The Lakers and depth: Five guards to three (and a half)
We kicked it around in Thursday's PodKast, it's being discussed in reasonably wide circles around the NBA: The bench is an issue for the Lakers. This is not a state secret, but is counter to the Great Purple and Gold Depth Narrative constructed a couple seasons back, and as we all know those can be slow to change.
When everyone is healthy (something we won't see Friday night against the Grizzlies at Staples, as both Pau Gasol and Andrew Bynum are expected to miss the game) the Lakers have incredible frontcourt depth, top end depth, and versatility, which I consider a form of depth. Kobe Bryant, Pau Gasol, Ron Artest, Andrew Bynum, Lamar Odom. That's a serious quintet, with potentially overwhelming length and mobility on both ends of the floor, great passing skills, post play for days (fancy new stuff, too, in the case of 24) and matchup options that would make most coaches jealous.
Define deep as having a reliable and lengthy bench and it's tougher for the Lakers to compete, at least as it stands this morning. No question, once Lamar Odom, as impactful a sixth man as any in the league, resumes that role it'll solve a lot of problems. We saw last year how much his presence helps elevate the rest of the reserves, and behind him among the forward/centers, the red-hot Josh Powell and DJ Mbenga are more than adequate given their spots in the rotation. Luke Walton has a utility to the Lakers that makes him a handy rotation/role guy. When people talk about depth and bench issues with the Lakers, they're referring to the backcourt, where Phil Jackson is currently sorting through Shannon Brown, Sasha Vujacic, and Jordan Farmar in an effort to find a stable backup to Bryant and a way to better manage Derek Fisher's minutes.
Sorting is a good word for it, too.
After the win over Atlanta Sunday night, Jackson made it clear that the current five man rotation at guard won't last, and that certain guys are in danger of playing themselves out of the rotation (unless you think "I told them point blank that some of you guys are starting to lose minutes if you don't start being productive out there and if you can't get things organized out there on the floor" is somehow vague). It's hard enough to play four guards, he says. "Five's almost impossible."
Fans may get frustrated watching the door revolve among the guards, and many have already picked their winner (likely Brown, possibly Farmar, with Sasha losing supporters by the day). But while the minutes his starters have played clearly indicates PJ isn't interested in giving these early games away, he's also very willing to use the early season as a basketball lab. "Phil's always going to have his idea of what is going to fit best for our team," Fish says. "He wants to see certain things during the season. He wants to see if he can rely on certain guys in certain situations.. If this guy is out here in the playoffs or the Finals, can we rely on his decision making and his ability to do what needs to be done."
PJ's track record in measuring an 82 game season is well established. 10 rings later, I'm on board. He'll say otherwise, but Jackson understands that depending on the player, to staple a guy to the bench in the first couple weeks could mean losing him for the rest of the season. On the Lakers, that applies particularly to Vujacic, who has never responded well to spot minutes, instead consistently trying to cram 25 minutes worth of ball into six, and to a lesser extent Farmar, who believes strongly he can play a larger role in the NBA than the one he has here.
That doesn't mean players can or should be coddled and given minutes they don't deserve for weeks on end, but the season needs to be considered as a complete entity. Does it make sense to sacrifice a player who might be needed down the road so early? Not to me. Does it make sense to experiment with rotations and combinations now so the tool box is potentially larger down the road? Absolutely.
The problem currently for the Lakers is that all three options behind Kobe and Fish are imperfect. It's not like CP3 is riding pine while Jackson starts Fisher. Sasha fills a need for a pure shooter who forces defenses to extend to the three point line, except he hasn't shot well over the last year-plus. Farmar has the best pure point skills of the three, operates pretty well in the open floor, and can attack and finish at the basket. But he isn't a great fit for the offense, struggle with his decision making, and continues to have problems with screen and roll defense. Brown is the best defender of the bunch, is supremely athletic (some call him UPS, I prefer YouTube), and has shot well in purple and gold, but as Jackson explains here, is still learning how to operate as a lead guard in the offense (this, by the way, is Fish's primary non-intangible value to the team- he gets them organized, and fast). Remember, Brown isn't a classic point in terms of ball skills and passing ability. He's still learning.
My impression- and it's a tea leaves thing as much as anything- gives Brown the inside track to gain more minutes as the season goes along, both as Kobe's primary backup and at the point behind Fish. They like his defense, his athleticism, and his willingness to work hard, absorb, and improve. His major problem now is a lack of time in the system, something that literally lessens with each passing day. Ironically, I think it's their confidence in Brown that often keeps him from being the first guard off the bench. The coaches know what they have with Brown, and want to see if Sasha and Farmar will step up in meaningful minutes. Farmar will likely have a role as the season progresses, because there are certain things he can do that the other two can't, in terms of running the floor, pushing pace, and the like. But if he doesn't earn the confidence of coaches quickly- I thought he played well in Houston Wednesday night- instead of Brown and Farmar each being the third-and-a-half guard in the rotation, deployed based as much on context as anything, JF will fall into that fourth spot.
For Sasha, it's going to be very tough for him to earn minutes assuming good health for his teammates. It's a shame, because the guy wants desperately to do well. He works hard, he shoots after practice (a little too much, as we've often discussed), and hustles on the floor. In a perfect world, guys like are rewarded, but unfortunately his play hasn't deserved it. Meanwhile, opportunities are shrinking. Artest's presence means fewer minutes for Kobe at the three, which means fewer backup minutes behind him at shooting guard. If Vujacic isn't connecting from beyond the arc, what does he do better than Brown?
A healthy roster leaves the Lakers with great top-end depth, and a frontcourt able to dominate most teams in almost every way possible. What they lack, though, is a consistent and effective rotation of guards outside of Kobe. Be it Brown or Farmar (or even Vujacic, who has surprised me before), if one of those guys becomes a major player, suddenly things on the Lakers' bench look a lot more promising. I'm not talking world beater status, either. Just reliable minutes on more nights than not.
When Jackson eventually settles on a rotation, that'll help as well. Sure, it's tough on the guy(s) who get aced out, but for those remaining in the mix life improves, and hopefully their performance along with it. “You know your role, your job and opportunities much more so than not having a clue," says Farmar of how things change once the rotation tightens. "You do something right, you come out. You do something bad, you come out. That’s what makes it difficult.” Athletes generally and basketball players particularly talk endlessly about rhythm, and a line can often be drawn between rhythm and minutes. The Lakers hope that line also connects to improvement.
It's a long season, and by the end of it I think they'll get there. My candidate to provide the biggest boost is Brown, with Farmar running second. As long as it's somebody, the Lakers should be fine.
BK
SHANNON BROWN POINT GUARD OF THE FUTURE –BANDWAGON
(Formerly Shannon Brown is a Keeper – Bandwagon *******)
*
(01) YELLOW FEVER – SOLE OWNER
(02) NEVER – DRIVER - I'll be glad to be the driver of the Shannon Brown wagon. Screw tailgating Farmar, I'll be passing him on the left hand lane.
(03) PSYCHED LAKER GIRL - I want to be in the car with Never and Shannon. Not only
is Shannon's name cool but he will be breaking out in the fast lane this year - I just know it!
(04) #4 – LIKES SHANNON FOR 4 REASONS
(05) JUSTANOTHERMAMBAFAN - I would like to roll with the Shannon Brown's a Keeper bandwagon s'il vous plait.
