Charley Rosen on the triangle offense
The mechanics of the triangle offense can for some be tough to understand (this, by the way, includes some players who attempt to execute it).
If you're looking for a good tutorial, Charley Rosen of Fox Sports.com has a great breakdown near the bottom of this mailbag. Here's how he defines the central premise of the system:
"The Triangle is based on the undeniable premise that no matter which player has the ball, it's impossible for opponents to play deny-defense on the other four offensive players without permitting various backdoor cuts, lob passes and easy scores. In fact, if the wings are indeed denied, the Triangle's automatic procedure is to have the center move up to the foul line and receive the ball there — which opens up help-free cutting lanes for the wings and gives the center easy targets."
From there, it's a nice breakdown of the cause/effect action each pass and cut causes within the offense. Read today, watch for it tonight.
BK
BK,
I have always liked and respected Charley Rosen despite his obvious biases for and against certain players and coaches. I try to look past his curmudgeon-like demeanor to his incisive and perceptive observations about the NBA and pro basketball in general. There were a couple of comments that he made in the article you linked that I thought were especially pertinent to the Lakers situation:
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First, during his analysis comparing Yao Ming and Dwight Howard as centers, Charley made the following point about Dwight’s huge advantage over Yao with respect to transition from defense to offense: “Howard, of course, has a huge advantage in up-and-down speed. Watch how many times a game he motors down court in early offense and establishes prime position in the shadow of the basket before the defense can get coordinated.”
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This is exactly what Andrew Bynum is focused on doing this preseason – emphasizing as Drew calls it in “staying ahead of the ball.” meaning beating the other center down the court every time possession changes and teams switch from offense to defense or vice versa. Bynum Bashers need to realize that Drew’s improved running of the court in transition is a direct result of his analyzing his strengths and weaknesses and then committing his summer efforts towards rectifying the situation.
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Now how many 21-year old (yes, he does not turn 22 until later this month) NBA players without a college education have you seen who can actually intellectualize what needs to be done to get better and then have the work ethic and precision follow through to actually achieve the desire objectives? Drew realized during the playoffs last year that he had to improve his lower body strength and overall conditioning if he wanted to play at a level of a Dwight Howard, which he did during the summer. That’s why Drew is special and why I am so high on him to become the next great Lakers center.
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I predict there will come a time during the next two years when Andrew Bynum will be the young center pundits and fans alike peg as the best young pivot man in the league – not Dwight Howard. Drew will never have the quick-ups that Dwight alone possesses but he will become a sophisticated low post scorer who will dominate at the rim with a variety and quality of moves Howard will never learn. And he will rack up championship rings like no player has since the days of Bill Russell.
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Charley definitely knows his basketball. His explanation of the Triangle Offense was right on. My high school coach was an avid follower of Tex Winters so I actually played point guard in that system in high school. In many ways, it is the original “read and react” defense. It is also the perfect offense for cerebral big men like Andrew Bynum and Pau Gasol with a great mid-range shot, post up moves, and play making abilities. The Lakers will lead the league in dunks off of back door lobs.
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | October 18, 2009 at 12:29 PM
Loved the piece.
One more reason why I used to freak out when the rest of the team used to stop and just watch Kobe play on offense. People used to call Kobe selfish, but what else was he supposed to do when the rest of his teammates stopped running the offense? The Triangle requires constant movement. You can't run the Triangle with everyone standing around watching Kobe dribbling the ball.
What do we play for? RINGS!!!
Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.
GO LAKERS!!!
Posted by: Jon K. | October 18, 2009 at 12:50 PM
LakerTom,
The article also kind of makes me wonder what Mitch Kupchak was thinking when he traded for Kwame Brown. Kwame would/could never be described as a skilled passing center.
What do we play for? RINGS!!!
Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.
GO LAKERS!!!!
Posted by: Jon K. | October 18, 2009 at 12:52 PM
LAKERS, YANKEES, AND NINERS…
Just responding to any troll who thinks I might be a Cowboy fan or some form of winner bandwagon hopper. I grew up as a Chicago Cardinals and then St. Louis Cardinals football fan. After 20+ years of frustration at the horrible Bidwell brothers, I made a decision to switch my NFL loyalty to then home town San Francisco 49ers when the team was bought by Eddie DeBartolo, a man whom I had met and admired through my business several years earlier. I have been a loyal 49er fan ever since.
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As for my Yankees, they will always be my first love even though my greatest loyalty is to the Lakers. Growing up in the Midwest before the TV era, I remember listening to baseball games by transistor radio while laying in bed at night. My first televised baseball game was during the 1951 World Series when Mickey and the Yankees faced Willie and the Giants. Two of the greatest ever both playing in their first World Series. I became a Yankee fan during that series and have never once considered rooting for any other team, even during the dismal days when CBS ran the team into the ground.
