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Fisher, Farmar, and Brown: Not a law firm

I've said it before, I'll say it again: The Lakers are a rock solid squad thick with talent and thin on major concerns. That doesn't mean there aren't interesting and potentially significant details to kick around. Lakers Point Guards We've hit on the whole Complacency Thing. Monday, we talked about the playing time issues in the front court. Among the guards, there's an interesting dynamic as well, with Derek Fisher, Jordan Farmar, and Shannon Brown jockeying for minutes. Meanwhile, all three can or will be free agents the end of the season (Brown has the right to opt out of the two year deal he signed this summer).

Fish has made it very clear he'd like to keep playing beyond this season. Like most young players, Farmar wants to start. Brown is looking to build on a strong end to last season and continue to solidify his place in the league. Individually, they'll all be motivated to put up numbers. When we talked to Fish before camp started, he noted that it's up to the three of them, with the vet taking a leadership role, to make sure nobody loses sight of the big picture:

"It's a very interesting dynamic at that point guard position, because you have three different guys in three totally different situations. It's going to be very important that all three of us understand- starting with me, being the veteran guy and the most experienced guy, in terms of making sure that although I understand this is my "contract year," and I plan on playing beyond this year and want to continue to prove to myself and as well to other people that age is not this arbitrary thing that automatically means your performance has to decline. So I'm going to continue to push my performance, and those two guys will do the same thing. But there will always remain one commonality, and that's that we're on a championship caliber team. So myself, Jordan and Shannon will constantly have to fight with ourselves to keep that in mind, that even though we want to make sure we're holding on to our standing as far as what we want to accomplish professionally and personally, still the ultimate goal is to win a championship, and that has to fit into that picture. If it doesn't, especially because it's the lead guard spot, it could make it very difficult for everyone else."

Talking to Brown Monday at practice, he seems to have a solid handle on the issue, and a firm grasp of priorities. The relationship between the three of them, he says, is good:

"I think everybody knows what they have to do. Make the most of whatever minutes you get. Go out there, play hard, and let it fall where it may. Whether it be at the lead guard or the two guard, the parts are interchangeable anyway. We really don't have a point guard. But it's all about the team. you can't win a championship without the team, anyway. We don't have (any) point guard quarrels or nothing like that. We just go out there and try to play hard and try to make each other better."

Winning a title, particularly with a very talented and deep roster, requires sacrifice. A couple years ago, the Dodgers had a mix of veterans and young players that turned toxic as individual interests and egos began to clash. The Lakers aren't in an identical situation, most importantly because they have a different class of veteran in the locker room, but it's fair to say that in sports the motivation to do the right thing can sometimes get muddied when it conflicts with individual ambition and the payoffs that come with it. We saw how it can play out last year, when Lamar Odom initially balked at the notion of coming off the bench. He came around, and instead of a problem the Lakers were left with incredible strength and depth in the rotation and plenty of team harmony to boot as Odom's sacrifice, as it were, became a symbol in the locker room of what championship teams do for each other.

I expect similar things from the three headed monster. Fisher makes a living at this sort of thing. His value to the Lakers and around the league is as much seen in this sort of leadership as it is in on-court numbers. Brown is a hard-working, tough player, no doubt working to establish his place in the league but still humble, coachable, and unlikely to rock the boat.

Farmar has the most potential to mess with team chemistry, and at this time last year I'd have been more worried. Certainly he's displayed an... um... call it healthy confidence in his ability, chafing periodically at what he's seen as too limited a role, but I was genuinely impressed with the attitude he showed down the stretch, through the playoffs, and heading into last offseason. It seemed to indicate a growing level of maturity, and an understanding that the best way to get what he wants is to shut up, work hard, and play well. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, while wondering what'll happen if his PT shrinks precipitously. I still have some reservations. (My guess is he'd be shipped out if he fell from the rotation.)

It helps as well that the Lakers don't rely on traditional point guard play, and that Brown can play the two as well (perhaps stepping on Sasha Vujacic's minutes, but that's another issue). Phil Jackson has oodles of practice in keeping a lid on this sort of thing, and it's not exactly like Kobe Bryant is tolerant of shenanigans. Most importantly, on a winning team, players don't generally make waves since success on the floor is the best antidote for dissension. This team is built to win.

But just like the questions of fourth quarter playing time, it's an interesting dynamic likely get plenty of attention over the course of the season. Ultimately, there are only 48 minutes in a game, and all three are likely to have times when the minutes aren't doled out in their ideal way during key years in their respective careers. On a different team, it could be a problem. Here, I'd be surprised.

UPDATE (12:36 pm): Contained in this story are some good quotes on the subject from Farmar.

BK

(Photo: Getty Images)

 
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Good morning, Phred!

just saw that you've been trying to get my attention re: fantasy bball league

i returned to the blog late so i had no clue a league was already started. but if you have space, then i'll close the new one down and tell me on how i can join yours. keep it as one big happy family, ya know... but if there's no more space, then i'll keep the new league going.

http://basketball.fantasysports.yahoo.com/league/lakersblog2009
League ID: 203852
password: jerrybuss
14 teams

Very well said BK.

I like the maturity and humility of Shannon. He really understands the gameplan and I believe that he'll keep us believing in his talents and his improvements as well.

Fisher, the savvy veteran and the class-act, total professional man. 'Nuff said.

I really do not want to worry about Farmar, because he got some skills and, like what BK said, showed a lot of maturity as time passed.

