Lakers Now

Round-the-Clock Purple and Gold

« Previous Post | Lakers Now Home | Next Post »

Collective effort ensures Lakers' 100-95 victory over Dallas Mavericks

Even if flaring back pains ultimately made Lakers guard Kobe Bryant miss the entire fourth quarter of the Lakers' loss Tuesday to San Antonio, he wasn't going to allow anything to prevent him from missing tonight's game against the Dallas Mavericks.

Not the likely discomfort of overnight travel from San Antonio to Dallas. Not the short time between games that makes significant progress unlikely. And certainly not the discomfort that made him feel like he couldn't even walk during Tuesday's game against the Spurs.

And if it required him to wake up as early as 5 a.m. today for treatment, well, is anyone really surprised Mamba wouldn't do this?

What is surprising is how the Lakers responded in their 100-95 victory over the Mavericks, giving the franchise its 3,000th victory and snapping the team's four-game road losing streak.

The Lakers entered the game with several injuries, including those affecting Bryant (back, injured right index finger), Pau Gasol (left hamstring), Ron Artest (right index finger) and Sasha Vujacic (right hamstring). The Lakers ended the game showing they're capable of producing despite having limited parts.

Gasol was the only player to sit out, marking the sixth consecutive game he has missed because of the hammy. But it's fair to say Mamba, Artest and Vujacic weren't 100%.

That was especially apparent with Bryant, who looked visibly slow, scored no first-half points and had only one shot. He missed the entire second quarter, and laid down on the sideline anytime he wasn't playing.

He returned in the second half, scored eight points in the third quarter and made only one of four shots in the fourth period. But that shot was the game-winning jumper with 28 seconds remaining. It was Bryant's fourth game-winner of the season, which overshadowed Dallas forward Dirk Nowitzki becoming the 34th NBA player to score 20,000 points.

Mamba may have provided the game-winner, but the Lakers won the game because of a supporting cast that collectively learned how to play without Gasol and a limited Bryant (sans Derek Fisher's three points on one-of-eight shooting).

Lakers center Andrew Bynum had his fourth double-double in the last five games, with 22 points and 11 rebounds. And though Lakers fans have yet to see that production and effectiveness happen with Gasol on the floor, Bynum showed his increased confidence working in the post.

Artest, who was wearing black tape on his index finger, scored 16 points, made all five of his field goals and grabbed 11 rebounds. He appeared to be turning a corner, operating with precision and apparently recovering from his Christmas night concussion. He didn't look tentative, a contrast with Sunday, when he asked out of the Bucks game because of a nasty fall.

Lakers forward Lamar Odom had 18 points and 14 rebounds a night after Coach Phil Jackson publicly said he wasn't being aggressive enough. Odom answered with 20 shots, the most attempts he's taken all season.

And then there was the bench, led by Jordan Farmar's 12 points. Though no other reserve cracked double figures, every one of them scored. The bench had 31 points to Dallas' 21 a day after the Lakers reserves could only muster 20 points.

Big picture, the Lakers' win against Dallas does very little beyond keeping their league-leading 30-9 record intact. 

But tonight's game showed the team's ability not to rely on Bryant. As for Mamba? Whether you admire his relentlessness or remain frustrated with his refusal to rest, he showed yet again that a struggling night overall won't prevent him from knocking down yet another clutch shot and leading his team to victory.

-- Mark Medina

Follow the L.A. Times Lakers blog on Twitter and e-mail the Lakers blog at [email protected]

 
Comments () | Archives (75)

The comments to this entry are closed.

not to take the easy cheap shot, but what exactly would Sasha 'being at 100%' look like? Can someone try to tell him, so he has something to aim for?

Nah, I just miss the easy camraderie of luke walton jokes, i've got nothing against Sasha personally, he works hard, and that is seriously all a guy can do with what he's got, talentwise. (wait, that wasn't exactly complimentary either. dang it)

Tonight win is one of the most cherishing win of the season because it's a team effort throughout. Their defense was much improved over the night before. Offensively, everyone contributed in their own way. Lamar and Thriller set the pace earlier. Bynum is getting close to be the "Beast" we're expecting him to be a the beginning of the season. He was active on defense and finally patient on offense. He's making LakerTom proud tonight.

Kudos to the bench especially Farmar even though he almost cost the team with his untimely TO at the end of the game.

I'm now very worry about DFish. His defensively liability in the last few weeks and his inability to make his open shot highlight the need for the Lakers to look for much needed help at the PG position. I know that DFish's heart believe that he can still perform but I hope his head convince to realize that perhaps it's time for him to step back and allow Phil to start Farmar.

And Nemaia, our thought and pray are with you tonight. We miss you. Look forward to see you back on the chatroom soon.

phred - yeah your point is valid regarding sasha's play. I pointed it out for the same reason I mentioned having Walton back was valuable. A team that's decimated by injuries can use all the bodies they can get, regardless of skill set, because it at least can ensure some minutes while giving your other players rest.

-Mark

MM- you actually made a good point, i appreciate the information and the personal response. But it really is your job now to be the straight man for a lot of these jokes. don't spoil it by being too earnest. : )

phred - if you tell me how to moderate the comments again, i'm going to ban you permanently lol :)

sorry I couldn't join the crew for game chat. If a #4 was there, it wasn't me. the number 4, numero4, fourforfour, or whatever combination of that has been taken, and I'm a little apprehensive about using my real twitter account given that we have some unsavory elements here once in awhile.

Nice to win in this fashion. A sufficiently motivated Laker squad is unbeatable, down to the bench. And no, the bench that we saw last year isn't back yet.

The Lakers aren't back yet, but if we can gut it out like this, I'll take it.

"What the hell are you guys waiting for? You've been sitting around, waiting for me to bail your [butts] out all the time," Bryant said. "Get going. It makes us a better team. Don't worry about me. You've got to be aggressive."

(directed to Odom, Artest, possibly Bynum)


....FINALLY kobe said it!

Someone should tell Dirk to keep his tongue in his mouth where it belongs. As soon as he did the "ugly Dirk tongue wag premature victory celebration," I marked a W on my calendar.

Nice win. Good aggressive play. I like it. Now I'll put down the beer and go to bed.

Go Lake Show!

It has been a great night. We had a true team performance. And then there's Kobe. He's not human. He's like he auto-Lazarus-ed himself.
"Go, step up and score the winner, Kobe" he told to himself.
And everything fell back right in its place.
He's the true Iron Man.
The perfect athlete.
I am delighted about his shout out at his teammates to bail themselves out of troubles and grow balls.

Wow.

It was a major game to watch.
I can't wait to watch it again this afternoon on Italian tv with italian words on it. I am curious to hear the technical comments from my favourite Italian speakers on this completely valuable performance.

I am finally seeing a team building up.

Sure, there are still minors, there are collective and personal mistakes, things that are far from perfect, occasional blackouts but now I can finally say the bench is made by players. Players on their way to developing their meaningful impact on our season.

And it has been Kobe injury forcing these kids to step up.
Not an easy ladder climb, and they're all still not even half of the way through stairs BUT they're moving. We're moving.