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As for the Lakers, I was a Wilt Chamberlain fan and thus first rooted for the San Francisco Warriors, then the Philadelphia 76ers, and then finally and for eternity the Los Angeles Lakers. I have been blessed by personally enjoying all 5 of the Niners NFL championships, 13 of the Yankees 26 World Series wins, and 10 of the Lakers 15 NBA championships. Plus 11 UCLA Basketball championships. That should tell you why I remain so optimistic about the Yankees and the Lakers (Sorry, Niners, but you should have hired an offensive genius in the mold of Walsh instead of a defensive guru).
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | October 18, 2009 at 01:02 PM
Hello blog fam,
Anybody got a link for tonite's game, I'd appreciate it..
Thanks!!
Posted by: lakersrydeordie | October 18, 2009 at 01:10 PM
Tom, et al.,
The most impressive stat on Bynum's prior game was that he had 2 personal fouls. Foul trouble has long been the bane of young Andy B's life. If he has conquered that problem, we may yet have a very good, if not dominant, center.
BTW, I am worried about Ron Ron's lackluster performance. Perhaps AK/BK are not covering pre-season games as they mean nothing. But, I think they do. Does anyone have a reason, we should not judge Ron Ron by these early performances? Is he doing something other than reminding Andy B that foul trouble is a bad thing?
GOOooooOOOO LAKERS!!!
Posted by: JohnnyP | October 18, 2009 at 02:21 PM
Lakersrydeordie,
I've had pretty good luck so far at http://www.atdhe.net/ for the games.
Posted by: 40-year fan | October 18, 2009 at 02:31 PM
KOBE IS BETTER THAN MICHAEL AND STATS WILL PROVE IT!
Many people on this blog have used stats as a way to prove Michael Jordan is better than Kobe Bryant. The biggest mistake in comparing them that way is that you are comparing a man who came in the league at 21 to a kid who came in the league at 18. It is not fair to Kobe at all. Do not count Kobe's career stats when he was 18 and 19 years old and coming off the bench and his stats are almost identical to Michael's stats. I went and did the math.
Kobe career stats(excluding 1996-1998 when he was 18,19)
fg% 46%
ft% 84%
3p% 34%
rebounds per game 5.8
assists per game 5.2
steals per game 1.7
blocks per game 0.6
points per game 27.6
Jordan career stats
fg% 50%
ft% 84%
3p% 33%
rebounds per game 6.2
assists per game 5.3
steals per game 2.4
blocks per game 0.8
points per game 30.1
The only significant difference is field goal percentage. Then you consider that Kobe takes more 3 point shoots than Michael did and that in itself lowers Kobe's field goal percentage some. To me both Kobe's and Michael's stats are pretty much neck and neck.
BUT WHAT MAKES KOBE BETTER THAN MICHAEL
Comments have been made that Kobe takes more difficult shots than Jordan(ie. more jump shots).True! But that is what makes Kobe more dangerous. Kobe can drain a shot from any where on the court. Kobe has more of a variety of shots and is harder to cover than Jordan.A defender has to be in Kobe's face at all times. Other players like Michael Jordan and Lebron James who are primarily deep post players, a defender only has to play them tough in the post area. Because Kobe is a better all around shooter and is harder to cover, Kobe makes his teammates better than Jordan ever could. Notice that Odom's and Gasol's field goal percentages went up when playing with Kobe.
Lamar Odom
2003-2004 Miami fg% .430
2004-2005 Lakers fg% .473
Pau Gasol
2007-2008 Memphis fg% .501
2007-2008 Lakers fg% .589
Jordan did not play in 1993-1994 but both Pippen's and Grant's field goal percentages did not go down when Jordan left but actually went up.
Scottie Pippen
1992-1993 Bulls(with Jordan) fg% .473
1993-1994 Bulls (without Jordan) fg% .491
Horace Grant
1992-1993 Bulls(with Jordan) fg% .508
1993-1994 Bulls(without Jordan) fg% .524
KOBE IS BETTER THAN JORDAN!
Posted by: Guy R. | October 18, 2009 at 03:10 PM
SMALL BALL AND THE 3-POINT SHOT…
There was an excellent article in today’s hard copy of the New York Times on how the 3-point shot has evolved from humble beginnings to a major part of every NBA team’s offensive and defensive strategy. The article by Jonathan Abrams makes a strong case that the trend in the NBA is going to be to shoot even more 3-point shots in the future as teams look to maximize the points scored on each possession. From Dantoni and his shoot-in-7-seconds-or-less offense and the Magic with Dwight and 4 bombers, it is obvious that the 3-point shot has revolutionized the sport of basketball.
