typically don't fire up shots from the perimeter. The Lakers are not a perimeter team and when they play like one they are much more likely to get beat.

Kobe's at his best when he's penetrating the lane and forcing other defenders to come off their man. He's a great player but he's never been among the leaders in 3pt FG% and he hasn't shot 3s this poorly in 8 years. That's understandable with his finger injury but he needs to realize that his first priority should be to take the ball to the basket.

I find it rather humorous that Gasol and Bynum can complain bout touches when neither of them can be aggressive enough to demand the damn ball. They both look lost at times and Gasol was lost from the celtics game!

i found these 3 comments from Keen Observer that i totally DIG on the live chat of yesterday's game. some food for thoughts. after the Clev. game i'm sure i'm not the only one who had flashes of the 2008 finals regarding Pau and LO. because Shaq ate AB's lunch and AB as dessert.

indeed, keen observations: the argument is with Lakerfan_71 or something like that.

Keen Observer:  
Fact is that we have a mentally weak team generally, other than Kobe and Artest and to some extent Fish, the rest are just weak minded


Keen Observer:  
71, i disagree. It is not by coincidence that Lamar has not improved since he came into the league..Gasol could not win at Memphis. It is not by conincidence at all. Jordan's Bulls defered to him all the time. But would you call Rodman and the rest weak minded?

Keen Observer:  
But this is a trend that has ben going on for years. It is nothing new. Teams know what to do to the Lakers (especially lamar and Gasol to get them off their game)


I NEED A BASKETBALL GURU

Just to clarify what you guys understand by being soft vs being tough.

tough: the physical beast, a gym rat, pounds at the service of the banging on the paing with the hit on the chest when dunking (with the thug face).

soft: the dancing post, the fundamentals and the pass (with the poker face). If borned in Europe or China the better. Usually fast and skinny 7 footers.

Am I right?

CaliPhil:

I find it hard to compare across eras because rule changes and style changes make the relative value of different positions go up and down. Changes in the key, the three-point line, changes in how they call fouls, changes in illegal defense, and general style changes in the league make the relative worth of say, a traditional center, or a slashing guard, something that isn't static.

AXL Rose,

"Chris Kaman, Brad Miller, Rasheed Wallace"

Do compare Pau with those punks? You mean caveman, bully and technical 'sheed, do you think they escaped from criticisms here because they're Americans, no way Jose. You escape criticisms only if you are a winner, see what they call Bynumb or Odumb. When they make double-double, oh they are the players that we need & I could hear unending hymn of dynasty 70-12 still in February.

"Does basketball press in U.S. underestimate european players by definition?"

nope no racism involved here. it's nature of lakers fans sensitivity on performance and winning. Supposing Artest made that 3 pt shot, do you think a helluva of negative posts will flood the blog?...no it's celebrations, pandemonium by the fanatics w/ bold headlines: Watch Out for the Beast.
AXL Rose, there is no place for thin skin in the Lakers Blog, always wear your helmets and armour and be ready for the war of words. Hola, Pau is still soft until he gets it and prove everyone is wrong on the next game. That is how to cure the softness attack. Just do it.

BTW, those are curmudgeon opinions of a simpleton so don't take my insights on face value.

Hobbitmage,

Look, Dude!! I find that I am agreeing with you way too much. Maybe I should feign opposition just to shake this place up a bit!

At any rate, I find it distressing that people are saying Kobe was in "jack-mode" on a night when he was shooting 57%. WTF?!?!

Also, I find it difficult to believe that Andrew could have had more looks at the basket, from the bench? Both bigs were in foul trouble, that is where their aggressiveness went.

Remember, Andrew is a former foul magnet. You can tell he still gets spooked about that from time to time. He knows that fouls affect his playing time. He will abandon defense altogether if he feels the refs have a quick whistle. But, I've never mentioned it because the kid's only 22. That will happen.

Kareem had a problem with that in his career until he started taking up Yoga and Kung Fu. After that, he was probably the best angry player the league ever saw. Even Chick used to chronicle the way Kareem learned to channel his rage in the game.

Bynum has to learn that, and until he does, the refs can most certainly take him out of the game. Period.

