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Assessing Kobe Bryant's standing in Lakers history

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In the wake of the debate about Kobe Bryant's high volume of shots versus the team's lack of inside presence in the Lakers' 95-93 loss Monday to the Memphis Grizzlies, Coach Phil Jackson and Derek Fisher shared their theories on how Bryant will ultimately be ranked among the Lakers' all-time greats.

Here's Jackson's main criteria when putting together an all-time list: "How has their team done during their tenure as a player?" So what is his list?

"It's going to be Magic [Johnson], Kareem [Abdul-Jabbar], Kobe," Jackson said. Those are the people, you know Jerry [West]. He didn't win as many championships in that era. They were always blocked by the Celtics. I guess basically that's what you look at."

The Times' Bill Plaschke ranked Bryant third behind Johnson and West. He chose Johnson because of his five championships compared with Bryant's four, "his revolutionizing of the assist changed basketball, and his leadership in community business development has changed several inner cities. All this while serving as a worthy pioneer in the battle against the former stigma and shame associated with HIV."

Plaschke lumped together West's body of work as a player and general manager: "He won only one championship as a player, but then as club executive helped build eight more," he wrote. "As a player, he was such a solid presence, the league's logo is a drawing of his silhouette. As a general manager, he's the one who brought Bryant here in the first place."

I put together a solid list on other writers' initial assessments on Bryant's standing in Lakers history, but I think Fisher added a new wrinkle to the debate.

I'd like to do a poll on who belongs at the top of the Lakers' all-time greatest list. But on the chance I'd leave someone's name out, I'll just open the floor through the comments section below.

-- Mark Medina 

Follow the L.A. Times Lakers blog on Twitter. E-mail the Lakers blog at [email protected]

Photo: Kobe Bryant finishes off a dunk against Memphis on Monday night that made him the Lakers' all-time scoring leader, moving ahead of Jerry West. Bryant finished with 44 points in the loss. Credit: Mike Brown / EPA

 
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Honestly I was seriously disturbed last night but now more like delirious... I mean.. Dfish going to the press and demanding the rock from kobe??

Is there anything more laughable in all of sports?

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AXL,
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>>> PHIL JACKSON IS A MASTER.
Well said, AXL. It’s just Kobe being Kobe and Phil being Phil.
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MM
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Excellent summary. Your two cents are right on.
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HOP SING
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Your name is an insult to anyone of Chinese heritage. It is akin to an African American
posting as Little Black Sambo.
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Tom

A very timely article. What seems to be getting lost is that I think we all agree Kobe is a great, great player. I would rank him in the top 20 of all time at this point BUT he still doesn't seem to recognize that when he goes into JACK mode, it freezes up all the other players on the team. You want them to go in and rebound hard and play defense hard but if they don't feel like they are a part of the game, WHY are the other players, especially Bynum going to get worked up if they don't feel like they are really involved in the game. Look what happens when you feed the ball to Bynum a couple of times, the next thing you know he's blocking somebody's shot, he's running the floor trying to post his man up early in the shot clock and so forth.

- When Bynum doesn't touch the ball... he drifts... what does anyone expect? he's a young player, he NEEDS to feel involved. I'm just shocked Kobe hasn't figured this out, all these years later. It's his greatest flaw. Plus, these guys (Bynum, Artest, Odom and Gasol) could take a huge physical load off Kobe, prolonging his career but so far, Kobe just keeps bashing away, putting more miles on than he has to...


How did this descend into a Kobe bash?

Fish and Pau are talkin' team not bad Kobe.

Turn the rage on the Nuggets.

If dfish wants to act like a team leader that's fine but only if he shuts his piehole.. Its one thing to play like absolute crap but another to go talkin a big game to the media... Some team leaders let their play do the talkin other let their mouth but ALL TEAM leaders must walk the walk and back up all the talk. This guy has been missing wide open shots and is now askin for the rock. Hahaha

He's been riding kobes coattails his entire career... One can argue he even owes every dollar of his ridiculously overpaid lucrative contract to kobe.. We all know how he mightly struggled in golden state and utah and couldve easily been out of the league and just an afterthought.. suddenly he's reunited with kobe, his career is resurrected and extended another 5+ years.... So dfish please show a little more gratitude and just STFU and be lucky ur playing.


Everyone knows (I stated this previously) that to me Kobe is already #2 Lakers of all time behind Magic, and at the moment tied with Kareem actually, nore than West (my personal opinion, of course... but what isn't, in such a topic?).

Though really, when we come about naming the top 5, any of Magic, Kareem, West, Chamberlain and Kobe might have his own climb or slip in the list (but so far, Magic stays at the top. Let's see at the end of Kobe's career though. This list now it's simply not mattering. Accomplishment comes at the end of the road. It pushes players the right way.)

Night game again. back in LA and so back at dawn wakin up.
I won't be able to chat probably again BUT, beside reading, I have decided to buy an internet key so I will be able soon to connect from my home laptop, avoiding the desktop pc which stays in the studio.
This means that in a short while, certainly after the All Star Game, I will be effectively able to be again in chat.

(iPhone... why thou? ;))

Hugs to the fam ;)

I always thought Dolph Shayes has been totally forgotten in this discussion.