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One point that Abrams stressed in his article was how proficient teams were at shooting corner 3’s, with players hitting an average of 39% of those shots the last two years. This is a very important stat that the Lakers coaching staff needs to consider when formulating their overall defensive strategy. I’ve been calling for the Lakers to commit to not allowing any corner 3’s and training their players to stay with their man in the corner at all times rather than leaving him to try and help on cutters. Not only are the shooting percentages highest for corner 3’s but the shorter distance also allows many players who wouldn’t ordinarily take 3’s to become proficient corner 3 shooters ala Bruce Bowen.
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Because of Drew and Pau, the Lakers are the anomaly to the small ball revolution that continues to attract more adherents in this era of the 3-point shot. It is for sure the logical way to attack and defeat teams like the Lakers whose height, length, and muscle advantage in the front court can’t be matched. That is why it makes complete sense for the Lakers to take the corner 3 as a weapon away from their opponents. It would rather leave it to our bigs to block or alter the shot rather than to try futilely to help by leaving opposing players free for a high percentage corner 3. It’s the smart basketball move.
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Finally, Phil envisions these Lakers as a team that plays more straight up man-to-man defense rather than the pseudo-zone help defenses the Lakers deployed at times last year. With Ron Artest aboard, that certainly makes good sense. That strategy also seems to be in line with “outlawing” corner 3’s from being taken. Similarly, a healthy Andrew Bynum gives the Lakers the luxury of leaving it up to Drew to stop penetration in order to prevent high percentage home runs from the corners. JMO.
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | October 18, 2009 at 03:20 PM
LakerTom,
I completely agree with you on Andrew. Whenever I've posted on here, I've stated pretty strongly that when Andrew is healthy and right, he's capable of dominating. As you mentioned, Drew should be commended for working on aspects of his game and physical conditioning during the summer which is why he has been pretty dominant so far in the preseason. At 21, Drew would be just coming out of college, so I expect him to be more mature and ready to reach that next level. Some people on here aren't sold on him, but seem to forget that two major knee injuries that past two years derailed Drew from possibly being an all-star already. When Kobe retires, I expect Drew to be the centerpiece and focal point of the next great Lakers team for years to come. Now that Drew has added a jump shot from up to 17 feet out to his repetoire of post moves makes him even more scary to defend.
While I love the addition of Artest, one thing concerns me. Phil Jackson is constantly saying that Ron needs to more aggressive offensively and that the Lakers need to get him more involved and acclimated to the offense. PJ seems to have some weird infatuation with Ron even before Ron became a Laker. My concern is that PJ will urge Ron to shoot more unfortunately at Bynum's expense in my opinion. My thing is both Pau and Andrew should get more touches simply because they both take high percentage shots with high field goal percentages. Although Ron is a good and versatile offensive player, I'd rather he pick his spots within the offense and focus more on locking down the opposing team's best player. I'm not saying that Ron won't fit in because I believe he will, I just don't want PJ to put Andrew on a shorter leash and pull him for transgressions or mistakes that Ron a seasoned vet continues to make(bad fouls, missed free throws, etc.). I hope that the leaders on this team(Kobe, Fish, LO)will realize that they have another beast in the post besides Pau in Andrew. Feed the Beast!!!
Posted by: Nemaia Faletogo | October 18, 2009 at 03:51 PM
BK/AK,
If the triangle theories are valid, all the Lakers fans talk in this blog about how "great" Jason Kidd would be playing with Kobe was incorrect. The triangle doesn't require a dominate ball handler and requires a shooter than drains open shots -- both misfits with Jason Kidd's game.
Its time for Jordan Farmar to start. Farmar's minute production is much better than D. Fish. Lakers a better team with Farmar in the game. They play faster and are more active on defense. Folks seem to forget that Aaron Brooks ate D. Fish's lunch in the playoffs. It not clear Lakers win Game 4 if D. Fish hadn't been suspended. Farmar busted Brooks in Game for like he did when he was at UCLA.
Folks who don't see Farmar's talent don't know basketball .
Ask Mark Jackson ... He will tell you. Farmar is possibly the best young PG in the league.
Posted by: Todd | October 18, 2009 at 03:53 PM
I know pre-season games don't mean much, but maybe a little concern no consistence outside shooting accept the new and improved machine(with a Tune-Up) D-Fish shot is very erratic, Brown is being exposed, Morrison practice player only , Thriller can't hit anything, as I stated before Jordan is useless. Need outside sniper.