Gasol? He was out-muscled, by the same three dudes, the refs. Unlike 2 years ago when that was like every game, this year, for some reason, he can bully back sometimes, and not others. It is really one of only two inconsistent parts of his game left. The other inconsistent part is his late-game fortitude. That comes and goes, too.

So, there is this laundry list of failings and short-comings and bad decisions and bad plays and yadda, yadda, yadda, and it comes down to wide-open three in the corner (the highest % three in the game) by a player who was perfect from that distance. Kobe hit him perfectly.

Perfect game, perfect play, ball didn't go in.

It happens. Not even that great Bull's team went 82-0. Because it can't be done just because of plays like that.

But, what are you gonna do? Trade him? Why? Only Kobe can be Kobe.

At any rate, if Andrew and Pau aren't going to be aggressive. Kobe isn't going to give them the ball. He better not. Never, ever, ever.

If you are a grown man. A millionaire who stands SEVEN FEET TALL, you shouldn't need another man to give you your aggressiveness. Period. Kobe should not have Bynum's and Gasol's stones in his pockets.

What should Kobe see when he comes down the court? What he sees from time to time (but NOT last night), either Andrew or Pau has got some hapless opponent forced so deep under that basket that all that person can do is chat with the photographers and flirt with the cheerleaders!

Kobe will give that person the ball. Guarenteed.

Kobe's assist numbers are absurdly high for a SHOOTING GUARD. Who can possibly find fault in that? He gets more assists then half of the point guards in the league. I mean he literally gets more assists that half the point-guards in this league.

The problem really is, what are the rest of these yahoo's doing?

Like I've said before, count me as a disciple. I'm drinking your Kool-Aid, fo' sho'!

--FEARless

LAKER TRUTH - first of all, Lebron does not play "point forward" in the Cavs set offenses, though he certainly does go to that role often in crunch time or when certain players are out of the game. Lebron is just playing as a swingman who can both score and create shots for others. Despite what several people on this blog seem to think, the offense does not always run through him, though the fact that the Cavs haven't had a real point guard for years has forced him to accept more of the ball-handling duties than he would otherwise.

Second of all, the triangle offense gives players like Kobe tremendous opportunities for assists. Very few players have averaged double-digit assists in any NBA offense in recent memory, and they've all been traditional point guards. The triangle offense actually takes the ball away from the point guard and gives more opportunities for assists to the swingmen. Michael Jordan averaged 8.0 assists/game one season and averaged at least 5.5 assists/game 7 times in his career, and he never had the inside presence to feed that Kobe has enjoyed with Shaq and then Gasol (actually, Jordan never even had an inside presence as good as Bynum). But Kobe has never averaged more than 6.0 assists in any season, and only got to 5.5 assists/game 3 times, and NEVER since Shaq left. So sorry, but the triangle offense is not the culprit here.

aztronut,

Your points are salient, and I HATE to agree. But I must because you make logical sense. But, you mustn't paint this current stretch with too broad a brush. It hasn't always been the case in years past or this season that # of Kobe FGA is inversely proportional to the # of Lakers wins. That change has happened not since Kobe injured his finger, but since it was re-aggravated three games later.

Also, Kobe can't rely on penetrate and dish as much anymore either. His turnovers have gone WAY up since the finger. It is what it is. Its nobody's fault. We just have to deal with it and move on. We all should be well aware that Kobe and only be Super Kobe for short, carefully planned stretches of games. Hopefully, he chooses the right time to bring out the Mamba and we win.

Sometimes he won't. Or, sometimes he summons the Mamba, and the Mamba does not materialize.

The recipe, as it is, is still a winning one. Just not at the rate that some here find acceptable. But, neither Kobe nor PJ seem overly concerned.

Why? Because this is only the regular season.

So, yeah I agree with you. But, I would still like to reserve the right to say that you are wrong? OK?

--FEARless

Posted by: lakersrydeordie | February 02, 2010 at 01:13 PM

brilliant. and i expect after that experiment for Kobe to do like MJ did on Kerr and to punch them in the mouth. one for every game during the week and twice on weekends. i'm learning the "punching" lessons from our elder Jon K.