Fisher, Farmar, and Brown, the LA Lakers point guards that will help us win the title this season.

Brylle

I just want to know if Fisher work on his lay ups during the summer.


BK,


Excellent post but that was one long paragraph, almost unreadable. You guys need to get the LA Times tech people to fix the formatting. If this had been written by anybody but you or Andy, I would never have bothered. Just one giant slug of type crammed together.


Tom


It will be obvious by 7:00PM tonight but I'm wondering if you (the K Bros.) are planning to have the game-time chats open for pre-season games.

Olf,

We hadn't planned on any pregame chats until the regular season, but we'll obviously give notice if things change on a game to game basis.

AK

I'm rooting for Farmar to take hold of the starting position by midseason. He's got the game and the athletic ability to start for us as long as he plays within himself. Also, in my opinion, his best game of the season was when he started in place of a suspended Fish against Houston.

Assuming an overall improvement from Brown (although likely a drop off in shooting percentage) and approximately the same level of play from Fisher, Farmar has no real choice but to have a good attitude. Brown (and also Vujacic, if he gets back to his form from 2007-8) give PJ other options to the "backup PG" position.

I mentioned this before, that like our SF position before we traded Vlad, the point is going to be a Swiss Army knife position (I prefer Leatherman tools, but whatever). Pick the person to best matchup or best mismatch a particular oppponent.

Our Celtics fans here like to point out that Rondo is better than Fish, Jordan, or Shannon. While I don't dispute that, I don't see Phil being traditional against them. I remember Fish played Ray Allen most of the time, and Kobe was given the opportunity to check Rondo.

On the other hand, against the Jazz, Jordan and Fish get schooled by Deron Williams. However, Shannon Brown, who is just as athletic (if not more) and has a bigger body to contend with screens or an occasional perimeter switch was able to stifle D-Wills game or confuse him enough for the Lakers to get an edge.

Or in the case of Jordan, often he is used against smaller, quick point guards (although he's not as successful at bodying up and getting through screens as the other 2).

In any case though, everyone on the team guards a good opposing point guard, so let's not get ahead of ourselves with the importance of this position in the triagle. On offense, it calls for initiating the offense, timely shooting, the ability to manage the transistion from offense to defense or vice-versa. This sort of dilemma at point isn't necessarily who is the best player, but who is the best player to mesh with the team against a particular opposing line up. To have 3 choices (and techically a fourth on defense in Kobe Bryant), is alot more than other teams can say, where the drop off can be immense.

hey does anyone know if NBA league pass offers preseason games for Comcast? Please post a link where I can see the game. Thanks!

Having Shannon around makes me worry about Farmar a little bit less; Shannon is there to take over if Farmar either doesn't step up, or resumes his attitude problems. I just love Shannon's attitude and I can't wait to see how he evolves and grows actually having a full year, including training camp, to really learn the Laker's system.

Based on what happened in practice the other day, it sounds like there is an attitude problem somewhere on the team that Kobe has an issue with ... given his scrim team was Gasol/Fish/Odom/Artest that removes those guys from the list, and Shannon was the one who mentioned it to the press so I'm thinking he's not the guy either ...

Do you think we will see much of Ammo this year? As much as I really do want Sasha to return to his stellar form of 2 years ago, having some backup sharpshooters would be really fantastic.

Who taught Farmar how to shoot Free-Throws...Stevie Wonder?!?

Rookie Year : 71.1%
Second Year : 67.9%
Third Year : 58.4%

Fourth Year : At this rate, he`ll be lucky to crack 40%!

Nice post BK but 3 headed monster I don't think. maybe 3 headed monsters inc.

It will be very interesting to see who phil takes off the bench first tonight shannon or farmar

Oh oh based on dfishs comments he's not sure this is his last season?? Not good news.

AK, BK,
Is there any possibility for us to embed the URLS in the text as you do? I think it would benefit the reading, as well as put some color in our monochrome blog.

OK. Thanks for the info.

WHERE IS OUR ROLL CALL????


WHERE IS OUR GAME DAY PRAYER????


There's some slacking going on here in Laker Nation. I'm not going to mention names or anything, but YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE.

Speaking of lawfirms, but not the Lakers, the greatest actual Lawfirm name ever is Low, Ball & Lynch:

http://lowballandlynch.com/

Low,Ball & Lynch????


ROTFLMAO!!!!


If I ever need a lawyer, I will definitely call these guys! I'd rather have them on MY side LOL!

Greatest "Law Firm" ever:

"Dewey, Cheetum and Howe."

God, I miss the Stooges!!!

From Kevin Ding's article:

"The stim unit was there because Bynum’s back got bruised during practice Monday when Luke Walton plowed into him. Seriously, yet another collision with a teammate."

Walton is hurting our team, bafore we play any real game!!

If Shannon can play SG, then Fisher can also be one being a consistent perimeter shooter in his Laker career. I don't see the problem at the start of the season but more at the end of the season. It will be based on how much can the Laker F/O afford to retain Farmar before the end of his rookie contract. Whatever his asking future salary, it'll hit for double due to luxury max. Shannon will stay if he thinks there is a room for him to become a PG in the future. Fisher is willing to be a sub PG in the future as long his present pay stays. So folks, the problem here is all about money how much will the Lakers are willing to dole out for three PGs. If and only if an opportunity arise, the T'wolves would like to trade on Ricky Rubio's rights, I'm willing to trade the three for one player, it's a gamble but a good hindsight I consider RR a dynasty & dynamic player who can be Kobe of the future. If you tell Ricky that he can be a Laker in 2010 and will be playing side by side with Pau and Kobe, he will violate his current contract with his Euro team.

