No extension likely for Jordan Farmar
Broderick Turner reports the news.
The Lakers have until October 31 to change their minds and offer a contract extension to Jordan Farmar, but I'd be surprised if they did. As a result, he'll likely enter next summer as a restricted free agent. Given the combination of current payroll and future obligations (for example, that Pau Gasol guy is going to need a new deal soon enough), the Lakers are undoubtedly approaching these situations with caution. Committing to Farmar if they're not convinced he'll be a major cog down the road- they're not, nor should they be- doesn't make much sense for the Lakers.
The risk is fairly minimal. It's unlikely Farmar will play so well that he'd command big bucks next summer in a crowded market, and if he's great, the Lakers can call him their PG of the future and are less likely to mind matching an offer. Everyone's a winner. Finally, not extending Farmar makes it much easier for the Lakers to move him this year if the opportunity arises. A multi-year extension makes that tough.It's all about flexibility.
BK
Farmar could flourish under a Larry Brown or an even better fit would be a Mike D'Antoni type of offense. Something that better utilized his speed and quickness. On our team, he's basically used to check the opponents speedier guards. The only problem being he isn't a very apt defender. He tries, he just doesn't seem to make it happen or put it all together or what have you.
His lack of defensive prowess often seems to cause him to make up for it on the other end. This either results in reckless and fruitless forays to the rim or three point shots with about 19 seconds on the shot clock and nary a rebounder in sight, save the opposition.
I would not be surprised to see him go in a low key deal mid season if we suffer any major injuries to our key bench guys or any of our starters.
In the end, I'd love for him to be a solid, consistent contributor off the bench, but I know he'll never see himself as that, therefor, he will always be striving on the court to show us all how good he could be.
A catch-22 if I ever saw one.
Posted by: Jamie Sweet | October 11, 2009 at 01:57 AM
Great point. I doubt the Lakers’ value of Jordan Farmar is equal to that of a core member of the team. Even though he has potential and at the current is a regular contributor, he is a luxury more than a necessity. I see Derek Fisher playing 2-3 more years and Shannon Brown elevating his game into the future (not to mention they locked him with a good bargain); therefore I don't see why they would pay Farmar any more than they do now. We all know he's going to want more than 2 million/year and this just doesn’t make sense for the Lakers.
I don’t think the Lakers are so desperate at the “point” position as we in the public/media make it out to be. With the amount of versatility we possess, I think we’re doing just fine. Besides, who cares if Derek Fisher can’t run around guarding the Chris Paul’s of the league during the regular season because we all know, come playoff time, Derek Fisher will outwit and out hustle the brightest of the new breed of point guards.
Posted by: Emo | October 11, 2009 at 04:02 AM
He has proved so many times that he is NOT a Lakers material. He is simply not talented enough.
Posted by: koko | October 11, 2009 at 06:08 AM
BK,
You are right. It's a smart bet. If Jordan does come through as point guard of the future, pay for the reality then. Fish's contract is up, so if it is Jordan's time you make the tough move and sign him and let Fish go (of course first you offer him the combo head coach / GM job).
In doubt Jordan will become a starter on a championship team, but I root for him every night.
Tom D.
Posted by: Tom Daniels | October 11, 2009 at 06:48 AM
I, for one, think this will be good for Jordan. It's an incentive to finally display the maturity that matches his skills. Physical limitations aside, it's Jordan's decision making that have made people question him. But the skills and quickness make him valuable. This indeed will be the season that determines whether Jordan is the Lakers' point guard of the future. Jordan will bet on himself and that's exactly what the Lakers need.
Posted by: Rick Friedman | October 11, 2009 at 07:19 AM
The good news here is that I think Jordan knows exactly what's going on with respect to his situation and isn't going to let the wait-and-see approach faze him. I think the platoon system with he and Shannon backing up Fish is going to end up paying real dividends to all three players this season - point guard "problem" solved.
Posted by: Jefe101 | October 11, 2009 at 08:02 AM
I don't think he's the PG of the future. To be honest, I think Shannon Brown would probably be the better candidate. As a matter of fact, I think next year Shannon should start and an aging Derek Fisher should back him in limited minutes.
Posted by: ignorance_intolerant | October 11, 2009 at 08:31 AM
Your reasoning totally makes sense.
The question is whether Farmar will realize his best chance to stay with the Lakers is to be a supporting team member, as opposed to thinking he has to prove himself worthy by being a hotshot and winning games by himself.
He's seen what happened when Ariza overplayed his hand, and he knows the upcoming 2010 free market agent will be crowded, so hopefully he'll accept reality, play within his capabilities this year, and ask for a reasonable contract afterwards.
Posted by: Scott | October 11, 2009 at 09:45 AM
I think this will be the last year Fish will be starting at the point. Brown is a perfect fit for the backup spot right now, and maybe the starter in the future. Remember, we don't need a scorer or even a top notch passer at that spot since Kobe, Pau, Lamar, and Thriller have the ball most of the time. All we need is a good defensive player who is athletic and can occasionally make a shot from distance. As of today, Brown posseses two of those traits and hopefully he can develop his jumper this season. As for Jordan, I like him, but he hasn't shown any amount of consistancy at the offensive or defensive end to take over the starting spot.
Posted by: mclyne | October 11, 2009 at 10:19 AM
BK,
I agree 100% with your analysis of Jordan’s situation. Where I probably differ from you and the current blog-sync-think is my belief that Jordan has a legitimate chance to become the Lakers point guard of the future for several reasons:
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First, I think that Lakers fans in general don’t appreciate what Jordan does bring to the table and focus too much on what he does not bring to the table. I’m not saying that his subpar performance last year was not partly to blame for this perception but I think Jordan is going to show this year that he has matured as a player and will perform well enough to become the first guard off the bench.
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What Jordan does bring to the table are the best ball handling and playmaking skills of any point guard on the team. He is the closest thing to a “true” point guard the Lakers have had since Magic. Phil has clearly stated that, even with their front court size, the intrinsic nature of this team is to run and push the ball in transition. That puts a premium on the skills Jordan has, especially in contrast to Shannon Brown. Jordan is the better ball handler, playmaker, and IMO 3-point shooter.