Jon K who has the audacity:

I would have rather that Kobe scored less points and we won the game.
I could not watch last night's game, but something is clearly wrong if Pau and Andrew were scoring so few points.
Posted by: Jon K. | February 02, 2010 at 07:37 AM

Jon K.

1 watch the game
2 have some coffee or tea in the morning
3 write
and
4 think twice before you PUNCH (your favorite word after HATE) the post button

aztronut,

>>>Some might want to consider this...
>>>
>>>In 8 of the last 9 Laker losses, Kobe took more FGs than his season average.
>>>In 7 of the last 9 Laker losses, Kobe took more 3pt FGs than his season average.

Worthless. You're trying to implay that Kobe taking more shots CAUSES the loss. But you don't support that theory at all. You took no other factor but Kobe's shooting into account.

How did Pau shoot in those games? How many times did he turn the ball over?
And Odom? And Bynum?

How many shots did Fish brick? How many times did he drive into the lane and get blocked?

When did Kobe take most of his shots? Were they balanced throughout the game? Or did the Lakers fall behind and Kobe was trying to shoot them back into the game?

Were any of the other primary offensive weapons (Bynum, Gasol) in foul trouble in those games?

----

In short, the stat you quote is meaningless. It is a correlation, but it does not prove a cause and effect relationship.

If you want to do a deeper analysis and you want to try to prove a cause-and-effect, then here are some controls you should look for:

1. When did Kobe take the majority of his shots?
2. How were his teammates shooting for the game?
3. How many turnovers were the team committing?
4. How many free throws did his teammates miss?
5. How many free throws did the opponent get?
6. What percentage did the opposing team shoot?
(insert other factors here)

What you need to do to prove the point you're trying to make is to show that there's a higher correlation between Kobe's # of shots and losing than there is between every other factor... Pau's %, Bynum's %, team turnovers, etc.

It appears that some people are myopic; the real season starts in the playoffs.

Posted by: Caliphilosopher | February 02, 2010 at 07:47 AM

i guess only if the team makes the playoffs. otherwise is called fishing. obtuse?

Caliphilosopher,

I wonder if these people are aware of how distasteful they are as human beings.

Posted by: Jon K. | February 02, 2010 at 08:01 AM

"distasteful" coming from a guy who has 2 words in his vocabulary: hate and punching people in the face. one PhD wannabe consoling the other one. they r both "sensible" at semantics on a basketball blog. forgot, Jon K. is also a spiritual person. or a Zen "wannabe" Master. semantics, semiotics or just semi-.

Jon K,
"There's nothing to celebrate here"

indeed, Clippers fans do not know what celebration is. maybe beating the Lakers once or twice during a decade. or scoring 3 points in a quarter. some team has to celebrate the lowest output ever. ask LO. he was part of it.

do the Clippers have any Hall of Famer? just remembered, Baylor had some position with the team. does that count?

"There's nothing to celebrate here"
Jon K

indeed, Clippers fans do not know what celebration is. maybe beating the Lakers once or twice during a decade. or scoring 3 points in a quarter. some team has to celebrate the lowest output ever. ask LO. he was part of it.

do the Clippers have any Hall of Famer? just remembered, Baylor had some position with the team. does that count?

if the Clippers ever win a DIVISION title, where do they hang the banner: in the visitors locker room or in the home team one. or the they put it in the hallway in between? or Davis Sterling will cover the windows of one of his dilapidated building. helps to keep it warmer.

FEARless,

"Your points are salient, and I HATE to agree. But I must because you make logical sense."

Thanks, that's about the nicest possible thing you could have said.

"It hasn't always been the case in years past or this season that # of Kobe FGA is inversely proportional to the # of Lakers wins...Kobe can't rely on penetrate and dish as much anymore either. His turnovers have gone WAY up since the finger."

That isn't exactly what I was getting at. I think perhaps the problem is the type of shots he's taking rather than necessarily the number. Kobe's TOs may be up significantly from last year but they're not really out of family with his career average. I don't see his finger injury affecting his ability to penetrate as much as I think it affects his outside shot some nights. Regardless, Kobe's always been more effective in the paint than on the perimeter, IMHO.

"So, yeah I agree with you. But, I would still like to reserve the right to say that you are wrong? OK?"

The last thing I want to do is to keep you speaking your mind.