Shannon Brown is going to posterize some fools this season. I'm really looking forward to a Sportscenter highlight of Brown dunking on a befuddled KG. They'll play it over and over in slow motion, from different angles, and it will be a thing of beauty. Poetry in motion. Good triumphing over evil.

Let the games begin.

Go Lake Show!

I love Brown's humility. He knows that he's going to have to prove himself, he's grateful to be with the Lakers (I mean, seriously - he could be stuck in Charlotte) and is a hard worker. Not that Farmar isn't, but we certainly don't see the humility there. Although he did show improvement last season.

As I think about our team I am realizing anew how seriously loaded we are. I hope we work our butts off and keep our noses to the grindstone, not willing to settle on our championship britches. I think we Kobe and Fish that's not bound to happen.

GO LAKERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I LOVE LA!

Good Morning Charles....Good Morning Everyone....

game day--Huzah indeed !!!

this team is indeed deep, with Swiss Army Knife options (as they say) at almost every position and in a plethora of combinations...it's almost mind bogglin' how Mitch has built this team up from just a few years ago...

this team is indeed built to win, indeed, yay, built to be a Dynasty...

and so it continues tonight...

with so many weapons and options I don't have too many worries (other than injury trepidations), but I do have a lot of confidence in our quest to repeat and this team's ability to overcome any controversies (which I don't see as being significant at all this year) or adversities...

this is going to be another great year (in a series of great years, as it were, seemingly)...hang on for the ride everybody

" you better free your mind instead"

"I want to start a war for peace"

as I always have a tendency to spout (come on everybody join in):

AS ALWAYS, AS EVER, YET ANOTHER GREAT DAY (AND CHAMPIONSHIP SEASON) TO BE A LAKER FAN !!!

GO LAKERS !!!

I am a big fan of Jordan Farmar but I think he needs to be traded for his own benefit. I think he is a skilled PG but does not fit in PJ's system and would work better in a different system maybe Nelly or D'antoni or something. Farmar has always been great in the community and helped the Bruins compete at very high level. but I would put him in trade package with Adam Morrison who needs more PT due to the contract year and he has shown hard work and recovery in the off season.It would be best for them both.

For those living in SoCal, we have a huge problem which game we are going to watch tonight. As the NBA preseason dawns with the Lakers, it is the autumn season for Dodgers and Angels. The Dodger first playoff game against the Cardinals will coincide with the first Laker preseason game. Recording one and watching the other live may delay the thrill of knowing the results and could miss the inevitable moments like the Gibson homerun. It is like a choice which one will you attend: the 1st birthday party of your child or the golden wedding of your parents?

Shannon Brown is going to posterize some fools this season. I'm really looking forward to a Sportscenter highlight of Brown dunking on a befuddled KG. They'll play it over and over in slow motion, from different angles, and it will be a thing of beauty. Poetry in motion. Good triumphing over evil.

Let the games begin.

Go Lake Show!

Posted by: The Outlaw | October 07, 2009 at 11:00 AM

Outlaw,

If Brown thinks he just gonna waltz in and "posterize" KG ... he better call Brad Miller and ask how it worked out for him.

BTW Miller tried that without KG and Sheed on the court.

Good luck Shannon!

If Brown thinks he just gonna waltz in and "posterize" KG ... he better call Brad Miller and ask how it worked out for him.

BTW Miller tried that without KG and Sheed on the court.

Good luck Shannon!

Posted by: 131-92 | October 07, 2009 at 11:19 AM
No need to talk to Brad Miller, hardly an athletic player. Pau and Kobe have both posterized KG, and left him quiet and befuddled; he can talk to them!

This was KG at his athletic best back then, something he nor Sheed are close to any more.

Shannon can just youtube it if he wants.

What's up Lakerville!
Finally, a game today! It couldn't have come at a better time. I can't wait to see our champions.

Re Fish, he has said before that he would like to play 2 more seasons beyond this one. The main thing that's on his mind is the new collective bargaining agreement between the league and players' union that's coming up. He said he wants to see this through until a new agreement is signed. Also, it doesn't hurt that he's still in top physical shape.

131-92:
Brown's ups vs. Miller's. HAHAHAHAHA!

To add what Outlaw said about a befuddled KG, he could be walking lame after being abused by the Thriller. Paula will run away as fast as he can at the sight of Artest coming after him. haha! Old folks should play only with the Leprechaun league. LOL!

PG Predictions:

- Shannon Brown will be next year's version of Trevor Ariza: Great attitude, good defense, doesn't force shots like Fish and Farmar, lethal in the fast break, is mentally tough, will hit open shots, has good chemistry with Kobe, and will help offset the team's biggest weakness - team speed.

- Farmar will again challenge his BFF, Luke for most shots blocked like a volleyball spike. He will continue to have zero chemistry with Kobe, and chances are, he will have a physical confrontation with his arch-nemesis and fellow ball hog, Sasha at least once. The annual decline in Farmar's FT % means one thing - he is mentally fragile AKA will be let go at the end of the season.

- We all love Fish, but let's be honest. He was a liability on offense and defense for most of last season. He will continue to be stubborn and drive to the hole with his head down and throwing up prayers hoping to get bailed out by a whistle. Fish will get less than 25 minutes a game, which should give him a little juice left in the old tank for a few big shots come playoffs.

