If Sun can make it there, he can make it anywhere
As if a first look at guard Toney Douglas, selected by the Knicks at the end of the first round in this summer's draft after the Lakers sold New York their pick* or the searing hatred most purple and gold loyalists feel for Danilo Gallinari** wasn't enough to make November 24th's matchup with the Knicks Must See TV, you can add another wrinkle: Revenge of the Sun.
Maybe.
According to Howard Beck of the New York Times, the Knickerbockers have signed Sun Yue to a partially guaranteed contract for next season. He'll face some competition to make the roster, but given that New York isn't dripping in talent, it's certainly not absurd to think Sun could stick with a solid camp. At 6'9", he could be an interesting fit in Mike D'Antoni's system assuming he knocks down some shots and runs the floor. Can he? I have no idea. Sun's 28 minutes of burn last season weren't all that instructive, other than in making it clear he wasn't ready to contribute to a championship squad. Could a lottery team be a different story? Or maybe Sun's just looking for a bigger market, a'la LeBron?
However you slice it, I certainly wish him the best.
BK
*A reach, for sure.
**Totally fictional, as far as I know.
(Photo: Kevork Djansezian, AP)
This spells trouble, big trouble. I am now not so sure that we can win if we meet the Knicks in the finals next year. Fear and trembling indeed!
GOOOoooOOO LAKERS !!!!!
Posted by: JohnnyP | September 13, 2009 at 09:20 PM
May the Sun shine over your path,
and may the force be with you.
Good luck!
Posted by: MrNano | September 13, 2009 at 09:36 PM
Hey, I hope the kid becomes a star there. I really do. I'm not one of those that hates on players once they leave the team. If somebody put on the Lakers uniform and did their time, whether they played a total of 28 minutes or helped bring us a ring (or 3), they're okay in my book. Until we meet them in a game and then they gotta be stepped on but that's nothing personal.
Posted by: dave m | September 13, 2009 at 10:34 PM
How many other players on the Knicks can claim a Championship ring?
Posted by: Rick Friedman | September 13, 2009 at 10:57 PM
This is one player where I can honestly say, either I was wrong, or my own hopes got in the way of my judgement. Sun's was a timid, timid player last year. He's got height, handling, and decent enough skills, but I don't think he was mentally nor physically prepared for NBA basketball. Its faster, more demanding, more physical it seems he was anticipating.
Posted by: #4 | September 13, 2009 at 11:15 PM
#4, the first year was filled with so much adjustment, and of course he got off to a bad start with MONO. Kill this topic, because it's just going to be about a buncha people ripping on a young player that didn't end up in the right situation. Like I said, he's a minimum salary player, I think the Lakers should have taken a longer look. Look at what we had to endure with Sasha, Farmar, Walton.....Smush.....Sun is young and he will eventually get stronger and NBA savvy. The decision not to continue with his 2nd year was absurd. What can you show in 28 minute. I dare you to go over the tape and see how the first 28 minutes of Trevor Ariza looked. I bet it was horrible. People don't slam on Sun, he did not enjoy last year I am sure.
Posted by: humanomaly (aka "The Anti-Crust") | September 13, 2009 at 11:59 PM
I personally believe that Sun Yue can't play, but if he proves me wrong I'll be happy for him. I love it when people prove to me that they are better than I anticipated they could be.
What do we play for? RINGS!!!
Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.
GO LAKERS!!!
Posted by: Jon K. | September 14, 2009 at 12:58 AM
Anyone watching Entourage? I heard Andrew Bynum and Lebron James are supposed to make a cameo. Anyway, I'm kind of glad Lloyd left the agency. Ari doesn't realize how much he needs Lloyd. It's like Laker fans needing a Lamar Odom. No matter how much we yell and criticize him, we need him.
Posted by: never | September 14, 2009 at 01:10 AM
#4.....
28 minutes.
Posted by: humanomaly (aka "The Anti-Crust") | September 14, 2009 at 01:37 AM
and by the way, people were wasting their thinking about a guy who would never fit into the Lakers system, Nate Robinson, daydreaming, because it wasn't feasible, and instead they let go of a player they should have spent time developing. Hey Magic, where were you?, while Kareem tutors Bynum, you're more concerned about getting you face on tv doing commentary. How much time did you ever spent mentoring a 6'9" point guard, Sun Yue. Just win a few more, Kobe retire, then I'm out....people with insight, how did Sun Yue progress during the year in practices. Obviously he learns fast, he speaks better English now than 95% of the NBA. Start slamming him. Like I said, Sun was a player the Lakers needed to hold on to in order to develop for the future. Why the quick cut? Rip him!!!! GO ahead.
Posted by: humanomaly (aka "The Anti-Crust") | September 14, 2009 at 01:44 AM
This is just another example of all the ex-Laker players there are/were in the league. Teams know the best players come from LA, and are eager to tap into their skills and knowledge gleaned from years/minutes spent in purple and gold.
GO LAKERS!!! 5-peat BABY111
Posted by: camdog | September 14, 2009 at 05:15 AM
Knicks organization is hoping that Sun can draw chinese-american fans and spectators to watch the games. Good luck, Sun.
Posted by: Leomil | September 14, 2009 at 07:25 AM
I won't be surprised if Sun makes the roster, I think the knicks just might sign him for the very reason the Lakers did last season. To woo over some more asian fans.
I will be surprised if he makes any sort of contribution to the team. The dude I saw last year seemed like a boy among men, and (N)o (B)oys (A)llowed in this league.
Posted by: Segeboy Formerly Known As Taliq | September 14, 2009 at 07:57 AM
LakerTom,
[You hear people say all the time that you can never really know somebody else, especially pro athletes whom you only see or hear in the media. That ‘s what the traitorous fans who abandoned Kobe said to justify their doubting and losing faith in the young man they had previously worshipped. That’s BS. Through the years, Kobe has proven to me by his statements and actions to be the same good-hearted, well-humored, insanely competitive individual I grew to love and respect as a young player.]
Death to the traitors? Anyway great insight. The haters base their judgements on a few clips, the apologists base their judgements on terabytes of information gleaned from monitoring news on their star 24/7. By the time espn breaks any sort of news on the lakers, I've usually read it somewhere else first
Posted by: Segeboy Formerly Known As Taliq | September 14, 2009 at 08:01 AM
i wanted to c sun ball it up on the lakers. i didnt get to see him get much PT last season. it wasnt a big loss to lose him though. i hope he does well on the knicks. GO LA
Posted by: anthony donk | September 14, 2009 at 09:09 AM
humanomaly, that's true, and certainly I was an ardent supporter of his potential last year. Still for Phil Jackson coached teams, minutes are usually a reward for a rookie that practices hard or shows something special at practice. They are usually given more minutes if they go out and produce or do something he likes in certain situations. So 28 minutes indicates that Phil saw no potential in him or he didn't work hard enough.
To give him the benefit of the doubt, there are guys that come bounce back really well and guys that take awhile. Its not always skill or will that plays into that. He's still an international level player regardless of how well he does in the NBA. There alot of players that play well internationally, but for some reason can't break into the NBA.
He just came off as timid. Whether that's an after effect of mono or not remains to be seen, but if he thinks New York is going to be easier of if its just another Asian player that's signed to a big market to make big bucks back home remains to be seen.
As of now, I am neutral on him. That's giving him the benefit of the doubt considering his lack of reward minutes.
Posted by: #4 | September 14, 2009 at 09:14 AM
KB Blitz
["But your goals are ridiculous. If Shaq were playing with Kobe today, he would not put up averages like that."
He did. Shaq put those numbers regardless of how good Kobe was. That's why he had 3 Finals MVP's.]
Dude its tiring to hear you scream the virtues of Shaq and MJ on this blog. I've got respect/appreciation for the former and I'm a gigantic fan of the latter. Still this is Kobe's house, enough already, respect ya finals mvp.
Anyway with regards to Shaq deserving his 3 finals mvp, no argument against that. The sheriff's office would like to point out that during our 3-peat, the true finals was the western conference finals with the winner being a huge favorite to walk over the weaker east. If you checkout those western conference finals, then perharps you'll finaly start acting like you followed the lakers during those 3peats. For any laker fan that watched all those games, there's no way you simply dismiss Kobe as a 2nd fiddle. That wasn't Shaq's 3peat ... it was without question the Kobe&Shaq show with each deserving equal attention ... you don't disrepect the body of work Kobe put in during those years by flaunting Shaq's 3 mvps and acting like oh yeah he did most of the heavy lifting.