LongTimeLakerFan,

"Worthless. You're trying to implay that Kobe taking more shots CAUSES the loss. But you don't support that theory at all. You took no other factor but Kobe's shooting into account."

Actually, no. I think you're trying to create a strawman here. My hypothesis is that Kobe needs to take better shots and spend more time taking the ball to the basket. Those numbers I posted are just a few facts that support this conjecture.

"In short, the stat you quote is meaningless. It is a correlation, but it does not prove a cause and effect relationship...If you want to do a deeper analysis and you want to try to prove a cause-and-effect..."

It is difficult for any such statistics to be meaningless, I find this a bit hyperbolic. A correlation is defined as a cause and effect relationship, the only real question is to the degree of correlation. As you seem to confirm later on in your attack...

"What you need to do to prove the point you're trying to make is to show that there's a higher correlation between Kobe's # of shots and losing than there is between every other factor."

But, as I have already stated, this is not what I was trying to assert at all. I was merely offering up an observation based on watching almost every Laker game this season (and for quite a number of years past as well), and presenting a few corroborating pieces of data to go along with it. Thank you for attending, please try not to take my remarks quite so personally.

I wonder of some of you are Lakers fans or simply Kobe fans. Nearly every game where he closes in on taking 30 shots the Lakers lose. Simple as that. Close loss, or blowout, they still lose. Forget the fouls last night. Against Portland he took 37 shots to Bynum's 13 shots. Keep in mind Portland had no center for that game. Result: Loss.

It doesn't matter what people think about Gasol and Bynum. If those two don't get it going the Lakers won't repeat. They need the ball in their hands. If not, we could very well be looking at 2004 all over again. Just because Pau is in a slump doesn't mean he shouldn't touch the ball. It is kind of hard for him and Bynum to learn how to play off one another when neither of them gets many shots.

I would have loved a Lakers win last night more than Kobe's record. He was going to break it anyway.

i guess only if the team makes the playoffs. otherwise is called fishing. obtuse?

Posted by: the newbie | February 02, 2010 at 02:30 PM

The Newbie (hope you didn't mind that I capitalized your screen name; please tell me if you prefer the lower-case version like "bell hooks"):

Well, I wouldn't necessarily say that it is obtuse, but if you don't mind inductive-statistical inferences, I don't know of any team that was in 1st place in the conference at this point in the season which ended up not making the playoffs. You are correct though; make the playoffs first. I just happen to think that we're going to do so.

j

I am not in l.a. so I don't get all the news that you all get. I am in memphis and I have been a fan of the lakers for years. I hear so much about kobe needs to do this and kobe needs to do that. Him and phil has brought us 4 rings people and all you can do is complain about their methods. I know Kobe will not get his due until he retires, but the constant naggin about his game is silly. Please let the media hate on kobe. they do it so well. Lebron and his 10 freethrows a game has plenty of time for you fake lakers fans to brag on him. Can kobe just play a season without you judging him for trying to win games. Pau said we can win if you give us the ball. He had the ball in cleveland and what happen twice. He had the ball in boston in the finals, what happen. you all keep going in kobe's past. well go into theirs. you want phil gone a man that has 10 rings. 10 rings, I say. I am really hurt to be on a l.a. page and read this from fans. I know were kobe the basketball player will stand as a lakers, IN MY HEART. Go lakers.

T. Rodgers

"Nearly every game where he closes in on taking 30 shots the Lakers lose."

Actually the Lakers are 6-5 this season when Kobe takes 28 or more shots in a game. I don't think it's so much the number, as the quality, of the shots he takes that affects the outcome. Of course, if when he focuses on taking better shots he almost necessarily takes fewer. It's not as easy to find good shots as it is to just shoot.

That being said, I still think that Kobe has earned the right to take as many shots as he wants, or at least as many as PJ will let him take.

Hatercreater,

"j"

Nice j, but can you play d?

the newbie,

Hey, when I move back to California (which I AM) I'll be glad to meet up with you and punch you in the mouth (I'd actually rather shatter your pelvis instead). We'll see how you like to talk stupid smack talk then.

Unlike you, I can actually fight and my words aren't empty.

What do we play for? RINGS!!!!

Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.

GO LAKERS!!!