JustanotherMambaFan: We are in the midst of a family emergency right now. Don't expect any Game Day Prayers for a while - at least until the season starts.

Edwin -
Fisher - 35
Bryant - 31
Artest - 30
Gasol - 29
Bynum - 22
Avg age 29.4

Rondo - 24
Allen - 34
Pierce - 33
Garnett - 33
Perkins - 24
Avg age - a WHOPPING 29.6
Care to revise your "old folks" comment??

Farmar should consider himself starting-caliber for a championship caliber team when he does the following:
1) Do not pout when you make a mistake and put your head down and slump your shoulders
2) Please stop turning the ball over on simple entry passes to the low post, mid post, and high post
3) Learn to shoot free throws. Practice those rather than trying to be an actor on Numb3rs. Your percentage is atrocious
4) Play adequate defense.

Lotta good comments regarding the three point guards. In the perfect world without financial and ego considerations - the Lakers could use a platoon system in order to match up with the point guard of the day over the long term. That would be great and I hope this works for this season, but I don't think that is a feasible long term (beyond this year) solution..

I expect that Fish will become a leader off the bench in time ( a season or two down the road) and either Brown or Farmar or a player to be named later will become the pt. guard of the future.

I have been an advocate of Brown because I liked what I saw last year - especially on the defensive side of the ball and that he is a good match match for the triangle.

Farmar has other strengths that Shannon does not possess and in the right situation might be a better point guard. My reservations with Farmar are the same positives I see in Brown. I see Farmar more comfortable in a traditional point guard role and less so in the triangle and I have not seen a strong defensive presence from Farmar.

I am also interested in whom will get the nod (yours to lose) coming off the bench from the beginning. My hope is the guards can co-exist, but what I suspect is that Brown eventually pushes Farmar for more and more of the minutes and the Lakers eventually will need to trade Farmar. In fairness to Farmar, he is above a third string player and like Turiaf, should not be buried at the end of the bench.

On the other hand, Farmar also has great athletic ability, a strong work ethic, and great confidence. I wouldn't be surprised if he emerges and proves me wrong. His injury last year most likely caused some of the play that caused him to lose favor in my eyes.

Either way - can't wait for tonight!

Laker Tom - when were you thinking about a Bay Area Laker fan gathering?

DKWSFO

Game #4

Speaking of youtube ... I bet you can go there an watch KG dunkn on Pau in the Finals. If you cant find it Ill let you know where you can buy the poster.

jy-

Brown's ups vs. Miller's. HAHAHAHAHA!

Posted by: jy | October 07, 2009 at 11:53 AM

The higher the ups ... the longer the fall!

Eddie-

To add what Outlaw said about a befuddled KG, he could be walking lame after being abused by the Thriller. Paula will run away as fast as he can at the sight of Artest coming after him. haha! Old folks should play only with the Leprechaun league. LOL!

Posted by: Edwin Gueco | October 07, 2009 at 11:55 AM

You mean Paula "might" run like Kobe "RAN" in the playoffs last year?

Laker fan-

Sounds like Dribble Dribble will spend most of the season suspended from having to fight everybody to protect the rest of his SOFT teammates!

Im sure Kobe will help him out and get involved if it has something to do with the other teams point guard.

The Outlaw ,

Brown will Posterize KG? LOL!

Google the following words : "Garnett dunks on Gasol", then enjoy the video.
{4th quarter of Game 1...`08 Finals...put-back dunk on Posey`s missed 3-pointer}

Pau still hasn`t opened his eyes up yet from that all-time classic "facial"!
====================================

Stillhavethoseballoons,

Pierce is not 33 {he`ll turn 32 next week}.



DKWSFO,


>>> Laker Tom - when were you thinking about a Bay Area Laker fan gathering?


I am pretty flexible. It might be fun to do it for the opener against the Clippers. The Ring Ceremony would give us more purple and gold to cheer and scream about. And with a 7:30p start on Tuesday, traffic should not be a problem. I live in Mill Valley and work in San Rafael. What about you?
-
Any other NorCal Lakers Bloggers interested in getting a group together to watch a few Lakers games at a central sports bar? Let us know. Thanks.
-
It’s really a shame we can’t combine Derek, Jordan, and Shannon into one player with Derek’s clutch, smarts, and leadership, Jordan’s ball handling, passing, and court vision; and Shannon’s athleticism, size, and defensive abilities. That would be one hell-0f-a-player. In the meantime, I think platooning the three will enable us to have some pretty effective matchups. I like that Jordan added some upper body muscle and am looking forward to seeing how he plays. One good sign in his favor is that Phil clearly repeated that this team likes to run and will play an up tempo style of basketball despite their great size in the front court. That will work to Jordan’s advantage.
-
Hope you saw the quotes I pulled from Kevin Ding’s great article on Bynum. Basically, it sounds like Drew was also focused on getting back that great explosiveness and hops that he had two years ago. AK or BK also mentioned that Drew finally has some balance between his two legs after working out on his lower body during the summer. It sounds from Ding’s article that Drew is once again showing that explosiveness that led to all the Beast comparisons. Wish I could see the game somewhere. I may have to stay at the office late so that I can take advantage of T-1 speed rather than the slow broadband connection on my home laptop. Interested also to hear Ammo has been shooting great.


T0m



LakerTom’s Trivecta…


1) Michael Crabtree signs contract with my 3-1 (and almost 4-0) San Francisco 49ers.
2) CC throws a 1-hitter and the New York Yankees give the Twins their 8th straight loss.
3) Lakers appear to almost be in mid-season form as they crush the hapless Warriors.