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The biggest complaint about Jordan is his man-to-man defense on the perimeter, which is something that he definitely needs to improve. Defensive effort and impact is definitely where Shannon has a big advantage over Jordan. The reality, however, is that team defense is the only way teams are going to prevent great quick point guards like Chris Paul and Tony Parker from penetrating. No lone defender can stop penetration by himself. I like that Jordan added upper body muscle during the offseason. He knows defense is where he needs to improve most and I think he will show great progress.
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Second, I think fans are being unrealistic as to what the Lakers really need at point guard. The 3 big things the Lakers need their point guard to do are (1) efficiently run the team and setup the offense, (2) play aggressive solid team defense, and (3) hit the open jump shot when everybody sags inside. The Lakers do not need another star player or a shut down defender at point. Rather they need a solid role player who can make their transition offense hum, run their half court offense efficiently, and play solid team-oriented defense to help prevent penetration by opposing point guards.
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Would I love to see the Lakers somehow wrangle a deal to get Ricky Rubio? Or even trade to get a veteran top defender who can play point like Captain Jack? Those are definitely my version of fantasy basketball and I could devote paragraph after paragraph to either scenario. But the Lakers don’t need another star or player of the caliber and stature of their other 4 starters. What they need is a point guard who can make the other 4 players on the court better. I think Jordan could be that player.
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Third, I think fans are being unrealistic about the options the team has to replace Derek Fisher, especially considering that they are over the luxury tax threshold and have to pay a dollar in taxes for every dollar they spend in salary. They are not going to trade Kobe, Drew, Pau, Ron, or Lamar and nobody is going to give them a quality point guard for anybody else on their roster. Nor do they have the dollars to bid for new point guard in free agency. So forget the ideas of getting Ricky Rubio or Chris Paul or some other great point guard prospect via a blockbuster trade or free agency.
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This means the Lakers are likely to continue with some form of the current platoon system at point guard for the next 2 or 3 years. It also means that the chances are good that either Jordan Farmar or Shannon Brown will eventually succeed Derek Fisher at point as opposed to the team going out and getting another player. I also think it is not impossible that the Lakers might re-sign all three point guards going forward. I could see Fish taking a small cut to play another 2 or 3 years and Jordan and Shannon be given similar contracts with slight raises. Much depends on how all 3 play this year.
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Finally, there are two other options that the Lakers will possibly consider to replace Derek Fisher once he retires – namely Kobe Bryant or Lamar Odom. While neither is the likely scenario to occur, Phil was right when he said that a lineup of Kobe, Drew, Pau, Ron, and Lamar could theoretically operate without a point guard since we run the Triangle Offense. Basically, the point guard duties both on offense and defense could be shared among the 5 players depending upon matchups. Maybe Lamar brings the ball up but Kobe guards the other team’s point guard. The ability of the guys in that lineup to play and defend multiple positions makes the Big 5 lineup a definite possibility to happen.
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At any rate, that’s my take on Jordan, whom I still believe can become our starting point guard.
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | October 11, 2009 at 10:56 AM
BK,
I agree 100% with your analysis of Jordan’s situation. Where I probably differ from you and the current blog-sync-think is my belief that Jordan has a legitimate chance to become the Lakers point guard of the future for several reasons:
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First, I think that Lakers fans in general don’t appreciate what Jordan does bring to the table and focus too much on what he does not bring to the table. I’m not saying that his subpar performance last year was not partly to blame for this perception but I think Jordan is going to show this year that he has matured as a player and will perform well enough to become the first guard off the bench.
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What Jordan does bring to the table are the best ball handling and playmaking skills of any point guard on the team. He is the closest thing to a “true” point guard the Lakers have had since Magic. Phil has clearly stated that, even with their front court size, the intrinsic nature of this team is to run and push the ball in transition. That puts a premium on the skills Jordan has, especially in contrast to Shannon Brown. Jordan is the better ball handler, playmaker, and IMO 3-point shooter.
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The biggest complaint about Jordan is his man-to-man defense on the perimeter, which is something that he definitely needs to improve. Defensive effort and impact is definitely where Shannon has a big advantage over Jordan. The reality, however, is that team defense is the only way teams are going to prevent great quick point guards like Chris Paul and Tony Parker from penetrating. No lone defender can stop penetration by himself. I like that Jordan added upper body muscle during the offseason. He knows defense is where he needs to improve most and I think he will show great progress.
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Second, I think fans are being unrealistic as to what the Lakers really need at point guard. The 3 big things the Lakers need their point guard to do are (1) efficiently run the team and setup the offense, (2) play aggressive solid team defense, and (3) hit the open jump shot when everybody sags inside. The Lakers do not need another star player or a shut down defender at point. Rather they need a solid role player who can make their transition offense hum, run their half court offense efficiently, and play solid team-oriented defense to help prevent penetration by opposing point guards.
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Would I love to see the Lakers somehow wrangle a deal to get Ricky Rubio? Or even trade to get a veteran top defender who can play point like Captain Jack? Those are definitely my version of fantasy basketball and I could devote paragraph after paragraph to either scenario. But the Lakers don’t need another star or player of the caliber and stature of their other 4 starters. What they need is a point guard who can make the other 4 players on the court better. I think Jordan could be that player.
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Third, I think fans are being unrealistic about the options the team has to replace Derek Fisher, especially considering that they are over the luxury tax threshold and have to pay a dollar in taxes for every dollar they spend in salary. They are not going to trade Kobe, Drew, Pau, Ron, or Lamar and nobody is going to give them a quality point guard for anybody else on their roster. Nor do they have the dollars to bid for new point guard in free agency. So forget the ideas of getting Ricky Rubio or Chris Paul or some other great point guard prospect via a blockbuster trade or free agency.
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This means the Lakers are likely to continue with some form of the current platoon system at point guard for the next 2 or 3 years. It also means that the chances are good that either Jordan Farmar or Shannon Brown will eventually succeed Derek Fisher at point as opposed to the team going out and getting another player. I also think it is not impossible that the Lakers might re-sign all three point guards going forward. I could see Fish taking a small cut to play another 2 or 3 years and Jordan and Shannon be given similar contracts with slight raises. Much depends on how all 3 play this year.