"Comments are moderated, and will not appear until they've been approved."???

T. Rogers - you're completely right. There are people on this blog who might have been Laker fans once, but they're little more than Kobe fans now. It's been like that since he first came to the Lakers, when he had fan-boys who supported his every move no matter what he did (who else gets voted in as an all-star game starter when they haven't even started a game for their own team yet?) On this blog people were supporting everything he did even when the Lakers went three years without winning a playoff series, even when Kobe gave up and stopped trying in a game 7. They'll be that way until he retires. Then, if we're lucky, they might become Laker fans again instead of Kobe fanboys.

This is really hard to swallow coming from Pau. In back to back situations Kobe came down and passed it inside to Pau and Bynum. AND THEY BOTH MISSED EASY BASKETS. Quit complaining about Kobe shooting to much. If either of those baskets are made its a tie game and into overtime.

Stephen
San Dimas

LA Guy... erm... try and make LeBronze play with the injuries Kobe has right now, and had ALL SEASON LONG, and all of his supposed stats will DISAPPEAR faster than oxygen around a candle that burns under a glass.
Guy is a crybaby.
PLEASE.
You'ere clearly LeBroniac.
At least be sincere. Nothing wrong with it. But maybe this isn't really your forum or your team. Don't hide behind a finger.

To all of you who wants Gasol traded: you're clearly under the influence of something.

Pau is here to stay.

Marc is a good player, but I fear he costs way too much.

I'd like to see the bros together HERE though. BUt NOT at the expense of Bynum. Just my two cents.

About the debate on Kobe... I am ready with a longer post soon.

Gotta gather thoughts.

Yes Zaira, now let's use the injury excuse. I'm sure Kobe has a special injury that prevents him from passing but makes it no problem to jack up 28 shots.

I could just have easily said, "Have Kobe play with a team that was worst in the league before he came, with a coach that doesn't know how to draw up an offense, and with 2 of his best 3 teammates out, and see how he does." In all the time I've watched the NBA, I haven't seen anyone play the "I'm sick but I'm still a man and playing!" or the "I'm injured but I'll tough it out!" card more than Kobe. Seriously, how long ago did he jam his finger? Seven weeks ago? And we're still using it as the excuse for why he can shoot but not pass?

newbie - you can use name-calling all you want, but you're just making up stuff. When you have to denigrate other posters rather than just making logical arguments, it's clear you've already lost. Yes, I like the way Lebron plays - just like I like the way that Brandon Roy, Shane Battier, and Tim Duncan play. Just like I liked the way that Magic Johnson played. I like players who play the game right - I was a basketball coach for a number of years and I know who I would want my players to emulate. I'm not a "Cleveland fan" and don't have a single connection to the team, and I've never posted on a Cleveland board, bought a single bit of Cleveland/Lebron merchandise, or lived anywhere near the Great Lakes. I've been an LA resident for my entire adult life, and this is the home team, through better and through worse. Kobe's done much better. Right now he's not doing as good as he good. Like I said, I like for guys to play the game right.

As far as Lebron's 23 point quarter, you must have ignored the fact that he had 3 assists in the quarter, and that his teammates had 23 points as well. In fact, he only ended 10 possessions compared to his teammates' 14, and he ended the game with 13 assists. So no, he didn't disrupt the offense for his teammates.

Compare that to Kobe - Kobe ended 12 possessions in the first quarter and only scored 12 points off of it. You're focused on Lebron's 23 points, but you missed that he actually took fewer shots than Kobe did and set up his teammates more, he was just more efficient with the shots he took. His teammates had 13 shots in the 1st quarter alone, whereas Kobe's teammates were still stuck on only 16 shots into the 3rd quarter, even counting the 6 minutes that Kobe wasn't on the floor. Do you understand the difference?


Connect

Advertisement

In Case You Missed It...

Video

All Things Lakers »

Your database for all things purple and gold.

Find a Laker

Search a name

Select a season

Choose one of our lists



Categories


Archives
 

About the Bloggers


Bleacher Report | Lakers

Reader contributions from Times partner Bleacher Report

More Lakers on Bleacher Report »



Get Alerts on Your Mobile Phone

Sign me up for the following lists:


In Case You Missed It...