HOP SING, Your name is an insult to anyone of Chinese heritage. It is akin to an African American posting as Little Black Sambo. Posted by: LakerTom | February 03, 2010 at 10:01 AM

OUT FREAKIN STANDING. You took the workds out my mouth! KUDOS, LAKERTOM!!!
Mamba24*** Spoken by one who is 1/4 Chinese, 1/4 Native American and 1/2 African American **

I'd like to do a poll on who belongs at the top of the Lakers' all-time greatest list. But on the chance I'd leave someone's name out, I'll just open the floor through the comments section below.

-- Mark Medina
--
You need to have seen them play live since the stats or youtube highlights by themselves do not give you the complete picture.
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The one person who saw the Lakers play up close and personal from the 1960's to early 2000's was Chick Hearn. And whenever Chick was asked to name the GLOAT, he would always reply, without any hesitation, that it was ELGIN BAYLOR.
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It would have been interesting to get Hot Rod Hunley's choice of the GLOAT since he was Chick's contemporary and would have seen everything from the 1960's to the current crop of Lakers.

Is Kobe retiring?

Can't we assess this when he does? Last I checked he is still building his legacy. He still has a team to lead to a few more championship.

I don't think the Cavs or Nuggets care who the GLOAT is.

Again, please let us go back to basketball. The Coach should lay down the plan. Whatever happened to the past belongs to the past just like the Championship last year. We live in the present so let us move on.

I laid down in the previous thread the three squares I have envisioned in addressing these apparent problems. Someone would say that it is just a CURMUDGEON opinion, nonetheless it is still a privileged opinion based on business and sports protected by free speech.

I don't see any problem with what Fisher said. Of course, they have sugar coated the interview and expressed it in English with double meaning. It like Brutus praising Caesar as a honorable man after he just deliberately stabbed him to death. He is doing it for the good of Rome, in this scenario for the good of the Lakers. It is all about Michiavelli saying things in the most appropriate manner in order to appear good.

If there is recrimination on the part of Fisher, it comes from the Chicago Tribune article which I quote: "SI.com recently reported the Celtics inquired about Hinrich, which team sources confirmed. Kobe Bryant is practically demanding the Lakers upgrade their backcourt as well." - K. C. Johnson Chicago Tribune Kobe's demands affect the Lakers PG's that is Fisher and Farmar as well as Brown. Since Shannon can be #2, he doesn't care less, he is just focused on the dunking contest while the other two are concerned with their future livelihood.

I don't know also whether this blog has been politicized whether there are vested interests blogging here to protect players or promote other players. Sometimes you don't want to believe, but s**t politics has its own legs and arms to go for lobbying even in a blogosphere setting.

KOPE BRYANTS STANDING ASSESSED
No standing need to be assessed, Kobe Bryant is simply the best
Mj played when he had the Flu, the Black Mamba did that too.
Did MJ play with just one hand, Hell no but Kobe Bean can
Who scored more than an entire team? Just one man, Kobe Bean
Who was cheated out of at least 3 MVP’s, Right again the names Kobe
Lets see what else Kobe has done, as I recall in one game he scored 81.
What do the greatest of greats got, most of them hit the winning shot
Well in his time in Laker heaven, Kobe Bryant has hit twenty seven.
If you are great you gotta have Rings, Kobe Bryant has 4 of those things
To be great be chosen as an all-star, Kobe has been chosen 12 times so far.
MVP in an all star game, Kobe has 3 and will have more of the same.
When it’s all said and done, KOBE BRYANT IS NUMBER ONE!!

How did this descend into a Kobe bash? Fish and Pau are talkin' team not bad Kobe. Turn the rage on the Nuggets. Posted by: VMan | February 03, 2010 at 10:09 AM

NOW THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT!!!

ADDENDUM:
Jerry West is the LOGO,
Magic Johnson is MR.LAKER,
Kobe Bryant is G.L.O.A.T

AXL Rose,

Ariza may be better than Artest or a debate of vice versa. That belongs to the past too because Aiza is past. Let future sports historian make that story in the future. What we are concerned most is the state of the Lakers today.

As you said, Jackson is a Master....I know what was missing there... he is a Master Politician who delved on intrigues by using other players. Who wrote a book on this.

I recommended in the past to M/M, let us interview our Lakers Greats who are still alive like Jerry West, Gail Goodrich, Magic Johnson, Kareem Abdul Jabbar, James Worthy and maybe an international representative, Vlade Divac. Tell us what do you think Phil Jackson should do in his lineup to accomplish the objective of a repeat.

I would prefer to listen to these legends who played with the Lakers than reading the opinions of journalists like Plaschke, bloggers, 710/570 pundits or even to the know-all bloggers/posters in the Lakers Blog. If we have a special dilemma, let's go to the specialists.

Maybe Pau Gasol wants his new trade to Chicago or San Antonio whit this comments???? Maybe we have the new "Kobe-Shaq" era??????