When Kobe will feel they have learnt the lesson well, he will allow himself more rest.
For how much I was fearing about his health and safety during this game, whishing he woulds sit more, once again he proved me just a normal human being, and he proved himself an alien. Just when I was ready to shout out my concern and pain, when at the end of teh last quarter he had that airball out from the slowest back turnaround on himself to find space to see the basket, he provided a defensive block a blink of an eye later. All out from MONSTROUS class and will.

That's power.
Nobody has like him. Nobody has EVER got that like him.
How blessed we are.. we just can't tell it well enough.

BUt yes, Kobe needs to feel free to give up. He will when all the kids will be schooled well enough.

It was an awesome game.

I hope the "Bynum traders" devotee are taking notice of Drew's effective improvements these days.
It's still far from perfect... but he's learning good things in a good time now. You know I am not tender with Andrew. But really... givin up on him now doesn't seem a good idea at all to me.

I hope Pau will be back soon and working chemistry out for the better. It still January. We are still injuried. We will probably face slumps again.

Still, now have seen really what I wanted to see: a TEAM.
Leaded by the greatest leader of all times.

I was feeling like watching what Alexander the Great had to be in front of his troops, watching him directing everybody even from the floor he was lying onto.

And Alexander the Great, or a Ramses II in all of his glittering glory.

Kobe makes me cry of joy. It's one of the most awesome feelings ever.
And yes, I reiterate what I said during the chat: I would happily give up one of my life years to have him sane. Truly.
Cos he has made so far12 years of my life so marvellous, he deserves that without a doubt.

I ma sure Alexander The Great's soldiers would agree with my intentions as well.

Great job guys.

Proud of any and each one of you.

Ah! :) good day in LakerLand. Feels SO GOOD.

If Chris Bosh agreed to a long-term contract with the Lakers, I believe he would make them a far more dangerous team for now and the future than Andrew Bynum.

Bosh is only 3 years older than Bynum. Bosh is only 25. He is not even in his prime yet. He has years and years of playing time to go. He is a far better and quicker offensive player. He is much more reliable. He is a go-to scorer that would make it far more difficult to double Bryant. He is more aggressive an offensive player than Pau or Odom or Bynum.

On Defense, the combination of Pau at Center/Power Foward, Odom at Power Forward/Small Forward and Bosh at Small Forward/Power Forward/Center would be lightning quick, long-armed and interchangeable.

On Offense, Pau, Odom and Bosh would make the Triangle offense lightning quick and mobile. It would be a scary front court to try and defend - particularly when you have to spend so much trying to guard Kobe and if Artest plays off-guard. The front court would not get in the way of each other.

This whole premise depends on whether or not Bosh is interested in championships or is only interested in the money.

Bynum has recently been playing better. But he is still a work in progress. He is still not in the same league as Pau Gasol at the Center position.

Certainly, Bynum can some day be a great center. But he has to work at it. He has to develop the will to succeed. Does he want to be one of the best? I haven't seen the fire or desire in him yet. He hasn't yet lost his baby fat. He still isn't a man in the NBA. He is still a man-child, getting lost in the offense, thinking too slowly.

I suggest having Bynum drink a Starbucks coffee before playing to light a fire in him.

REPOST:

Greetings Lakeshow Fans,

Just thought I drop by and check up on the "True" Lakers fans. You definitely know who you are...Maybe this perspective might cheer some of you up.

I've been checking up on the Lakeshow since the beginning of the season from a distance. My observation, as some of you might agree, is that they have not been a truly complete team since opening day.

If you think about it, nagging and nick knack injuries have been their achilles heal ALL year long which explains a lot of inconsistent play in between some good ones, but not great by championship standards.

It's just not about the injuries in the physical side of the spectrum. It also includes the mental aspect on the court, which has been missing a bit of ''bite and bark!"

With Gasol and Luke missing games for stretches, Kobe, Lamar, Ron, Drew and I suspect even Fish have been riddled by the injury "bug" at one time or another. The pieces on the court are not yet in unison. It's OBVIOUS! Look at their level of play. Unfortunately, it is what it is! The bottom line is that they have to fight through them just like other teams, such as Boston and Portland to name a couple.

Other than the Dallas wipeout at Staples a couple of weeks back, they have not truly played their A game yet. I "truly" believe that. I also believe that they will come around. It's such a long season with so much unpredictability. "Ten Rings" Phil, as always, will know when to crack the whip.

With this Lakers team, its all about playing well down the homestretch towards June, not from last October through January. As fans, we have to believe that through ADVERSITY, champions are born. It happened last year. Why not this year?

There is no question that our boys this year are being challenged in every way possible by every team and even "themselves."

After last night's loss to the Spurs, it is safe to say that ADVERSITY has officially struck our team ladies and gentlemen. It has arrived and is alive and well!

Moving forward, it going to be interesting to see how they are going to respond in the next couple of months in terms of rediscovering their championship mettle, especially with a brutal road trip on the horizon.

Believe me, no one in any other NBA locker room is going to feel sorry for the Lakers. Why should they? Right now, the Lakers success has been their worst enemy thus far. It is a new season with a new set of circumstances and situations.

The key, like I mentioned earlier, is going to be how the Lakers respond to the challenge personally and professionally ahead.

Well, they are going to find out a lot about themselves soon enough. If anything, ADVERSITY is the best thing that can happen to this team at this moment in time.

We can't expect KB24 and Pau to save the day EVERYDAY! Others have to rise from the doldrums of their own poor play physically and mentally and understand the BIG PICTURE ahead. This should get them going. The fear of "not" playing in June should motivate these defending champs. If this doesn't do the trick, I don't know what else will...It's all about their will and desire from here on out. As far as I'm concerned, they still have the hunger to do it all again.

Furthermore, once each player (other than the stars) decides to "step up" individually and collectively through the good and bad times as well as see the journey ahead as a "team" as well as COMMIT to each other in WINNING, I can see another Lakers championship without question. Of course, good health would be a great part of the title equation. Let the healing begin!

Like I always say, Laker pride through ALL and ANY ADVERSITY!

Peace!

UPDATE: ON CUE! Nice "collective" win at Mavs for the Lakes.

If the O.A.R. (Odom, Andrew, Ron) boys decide the ball with a purpose along with SB and JF from the pine, like they did tonight, I see restful days ahead for KB24 and El Spaniard.

Let's see if they can take that same "purpose" vs the Clips on Friday. I expect they will after the last showing against them.

It's TIME!