Posted by: Lionel I. Hill | October 18, 2009 at 04:01 PM
Season starts soon; biggest questions marks:
1. Will Lakers get past the second round this year.
2. Will the Celtics win 73 regular season games.
Chances are greater that Celtics will and Lakers won't.
Celts may take the pedal off the metal when they seal home court advantage by March 1 and stop at around 68-70 wins.
Before you idiots blow a gasket remember the Celts won 62 last year with Garnett out the second half of the season, Scalabrine or Davis in the starting lineup and the infamous combo of Marbury and Mikki Moore playing key minutes off the bench. Players 1-12 they are way stronger this year.
Lakers may get a favorable matchup again to help them get past the second round this year like last when Portland was upset and half of the Rockets team had broken feet and legs; if not then Lakers are out in second round.
By the way don't count on Odom shooting .514% from 3 point line in the playoffs again.
Sorry for throwing the cold water on your Laker hot flashes but there is a Big Green Asterisk on 2008-09 title.
Posted by: The Green Asterisk | October 18, 2009 at 04:36 PM
Green As-terisk,
Healthy Bynum, Gasol with another year in the triangle, Artest, Farmar-Vujacic-Walton will not all have off years again, Garnett and Allen are getting older.
"Chances are greater that Celtics will and Lakers won't."
Not so much.
Posted by: exhelodrvr | October 18, 2009 at 05:31 PM
This is the time to get Artest comfortable with the offense. It will be much harder once the season starts. If he can hit from outside, it will make it much harder to double on Bynum, which is when he has the most trouble offensively. Phil is right to be emphasizing Artest more at this point.
Posted by: exhelodrvr | October 18, 2009 at 05:36 PM
The Green Asterisk
You got it mixed up buddy. There is a BIG Purple and Gold Asterisk by the 2007-2008 Celtics championship. We beat the Celtics twice last year when Garnett played both games. You beat us in the championship series when the Lakers were without a healthy Ariza playing significant minutes and a healthy Bynum. Get your facts straight.
Posted by: Tom | October 18, 2009 at 06:08 PM
And you better hope and pray that the Lumber jacks dont have any injuries to their 100 year old bodies...Or your loud mouth point guard does not get thrown under the bus again by your GM....Or Glen Davis does not get traded to a near by beach house for a skinnier beach ball...
The season has not even started and the Ceptics fans have just returned from a summer spent fishing......Your franchise is very close to going missing for another 17 years...Again...Or did you forget those 17 years in the waste lands ....
A little quiet for a while hey?........Gee, you would think they just won 3 in a row or something.....pretty quick to forget the time between drinks....
Posted by: Thirty2 | October 18, 2009 at 06:08 PM
The Green Asterisk
BTW Are you one of those Celtics fans who were chanting M V P for Kobe in the 2006-2007 season when the Lakers played in Boston?
Posted by: Tom | October 18, 2009 at 06:10 PM
Laker Tom
Small ball is not as effective against the Lakers compared to its effectiveness against some other teams because the Lakers can always bring the versatile Lamar Odom off the bench to match up and not lose any talent on the floor.
Posted by: Tom | October 18, 2009 at 06:14 PM
Nemaia,
Good to hear from you, my friend. And thanks for the support regarding Drew.
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I think Ron will be fine. Frankly, I think he will end up as the 4th option after Kobe, Drew, and Pau, which is really not an insult. For all the fans saying Bynum should sacrifice offense and focus on defense, I would really prefer that prescription for Ron instead. The key to Ron fitting in is going to be his efficiency from beyond the arc when teams slack off of him.
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There are a few fans who react to Drew as if he were Ben Wallace or some other offensively stunted 7-footer. Truth is that Drew is probably a naturally better offensive player than defensive player. That does not mean that he necessarily doesn’t play solid or even great defense, it just means he is going to be a very special offensive center who can score inside or mid-range. Ironically, Drew’s extended shooting range is going to add to the versatility Phil will have in creating crazy mismatches.
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With our size, there is going to be a sudden premium around the league for centers and power forwards who can shoot the 3 in order to draw Laker 7-footers away from the basket. Everybody is going to want the Mehmet Okurs and Rasheed Wallaces, big men who can hit from beyond the arc. That will be the major counter against Drew and Pau and their inside dominance. As with every single matchup, however, the other team’s players will have to deal with Drew and Pau at the other end. That’s a 4/5 duo that nobody in the league is going to able to handle, including Boston.
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | October 18, 2009 at 06:32 PM
AK/BK,
"Before you idiots blow a gasket remember the Celts won 62 last year with Garnett out the second half of the season (...)"
Posted by: The Green Asterisk | October 18, 2009 at 04:36 PM
What about the no insults policies?