MM
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There is NO way you can assess Kobe Bryant’s standing in Lakers history until his career is over. Furthermore, the only bandwagon we need is the one that says Kobe is the team’s best scorer and most clutch player but our team is at its best when we share the pound the ball inside to Drew and Pau and play inside-out basketball. And anybody who thinks that Kobe doesn’t get this and won’t adjust as this team approaches the playoffs is insulting and disrespecting Kobe’s intelligence, his understanding of the importance of playing team ball, and his desire to win championships. When all is said and done, Kobe will lead the Lakers to multiple additional championships and end up as the GOAT of the Lakers as well as the entire NBA in my no humble opinion.
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Tom

Sometimes you don't want to believe, but s**t politics has its own legs and arms to go for lobbying even in a blogosphere setting. Posted by: Edwin Gueco | February 03, 2010 at 10:21 AM

YES! YES! YES! OUT FREAKIN STANDING!!

KOPE BRYANTS STANDING REEEEEEEEEEE --- ASSESSED:

Mj played when he had the Flu, the Black Mamba did that too.

ACCORDING TO DOCTORS A VERY STUPID THANG TO DO

Did MJ play with just one hand, Hell no but Kobe Bean can

GOD GAVE US TWO HAND SO USE ‘EM, AGAIN A VERY STUPID

Who scored more than an entire team? Just one man, Kobe Bean

TEAM = MORE THAN ONE PLAYA AND NOT ONE MAN

Who was cheated out of at least 3 MVP’s, Right again the names Kobe

AND ONCE CHEATED ON HIS WIFE

Lets see what else Kobe has done, as I recall in one game he scored 81.

YAWN…A SLEFISH ACT

What do the greatest of greats got, most of them hit the winning shot

SO DID DFISH AND ROBERT HORY LEADING TO A TITLE WIN

Well in his time in Laker heaven, Kobe Bryant has hit twenty seven.

BUT THE ONES THAT COUNTS WERE DRILLED BY DFISH AND ROBERT H

If you are great you gotta have Rings, Kobe Bryant has 4 of those things

AND MJ HAS 6 AND MAGIC HAS 5 SO THEY MUST BE GREATER THAN KOBE

To be great be chosen as an all-star, Kobe has been chosen 12 times so far.

SHAQ HAS MORE THAN KOBE SO FAR

MVP in an all star game, Kobe has 3 and will have more of the same.

MJ HAS MORE

MAMBA24 I suggest you stick to you Cable IT job and please don't around threatening bloggers..

I'e come around on this in the past couple of days. I'm not old enough to remember the Jerry West era, but I go back to just before the Magic Johnson era. Always before, I've said that the list is Magic, Zeke, Kobe, Kareem. But, after thinking about it, I just can't deny Kobe's on-court performance. Even Magic, the greatest point guard in NBA history, didn't carry the team on his back like Kobe has, year after year. With over 25,000 points and another 10,000 or so to go, 4 titles, MVP, scoring titles, etc., I have to conclude that Kobe is the franchise's greatest player ever. Magic is #2. I can't believe I'm even writing that. Now, total package - on-court, off-court, love shown by the community, the one who most-closely emulates the Laker ideals, it's Magic by a landslide and probably will stay forever, with Zeke #2.

Mamba 24 and others Kobe bashers and Kobe loyalists,

Yes Kobe is No.1 no question about that and we're still in his prime. We don't know what he will accomplish. However, in order to accomplish more laurels he needs help from his teammates. Gasol is one hell of a player who got us to Championship last year, same with Fisher. Therefore, it has to be a team in order to accomplish something.

If you look at a chair where you are sitting now, what is the most important part of that chair? Is it the legs? Or the seat? or the back of the chair? Or the screws that connects its parts? Or the glue to make it more stable? Or the appearance like the paint & varnish? If it is a swivel chair, the rollers and the metals attachment, etc? Isn't it that they all need each other in order to produce a good chair? A weak part could destabilize the integrity whole chair and its purpose.

The same is true with the Laker. Kobe cannot be No.1 without his teammates. Lakers will not win this year without Kobe.

Mamba24,

Re: Don't Blame Kobe Band Wagon

Thanks for your reply. No apology needed. Your wonderful work here never goes unappreciated. You are the Blog's center of gravity. Without what you do, we would be like a balloon floating aimlessly above the Jumbotron at Staples Center.

Edwin Gueco:

You wrote: " Lakers will not win this year without Kobe."

Sure they can without Kobe, with LBJ and DWade and many times more because of team chemistry these two players will inject.

MAMBA24 I suggest you stick to you Cable IT job and please don't around threatening bloggers..Posted by: mutually exclusive | February 03, 2010 at 10:55 AM

ROFLMFAO!!! HAHAHAHAHAAH!

Finally, after this is all said and done, who is the happiest group in unearthing this controversy?

Yes, the Media because they thrive on controversy and sell it to their sponsors!

If there are no controversies, there is no passion in the news but just real news therefore it is not interesting, this is like social media lists of Rick Sanchez and/or Anderson Cooper the children in Haiti.

The only bandwagon we need is the one that says Kobe is the team’s best scorer and most clutch player but our team is at its best when we share the ball and pound the ball inside to Drew and Pau and play inside-out basketball.Posted by: LakerTom | February 03, 2010 at 10:53 AM

I bow before a master and agree one hundred percent...OUT FREAKIN STANDING!!
Mamba24

Good Morning Everyone,

Hmmmm, Kobe is definitely in the Top 5 of the greatest Lakers of all time, but i still feel that Jerry West is the Greatest Laker of all time. Now i'm just reiterating what Plaschke wrote in his article, but it goes without saying that the Logo may have won 1 championship, coached the Lakers in the Mid 70's, became GM and put togethor 8 more championships when he drafted Magic, Worthy, traded for Kobe and Shaq, hell, he even had a little influence in the Pau Gasol Trade. The Logo single-handedly created 30 years of Laker greatness as a Laker in one way shape or form. When any other Laker can do that, he will surpass The Logo as the greatest Laker of all time.