TO MARK MEDINA AND LAKER NATION
Family I deeply apologize for my post yesterday. LakerFan, JustAnotherIndexSwish apologies also to you. You were right, if you don't have a thick skin you don't belong on the Blog. Generally I try to remain positive, but I come from a culture that when someone continually disrespects you, you either answer the challenge or get out the game. That sort of conduct does not belong on the Blog and so if anything said offended you u brothers I apologize. You have my respect. On some things we'll agree, on others we'll disagree, but I think what all of us can agree on is that we are Laker fans and want what’s best for the team. Jon K, Corner-J, Edwin, JustAnotherMambaFan and whoever I missed thanks for having my back. It's great to belong to such a close knit family, but everything is cool. Well folks that's about it. MARK MEDINA sorry you had to be subjected to the more Dark side of the Blog on your initial voyage, we basically are really good folks who some times just get a little too passionate about a subject. Speaking for myself and with no disrespect to the KamBrothers, I think the way you smoothly took over was seamless and yes...OUT FREAKIN STANDING. Mark you do a good job I hoe you don't sour on the Blog because a few knuckleheads such as myself from time to time get a little out of hand. We all appreciate the job you do. That's it folks thanks for your time in reading my nonsense and now back to basketball.
Larry(Mamba24)

This is a cogent article that sees aspects of the longer term development of the team. In the bustle of the regular season, the team minus Bryant and Gasol does not get the chance to learn how to play under live fire conditions until they are forced to by circumstance. Ditto the extremely talented main "supporting cast" members, the number of which you can conservatively claim two or more generously include a total of four or five. What we saw tonight was these people learning enough to beat one of the second or third tier of very very tough teams after playing one arguably in the first tier. How many of us envied the guts of Portland beating the Lakers with wounds from top to bottom? What do you think our people learned from them?

And there's no talk that "We're a little nicked up right now", or "We're looking forward to being healthy". It's not in the mentality to make excuses. Not verboten, not "never referred to" - not in the mentality.

You see Kobe on the floor like Nash would do during the playoffs, except shouting at his team, smiling, giving encouragement, talking the game - involved while temporarily incapacitated. Where Kobe says, and it's worth re-quoting from one of the excellent Breshnahan articles:

"What the hell are you guys waiting for? You've been sitting around, waiting for me to bail your [butts] out all the time," Bryant said. "Get going. It makes us a better team. Don't worry about me. You've got to be aggressive." When have you heard anything like that quoted from the man of The Mamba?

A team able to learn these things and gain the knowledge that they can figure out how and then execute that how is a well coached team, and a team cohesing. It represents a confluence of talent, intellegence, temperment, camaraderie and coaching that is relishing quietly the rare alignment.

The article portrays these elements, which are giving this season to me the flavor of greatness regardless of the end product. And now that we think about it, this seems to be a greatness the type of which Jackson has taught his team to understand. Because what goal is not better achieved when the love of perfecting the means outweighs the attainment of that goal? I've heard Jackson quoted as saying that during the game he "doesn't look at the scoreboard". Maybe he meant in a certain situations. But think of it: Why bother? You know what's going on in the game without consulting the numbers. Kobe has frequently said that it's a process, that what's important is that they learn and improve. Learn.

And what about Kobe caring so much about a record that he will play if he can be massaged and heated and cooled and stretched enough from 5.a.m. so that he can walk, because if he can walk, he will play. How many of us have had bad backs? And this record is one of not missing a game for medical reasons since 2006. That's caring about a stat in the manner of iron man A.C. Green. That was not the only motivation, and rather than just putting in the cursory appearance of a wounded general to rally the troops on the battlefield, he has a scoring flurry, oh, and hits the winning shot with under half a minute to play.

Thanks Mark Medina for a great article. We have some good writers covering these games.

Last night as I came in late on the liveblog, I was going to make my running joke by asking, "What is Derek Fisher 1 out of tonight with his shooting" Is he 1 of 2? 1 of 10 again?" I didn't do it because I didn't actually think it could be true.

Well the sad truth, 1 of 8. He has been doing that a lot lately. People said Farmar played really well. When I came in in the fourth he did three bonehead plays in a row and kept the Mavs in it. When I look at the box score (4-10 fg, 1 assist), I don't see anything very good.

Have we so lowered our expectations at the guard position that we think this is great? This is not championship level production.

People have been saying we don't need a guard as this is the triangle. Having a second person that can consistently hit an open shot is very, very important. I am a bit frustrated.

GOOoooOOO LAKERS !!!!

Zaira - You have a fantastic way with words. Just want you to know it is a pleasure reading your posts. It's like reading a series of vignettes!

The only way to impress me more is if you did all of that through your iPhone.

Wow.

Best game of the year, by far. Even better than the rout of Dallas in LA. Here, the odds were against us. It was the 2nd night of a back-to-back, having lost ugly the night before. Our 2 best players down or hurting. And many role players needing to step up.

But step up they did. Bynum became a real BIG. Lamar attacked and took charge. Artest returned to warrior mode. Farmar re-energized. And even Luke and Mbenga provided valuable minutes and facilitated ball movement and defensive energy.

In other words, a real team victory. A statement game. This could be one of those turning point moments in the season when a lot of things finally come together and the team finally finds the key to its collective power.

I'm looking forward to seeing how they answer the challenge of the upcoming road trip to the East.

Kobe the Maestro; the Orchestrator!!! And the rest of the orchestra played a great symphony to our ears... What a GAME! What a TEAM effort!!

This is what I'm talking about. Our current LAKERS team has what it takes to get the W's.

Get healthy and continue blowing our minds with those happily victorious symphonies!!!

GOOOOOOOOLAKERS!!!!!

Another reason for me to count the soooo many ways I love me some Kobe!


Solid game by our bench, I have been down on them for a while and was glad to see them play a decent game..

Congrats Lakers -- keep grinding!

Genius:

When did Kobe say that to those named players???

Kobe is the best of the best. Period.

The guy is better than Michael Jordan, tougher than Michael Jordan, and as tough, if not tougher, than George Mikan (who used to play playoff series with a broken ankle--try that sometimes.)

Michael Jordan got to play with the entire fury of the "I Want To Be Like Mike!" marketing juggurnaut behind him for a decade while he was secretly betting on NBA games and having affairs and so forth.

Now the sequel to Jordan's marketing juggurnaut is behind LeBron James--whom I have ascertained through my years in exile as a Lakers secret agent in the Akron area (through dozens of interviews with people who know him, knew him and met him) is a racist (doesn't like white people), rude, narcissistic, cheap, materialistic, imagine conscious jerk (even if I have gained significant respect for his ability to rise out of extreme poverty and a very challenging family environment). David Stern is calling LeZero "the Greatest Ever" even as referees allow LeZero to travel more often than any other player ever as a means of smoothing out his path to "Greatness."

The Infamous Colorado Incident has made life and the path to The Greatest Ever MUCH more difficult for Kobe.

Instead of being adored, the significant majority of Americans became "Kobe Haters."

About half of Laker Nation blamed Kobe for the dissolution of the Threepeat Dynasty (now we know it was Shaq's fault).

Despite Kobe's intrisicly American (and noble) hard work ethic, Kobe was portrayed as an example of all that was wrong with sports and basketball in particular.

Well, despite all this, Kobe has persevered. Thrived. He has proven that no one wants to win more than he. He has shown that fundamentally transcendent American quality of sacrificing himself to the limits of his ability for the purpose of winning.

Laker Nation, take note of this moment, this time. We are witnessing (yes, I am mocking LeZero) the BEST. Someday you will tell your grandchildren, "Yes, I saw Kobe play. There was nobody like him and hasn't been since."

Take note.

What do we play for? RINGS!!!

Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.

GO LAKERS!!!!

I'm damn proud of everyone!

Great job by all and yes... even Luke!!!

GENIUS,

""What the hell are you guys waiting for? You've been sitting around, waiting for me to bail your [butts] out all the time," Bryant said. "Get going. It makes us a better team. Don't worry about me. You've got to be aggressive.""

Where did you get this from?