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Finally, there are two other options that the Lakers will possibly consider to replace Derek Fisher once he retires – namely Kobe Bryant or Lamar Odom. While neither is the likely scenario to occur, Phil was right when he said that a lineup of Kobe, Drew, Pau, Ron, and Lamar could theoretically operate without a point guard since we run the Triangle Offense. Basically, the point guard duties both on offense and defense could be shared among the 5 players depending upon matchups. Maybe Lamar brings the ball up but Kobe guards the other team’s point guard. The ability of the guys in that lineup to play and defend multiple positions makes the Big 5 lineup a definite possibility to happen.
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At any rate, that’s my take on Jordan, whom I still believe can become our starting point guard.
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | October 11, 2009 at 11:01 AM
Being that there are 30 teams, there will surely be interest in Jordan at some pay scale - that is if he plays well this year. He has not shown, in my eyes at least, enough flashes of good, steady play to merit a contract extension. If I were the Laker coach I would have Shannon Brown in that 2nd spot, since it is the triangle the Lakers run a point guard running the team isn't necessary.
I really like Farmar, followed him from Taft High School, was ecstatic he chose to go to UCLA, loved his play there, was overjoyed the Lakers got him, I thought he was the steal in the draft. I could envision him as Tony Parker, a speedy PG that can break you down or deceive you while slashing his way to the basket. I also envisioned him as a young Nick Van Exel. The way he's played however has been closer to Smush Parker than Tony Parker. I understand it he has not had consistent, steady minutes throughout his time with the Lakers, but he really hasn't made the most of those minutes he has gotten. He is erratic, sometimes keeps possession too long and overdribbles, and settles for some poor shots at times he should be letting a more skilled shooter take.
Farmar is very nice, an asset to team chemistry and community relations. Great to see a local kid make good. But honestly, this is the Lakers we're talking about, excellence should be sought after and achieved. Farmar has been less-than-excellent throughout his career. Maybe playing for a contract will help him with the focus/consistency he'll need to finally play at a top level day-in, day-out...
Posted by: CyberCosmiX (aka LakerMike) | October 11, 2009 at 11:21 AM
wow, last couple of days it's been quieter around here than the boston locker room after a playoff game.
LakerTom- you can say that again. Oh wait, you did.
I agree with BK's points entirely, but I really don't understand why anyone thinks that Shannon Brown has starting pg potential, even in the triangle. Nor can i really buy into LTom's argument that Odom or another big forward can give solid minutes at point. I'm not opposed to it, and I'm not saying it can't work, but I don't consider a lineup where our pg is 6'10, our sg is 6'6, our sf is 6'8ish and our bigs are 7'0 not only something we bring out of the back, but our basic, gets 30+ MPG lineup. Doesn't seem quite right.
And i while he definitely can run the offense, guard a 1 and bring the ball up the court, I don't see Kobe being a point guard unless (and i emphasize this, because I was one of the guys who agreed that it was possible) unless we can get a better two, one that can replace more of the outside/inside scoring that Kobe brings. Shannon Brown hasn't shown that he can be that guy either.
What I think is more likely is that this is a try it out year. It's not smart to go into an experiment with assumptions, but lets say our hypothesis is that someday, when Fisher is retired, Farmar is our starter and Brown is coming off the bench. Or our hypothesis is that Farmar is gone and Brown is our starter, with um...Mbenga coming off the bench.
My prediction of the outcome of that experiment is that we are going to have to shop for a new pg next year. I wonder if Nick Van Exel is available.
Posted by: phred | October 11, 2009 at 11:40 AM
The Lakers like big, solid defending, good three-point shooters for their PG. Farmar is small, and a mediocre defender (at best) and a mediocre three-point shooter, so he's 0-3 at this point. He needs to get better in at least one of those areas if they are going to keep him. (Assuming the performance of Brown and Fisher doesn't completely drop off this season.)
Posted by: exhelodrvr | October 11, 2009 at 11:43 AM
um, the second sentence of the third paragraph should read;
I can't really buy into LTom's argument that Odom or another big forward can give solid minutes at point. I'm not opposed to it. I'm not saying it can't work. I don't consider it an ideal lineup where our pg is 6'10, our sg is 6'6, our sf is 6'8ish and our bigs are 7'0. Not just something we bring out of the back, but our basic, gets 30+ MPG lineup. Doesn't seem quite right.
Posted by: phred | October 11, 2009 at 11:45 AM
LakerTom: I like the points you make, especially Jordan's ball-handling skills and the fact that the Lakers don't need a super-star PG - especially running the triangle - but a solid, steady role-player (like D-Fish is).
What is very intriguing though is the thought the Lakers may be able to get Ricky Rubio in a trade. There are several reasons that would be an excellent trade, starting with the fact we already have a Spaniard in Pau to ease his transition to L.A./the NBA/the Lakers. Rubio would also have less pressure here than in other places, such as Minnesota, who would be looking for him to mature quickly. The Lakers could afford to give him time given the quality players around him. He would also have the perfect mentor in D-Fish to give him the tutelage he needs.
The trade I proposed earlier this summer is Jordan Farmar/Luke Walton or Sasha plus a number-1 pick for Rubio's rights and a T'wolf scrub to make the numbers work, a Mark Blount or Brian Cardinal, one of those types of stiffs with not more than a year or max 2 left on their deals. If the T'Wolves want 2 number-1's or some other Laker bench player, then go for it. Now that Rambis is the T'Wolves coach, I'm sure he'd like a couple of former pupils to join him in Minnesota, plus this also gives Jonny Flynn a clear chance to play for the T'Wolves.
If I were Mitch I would be exploring that trade every day. I totally agree with LakerTom, that also would provide some rookie-salary scale to the Lakers that are well over the salary cap.
I would LOVE to see Rubio as a Laker!!!
Posted by: CyberCosmiX (aka LakerMike) | October 11, 2009 at 11:53 AM
Farmar's issue is all attitude.
