Phil Jackson talks with the media: Part III
In the first clip, Phil relays positive feedback on Andrew Bynum's offseason workouts and endorses his goal of an All-Star bid. Between Bynum, Pau Gasol, Lamar Odom, and Ron Artest, Jackson said this is the most talented frontcourt he's ever coached and the best grouping he can recall since the 1999-2000 Blazer crew (Sabonis, Grant, Sheed, Dale Davis). With that in mind, BK asked if we might witness the hard court union of Drew, LO and Pau, a trio that played together roughly zero minutes last season after an offseason's worth of getting talked up as a potential "triple towers" powerhouse.
"There's a chance. We're talking a little bit about a big lineup with Kobe (Bryant), Artest, Lamar, Pau, and Andrew. There'a a variety of guys that could fit into that. And also, those five as an overwhelming group that could do some things, and with the type of offense that we run, could function quite well without a point guard."
Intriguing words, to be sure, but I'd caution folks to take them with a grain of salt. Or at the very least, an attitude equal parts "geeked" and "grounded."
I agree with Phil that Kobe-Pau-Ron-LO-Drew could theoretically operate without a traditional point guard. Kobe runs the O as well as anybody and Odom has succeeded guiding the bench unit. Pau has outstanding handles for a seven footer and is arguably the league's best passing big. With his head on straight, Artest could occasionally take the reins (although as we saw during the Lakers-Rockets series, a little with Ron at the point goes a long way). But on the defensive end, there are legit reasons to question if the Laker length can conquer opponent speed (the way I imagine most teams would counter this alignment). And beyond simply the X's and O's, there are matters of practicality and moving parts to take consider.
With so much focus on the triple towers' failure to launch, it's easy to overlook the relative lack of minutes Drew and Pau actually played together. Socks missed about half the season with a knee injury, and during the bookending healthy sections, Phil typically teamed up LO and Pau more often, especially during the playoffs. Bynum noted during his exit interview that he and Gasol still to learn each other's game, much less learn how to best work their magic with LO in the mix.
Artest is learning a new system and new teammates, a process identified by Phil as the season's top priority. That learning curve will be be made considerably easier with everything humming on all cylinders. Derek Fisher's presence will probably help this task. Say what you want about Fish's increasing difficulties staying with the league's water bugs, but he's more often than not in the right place at the right time. Plus, there's the whole "LO, Drew and Pau haven't played together" element I alluded to earlier. The more dudes out there bumping heads, the tougher the process of integrating Artest- which is ultimately more important than nurturing the "Ed Jones" formation. Until Artest is up to speed, I'm guessing the looks for this group will be limited.
Bottom line? Kobe-Ron-LO-Pau-Drew is hardly a done deal. Mind you, I'm not saying it can't work and I certainly would prefer PJ give it a more extended shot than last season. Should everything click, I could absolutely see the results being, as Phil said, "overwhelming." But I would temper expectations and hope to be happily surprised, as opposed to waiting for Phil to deliver what he never promised in the first place.
From here, Phil notes how Jeannie Buss is a Twitterin' kinda gal and he... well... isn't. Hopefully, the relationship won't suffer. All joking aside, some interesting thoughts from PJ about social networking and new media in general.
AK
I don't think team speed on defense would be the major concern when using the Big 5 lineup. Lack of foot speed can be made up for with length.
The bigger potential concern with the Big 5 lineup is floor spacing on offense due to lack of outside shooting capabilities. I don't think Kobe, LO, or Ron are particularly good spot-up shooters; all three prefer to create their own shots. While we'd have a significant advantage in the post, I can see opposing teams just clogging the paint and daring us to beat them from the outside, which would negate our size advantage.
That said, we won't really know how the Big 5 lineup would work until Phil gives it a try in training camp and the preseason. It's definitely something worth experimenting with when the games don't count.
Posted by: EJK | September 27, 2009 at 04:16 PM
LAKER TOM VINDICATED!!!
What do we play for? RINGS!!!
Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.
GO LAKERS!!!