We can insult the trolls back?
Posted by: MrNano | October 18, 2009 at 06:45 PM
ex,
Agree with your points about Ron. He has to shoot well from beyond the arc to complement his defense. I think he is just trying not to make waves and realizes this is just preseason, although that was truly a horrible game by him last night. Anyway, I’m not worried. The big points night in and night out are going to come from Kobe, Drew, and Pau. The rest of the rotation will do just that, rotate as to who gets more touches or points depending on matchups and whose hot.
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Todd,
Jordan did play extremely well when he got his chance to start with Fish suspended in stark contrast to how Shannon handled his opportunity last night. I read one Charlotte reporter who chipped in that the odds of Shannon Brown replacing Derek Fisher or Jordan Farmar were about 75 to 1. However, we’re still a long way away from anybody replacing Derek Fisher as our starting point guard. Farmar would have to have a break out year to even be considered to take over from Derek Fisher next year. I am hoping he will do just that. The job is his to win. All he has to do is run the offense, take care of the ball, hit his open shots, and play sound defense. He needs to show he can do that more often than just an occasional game, which he hasn’t so far. I believe Jordan has the physical tools to be the starter and the mental toughness. The question is can he harness his impulsiveness to stay within his game. So far so good this preseason. Now we just need to see him play 3 out of every 4 games like that.
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Tom
Glad to have another Tom on the blog but please append something so we can tell the Toms apart. LOL. I agree that the flexibility that Lamar gives us at the 4 is a big weapon. But don’t forget that Pau gets up and down the floor as good as any big men in the game and Drew is now doing the same thing. Naturally, one of them has to stay behind to rebound, probably Pau or Lamar, because the Lakers want Drew to “stay ahead of the ball” the way Dwight Howard does to get those easy transition hoops.
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Edwin,
Not looking too good for LA’s baseball teams. I won’t rub it in because I am rooting for the Dodgers to make it so we could have a Yankees/Dodgers World Series like I enjoyed so often as a small kid. So I’m rooting with you for the Dodgers to come back next game. Tonight is over.
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Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | October 18, 2009 at 06:50 PM
Guy R,
Disagree with you buddy. Yes Taliq will probably hammer me but again let me say: Way too early still even at 31 years old.
1) FG% is important. Its so tiring that people say "Oh Kobe takes more threes". Jerry West's game was inside and outside. YET his FG% has been consistently been better with KB's. (Then the "better defense today" thing comes....and I say look at how Stern changed the traveling rule that benefits perimeter players more than ever. Second, handchecking's elimination was very significant and that is very comparable to Defensive Backs not being able to touch Receivers after 10 yards. Third almost every NBA team barely uses zone since teams still prefer man to man defense so that throws out the "advanced defenses" thing). Using non Laker examples Larry Bird and Reggie Miller were primarily outside shooters yet achieved over 50% FG% wise quite a few time (Reggie being my favorite Bruin despite watching Bill Walton's dominance).
2) Don't use just statistics only. If that was the case then Oscar Robertson should be number 1 of all time (Wilt is my number 1). If using bare statistics only then Lebron should be the best in the game which he is not (though he is very good player). Kobe is still the best despite production not as good as Lebron's is.
3) Don't compare players until their careers are over. I remember in 1999-2000 people were saying Shaq was better than Wilt. Sure Shaq was so dominant then but even if Shaq came back to the Lakers next season almost every Laker fan would never dare say Shaq was as dominant as Wilt was. Just wait before comparing players overall. Kobe can win more titles and accolades even though I foresee a drop in his regular season production because of the talent surrounding him and those career averages will not be top. Before the Sheriff comes again: Wait until Kobe retires before comparing head to head because even then it's way too early atm to say that (and I will say that if Kobe retired tomorrow that despite the awards/production Kareem will still be better).
I will agree though that Kobe is better than Jordan skillwise (Phil has agreed with that).
Laker Tom,
"Finally, Phil envisions these Lakers as a team that plays more straight up man-to-man defense rather than the pseudo-zone help defenses the Lakers deployed at times last year."
Props for "Real man defense" instead of a crummy, fake, "advanced defenses" LOL.
Todd,
1) Mark Jackson is an idiot.
2) Farmar had Collison to hold off against Brooks defensively in college and Collison also busted Aaron Brooks butt in college.
3) It seems you forget Game 5 where Derek Fisher started yet Brooks scored 14 points at a very low FG% (37%). Using one game as an example.....very bad judgement on your part
4) Seriously you must think Aaron Brooks must be some be in the top 2 of current PG's because you keep mentioning him. Okay try Farmar's performances against D-Will or Monte Ellis or even against Chauncey Billups, do you honestly see Farmar shutting them down? Heck Derrick Rose has way much more upside defensively than Farmar does.