He has plenty talent, intelligence, work ethic... he just lacks humility. He wants to play the game his way as opposed to the way it needs to be played. It's a team sport after all.
What do we play for? RINGS!!!
Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.
GO LAKERS!!!
Posted by: Jon K. | October 11, 2009 at 11:56 AM
Mike,
LOL. I would have absolutely no problem trading anybody but our top 6 to get Rubio. But if I am going to fantasize, why not go with somebody already on the team like Andrew Bynum? But in my dreams, I can finally dunk and the Lakers trade for Ricky Rubio. I’ve coveted him since I first read about him as a 16-year old Peter Maravich wanna-be. He has it all plus size and youth. While the Triangle doesn’t need a true point guard, there is no doubt that having one would make it run even better and turbo charge our natural desire to want to run and fast break. I agree it would be sweet.
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | October 11, 2009 at 12:24 PM
ex
>>> The Lakers like big, solid defending, good three-point shooters for their PG.
>>> Farmar is small, and a mediocre defender (at best) and a mediocre three-point shooter,
>>> so he's 0-3 at this point. He needs to get better in at least one of those areas if they are
>>> going to keep him. (Assuming the performance of Brown and Fisher doesn't completely
>>> drop off this season.)
Sometimes in life, you don’t get what you want and have to do with what you can get – or in this case, what you got. Sometimes you are better off giving up some of traits you ideally want in order to take advantage of other capabilities and strengths that a particular player possesses. You are right that Jordan Farmar does not fit the prototype model of a Phil Jackson Triangle Offense point guard. But I think you underestimate the abilities and benefits that Jordan Farmar offers as a point guard.
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We all forget sometimes how young Jordan Farmar still is. And because of his attitude and subpar play last year, we also have forgotten how well he is really capable of playing and what an impact he can have on the team winning. Tex Winter was one who really pushed Phil to expand the transition offense to take advantage of Jordan’s skills and talents. And Phil consistently reminds us that it is the intrinsic nature of this team to want to run. At his best, Jordan gives the Lakers a new dimension.
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The critics who say that Jordan’s problem is his decision making rather than his talent are dead right. But consider this: What if Jordan suddenly matures and starts to play errorless basketball? What if the additional upper body muscle he added at the team’s request during the offseason helps him play much better defense? This is not out of the realm of possibility. Jordan Farmar knows this and I expect him to come out and play the best basketball of his life. He wants to be a Laker for Life.
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Sometimes something happens that gives you a glimpse of what a player is really made of. With Drew, it was getting back up and dunking on Shaq. With Jordan, it was his play during UCLA’s loss in the NCAA title game to Florida, where he was the only Bruin he would not be intimidated or stopped. Like Kobe and Drew, Jordan can be headstrong at times to his own disadvantage but the flip side of that is a level of personal confidence in your abilities that is essential to becoming a clutch player.
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I think Jordan can be a special player and that he will begin to really show that this year. He knows he has the perfect opportunity to become the Lakers starting point guard and a Laker player for Life. All he needs to do is play aggressively, protect each possession, and let the game come to him, which will lead to errorless basketball. He has the talent and ability to be an NBA starter if he does. IMO.
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | October 11, 2009 at 01:00 PM
Like I wrote before Farmar and Ammo for AI It would work money and talent wise. No need for PG in Triangle and coming off the bench for fisher. gives them bot a good break cuz they older. But AI coul give you 17ppg and 3-4 Assist off thebench(probaly more like 13-15ppg now that i think it over lol)
Posted by: Blackmamba24 | October 11, 2009 at 01:13 PM
Angels make short work of Red Sox.
That was easy, Sox just a bunch of wimps like the greenies. All talk and full of hot air.
Didn't someone here boast that the Red Sox would handle the Angels and then demolish the Dodgers in the series?
Its hard to demolish someone if you can't get past an early round.
Sox - None and done
Posted by: Fatty | October 11, 2009 at 01:25 PM
Congratulations, Angels…
Only thing better than the Celtics losing is the Red Sox losing. Papelbon proves he is no Rivera.
Unfortunately, it’s going to be a Yankees-Dodgers World Series with the Bronx Bombers prevailing.]
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | October 11, 2009 at 01:58 PM
Pau Gasol ranked number #14 from Slam Online:
"Then you’ve got Pau Gasol, the pivot man Evolved. Gasol, is, first and foremost, one of the league’s deadliest low-post scorers. He has a simple but devastating set of weapons from the block. He has a beautiful jump hook that he’s great at setting up with deep position, he’s confident with his left hand around the basket, he has a disgustingly fast back-to-basket spin move that leaves defenders wondering what happened, he’s comfortable facing up slower bigs and blowing by them, and he’s athletic, strong, and crafty around the basket when he finds himself out of position near the rim. All of this leads to huge dividends from the inside-60% of Gasol’s shots come from inside, and he made a ridiculous 64% of his shots from down there, a fantastic mark, with barely over half of those shots coming off assists. And with a 78% mark from the stripe last season, fouling Gasol doesn’t help matters much either. Despite the fact many still think of him as a soft player or a natural 4, Gasol is as much of a force on the block as any player in the league.
But of course, Gasol is so much more than just a low-post player, and that’s what elevated him into a crucial part of a championship team. He’s fabulous playing the high-post, which of course makes him invaluable in the triangle. He’s an outstanding passer for his size-only Brian Cardinal , Boris Diaw, Lamar Odom, Jared Jeffries, and Andrei Kirilenko had better assist ratios at power forward than Gasol, and all of them had worse turnover rates. (Among players listed at center who played significant minutes, only Ronny Turiaf, Brad Miller, Jeff Foster, and Al Horford had better assist ratios, and all of their listings at center are far more questionable than Gasol’s, with the possible exception of Horford. And again, all of their turnover rates were worse.) And Dirk Nowitzki, Antonio McDyess, and Darius Songalia were the only big men who posted a better shooting percentage from midrange than Gasol’s 46%.
Gasol also runs the floor incredibly well for his size, and was a key to the Lakers’ deadly fast-break; among teams that made the playoffs, only the Nuggets had a faster-paced offense, and that was only by a hair. That skill certainly came in handy for the Lakers when Gasol was there to catch Kobe’s amazing pass in a two-for-one situation in the crucial game 4 of last year’s finals.