Posted by: Jon K. | September 27, 2009 at 04:31 PM
AK,
Outstanding post. I could not disagree with any of the points you raised and answered. More importantly, much as I love the topic, we’re not talking about mission critical issues such as how does Ron fit in and what Andrew will we get. All I want is for Phil to follow through and give the Big Five some shots to show what it can do. After all, it’s the ultimate little risk/big reward type of move.
But I am hoping we’ll see that lineup a for a couple of stints each game. We frankly have too many weapons and too much versatility to focus on just one or two lineups. Instead, I see our advantage being our ability to fluidly change in midstream as the game and player circumstances dictate. But the Big Five does make sense in that these are our best, highest paid, and most played five players. Seeing what they could do on the floor together is just common sense.
Everything for me prediction-wise starts with Andrew Bynum. I am assuming optimistically that Drew comes into the season loaded for bear and ready to earn his new higher salary. I think the team will share the shots pretty well and I expect Andrew’s ascent to the #2 offensive option be the result of his super aggressive attack of the offensive boards. I think we will see the Drew who dominated the boards before. That explosive leaping ability is what he will display when camp starts.
The super hops and great hands are what really sets Drew apart. Points on put backs will also STFU the critics who want Drew JUST to play defense and rebound. That is also the way that he will earn his way to closing games. The return of hops will also finally allow Drew to be the force he can be on the defensive end. He will become the heart and anchor of the Lakers defense this year.
This to me means that Drew is going to play just as many minutes as Pau, which means Lamar will need some time other than backing up Pau to be ideally utilized. This is where desire to see Lamar also get a chance to back up Ron and Derek as well, which I think we may see. Once we know how Drew is going to start out, we can adjust expectations accordingly. But we need the full Lamar.
The key issue in my mind is take maximum advantages of the five guys to whom you are paying the most money. That is Kobe, Drew, Pau, Lamar, and Ron. First of all, with four super talented front court players, I don’t see Luke, Josh, Ammo, or DJ really getting any minutes other than garbage. Why should they when our great four big men easily could cover the center and two forward minutes? There will be plenty of garbage time for them.
With Phil looking to play Derek somewhere around 24 minutes per game, that leaves a solid 24 minutes of playing time for Jordan Farmar and Shannon Brown to vie for. Here is where I would like to see Lamar Odom get some minutes because I think he is such a better player than those two. And I still think that it is not impossible down the line that Lamar could end up playing a lot more than a few minutes as the team’s point forward. One thing I expect from Lamar is more error-free play this year because he will be under no pressure as the #5 option and I think pressure is what wilts him. Being surrounded by better players also makes a big big difference in how guys perform. I look for a stellar year from Lamar where he starts to change people’s mind about him playing the point.
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | September 27, 2009 at 04:34 PM
Big lineup could easily work on offense. Kobe and LO are more than capable ball handlers and all five are good passers, Kobe, Pau, and LO being extra good. However, the big liability is on D. Who's going to chase Aaron Brooks and Chris Paul around the court? I'm sure Kobe could do it, but is that where you really want all his energy? Nope.
I do think Phil is going to have a bigger decision to make though if Andrew is healthy. Lot of talented bigs and little 4th Q pt. I could see Phil giving more PT to Bynum (if he can prove he belongs) because he is younger, it will mean more to Andrew, and it will keep Andrew happy. Pau will always be there and will most likely be there in the 4th during the playoffs.
It will be interesting to see where the focus is during the regular season. Are there going to be numerous experiments? If we have clinched home court and are in reach of 70, will we rest starters or go full force?
Lamar = Laker for Life
GO LAKERS
Posted by: mrbarneydangles | September 27, 2009 at 04:35 PM
Bid line up or small line... we need not worry... Lakers will repeat....
Posted by: colon health | September 27, 2009 at 04:44 PM
Right on with that there tip o the hat to ol "Too Tall.' Him, Tony Dorsett and the White brothers (Randy and Danny) were stars of a great Dallas team that often remains unappreciated when it comes to all time great football team appreciations.
And of all the many many things I have learned from reading the comments section of this blog, probably the first thing is that you can ever over criticize Luke Walton, and the second is that when Blitz, Hobbitmage or LakerTom says anything like "I am not going to get into a huge lengthy argument with you about blah blah,' hit the bathroom and make a run to the store for emergency rations, cause it's going to be a long time before anyone else gets a word in edgewise.