5) You argued against yourself. If you say Kidd (who shot 40% from the perimet with Dallas as a spot up shooter to make up for Jason Terry's scoring) wouldn't be good with Kobe then how the heck Farmar will? Farmar prefers the ball in his hands most of the time and isn't a spot up shooter. So why start Farmar when he's much more of a slasher.
Give me Nick Van Exel over Farmar any day of the week.
Posted by: KB Blitz | October 18, 2009 at 06:55 PM
I have read that article over at foxsports.com and I thought Charley gave a very and short observation about the triangle offense.
Posted by: dice8up | October 18, 2009 at 07:04 PM
BTW Are you one of those Celtics fans who were chanting M V P for Kobe in the 2006-2007 season when the Lakers played in Boston?
Posted by: Tom | October 18, 2009 at 06:10 PM
Are you one of those "Laker" fans booing Kobe in the 2007-2008 season at Staples?
Posted by: 131-92 | October 18, 2009 at 07:13 PM
A purple asterisk after 2007-08 championship?? What series did you watch?
Ray Allen looks like he can play until he is 50 years old, ask Sasha; Derek Fisher played last year like he is 50 years old, I'm sure he got a lot better this off season (lol).
Celtics are 6-4 in last 10 games with Lakers, clobbering them 4-2 in the finals and are 2-1 with a healthy Bynum who disappears when he has to go against Kendrick Perkins.
The game in Boston last year was a fluke and the Christmas game, well if the Lakers didn't win that game at home on national TV after getting thrashed 131-92 the previous June they would have been the biggest pu----- in NBA history.
The 3 best teams are in the East; Celtics, Cavs and Magic, Lakers a distant 4 or maybe 5 after the Spurs.
enjoy your asterisk* and second round playoff appearance.
Posted by: The Green Asterisk | October 18, 2009 at 07:26 PM
I have meaning to post but have just reading the blather about Andrew's poor performance in the play-offs. Didn't any one see any of the pictures on the TV when he walked out after a game and he was limping so bad it was painful to watch. Yet he tried each and every night.
Jack
Posted by: Laker North | October 18, 2009 at 07:29 PM
Ex,
I'm going to respectfully disagree with you regarding emphasizing Artest more in the offense. Sure, if he shoots well from the perimeter it will open up the paint for both Pau and Andrew. However, my contention was taking the higher percentage shots and utilizing Andrew more in the offense because he's more efficient than Artest. I'm not saying that Artest shouldn't be aggressive in the offense, but that I'd rather have Andrew get more touches down low than Artest hoisting it from outside. Besides, we already have Kobe, Pau and Fish who average more touches and shots than Andrew. Now that we've added Artest, I disagree that he too should get more shots than Bynum. I could see PJ emphasizing Artest more offensively when he's running with the second unit because for all his offensive versatility, he's no Kobe or even LO for that matter. I'd take Bynum near the basket over Artest shooting jumpers every time. When I watched and listened to Phil Jackson's response to Bynum's goal of becoming and all-star this year, it sounded like a half hearted approval and support of that goal. If Bynum doesn't make the all-star team, Phil Jackson would be one of the big reasons why, especially if he allows Artest to chuck it up more than Andrew touches it in the post. Just my take on the situation.
Posted by: Nemaia Faletogo | October 18, 2009 at 07:35 PM
Lakertom,
Yes, we also like Andrew to be "ahead of the ball" like Dwight Howard does....Also, we also like him to take the Rebound, and AFTER that stay ahead of the ball (thats what Howard does)
He's played well on offense this pre-season, but he still does not seem all that interested in Hustle & D. He needs to know good offense makes good centers, but is good defense that make GREAT centers.
In pre-season games so far, Bynum has played most minutes among Lakers in each game, and in only one game he has topped the Rebounds among Lakers. So, we need more on D from Drew.
Posted by: Kobefan in Cupertino | October 18, 2009 at 07:52 PM
What the heck, we're trailing 13-4 to CLIPPERS??? :-(
Posted by: Kobefan in Cupertino | October 18, 2009 at 07:53 PM
Must have been some pretty worried fans in Boston....
Imagine your team going missing for 17 years...........wow.
Posted by: Thirty2 | October 18, 2009 at 08:11 PM
Kobefan in Cupertino,
>>> Yes, we also like Andrew to be "ahead of the ball" like Dwight Howard does....Also, we also like
>>> him to take the Rebound, and AFTER that stay ahead of the ball (thats what Howard does).