(06) KEIFO – RIDING SHOTGUN
(07) THE OUTLAW – TAUGHT SHANNON TO PLAY DEFENSE
(08) BABY OUTLAW – WAAAAAAA
(09) FATTY – THINKS SHANNON BROWN IS LAKERS SECRET WEAPON
(10) LAKERSRYDEORDIE – ALWAYS BEEN A FAN
(11) NEMAIA FALETOGO - Shannon is more athletic, stronger and a better defender than Farmar
(12) TALIQ – HE’S GOT MY VOTE IF YOU DON’T LIKE IT I HAVE A CELL FOR YOU.
(13) DOC4daLakeShow - Glad to see Shannon get the run.
(14) JON K - Brown has shown us glimses of potential for us to get excited about.
(15) BD - JORDAN FARMARS WAKE UP CALL FROM MR. BROWN
(16) Sir CHARLES –
(17) utzworld THE BANNER HOLDER - put me on the Shannon Brown bandwagon, por favor. He's most def gunnin for Jordan's (and Fish's) spot.
(18) TALIQ - not only can he play but every minute he spends on the floor means less of farmar refusing to pass to kobe's bff, i.e. sasha"
(19) JOHNNYP - How crucial is Shannon Brown when we have this bench slump going on?
(20) EDWIN GUECO – Air Traffic controller to clear the lanes
(21) JAMIE SWEET – GO SHANNON –(It’s always good to keep your options open)
(22) LAILA - shannon brown was awesome
(23) ChicNstu |- UPS ..Thats what Brown can do for you!
(24) EASTCOAST-JESSIE - I also have to say that Shannon Brown is getting lot's of love from me. The kid is ridiculously athletic and his defense is much better than Farmar's.
(25) LONGTIMELAKERLOVER - I'd love to be on the Shannon Brown bandwagon. Love his passion and committment! Go Brown!
(26) JEFF - ShanWOW's a thrill to watch, he's my new favorite laker not named Kobe or Pau.
(27) BILLY IN SLO - Great attitude + great ability = Great player and teammate
(28) JUSTIN - I'll admit, I'm definitely on the SB bandwagon. Excluding LO, he is simply our Bench Mob X factor. As Shannon raises up, the crowd goes wild.
(29) LAKER TRUTH - Shannon has the skills and the mental strength to be the starting PG in this system.
(30) VMAN - Love Shannon Brown, undoubtedly slotted by Phil to play Ron Harper in the upcoming blockbuster season.
(31) KOBESBAD – Big, Big Fan.
Posted by: MAMBA24 | November 06, 2009 at 06:12 AM
What is there for Phil Jackson to sort? He has a center front row seat to the game-everygame doesn't he? He has to see what the rest of the world sees. We have a major problem at the PG position that will come to bite us center rear in the heiny if we don't do something about it.
Again what's there to sort out. It's simple as this:
D.Fish.
He's reliable and experienced, but slow and worthless over 20 minutes of play. Start the guy and let him finish the game (only if the replacement guy is not hot-because Phil does have stat stubborn tendancy to replace a hot shooting bencher with an old cold starter). Just to think about it, I bet Phil prefers cold sub sandwich over the hot ones! And sure if, IF..Fish is hot leave him in the game. We need his experience and leadership but jeez not for 30 minutes in a game.
Jordan Farmer:
Oh,my how can I go on without getting a bit pisted off. This guy has been given oportunity after opp. to prove he can be a starter in this leauge. He has not done that yet! He appears to be a very nice guy. But talk to the Celtics and see if they give a hoot about nice guys!! We need toughness, speed, and a unselfish player for PG. Farmer is not the one. To make matters worse, he rarely ever seems motivated on defense. Please let's not go on. He's a bench guy 10 min. play at max. Still nice guy though.
Shannon Brown:
So damnnn what a guy has to do to get some P.T around here!! He's dunk on several dudes alah Kobe. He's made some critical shots, he hustles on defense. Man this dude needs a chance. CAN YOU HEAR ME PHIL? SHANNON BROWN NEEDS A CHANCE!! He may or may not be or next PG but lets give him more than 20min a game to prove himself. I for one believe we can certaily depend on him to carry us at that postion.
if this problems is not solved, than surely there are some teams that will exploit this--SPURS, CELTICS, NUGGETS, and even CAVS. Why didn't we get a veteran PG during the off season?
Posted by: moneydez | November 06, 2009 at 07:14 AM
puddle,
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Thank you for that intelligent spot on defense of Jordan Farmar. As a long time Farmar fan, even I have to confess to having forgotten how well Jordan is capable of playing. Phil and Tex recognized the impact that a true point guard could have on the Lakers even though they played the Triangle Offense. It was Tex who convinced Phil to go more up tempo to take advantage of Jordan’s skills. That is quite a compliment to a young player for the Lakers to actually change their game due to him.
-
You hear so much cliché reasoning that says we don’t really need a true point guard since we run the Triangle Offense when the better and more intelligent issue is how much better we might be with a true point guard running the Triangle and turbo-charging our transition offense. And that is not even counting how important it is going to be down the road to have a point guard who can feed the post. I thought two years ago that Jordan might be that player. Then came last year’s disappointment.
So where did the train get derailed because I find myself cringing more than cheering when Jordan is on the floor the last few games. Here is my theory. I think getting abused on defense led to frustration that undermined Jordan’s confidence and his entire game. I also don’t think the problem was entirely Jordan’s fault because there really was no clearly set strategy last year as to how to play the pick and roll and hesitation is the kiss of death for the defense against a team that runs the PNR well.
-
Phil’s philosophy on defense is similar to his philosophy on offense. Rather than set a specific strategy on how to play the pick and roll, such as how UCLA’s Ben Howland does by almost always trapping the ball handler, Phil prefers to let the players make the judgment, sort of a read and react strategy. Counting on players to make the right judgment on how to defend the pick and roll on the fly is tough, which is why the Lakers always seem to have problems with pick and rolls. Simpler is often better as Howland’s players know exactly what to do and act decisively. Do you see that with the Lakers?
-
Anyway, I think there are good reasons for the Lakers to perhaps experiment with Farmar by even giving him a series of starts in place of Fisher to (1) see how he performs over a series of games working with the starters and (2) possibly showcase him to another team, if we decide he is never going to be good enough to be our starter. One way or another, I think him coming in always looking over his shoulder is going to do nothing but turn a potential asset into an actual expiring contract.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | November 06, 2009 at 07:29 AM
So damnnn what a guy has to do to get some P.T around here!! He's dunk on several dudes alah Kobe. He's made some critical shots, he hustles on defense. Man this dude needs a chance. CAN YOU HEAR ME PHIL? SHANNON BROWN NEEDS A CHANCE!! He may or may not be or next PG but lets give him more than 20min a game to prove himself. I for one believe we can certaily depend on him to carry us at that postion.
Posted by: moneydez | November 06, 2009 at 07:14 AM
That's it. 10Rings MoneyDez speaks for all of us. No more Zen,No more polls no more games.
WE WANT SHANNON NOW!
WE WANT SHANNON NOW!
WE WANT SHANNON NOW!