Posted by: phred | September 27, 2009 at 05:06 PM
I've been jonesing lately for teams news, etc... and have been rereading Phil's various books along with Lazerby's. Now, with these Phil clips and with training camp about to start, I can finally feel secure that the summer and the waiting is over. It didn't seem as long a period this year and I'm thankful for this blog. It filled a lot of spaces. I get the feeling that this will be an active year for Phil. He looks healthy and comfortable, the staff's a bit leaner without Rambis and there's also the addition of a maverick into the mix with Artest. This should be a really fun and maybe even defining season.
Posted by: dave m | September 27, 2009 at 07:00 PM
phred,
>>> And of all the many many things I have learned from reading the comments section
>>> of this blog, probably the first thing is that you can ever over criticize Luke Walton, and
>>> the second is that when Blitz, Hobbitmage or LakerTom says anything like "I am not going
>>> to get into a huge lengthy argument with you about blah blah,' hit the bathroom and make
>>> a run to the store for emergency rations, cause it's going to be a long time before anyone
>>> else gets a word in edgewise.
LMAO. Guilty as charged. I think that 2009 championship Lakerholics patch has completely worn off. I am now having to sneak quick sessions at the computer when Mrs. LakerTom is not home or looking. Even that desperate, I don’t anything to do with a Blitz vs. hobbitmage engagement.
- - - - -
BK,
Thanks for asking the right question of Phil. I wasn’t sure if that was you or not from the video. Also appreciated your response on the other thread. We see the same this issue pretty much the same.
- - - - -
Lamar,
>>> Asked if would consider producing a show with Khloe and Lamar, Ryan Seacrest replied,
>>> "I'm seriously thinking about it." –People Magazine.
You need to learn to say NO real fast, my friend. Best wishes but let’s keep things under control. LOL.
- - - - -
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | September 27, 2009 at 07:16 PM
I mean *never
not that there is anything subconciously revealing about my mistake.
Not to start any multiple paragraph disagreements with anybody, but in my observation last season the problem with the tall lineup wasn't defensive, as farmar and fisher, and in my opinion every pg, parker, brooks and cp3 included, can't guard the faster points with the current hand check rules, and yes i'm going to beat that cliche into the ground until people stop asking for a 'fast defensive pg' as if that will solve anything, but I digress.
the problem from last season in my opinion was offensive, as the offense was stagnant with both drew and pau inside. I think some of that has to do with weak outside shooting, and that's something artest brings that luke and trevor didn't last year, but it also has to do with the lack of coordination between pau and bynum.
For all the worries about his health, I think the main criterion of Bynum's effectiveness this season will be if he can learn to pass. Just my prediction.
And LakerTom, if you disagree, and bearing in mind that I don't regard this as a 'he can or can't pass' discussion, but just that I think his passing needs to improve, please bring some citations to the table, so we can actually learn something instead of regurgitating old arguments.
and it's been a long time since I've thrown this out there, but just a simple reminder as the real buildup to the season begins;
WE WON!
IT IS ALL ABOUT THE LOVE
GO LAKERS!
Posted by: phred | September 27, 2009 at 07:16 PM
and wow, upon rereading, the grammar section of my brain apparently shut down sometime earlier this evening, and I apologize most heartily, and hope that they aren't distracting anybody, about my poorly constructed run-on sentences. (yes, that's a joke)
Posted by: phred | September 27, 2009 at 07:18 PM
I know its crazy but i have a great idea . . .
we should just have kobe sit out the first month of the season!
it will give everyone else a chance to work the offense
and save kobe for the good parts of the season
Posted by: SA | September 27, 2009 at 07:40 PM
What’s this about Drew continuing to wear a brace – or even two? I thought he’d abandon the brace once the knee got healthy. How is this going to affect his lateral mobility and his leaping ability?
Posted by: Allnet | September 27, 2009 at 08:29 PM
phred,
Actually, I agree with you that Drew needs to become a better passer and that Drew and Pau need to develop a better chemistry when they are on the court together. I just happen to think the main reason that has not happened yet has been the interruptions caused by the injuries. They really have not had much chance to play together. Pau also sort of withdrew when Drew was breaking out which I think was just a temporary thing. I am looking for the day when Drew and Pau start playing volleyball between themselves with quick passes for dunks and hope it happens this year. They are both so smart and have such good hands that it is just a matter of time before they start to click.