If true, this ABSOLUTELY needed to be said and I'm glad that Kobe said it, hopefully with a powerful growl and a scowl.

What do we play for? RINGS!!!

Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.

GO LAKERS!!!

Yes the Mamba shot the game winning shot, but we had a feeling that he would, despite the physical restraints. But what's important to realize is that the TEAM made it possible for Mamba to have that magical moment. I love how the Lakers played last night, there was the FIRE I had asked for on the previous threads, HEART and EFFORT.

And thank you Kobe for telling your comrades this: "What the [heck] are you guys waiting for? You're sitting around, waiting for me to bail your [behinds] out all the time. Get going, because it makes us a better team. Don't worry about me."

I love this team! They all make me smile in their own little way. A bunch of characters i tell ya. They are learning as they go and let's enjoy this journey with them.

So I sent my fellow Clippers fan a plaintive explitive-laden text upon finding out that Blake Griffin was out for the season.

His response?

'Shaun Livingston 2.0. The Clippers Curse continues.'

Sucks.

I know a lot of people hate the Clippers and all, but I wish that fate would just allow them to compete for God's sake. All these injuries are simply not fair. Say what you will about Donald Sterling and karma and whatever, it's just not fair to these players and Clipper Nation, that their team simply isn't allowed to compete due to freak injuries.

It just sucks.

Go Clippers!!!!

GO LAKERS!!!!!

Best Winning Percentage & now Most Wins. I guess there can no longer be any doubt the Lakers are the Premier not just NBA but Sports Franchise. Oh I forgot: Best Owner, Best Coach, Best Player & Best Blog. Damnnnn are we Awesome or not? YIPPPEEEEEEEEEEEE!
Mamba24

A few positives from the box score last night:

1) our bench was a +1 as a collective last night. While that may not be that significant, it may attest to the fact that at least the contributions from the bench were positive. Just as long as a collective they weren't a negative, that should help our starters.

2) Everyone in the front-court (starters) registered a double-double. We registered 10 offensive rebounds from Ron-Ron, LO and Socks combined.

3) Jason Terry was held to 7 points on 2-12 shooting. We must have done something right defensively to keep one of the more explosive 6th-men way under his scoring average.

Some negatives from the box score:

1) We gave up 13 offensive rebounds. That's way too many chances for a good offensive team like Dallas.

2) Our assist-to-turnover ratio (as a team) was 1.6-to-1. That's just awful. We need to do a better job of handling the basketball. The Mavs, on the other hand, had a ratio of 4-to-1. I know plenty of back-up PGs who would kill to have that kind of ratio; the Mavs had that as a team.

3) Our guards shot 8-24 last night (UPS, Jordy, and D-Fish). I would hope that we could do better than that. Granted, both Jordy and D-Fish had the second highest +/- rating of +3 (Sasha was a +6 but he didn't take a shot). It would be greatly beneficial if all three of them hit just 1 more shot each. That would have brought the collective to a highly respectable 45.8%.

Hope everyone is having a good morning!

Any second now, LakerTom will show up with beastly comments about
Bynum. :)

Seriously, great game for Bynum, LO & Artest. It would be fantastic
if Bynum would play like this with Pau and LO would play like this
every night. Fantastic!

We saw the bench last night. Woo!

Good morning Mamba24 & the fabulous Laker morning CRUE!!!


YYYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!


Buh bye Dallas - you've been out-maverick'd - muahahahaha!!!


That was simply awesome. No - I didn't say "perfect" cuz it wasn't - but it was AWESOME. What a display of grit, heart and determination. I'm truly impressed by that total team effort. Does anyone really doubt that come playoff time this team won't win it all?? Really?? REALLY??


CELEBRATE this team - they are truly something special. There may yet be a few ups & downs - after all, it is only January - but the best is yet to come. WOOO HOOO!!!


Outlaw - you said "Someone should tell Dirk to keep his tongue in his mouth where it belongs. As soon as he did the "ugly Dirk tongue wag premature victory celebration," I marked a W on my calendar." ROTFLMAO!!!!!! So true LOL! And I'd like to add that when any opposing player does the "Huevos Dance" I also mark down our W lol! (It's weird how if Kobe does it, we lose .... One of those black holes in the universe that just can't be explained I guess....)

OK - bring on Little Brother - it's pay back time.

GO LAKERS!!!!

Nothing but another title will suffice.

Mamba24 - no worries. I'm one of many who've got your back.

All's fair in love & blogging.

Mamba24 - no worries. I'm one of many who've got your back.
All's fair in love & blogging.Posted by: justanothermambafan | January 14, 2010 at 08:28 AM

Aww, did I pick a great second family or what? Thanks JAMambaFan
Larry(Mamba24)

Nice win! definitely needed.

John K,
STOP SMOKING!!! As much as I like Kobe he is no MJ.

1) MJ won every title he played for.
2) Always made his players better (Kobe finally got it last year or so)
3) MJ higher IQ-doesnt take 37 shots on a broken finger
4) MJ played better defense
5) MJ's Stats are better in every category plus more MVP's, All-star, etc..
**Tougher-MJ broke his ankle (I believe it was his rookie year) and most players would never be the same, well you know the rest of the story....

Jon K.

You crossed the line with your comments like "LeBron James is a racist (doesn't like white people), rude, narcissistic, cheap, materialistic, imagine conscious jerk"You don't know him personally yet you make up such crap.
Had AK/BK been here i wonder if this comments would have gone through since they know your history and all.

Your comments like "Mark Cuban is a Tool" "People in your bar are stupid " "XYZ is a fool" are not uncommon.You aren't afraid to pass snide remarks about people you know nothing about but when someone calls you out ,you cry FOUL...

You wonder why people target you,well now you know why...

You are incredibly judgmental for someone who doesn't like to be judged...

I read this great quote somewhere -- 'Always be respectful of other man's thinking,it is all he has to believe in.His mind was created for his own thoughts ,not yours or mine.'

Mamba 24

"We all appreciate the job you do."

Truth, we all appreciate the job YOU do my man. You're the straw that stirs the drink 'round here.

Jon K

True that 'bout Kobe but I'd still like to see the man rest. Can ya get better givin' all ya got all the time?

Mamba24, for every tear a victory. It is tears for Mamba and tearing-up for swish and lakerfan. haha!

Same with the beast, keep on trading Bynum, we get fire from his belly. Look at the effects of trading rumor compared to LakerTom props. Last Sunday, it was the first double-double with 17 ppg 18 rpg, Tuesday on a loss game 23-8; and last night second double double 22-11. Therefore, the stick theory is more effective than too much carrots. So far the personal score sheet from the Vecsey intrigue started, it 2-1 and there are still 16 games to go. The real test will be Cavaliers ad Celtic games coming in the next few weeks. Question: if lakers kept on winning with that kind of performance, will anybody in his right mind trade Socks? However, if in the next 16 games, he's just a bystander and our winning ratio is only 50%, will you not entertain a trade? Hehe, I guess you know the answer. This formula applies to Farmar too but it does not to Vujacic who is hopeless and to Morrison who is not even tested!

Go Lakers, give the Clippers the final blow on their curse of bad lucks. I think we should rescue Baron Davis. He is the true PG that the Lakers need.