I've collected regular season/wester conference finals/nba finals stats below to give an indication that Kobe's numbers were comparable to Shaq's during the regular season and during the western conference finals. When it got to the nba finals the task at hand was easier, those mvps/numbers you quote for Shaq isn't where the championship was won. That eastern conference is not comparable to the current east squads.
Stats quoted are points per game/assists per game
01/02
Regular Season ( Shaq 27.2/3 Kobe 25.2/5.5 )
West Finals: sacremento 4-3( Shaq 30.3/1.6 Kobe 27.1/3.9 )
Nba finals: jersey 4-0( Shaq 36.4/3.8 Kobe 26.8/5.3)
00/01
Regular Season ( Shaq 28.7/3.7 Kobe 28.5/5 )
West Finals: san antonio 4-0( Shaq 27/2.5 Kobe 33.3/7 )***
Nba finals: philadelphia 4-1( Shaq 33/4.8 Kobe 24.6/5.8)
99/00
Regular Season ( Shaq 29.7/3.8 Kobe 22.5/4.9 )
West Finals: portland 4-3( Shaq 25.9/4.3 Kobe 20.4/5.9 )
Nba finals: indiana 4-1( Shaq 38.0/2.3 Kobe 15.6/4.2)
*** As seen in recent threads about MJ, there is some merit in having a worthy adversary ala Magic/Bird. The past decade of basketball was ruled by the los-angeles lakers & san antonio spurs. I find it very telling that from 2001-2004 we fance san-antonio four consecutive times, the first being in the west-finals and the other 3 times the west-semis. In every single one of those series Kobe's number exceeded Shaq's. Feel free to point to the twin towers as limiting Shaq, I can point you to several highlights of Kobe dunking over those same towers.
Talent wise Shaq/Kobe had an equal stake in the lakers, Politically Shaq was more vested, Effort wise kobe has put more into the lakers than any of his other teammates since his rookie year, results/stats wise Shaq had an edge but in the games were we faced our toughest opposition kobe had the edge or at the very least was right there with Shaq.
Respect your finals mvp. He didn't just win his firt ring. He's on number 4, and as for the first 3, it wasn't earned on the back of Shaq's 3 finals mvp performances.
I got nothing against folks that prefer Shaq to Kobe ... but when you state that preference on this blog ... it's no different than red's love child stating his prefence for the celtics over the lakers ... #24 bleeds purple and gold ... he has this blogs allegiance ... I know he's got yours too blitz, so stop beating him over the head with Shaq's accolades ... even if it's in an attempt to bring lakertom back down to earth on the issue of bynum ...
24 + 16 + [1]7 = The Purple Tinted Golden Age
Posted by: Segeboy Formerly Known As Taliq | September 14, 2009 at 09:32 AM
Segeboy,
Aside from the fact that you will always be Taliq to me, thanks for the support for our boy Kobe.
We are going to see a complete reversal of public opinions of Kobe over the next five years compared to MJ and LeBron – the discussion will be the greatness of Kobe being compared to MJ with LeBron as the super talent who couldn’t win a championship and never will. In the end, Kobe will get the recognition as the greatest shooting guard ever in my opinion. So what’s with Segeboy? Why drop Taliq? Just curious. :)
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | September 14, 2009 at 09:37 AM
camdog,
"GO LAKERS!!! 5-peat BABY111"
Amen to that
Posted by: Segeboy Formerly Known As Taliq | September 14, 2009 at 09:37 AM
#4
28 minutes during game, how were his fundamentals during practice. I saw one clip his shooting was on par with the machine, and we had to wait 3 years for that flash in the pan, I am Asian, I believe Sun needed a little more time to physically mature, I think learning the NBA style of game would not have been an overwhelming obstacle. He would have been 20 lbs heaveier and quicker and stronger in 2 years. Yes does glue the rookies to the bench as well as others, Ira, McKie, many others. As I asked did Sun screw up in practices, Did Jackson start his mind games on him (because I doubt they would have worked, frustrating Jackson> All I see is 28 minutes in a stat recap. and a pink slip. Should have kept him around for longer, didn't the even give benedict arnold Cobi Karl more time around the tea. Back to the Wil Conroy signing by the rockets, I watched 2 preseason games when he was in Laker's camp, and he was just a squirt trying to control the orchestra...tell me what would you rather have a Magic Johnson/Pippen type (Sun Yue, down the road), or a Nate Robinson type without talent (or is that being redundant), either way both are gone now, but I'm gonna try to find a Knicks Sun Yue jersey, and I hope he shows that Kupchak and the Office, make as many mistakes, as they have gotten benefits.....Sun Yue could have been important to the Lakers in another 2-3 years....when that time come tell me what they have. How is Javaris doing?
Posted by: humanomaly (aka "The Anti-Crust") | September 14, 2009 at 10:01 AM
#4
28 minutes during game, how were his fundamentals during practice. I saw one clip his shooting was on par with the machine, and we had to wait 3 years for that flash in the pan, I am Asian, I believe Sun needed a little more time to physically mature, I think learning the NBA style of game would not have been an overwhelming obstacle. He would have been 20 lbs heaveier and quicker and stronger in 2 years. Yes does glue the rookies to the bench as well as others, Ira, McKie, many others. As I asked did Sun screw up in practices, Did Jackson start his mind games on him (because I doubt they would have worked, frustrating Jackson> All I see is 28 minutes in a stat recap. and a pink slip. Should have kept him around for longer, didn't the even give benedict arnold Cobi Karl more time around the tea. Back to the Wil Conroy signing by the rockets, I watched 2 preseason games when he was in Laker's camp, and he was just a squirt trying to control the orchestra...tell me what would you rather have a Magic Johnson/Pippen type (Sun Yue, down the road), or a Nate Robinson type without talent (or is that being redundant), either way both are gone now, but I'm gonna try to find a Knicks Sun Yue jersey, and I hope he shows that Kupchak and the Office, make as many mistakes, as they have gotten benefits.....Sun Yue could have been important to the Lakers in another 2-3 years....when that time come tell me what they have. How is Javaris doing?
Posted by: humanomaly (aka "The Anti-Crust") | September 14, 2009 at 10:01 AM
BK,
As my father is Chinese, I was thrilled to see Sun Yue get another shot at the NBA. I thought he was the perfect long term project for the Lakers with his height, length, and skills. Unfortunately, he got off to a bad start and then just looked totally intimidated when he finally did get a chance to play.
I think if we had not had such a high salary and luxury tax, Sun would have gotten a chance to play another year but with his $750K costing the club $1.5M including luxury tax and China not allowing him to play in the Las Vegas summer league, the Lakers did the right thing to cut him from the team.
I do understand humanomaly’s disappointment and do think Lakers fans need to be more considerate about the negative comments from some quarters. I don’t think the comments on the blog have been racially motivated as he has implied at times but some comments have been overly harsh and unfair.
Considering the racial overtones of many comments about Yao Ming from NBA players and analysts such as Charles Barkley in the past, fans should understand that ripping the only Chinese guard in the NBA could be easily misconstrued as racist by Chinese fans hoping for Sun to succeed.
My best wishes to Sun Yue to get his act together and show that a guard from China is good enough to play in the NBA.
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | September 14, 2009 at 10:19 AM
LakerTom,
"the discussion will be the greatness of Kobe being compared to MJ with LeBron as the super talent who couldn’t win a championship and never will"
I wonder who hates lebron more, yourself or jon k. LBJ got a pass in my book the moment he and kobe came on tv doing the buddy routine. I mean come on y'all they're roommates as puppets. Still I'm not going to argue with you on LBJ. I won't say he'll never win a championship, but I will say he'll definately be yet another witness to kobe's reign over the league.
"So what’s with Segeboy? Why drop Taliq? Just curious. :)"
I'd like to launch a personal site by the end of the year. I figure it's time to start a digital archive of some of my interests, at the very least it'll be something the grand kids can laugh about. Anyway segeboy is a nickname my brother used 2 call me, it's what I intend to call the site, and I intend to have a sheriff's section on there inspired by the numerous laker debates we all continue to have on lakersblog.
Posted by: Segeboy Formerly Known As Taliq | September 14, 2009 at 10:19 AM
Top 10 Most Hated Current Players by Lakers Fans
10. Dante Jones (The trip)
9. Raja Bell (The Clothesline)
8. All members of the San Antonio Spurs
7. All members of the Utah Jazz
6. Shaquille O'Neal (The Traitor)
5. Kwame Brown (Beautiful calves outweighed by lack of hands)
4. All pesky point guards who play way above their heads against us in the play-offs
3. Kenyon Martin (mouth) and The Birdman (wings)
2. (Space reserved for Smush Parker should he make a return)
1. Danillo Gallinari, hands down!!!!!
Posted by: Jesterguru | September 14, 2009 at 10:21 AM
LakerTom,
"My best wishes to Sun Yue to get his act together and show that a guard from China is good enough to play in the NBA. "
Nobody is arguing that. Most of us are just saying from the little we've seen so far, that guy will probably not be Sun Yue.