I really don’t know what to make of Phil’s two knee braces comment other than to say it has to be a joking comment implying Drew just wants to avoid getting hurt again. For one thing, nobody I ever knew talked about a knee brace to protect against the sublimation of his knee cap so why would they think one would help now. I am sure it was just a joking reference that fell flat and was not explained. Drew hated the brace and I think it really undermined his confidence that his motion was physically limited. I can’t see him seriously wanting to play with TWO braces. That is just crazy.
Are you ready for a Lamar and Khloe Reality Show? I’ll bet Phil will kill that idea in a flash. LOL.
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | September 27, 2009 at 09:17 PM
Allnet & Tom - I also found the comment curious but agree that it was probably just dry humor. I seem to remember hearing that the staff wasn't wild about that bulky brace contraption and that it was more a matter of Drew feeling that he needed it. Having injured both knees on back to back seasons has probably messed with his head to an extent. Maybe he can just use a simple knee sleeve this season (or nothing at all).
Posted by: dave m | September 27, 2009 at 09:47 PM
First and foremost I hope that the Andrew Bynum that LakerTom has created in his head is the one I get to watch this season. I fantasize about the possibilities of the AB in LakerTom’s head and LO being in his own head playing the “big” lineup. Anyone who wrote they hope LakerTom’s AB fails is the same as the people who hope Iraq or our economy fails because they don’t like the President. We are all Laker fans; I HOPE that Andrew becomes the one in LakerTom’s head.
Saying that, I have to make some points:
AB has never “dominated” the boards, not like LO has. He should never be #2 as long as Pau is around, or at least not anytime soon. If you are going to throw it down low, Pau is more efficient, he can make the right play. Like phred said- “For all the worries about his health, I think the main criterion of Bynum's effectiveness this season will be if he can learn to pass.” Wouldn’t it be easier for AB to “go get the offensive rebound” or to “get more put backs” by crashing the boards after someone else shoots? Even more reason for him not to be the 2nd option.
Last but not least; you make your points about all the things he can do, but not about all the things he needs to not do. Let’s start with all the dumb fouls he commits, and being lost all the time. He needs to learn how to pass better and make the right decision. What does money have to do with it? If that was the case then maybe the Knicks should have built the team around the crazy web-cam guy last year.
Posted by: NBA4ever | September 27, 2009 at 10:56 PM
Kobe's work ethic is unbelievable. We admire Kobe's offensive skills now, but what happens if he added more weapons to his arsenal? Check this article out, at the bottom
Kobe Working out with Hakeem "The Dream" - http://tinyurl.com/kobe-hakeem
Ooooooooohhhhh.... Can't Wait to see what he learned!
Quazzar
Posted by: Quazzar | September 27, 2009 at 11:59 PM
Kiwi...
The reason i bought the topic about Bell up was because Sasha will cost the Lakers 10mill regardless..It actually works out to 20mill because of the Luxury Tax...He has 10mill reaming on his contract...Next season the Lakers wont be under the cap..Thats 20mill that he counts against the cap for 0% shooting..
I think those numbers are correct,if not feel free to throw rocks or fire other weapons at me....Im in a bunker with a riot shield...Remember?...
Posted by: Thirty2 | September 28, 2009 at 01:45 AM
AK,
"Geeked and Grounded" is a great name for a TV program. But I can't decide if it should be a sitcom or a reality show.
Bynum's needs to decide what to do sooner when he has the ball; he is too deliberate, which allows the defense to double on him/get into the passing lanes. Once he gets a little quicker with his decision making, I think the passing will be fine.
Posted by: exhelodrvr | September 28, 2009 at 05:54 AM
from: http://tinyurl.com/ye7jhgm
According to reports over the weekend, the E! channel agreed to pick up the $1 million tab for the wedding only if it was staged by Sunday.
It appears the channel wants to open the new season of "Keeping Up with the Kardashians" in December with a show about the wedding.