That does, of course, lead to somewhat of an elephant in the room when it comes to discussing Gasol’s effectiveness; the fact that the rest of the league’s big men don’t have Kobe Bryant on their team. Kobe does, of course, make life a lot easier for Gasol-Gasol doesn’t have to take bad shots at the end of the clock, defenses can’t load up against him, and he’s the recipient of plenty of weak-side dunks thanks to Kobe’s unsurpassed ability to find big men with passes from impossible angles in traffic, often from mid-air. It just can’t be denied that playing with Kobe Bryant makes other players better-Kobe even managed to make Kwame Brown look halfway decent for a few years.
But while it would be silly to pretend that playing with Bryant hasn’t helped Gasol tremendously on the court, the degree to which Gasol has seamlessly blended his game with Kobe’s to give the Lakers one of the best offenses ever does deserve some praise. Gasol’s versatility has been key in helping him become the league’s best beta dog. (Spoiler alert: no player with a player higher than him on this list on his own team is ranked higher than Gasol. If I end up mysteriously disappeared for divulging this, so be it.)
When Gasol gets the ball in the high post, he’s a good enough passer to find Kobe cutting to the basket or left alone for a three. When Kobe’s driving, Gasol has the hands and hops to catch and finish around the basket, and the range to step back and keep the floor stretched. When the defense tries to key in on Kobe, Gasol can take the ball on the block and punish the single coverage or rotate it back out to Kobe on the weak side if they do bring a double. And of course, Gasol is smart and humble enough not to start demanding the ball, going for his own shots, and keeping Kobe from doing his thing if he’s feeling it. It’s rare to see two great offensive players who are versatile enough not to have to give something up when they’re playing with each other, but Kobe and Gasol have managed to do just that, to the tune of a ring.
The only thing approaching a caveat when it comes to Gasol is the fact that, despite his listing, he’s a very, very good power forward, but a downright special center. He is a player who’s at his best offensively down low, and prefers to work from the inside-out. The stats bear this out-Gasol played twice as much center as power forward last season, and his PERs jumped from 21 to 26 when he played center. The Lakers also played much better as a team with him at the 5, averaging 10.4 net points per 48 minutes to 6.0 points per 48 when he was at power forward. In the playoffs, this split got even more pronounced. He played three times as much center as power forward in the playoffs, and his PER jumped from 14.0 to 26.0, with the Lakers’ net points per 48 going from 1.2 to 10.2.
However, while he certainly did more than an acceptable job against Dwight Howard defensively in the finals last season, he’s somewhat of a tweener defensively. He can get out on the pick-and-roll pretty well and has good length and size inside, but he’s not quite strong enough to mark the league’s most hulking centers or quickest power forwards. And of course, the Lakers are invested in the development of Andrew Bynum, a hugely promising young true center. Between Gasol, Bynum, Odom, and Artest, someone is going to have to sit during crunch-time (unless Kobe plays point, which could well work and would be kind of awesome), and even a frontcourt of Gasol, Bynum, and Odom would have trouble keeping the floor spaced without a true three-point threat. But overall, having too much talent is a good problem to have, and there are few people better suited to figure out those problems than Phil Jackson, Kobe, and Gasol. I’m not sure how exactly it will work, but I’m fairly certain that it will, if that makes sense.
Pau Gasol may well be a vision of what the dominant post players of the future will look like-the same beautiful set of moves from the block and mid-post, and someone who will gladly destroy single coverage if he gets it, but also someone quick and versatile enough to make the pass, step out and hit the jumper, or run the floor on a fast-break when the increasingly drive-and-kick nature of the game demands it. Of course, Gasol might just be so good that we won’t see another like him for a long, long time."
Posted by: KB Blitz | October 11, 2009 at 02:11 PM
I have bashed Farmar heaps on this blog...And i cant see it changing any time soon...
I was hoping the Lakers could have picked AC LAW but instead took the Critter..
Law flopped in Atlanta,but seems to be playing a little better in the pre-season with the Warriors..
I think the Lakers have started shopping already by not giving him a starting point for a contract..Once that deal comes along...BANG...Mitch will pull that trigger just like the Vlad,Ariza and Cook deal went down....
Posted by: Thirty2 | October 11, 2009 at 02:15 PM
Laker Tom
If the Dodgers and Yankees meet in the Series......
"Of course, you know this means war!"
Posted by: Fatty | October 11, 2009 at 02:56 PM
Papelbon has been tremendous during his entire 4+ year career, but today was not his day. It was bound to happen at some point.
Rivera is the greatest reliever ever, and by a very wide margin.
Congrats, Angels...now go win the AL crown!
Posted by: RED`S LOVE CHILD | October 11, 2009 at 02:58 PM
Congrats to the Angels - they never gave up!! Love their desire to win and play until the end!!!!
Hoping for the Dogders-Angels World Series!!! And I can't STAND the yankees - what team can't win if you buy up all the best players and have a payroll that's nearly twice as much as the 2nd highest paid team. (Well - let's not talk about the stinking Raiders!!! That team is an absolute embarrassment!!!)
Posted by: Dan | October 11, 2009 at 03:06 PM
KB BLitz,
Good column.
Posted by: exhelodrvr | October 11, 2009 at 03:07 PM
LakerTom,
Farmar would be mediocre on other teams, too. He's not quick enough, relative to other PGs, to make up for his size. If he did have that kind of potential, there would be plenty of trade offers from other teams.
Posted by: exhelodrvr | October 11, 2009 at 03:10 PM
Farmar is fast as in a sprinter. His quickness has been an issue and that's where it hurts him defensively. If he had CP3's quickness we wouldn't need Shannon Brown since that would not only help him defensively but would make his cross over moves much more deadlier.
Farmar needs to be ball dominant to make a big difference consistently. Unfortunately he's not as talented as he thinks he is and that's what sets Laker fans off is how exciting he can be when he's on but so damn terrible when he's off his game.
And Laker Tom the closest PG to be like Magic Johnson after Magic retired was Nick Van Exel. No other PG's have been close to Earvin was.