In terms of Greatest Laker "Player", Magic still holds that spot, but it will soon be Kobe. there is no denying that. when it is all said and done, Kobe Bean Bryant will take that spot, hes just too good not to, but let us always remember the foundations of our team. They set up the grounds for these arguments to be laid, for without them there would be no 15-time World Champion Los Angeles Lakers. So Remember Elgin Baylor, whom Chicky Baby deemed was the most exciting player he ever saw, Jerry West, the rock on which our team has been built, Kareem, our stoic cap with the greatest shot in history, Magic, whose smile and determination saved the League and made basketball fun again after the horror of the 70's, Jerry Buss, for spoiling us with these riches, and Chick Hearn, The Eternal Voice of the greatest team in all of sports history. to paraphrase Mamba24: They are the Los Angeles Lakers...Who the hell are you?

@RICK FRIEDMAN, You sir are one classy individual. Thanks!
Mamba24

Edwin - You're right. After this Kobe post, I've been sleeping in a pile of cash.

MM

The Logo single-handedly created 30 years of Laker greatness as a Laker in one way shape or form. When any other Laker can do that, he will surpass The Logo as the greatest Laker of all time. In terms of Greatest Laker "Player", Magic still holds that spot, but it will soon be Kobe. there is no denying that. when it is all said and done, Kobe Bean Bryant will take that spot, hes just too good not to, but let us always remember the foundations of our team. They set up the grounds for these arguments to be laid, for without them there would be no 15-time World Champion Los Angeles Lakers. So Remember Elgin Baylor, whom Chicky Baby deemed was the most exciting player he ever saw, Jerry West, the rock on which our team has been built, Kareem, our stoic cap with the greatest shot in history, Magic, whose smile and determination saved the League and made basketball fun again after the horror of the 70's, Jerry Buss, for spoiling us with these riches, and Chick Hearn, The Eternal Voice of the greatest team in all of sports history. They are the Los Angeles Lakers...Who the hell are you? Posted by: Cap's Goggles | February 03, 2010 at 11:35 AM

"CAP" that was simply MAGNIFICENT!!! I think that put's everything in the proper perspective. Thanks
Mamba24

Edwin - You're right. After this Kobe post, I've been sleeping in a pile of cash. Posted by: Mark Medina | February 03, 2010 at 11:40 AM

LMAO!! HAHAHA!

"with LBJ and DWade and many times more because of team chemistry - mutually exclusive"

You have to reveal more on another handle so as not to be accused as troll for Cavs and/or Heat.

To answer your question, nope!

1. LBJ & D'Wade don't know the triangle so it would take time to train them in that aspect;

2. Kobe is a Laker, and a Laker for life. As a fan I have that faith. He may have some misgivings like any human, still it can be remedied for the welfare of the team. Therefore, most important in Lakerville is "faith on their superstar" . Our faith is still with Kobe.

3. LBJ is not a winner, he has to win first in order to gain our respect. D'Wade belongs to Miami and that is where he should stay. If he comes to the Lakers, his accomplishment may be futile and limited. I don't think he is ready to be embraced here as "Superstar status". Both players needed Kobe just to win a gold medal. Therefore, they are too young to be matched with Kobe. Kobe is now being matched with the Laker legends and MJ.

Edwin - You're right. After this Kobe post, I've been sleeping in a pile of cash. Posted by: Mark Medina | February 03, 2010 at 11:40 AM

Not yet but it will come, you will see. Your blog is being evaluated as we post by those blog ratings out there. Most important M/M, you should know where to invest your pile of cash in the future. I hope you will remember us, bloggers here and the unemployed ones too when you get to paradise (sleeping in a pile of cash).

1. LBJ & D'Wade don't know the triangle so it would take time to train them in that aspect;

2. Kobe is a Laker, and a Laker for life. As a fan I have that faith. He may have some misgivings like any human, still it can be remedied for the welfare of the team. Therefore, most important in Lakerville is "faith on their superstar" . Our faith is still with Kobe.

3. LBJ is not a winner, he has to win first in order to gain our respect. D'Wade belongs to Miami and that is where he should stay. If he comes to the Lakers, his accomplishment may be futile and limited. I don't think he is ready to be embraced here as "Superstar status". Both players needed Kobe just to win a gold medal. Therefore, they are too young to be matched with Kobe. Kobe is now being matched with the Laker legends and MJ. Posted by: Edwin Gueco | February 03, 2010 at 11:46 AM

PREACH BROTHER EDWIN, RIGHT ON!!!

WE WANT utzworld THE BANNER HOLDER!!! WE NEED OUR TEAM PRAYER AND WE NEEDED NOW!!!

Good morning CRUE!

It's game day baby - YYYYYEEAAAAAAAHHHHH!!!!


Curious question - why is everyone talking about the Nuggets?


And Mamba24 - the top of the roll call post mentions the Hornets?

We've got the Thunder Cats first, right? Or did I sleep through a couple of days...?