Posted by: Segeboy Formerly Known As Taliq | September 14, 2009 at 10:42 AM
humanomaly,
"Should have kept him around for longer, didn't the even give benedict arnold Cobi Karl more time around the tea."
Economics bro ... if Lamar/Ariza weren't up for extensions this year then Sun Yue probably gets a 2nd look ... With all the money LA is investing in now, they just don't have the capacity to invest in Sun's development
Posted by: Segeboy Formerly Known As Taliq | September 14, 2009 at 10:45 AM
I hope Sun gets a chance to show why we drafted him. He didn't do much with his 28 minutes of actual NBA game-time and he didn't 'wow' anybody in the D-League. New York might be a better place for him because Mike D likes himself some free-wheeling NBA action and maybe Sun's game and D'Antoni's philosophy will mesh better.
My only thought would be that Sun found the triangle as diifcult to master as such NBA luminaries as JR Rider, Smushie P and other mid level NBA talents who've graced the end of Phil's bench. Sun reminds me of Shaun Livingston, modern NBA skills with an 80's NBA body, not enough bulk to bang with the boys, as it were.
Will he ever rise above a minor role on any NBA squad? He never shot above 40%, even in the D-league, so it's tough to say. Even a guard who is primarily a passer hsa to make a bucket or two to keep his defender honest, otherwise he's going to sag off and prevent a good pass, daring Sun to make a shot, basically.
I never saw him as our PG of the future, I had high hopes of him giving Farmar a reason to compete harder, but he never panned out in that way either. Hopefully he doesn't become a marketing tool for NBA teams trying to lure Chinese fans to their Merch website.
All in all, i wish the young man good luck, keep working on that jumper and he could be a nice back up PG on a decent NBA squad.
But not ours.
Posted by: Jamie Sweet | September 14, 2009 at 10:59 AM
LakersTom,
Sun wanted to play for the Summer League really bad but he has no choice. China will put him on their black list if he didn't play for their national team. Will the Rockets release Yao Ming if choose to play for his national team over the Rockets. The Lakers have so many talent and dept so it's really hard for Sun to get the minutes.
Posted by: BigRick007 | September 14, 2009 at 11:22 AM
humanomaly,
I think you are mistaking me for arguing against your position, when in fact, I am merely mentioning the circumstances. For the record, I am asian too, and I pull for any asian that joins a club, be it a Japanese player, a Filpino coach, or a Chinese player. I understand how we as Asians aren't afforded the same benefits of physical maturity at younger ages. Believe me, I think that defined my high school years.
I understand your premise that Sun wasn't even given a chance. Regardless of Sun Yue's skill, given the current state of the roster and the current phase of championship building that we are in (the contending phase, not rebuilding phase), the chips were going to be stacked against him. 28 minutes is all that he earned and all that could be given to him. Sasha, your comparison case, was afforded a chance because he was well known for his shooting (which the Lakers lacked) and it was a rebuilding phase. Chances can be taken....no need to swing for the fences when you've basically got the game locked up.
In other words, these Lakers don't have the time nor money to wait for potential. As for your belief that he is a Magic or Pippen type, how many years do you honestly think that will take? I'll go out on a limb and say that he will never reach that level, even with OUR Asian physiology in mind. Yi Jianlian has more potential to do that.
Mind you, this is coming from a guy that saw the potential and saw the point of his signing last summer and through the fall and winter. I'd honestly like to see him hit it big in NY. He'll likely get more PT, and play a position other than the 1, which will be good for him. But he wasn't for the Lakers, not where we are as an organization, and not for the the long road Sun Yue has to take to become a player in this league.
Posted by: #4 | September 14, 2009 at 11:29 AM
"Or maybe Sun's just looking for a bigger market, a'la LeBron?"
........sigh
BK
Can you write a blog entry WITHOUT mentioning LeBron?
It would have been just as funny without the "a'la LeBron".........Maybe you should start a Plain Dealer Cavalier blog?
Posted by: pfunk36 | September 14, 2009 at 11:29 AM
"I know he's got yours too blitz, so stop beating him over the head with Shaq's accolades ... even if it's in an attempt to bring lakertom back down to earth on the issue of bynum ..."
Taliq that was the point to bring LT back on earth on the issue of Bynum. It was never an attempt to dismiss Kobe's numbers. The point was to bring that Shaq got those numbers INSPITE of having another dominant perimeter player in Kobe Bryant. LT was using Kobe as an example of why Bynum wouldn't reach Shaq's numbers. If Bynum averaged Shaq's numbers in both the regular and postseason then yes I would be with Laker Tom on Bynum. Until then I'm not with him (probably the only thing I'm not with him on) on Bynum.
Have to realize that not everything on earth is anti-Kobe. Heck even there are Laker fans who would call other Laker fans "Kobe haters" if they simply chose Magic to lead a team over Kobe. So just because I pointed out Shaq's 3 Finals MVP doesn't lower down Kobe's 1. Those numbers of Shaq were as a reminder how Bynum is not even a dominant force compared to Shaq even if they were in the same ages (Shaq at 21 avearged close to 30ppg).
Understand now? Not everything in here has that isn't Kobe related isn't against Kobe.
Posted by: KB Blitz | September 14, 2009 at 11:31 AM
Good morning Mamba24 (wherever you may roam) and the Laker morning CRUE!!
Dear Sun - kick some Apple Ass. Love, justa. LOL - I really hope he does well in NY. Too bad Lakers didn't keep him long enough to see what he could do in more than 28 minutes of game time burn. He couldn't have been called the Chinese Magic Johnson for nothing, right? Seriously - I hope he gets a chance to develop and show what he's got.
Regarding the whole MJ induction speech - what a freaking tool. I couldn't believe what he said about his kids. What a moron. He totally deserves his hall of fame status, but as a person the word that comes to my mind first is ICK.
Posted by: justanothermambafan | September 14, 2009 at 11:34 AM
BK,
Going back to the last thread, the rivalry between the Cleveland Browns and Pittsburgh Steelers is supposed to be one of the deepest, most intractable rivalries in the sports, founded on a deep, unyielding hatred of two communities that strangely mirror one another economically, ethnically, and historically.
Right?
Well, over the past three years I've watched a subtle, insidious change.
I presently (and tragically) work in a bar in Akron as a bouncer and bartender and guess what? This week there were more Steelers fans in the bar rooting for the Steelers than there were Browns fans rooting for the Browns at each respective game.
I've questioned dozens of people "How the hell can you be a Steelers fan? You live in Ohio!"
About 30% of the people claim to have historical roots in Western Pennsylvania, but the other 70%--who also try to talk around the question--eventually confess that they're just tired of losing and they've grown to respect the quality of the Steelers' organization. In short, they just want to win because their tired of being "losers".
So, I suspect that this could be the case for many fans, they just want to be associated with a winning franchise. This, methinks, would cause many fans of nare-do-well franchises to sell-out their fandom for money far more quickly than we, who ascribe to quality franchises (Lakers), might be prone to do so.
It's all conjecture, but I have found the eroding confidence of supposedly the diehardest of the diehard Browns fans to be interesting. The last thing I though would be that some would start to become Steelers fans, but that is what has happened.
What do we play for? RINGS!!!
Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.
GO LAKERS!!!
Posted by: Jon K. | September 14, 2009 at 11:42 AM
Laker Tom,
"Considering the racial overtones of many comments about Yao Ming from NBA players and analysts such as Charles Barkley in the past, fans should understand that ripping the only Chinese guard in the NBA could be easily misconstrued as racist by Chinese fans hoping for Sun to succeed."
Brother, we can't tip-toe around a subject because a player is from China and Charles Barkley is an idiot. Sun Yue is first and foremost an human being and he deserves all the respect and responsibility of being a human being and no more nor no less than anyone else.
If he can't play, he can't play. Walking on eggshells on the matter because he's born in China is ridiculous to me.
Over-sensitivity is just that: OVER-sensitivity. I'm just talking about him as a human being. That's it.
We have a personal responsibility to be respectful to other people, but we also have a personal responsibility to exhibit a bit of toughness in how we respond to the perceived slights from others. Taking everything highly personally in life is simply a sign of deep immaturity. As men we are called upon to be mature in how we respond to the communications of others.