And Phred, Magic was 6'9 just only 1 inch less than Lamar Odom.
Posted by: KB Blitz | October 11, 2009 at 03:41 PM
I feel the best situation for Jordan will be with a team needing a point guard that controls the offense. The Lakers need a point guard that can shoot lights out, I love D-Fish he's just to slow, can't stay in front of any point guards in the west. His outside shot in to inconsistence, the triangle is a motion offense, teams will leave fish open with better odds he's not going to make the shot.
Posted by: Lionel I. Hill | October 11, 2009 at 04:31 PM
Dear Jamie Sweet,
"humanomaly is the new Mike T.
At least Kwame had an impact on the team...and on birtdays.
Posted by: Jamie Sweet | October 06, 2009 at 02:14 PM" (back on the post about GM's)
Look Jamie, I pushed for a player, Sun Yue, who I believed could have been a good player, and I root for the diversity of our team, Sun to me I prayed he would be able to integrate, being Chinese myself,..especially if triangle is still around in a few years. He had a few bumps in the road, starting with the mono, but I don't go to Laker practices, so I never saw him play against NBA players. Did you see the 29 minutes he played last year??? I did not. I conceded my push, in a response I believe to Jon K. As I said, over and over, he is a long term project that will probably never pan out, because China will keep yanking his chain for their national team. Jamie, I have always respected your posts. I know mine go off into different tangents at times, that's because I post often very late at night, due to my work schedule, and insomnia. I do take offense to your equating me to Mike T. and the "Kwame" calves days. I just wanted a 6'9" player who could handle the ball, and would eventually catch up athletically. If you have any other issues bring em up, because I don't really care, I have many more important things to do currently than follow the blog daily, and I probably won't be able to watch my dvr recordings of the games, as I don't get home from work till typically midnite and I have more important people to do.
They would have paid him minimum and I think the gamble for a better look would have been worth it, compared to some of the end of the benchers and players 13,14 & 15 in the days they would not hesitate to carry that many players. I scoffed when people were talking about picking up Nate Robinson, I believe he would have disrupted team chemistry. Do you think Sun did, or would have? Anyway, as I said, I conceded, and I have nothing but high hopes for this years team and the years that will follow. Kwame was useless from the moment I first saw him, in the 2 preseason games in Hawaii against the Warriors, then coached by Mike Montgomery (as he approached Phil to greet him, Phil blew him off). Kwame was truly a fortunate person to have cashed so many checks merely due to having the body build that he had. I'm sure he probably dropped the pen every time he cashed his paychecks. Have a nice day, and I hold no ill will toward you or any other Laker bloggers, but I will rip into the anti-Laker bloggers, and I did make note, that all those bloggers who jumped in after they won #15, were merely "bandwagon" people, only fairweather fans...whereas I am a fan, regardless of winning or losing seasons.
Sincerely,
Hman
Regarding Jordan Farmar and the fact that the Lakers are not going to extend his contract and let him swim the waters of free agency, restricted, which puts him in a lower bargaining position, because most teams probably will not bother, knowing that the Laker's will match. It would only take an owner/GM on another team that wants to rock the Laker's boat by talent harvesting, not actually for the benefit of having him on their team, but to take away a component from the Laker's team. Not extending a contract asap is the same trend obviously that they have been playing recently. It's a trend, not an ANOMALY. He will do fine this year. The suggestion of him slowing down and playing under a little more control would benefit the team, I believe is true. The need for him and Sasha to acknowledge each other on the court if that issue exists needs to be addressed. It probably wasn't, it was probably let go, just one of Phil's "Mind Games".
Posted by: humanomaly (aka "The Anti-Crust") | October 11, 2009 at 04:46 PM
LakerTom - "This means the Lakers are likely to continue with some form of the current platoon system at point guard for the next 2 or 3 years." Yep, sounds about right.
BlackMamba24 - I'd do that trade as well but I can't see why Memphis would. They brought AI in to sell tickets.
Posted by: dave m | October 11, 2009 at 04:51 PM
Patriots lose today too!! Love it!!! Can't stand belichick and anything out of boston.
Posted by: Ben | October 11, 2009 at 04:58 PM
Blitz- So you are saying that Pau is pretty good? Good to know, especially considering our disapointing finish last season and all. j/k
But seriously, good points, although I'm not sure what was you and what was slam online.
I know how tall Magic was (and presumably still is, i suppose,) I guess the way I said it was too close to saying that any lineup with a tall pg couldn't work, as opposed to saying I think that the proposed tall lineup for next years team didn't seem quite ideal. Sorry if there was any misunderstanding. wouldn't want to get any arguments over minor semantic details.
Looking back at it, i'm not sure why I bothered to say that at all. I was just describing my gut reservations, which are of course not based on any particular absolute truth or even verifiable fact. And I would hate to think anybody on this blog could be swayed by any argument so lacking.
Um, what do you call it when you are trying to be ironic and end up saying something that is actually your point? I think I just did that.
Anyway. I think that we can agree that for whatever reason, the big three lineup didn't work last year, but that was last year. New year, who knows what can happen. And I'm sticking by that.
Posted by: phred | October 11, 2009 at 05:05 PM
L.A. amazing comebacks of the year (so far):
3) Game 2 NLDS: Dodgers down 1 with 2 outs in the ninth, Holliday muffs a fly ball (in fairness, it was hard to catch), win with 2 run rally
2) Game 3 ALDS: Angels down 2 with 2 outs in the ninth, win with 3 run rally
1) Game 4 NBA Finals: Lakers rally from double-digit deficit in 4th, Fisher nails a 3-pointer to force OT which Lakers win
Posted by: Scott | October 11, 2009 at 05:08 PM
“I know mine go off into different tangents at times, that's because I post often very late at night, due to my work schedule, and insomnia
-human
Add ‘booze and recreational narcotics’ to that list and I think you nailed the blog demographic. And hey, human, i’m sorry that you feel you have to defend yourself for such a slanderous charge. I mean, I must have missed Jamie’s post, but invoking the Calf-man himself in such circumstances is just dirty pool. Nobody was going to take that comparison seriously. I mean, Mike T was in a class by himself.