GO LAKERS!!

Nothing but another title will suffice.

JLF,

>>>Now condolences for your return of ball hog, Kobe the me first, which caused
>>>the loss to Memphis. He took and missed so many shots especially from
>>>perimeter and miss after miss.

(I'm just quoting one example of the many, including Pau's and Phil's comments)

"took and missed so many shots"??? Is that your problem.

Kobe shot 57% for the game. He did his part to contribute to winning this game. And on the last shot, he could have jacked up a covered shot, but he passed to a wide open teammate instead, and Artest missed it (not to place blame for the game on Artest either - he made 6 of 9 shots and was very good).

Remeber the Lakers vs Celtics big men comparison where they clearly dominated the C's bigs? Well the next night they more or less mailed in the game.

Pau + Andrew = 15 points, 17 rebounds

Zach Randolph = 22 points, 17 rebounds

That's right. Zach Randolph single-handedly outplayed the twin towers.

And that's not even considering the 11 points and 13 rebounds by Pau's baby brudder.

Too many people want to blame Kobe for this loss, but I just don't buy it.

If you want to blame Kobe for the loss to the Cavs, where Kobe hit 12 of 31, then I can see that (though Pau & Artest shot a lower % than Kobe in that game and Andrew kinda faded against the big Shaqtus). But not the Memphis game

Magic is and will be the greatest for a very long time.Its Magic then the rest.
let me know when another 6,9 point guard dominates the league again..
Yes,he had plenty of help..Lets take our foggy glasses off and slap our faces with a big cold fish..Magic could play 1 through 5...Enough said...

Come playoff time this will be an inside out team.Kobe is to smart.He knows what works, and inside out is what we will see.

@JUSTANOTHERMAMBAFAN, I'm pretty sure it's Charlotte but let me check the schedule again.
Mamba24

MAMBA24

Put me on the Kobe bandwagon and the Laker Bandwagon as well !

Thanks. chuck23


¿ MAGIC JOHNSON REVOLUTION?

I'm shocked by Bill Plaschke''s statemenet regarding Magic and " his revolutionizing of the assits changed the game".

Does this man know who PETE MARAVICH was ?
How weak memory is .... and how unfair !!!!!!!

Now he will say that Kareem invented the hook .... and not GEORGE MIKAN ?

Both Magic & Kareem top 15 players ever but you have to be fair and give credit where is due.

Mr. Plaschke should know better ... what a shame
Cmooooooooooooooooooooooon !!!!!!!!!!