What do we play for? RINGS!!!
Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.
GO LAKERS!!!
Posted by: Jon K. | September 14, 2009 at 11:51 AM
Jesterguru,
How is there not a single Celtic on your list?
What do we play for? RINGS!!!
Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.
GO LAKERS!!!!
Posted by: Jon K. | September 14, 2009 at 11:53 AM
pfunk36,
"Or maybe Sun's just looking for a bigger market, a'la LeBron?"
Come on, man. Lay off BK.
That was funny. He's ironically comparing Sun Yue's ability (and narcissism) to LeBron "The Chosen One", neither of which is remotely true... thus making it funny.
What do we play for? RINGS!!!
Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.
GO LAKERS!!!!
Posted by: Jon K. | September 14, 2009 at 11:57 AM
justanothermambafan,
"Regarding the whole MJ induction speech - what a freaking tool. I couldn't believe what he said about his kids. What a moron."
I concur. It was just weird to me, all the backhanded compliments and half-acknowledgements. He didn't even thank Phil Jackson! What the hell?
What stunned me most was thinking, "THIS is the guy they turned into a marketing juggernaut? THIS is the guy that created a generation of kids thinking 'I wanna be like Mike!'? Huh? What a tool."
On a personal level, I'll take Kobe any day of the week over Jordan. I found him to be utterly unlikable.
What do we play for? RINGS!!!
Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.
GO LAKERS!!!!
Posted by: Jon K. | September 14, 2009 at 12:01 PM
S.U.N.= STUPID UNDERACHIEVING NERD.
Posted by: juanalacubana | September 14, 2009 at 12:09 PM
Blitz,
So let me get this straight. If Shaq in his prime were the starting center for the Lakers this year instead of Drew and with the rest of the team – Kobe, Pau, Ron, Lamar, Derek, etc. – the same as this year, you still think Shaq would be the team’s leading scorer – over even Kobe Bryant – with averages in the high 30’s? Is that right? If so, we will have to agree to disagree. No way anybody but Kobe averages 30 points per game on this team – even if we had Shaq in his prime.
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | September 14, 2009 at 12:13 PM
Well, at least now we'll see if the Lakers made a mistake by not playing Sun more.
Posted by: exhelodrvr | September 14, 2009 at 12:35 PM
Sun WHO?? Ohhh, Sun You..
Posted by: Jess | September 14, 2009 at 12:47 PM
juanalacubana,
"S.U.N.= STUPID UNDERACHIEVING NERD."
If humanomaly or lakertom decide to press racist charges against you, we've got enough evidence to make an arrest ... lol
Seriously though, I concur with the other blogger on here that said Sun just appeared timid ... I didn't see a single flash that says I belong here ...
To call him stupid though seems immature on your part ... dude just doesn't have enough highlights to justify such a statement ... now if you want to attach the same moniker to jordam farmar ... I'm all ears (pun intended)
Posted by: Segeboy Formerly Known As Taliq | September 14, 2009 at 12:55 PM
justanothermambafan,
"Regarding the whole MJ induction speech - what a freaking tool. I couldn't believe what he said about his kids. What a moron. He totally deserves his hall of fame status, but as a person the word that comes to my mind first is ICK."
Alright I've got to watch that speech now cuz d blog keeps making a fuss about it ... until I watch it though, I'm firmly of the opinion that y'all overreacting ... MJ knows how to handle his biz in front of the cameras, dude's been dealing with the press for like 4eva
Posted by: Segeboy Formerly Known As Taliq | September 14, 2009 at 12:58 PM
KB Blitz,
" If Bynum averaged Shaq's numbers in both the regular and postseason then yes I would be with Laker Tom on Bynum. Until then I'm not with him (probably the only thing I'm not with him on) on Bynum."
The fact that you're raising the bar that high just lends credence to LakerTom's claims. Let Bynum start averaging 20pts/10rebounds over a season before you start going "but hey, that ain't even Shaq". Reading your statements above, one would think Bynum is already producing at Dwight Howard's level and is ready to make the next jump.
"So just because I pointed out Shaq's 3 Finals MVP doesn't lower down Kobe's 1."
After re-reading my comments, I initially thought I overreacted to your post. After all you did say "Shaq put those numbers regardless of HOW GOOD Kobe was" which implies you're saying kobe rocks too. But then I remembered all your Kobe will never be MJ posts and lost any remorse I felt in labeling your posts hateration. Anyway kudos to Shaq on those finals mvps but it dont change the fact it was earned after Kobe killed the likes of the san antonio spurs for him, leaving him to feast on a weaker east. Or put another way, he dominated once the competetion got weaker.
Posted by: Segeboy Formerly Known As Taliq | September 14, 2009 at 01:08 PM
pfunk36,
[It would have been just as funny without the "a'la LeBron".........Maybe you should start a Plain Dealer Cavalier blog?]
lmfao
Posted by: Segeboy Formerly Known As Taliq | September 14, 2009 at 01:11 PM
@ Jon K. Re no celtics on my list: Just seeing if y'all were paying attention. (Actually, they sucked so bad last year i forgot all about them foe a second. HUGE oversight obviously.)
New List:
10. Dante Jones and Thuggets strong-arms
9. Raja Bell
8. Insert name of Spur or Jazz player
7. Shaq/Kwame/Ex ungrateful/untalented Lakers centers
6. Fast, pesky PGs
5. Space reserved for Smush Parker
4. Glen Davis, Ray Allen, Rajon Rondo, other Celtic Scrubs
3. LeBron James
2. Kevin Garnett/Paul Pierce
1. Gallinari, the hated one
Posted by: Jesterguru | September 14, 2009 at 02:15 PM
#4 my comparison to a magic pippen/type was a best case scenario. I just get frustrated seeing waterbug 1's get beat off the dribble, just as badly as a 6'9' Sun would have been. What he may develop into we do not know. Is that agreed upon? Well all I can do is see who players 11 to 14/15 are on the 09/10 team. I still believe he was worth a longer look.
Good talking to some new people who I havn't in the past.
Segeboy, remember, his plate was full last year, coming from Olympics, mono (hey he's young, maybe he was distracted, I would have been), the language, the NBA language, the physicality (in practice), Phil's never playing rookies, it probably took longer than 28 minutes to prep Michael Jordans exclusive toilet for his ritual pre grame bowel movement, for those not in the know, look it up, see Jerry Krause (IDIOT)...(also go for it, your site....I'll follow). And I do understand the economics, but what happens if team gets hit with injuries......what you are saying is that they are going to carry less players, which is widely know, if injuries come, I'd rather have a player that knows the triangle than one that does not. I think the gamble (and the owner has been known to do plenty of that) may have paid off. But you are right, his 900K is doubled, so that's like $2 million. I just can't let go. Therapy, or sex.
Posted by: humanomaly (aka "The Anti-Crust") | September 14, 2009 at 03:27 PM
To Jamie Sweet,
Sun Yue will not physically develop, catch up to the physical maturity of the rest if the league for another 4-5 years.....drive by a high school, look at the kids, (don't get arrested), the Asian Americans tend to be smaller and thinner than Caucasians and African Americans...I found that out myself, I was always smaller, as were my Asian friends, but by the time we were around 26-28 we were starting to peak. Putting muscle on became easier. I was thrashed by others in high school, but Asians age well, Guess one's age any you'll probably overshoot it by 10%. I did not hit my strength peak till well past 25, probably not as fast but definitely much stronger. ....OK , I'm done.....economics. But I'll feel sick if I see JR Rider sitting in seat 12.
By the way was there ever a consensus on whether it was cool or uncool for Cobi Karl to tell daddy all about the Lakers last year's playoffs. I think uncool, Obviously Cobi was outside of PJ's sacred circle of players, and coaches and that's it by that point.
I know I took a hard, personal stance, and I want to thank you all for not getting aggressive and slamming it.
Posted by: humanomaly (aka "The Anti-Crust") | September 14, 2009 at 03:45 PM
Someone said LakerTom and I were calling race card. I didn't follow all his writings, but for myself, my policy was anytime a writer referrred to Sun Yue as the Chinese, or the Asian American, I took offense. During the Lamar Odom summer of "Should I stay or should I go", was he ever once referred to as the African American player of the Lakers, Lamar Odom? NO
It's people who for some reason feel a need to point out the race, or nationality. I am beyond that in this forum, why are others NOT??? AND why was it OK??? (to make the reference)...I don't know, I guess, maybe the brothers, the 2 Caucausian brothers Kamenetzky can answer. And with a last name like that we're going to Europe!!!!