HEY! WHAT’S WITH ALL THIS LYIN’ AROUND *&%#!
EVERYBODY WITH ME NOW!
IT IS ALL ABOUT THE LOVE!
GO LAKERS!
Posted by: phred | October 11, 2009 at 05:14 PM
Oh, and Laker Tom.....sorry man......GO DODGERS
Posted by: Thirty2 | October 11, 2009 at 05:25 PM
Jordan at his best has proven to be an explosive scorer off the bench and tempo changer. At his worst he's played careless with the ball and let one bad play affect future plays.
I know he can score. But can he be a good QB? He has not shown that IMO. That is what I want to see. Maybe this is the year the light goes on for Jordan. I hope so. If it does he'll be rewarded if not by the Lakers, then by some other team.
Posted by: LRob | October 11, 2009 at 05:33 PM
Sweet compared Human to Mike T??! Haha, I must have missed that one. Nothing like getting the blog stirred up and ready for the season. Usually I preach nice things here but sometimes we need a little action. Edwin, your punctuation is turrible! Tom, you hippie pinko stoner!! Ex, you couldn't beat me in a game of horse if I spotted you h thru s!!
Posted by: dave m | October 11, 2009 at 06:12 PM
Farmar is NOT 6'2", he looks like he's 5'9" or something AND he has short arms. His "defense" is nonexistent. It would make sense to showcase Farmar in the first half of the season, by that time it should be clear if Shannon Brown is capable of being a starter or if a vet needs to be brought in. If Farmar is playing well enough, the Lakers could move him and bring in either a quick, young guard to provide some spot defense or even for a draft pick - again, depending on how well Shannon Brown is doing. If Shannon takes another step forward, forget it, you could run a rotation of him and Fisher for the next 2 years and bring in some rookie next year for spot minutes AND he would be cheap for a couple of years, double bonus on that one...
Posted by: Porky Pig | October 11, 2009 at 06:24 PM
LakerTom
On this we will never agree. The World Series will be decided in California this year, be it Freeway series or Anaheim Philly/COlorado.
The Angels will demolish the Yankees or face a gritty Twins team fresh off their Yankee upset.
The Yankees have tried to buy the World Series since 2000, their record in that near decade long pursuit? O-fer. They've been ousted out of the first round most years in and most embarrasingly (and in my opinion most fittingly) the send off of mystic, magical, historical Yankee Stadium went by without so much as a playoff appearance.
George Steinbrenner is no Jerry Buss and he's not even on the same level as Arte Moreno when it comes to ownership class.
I'll pause for the futile and worthless argument that the Angels changed their name to the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim. Silly, yes. Has noting to do with the playing of the game. The New York Mets will back me up on that one. The difference? Arte did it in the era of over-analysis. Plus it has the added benefit of giving the Angels an air of controversy, however, ludicrous, which has given the players on the team extra motivation to prove the naysayers and doubters wrong. To be honest, The Mighty Ducks (now just the Ducks) had the hardest, worst road to legitimacy in sports. That distinguished title now belongs to the OKC Thunder.
Who would want to play for a hokey team based on a kids movie? Now that they've won a Stanley cup and challenged for it every year thereafter, quite a few players.
But I digress. Today is a day that I have waited for since 1986. I was a young lad of 12 in 1986 when Dave Henderson hit a home run off of Donnie Moore and subsequently tore my 12 year old heart out of my 12 year old chest. I remember quite lucidly the long walk down the concourse to the car, my mother telling me the Angels still had a chance to win back in Boston. The throngs of Boston fans hooting and hollering in our stadium. Of course, the Red Sox would not lose to the Angels. But as a twelve year old lad, no one was as happy as I to see Bill Buckner boot that grounder and give the Mets the series.
It was on that day my absolute, vicarious hatred of all sports Bostonian was born, crystallized and turned into adamantium hardened claws of focus. My hatred of the Yankees is second to this. I have a day dream I would like to share. It's a worthless game in June, Yankees vs Red Sox in magical, historical Fenway park. The stadium is packed. 7th inning stretch, tie game, suddenly the roar of an approaching meteor is heard. It's zero ground impact is Fenway Park. Tragically it wipes both teams and a large contingent of the Boston faithful from the face of the earth along with that quirky, magical ball park. A sorry day, to be sure. Of course this could never happen and were it to happen, I would not feel glee, but sadness. It is however, a viscous dream that brings me comfort.
So just this once, GO ANGELS!!!!!!
But I see some valid points in your opinion of Farmar, most of which I shared in the offseason and then recanted against after a scant few pre-season games. I said in the off-season that Farmar and Bynum should be given a chance to be a great Laker tandem. I still believe that, even if I feel in my heart of hearts that events may conspire against it.
Posted by: Jamie Sweet | October 11, 2009 at 06:40 PM
Kobe Blitz-
Next time, if it's possible to just provide the link to the story you're referencing, that would be better. Just to help keep comment size down.
Thanks.
BK
Posted by: Brian Kamenetzky | October 11, 2009 at 06:49 PM
D-E-S-T-I-N-Y...Scott, you said it right LA teams all the way in 2009. I couldn't watch the Red Sox leading throughout the morning and then suddenly at noon time in LA,Angels grabbed in the 9th with one out remaining. unbelievable! This is a payback to all past frustrationst that led to suicide of a relief pitcher, Donnie Moore when he gave a homerun to Henderson also on 2 outs in the 9th. It was a heartbreaker in mid 80's with Reggie Jackson, Don Baylor, Fred Lynn and Tommy John with the Angels. Who is next? Well, LakerTom Yankees are leading so I think they are about to grab to AL East.Why is it I have this uneasy feeling that these Yankees are likened to Drew Bynum, all I see is power play, power faces and power money, Men of Steinbrenner. lol!