LOL. It’s unreasonable to want Drew to get the rebound AND beat everyone down the floor. Dwight might have done that a couple of times in his life but that is a rare occurrence. It is also obvious to me that this preseason the Lakers want Drew to take off when the ball up unless he is guarding the shooter or his man is crashing the boards. If you think about it, it is a smart move that helps the team get easy baskets in transition and helps the team impose its will in the battle of the matchups. Same as on offense, if Drew does not take the shot, his job is to hustle down court rather than trying to hit the offensive boards. Transition offense and defense is the Achilles heel of playing tall ball. This is part of the Lakers strategy to make sure they control the tempo and dominate the matchups. At least, that is my take on what is going on although I have not specifically heard Phil lay it all out.
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | October 18, 2009 at 08:20 PM
Nemaia,
I didn't say that Artest should get more shots than Bynum, I said that PJ should be emphasizing Artest more at this point. Bynum will get a significant amount of opportunities just by running the floor, and being in position down low when his man leaves to help elsewhere.
Posted by: exhelodrvr | October 18, 2009 at 09:01 PM
NICE HALF BY SHANNON BROWN…
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Great to see Shannon come back and have a great half. His best role is backing up Kobe rather than Fisher as he showed with two turnovers and a couple of trips down where he just basically dribbled away the clock. Shannon is a much better shooter when he squares his shoulders. With better shot selection, he can be a spark plug on offense as well as defense. Those mitts and hops are very MJ-ish.
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Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | October 18, 2009 at 09:10 PM
Saw Clippers' last game at a friend's place...
That kid Blake Griffin... wow, he is GOOD, as in real GOOD. He may or might not become the next Tim Duncan, but given proper conditioning and NBA polishing, he might become an awesome.
In my dream-land, would trade Luke + Sasha + Ammo gladly for that guy (I know we have enough bigs, but an extra big does not hurt) :-)
Btw, why on earth is Kobe taking all those shots, some of them are ultra-low probability shots, is it that he's taking these as in-game training during the pre-season??
Posted by: Kobefan in Cupertino | October 18, 2009 at 09:27 PM
ANDREW’S GREAT HANDS ARE BACK…
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Tonight we saw those sticky soft hands of Andrew Bynum really go to work, grabbing errant passes and ricocheting rebounds in traffic like the best NFL tight ends. There were 3 or 4 just stunning catches as well as another 2 or 3 smart tips of rebounds to other Lakers. Despite a bad shooting performance, Drew really picked up his game tonight, showing great energy on the offensive and defensive boards, leading the Lakers in out-rebounding the Clippers despite both Pau and Lamar being on the bench. 20 points and 13 boards, including 8 offensive, 1 steal and 1 blocked shot in 28 minutes after 3 quarters.
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Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | October 18, 2009 at 09:35 PM
Very impressed with the Lakers second unit tonight. This team is just on a different level. Every player brings that intensity, and I just love it. This is the most complete team I have ever seen so far in this recent decade. It is just preseason, but this team is already playing like a team, which skies what they can accomplish as a team. Can we say 73?
Posted by: wow | October 18, 2009 at 10:16 PM
BK/AK, Anyone,
Why did the Lakers pass on DeJuan Blair in this year's draft??? He would've provided the Lakers another physical banger down low and could've backed up Pau, LO and even Drew. He's also got very long arms, rebounds and plays well around the basket. I agree with many others who felt that the Spurs got a steal. Who does the scouting for us before and during the draft?
Most of Drew's misses tonight against the Clippers were chippies and tips, but he still led us in scoring and continued his strong play as the real season draws near. The bench did pretty good as well as Shannon, Adam, Mbenga and Farmar turned in pretty good performances. Gaffney played well too while he was in there. Kobe's touch seems to be off so far this preseason, so I hope he finds his touch soon. Go Lakers!!!
Posted by: Nemaia Faletogo | October 18, 2009 at 10:19 PM
U know what?
Our team is very good, like maybe historically kinda good. We might need a 34 in a row bandwagon.
Davis played enough minutes to make ya think Dunleavy wanted this game, but nooo-oh. The Clips have the ammunition to do some damage this year but they're missin' the essential element... the word "Lakers" on their jersey.
And speakin' of ammunition, great to see AMMO get it goin'. Any vet dude that plays summer league deserves blog props. Brown wowed, Andrew dominated Kobe coasted. The only weak spots on the team are Joel and Stu.
It is inevitable.
Posted by: VMan | October 18, 2009 at 10:34 PM
Another miserable loss of our baseball team, they became cold on the East Coast weather.