*
DON’T BLAME KOBE – BANDWAGON
*
(01) LAKER TRUTH – OWNER - In our quest to repeat, I assure you that Kobe's play is the LAST thing we as fans need to be concerned about. He has brought us SIX finals apprearances and four championships, and if not for his INJURIES this year, he has added new weapons to his arsenal. Don't buy into the media's obsession to marginalize Kobe's contributions, his achievements, and his ability to do what's right to win another championship. Kobe will be fine.
(02) MAEVE08 – DRIVER - blaming kobe for this loss? That man does everything he can to bail their sloppy butts out.
(03) TOM - NO ONE in the NBA wants to win more than Kobe.
(04) LAWRENCE - What a difference one game makes. After the win over the Celtics on Sunday, Kobe was God, then a loss to Memphis, everyone's pointing fingers. Kobe didn't take too many shots, the Lakers defense sucked against the Grizzlies, no one boxed out on rebounds. KOBE IS THE BEST - Gasol getting the bulk of the shots = 0-12 in the playoffs. Kobe shooting = 4 Finals appearances and 3 titles.
(05) FU - kb24 best in the world. The rest is just jealous talk. All stfu and ride kb24's coat tail to another title. kb24 soon to have 5th ring in coming months. finit.
(06) JUSTANOHERMAMBAFAN - when you say Kobe is "wild eyed" what exactly do you mean. Do you mean when he goes Black Mamba? With the face (snarl)? Cuz that's exactly when I love Kobe the most as he's cutting the heart out of our opponent. So - if that's what you mean - I'll take that Kobe every day and twice on Sunday. This man has "given" the city of LA and all of us fans 4 rings. FOUR rings. And he's not done yet. So - yeah - if that's what you mean then I say GIVE, KOBE, GIVE!!! Take whatever you want. My bottle of vodka? My keyboard? My defibrillator? YOURS. I LOVE YOU MAN!
(07) MIKE DILLS - Kobe is great. The rest need to pick up their game.
(08) DAVE M. Here's the REAL truth - if he took the last shot and made it last night, everybody would be saying how brilliant the whole thing was and patting themselves on their backs. Personally, I think he should have dropped 100 on Memphis.
(09) WALLACE - Without Kobe, this team will not make it past the first round of the playoff. This team's toughness is not existence. Pau & AB have no right to question Kobe's shot selections when they, repeated, they have not demonstrated that they can assert themselves and win the game. Don't blame Artest & Kobe, they bring 110% every night.
(10) YELLOW FEVER - its just truly amazing at how fans can keep backlashing and keep putting the onus every single time squarely on his shoulders... JUST DESPICABLE.
(11) NEWBIE - i hope PJ own record as the lakers coach with most wins is "not important" either. so much for the MAN who wore that baseball cap with the X on it. yes, i know, that was from his sons. what a douche. Kobe was/is/will be his scapegoat for all his shortcomings & no decision making.
(12) HOBBITMAGE - Out of curiosity, what do you want Kobe to do? Should he continually pass the ball to people who pass it back to him? 24 secs of "I don't want it, you take it." Followed by shot clock violations because nobody is *TRYING* to win the game. They're all just standing around looking at each other.
(13) BRONXLAKERFAN - It never ends. Kobe should shoot the ball the most on the Lakers. He's their best, most aggressive scorer. He's there at the end of games when the going gets tough. Bynum and Gasol should realize that the best way they can help the team is by providing interior toughness and defense. If Kobe scores 40 points or 4 points and they win, it's all good. The reason I never buy into the "Kobe shoots too much" line of thought is that in my heart of hearts, I believe that Kobe's primary goal is to win pay on here. The guy can't win for losing with some of you. Seriously.
(14) DJ - think the problem (?) with Kobe shooting alot is that thus far, not any teammate, other than Pau, perhaps, has shown a CONSISTENT ablilty to produce. If we (Kobe) gave up on the idea of Home Court advantage, he could and ould distribute the ball more. I just think he's too dedicated to win every game and have as much of an advantage (HC) as the Lakers can have. In other words, no time to take a deep breath!
(15) LAKERSRYDEORDIE - But its all good. Kobe can take the weight..Quickly how mofos forget from where they came from.Its easy to blame Kobe..Its convenient cuz you know what, Kobe of all players, can take the ISH! He just comes back harder and better. Other players simply WILT!
(16) JON K - People who hate on our players simply are not true fans.
(17) DEBBIE - And Phil? His coaching decisions have lost us more games this year than any questionable shot selection by Kobe. Maybe Phil's just trying to deflect the blame.
(18)STEVE - I'm not old enough to remember the Jerry West era, but I go back to just before the Magic Johnson era. Always before, I've said that the list is Magic, Zeke, Kobe, Kareem. But, after thinking about it, I just can't deny Kobe's on-court performance. Even Magic, the greatest point guard in NBA history, didn't carry the team on his back like Kobe has, year after year. With over 25,000 points and another 10,000 or so to go, 4 titles, MVP, scoring titles, etc., I have to conclude that Kobe is the franchise's greatest player ever. Magic is #2
(19) BILL PLASHKE - Bryant's ball hogging has become four-time championship hogging. For now, his teammates should stop moaning and count their money.
(20) VTLAKER - Put me on the Don't Blame Kobe bandwagon. His shot on Sunday against Ray Allen was unbelievable to see unfold, watching him sort through the options until one seemed makeable (to him, not to me) then effin owning the one-legged fallaway at a time when most of use would run from the demands of the spotlight. A hero moment.
(21) GUEST - Float like a butterfly sting like a bee . How dare they question the G.O.A.T.
(22) RICK FRIEDMAN - How can you NOT have me on the "Don't Blame Kobe" band wagon? Have you not been reading my posts for the past 24 hours? When I write "In Kobe I trust" what more can I say (although I must have said it in lengthier form in at least three posts).
(23) PFUNK36 - Funny thing.......when Kobe was away from Phil last summer and played with Coach K.....Nobody complained of Kobe's shot selection.....but when it came down to winning the gold in the clutch Coach K asked Kobe to take over on a team that featured LeBron, Dwade, and a host of all-stars........AND NOBODY COMPLAINED! But now we have Phil, Fish and Gasoft complaining.........now that's something that should make you say...hmmmmmmmm?
(24) SHIRLEY GALLAGHER - All i have to say is "CONGRULATION" Kobe Bryant, keep playing,some people are "JEALOUS". Forget about the "LIP SERVICE" Bloggers. or anyone else.
(25) ALAN - I am mad as hell because the Lakers lost the game against memphis. And now I am getting even more pissed that everybody is attacking KOBE...how many shot he took in the 4th quarter, tell me??? where were other lakers in the 4th qtr??
(26) LONGTIMELAKERFAN - Too many people want to blame Kobe for this loss, but I just don't buy it.
(27) CHUCK23 – I’m on the bandWagon.

>>>LBJ is not a winner,...

That sounds like a good jumping off point for my recommending a DVD I just saw.

It's called "More Than a Game", and it documents the friendship and hard work to become winners of five High School players. They start out losing the 8th grade level AAU national championship to some team from California, and eventually win the High School National Championship their senior year.

These aren't some all-star HS team like Oak Hill that are recruited from all over the country, it's just 5 local kids who grew up playing basketball together. The players were Dru Joyce, Sian Cotton, Willie McGee, Romeo Travis, and some other guy who went on to take seasonal work in the Cleveland area (the other four guys ended up going to college).

I highly recommend this. You can get it from Netflix, or probably your local video store as well. Not quite as dramatic as Hoop Dreams, but definitely a compelling story that humanizes LeBron. I'm not going to be cheering for Cleveland to beat the Lakers or anything, but I'm just a little bit more sympathetic to him as a person.

I've always thought of LeBron as this spoiled kid who got everything handed to him on a silver platter, never won anything, and had an ego the size of Lake Erie. This movie really softened my attitude up in this area. He was poor growing up and he bonded with this group of friends and they all worked hard to become champions.