Posted by: humanomaly (aka "The Anti-Crust") | September 14, 2009 at 03:57 PM
exhelodvr,
"Well, at least now we'll see if the Lakers made a mistake by not playing Sun more. "
True.
What do we play for? RINGS!!!
Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.
GO LAKERS!!!
Posted by: Jon K. | September 14, 2009 at 04:00 PM
If a prime Shaq were on the Lakers right now, and Kobe has as high a basketball IQ as we all think he does, Kobe would be insisting on feeding Shaq the ball. Because it would be the smart thing to do.
Posted by: exhelodrvr | September 14, 2009 at 04:05 PM
"The fact that you're raising the bar that high"
Taliq/serge I only raised it that high because Laker Tom put Bynum over Shaq. And all the "Beast" talk. To me Laker fans just miss Shaq so much (Shaq of LA Lakers days) that they want Bynum to be like that. Until he shows that Bynum is no Shaq period. So if they want to declare Bynum to be 'A Beast" one that just because he lifts weights all the time and put him good because of that and shows some post skills (when Pau Gasol has MUCH more) and can't even score if he's not in the low post (every great center even Wilt could score even without being in the low post) and using "Andrew alters shots" when Shaq did that way more (and won only 3 2nd all team defense) as justification for being on the all defensive team in the upcoming season hell go for it. Bynum is a good player but I'm not on the beast bandwagon even when he does drop 40 points on the Clippers and not as good as Pau Gasol and somehow average 20 points despite having Kobe/Pau/Artest and having LO who really works well with Pau on the team.
"But then I remembered all your Kobe will never be MJ posts and lost any remorse I felt in labeling your posts hateration"
Did you catch my post about the steps Kobe must make to make my top 3 of Wilt/Rusell/Jordan?
5 rings, 2 Finals MVP-Surprasses Shaq/Duncan
6 rings, 3 Finals MVP-Suprasses Hakeem Olajuwon and ties Magic Johnson/Larry Bird
7 rings, 4 Finals MVP-Surpasses Magic/Bird and ties with Kareem.
8+ throws out either Wilt/Russell/Jordan out of top 3.
Plus I have Kobe number 10 of all time which is great considering that I put him above Oscar Robertson who was a triple double machine. So why put the haterade when I have Kobe number 10? That is putting him above the likes of Dr. J and Jerry West and Moses Malone already
Posted by: KB Blitz | September 14, 2009 at 04:34 PM
Jesterguru,
What about the Detroit Pistons and anything related to them. This is just a ugly team. I would pick Rasheed Wallace...
By the way what a game by FedEx and del Potro!
Posted by: Ganapia | September 14, 2009 at 04:56 PM
Good Luck Sun. You never know, you might be able to turn into a solid contributer on that team. You just need to believe in yourself.
Posted by: kigz | September 14, 2009 at 06:04 PM
Is Jerry Buss as smartand as decisive as Red Auerbach?
This question arose the other night as Michael Jordan gave his famous speech.It should be worth acknowledging the statue in front of the Chicago Stadium is Michael Jordan and not the general manager.
The confusion and tension over success remains a problem in all professional sports and politics.
I would agree with Michael.I think Jerry West,Kareem,Magic,James Worthy,Byron Scott,Shaq,and Kobe were the main reasons everyone in the NBA hates LA.
And I would be remiss if I didn't think Bill Russell,Sam Jones,Bob Cousy,Bill Sharman,the Chief,Larry Bird,Dennis Johnson, Kevin McHale,and Kevin Garnett deserved those banners as much as Red did.The same thing could be said for David Robinson and Tim Duncan on the Spurs.
Posted by: tarheelchief | September 14, 2009 at 06:06 PM
I think that people hate the Lakers as an extension of the general disdain much of the country feels towards SoCal. The perception that we are not "real" sports fans adds to that. The Lakers success increases the amount of jealousy from some of the areas.
Posted by: exhelodrvr | September 14, 2009 at 06:57 PM
Sun was the Laker's only project player(most teams have at least one, the bad ones have like three or four) on a team that didn't have floor time to develop players. I didn't get a good enough read to see what he can do, so I don't feel good or bad about him leaving the team. I wish him well.
On another subject, MAN ALIVE I cannot wait for next season to start. Offseasons are torture-one can only take so much reading little nuggets of information on websites and speculating on how the season will turn out. October 27th will be a beautiful day. Heck, the start of preseason on the 7th will be a beautiful day.
Posted by: buddy monk | September 14, 2009 at 07:36 PM
I can't remember ever seeing a worse player than Sun. Ever. I'm trying to think of some lanky walking human/insect hybrid, but I cant think of any.
So, the award goes to Sun.
Wes
Posted by: wesjoenixon | September 14, 2009 at 07:54 PM
Responding to the post about fantasy sports...I'm an avid fantasy hoop player. I find myself watching more games and thus becoming a little more knowledgeable about different players, especially up and coming players. I don't gamble so its purely for fun...the one caveat is initially I was in a league where I had to input my team daily and that became too much of a grind by the end of the season. I don't do fantasy football because I don't have time or desire to keep up with football like I do hoops.
LRob
Posted by: LRob | September 14, 2009 at 08:40 PM
humanomaly, I agree that we don't know what he'll become. Still, even as a ceiling, Magic and Pippen would be a HUGE stretch, and that's as close were going to come on that notion. I actually see him as a smaller version of LO in his Clipper days. No post up game, but a lefty that plays well with others.
But trust me, I'd love to have a 6'9 PG, because you just can't teach height. If he ever lived up to the potential that I envisioned for him last summer, he'd be tough to shoot over, tough to get around, and tough to screen. On offense, his passing would mesh great with whomever they put on the floor.
Anyways, thanks for the discussion. Feel free to disagree with me anytime!
Posted by: #4 | September 14, 2009 at 08:42 PM
No offence to Sun but my personal vote is that nobody with the name 'Sun' should be on the lakers again.
Posted by: kiwi | September 14, 2009 at 09:12 PM
Sorry, been a bit busy and under the weather the last few days.
Oh goody! A real, albeit short lived, geek discussion! Kind of.
Jon K- Yeah, believe it or not, the fact that Moon Knight is bat@#$@ (pun intended) crazy didn't really help his case. I mean, the guy has about twelve personalities, but not in an interesting-an-actual-comic-that-addresses-mental-illness-in-a-character sort of way, but in a written by bad writers too often sort of way. No help for that.
“…2. I'm not sure he would. Moon Knight is fricken CRAZY and he beat Werewolf at Night who, it should be noted, kicked the crap out of Sabertooth. So... I'm just sayin'.”
Yeah, but that logical argument doesn’t even work in college football. I mean, Absorbing Man beat Thor, who beat Galactus (sort of), and Daredevil beat Absorbing Man, and Stilt Man beat Daredevil. Could Stilt-Man beat Penn State? I mean Galactus? Probably not.
Human- the only position I took was on Moon Knight v Batman. I don’t know much about Deadpool, or his umm… male physique, but She Hulk broke the fourth wall first. Give credit where credit is due. Could he beat Batman? I have no idea.
Generally, I base my comic book ‘who wins’ debate on about 50% my best common sense guess about the characters powers, and about 50% on who created them or had the most creative development in them as they are today. So if their powers are roughly equal, I would say that a guy created by Stan Lee and Jack Kirby or Bob Kane would whup a guy created by say Doug Moench and Don Perlin, or Fabian Nicieza and Rob Liefeld, or whoever. Badly.
And yes, this is IMPORTANT STUFF, DAMMIT!
(Not really. This is more of an ironic response to the ‘Kobe/Jordan/Wilt GOAT discussion, which always bores the heck out of me. Sorry, but bonus points for paying attention this far)
Posted by: phred | September 14, 2009 at 11:07 PM
I hope Phred can support me on this analysis.
Posted by: Tsphere | September 12, 2009 at 01:05 PM
I appreciate being asked, but beats me, I didn’t watch it. I appreciate Jordan as a basketball player, I don’t subscribe to any particular personality cult. If I want a good speech, I go to toastmasters, or something. I wouldn’t go out of my way to watch Churchill, Lincoln, Frederick Douglass or Cicero play basketball, so it seems a little unfair to expect too much from Jordan.
Posted by: phred | September 14, 2009 at 11:08 PM
man there goes all hope of seeing his girlfriend in person.
Posted by: Number16 | September 14, 2009 at 11:20 PM
Remember people, Mono is the type of disease that can sometimes take a year or longer to actually recover from. Sun got 28 minutes. Nobody knows what type of NBA player he is. The Knicks will surely find out.