*Public Service: I am sure we have been inundated with stories of miseries in the calamity that happened to our neighbor in the Caribbean - Haiti. We used to hear political upheavals in the past from Baby Doc Duvalier, now it's the natural 7.0 massive earthquake. They are not even familiar with earthquakes compared to the retrofitted Los Angelinos. I have not heard anything from our millionaire players or coach donating nor our Laker organization doing something for the poor Haitians. One idea, why don't they charter one Boeing 707 jet, fill it up with goods, food, medicine and money from fans and whoever want to give and bring it to rural folks who have not eaten for the last two days? M/M, is there any kind help you may have heard from the Lakers? Can you please ask them during interviews?

Outlaw,

>>>Someone should tell Dirk to keep his tongue in his mouth where it belongs.
>>> As soon as he did the "ugly Dirk tongue wag premature victory celebration,"
>>> I marked a W on my calendar.

I'm with you on this one. Premature celebration is one of the things that irks me
most in professional sports. The Celtics take a 2 point lead in the middle of the
third and Kevin Garnett screams like he just defeated a dragon. Dirk and Hedo
Turkoglu like to stick their tongues out. LeBronze and his river dancing. I
LOVE it when that player's team loses.

Kobe doesn't usually stoop to that, but I remember him doing the Sam Cassell
"big balls" dance once when the Lakers took a lead with a few seconds left in
a game that the Lakers ended up losing.

My favorite in recent memory was game 4 of the playoffs vs Denver when
JR Smith was doing his chicken dance in front of the Lakers bench near the
end of game 4. Maybe someone should have told him that you have to win
4 games to win the series and you shouldn't wake a sleeping mamba. Lakers
swept the next two games and JR did the rest of his chicken dancing (if any)
watching the Lakers vs Orlando in the finals.

Here we go again, one win against Mavs, the drama is reintroduced between Kobe vs. MJ. Very soon it will be Jon vs George.

It is between back spasm vs. broken uncle which is tougher? I know what is tougher - you are unemployed and without the millions of these two individuals and sick too without any medical coverage, that is tougher. Equally tougher, you are buried in rubble in Haiti and you don't know if you will ever see a light. That is so far the toughest.

My point here, it is one opinion vs. the other so let it fly and avoid more dramas!

Regarding Andrew Bynum:
The youngster has obviously made a well-considered decision to not to bang hard around the hoop. People get seriously injured in there. He has seen the devastated knees of Oden and Griffin and had his own lost seasons. I do not blame him one bit. Leaping high in the air will not be on the menu for him any time soon, if ever. But one hopes he will stay healthy!

Public Service: I am sure we have been inundated with stories of miseries in the calamity that happened to our neighbor in the Caribbean - Haiti. We used to hear political upheavals in the past from Baby Doc Duvalier, now it's the natural 7.0 massive earthquake. They are not even familiar with earthquakes compared to the retrofitted Los Angelinos. I have not heard anything from our millionaire players or coach donating nor our Laker organization doing something for the poor Haitians. One idea, why don't they charter one Boeing 707 jet, fill it up with goods, food, medicine and money from fans and whoever want to give and bring it to rural folks who have not eaten for the last two days? M/M, is there any kind help you may have heard from the Lakers? Can you please ask them during interviews? osted by: Edwin Gueco | January 14, 2010 at 09:03 AM
*
EDWIN that was magnificent!! KUDOS TO YOU SIR!!!
lARRY(MAMBA24)

James Katt,

The big things that Bosh would bring over Bynum are these:
- more consistency
- better range in his shooting
- better pick & roll defense

But, it's not all roses. Here is what Bynum does better than Bosh:
- strength for defense in the post.
- shot blocking

I believe the Lakers would be better overall with Bosh, but it may hurt them
against certain teams like Orlando, Boston, and Cleveland.

Bynum is like Kwame Brown with some offensive skills. He's a big strong body
on defense who doesn't get pushed around much. Neither Bosh nor Gasol is
as strong. Against 90% of the teams in the league, it wouldn't matter. But I'd
hate to trade Bynum and then face one of the few teams it does matter against
in the finals.

Ask Cleveland what it's like to have the most dominant team in the league, but
not to have enough strength at center.

VMAN STOP THAT! STOP THAT RIGHT NOW! Lol! Thank you brother it is much appreciated


My favorite in recent memory was game 4 of the playoffs vs Denver when JR Smith was doing his chicken dance in front of the Lakers bench near the end of game 4. Maybe someone should have told him that you have to win 4 games to win the series and you shouldn't wake a sleeping mamba. Lakers
swept the next two games and JR did the rest of his chicken dancing (if any) watching the Lakers vs Orlando in the finals. Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | January 14, 2010 at 09:22 AM

LTLakerFan, I don't know what it is but you have the gift of making us feel that we are right back there reliving the moment. Thanks Bro!

The following scene takes place many years from now in a cozy house, by the fireside.

“Uncle Mamba24, read me a story from "1001 Kobe-an Nights."

“Okay L’il Mamba, which story do you want to hear?”

“Read the one where Kobe the Great played with the sore back when he could barely even walk.”

“Ah yes, that was the same game that the Laker Team was the first franchise in NBA history to reach 3,000 wins. Do I have to say it? OUT FREAKING STANDING!”

(with much love to the Lakers, Kobe and our beloved Mamba24)

Lass

With all the hype about trying to trade for Bosh, I'm surprised there hasn't been
more hype about addressing the Lakers larger need, which is at PG. I'm hoping it's
because people have gained more confidence in Jordan Farmar, but certainly everyone
here can agree that Fisher is looking very old this season. I don't think D-Fish is
completely done, but I don't think he can keep up playing starter level minutes
and get back to any semblance of his past productivity.

Actually, Toronto offers one of the possible solutions in that area. Jose Calderon
is reportedly on the trading block, as they've been playing pretty well with Jarrett
Jack starting and he costs less than Calderon.

The ideal PG for the Lakers would be someone who could hit 3's to space the
floor, wouldn't turn the ball over, and could play good defense. Calderon would
be very good in two of those 3 areas. He shoots 38% on 3's for his career, and
his assist to turnover ratio is third best in the league. On defense, he's only about
as good as the other Laker PG's, but at least he's no worse.

The Lakers could probably get him for either Farmar or Brown plus Adam Morrison's
expiring contract. Might even be able to get him for Sasha plus Farmar or Brown.
Toronto is a magnet for Euro players like Sasha, and they are pretty light at the
two guard.

So what do you think?

Would it be worth giving up Farmar to get Calderon?
Worth giving up Shannon Brown?
Or should the Lakers just stand pat and make Farmar the starter?

Reilly Diefenbach
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
>>> The youngster has obviously made a well-considered decision to not to bang hard around the hoop.
-
Excellent point, Reilly. The last two games, however, it seems as if Drew is starting to trust his knees more as there have been several instances where he really jumped out of the gym. When you think about having had season-ending knee injuries two years in a row during January, it’s a miracle that Drew is even willing to jump at all this month. There is no question that he has not displayed those beastly hops he showed the last 2 years. Ironically, I had pulled back on my prediction of Drew becoming a beast again this year thinking that it would probably take a full year injury free before he would completely recover physically and mentally. Hopefully, I’m wrong and we will see Drew show a little more beast each game and finish January healthy.
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
Tom

I second Edwin Guecos motion on the great people of Haiti.