Posted by: MAMBA24 | November 06, 2009 at 07:30 AM
OH BY THE WAY, MONEY DEZ I HAVE TO SAY IT
YOU'VE EARNED THE..."OUT FREAKIN STANDING" OF THE WEEK.
SO SAY WE ALL!
Posted by: MAMBA24 | November 06, 2009 at 07:32 AM
Laker fan-
Dont worry ... I will not say anything about your injuries because I dont want KARMA to come back and bite my team in the @$$ like it did yours for saying we were "old" and wouldnt make it thru the year without of injuries.
Anybody care to reconsider their "Cavs will win the East" prediction? Or has everyone bandwagoned over to Orlando by now?
Let me get this straight ... the deepest most talented team in the NBA needs a point guard and a center 5 games into the season? I thought you had the "longest" team and nobody could match your length when you decided to go "BIG"?
I guess this is why they actually bother to play the games!
Mamba-
Good morning sir ... its not too late to climb aboard.
Posted by: 131-92 | November 06, 2009 at 07:54 AM
Good Morning: JustAnotherMambafan, LakerTom, MoneyDez
& the rest of the Crue'.
WHAT CAN BROWN DO FOR YOU?
I’m a Laker fan but now I find, a couple of Phils actions are making me loose my mind
I aint been the same since Arriza left town, now you giving the shaft to Shannon Brown
I wont’t use my own words today, Put MoneyDez to rhyme & see what he has to say
“damnnn what a guy has to do to get some P.T here!! Preach Money Dez I said & burst into tears
“ He's dunked on several dudes alah Kobe. Yet you fools keep trying make us go for the OK doke”
He's made some critical shots & he hustles on defense. Goddogit Man this dude needs a chance.
“Can You Hear Me Phil? Sannon Brown needs a chance!! I think he’s our ticket back to the big dance”
Can you hear your fans Phil, hear what they say? Doggone it we want Shannon to start today
Dfish is an Icon and Fish much love to you, but all careers wind down so here’s what you should do.
Show the team what a true team player you are, first have a talk with that goof Farmar\
Tell him for the good of the lake Show , Shut the F up or he will have to go
Then go to Sasha and tell the Machine, You had it, you lost it, Time to fade from the scene
Then this will be the hardest thing to do, give your truly honerable self a good talking to.
Remind yourself that for the team you love, you graciously gave up your job to the Glove
And with that selfless act this I will say, you earned millions of new fans in the NBA
I’m sure yourself will then do the right thing, and you and Kobe will go to 10Rings
Tell him 10Rings don’t get up sit you’re A down, It’s time for playing time for Shannon Brown
And if he tries to give you that smirk, just tell him Phil that B.S. will no longer work
Tell him we need Shannon, of that there's no doubt, Shannon's the man, if not "Ship 10Rings @zz Out"
Then grab him and before he has a chance to swear, Say Brown or your legs & point to the wheelchair
II think that offer he can’t refuse, On second thought let Ron-Ron deliever that wheelchair news.
And when you repeat and retain the crown, You will thank God you stood up for Shannon Brown
Posted by: MAMBA24 | November 06, 2009 at 08:15 AM
Dedicated to Mamba24's Bandwagon (With apologies to Bob Dylan)
How many bandwagons must we print
Before one calls Brown to the point?
How many more games must Lakers play
Before UPS is called to start?
Yes, how many times more T/O's will they commit
Before they heard our cries?
The answer my friend, Shannon is the man
The answer is a phantasm in our imagination.
Farmar is the man said one
Bynum is the starring beast said the other
Yes how many times can an avid fan turn his head
Pretending Shannon does not exist
Yes how many more guards will outrun this team
Before we admit our players are slow
The answer my friend is a wish in the wind
The answer is a phantasm in our imagination.
Posted by: Edwin Gueco | November 06, 2009 at 08:50 AM
Re Bynum- Injury prone? Every 7 foot tall guy is injury prone. When you are carrying that much weight on your legs, you have a lot less margin for error. So I’m mostly glad at this news, as 1)its his arm, which probably wasn’t used to that much banging and rebounding, and 2)He isn’t going to play in Memphis.
Wes- thanks for the link, but aren’t all spaghetti westerns shot in Italy? Well, by Italians, I mean. I think most of them were shot in spain. Either way, you are doing a great job of culturing up this here blog with music and movies.
Puddle, et al- good points about farmar, but if I might join the chorus of armchair analyzing, wasn’t that (07-08)farmar’s first full year of serious minutes? I think a big part of playing in the nba is adjustments. Like a pitcher studying the habits of a particular batter, the pitcher is more likely to get him out the more of him he sees. I think other teams have learned how to play farmar, and farmar has not improved his game to match. And I suspect that farmar, like a lot of good college players, just might not have a much higher ceiling to improve into. Obviously, this is an oversimplification and not the only factor, but I haven’t seen it pointed out much, so I’m throwing it out there.
Ex- Con Air and the Rock are such great movies I can’t believe Luke Walton and Magic Johnson weren’t offered starring roles in them.
LOVE, YADDA YADDA.
Posted by: phred | November 06, 2009 at 09:03 AM
"Just to think about it, I bet Phil prefers cold sub sandwich over the hot ones!"
A hilarious Quiznos ad flashed in my mind when reading this...
This is the easy part of the Lakers' schedule so I can see why PJ wants to experiment with the rotations now.
Finding the PG of the future can wait. What the bench needs to do is hold leads, so the fact that UPS is more a physical defender than a traditional PG is not a problem.
However, "continues to have problems with screen and roll defense" is a problem.
The fact that both Sasha and Jordan know they're basically auditioning to stay on the team may be making their playing worse since they're trying to do too much in the time they're given.
Posted by: Scott | November 06, 2009 at 09:11 AM
BK sums it up perfectly in regards to Sasha, Farmar, and Brown:
"The problem currently for the Lakers is that all three options behind Kobe and Fish are imperfect. It's not like CP3 is riding pine while Jackson starts Fisher. Sasha fills a need for a pure shooter who forces defenses to extend to the three point line, except he hasn't shot well over the last year-plus. Farmar has the best pure point skills of the three, operates pretty well in the open floor, and can attack and finish at the basket. But he isn't a great fit for the offense, struggle with his decision making, and continues to have problems with screen and roll defense. Brown is the best defender of the bunch, is supremely athletic (some call him UPS, I prefer YouTube), and has shot well in purple and gold, but as Jackson explains here, is still learning how to operate as a lead guard in the offense (this, by the way, is Fish's primary non-intangible value to the team- he gets them organized, and fast). Remember, Brown isn't a classic point in terms of ball skills and passing ability. He's still learning."
Derek Fisher is the perfect fit for this team. He does exactly what this Laker team needs, and he does it better than anyone in the league aside from Chauncey Billups.
The truth is, there will be a point in the season where all three Sasha, Brown, and Farmar will come in handy. There is some nice flexibility with our PG situation this year.
As far as PG of the future. It would be cool to see Shannon Brown be our high-flying PG, but he is a SG. We'll have to see if he develops through the years as a leader. I'd like to think if Ron Harper was able to do it, Shannon Brown could too. But Ron Harper was an allstar and a 10 year vet before Phil Jackson turned him into a facilitator. Shannon Brown at this point is a journeyman, and he doesn't have the fundamental skills that Ron Harper had.