Tom


You mean Paula "might" run like Kobe "RAN" in the playoffs last year? - 131

~~Actually, both ran or cry for help and fake another injury to be carried out of the court like a broken Cleopatra jilted by two lovers. In the case of your Paula, it is more of fear of his limbs being broken by Artest. Old folks have brittle bones and usually slow in getting back from rehab. If the Celtics will last 82 games without any injuries, you can consider that a good season. Btw, I saw the preseason game last night between Bulls vs. Jazz, boy Bulls are young and ferocious like the real bulls in Pamplona, Spain. i doubt if the Celtics geriatric group can beat them in a 7 game series.


Brown's got a physical skill set that would be beastly if he could wire it to Fish's brain.

Doesn't IPhone have an App for that?

On basketball but unrelated to law firm names:

PJ is workign with Sasha to become more of a PG as well. I thought that was odd with the current 3 man mash up, but my coworker pointed out that if we rest Kobe more this season, there will be more cause to have 2 of these guys on the court at the same time. That makes some sense to me, especially in the triangle.

Each player has their specialties and will be played accordingly. PJ like Shan-WOW guarding larger guards, while maybe Farmar can get it together better against quicker guards. Meanwhile Fisher's time will diminish to save him for the postseason.

Speaking of which, Fisher doesn't have to worry about landing a gig next year. He's in the Horry zone. Any team in the league would be happy to pay him just to mentor their young guys and provide some clutch shooting, even if they rest him most of the season. He's just trying to prove he belongs on the court for heavier minutes.

Farmar has more to provie, but will still be valuable to someone looking for a backup guard who's been around a champion (see Lue, Tyronne). He wants to provie he's a starter though, and unless he makes a huge leap in consistent production, that's more a noble goal than a likely result.

Stillhavethosebaloons,

What counts most is 30, 31 and29 vs 34,33 and 33. I did not include your new superstar at 35 and our aspiring all star at 22 years old. What is good about this year in the Lakerland our new recruit 31 years old super collider could BANG any of your superstars. With modesty aside, I doubt if you can beat the Cavaliers, Magic and also the Bulls. Old soldiers never they just fade away.

It feels like the time when Van Exel was starting and Fisher was coming off the bench. WE all know what happened Fisher stayed because of his patience, humbleness and hardwork he was rewarded by the Lakers organization.

Is it fair to say and compare, Jordan Farmar is like Nick Van Exel, quick point guard with lots of confidence. While Shannon Brown is more like Derek Fisher, patient, humble and hard working.

Who would ever thought Derek Fisher will win 4 rings as starting Point Guard for the Lakers at the time VAN Exel was a young dazzling all-star point guard.

Character means a lot in this league as well. They last longer than talent and skills and they build success in an organization.

stillhavethoseballoons?

I dont think Artest is 30 yet?? I haven't checked so maybe I am wrong but I believe RonRon is younger than L.O. even, and he hasnt reached 30 yet. I think Ron is 28 or 29 but def not 30 yet..

JD Hastings,
They still don't know who the "backup PG of the future" is going to be, let alone who the "PG of the future" will be. All three of the current point guards are in their contract year, and Sasha isn't. Sasha's defense is certainly good enough for a backup, and if he gets his three point shot back, he could be a decent backup PG with this offense. I suspect that they will not re-sign all three of Brown, Farmar, and Fisher, so it makes sense to see what Sasha is capable of.

Thriller + Contract Year + Kobe Bryant + Insanity of Laker Nation = Zero Complacency

What do we play for? RINGS!!!

Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.

GO LAKERS!!!!

BK,

I enjoyed your analysis.

Though I'm KIND OF putting words in your mouth, I'm reading between the lines: I agree with your connotation that Farmar has the biggest potential to be toxic to the chemistry of this team. He has, quite frankly, shown a consistent immaturity as expressed through sometimes mildly offensive cockiness that comes across as an overcompensation for something. The kid has talent. No doubt. Plenty of it. But if that talent isn't tempered with a bit of humility and a true desire to win, then he could become a toxic asset for the Lakers.

I hope that's not the case, but if any players have the 'Sword of Damocles' (to use your metaphor) hanging over their heads this season, it's Farmar and Vujacic. These two players are the most vulnerable to be traded--Vujacic if Morrison pans out because he's no longer really needed. Morrison could be traded if he does not pan out, but only at the end of the season to a team on the downturn that is looking to take advantage of his expiring contract next season.

Personally, I'd like to see all of them succeed, but like James Worthy said in a recent interview, winning back-to-back, the second ring is harder to get than the first. Everyone needs to stay focused and we can't be having any divas throwing hissy fits in the locker room or moaping on the end of the bench because their not getting enough minutes.

As a fan, I have zero tolerance for that crap. Either play/live to win or you can play for some other crappy ass team.

What do we play for? RINGS!!!!

Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.

GO LAKERS!!!

Open letter to all C’s fans here,

Do you even realize how insecure, how fragile you are to shows up here again and again, and argue, ABOUT WHAT???? We're the champions, and until it's proven otherwise, I mean finals next year, JUST SHUT UP and GO AWAY!!! Spend time on C’s Forum contemplating KG health, Rondos’ off-season comments, Allen’s age, Paula’s wheelchair shtick, etc. WE DON’T CARE!!! Do you see any of the Lakers fans on your forum? Never, and you know why? Because we really don’t care what is going in Leprechaun Land. You want to argue? Watch first Lakers game when they’ll be given RINGS and argue with it, if you mentally sick… We DON’T CARE….

kt,

I share your enthusiasm for Shannon Brown. Great attitude, great work ethic, and freakish athleticism. All he needs is great coaching. Oh wait. We have the best coach in sports!