Good Morning Fam.

@Mamba24 What happened? I've barely been able to read up on the blog. Any links?

Regards Guys!

Contrary to some other posters, I was so HAPPY to see Jordan Farmar that 4th quarter. He was playing very well up until about the 3 minute left mark - and certainly I wasn't happy with how he ended the game, BUT (assuming we still won) I was happy that he had that opportunity to play in a close game, against a playoff competitor, and have the chance to make some "rookie" mistakes (yes, I know he's not a rookie - but he hasn't exactly had too much experience lately in those situations)

If he learns, then I'm all for it. Derek can't go forever - and really he should only play about 10 min a game right now... so we NEED Farmar to have his head where it needs to be come playoff time. We'll need for him to have that ability to step in and start for a world title.

Even though the repo man is coming to take my 70 win bandwagon within a few weeks, I was VERY pleased with this game - it showed me that yes this team does have what it will take this summer.

I'll be watching that Cleveland game really close - I think we'll need Jon K's lucky barstool

Caliphilo - you noted that Lakers guards shot 8/24. Take out Fish from the equation and you get 7/16 shooting. Not great, but far more respectable from Farmar/Brown.

I appreciate Bynum's effort over the last two games, but until I see him work as hard when the Lakers are at full strength, I will not be sold. We need a guy who takes us to the next level, not "just" a guy who is willing to step up when he is given an opportunity to be the featured player. In the meantime though, I don;t mind the fact that he has definitely increased his trade value a bit (now if Sasha would only hit a few 3s!).

Cleveland the most dominant team in the league?
Lol.
No way.
Dominance is just so much more than weight and height.
Dominance is a fine strategy. A wirk of force and fierceness and finesse.

Cleveland is good only in the strenght department . Styled as a dumb caterpillar.

No thanx. My refined taste abhor (?)such things.

@Caliphilosopher (can I shorten it to Cali?): yup. That was. As this one is. I mainly write through iPhone here;) so that I can read and write anywhere I go. Like now... That I am waiting for my man to take me up for a dinner ;).
It's a huge flattering compliment to know you enjoy my posts. Also cos it's true... I try to "paint" concept through words. Guess I am very visual kind of person ;)

mamba... Class post. You're a poet & a Lord. A true inspiration.

George,

you wrote: STOP SMOKING!!! As much as I like Kobe he is no MJ.

1) MJ won every title he played for.
2) Always made his players better (Kobe finally got it last year or so)
3) MJ higher IQ-doesnt take 37 shots on a broken finger
4) MJ played better defense
5) MJ's Stats are better in every category plus more MVP's, All-star, etc..
**Tougher-MJ broke his ankle (I believe it was his rookie year) and most players would never be the same, well you know the rest of the story....

my response: Maybe you should smoke more. As much as I like MJ, you
could starve on the difference b/n the two.
1) MJ never played with Smush Parker or Kwame Brown.
2) MJ did *NOT* always make his players better. anecdotal quote: There is no
*I* in team, but there is in win!
3) regarding 37 shots on a broken finger.
A. Did MJ ever play with a broken finger?
B. Did MJ ever play with a broken finger while Pippen was on the sidelines
with a bad hamstring.
C. Did MJ ever play with a 22-yr old. novice/project who has publicly
admitted that he did not focus once an all-star caliber player returned?
D. MJ did play better defense more consistently. Has MJ ever scored 81
pts.?
4) re: IQ. Instead of winning 8 championships in a row, MJ played baseball.
Does that really seem like a high IQ to you?
5) Yes, MJ's stats are better in every category. Did MJ ever play with a HOF
center? Did MJ ever play with a ball hog who refused to get surgery during
the summer? Did MJ ever out score a *TEAM* in 3 quarters? Did MJ
ever win *ANYTHING* without one of the greatest SF's in history?
[ Pippen in case you're missing this. ] Did MJ ever have a *PERFECT*
quarter? [ 30 pts. no misses. ]

Let's get this straight: During his 6 championships MJ *ALWAYS* had
Pippen. In addition, for the last 3 he had Rodman.

During his 6 championships trips, Kobe has had: The fatman (4),
D-Fish (6), Pau Gasol (2).

Please compare Pippen & Rodman vs. Shaq, D-Fish & Pau in terms of
basketball IQ. By my reckoning, MJ won 6 championships with 2 HOFers
on two very veteran teams. Kobe has won 4 championships with 1 HOFer,
who was too busy making bad movies to fix his free throws and has now
been kicked off of a police department for bad rap. While you're writing
your dissertation, please comment on how adding the aged Gary Payton &
the broken Karl Malone affected the 4th championship trip.

Kobe makes me cry of joy. It's one of the most awesome feelings ever.
And yes, I reiterate what I said during the chat: I would happily give up one of my life years to have him sane. Truly.
Cos he has made so far12 years of my life so marvellous, he deserves that without a doubt.

Posted by: ZairaAmaterasu | January 14, 2010 at 12:59 AM

Zaira,

I could not have said it any better. That statement is what it means to be a true fan. Lakerdom in lucky to have you. Lakerdom is lucky to have Kobe. I hope we are all basking in this glory, because this hallowed place in time and space will not last forever.

The team effort was just awesome.

--FEARless

On the point guard front, here are some other PGs who could probably be gotten
from their teams without giving up any of the Lakers core players:

Nate Robinson - pretty good defender on small fast PGs, excellent shoot first PG.
He's not the "PG of the future" or even a starter, but Nate could be some potent
bench offense.

Chris Duhon - good defensive PG and he hits 37% of his 3's.

NOTE: To get either Nate or Chris Duhon, the Lakers would have to take back
Jared Jeffries contract as well - one more year at 7 million, but he can defend
both forward positions, so he'd be like a very pricey upgrade over Powell.

Kirk Hinrich - very similar to Duhon - good defense, and hits 38% of his 3's.
He's pricier than Duhon or Nate, but his contract does go down each year
instead of up.

Mario Chalmers - good defender, but inexperienced and not a great offensive
player. Miami just acquired Skip-to-my-Lou (aka Sniff-to-the-poo) and they're
just a bit over the luxury tax right now, so if the Lakers could
work out a deal to get them under the luxury tax NOW without adding any future
salary, I'm sure the heat would go for it. Might just be a matter of taking a couple
of players off their hands for MBenga and a trade exception, or something like
that.

Ramon Sessions - good defender, especially on the ball, but no jump shot to speak
of. I'm not sure he'd be an upgrade over Farmar overall.

Devin Harris - ESPN is claiming he's on the outs with NJ. He's certainly a good
defender and not a good outside shooter. You'd have to give up either Farmar
or Brown plus expiring salary to get him.

Keyon Dooling - another good defender, and he hits 36% of his 3's. With NJ
looking to cut salary for summer of 2010, you could probably have him for
expiring salary and a 2nd round pick. If you made it a conditional 1st round
pick, you might even be able to snag Josh Boone as a backup big in the deal.

Beno Udrih - I'm pretty sure Sacramento would dump him for cap space at the
drop of a hat, but probably not to the Lakers. He's a very good shooter, but
his defense is no better than Farmar or Fisher.