Go Lakers!
Posted by: Rocky | November 06, 2009 at 09:14 AM
Mamba24 (and others),
Shannon's talents are wasted as a point guard. Further, he is a long way from developing the skills needed to organize the offense.
Shannon is best as a 2 guard, with minutes either when Kobe is getting a rest, or when Kobe is at the 3.
Band wagons are nice. I've joined plenty of them here. I really think this one is misguided.
Posted by: Rick Friedman | November 06, 2009 at 09:39 AM
131 - it is way too early to gloat, shame on you. Gloating is a waste of time, and I won't do it even if we win. I'll just enjoy it quietly like I did in 2008. As for LA? They've hung tough in overtime twice in a row. Now,I think jackson is playing the starters too much this early, but hey, Joe Torre did the same thing with his bullpen in 2004 and look what happened (:))
Cavs lose again. Spurs looked really old last night. What happened to parity in the league? 6 games in, and there are only a handful of teams with a CHANCE of winning it all. Makes me long for the days of 8 teams, when they were ALL good!!!
Posted by: Giant Green Bald-Headed Lunatic | November 06, 2009 at 09:41 AM
Did anyone else watch "Chelsea Lately" last night? Lamar and Khloe were on.
Boy, she's a real "piece of work."
Posted by: exhelodrvr | November 06, 2009 at 09:48 AM
How many bandwagons must we print
Before one calls Brown to the point?
How many more games must Lakers play
Before UPS is called to start?
Yes, how many times more T/O's will they commit
Before they heard our cries?
The answer my friend, Shannon is the man
The answer is a phantasm in our imagination.
Posted by: Edwin Gueco | November 06, 2009 at 08:50 AM
OUT FREAKIN STANDING!!!!!
Posted by: MAMBA24 | November 06, 2009 at 09:51 AM
Shannon Brown is a capable ballhandling guard. There is no evidence to the contrary. Farmar is a terrible shooter to this point of the season, but it's young. Sasha is thankfully in the second year of a three year deal, and may be moved to a team that plays an uptempo style and is looking for a guy that likes to shoot and needs less structure.
Brown can and will be a capable ball handler in the triangle and will blossom into a fine PG.
None of this will matter though, in the end, because Tony Parker will be playing for the Lakers in two seasons anyway.
Posted by: The Hoops Freak (a.k.a. Pig Miller) | November 06, 2009 at 09:57 AM
BK
I think sometimes you write articles just to write an article because this one is much ado about nothing. Phil Jackson has had a season, training camp, exhibition games, and practice to determine where the minutes should go. If there is a problem at this point maybe Phil Jackson is the problem. Have you ever considered that BK?
It is not just Phil Jackson it is also partly the media for not consistently raising ALL of the possible reasons for our lack of depth. When you make the statement
"Luke Walton has a utility to the Lakers that makes him a handy rotation/role guy."
This statement is part of the problem and I'm quite sure an opinion shared by Phil Jackson....DESPITE ALL THE EVIDENCE TO THE CONTRARY. The ironic thing is this opinion boggles the mind of people who know the game. I want you to read this carefully.
IF LUKE WALTON WAS LET GO TODAY ............HE WOULD NOT BE PICKED UP BY ANYBODY!!
The biggest harm in trying to keep Walton relevant (which by the way has nothing to do with basketball) is it stops the team from actively finding a worthy replacement! We could have drafted Blair or kept the kid from France that was in camp.......they would help us in the depth department and I'm sure both would have improved because they were young players. But Luke Walton is pushing 30 years old and has not improved his game at all. As a matter of fact during the exit interviews the only thing that was asked of Walton was to get healthy. WTF???????? Nobody suggested that he should do defensive slide drills to work on his lateral movement, or try to extend his shooting range to beyond the three since he can't create his own shot and he dribbles with his head down. The expectancy level for Luke Walton is soooooo low that it has become increasingly obvious that his contract has nothing to do with basketball or improving this team.
I look at a kid like Trevor Ariza that has improved in leaps and bounds but his potential was ALWAYS evident as least it was to me......but Phil Jackson who is rapidly developing a track record for not being able to develop talent actually STARTED LUKE WALTON AHEAD OF ARIZA FOR NEARLY A SEASON AND A HALF!!!!!!!
Despite the obvious fact that Ariza had a world more potential and much younger Phil still yo-yo'd Luke and Ariza the same way he is doing now with Brown and Sasha and Farmar. When it is obvious in this situation that Brown is the better player with much more potential and should be given more minutes than Derek Fisher even so he can continue to improve.
I know BK that you are blinded by the 10 rings but divorce yourself if you can from that emotion and try to remember last week's meal does not satisfy tonight's hunger..........the process must continue. The goal is to always strive and move toward the absolute, always look for ways to improve yourself. So if Kobe does self-evaluation after his resume of success and decides that he would seek out Hakeem to work further on his post moves........can Phil Jackson improve BK? Or is he perfect in your mind? If you think he can improve then write an article that will address that instead of pointing to the 10 rings and using that as an excuse for cowadice journalism. I know Phil Jackson has a problem with arrogance and that makes his 10 rings at times more of a detriment than it does an asset but I expect more from you BK..............you're better than this...........or not
Posted by: pfunk36 | November 06, 2009 at 10:20 AM
At some point in the season, I would like to see all three doing well enough to play at the same time (with LO and Socks) as a push-the-pace small-lineup (with Sasha at the 3, and everyone else at their respective positions). It would be awesome if we could go 9 deep without too much drop-off
I still think that we will get some sort of cohesion together as the season progresses
Giant Green - I don't think you're a lunatic; I actually like the things you have to say. They're intelligent, and unlike trolls, you don't take shots at people. I'm looking forward to intelligent discussions with you in the future about things NBA (and sometimes other) related. :-)
Hope everyone is having a good day!
Posted by: Caliphilosopher | November 06, 2009 at 10:20 AM
LT-
"Phil’s philosophy on defense is similar to his philosophy on offense. Rather than set a specific strategy on how to play the pick and roll, such as how UCLA’s Ben Howland does by almost always trapping the ball handler, Phil prefers to let the players make the judgment, sort of a read and react strategy. Counting on players to make the right judgment on how to defend the pick and roll on the fly is tough, which is why the Lakers always seem to have problems with pick and rolls. Simpler is often better as Howland’s players know exactly what to do and act decisively. Do you see that with the Lakers?"
Not at all true. The Lakers have a defensive system, and definitely have a strategy for how they want to defend teams, the P and R, etc. Executing it is another matter, but the notion that Phil wants to "let his players figure it out" on that end isn't true. Yes, you have to read the situation, but that's true of any defense played by any team. The reason the Lakers struggle to defend the P and R is the same as it is for most teams- at the NBA level with NBA talent, a well executed screen and roll will almost always lead to a shot somewhere. Given what you can't do to ball handlers in terms of checking them, it's almost impossible for any guard to stay in front of his man, especially on a screen. From there, it becomes a team game, often with a big, and someone like Drew is still learning how to effectively play his role to show and recover, and guys beneath him have to be decisive on rotations to protect the basket. But almost no team in the league defends the P and R consistently well, which is why just about every team runs it all the time.