I recommend the movie. It might not change your mind about LeBron, but I think everyone here would enjoy it anyway.

Mamba: Work comes first, bro. Kobe ain't gonna pay my severance package if I get canned for blogging and not working! :)
-----
The trade Kobe nonsense really has to STOP! The more y'all type, the more foolish y'all look. And, last time I checked, the so-called greatest player in the NBA was a 3 point buzzer beater away from getting SWEPT(!) in last year's ECF. Until LeCrab proves himself on the greatest stage of them all, I ain't sipping the Cleveland Kool-Aid! Have a cookie, haters. In fact, have 4 OF THEM!
-----
And now, for the first time in months, LET US PRAY:
---------
---------
---------
Dear Lord, it's so typical for Your children to call on You in times of struggle and adversity. We repent for not calling on You when everything was rosy and peachy-keen in Lakerville. Thank You for being merciful towards us and hearing our prayers.
--
Lord, we of Laker Nation seek Your guidance regarding Kobe Bryant. Lord, those who have the eyes to see are able to see what's really going on. His injuries have taken a toll on his psyche. Game in, game out, we see a man desperately trying to prove to the haters, naysayers, his own teammates, and his own BODY that he can still carry us. My prayer today is that You would allow Kobe the freedom to SURRENDER! To surrender is not an act of weakness but an act of humility that You honor. Allow Kobe the freedom to surrrender the battle for the glory of being strong enough for THE WAR coming in April/May/June. The battles are these games he plays night in and night out. THE WAR is the Playoffs and, ultimately, the defense of our crown in June.
---
Grant him the freedom to trust in his players. Allow Pau to be aggressive again. Prove to Pau once again that there is a time for finesse and there is a time for AUTHORITY. There are some nights where Pau will have to TAKE HIS GAME. Refs, opponents, hamstrings won't allow him to have it...HE MUST TAKE IT! Give him the strength and the fire.
---
Lord, move Andrew Bynum out of his head and out of his own way and let him SEIZE HIS POTENTIAL. Reveal the truth of why he didn't make the All Star Team - you can't be 27/12 for 2 games and then 8/5 for the next 5! That is not consistency! Show Andrew that he is hindering himself by not being obedient to his coaches. Place in him a hunger for DEFENSE! Allow him to feel the shame for every missed rebound and every easy basket scored by his opponents. Remove every selfish and lying spirit from Andrew's mind - and his entourage.
---
Reveal to Kobe and all of our guys that it takes a TEAM to win a championship! Remove them from the mindset of Kobe Ball and let them step into the greatness they walked in last season. Thank You for healing Ron's feet. May his new-found energy be used to defend his team against every opponent on the floor. Continue to use UPS and Jordan Farmar to hold the line. Enable the rest of the Bench Mob to the spirit of defense and focus. May we no longer squander any 4th quarter lead - be it 1 point or 21 points!
----
And, Lord, reveal ultimately to Phil that it's time for a season to change. We love D-Fish, but it is evident that his season as our point guard has passed. Keep him forever a Laker, but move him into a Ron Harper type role. Work your mighty hand by bringing us a Point Guard that would lead and support this team - both on OFFENSE AND DEFENSE! May this PG stop the rampant dribble penetration, be humble enough to score when it's time to score, to pass when it's time to pass, and to maintain a mindset of DEFENSE at all times!
----
We thank You for carrying our Lakers this far. Carry us onward under Your wings...AMEN!

Laker Tom,

" And anybody who thinks that Kobe doesn’t get this and won’t adjust as this team approaches the playoffs is insulting and disrespecting Kobe’s intelligence, his understanding of the importance of playing team ball, and his desire to win championships"

Well said. I think some of the reasons for Kobe's shot attempts to start the season are:

- Ron was being assimilated into the offense.
- Ron's struggles from his foot issues.
- Pau missed some games due to injury.
- Bynum was slumping when Pau returned, and was learning to play together.
- Fish has been struggling to say the least.

Kobe always takes on the added responsibilities when his teammates are injured or struggling (even when he's injured himself). Now that everyone seems to be getting back to health, Kobe will do what is best for the team. He will score or pass based based on how the defenses are playing him (just like the last two years). The second half of the season will bring out the best in this team.

We thank You for carrying our Lakers this far. Carry us onward under Your wings...AMEN! Posted by: utzworld - THE BANNER HOLDER | February 03, 2010 at 12:27 PM

AMEN!! AND THANK YOU BANNER HOLDER.
MAMBA24

Another lost post. My god. Still, it all boils down to this:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Bmhjf0rKe8


Relax people.


Wes

Guys - a new post is up.

MM

This team is full of talent, especially on the offense skills. So it really is a challenge for EVERYONE, not only Kobe, to equally distribute the ball. Some nights these players will want to shoot the ball more than they did the previous games. So this blame game is non-sense. It's one loss people, it's not even during playoff time! I trust and believe on our team, they will be more than fine come Finals :)

And as much as I love Pau and Fish, their concerns about Kobe should've been said privately.

And I leave you with a quote from a A Few Good Men:

Col. Nathan R. Jessep (well in our Laker movie, it's Col. Black Mamba): Son, we live in a world that has walls and those walls need to be guarded by men with g***. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lieutenant Weinberg? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom.