Problem is that Odom, who just signed a new $30-million NBA agreement and reportedly wants a prenup with Khloe, didn't give the lawyers enough time to draw up papers.
So yesterday's "wedding" may not have been legally binding, according to reports.
In the works is a plan for a post-nup that will keep the marriage from being official until both sides sign.
The wedding was something of a last-minute deal. Bruce Jenner, Khloe's stepfather, learned about it from the radio, listening to Ryan Seacrest's show.
hobbitmage says: He rushed the wedding, so E! would pick up the tab.
That is just sad. It also explains why the kids weren't at the wedding.
What's Love got to do with it?
What's Love, but a second hand emotion?
On the other hand, he doesn't have to miss any basketball time to deal with
his budding reality TV show. Shades of the "Big Pompous One".
Posted by: hobbitmage | September 28, 2009 at 07:18 AM
I agree with those, including AK, who think that Fisher's decline is greatly exaggerated.
Look, Fish could never keep up with the quicker guards in the league. Look at Iverson when the Lakers played Philly in the Finals. He ate Fish alive and earned Tyron Lue more non-blowout minutes than he had seen all year.
Throw in the handcheck rules and not only Fish but almost any quard in the league has trouble with quick, penetrating guards. It becomes all about help defense. And the Lakers help defense last year was not too sharp. Bynum was at half speed, and did not take away the middle, and while Kobe and Trevor are good defenders, they also gamble and cheat on defense and are not always the most reliable help guys.
Fisher shot poorly in the early rounds of the playoffs. It was a poorly timed slump. But his regular season numbers were a hair better than his career averages, and by the end of the Denver series and then in the Finals he was back on track. I expect the same old Fish this year, just in limited minutes.
Posted by: Tom Daniels | September 28, 2009 at 07:42 AM
NBA4ever,
"AB has never “dominated” the boards, not like LO has. He should never be #2 as long as Pau is around, or at least not anytime soon. If you are going to throw it down low, Pau is more efficient, he can make the right play."
I agree with this assessment. Pau's game is more mature than Drew's at this point. I would surely love for AB to take his game up a notch but not at the point of sacrificing Pau's production. I am hoping that the 2 of them can learn to play off each other.
Posted by: SamLL | September 28, 2009 at 08:53 AM
I don't think that LakerTom has thought through the implications of his Big 5 lineup. Who would the opposing team's PG cover? My guess is Kobe. If Aaron Brooks or Rajon Rondo is guarding Kobe, how often do you think Kobe would end up posting up? Really, if this lineup were on the floor, not only would Drew have to share the post with Pau, he'd also have to share it with Kobe. And Drew's rebound totals would drop as well. Are you sure you want PJ to use this lineup LakerTom?
Posted by: giantsquid | September 28, 2009 at 09:42 AM
Most interesting bit to me was talk of Andrew/Farmar possibly getting an opportunity to finish games as opposed to assuming Artest just slides in and grabs the spot left by Ariza on the finish 'em off team.
While I'm a lil peeved that Farmar is being given this consideration, I'm hoping it's an indication that PJs gotten a pre-training camp glimpse at these guys and thought to himself wow these guys really have put in work in the off-season, perharps "bynum/farmar" pairing really is the future
Posted by: Segeboy Formerly Known As Taliq | September 28, 2009 at 10:11 AM
And oh ... did the wedding actually happen over the weekend or not?
Posted by: Segeboy Formerly Known As Taliq | September 28, 2009 at 10:12 AM
I guess it did ... http://tinyurl.com/ybupamt
Congrats Odom ... welcome khloe to the laker family ... pls do remember that the sheriff's office will rule in favor of Odom should any domestic disputes arise, so play nice
24 + 16 + [1]7 = The Purple Tinted Golden Age
Posted by: Segeboy Formerly Known As Taliq | September 28, 2009 at 10:22 AM
Tom Daniels,
"I agree with those, including AK, who think that Fisher's decline is greatly exaggerated."
To clarify, that's not exactly what I meant in this post. In praising Fish's ability to operate within this system, know his spots, anticipate well (which, by definition, makes life easier for everyone, including newbie Artest), it shouldn't be overlooked that I do think Fish needs to be playing fewer minutes. He's entered the tail end of his career and on most teams, possibly wouldn't start and definitely wouldn't play starter's minutes. That he kept playing 30+ was more indicative of Farmar/Brown not being able to take away a large chunk of his minutes last season than Fish "proving the ageists wrong."