I was jazzed about getting him, remember? I started the Sign Sun Ye bandwagon after all.
I'm betting he turns out to be a steal at the NBA minimum, and will probably wind up with a decent contract in a year or so -- barring injury.
Mark my words.
--Fearless
Posted by: Fearless | September 14, 2009 at 11:37 PM
Sun should fit perfectly in D'Antoni's system where defence is not a requirement. For all his supposed capabilities he plays absolutely zero defence!
Posted by: A, Cross | September 15, 2009 at 04:13 AM
BK,
>>> “If Sun can make it here, he can make it anywhere”
Actually, that mantra applies in most professional fields. Unfortunately, it does NOT apply to basketball thanks to the hapless New York Knicks. It remains to see if Dantoni can change that.
You could have said if “Sun can make it with the Lakers, he can make it anywhere. That is the rule that applies in basketball. Not the Big Apple rules that apply to banking, baseball, and pizza.
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | September 15, 2009 at 08:12 AM
BK,
One final comment about the fans who play fantasy sports. Anybody want to bet that the crazy trade proposals that constantly keep getting brought up on the blog are primarily the result of the bloggers who also play fantasy sports? Bloggers should think about that next time they complain about all of the crazy trade proposals and fans who are never satisfied with the team that we have. Their fantasy jones may be what is behind most of the wild and ridiculous trades proposed? They’re not idiots – they’re just fantasy sports fans. LOL.
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | September 15, 2009 at 08:18 AM
Humanomoly (the anti-crust)
Totally get the 'not peaking in high school physically' thing. For me it was agility and coordination that strangely manifested itself in my early-twenties. As far as Sun, I really do hope he finds a team where he can fit in and have an impact quicker than he ever would have on the Lakers. Unless he really showed he was head and shoulders better than Farmar and Brown I just don't see him getting off the pine in Purple and Gold.
In New York he has a chance, on a worse team, to get bigger minutes either in blow outs or at his coaches discretion. Just about anyone who has worn the Purple and Gold gets a nod from me as OK, at least until they suit up against us.
exhelodrvr
I agre with your assessment of Shaq. If he was just now becoming a Laker and he and Kobe didn't have the opportunity to get off on the wrong foot when Kobe was younger and more head strong I think the fairy tale would have ended differently.
Maybe we could call Doc Brown and change our density.
Posted by: Jamie Sweet | September 15, 2009 at 08:30 AM
I mean our destiny.
Posted by: Jamie Sweet | September 15, 2009 at 08:31 AM
Good morning Mamba24 (ohhhh Mamba24......) and Laker morning CRUE!!!
Can October 7th come fast enough? No - absolutely not. 3 weeks and counting.... and counting....
Taliq - did you catch MJ's speech yet? What say you?
phred - I agree (sort of) on what sort of quality of speech one would expect from a person who's a non-speech giver. Even so, MJ's has got to take the cake for the worst one ever. Self-absorbed, narcisistic, egomaniacal - these are just a few words that come to mind. He could have done better - if his ego wasn't in the way. Or if he actually cared about what anyone thought about anything other than him. Or if he was human. (I'm going with cylon on this one).
Posted by: justanothermambafan | September 15, 2009 at 08:50 AM
LOL Jamie- did you do that Back to the Future reference on purpose? LOL!
Posted by: justanothermambafan | September 15, 2009 at 08:51 AM
Co-sign w/Ex:
"I think that people hate the Lakers as an extension of the general disdain much of the country feels towards SoCal. The perception that we are not "real" sports fans adds to that."
The bigger perception is that we are not "real" PERIOD. I still remember going to other cities and folks not even speaking to me just because I was a California resident - not an LA resident, mind you, but a CALI resident. Folks watch too much TV & movies. Everything they THINK they know about us they learned from 90210 and/or Boyz N The Hood.
Posted by: utzworld - THE BANNER HOLDER | September 15, 2009 at 08:54 AM
With Sun's future, it's really not an either/or thing, where either the Lakers were right to let him go or wrong to let him go. Assuming he doesn't become a star- fairly safe because virtually every player who comes through the league doesn't become a star, and because he didn't seem to flash that sort of skill and/or athleticism- he can still go somewhere else and develop, while making everyone in the equation a winner.
The Lakers simply didn't have the room to let Sun, as much a "learner" to use PJ's words as anyone they could get, develop on their roster. There was no space, and more importantly, no playing time. Even if injury forced the Lakers into dire need at guard, they'd likely have to go out and sign someone with more experience and a more polished game, because they're trying to win games to win a title. Without drastic improvement, he simply wasn't going to play important, sustained minutes. They're not in a place to develop the kid.
With that in mind, given their payroll, the Lakers had to let him go. The financial implications of keeping someone who might only contribute in two or three seasons from now were just too high. Meanwhile, he can now go to a place where, maybe, there's enough room to let him learn and gain experience on the floor. Maybe he turns into a good or at least useful NBA player. Maybe not. But if he does, it doesn't mean the Lakers screwed up by letting him go. Von Wafer has become an NBA caliber guy, but (aside from our blog specific reasons) I don't think anyone really believes the Lakers made a horrible blunder in letting him go. You can't keep everyone, and if a guy's timeline doesn't fit into your team's, that can be enough of an impetus to let him go.
Hopefully Sun catches on. I tend to be skeptical, but he's certainly still an intriguing prospect with his length and age. Wouldn't surprise me to see NY take a sustained look.
BK
Posted by: Brian Kamenetzky | September 15, 2009 at 09:04 AM
Oh, I'd also disagree with the notion that fantasy players have a monopoly on bad or crazy trade ideas.
BK
Posted by: Brian Kamenetzky | September 15, 2009 at 09:21 AM
Bad news. I'm back from my summer hiatus, spent working on my posting weaknesses. I have a lot toctach up, not teh least of which is Taliq's new name.
As we approach camp opening, here is Lakers’ Question Marks Volume 1 - Andrew Bynum.
Heading into a new season, there are always a few question marks. Guys who make you nervous. Guys who you allow to raise your hopes beyond reason. Guys who have to step up their play, or prove a good playoff run wasn’t a fluke. Guys getting older, or coming off injuries.
The Lakers’ biggest question mark is Drew. I was an early Drew supporter, arguing in his first two years that his stats matched Garnett’s and Jermaine O’Neil’s in their first two years, and that his skills – being gigantic, having long arms, huge soft hands, good footwork, a nose for rebounds, a soft touch and being pretty athletic – would come to the fore. Of course, early in year 3 it seemed that they did and that Drew would be a monster.
But where are we now, after two seasons interrupted by injury? After it took him awhile to find himself last year? After he (politely) struggled in the playoffs? Now that he has to share the low post with Pau? I still see all the positives in Drew, but there are worries. Worry that lingering injuries, or the mental impact of his injuries, might take away his ability to play with athletic abandon. Worry that the loss of two key years in his development as a young player will hold him back from being what we all saw two years ago. Worry that his teammates may not trust him.
So Drew is both the guy I worry about and the guy who gives me somewhat unrealistic hopes.
Here is a range of outcomes for Drew.
1) The guy is just injury prone. In December, just as he starts to look comfortable on the floor again, he goes down again.
2) Drew is back, but either mentally or physically, he is not the same player he was two years ago. Not bad, just not dominant, not as athletic. He becomes a solid mid-tier NBA big guy.
3) Drew is healthy. It takes a few weeks of playing, but by New Year’s Day he is rebounding everything in sight, catching passes with those huge hands, taking his man to hole and providing a core to the defense. He becomes a top tier NBA center.
Case 1 looks a lot like last year. Gasol and Odom do their best to hold down the post with their long skinny bodies. Kobe is Kobe. And the Lakers are good enough to compete for a title, but it is a fight to get through the playoffs. Good enough to win, but also to go down in flames in an early round.
Case 2 is actually a pretty good case. The Lakers get a solid big guy who can play some post defense, have an effect on the boards, and score now and then in the post. Pau gets to operate more as a PF than a center. That would be a huge off season pickup. Not The Beast of blog legend, but a good NBA center who eats 30 minutes and provides size on both ends.
Case 3, of course, is the hope of all Laker fans. An anchor to a defense that has guys like Kobe and Artest on the perimeter. A rebounding machine. And, in a league with few true centers, a tough matchup most nights for most teams in the low post. Healthy, Drew is a bitch of a matchup, and if you double him, Pau and Ron Ron and Kobe become more dangerous. Drew has shown great footwork on offense. Now he learns good defensive footwork. His size, length and jumping ability make him, healthy, a great rebounder. We have seen that. And with his hands and size he could be scary in a pick and roll situation.