I think it is reasonable to be optimistic about Shannon Brown's development.

What do we play for? RINGS!!!

Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.

GO LAKERS!!!!

stillhavethoseballoons?

I dont think Artest is 30 yet?? I haven't checked so maybe I am wrong but I believe RonRon is younger than L.O. even, and he hasnt reached 30 yet. I think Ron is 28 or 29 but def not 30 yet..

Posted by: lakersrydeordie | October 07, 2009 at 01:26 PM

After listening to his interviews ... Id say about 13 or 14.

Eddie-

Thanks for scouting the Bulls for us but I dont know if you know this but we beat them last year without KG, Sheed and Daniels. Did the Bulls lose Gordon?

If they are as good as you seem to think they are after watching the all important first game of preseason ... they will be a top seed which means we wont play them until at least the 2nd round. Which also means we wont be playing either Orlando or Cleveland until the 3rd round. Laker fan acts like the Celtics will have to beat every team that makes the playoffs in the East. Its 3 rounds not 7 rounds.

BTW if I was you ... I wouldnt put too much stock into what you see in preseason games.

Staples 24,

I agree with your post about Fisher and the value of character.

The idea of Fisher not being on the squad next year is just crazy to me.

What do we play for? RINGS!!!

Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.

GO LAKERS!!!!

since jordan changed his number to one. than farmar, fisher, and brown should be referred to as the 1-2 1-2 punch.

I see some old familiar faces around here. Can't wait for this game. Here's my pre game link. The Laker game is on the docket for online fans.


http://www.channelsurfing.net/


Wes

LAL_Fan
The reason I come here is because Boston.com is LOADED with lakers fans. They come to gloat, and tease and instigate. See, I know you guys won, you were clearly the better team last year, just like we were in 2008. But both those years are history, and now it's time for the 2010 season. I hope it's Celtics and Lakers in the Finals, there is nothing like it in all of sports. But some of the comments on here are laughable.

And just for the record - Roanld William Artest Jr. was born in Queens on 11/13/79, which means he will be 30 next month!

Open letter to all C’s fans here,

Do you even realize how insecure, how fragile you are to shows up here again and again, and argue, ABOUT WHAT???? We're the champions, and until it's proven otherwise, I mean finals next year, JUST SHUT UP and GO AWAY!!! Spend time on C’s Forum contemplating KG health, Rondos’ off-season comments, Allen’s age, Paula’s wheelchair shtick, etc. WE DON’T CARE!!! Do you see any of the Lakers fans on your forum? Never, and you know why? Because we really don’t care what is going in Leprechaun Land. You want to argue? Watch first Lakers game when they’ll be given RINGS and argue with it, if you mentally sick… We DON’T CARE….


Posted by: LAL_Fan | October 07, 2009 at 01:45 PM

Open reply to only LAL_Fan,

For a someone who doesnt care ... you sure do know a lot of whats going "in Leprechaun Land."

You are right ... I dont see any Laker fans on our forum but I do read their posts.

BTW if you dont visit our forums ... then how do you know that Laker fan doesnt go on them?

Stillhave,


You're welcome here. Just make good arguments instead of hit and run taunts. I'm not that I'm saying you do, just that so many other people do. But I like reading what fans of other cities have to say.


Wes

131-92, youtubed it. After watching KG's dunk on Pau, I wasn't impressed he would have sound advice for Shannon. From an athletic standpoint (which is why we discussed it originally unless you intent was malicious), Kobe's and Pau's dunks were much more impressive. A reverse dunk from Kobe and a very mobile PF dunking ON KG?

Your honest basketball opinion, what power forwards could go at each other like that? One can defend on the perimeter with a quickness of a guard, the other can dribble and drive like a guard. You think Tim has that kind of quickness? Dirk is a tall 3 IMO and isn't quite as deft in and around the baseline.

You can't tell me you didn't enjoy the Pau dunk before KG became a Celtic or the Kobe one before the Lakers rose to prominence and gave you a reason to hate them again. Take off your green glasses....those were pretty good dunks, Kobe's was great.

....and since you're offering, make sure you buy me a poster only if comes from the Finals 2009. 2008 doesn't matter anymore and this isn't a just a laker fan saying it. The defending champs didn't defend their championship. Its that simple. Maybe I'd be singing a different tune if KG didn't run at redline rpm from the beginning of the season to midseason (I said this before, go look it up). You CAN'T play 82 playoff games before the playoffs. The road to a championship, especially a repeat, takes an entire season.

So sure, we're both being petty with each other, but I'm gonna take a cue from my boy Mamba24 and engage you a bit if you'd like. Sure peeps here are Laker-centric, Laker biased, and you're pretty petty if you came in here trying to swim against that. To paraphrase the current president, its okay to disagree, but why be disagreeable?

Alas, if you'd like to serve as some kind of Celtic counterpoint, that's totally fine. I used to go to celtics blogs back in the early 2000s and Celtic fans respected the Lakers for making it back, especially since they saw no path back to Celtic glory at the time. And no, I didn't go there to gloat, but because I knew the Celtics and Lakers fans had better historical perspective than the MANY so-called rivals the Lakers had in 98 to 05.