Gotta love the Lakers game tonight compared to the past games. Jordan was making good decisions as a PG and teams up well with Shannon doing the UPS special delivery. However, the night belongs to Ammo's explosion, finally he is getting back his confidence and bringing back the Zag swaggart that made him famous in NCAA. To old fans, it brings back the memories of Gail Goodrich and Jerry West with those swishing shots. If he keeps achieving on that level, Walton will slide to 3rd SF or competing for SG time with Sasha. A good outside shooter and a tall Center are the two important elements of good triangle. We can go back to '00 - '02 Championships Lakers always have consistent shooters from: Fox, Fisher and Horry, on the reserves Penberthy or Rice and the 3rd side is Kobe. That makes the triangle perfect, it a defensive nightmare for the opposing team. Phil must be happy with that results tonight because it opens up another weapon cache and his reserves held on the lead in the 4th quarter against Clips starters. It gave him more options in setting more combination out there.
Posted by: Edwin Gueco | October 18, 2009 at 10:55 PM
Turned out to be a good game, so glad to see Ammo finally come alive. And, I admire the fact that Phil has continued to give him substantial minutes in the preseason, even when he was looking like a zombie. I hope he's able to build on tonight.
Posted by: dave m | October 18, 2009 at 10:55 PM
How nice to see Charley Rosen treated with respect by the L.A. Times. I remember six or seven years ago when then-beat writer Tim Brown would mock Rosen IN PRINT IN THE TIMES for allegedly waving to try to get Phil's attention or would ignore Rosen's scoops or dismiss them as "Internet reports."
Nice to see a grown-up attitude.
Posted by: Chris | October 18, 2009 at 11:46 PM
Vman...The lakers are so good that the clippers will reach 50 percent just by having the words LA on the jersey...the rest is up to them.
Posted by: Kiwi | October 19, 2009 at 12:30 AM
Season starts soon; biggest questions marks:
1. Will Lakers get past the second round this year.
2. Will the Celtics win 73 regular season games.
Chances are greater that Celtics will and Lakers won't.
Posted by: The Green Asterisk .....
you mean The Green asswipe
WHAT makes you think one or more of the Celtic Senior citizens are NOT going down with another injury THIS year, Wallace is a fossil, KG now has knee problems, Allen is WHAT 36???, you guys are held together with chewing gum and bailing wire, you'll be lucky to make it into the 1st round, Why are you here? WHAT they don't have blogs in Boston ???
Posted by: tomK | October 19, 2009 at 12:33 AM
First time I saw Ammo played in rhythm and with confidence and I liked what I saw. Nice shooting.
I think Phil believes in this guy. Imagine how much oppurtunitoes Kwame got from Phil. If Ammo gets 1/64 of that oppurtunity Phil won't be sorry.
Lakers just got deeper.
Posted by: Staples 24 | October 19, 2009 at 01:45 AM
Farmar, Brown and Ammo looks like in sync and cohesive as bench players tonight. The three has a nice chemistry to manufacture their own offense.
The bench is starting to look good. Throw in a Bynum or Gasol with them and it will just get better.
Posted by: Staples 24 | October 19, 2009 at 01:50 AM
re: "The mechanics of the triangle offense can for some be tough to understand (this, by the way, includes some players who attempt to execute it)."
and "Gasol with another year in the triangle"
I think I got the triangle Coach Winter, the center makes a high post cut receives a pass and then looks for players cutting backdoor, if that doesn't happen give it to Kobe (or Michael) and let him jack one up.
Wow, that is so complex and really tough to understand, it is like basketball rocket science!
Most players learn this in the 5th grade or could understand the concept after one 60 minute practice; but if Gasol needs three years to learn the "Triangle" how long will it take Artest?
Posted by: The Green Asterisk | October 19, 2009 at 05:20 AM
This back and forth slinging with the Green Asterisk and 131 does nothing constructive at all.
Let's just watch the game...
To these 2 celtics fans... I am glad you are visiting this blog, our blog. It means something to us, really. It is shouting loud that what we have here is the best there is. thanks... See you in June.
Posted by: dice8up | October 19, 2009 at 05:24 AM
Vman...The lakers are so good that the clippers will reach 50 percent just by having the words LA on the jersey...the rest is up to them. Posted by: Kiwi | October 19, 2009 at 12:30 AM
For the first time today...Do I have to say it? OUT FREAKIN STANDING KIWI!
Posted by: MAMBA24 | October 19, 2009 at 05:29 AM
*
34 IN A ROW - BANDWAGON
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(01) VMAN - OWNER - Our team is very good, like maybe historically kinda good. We might need a 34 in a row bandwagon.
(02) MAMBA24 - DRIVER
Posted by: MAMBA24 | October 19, 2009 at 05:33 AM