You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties you want me on that wall, you need me on that wall. We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use then as the backbone of a life trying to defend something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you," and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest that you pick up a w**** and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a d*** what you think you are entitled to.

(Some words might not be allowed to be posted on here but I think you guys know this very famous quote from one of my fave movies)

What about the White Mamba, Ammo? Anyone can win on the court. But have you noticed we have won nearly all of our games with Ammo manning the bench?

Seriously, I loved CapnGoggles writing about the logo. That was a point well taken. I also like that he then went with the word "player."

We have to distinguish categories. Magic is the greatest facilitator and Chick is the greatest announcer. And, Kareem is the greatest center.

Part of the phrase that is important is the qualifier "Laker." Shaq was great at what he did. Pau is magnificent. But these guys spent too little time with the Lakers to even get into the consideration.

Since it was before my time, I would love a description of Elgin Baylor. What did he do that my hero Chick held him in such high esteem? Story? Stats? Fill at guy who barely remembers Gail Goodrich in.

PS I love Kobe. I love his dedication and seriousness. But, Magic was in a category all his own; the greatest Laker player in my time. He was the true team player. His nightly passing was as amazing as any Kobe shot. And, we never got to see the end of Magic's career either.

Finally, this previous post is not to diminish the accomplishments and dedication of Kobe Bryant. He definitely belongs in the discussion.

GOOOooOOO LAKERS !!!!

Kobe versus Lebron:

If Kobe and Lebron were quarterbacks, Kobe would be Joe Montana and Lebron would be Dan Marino. Marino had the more athletic arm and better stats, but Montana was Mr. Clutch and had all the championships. I would take Montana over Marino any day of the week.

I agree with LakerTom's point that Kobe's basically got a good 1/3 to 1/4 of his career ahead of him. The only thing that holds him back is...well, nothing really. He's basically incredible.

In a sport where a sore shoulder or sore ankle keep you from suiting up, he plays through semi-serious injury...and excels.

On a team where he's paired with Olympians, future HOF, up-and-coming rooks and is playing under a HOF coach, he garners respect and praise.


In a city where we place so much emphasis on glitz, fashion, and celebrity, he cares for none of that and is the cities, current, greatest warrior. He's like a football player in terms of his playing mentality and ability to endure pain. His game has improved, consistently, every single season he has played. Whether or not that has translated into improved stats or not is inconsequetial. Why? Because he won a champioship doing it his way.


To be sure having Pau Gasol, a super-motivated Lamar, the coming-out party for Trevor Ariza, a slightly healthier Bynum and rock-solid D-Fish helped a lot last year. But ultimately, for now, the team lives and dies by his ability to create offense for himself and his team. Which he has gotten better and better at as the years roll by.


I consider it an honor to be able to watch the best basketball player in the game today perform on a nightly basis. The only thing that would make this cities basketball get better is if Le Bron becomes a Clipper. Then we'll see how good a coach Dunleavey could be , how great Le Bron can be...out West, and ultimately if a super star will ever sign with the Clippers (sorry Baron, you ain't even been to the Finals). Oh yeah, he'll get to go up against Kobe twice as much and then we'll really get to see who the man is.


Honorable mention to Jon K., LAKER TRUTH, and D.Fish who made it on to the page 2, lower left section of the Sports page of the printed LATimes today.

ON, ON TO CHARLOTTE!!!!


What is it about this team that gives us fits. They ruined the best Laker seats I'd ever gotten, at Staples. Diaw, Wallace and Jackson are working well together. I think having an edgy guy on that team, Stephon Jackson, has helped Diaw man up a bit. Boris Diaw is what I consider a soft player. But Larry Brown and the addition of Captain Jack has opened up Diaw's and the teams game. They needed a second playmaker and for Larry Brown to have those in the forward spots is giving teams nightmares.


I'd like to see Derek Fisher get off early and stay involved. He's been playing the best defence of the guard corp right now and is the only player on the team that could say what he said...to the media...yesterday. Seems to me that something like that could have better been said behind closed doors. Kobe knew they lost and that he maybe went off a bit, but not too many people were hitting shots and Gasol was out-played by his brother. Props to Marc Gasol. I'll bet my accordian that he makes the All-Star team in 3 years and then all those silly pundits and Gregg Popovich can say, "Well, maybe it wasn't such a lop-sided trade after all.


In regards to the Fisher comments, I can only think he's asking Kobe to better assess how to utilize that bright, shiny team. Bynum seems to play better if he gets some shots early, but Bynum, Artest, and Pau need to be the dominant offensive players when Brown and Farmar are in. I never worry about Lamar. It'll happen.

Sort of a rambler, ain't it?

GO LAKERS!!!!!

There's another category besides Kobe Bashers, and Kobe Loyalists. Call them Kobe Realists, put me in that camp.

All time Lakers it's always Magic/West 1 and 2 either way.

1. Magic/West
2. West/Magic
3. Kobe
4. ???

It's a little early to be making LeBron to Marino comparisons.

@ exhelodrvr, sorry ex, I totally forgot that I had made that comment about being in the Nugs heads. I must be posting too much if I can remember what I said.

What the guy forgets is what these players have done off the court is irrelevant all we can fairly access them on equally os on the court performance and Kobe has out performed every laker while they were in a laker uniform to date


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