I hope for Case 3, which makes the Lakers very tough to beat. I still think it is reasonable. He is young and has a basket of skills you don’t often see. But the 2 injuries cast a cloud of doubt on Bynum’s future. This is the big question mark for the Lakers. There are others for future installments. But this is the one that makes training camp
and preseason interesting for reasons beyond keeping up with the stupid pronouncements of Artest.
Posted by: Tom Daniels | September 15, 2009 at 09:36 AM
justanothermambafan
yes, yes I did
Posted by: Jamie Sweet | September 15, 2009 at 09:44 AM
Justa- I was just explaining why I didn’t watch it, and probably won’t. So I don’t really have an opinion.
Why do people hate the Lakers? Cause we’re the best. I lived in SoCal for two years, and it hasn’t prejudiced me against the Lakers, who I think bring out the best in Southern Californians, kind of the opposite of what the Blazers to the P Towners.
Re fantasy teams- I’ve won a lot of fantasy league titles, a few of which even involved money, some of which I actually saw. Not to brag, I’ve also lost a lot, cause I play a lot of fantasy sports. Not nearly as fun as watching the Lakers win. How much money would I take to see the Lakers lose? Or the inverse, how much would I pay to see them win it all? Well, that’s a weird scenario. I mean, if I really had that power for one thing, it would take all the fun out of watching the Lakers play at all, and secondly, I’d probably just go the team and ask them for the money, so I could have my cake and eat it too. Yeah, that’s a cheat answer. But a weird question to begin with.
I hope Sun the best and hope he does well in NY, or wherever, but not too well. But, like Von Wafer and Trevor Ariza, if he really develops, heck, he can come back if wants to be on a good team.
Posted by: phred | September 15, 2009 at 09:46 AM
BK,
>>> Oh, I'd also disagree with the notion that fantasy players have a monopoly
>>> on bad or crazy trade ideas.
Never said they had a monopoly. Just said that I bet MOST of the crazy wild ideas came from bloggers who are fantasy sports players. Doesn’t mean that every fantasy player who blogs proposes crazy trades. Doesn’t mean we also don’t have some idiots as well as fantasy players. In fact, we probably have some idiots who ARE fantasy players. Fantasy players are probably the first ones to pull the trigger or get disgusted with certain players. After all, they ALL see themselves as genius general managers. If the shoe fits, wear it. Then don’t claim you don’t leave tracks. LOL!
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | September 15, 2009 at 10:09 AM
This is pathetic. The only reason ESPN did this story is to get L.A fans to purchase insider..Otherwise no one would even care.
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/news/story?id=4446526
Posted by: zen | September 15, 2009 at 10:16 AM
Tom D,
"Bad news. I'm back from my summer hiatus, spent working on my posting weaknesses."
That's not what the guys inthe pick-up game meant when they said to work on your post game.
Posted by: exhelodrvr | September 15, 2009 at 10:29 AM
Tom D,
Welcome back. Excellent analysis of the huge wild card that Drew represents for the Lakers. After two major injuries the last two years, Drew needs to finally stay healthy and play the entire season to show he is not injury prone, even though the two injuries were freak accidents.
I don’t really see the middle option being realistic as Drew obviously was still hindered by not having a chance to fully rehab his knee before returning late last year and by the bulky brace that he had to wear to protect his knee from further damage. Drew clearly showed before getting injured the last two years that he has the mental and physical skills to be a dominant center at both ends of the court. So in my mind, the big question is really only whether he can stay healthy. If he can, his play will soar.
The most exciting prospect for me this year is to see what kind of impact the addition of a healthy Drew at center and the muscle of Artest at small forward will transform the Lakers defensively. It is very possible that the Lakers might not only have three players – Kobe, Drew, and Pau - make the All-Star team this year but also three players – Kobe, Drew, and Ron - make the NBA All-Defense teams.
More: Drew, Pau, Ron, Lamar, and Kobe lineup. More Drew, Pau, Lamar front court.
DMWTT!
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | September 15, 2009 at 10:32 AM
Zen: Don't trip. It's BSPiN - Where East Coast Teams Are The Only Ones That Matter. Hating on LA is what they do best. Look at their dumb@$$ Boston vs. LA debate on who had the better winning decade.
Posted by: utzworld - THE BANNER HOLDER | September 15, 2009 at 10:44 AM
utzworld,
"The bigger perception is that we are not "real" PERIOD. I still remember going to other cities and folks not even speaking to me just because I was a California resident - not an LA resident, mind you, but a CALI resident."
Being born and raised in Southern California, I was spoon-fed the propaganda (from emigrants to California) that people from "the Heartland" of America are more real and less pretencious than Californias. I grew up with that insecurity, assuming that I was somehow more shallow because grew up in the California sunshine.
Guess what? That is all a heaping load of CRAP created by people with inferiority complexes who moved to California in an attempt to over-compensate for emptiness they feel inside.
At least in Ohio, people are FAR more pretencious, dishonest, shallow, selfish and cynical. It's crazy. Sure, there's pretension in California, but it's at least pretension about NICE things (like Porsches and such). Out here it's about pretension of owning a jetski or how much money you can blow in a bar because you just got a lot of overtime hours.
When people hate on Los Angeles, the Lakers and Southern California, it's all jealousy, insecurity, and over-compensation.
Sure Californians can me materialistic, over-sensitive, and neurotic at times, but, generally speaking, they are nicer, more optimisitc, more intelligent, better educated, more real, and display better creative decision making than most communities I've experienced in the United States.
What do we play for? RINGS!!!
Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.
GO LAKERS!!!
Posted by: Jon K. | September 15, 2009 at 11:19 AM
LakerTom
I think the folks at ESPN probably have the monoploy on crazy trade rumors. They even created a crazy trade rumor machine.
That Insider story on Ariza would probably make me a little sad so I'm kind of glad I can't read it. Right off the bat though, you can hear the cynicism of the business side of the NBA. "I figured my Laker situation might be temporary, so why buy?" Yikes! Whatabummer for a local kid who did everything he was asked to do and didn't get the happy ending he obviously craved.
C'est la vie en la NBA.
Posted by: Jamie Sweet | September 15, 2009 at 11:19 AM
phred,
I agree with you that debates about comic book characters are generally more valid than debates about NBA superstars.
What do we play for? RINGS!!!
Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.
GO LAKERS!!!
Posted by: Jon K. | September 15, 2009 at 11:28 AM
#4,
"But trust me, I'd love to have a 6'9 PG, because you just can't teach height. "
That's why Shaun Livingston is the Lakers point guard of the future.
What do we play for? RINGS!!!!
Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.
GO LAKERS!!!
Posted by: Jon K. | September 15, 2009 at 11:30 AM
Jamie Sweet/Humananomaly,
"Totally get the 'not peaking in high school physically' thing. For me it was agility and coordination that strangely manifested itself in my early-twenties."
Who actually physically peaks in high school? Humans of any race generally physically peak around 25 to 29.
What do we play for? RINGS!!!
Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.
GO LAKERS!!!!
Posted by: Jon K. | September 15, 2009 at 11:34 AM
to the caucasian K-Bros....
why is this allowed...
"S.U.N.= STUPID UNDERACHIEVING NERD.
Posted by: juanalacubana | September 14, 2009 at 12:09 PM"
to JunkfromCuba, a redundant word, you are describing yourself. Lotta anger built up inside you, go to therapy. What were your SAT scores, ever grad from high school, ever go grad school.....The majority of the regulars here are not idiots like you....get out of here, you don't belong, and your statement is probably racially motivated, because there is no player from CUBA, as far as I know in the NBA, So go back to the rock you crawled out from under and degrade yourself further, for you have already shown your stupidity.
Posted by: humanomaly (aka "The Anti-Crust") | September 15, 2009 at 11:36 AM
"Sun should fit perfectly in D'Antoni's system where defence is not a requirement. For all his supposed capabilities he plays absolutely zero defence!
Posted by: A, Cross | September 15, 2009 at 04:13 AM"....go to youtube, there are plenty of clips of him blocking shots from behind, why, cuz he got beat off the dribble probably, or he's helping out...everyone gets beat off the dribble with the no touch rules on guards.....there is also this concept called learning...he's played under numerous teams, with different teammates, etc.....on the Chinese National team, why worry about stopping the dribbler, when you have Yao and Yi back behind you....every team's defensive setup is different...and tell me, where in 28 minutes of QUALITY time did you see anything worth anything....get off his case.