As for Ben Howland and college, it's a mistake to compare how things are defended/executed at that level to the NBA. It's easier to trap and play aggressively or run just about any disciplined defensive system because the players aren't as good. Ballhandlers aren't as strong, the guys setting the screens aren't the same level of threat. The quality of player at the NBA level gives them myriad options on the P and R, and thus makes it that much harder to defend.
BK
Posted by: Brian Kamenetzky | November 06, 2009 at 10:29 AM
Rocky
- - - - - - - - - - - -
>>> Derek Fisher is the perfect fit for this team. He does exactly what this Laker team needs,
>>> and he does it better than anyone in the league aside from Chauncey Billups.
-
>>> The truth is, there will be a point in the season where all three Sasha, Brown, and Farmar
>>> will come in handy. There is some nice flexibility with our PG situation this year.
-
>>> As far as PG of the future. It would be cool to see Shannon Brown be our high-flying PG,
>>> but he is a SG. We'll have to see if he develops through the years as a leader. I'd like to think
>>> if Ron Harper was able to do it, Shannon Brown could too. But Ron Harper was an allstar
>>> and a 10 year vet before Phil Jackson turned him into a facilitator. Shannon Brown at this
>>> point is a journeyman, and he doesn't have the fundamental skills that Ron Harper had.
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Props for one of the best posts on this subject. I think the people are sticking a fork into DFish way too early. I would rather start and finish with him on the floor than Jordan, Shannon, or Sasha. Unless Mitch suddenly works out another miracle trade, I agree there will be times for each of these guys to help the team. It is a long season and with injuries, slumps, and hot hands, I think you are right that each of these guys will get their chances. What is important is for whoever gets their minutes cut now to be ready to contribute when their time comes because sometime during our – championship run, we will need all three. Their primary use should be to save Fish for the playoffs.
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | November 06, 2009 at 10:32 AM
Anyone saw Spurs' game yesterday vs the Jazz??
All that marquee additions they made - Richard Jefferson, McDyess and that "steal" draft guy... still I dont think SA is the best team in the West. (they have a mega-bench though, Manu, McDyess, Mason etc)
However, when I saw yesterday's game, one thing was clear. Duncan is not what Duncan used to be. Jefferson and McDyess dont seem like they'll be able to fill the void. So, I would say still we are the team to beat in the west.
131-92, your "unbeaten" Celtics could have been beaten by the lowly Wolves but for the questionable call at the end of the game.. What happened to those blow-out wins?? Or since Minnesota was once-home of the Lakers, your old men's knees started quivering to play there?? :-)
Posted by: Kobefan in Cupertino | November 06, 2009 at 10:32 AM
Boy, she's a real "piece of work." Posted by: exhelodrvr | November 06, 2009 at 09:48 AM
No I missed it Ex. But I'm sure your comments are meant in the kindest way possible! ROFLMFAO!! OH LAMAR, LAMAR, WHAT HAVE THOU WROUGHT!
Posted by: MAMBA24 | November 06, 2009 at 10:34 AM
Part of my pre-season excitement about the Lakers was the prospect of an expanded role for Shannon. Hasn;t happened yet and I'm a little puzzled as to why (blog explanations above notwithstanding). As the season rolls on, we are going to lose games if we don't have a reliable guy to split/take minutes with/from Fisher.
Posted by: dwntwn atty | November 06, 2009 at 10:35 AM
Ex- Con Air and the Rock are such great movies I can’t believe Luke Walton and Magic Johnson weren’t offered starring roles in them. LOVE, YADDA YADDA. Posted by: phred | November 06, 2009 at 09:03 AM
lol! Or at least Shaq! I still believe "KAZZAM" was one of the top 10 Movies of all-time AND Shaq was robbrd of an Oscar.
Posted by: MAMBA24 | November 06, 2009 at 10:37 AM
I think it's worth mentioning too that Shannon has the advantage of not having already disappointed Lakers fans on one level or another. He's always been in a position to exceed expectations, b/c they were pretty low when he arrived, and his contributions were seen in a lot of ways as an unexpected benefit (I thought he'd play a lot more than Morrison, but SB definitely worked his way into the rotation faster than I thought he would). Meanwhile, Sasha has totally lost the shooting that got him his contract, and Farmar backslid last year all while displaying an attitude that turned a lot of people off.
It's very easy, though, to overrate the unknown, or decide that 5 or 8 minutes of effective play at a time can be extrapolated to 15 or 20 minutes of it. It happened some with Powell last year, too, but with JP it's pretty clear there's a diminishing return the longer he stays on the floor. Craig Smith is one of those guys for me, too. I LOVE him as an 15-22 minute a night guy- he's one of my favorite role guys in the league- but if he plays 35 a game you've got problems.
Shannon has made some spectacular plays, works his ass off, has a great attitude, is humble, and is impossible not to root for. I'd love to see him grow into a bigger role. But at the same time, I think he's still working on the small, mundane things that help a team operate. That's where he's growing, and improvement there will be what lands him more time. Like I wrote, I think he and Farmar will, at worst, start picking up whatever rotation time Sasha eventually loses, and if Brown can get himself more comfortable with the details of the offense, he'll get more minutes than any guard off the bench.
BK
Posted by: Brian Kamenetzky | November 06, 2009 at 10:41 AM
pfunk-
We've done this before, so I'll be relatively brief, but a few points:
-If you think the preseason and practice simulate how people handle game situations, you're just wrong. You have to get guys on the floor in real game action to see what they do. If you want to use last season as your guide for this year, to me that's also a mistake, It ignores how players evolve, improve, or get worse (odd too that the player should get credit for last week's meal, but PJ's record should be tossed out the window). Beyond that, coaches need to make sure that if they think a guy will be needed, he can go to him. Sometimes that means giving that player PT that otherwise might go to another player. It's an 82 games season, with the goal of playing at your best when the playoffs roll around. There's nothing to indicate the Lakers won't be there come April.
-"I know BK that you are blinded by the 10 rings but divorce yourself if you can from that emotion and try to remember last week's meal does not satisfy tonight's hunger..." I realize here you're trying to be both deep and hard hitting, but it's also the same song you sang last year, and if memory serves everyone got fed. Obviously he's not perfect, and when PJ does something I don't agree with I write about it. But big picture, the guy has a long record of achievement and success and the full confidence and partnership of the iconic player you keep insisting chafes under his coaching despite any evidence to support it. Call me crazy, but that shows he's got an understanding of how to handle this NBA coaching thing (certainly he has a longer, more impressive resume than, say... you). If I go for major surgery, I'll look for the best surgeon I can find. One with a track record of success. That doesn't guarantee my procedure will go well, but I'm far more likely to value his/her opinion over a guy in the comments section of a surgery blog. Big picture, I have no problem with what he's doing right now. That's why I'm not writing long criticisms of his work.
-You'd think if "the kid from France" the Lakers cut in camp was that good a) you'd know his name (Mikael Gelebale) and b) another NBA team would have jumped to pick him up. Neither has happened. As for Blair, if Walton was making half his salary, the Lakers still would have sold their picks because they're literally tens of millions of dollars over the luxury tax level. More importantly, Blair is a PF, not a SF. If the Lakers picked him up, he'd be more likely to take the place of Powell, not Walton. But don't let that sort of thing get in your way. Beyond that, you spent half your comment talking about a guy I devoted one sentence to in my post. He's currently averaging about eight minutes a game and won't get substantively more over the course of the year without someone getting hurt.