Anyways, since Mamba24 has accepted you, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt for now.

#4

LAL_Fan
The reason I come here is because Boston.com is LOADED with lakers fans. They come to gloat, and tease and instigate. See, I know you guys won, you were clearly the better team last year, just like we were in 2008. But both those years are history, and now it's time for the 2010 season. I hope it's Celtics and Lakers in the Finals, there is nothing like it in all of sports. But some of the comments on here are laughable.

And just for the record - Roanld William Artest Jr. was born in Queens on 11/13/79, which means he will be 30 next month!

Posted by: stillhavethoseballoons? | October 07, 2009 at 02:24 PM

Every team has their idiots, why should you be the Celtic idiot on a Laker site?

The 2010 season is upon us, but the defending champs are just that...defending their championship until they are eliminated from the playoffs. Last year, the Lakers won that championship, one that the Celts could not defend. The Lakers beat the team that beat the Celtics.

So 2010, yes its a new year, but the Lakers are the defending champs. Gloating and bragging rights are inherent within that title...but personally, I'm above gloating on another site. That comes down to the individual, not all the bloggers here.

I was going to apologize for being off topic, but after sifting through the comments I guess I'll be part of the majority.

Just had to mention I had an awesome day yesterday! I work for "After School All Stars," an after school program in East L.A. in which Kobe is our main supporter. To kick off the release of "NBA 2K10" Kobe held a video game tournament yesterday for ten of our best behaved students. I was lucky enough to be one of the staff memebers that got to attend and I was also able to bring along my 12 year old nephew.


I got to meet Kobe, DFish, Sasha and two Clips- Kaman and Gordon. Though I wasn't too interested in getting to meet Kaman and Gordon, they're both really nice guys and Kaman is a lot bigger than I thought he was. Sasha was a quiet dude, didn't say much. Fisher came off exactly as I imagined he would, very genuine and extremely nice. I didn't get to interact with Kobe much, but he was still very cool and laid back. Dude's got huge hands, too!


The best part of the day was for my nephew. When the final two teams were playing, everybody was gathered around the T.V. set and my nephew and I were in the back. I was able to see but since he's only about 5' he was having a little trouble seeing. Kobe took notice and asked him if he could see. Of course my nephew said no and Kobe then proceeded to personally walk him to the front of everyone and stood there with him. Needless to say, my nephew was pretty jazzed that that happened.


At the end of the day Kobe donated a $25k check to the program and each kid received a brand new NBA2K10 video game. It was a really cool day for all the kids and you could tell they were all star struck. Heck, I can't deny that I wasn't a little myself. It's not every day you get to meet one of your favorite athletes ever and spend some time with them. Man, what a day!

as long as i can remember Fish being on the team, people have been saying that he's too slow to play defense against the quick pgs in the league and that he can't hit a layup and that he needs to be replaced. the funny thing is that he's been to the finals more times that any other pg in the league during that time, and he's played a pivotal role more often than not.

as to Celtic trolls-
while they're annoying, i take pride in knowing that the Lakers are the team that they dread the most, whether or not they admit it.

LaL_Fan,

Loved the rant. True that.

What do we play for? RINGS!!!

Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.

GO LAKERS!!!

Laker Tom - how are you watching the game tonight? I signed up last year for the computer version of League Pass and it never worked - I could get other games, but for some reason the Laker games where never showing - rendering the product essentially useless for me. I tried to connect League Pass on TV and that isn't available until the end of the month. I'd love to watch these exhibition games, just to see how Andrew is moving and rebounding and the point guard battle along with the last remaining roster spot(s) competition.

The Clipper game might be a good one - if you get responses, let me know where everyone prefers to meet.

I did see some of your stuff on Andrew and it touches on what we've been discussing. Be great to see him controlling the backboards and the lane. That's all we need for now.

I'm guessing that S. Brown wouldn't be a slouch in the transition/running game either. Still believe he has the edge over Farmar - although Farmar may get the early minutes. In the back of my mind, I wonder if one of three could get showcased early season, then traded for future considerations. Finding out is part of the fun!!

Yes, combining the 3 pt guards would be awesome - but would then be out of our current price range.

Any other insights out there on how to view tonight's game?

DKWSFO

The Outlaw ,

Brown will Posterize KG? LOL!

Google the following words : "Garnett dunks on Gasol", then enjoy the video.
{4th quarter of Game 1...`08 Finals...put-back dunk on Posey`s missed 3-pointer}

Pau still hasn`t opened his eyes up yet from that all-time classic "facial"!
====================================

Stillhavethoseballoons,

Pierce is not 33 {he`ll turn 32 next week}.

Posted by: RED`S LOVE CHILD | October 07, 2009 at 12:33 PM

===============================================
Red's bastard child

Watch the Pau dunk on creaky knees and see the pre injury to Garnett's injury. He still hasn't recovered.

http://tinyurl.com/yctn6nz

Edwin -
Fisher - 35
Bryant - 31
Artest - 30
Gasol - 29
Bynum - 22
Avg age 29.4

Rondo - 24
Allen - 34
Pierce - 33
Garnett - 33
Perkins - 24
Avg age - a WHOPPING 29.6
Care to revise your "old folks" comment??

Posted by: stillhavethoseballoons? | October 07, 2009 at 12:06 PM

===================================
Now factor in LO and rest of Laker team ages against Wallace, House and rest of Ceptics team and then talk about age.