Gilbert Arenas - I bet they'd take any viable players (Luke? Sasha?) and cap space
for him, but the risk is whether he'll ever play again or be banned by the NBA.

Javaris Crittenton - same situation as Arenas. So far he's not suspended, but
with word that he drew a gun and chambered a round in the locker room, I'm
sure Washington would gladly dump him for cap space. And as with Arenas,
he may get put in prison for the next 5 years (not likely, but a possibility) or
banned by the NBA.

Andre Miller - so-so defender and not a good outside shooter. He's a good point
guard, but doesn't really fit the Lakers system.

And that's about it. As I see it, every other PG in the league is either worse than
the guys listed above (e.g. TJ Ford, Sebastian Telfair, etc.) or is not up for trade
(Deron Williams, Chris Paul, etc.) or is on a team that wouldn't even consider making
a trade that might improve the Lakers (Denver, Utah, Phoenix, etc.)

3000

For the out of towners, in the post game interview last night, LO was asked about the meaning of the 3000th win. He said when he was at Miami he told management there was only one team he would accept a trade offer from.

He said, again as he's said before, that he's proud to be a part of the organization, proud to wear the jersey.

That kind of team loyalty is all but gone from the landscape of the professional athlete. LO deserves our same in return.

Collective effort?? What an insult to the dfish!! Are you guys saying he's not part of our team? Common have a heart ;-)

Mamba24: (brother)

Phew, I just had my house door locks replaced and was looking into acquiring guard dogs (Doberman) hahahaha.

I too am sorry if my post rubbed you off in a wrong way, as Chicky baby would say no harm no foul.

Cheers!!

Mamba
Good to have the real mamba back.. For a minute larry the IT guy was really startin to scare me... Haha

Kobe vs. Mj

Well Mj played in the hand check era. Not to mention if you got through the defense that era had Shaq, Gonzo, David Robinson, Hakeem, Dike and Patrick Ewing at their prime. (Not to mention the hard east teams such as the Celtics and Bad Boys). I feel Jordan played in the tougher defense-centric era.

I feel the "Kobe is better than Jordan" statement is still premature. Kobe may very well surpass Jordan, but not quite yet.

As good as Wade, LBJ and B. Roy are, I feel they wouldn't be able to pull off as much in the 80's and 90's.

Hey! What happened to my Calderon post?

Before I did the laundry list of potentially obtainable PGs, I did a post on perhaps
the best one that there's even a small chance of getting - Jose Calderon.

Calderon's an excellent shooter - over 40% on 3's last year, 39% right now, and
has the 3rd best assist-to-turnover ratios in the league. He's just a so-so defender,
no better or worse than Farmar and Fisher. But he's arguably a top-10 in the league
starting point guard.

ESPN is reporting that Toronto would consider trading him because they've been
playing well lately with Jarrett Jack starting while Calderon was out injured, and
Jack makes less than Calderon. Also, they're in luxury tax territory and would like
to cut salary.

Lakers would probably have to give up either Farmar or Shannon Brown in the
deal, as well as Adam Morrison's expiring contract. There's a tiny possibility
they'd take Sasha in a deal as well, as they're pretty green at the SG position
and they looooove euro players (but they'd probably prefer Shannon Brown in
that area if it came right down to it)

So what do you think?

Like Calderon?

Worth giving up Farmar if that's what it costs?

Worth giving up Brown if that's what it costs?

Hey guys a new post is up

@Mamba24 What happened? I've barely been able to read up on the blog. Any links? Regards Guys!Posted by: Charles | January 14, 2010 at 10:00 AM

Sir Charles! How you doing man? What happened? The Lakers beat the Mavericks behind! If you are refering to me, nothing much just a slight disagreement between brothers, like you have in most families. Alot of tak full of sound and fury and signifying nothing. And now we are one big happy family again till the next Lakers loss. LOL! How are you doing brother is everything allright with you?
Larry(Mamba24)

*
SAY A PRAYER FOR HAITI - BANDWAGON
*
(01) EDWIN GUECO - OWNER - know what is tougher - you are unemployed and without the millions of these two individuals and sick too without any medical coverage, that is tougher. Equally tougher, you are buried in rubble in Haiti and you don't know if you will ever see a light. That is so far the toughest.One idea, why don't they charter one Boeing 707 jet, fill it up with goods, food, medicine and money from fans and whoever want to give and bring it to rural folks who have not eaten for the last two days? M/M, is there any kind help you may have heard from the Lakers? Can you please ask them during interviews?

(02) TRUTH BE TOLD - DRIVER - I second Edwin Guecos motion on the great people of Haiti
(03) MAMBA24 - RIDING SHOTGUN - I also vote aye on Edwins motion and God bless Haiti.
(04) #4 You got another aye vote.
(05)

Mamba,

How can we all not be on the Help for Haiti Bandwagon. Thanks, Edwin and Larry.

Tom

(with much love to the Lakers, Kobe and our beloved Mamba24)
Posted by: LakerLass | January 14, 2010 at 09:43 AM

What a sweet Lass you are. I'm sure your love will help Kobe heal even faster. I thank you.
Larry(Mamba24)

Mamba Good to have the real mamba back.. For a minute larry the IT guy was really startin to scare me... Haha Posted by: yellofever | January 14, 2010 at 10:34 AM
.
ROFLMFAO! You ought to see my Jim Carey impression of THE MASK
.
Mamba24: (brother)Phew, I just had my house door locks replaced and was looking into acquiring guard dogs (Doberman) hahahaha. I too am sorry if my post rubbed you off in a wrong way, as Chicky baby would say no harm no foul.Posted by: lakerfan | January 14, 2010 at 10:33 AM
.
What's a lil disagreement between 2 brothers. You sir are a gentleman of class. Thanks. But if I hear some dogs barking I'm running. Lol. Peace!
Larry(Mamba24)

Fearless... How gracious :) thank you.

Mamba, def sign me up for the Haiti bandwagon. Definitely.

*
SAY A PRAYER FOR HAITI - BANDWAGON
*
(01) EDWIN GUECO - OWNER - know what is tougher - you are unemployed and without the millions of these two individuals and sick too without any medical coverage, that is tougher. Equally tougher, you are buried in rubble in Haiti and you don't know if you will ever see a light. That is so far the toughest.One idea, why don't they charter one Boeing 707 jet, fill it up with goods, food, medicine and money from fans and whoever want to give and bring it to rural folks who have not eaten for the last two days? M/M, is there any kind help you may have heard from the Lakers? Can you please ask them during interviews?

(02) TRUTH BE TOLD - DRIVER - I second Edwin Guecos motion on the great people of Haiti
(03) MAMBA24 - RIDING SHOTGUN - I also vote aye on Edwins motion and God bless Haiti.
(04) #4 You got another aye vote.
(05) LAKERTOM - How can we all not be on the Help for Haiti Bandwagon.


"Caliphilo - you noted that Lakers guards shot 8/24. Take out Fish from the equation and you get 7/16 shooting. Not great, but far more respectable from Farmar/Brown."

Posted by: dwntwn atty | January 14, 2010 at 10:05 AM

Dwntwn atty - You're absolutely right. I think that is more respectable; I also think it was great of you to point out that there is room for improvement in all aspects of the game.