-Aside from your (again, oh so) clever dig at me and my participation in the apparently race based struggle to keep Luke Walton relevant (which, oddly, doesn't seem to apply to Adam Morrison- if you'd like, I'll let you know the location of our next meeting, and you can bring snacks laced with a laxative!). PJ doesn't seem to be working all that hard to keep Walton at the center of Laker consciousness at eight minutes a game. You spend more time talking about him than anyone I've seen. Fair to say you're the one obsessed with him, not all of us.
Thanks for the note.
BK
Posted by: Brian Kamenetzky | November 06, 2009 at 11:05 AM
RUGGED START ...
1. INTENSITY? Sloppy, squeaker of a win against the Clips. Blowout loss to Mavs. Unconvincing win over Hawks. Two OVERTIME WHEWS versus projected lottery teams. Welcome to the 2009-2010 Laker's NBA Season! Everyone geared up for taking a shot at the Champs, while the Champs struggle to find game focus and intensity as they predictably (perhaps even excusably?) roll out to a slow-moving start to the season. Playoff level intensity cannot ~ I repeat CANNOT ~ be sustained from November to June.
2. INJURIES! Yeah, the rest has long-term benefits for Gasol. Oops, a string of five or so superior games by Bynum then an injury (have we seen this before?!). Not exactly devestating news or impact yet, but a key element to lack of continuity and team aspects on defense and offense.
3. BENCH?! With roughly the same cast of characters, last year this team was labeled DEEP with a capital "D" early and often. Struggles mid to late season were thought to be an abberation. But now, a concerning reality seems to be setting in. The Bench is weak and far from Deep. This is an issue that falls squarely on Jackson as coach. It is not about "potential" (unseen possiblities). It is about blending chemistry and balance to RETURN to PAST levels of performance. Farmar & Sasha haven't "lost a step." Walton's past numbers weren't before some career-altering injury. Those THREE should be better coached for production. POTENTIAL is about Brown & Powell, showing improvement and promise.
4. LEVEL OF COMPETITION Last year we saw it over and over again. The Lakers would play to the level of the competition. Apparently that is not going to change. So true measure will soon come with games against upper-tier teams like Denver, when Lakers will put on their game-faces for more than a stretch here or there in regulation, or out of late-game/OT neccesity.
5. D-FISH??? Count me as a diehard, loyalist in support of Fisher. I had my doubts at times last year. Fighting those doubts even more than ever, now. Wondering if BENCH AND FISH might perform better with him leading that group, and STARTERS AND FARMAR might perform better with him fitting more in with that group. Could somebody with access and clout (AHEM... AK/BK) suggest this to Phil before T.J. Simers does and all hope is lost for it ever happening!?
Mike
Posted by: LakerMike | November 06, 2009 at 11:10 AM
BK,
- - - - - - - - - -
Thanks for your response. There are many different approaches and strategies for defending the pick and roll with varying levels of judgment and decision making required by the players. At one end of the spectrum you have teams that try and adjust how they play defense according to whom they play. These teams will require their players to make a decision on the fly on how to defend each pick and roll depending upon who is handling the ball, who is setting the pick, and where they are on the floor. Putting such an onus on the players can often lead to hesitation and indecision, where players end up getting caught in limbo and end up guarding nobody or leaving the shooter or roller wide open.
-
To me, the Lakers clearly fall into this group of teams. Their strategy is heavily read and react and the result has been a legacy of not defending the pick and roll as well as other teams. Obviously, you can attribute much of a team’s performance against the pick and roll to the type of players you have since big men like Shaq, for example, have never defended it well but you also cannot ignore the specific defensive strategy that the team deploys when evaluating how it plays pick and roll defense. What I learned coaching and playing the game is that when you see players not knowing what to do in such situations, it usually indicates that things need to be simplified and made easier for them.
-
Whether it is the strategy or the players, it is rare that the Lakers play the pick and roll effectively. More often than not, it appears to me that the players are not in sync in how to defend the play and I believe much of that comes from their having to read and react on the fly rather than having more precise instructions and specific strategies to defend the play. There are some players in the league – Rondo is a perfect example - whom I would always slide under the pick and give them an open shot. There are other guys whom I would always trap in order to get the ball out of their hands.
-
Rotations are another aspect of defending the pick and roll that I think the Lakers need to simplify. Probably the most frustrating thing for me to watch on defense is the player guarding a man spotting up for a corner 3 trying to help on a pick and roll penetration or pass resulting in an easy corner 3. The Lakers should simply things for their players so that we never leave a player open in the corners. You can talk all you want about how NBA players are tougher to trap than college players but the reality is that NBA defenders are taller and longer than college defenders and one thing you rarely see are UCLA defenders caught in hesitation and indecision limbo the way Lakers players always are.
- - - - - - - - - -
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | November 06, 2009 at 11:12 AM
Good Morning Everyone....
Im in my mates wedding today so all updates and stressing will be done via my iphone...
Kobe fan ...I watched the game..Tim Duncan looked 115 years old last night..
I love the guy but Boozer abused him...A couple of times Boozer used a crazy drop step in the key while Duncan looked in very slow motion.....
For the fans who like myself have concerns about our guard and bench situation,please remember we have a guy thats deal is worth 5mill sitting on the bench ...And or the Farmar contract as well...The trade deadline count has already begun in this house..
Jon K ....Hope your trip out west went well man....
I have another band you need to listen to....
WOLFMOTHER.....Cosmic egg.......This band is really good...
If anybody liked Led Zep or that style of music then you will fall in love with these guys.....Trust me...
I will have my phone on silent during the church but just in case we loose Mbenga to injury and need a 5,8 center i will have it back on at around 3.30pm...My fade away jumper is crazy....A mix between Samaki Walker and Greg Ostertag all rolled in one...
Posted by: Thirty2 | November 06, 2009 at 11:21 AM
Caliphilosopher - first of all, great handle!! Yes, you have to read between the lines sometimes with me. Really wouldn't hurt a fly - this is just amusement.
Thanks for the props, personal insults are a waste of time, but no promises if I find hypocrisy on these threads.
Some posts are very entertaining. And, as I've said a hundred times, after 2008, if I'm a GM in the NBA and Mitch Kupchak called me, the conversation would go just like this,
" Hi Mitch, how are you? If the next words out of your mouth are not 'Andrew Bynum' I'm hanging up."
Have a great day, do I call you Cali or Mr. Philospher, Sir?
Posted by: Giant Green Bald-Headed Lunatic | November 06, 2009 at 11:21 AM
Good Morning Charles...Good Morning Everyone...
I think this guard "situation" will be worked out extremely favorably this season, possibly by the trade deadline...
it seems that at least one of the players in question (Fisher, Brown, Farmar, Sasha) will indeed step it up as the season goes on, if not Mitch will have a trade ready that will blow our little minds no doubt..
as some have aluded, coaches and management see the problems / potentials and are working on contingencies as we speak, as that is their job, seemingly...
and this summer the Lakers will not be idle either I suspect, with the cornucopia of free agents, the economy and our ace in the hole (i.e. most NBA players would rather play for the Lakers (and hence win championships) and live in LA than any other franchise / city (at least until Honolulu or San Diego gets a team as far as cities go or so)...
the season is long enough for our coach to give everyone and all combinations of players their chance, hopefully he does just that, though sometimes it does seem as if that is indeed not his modus, as it were...but then again there's that pesky 10 ring thing, i.e. he alsmost seems like he knows what he's a doin'...