#4

Thanks for the vine. I appreciate Mamba24 accepting me. I try not to be disrespectful unless Im disrespected first. Like I posted before I dont like Celtic blogs cuz most post are about how great the Celtics are and even though I agree somewhat, I dont think they are without flaws. Plus I get some good info regarding the Lakers in here and if you are a fan of the game you want to know about other teams not just your own. Besides all my friends are Laker fans so I need to keep up to date with the Lakers. I probably watch at least 75 of the Laker reg season games. (Not cuz I enjoy them but to root against them of course) And all Celtic games.

Im not sure what dunks you are talking about but I doubt if KG was the first guy Kobe dunked on or is he gonna be that last. Kobe is the best in the NBA even thought I think LeBron is more dominant ... if that makes any sense. I think as Kobe gets older he will drive less and less and settle for jumpers. LeBron is like a running back trying to get to the goal line. I respect Kobe's game. (other then some of his cheap shots he takes at little guys) I dont remember Pau's dunk either but he is a very good 7 footer so there is no reason why we couldnt dunk on KG. I think every player that has ever played in the NBA has been dunked on. I just think KGs was probably better cuz he is a Celtic and it was during the Finals. Im sure even Russell got dunked on by Wilt. I remember Nique dunking on Larry and while Nique celebrated ... Larry would go down and hit a 3. But I understand what getting dunked on represents.

Like I posted before ... I think the Lakers have been the better franchise for the last 30yrs without a doubt. The Celtics have had bad owners, bad GMs, bad coaches, bad draft picks, bad trades and some bad luck.(Bias,Lewis,losing out on Duncan even though they had the most lotto balls) Some have been their own doing and others they have had no control over. But I still think that the team with the most titles should be considered overall the best team.(Except for Princeton)

I have been very careful not to use the KG injury as an excuse cuz its the NBA and all that matters is winning. But I doubt if Kobe, Lebron or Howard woulda got hurt that their team woulda made it to the Finals. But no excuses ... the Lakers won! All we ask is that you take care of our trophy that we lent you for the year cuz we plan on taking it back with interest!

BTW I didnt offer to buy you the poster ... I offered to tell you where you can go to buy one yourself.

Well gotta go ... the Celtic pregame show is about to get underway and I cant miss it.(Even if I have it set to record on my DVR)

GO C'S!

Hello fellow Laker fans! I've been a long time reader (since the rookie year of the blog) and have posted over the years but only once or twice. With school, work, and all the other goings on of everyday life, I just didn't have time to read AND write. I can manage now and hope to contribute to what has become an extraordinary Laker fan community! AK/BK, you guys run the best blog I've come across, keep up the great work.

Shout out to all the originals that were here from Day 1. Reading everyone's posts over the years, from Jon K., LakerTom, Edwin, CBuck, Xodous, the Lamar Show, lakofan, Andrew Z and SO many more, makes it seem like I've known individuals, to a certain extent, for years. Glad to see so many of you still hang around and provide terrific insight, comedy and perspective to all things Purple & Gold. Special shout out to Mike T. whom I always wanted to respond to but knew if I did, the post would run rather long, think novel size, so I never did (damn you education!). MAMBA24, may I please have the honor of being added to the Roll Call? Your enthusiasm is one of a kind, seriously; I can remember some bad days I may have had and seeing some of your eccentric (in a very good way) posts brightened up my day. Kudos, my friend, keep em' coming.

LakerTom -

I live in San Francisco and would love a get together of Bay Area Laker fans. Let's make it happen.

Lo and behold, Pau dunked in KG's face in 2008 finals. They both went straight up.

I think KG's louder (as he's always been) but Pau hasn't been intimidated by him.

Just sayin....

http://tinyurl.com/yabp56m

If you watch the tapes from last years Finals, Shannon Brown stood up after every basket the Lakers scored. He was the only one to do it. Brown has the right attitude. Give Brown more playing time.

I really really like this guy Shannon Brown. He seems to be the point guard that we all want to replace Fisher once his skills decline. I love Jordan Farmar, but he comes across as boastful, I am sure if it has to do with confidence, but it sure doesn't come out right. Shannon is my guy.

Well, PJ showed in tonight's preseason his answer to the PG conundrum - just play Shannon and Jordan together in the backcourt. Worked quite well too.

lol green only means my irish descendency, thats all, but if 131-92 wants to keep calling out the last score of the finals in 08, damn thats sad. cause other than that what does he/she have? maybe only insecurity. but if my lakers lost to u guys in 08, and they were weak, why then they made it back on 08 and you guys didn't when the self crowned queen paula didn't? yeah keep talking, sucks when people talk out of their; well u know.

Justa -
I did -
Lester Hudson - 25
Eddie House - 30
Marquis Daniels - 26
Glenn Davis - 24
Rasheed Wallace - 35
avg age 28.0

Shannon Brown - 25
Jordan Farmar - 23
Luke "sky" Walton - 28
Shasa Vujacic (sp?) - 25
Lamar Khardasian - 30
avg age - 26.2

Your point?

I would have to say that this is definitley a good problem to have. But, I believe that in the end Farmar's playing style is not built for this team. However, playing with a lineup that includes vujacic, odom, artest,and pau I can see them being a run and gun team. But with Kobe going up in years and a true center in Bynum beginning to brace for his prime years...I don't see Farmar's uptempo style being what this team needs at the 1, especially in the triangle. Shannon Brown appears to be a player that is more deliberate and also provides that one-a-game electric play. I see Farmar getting traded by February, perhaps along with Luke for a draft pick and maybe another veteran.


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