My rationale behind the aforementioned analysis:

I used them as a collective because I think that PJ rotates his guards based on matchups, so I like to see how they do as a group. Fish had a +3 in the +/- dept. last evening (just like Jordy), but UPS had a -8 (if I remember correctly). If we just took the +/- of Jordan and Shannon, it would be a net -5 for the night.

I do understand that +/- is not a perfect metric, and that's why I used it with a post-hoc grouping of the guards.

If Fish were a bit more accurate (say 3-8 instead of 1-8), I think that the +/- would have been closer to a net of +4 or +5, which may have given us a bit more breathing room.

George,

1) MJ won every title he played for.
Though correct, doesn't mean much since he didn't play for a title every year he was in the league.

2) Always made his players better (Kobe finally got it last year or so)
What are YOU smoking?! MJ was vilified for not making his team mates better for his first 8 years in the league. Did you forget that?

3) MJ higher IQ-doesnt take 37 shots on a broken finger
Hard to say. MJ never broke his finger that I can recall. But, he did play with the flu with symptoms so bad he could have really hurt himself.

4) MJ played better defense
Sometimes, sometimes not. MJ relied HEAVILY on Scottie Pippin to both augment his defense and allow himself to play free safety and amass incredible defensive stats. Kobe only now has a running mate in Artest capable of allowing him to do the same.

5) MJ's Stats are better in every category plus more MVP's, All-star, etc..
**Tougher-MJ broke his ankle (I believe it was his rookie year) and most players would never be the same, well you know the rest of the story....
MJ's stats are better, so far. Kobe hasn't retired yet, and MJ never had to play in the West. His stats are somewhat padded by his being in the Leastern Conference. Please note how Kobe's numbers are better against Leastern Conference Teams than against the West (with a couple of notable exceptions on both coasts).

Plus, if you want to use stats as your barometer, then you should say that Kareem is the best ever. Or Wilt or Russell. Those guys really put up gaudy numbers.

BTW, it is Kobe and not MJ whose winning percentage in high scoring (45+ points) games is decidedly positive. MJ had a long tradition of loosing games where he scored a lot of points before he figured out that he could do both (win and score a lot) if he involved his team mates. Like I said, took him 8 years.

You are comparing a finished product to one progress. It seems a might unfair.

At any rate, about the most unreliable way to compare athletes from different eras is to use stats. We on this blog have long figured that out already.

--FEARless

Thank you Mamba24, & others for joining the bandwagon.

These are the grateful voices of survivors out there. Laker F/O should spearhead this campaign.

Hobbitmage,

You always seem to have my back. I had already written out my post this morning only to come back to my computer and see that I forgot to hit "post". But, I look at your post and you mentioned many of the same things.

Thanks for stepping in when I fumbled the ball.

--FEARless

Mamba,

Put me on the Haiti bandwagon forthwith. I'm even having my high school classes say a prayer that all will be OK.

--FEARless

@Caliphilosopher (can I shorten it to Cali?): yup. That was. As this one is. I mainly write through iPhone here;) so that I can read and write anywhere I go. Like now... That I am waiting for my man to take me up for a dinner ;)

It's a huge flattering compliment to know you enjoy my posts. Also cos it's true... I try to "paint" concept through words. Guess I am very visual kind of person ;)

Posted by: ZairaAmaterasu | January 14, 2010 at 10:06 AM

Please feel free to call me Cali; some people here call me Cali-P, but I'll get the gist of it. :-)

Did you have any regional cuisine with your significant other? Do you have any favourite wines/grappa/liquers? I'm looking for something to import to where I am going to graduate school, and I'd take a recommendation from a native any day of the week. ;-)

But I'd
hate to trade Bynum and then face one of the few teams it does matter against
in the finals.

Ask Cleveland what it's like to have the most dominant team in the league, but
not to have enough strength at center.

Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | January 14, 2010 at 09:39 AM

Long Time,

You've just summed up the best argument against the proposed trade.

Excellent.

--FEARless


@EDWIN GUECO, OUT FREAKING STANDING!! KUDOS EDWIN!
*
SAY A PRAYER FOR HAITI - BANDWAGON
*
(01) EDWIN GUECO - OWNER - know what is tougher - you are unemployed and without the millions of these two individuals and sick too without any medical coverage, that is tougher. Equally tougher, you are buried in rubble in Haiti and you don't know if you will ever see a light. That is so far the toughest.One idea, why don't they charter one Boeing 707 jet, fill it up with goods, food, medicine and money from fans and whoever want to give and bring it to rural folks who have not eaten for the last two days? M/M, is there any kind help you may have heard from the Lakers? Can you please ask them during interviews?
Thank you Laker Nation for joining the bandwagon. These are the grateful voices of survivors out there. Laker F/O should spearhead this campaign

(02) TRUTH BE TOLD - DRIVER - I second Edwin Guecos motion on the great people of Haiti
(03) LAKERTOM - RIDING SHOTGUN - How can we all not be on the Help for Haiti Bandwagon.
(04) #4 You got another aye vote. I can't imagine the pain and suffering these people are going through.
(05) MAMBA24 - I also vote aye on Edwins motion and God bless Haiti.
(06) ZAIRA AMATERASU - def sign me up for the Haiti bandwagon. Definitely.
(07) CHUCK23
(08) FEARLESS - Put me on the Haiti bandwagon forthwith. I'm even having my high school classes say a prayer that all will be OK.
(09)


Regarding Kobe vs MJ: big difference between their defenders due to different eras. Today's basketball players are bigger, stronger, faster and more athletic than in MJ's era. How can anyone not noticed that today's players look noticeably bigger and more muscled? Basketball players in bygone eras looked downright funny to me now because they all looked quite skinny.

Virtually every NBA team today has at least one or two defensive "specialist". How would MJ have fared being guarded by notable "Kobe-stopper" such as Bruce Bowens, Ruben Patterson... or the likes of Shane Battier, Raja Bell, etc.

To Long Time Laker Fan: Jose Calderon sounds good. He can't possibly do worse than DFish! Maybe you should send your suggestion to Laker management.

To DFish: please, please be man enough to swallow your pride and accept that you don't have it anymore and that you're hurting the team. Phil is just being stubbornly loyal to his Triangle sons so he's not going to do it. You'll have to do it yourself and take yourself out. Puuulllleeeeze...

SoT,

"You don't know him personally yet you make up such crap."

No, but I have spoken to dozens of people who have met him and there is a congruency between all their accounts.

I expected something very different since people worship LeZero out here, but of the people I've spoken to (often at length) who have met LeZero, there has been a continuous stream of negative assessments to his character.

I don't "just make things up."

Take that, El Jerko.

What do we play for? RINGS!!!

Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.

GO LAKERS!!!


Connect

Advertisement

In Case You Missed It...

Video

All Things Lakers »

Your database for all things purple and gold.

Find a Laker

Search a name

Select a season

Choose one of our lists



Categories


Archives
 

About the Bloggers


Bleacher Report | Lakers

Reader contributions from Times partner Bleacher Report

More Lakers on Bleacher Report »



Get Alerts on Your Mobile Phone

Sign me up for the following lists:


In Case You Missed It...