"Nowhere man can you see me at all?"
"because I'm 6 foot 4 and eat punks like you for breakfast"
AS ALWAYS, AS EVER, YET ANOTHER GREAT DAY (AND CHAMPIONSHIP SEASON) TO BE A LAKER FAN !!!
GO LAKERS !!!
Posted by: Floyd | November 06, 2009 at 11:34 AM
pfunk,
"STARTED LUKE WALTON AHEAD OF ARIZA FOR NEARLY A SEASON AND A HALF!!!!!!!"
You do realize that Ariza came in after the season started, was hurt after 20 games, and (for all intents and purposes) didn't play until the next season? The season and a half was really 60 games.
And when last season began, he had one training camp and 20 games with the Lakers under his belt. In the triangle system, which is difficult to learn. A player with one year of college and 4 years on the bench with three different NBA teams. And you complain that Phil didn't start him.
Not starting him was the smartest thing to do for Phil to do, because it set him up to succeed. But you can't comprehend that, because you're jealous of Walton's curly hair and that blinds you to reality.
Posted by: exhelodrvr | November 06, 2009 at 11:39 AM
Greetings, beloved blogmunity!
It's time for...
Jon K.'s Early Thoughts That He Has Not Put Too Much Thought Into Yet!
1. I love L.A.
2. Just returned from Los Angeles, had a wonderful time, my interviews went well, spent time in Long Beach, Riverside, Hollywood, Woodland Hills, and Santa Barbara and was impressed with every place I went to.
3. What shocked me was that California had not been transformed into zombieland. I completely expected that the wrath of the current economy would turn California into a wasteland. This was not the case. Sure, I saw more "For Rent" signs and some empty stores, but nothing compared to what I expected. Quite frankly, the development I saw was intelligent and California looked better than I remember it when I last visited two years ago. By comparison, Ohio looks like a tsunami just pulled back. I don't get it. The unemployment rate is significantly higher in California than Ohio, but Ohio looks devastated and California looks vibrant by comparison it makes no sense to me.
4. I was so disappointed by listening to KROQ. I came to California eager to listen to new music and KROQ has become the equivalent of "classic" alternative rock. I mean, they're still playing Bush's "Glycerine" in their rotation. Really? Really? Why? It's the same music that was tired when I left California THREE YEARS AGO. What the hell? In contrast 92.9 in Santa Barbara played almost exclusively NEW music that was intelligent and quality. It was a far superior listening experience. If KROQ is supposed to be one of the leading radio stations in the country, they should play something other than boring music. I'll take KCRW or KJEE (Santa Barbara) any day over the crap that KROQ is currently playing.
5. I was so busy during my trip that I did not get to watch a complete game, but I was able to watch (and listen to) large chunks of Lakers and Clippers games. It was nice. The commentators are so much better than TNT and ESPN guys. L.A. fans are spoiled by quality.
6. I hooked up with some old friends and was annoyed by what they found time to complain about. Los Angelenans have it good. Really good. So good that they complain about things that would simply be met with the mildest shrug most places in the country. Time to celebrate what you've got as opposed to complain that life isn't perfect.
7. My experience in L.A. has invigorated a personal antipathy towards chicken littles. This team is awesome. Thriller is such a wonderful acquisition. Sure, we've struggled at times, but EVERY team is bringing their absolute "A" game when they play us--EVERY team--Thriller is still intigrating himself, and Pau Gasol is in street clothes. Give me a break. When this team is healthy and Thriller is intigrated, this team is going to be amazing.
8. I don't give a damn about the 73 win goal. What I care about is that this team is playing the equivalent of an entire season of playoff intensity because of opponents bringing their "A" game every night. While that is exhausting, it also builds a strength into the playoffs that no other team will have.
9. [Lakers secret agent special report]: I've spoken to approximately three dozen people recently about the inclusion of Shaq into the Cavs. The concensus is that it is not going to work out. I have not spoken to a singular Cavs fan who believes that the Cavs will win it all this year, which is a dramatic break from the attitude last year.
10. I THINK I may have a job in Los Angeles in a few months and I HOPE that I will get into these graduate programs I'm applying to. I was absolutely invigorated by the programs at UC Riverside and UC Santa Barbara. I will be thrilled to be a part of these programs. I just love communicating with intelligent, educated, passionate, open-minded people. It is so different from what I'm used to.
11. Chicken littles! Be forewarned! I'm going to go after you more aggressively than I will trolls (whom I will ignore). This is a year of celebration, not cynicism!
12. The season is young, but the only teams that I see that are truly monsters are the Lakers and Celtics. That's it. Denver, the Mavericks and Orlando are also pretty darned good, but they ain't no Lakers or Celtics.
What do we play for? RINGS!!!!
Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.
GO LAKERS!!!!!!
Posted by: Jon K. | November 06, 2009 at 11:39 AM
Does anyone know if they are they going to televise the ceremony tonight when the Celtics getting their CrackerJack rings for having the best record so far?
Posted by: exhelodrvr | November 06, 2009 at 11:42 AM
Mamba24/Edwin Guerco,
I've got a man-crush on Shannon Brown as much as the next guy, but it belies the question, "How good a distributor is Brown?"
Sure, the guy can dunk from the three-point line and I like his defense, but can he distribute the ball effectively? Just quickly thinking about things, Brown might be the eighth best distributor on the team. Is that what we NEED in a point guard?
What do we play for? RINGS!!!
Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.
GO LAKERS!!!!
Posted by: Jon K. | November 06, 2009 at 11:45 AM
The Hoops Freak,
"None of this will matter though, in the end, because Tony Parker will be playing for the Lakers in two seasons anyway."
I don't know if I should put my faith in that, BUT I do believe that after this season, we will attract players who want to win a Championship, even at the expense of a pay cut... which is an exciting prospect.
I just hope that we don't devolve into a 2004-type situation where we have a bunch of talented players who don't understand the Triangle. Sometimes knowing the system is equally as important as pure talent.
What do we play for? RINGS!!!
Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.
GO LAKERS!!!
Posted by: Jon K. | November 06, 2009 at 11:48 AM
Rocky/Laker Tom,
"Derek Fisher is the perfect fit for this team. He does exactly what this Laker team needs, and he does it better than anyone in the league aside from Chauncey Billups."
I agree. It annoys me that people don't recognize that Derek Fisher brings something special to this team that is not always shown in statistics except winning percentage.
What do we play for? RINGS!!!
Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.
GO LAKERS!!!!
Posted by: Jon K. | November 06, 2009 at 11:50 AM
Thirty2,
"Jon K ....Hope your trip out west went well man...."
Dude, it was great. If this job works out, I'll be back in L.A. no later than May and I was so impressed by the graduate programs at UC Riverside and UC Santa Barbara.
It was an absolute treat speaking with professors about subjects I'm passionate about and having them actually DISCUSS the subject with me appreciatively as opposed to looking at me like I'm a complete lunatic, which is the reaction I get here in Ohio when I attempt to discuss philosophical subjects with people.