Posted by: humanomaly (aka "The Anti-Crust") | September 15, 2009 at 11:43 AM
Zen,
The rest of the article basically tells his lifestory and how he became a low level prospect from New York to a surprising star in LA. Mostly known things except a few interesting snibbits from the negotiations he had with the Lakers.
"That script began to be rewritten at the toll of free agency, 12:01 a.m. on July 1, one minute into the day after Ariza's birthday. He was still celebrating with family when he received a call from his agent, David Lee. "He said, 'The Lakers called, and they think you're worth only the midlevel,' " or $5.8 million a year, Ariza recounts. Technically, it wasn't even an offer. Says Lee of the Lakers GM, "Mitch Kupchak's exact quote was, 'We want Trevor on the cheap, and we're not going to make an offer. Find what the market will bear and come back to us.'
Ariza was bummed. He'd been expecting something in the $7-to-8 million range, but he also knew the Lakers had committed $74 million to eight players, putting them well into luxury tax territory."
Kupchak insists he wanted the same thing: "It was our intention to keep the team together -- and that included Trevor." But free agency is a fast-moving target, and decisions need to be made. "Early on, we weren't able to agree on a deal," he continues. "If it doesn't look like things are going the way you want them to, you have to make a quick decision and go in another direction."
The feeling in some NBA circles is that Lee -- who had earlier been criticized for the public push he made to get another of his clients, the oft-injured Andrew Bynum, a max deal -- overplayed his hand in a down market. Still, the whispers are that only after talks hit an impasse and Artest became available at a bargain did the Lakers change course.
As at peace as Ariza appears to be these days, he hasn't quite let go of the events that led to his horizontal jump. "What was I supposed to do?" he says. "I didn't get an offer from the Lakers." He even claims he would have accepted the midlevel had it actually been offered. "Why wouldn't I? I love LA. I loved my teammates. I'd be closer to my family. It wasn't about money. I was offered more money than Houston gave me. The money will be there later."
Basically from his viewpoint the Lakers wanted him at the same type of money they had given Artest even though he was hoping for $7-8 million. He then decided to look at other offers as well. Mitch wanted to keep him but did not want to go through David Lee again and felt a better alternative in Artest who was more than willing to take a huge paycut to play in LA without haggling through if he was worth more. Cavs did offer the same kind of money (and opportunity to be on a contendor) but Ariza felt he could be better featured on the Rockets who won't have McGrady for a bit. In either case David Lee did not help out Trevor's desire to remain in LA with all the public talk he did.
The rest of the story afterwards is more of Trevor's hopes to have a successful career in Houston.
Posted by: KB Blitz | September 15, 2009 at 11:46 AM
Remember how Pau Gasol was complaining at the end of the year about how he was physically tired?
Ummm... so why is he playing for Spain again?
What do we play for? RINGS!!!
Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.
GO LAKERS!!!!
Posted by: Jon K. | September 15, 2009 at 11:51 AM
Brian K, thank you...
"With Sun's future, it's really not an either/or thing, where either the Lakers were right to let him go or wrong to let him go. Assuming he doesn't become a star- fairly safe because virtually every player who comes through the league doesn't become a star, and because he didn't seem to flash that sort of skill and/or athleticism- he can still go somewhere else and develop, while making everyone in the equation a winner............"
let's move on, he's gone,
any comments on Cobi Karl's loose lips to daddy???? My opinion was, fine if they hired him on staff. Phil Jackson's locker room is sacred ground. Obviously Cobi did not respect that. I hope he never gets another shot. The Lakers did George Karl a favor for carrying him as long as they did.
Let's move on....what's the roster look like now????
I say 65 wins...and #16.....
Jamie Sweet, thank you for understanding....I've been intrigued about physical maturity since like the 68-72 Olympics where Valeri(y) Borzov, the Russian sprinter who was in mid 20's blew away the American 19-21 year olds. Read an article about it as well. I also read an article once, I can't find it, about the high rate of blood presure problems in African Americans and how it related to the fact that the ones who survived the slave ship's had characteristics, which led to this current problem. Being a health care professional, but I'm highly distracted by racism against 2nd round draft picks that did not have their 2nd year option picked up (LOL), ...it seems to me that the phenomena would be the opposite. Ugggh.....I'm not thinking, I'm on vacation for 3 weeks.....
#4, nice to meet you....are you? (that initial rumor), because I remember Byron's first games as a Laker, boy he looked horrible, ....and he certainly had more than 28 minutes...and he certainly had more than 28 minutes....and he certainly had more than 28 minutes....and he certainly had more than 28 minutes.....and he certainly had more than 28 minutes...and he certainly had more than 28 minutes....and he certainly had more than 28 minutes....and he certainly had more than 28 minutes....and he certainly had more than 28 minutes.....get it.....anyway, people were dogging him out when his jumper did not fall....but eventually he caught on...given more than 28 minutes.....does help.....
Come on, I'll kill this blog, I usually do kill blog topics.....
Posted by: humanomaly (aka "The Anti-Crust") | September 15, 2009 at 12:03 PM
humanomaly-
"to the caucasian K-Bros.... why is this allowed... "S.U.N.= STUPID UNDERACHIEVING NERD. "
Because there's nothing in it that violates the LAT's standards and practices. We don't have rules against the creation of lame acronyms, assuming they don't contain buzz words or are blatantly offensive. This doesn't qualify. As for your implication in the question- pointing out that we're Caucasian- I'll leave that alone. If you think we show bias in how we moderate comments or in what we post, I'm sorry to hear that. I think we're fair, and always work with an eye towards sensitivity. But in this case, there's nothing that merits the comment being dinged.
BK
Posted by: Brian Kamenetzky | September 15, 2009 at 12:15 PM
The old format in Lakers blog is much better than this current one. It is nice reading all the comments then at the bottom you make a comment. No one reads the first comment anymore because it is way in the bottom for no one can see. Why change it when it was not broken?
Posted by: Staples 24 | September 15, 2009 at 12:19 PM
humanomaly,
Dude, why are you taking criticism of Sun Yue so fricken personally? You are being crazy immature about this and your continual line of making excuses for a player is obsessive and neurotic at best.
You two happen to share an ethnicity. So what?
It seems that you put Sun Yue's heritage well above his humanity which is just weird to me. I have not seen a single blogger focused on Sun Yue's ethnicity as you are. Everyone else is just looking at his ability; all your focused upon is his ethnicity.
Don't you think that's a little weird?
Now you're lashing out at the Kamenetsky Brothers for "being caucasian"? Huh?
Get ahold of yourself, man. You're starting to embarass yourself.
What do we play for? RINGS!!!
Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.
GO LAKERS!!!
Posted by: Jon K. | September 15, 2009 at 12:27 PM
This upcoming season could be the best ever season for the Lakers. Something that matches the the best seasons the Lakers had in the past.
So many great players in this line up.
Bynum, Gasol, Odom, Artest and Kobe.
This is a very exciting upcoming season, not just the Lakers are so good, but they have very good rivals to meet both in the East and in the West.
A Lakers/Celtics would be great revenge, A Lebron/Kobe would be awesome, a chance for the Magic to revenge against the Lakers, special.
A West Finals showcasting the two great NBA teams in this decade, Lakers/Spurs would alone be the real NBA's best Finals of the decade.
I hope no major injuries happens to any of the elite teams. Mano y mano, the best of the best.
Posted by: Staples 24 | September 15, 2009 at 12:33 PM
Humanomaly, meh. Byron was traded for Norm Nixon. Sun was a second round draft 'chance'.
Why do you care so much about this topic, more specifically, why do you care about my opinion on this? Are you trying to troll me?
Posted by: #4 | September 15, 2009 at 12:50 PM
I think Brown and Morisson will be important rotation player this year.
Sun will get his playing time in New York. Knicks running game will favor Sun in both offense and defense. His length and athletic ability, not much strength but speed, ball handling skills and quickness will make him a favorite of the Coach.
Wilson Chandler, Lebron James, Galinari and SunYue, all 6'8 on the perimeter, running and passing, rebounding and starting a fastbreak. D'Antoni never had long perimeter guys that can run and handle the ball.
Knicks, Lebron, China and D'Anotoni's running game!! That says it all.
If Suns got all the popularity in the dessert with Nash and Marion, what do you think will happen with this group if assembled.
Posted by: Staples 24 | September 15, 2009 at 12:53 PM
Tom Daniels............
Your off season post moves have just gone through the roof dude...
I loved that..Well done man...
You can also put me in the case 3 basket...Its really simple.If Drew gets back to that early season pre injury form...I fear for the NBA....Be afraid..Be very afraid..
Posted by: Thirty2 | September 15, 2009 at 12:59 PM