With regards to Farmar, it is too early to dis our own player who will help this team for a repeat. I think there is a room for Jordan to play with
Shannon and relieved Fisher all year long. However, to go for early contract in October, no...no... not again. Lakers learned their lessons with Drew and I don' think the three PG's deserved too much attention during a luxury tax year. Farmar can't carry the Lakers offense and continue to make bad decisions whenever he goes inside, couldn't make good decision with the ball whether to shoot or pass and being small dude in a crowded lane he commits T/O. We have seen this style in the past I think he learned this move from a great scrub, Smush! Comparing them to the lowly Warriors, who have youthful and high calibre PG's, Ellis and Curry, our PG's were no match in speed and penetration. Laker PG's moves like C3P0 and R2D2 of Star Wars. (Dave, lots of punctuations here) lol!!! Warrior's reserved PG is speedy Claxton. Lakers should continue looking for a Fisher's replacement in 2 years time. I hope it is Shannon but he is not apt to a PG starter at this time, although I love his height and explosiveness. He should start being aggressive of going to the middle setting himself as a decoy to open up the shooters in the perimeters. Lakers are known to be recruiters of the best players in order to make Shannon shine to his best, they should continue aiming for Ricky Rubio. A healthy competition will produce the best results in people.
Posted by: Edwin Gueco | October 11, 2009 at 07:00 PM
As BK explained it, the management decision re Farmar is the one that makes the most sense. Quite simply Jordan has not proved beyond doubt that he is the starting PG of the future otherwise the Lakers would have signed him for a contract extension the same way they did Bynum. Players like Bynum are rare in the NBA, in the world for that matter, a skilled 7 footer, whereas players like Farmar, skilled 6 foot PGs, are a dime a dozen. Planet earth probably produces more good short PGs a year than any other type of basketball player. There could be a PG playing somewhere in the world in high school or college right now that could be the Lakers' starting PG of the future. Meanwhile even sans Farmar the Lakers can have a platoon of Fisher and Brown for the next 2, 3 years.
Posted by: LakerinBC | October 11, 2009 at 07:20 PM
dave m- nice try at pot stirring. And you avoided the easy way out of Bynum bashing-LakerTom baiting, relying instead on more of a political/lifestyle sort of blow. You didn’t even mention the possibility of senility. Props. And ruthlessly pointing out ex’s weak H-O-R-S-E skills instead of focusing on his more obvious failings in prognostication as well as his horrible personal failings.
And I think Edwin's problem isn't so much punctuation as a horrible combination of badly constructed sub-clauses, badly intentioned clauses and an abominable lack of awareness as to the existence of the paragraph.
Also if you really want to get serious, you should misquote AK, praise Luke Walton, and come up with a ridiculously random set of criteria by which you prove that the Phoenix Suns are the greatest NBA team of both this and the last millennia.
nyuck nyuck.
Sorry Edwin, i know, i know, you do so have a sense of humor.
(I am so dead. Sorry guys, much love. We just spend so much time with each other, it’s easy to focus on the negative instead of just saying how awesome you guys really are, and how cool it is that we all have this one little NBA team to bring us all together, ignore our differences, and remind us how much
IT REALLY IS ALL ABOUT THE LOVE!
(DON RICKLES, EAT YOUR HEART OUT)
APOLOGIES TO ALL OF THE OTHER OH SO WORTHY BLOG MEMBERS THAT I DID NOT SKEWER FACETIOUSLY!
GO LAKERS!
P.S. BK HAS NO HAIR! SERIOUSLY! BALD AS A CUE BALL!
Posted by: phred | October 11, 2009 at 07:33 PM
And be sure to mock phred's propensity towards going way overboard on various tangents based on his own horribly mistaken approximation of his own ability to be humorous. That definitely needs pointed out.
Posted by: phred | October 11, 2009 at 07:36 PM
ok, it's possible that like that old uncle that overdid it on the madeira that one christmas, i might have overdone it a bit. Sorry, Edwin.
and, um, BK. Cheap shot there.
(hey, blog wise, I consigned myself to the loony bin on a slow day in July. this is the internet, y'all know.)
Posted by: phred | October 11, 2009 at 07:43 PM
I'm sure we'd all love to see a great point guard in the lineup, but let's face it: This team is built to win if we had one of the Sisters of Mercy playing point.
Besides, I have a sneaking feeling that, if Brown learns what PJ wants him to learn this year, we'll be set for the remainder of the Kobe years.
Posted by: Marty | October 11, 2009 at 07:58 PM
Jamie,
>>> The Angels will demolish the Yankees or face a gritty Twins team fresh off their Yankee upset.
-
LOL. I know the Angels have given the Yankees fits in the playoffs the last few years but this is a different Yankees team this time, more like the late 90’s club. Oh, and the gritty Twins are now dust.
-
>>> The Yankees have tried to buy the World Series since 2000, their record in that near decade
>>> long pursuit? O-fer. They've been ousted out of the first round most years in and most
>>> embarrassingly (and in my opinion most fittingly) the send off of mystic, magical, historical
>>> Yankee Stadium went by without so much as a playoff appearance.
-
It doesn’t bother me that the Yankees have been one of the smartest teams about creating a brand name and building a business around the team that generates the largest revenue stream in the MLB. What bothers me is that they have not spent it wisely the last 7 or8 years. Instead of Reggie Jackson and Catfish Hunter, they signed losers like Carl Pavano and Kevin Brown. Last year, they got it right and signed C.C. Sabathia and Mark Teixeira, who have already paid big dividends.
-
>>> George Steinbrenner is no Jerry Buss and he's not even on the same level as Arte Moreno
>>> when it comes to ownership class.
-
Arte Moreno? Moreno is a joke as an owner compared to Steinbrenner, whose Yankee teams won 10 American League pennants and 6 World Series championships. How many championships has Arte brought the Angels? Zero. Of course, the Yankees lead the Angels in championships 26 to 1. But the Angels will be a good appetizer for the Yankees to devour on their way towards crushing L.A.
-
As for your hatred of anything Bostonian, I completely agree, which is why I applauded the Angels defeat of Boston, even though it will mean a tougher path for my Yankees. I am the Anti-Boston fan. Lakers over is going to Celtics. Yankees over Red Sox. Next to beating the Red Sox comes beating the Dodgers. This will be a satisfying 27th World Series victories for the Yankees. Yankee-Lakers parlay.
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | October 11, 2009 at 08:11 PM