If it ain't hate, misogynistic/misanthropic boasting, local sports,the discussion of chicken wings (really), and/or general complaining, Ohioans don't want to hear it, yo!
Coming back to L.A., I felt like I briefly returned to Sanityland, which was nice, believe you me.
What do we play for? RINGS!!!!
Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.
GO LAKERS!!!!
Posted by: Jon K. | November 06, 2009 at 11:57 AM
So, are we going to see Lamar Odom at center doing his best Magic Johnson impersonation?
That would be rad.
What do we play for? RINGS!!!!
Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.
GO LAKERS!!!!
Posted by: Jon K. | November 06, 2009 at 11:59 AM
Problem with Farmar is that his head is bigger that his production. He complains about playing time as much AI. And he ain't no AI.
All his positives aside, my major problem with him will ultimately kill his chances; he does not play smart. Bad choices, bad instincts, selfish, rushed, and one dimensional thinking. He's young, yes, but he's been around plenty.
Give Shannon the minutes please and trade Farmar. He can go to a run and gun team and never with a ring ever again. Strangely, maybe we should start Farmar so he does not feel the pressure to be the man when he is out there with Kobe, Ron, Pau and Drew. Give the crunch minutes to Fish and and Shannon some floor time on the 2 with Fish as part of the 2nd unit.
I have faith in Sasha, remarkably, but he needs to focus and be patient.
Ultimately though, I think we should trade Farmar for a back up veteran big.
Posted by: jq | November 06, 2009 at 12:02 PM
How is 3OH!3 not in KROQ's rotation?
How?
http://tinyurl.com/qnqhx7
What do we play for? RINGS!!!
Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.
GO LAKERS!!!!
Posted by: Jon K. | November 06, 2009 at 12:04 PM
ex - your weak attempt at humor is lost on me. Do they even make Craker Jack anymore? A TRUE Celtics fan knows the championship is not won in November, so you can give it up anytime now!!
Anyway, know what's funny?
28 million dollars sitting on a bench. Hope they at least have expensive suits on, "Drew" needs to look nice for the ladies.
Have a great day, and good luck with the mighty Griz tonight in yet another home game.
Maybe Wallace will trade you OJ Mayo for 6 cartons of OJ (Florida Natural) and some Mayo (Heilmans).
Posted by: Giant Green Bald-Headed Lunatic | November 06, 2009 at 12:05 PM
exheldovr,
"Does anyone know if they are they going to televise the ceremony tonight when the Celtics getting their CrackerJack rings for having the best record so far?"
I laughed.
What do we play for? RINGS!!!!
Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.
GO LAKERS!!!!
Posted by: Jon K. | November 06, 2009 at 12:07 PM
LakerTom thanks for the props.
Luke Walton is a decent NBA player. If he were cut by the Lakers today, there would be numerous teams that would have interest in his championship experience and great passing.
One thing about Luke is he always seems to step it up in the big games to help his team. Basketball people know that.
It wouldn't be long before Luke Walton finds another NBA city to work if he were cut. And it would probably be a championship contending team that does pick him up.
I'm sure the Jazz among many other teams would find Luke to be very useful.
Posted by: Rocky | November 06, 2009 at 12:29 PM
Go Lakers!
Posted by: Rocky | November 06, 2009 at 12:29 PM
The way I see it is the Lakers really haven't played all that well and are 4-1 - that translate to 65-66 win total over the season. The Lakers have done that without their second best player - Pau, while trying to incorporate Ron Artest as an option. Sure the C's get the prize for an impressive start, but as has been noted many times - it not how you start it is how you finish.
The Lakers will be fine. It is only November. With the injury to Pau, doesn't it make sense that it has been a struggle for the team and in particular the bench? Players are playing outside of their designated role and Artest is still figuring it out. While I am concerned about Fish, Sasha, and Farmar - it is a weakness but not so much so that it can't be overcome. The Lakers still won it with that same combo last year didn't they?
Finally in regards to health - I would much rather deal with injuries towards the front end of the season rather than in April, May and June.
Peace,
EagleBoy
Posted by: EagleBoy | November 06, 2009 at 12:32 PM
Giant Green - Thanks for the compliments on the handle! I'm a philosophy grad student originally from Cali, so I thought it would be interesting if I put both of those together.
I think this is amusement as well, since I'm in a state that will only broadcast Mavs, Rockets and Spurs games regularly. I do need my Lake Show fix, and this is a fantastic place to get it.
I would hope that you would point out hypocrisy on this blog; sometimes people need to know that what they're saying is incoherent/fallacious/contradictory. It keeps people sharp .
I laughed heartily when you said what you would say if you were a GM. Quite hilarious. :-)
I must confess that (being where I am) I haven't seen much of NBA action generally (I've seen most of the last 2 lake show games). With KG healthy, it looks like the C's have that intestinal fortitude that they had 2 years ago...which is scary, because it seems as if Orlando is the only team that has that same swagger. I think the christmas game this year should have been C's vs. Lake Show, because it would have been electric.
And you can call me Caliphilosopher or Cali-P. If I get my PhD, I'll probably change it to Dr. Caliphilosopher (but that's a while off). :-)
Hope your afternoon is going well! :-)
Posted by: Caliphilosopher | November 06, 2009 at 12:32 PM
Hi everyone!
Mamba24 - missing the game day roll call... whattup?
JonK - glad to hear it went well here in LA - hope you get to come back real soon.
I'm home suffering - cold? flu? effects of flu shot? Who knows... But I've got Laker games on the tivo and a game tonight to help me get over the hump!
I'm glad Socks isn't playing tonight. You can never be too careful when up against the Curse of Memphis.
Seriously though - much better to be short-handed sooner rather than later. Still - no one's happy - except maybe the bench guys - they can come in and prove something one way or the other. Hope it's the positive way.
Anyone notice that we've lost all Friday night games so far this year (pre & reg season)? Hope that's not a trend....
Timmeh looked about 80 years old last night. HAHAHAHA!! Ok - sorry - reigning that back in.... I'm just not seeing what others are talking about when holding the Spurs up to the Lakers and saying they're the 2nd best team in the West. Not seeing that at all...
I'm watching a Dr. Who marathon at the moment. I think I'm sicker than I thought...
See y'all on the live chat later....
GO LAKERS!!
Nothing but another title will suffice.
Posted by: justanothermambafan | November 06, 2009 at 12:33 PM
I think Gerald Green still has an chance to be successful under the right direction of that of Phil/Kobe..
Looks like we will never make a play for him though..
Posted by: lakersrydeordie | November 06, 2009 at 12:45 PM
BK/AK,
AK/BK:
I for one think you guys do a great job with your analysis. I don’t see you as being overly “pro” Lakers – that they can do no wrong, and I think most of your criticisms are legitimate and based in reason. A lot of what you write is exactly what I am thinking…not sure if that should scare you or not!
Not to puff up your ego’s but I appreciate that you seem to be of the Chick Hearn School of commentary. When the Lakers stink you call it, when they play well you give credit. Keep up the good work! We all appreciate having this forum and the fact you all run it so well.
Peace,
EagleBoy
Posted by: EagleBoy | November 06, 2009 at 12:50 PM