That's not to say he isn't a solid starter for this particular (i.e., very talented) team, nor to discount his contributions in the Finals. But all things being equal, the best situation for the team and Fisher would be him playing in the mid-20's. It would both help keep Fish fresh for the playoffs (where he's obviously proven himself) and the organization get a better idea of Brown and/or Farmar moving ahead. But that can only happen if somebody else steps up.
AK
Posted by: Andrew and Brian Kamenetzky | September 28, 2009 at 10:36 AM
Quazzar,
"Monday Los Angeles Lakers star Kobe Bryant was in Houston for a two-hour workout with Olajuwon.
Olajuwon said Bryant reached out to him for help with his moves in the post.
"He gave me the biggest compliment," Olajuwon said. "(He said) You are the best (at the) mid-post and post move.
"He wanted me to show my moves to him."
Olajuwon said his style of play in the paint is really suited for a guy like Bryant.
"In my mind most of my moves for a guy (with) that agility can use it better than the big guy," Olajuwon said. "Because my moves are not really for the big guy.
"It's for the guards and small forwards. So he would benefit most on the post because of his agility.
"It was so much fun because how he picks it up. I worked with him for two hours, step by step."
Olajuwon expects Bryant to be even better than he was last season when he led the Lakers to the NBA Championship.
"Adding those moves to his game, watch out for him this year," Olajuwon said. "I understand his dedication. His desire to win and stay on top.
"That's what I respect most about him."
By the way, Olajuwon said he would never have held one-on-one sessions like this if he was still playing.
"You don't want to give them your secrets," Olajuwon said."
Wow. And we both know that Kobe will obviously share those moves with Andrew, Lamar, and Pau, right?
Time for some good old fashioned optimism.
This one's for you, Phil.
http://tinyurl.com/2922tx
Be patient with this one. The end's worth the wait.
What do we play for? RINGS!!!!
Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.
GO LAKERS!!!!
Posted by: Jon K. | September 28, 2009 at 11:29 AM
Oh excitement! Can't wait to see if they trot the Triple Towers out in a few more pre-season games than last year (1).
Anyone planning on going to the pre-season game at the Forum? I'm putting together a group of my family and friends (all Laker fans, of course) to say "Howdy" to the old girl one more time. We'll be hitting a bar near there prior to game time, so maybe, if you're planning on attending lemme know and we can hook up at a local watering hole and get our Laker on.
I expect Phil will be a bit more creative this year as opposed to last. Last year was about redemption, showing our trip to the Finals and subsequent Boston neat-down wasn't just a flash in the pan, but a foundation to build on. Consider the building built, now we need to accessorize!
I'm talking craftsman style house here, somethin you'd buy for dear old ma. This year, we have the big target on our jerseys (the royal we) and I look for Phil to change up his game plan a little more for a few reasons.
1: Keep opponets guessing. If you have to prepare for the Triple Towers and focus less on, say, stopping Kobe that is a strategic benfit gained without even unholstering the weapon, so to speak.
2: No Kurt, Kurt seemed to handle a lot last year. Not sure if Phil was giving him the room he craved, saw that in order to keep him engaged he had to do more or what, but I got a gut feeling that we'll see a little more organized chaos as opposed to last season.
3: Keep the players engaged. It will be a grueling season, folks, heart-breaking losses to sub-standard teams will leave an even worse taste in the fanatics mouth, maybe trotting out an un-orthodox line-up will help foster creativity in the players themselves.
Personally, I'm for whatever works. The only thing I know is that i want our five best guys on the floor in crunch time and that will mostly be predicated on match-ups.
So soon I can taste it.
GO LAKERS!!!!!
Posted by: Jamie Sweet | September 28, 2009 at 12:59 PM
Taliq...Thanks for the link..
The winner from those photos will have to be a dead heat between Baron Davis and Luke Walton...I think Baron may just be a head by a nose hair...
Damm is his missus hot.....WOW..
Posted by: Thirty2 | September 28, 2009 at 01:17 PM