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What if Michael Vick played basketball?

Thursday night, the Philadelphia Eagles signed former Falcons QB Michael Vick. 

I am not among those who thinks Vick should be banned from the NFL for life, or wasn't punished. He did terrible things, but went to jail and paid fully the penalty assigned to him by our justice system. I'm not talking about probation or house arrest. Vick went to big boy jail, and stayed for a long time. Not long enough for some, but hardly a slap on the wrist. As a GM in the NFL, I wouldn't have done it, but don't object on a moral level that the Eagles came to a different conclusion.*

But as a fan, would you want him? If Michael Vick was a point guard instead of a quarterback, would you be accepting if the Lakers brought him to LA? What if you knew he could improve the team, helping provide depth behind Derek Fisher at a position of relative weakness for the champs?

To some extent, Lakers fans have already dealt with some of these issues after the team signed Ron Artest. I'm not comparing the Palace Brawl, which was neither premeditated nor ongoing, with Vick's history of dogfighting, but it was nonetheless a terrible incident and a black eye for basketball (for which, it should be noted, Artest paid a major price.) Artest has also had issues involving dogs, though he's been forthcoming about his errors and has worked hard to make amends.  Again, I'm not equating his offenses to Vick's, only noting that Artest comes with baggage and controversy attached.

Despite that, Lakers fans have been generally accepting of him, both because many think (correctly, I would argue) Artest has paid his dues since The Brawl, but more importantly because he can help the Lakers win another title. And that, more than anything, is the motivation for fans. Manny Ramirez was welcomed back with open arms because he makes the Dodgers better. Rams defensive end Leonard Little killed a woman in a drunk driving accident over a decade ago, but was welcomed back by fans in St. Louis because he became an incredibly productive player. 

But where is the line? If you knew Michael Vick, or some NBA player who commits a serious crime down the road, could help your team, would you cheer for him? Would you stop buying tickets? Stop watching games on TV? Going back to the previous question, if Vick was in purple and gold to play point guard, would you be accepting? Does it matter if he's been punished by the justice system? By the league?

In a perfect world, we want our teams to win titles with a roster of saints and matinee idols. Unfortunately, none of us is pristine, including our athletic heroes. Portland fans disliked their JailBlazers of a few years back, but would they have felt differently if that group won titles? Would Bengals fans, who have watched what seems like an every-hour-on-the-hour parade of arrests in the past few seasons, be on board anyway if there were Lombardis to go with it?

I'd love to think I'd draw the line and would stop supporting my squads if they stacked their rosters with too many players of ill repute, but am self aware enough to realize that the line isn't as static as I'd probably like.

BK

*My problems with signing Vick are based in part because of his crimes, but are more a football question. I don't think Vick was good enough earlier in the decade to make it worth the trouble. Check out where he lands on the list of career QB rating. The career completion percentage (53.8) scares me, too. Given that he wasn't a terrible accurate QB before, will his throwing and running skills be as sharp after a couple years behind bars? I wouldn't have been the one to find out.

 
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I'd love to think I'd draw the line and would stop supporting my squads if they stacked their rosters with too many players of ill repute, but am self aware enough to realize that the line isn't as static as I'd probably like.
BK
A MASTERPIECE! I SALUTE YOU SIR!

Well, fans excuse athletes and coaches who abuse their spouses, who cheat on their spouses, who drink and drive, who use PEDs, who father multiple children out-of-wedlock with multiple women, who cheat on their taxes, who walk out on contracts they signed, who fake injuries, who don't give 100%, who throw towels at their coaches, who go behind the coaches back to the owner to get the coach fired, who flip off fans, who violate gun laws, who traffic in narcotics, etc. (And this doesn't just apply to sthletes, the same is true for celebrities in other fields.)

If you want a team made up of "good guys" and not necessarily the players who will do the most to help your team win, that is certainly your right as a fan. It would be helpful if you list your "forever unforgivable" actions, which ones merit second chances, which ones merit third chances, etc. Just be consistent.

I would like to see TO box. And Jeanie would hide her pups!

There is a difference between someone doing something stupid, irresponsible, and/or impulsive and someone doing a calculated, conscious, sadistic act of illegal cruelty.

There's a HUGE difference.

People make mistakes.

Serial killers torture animals to death for pleasure and/or to "feel like a big man."

In my moral world, drunk drivers and people who get into impulsive fist fights are not even on the same ethical planet as torturers and sadistic killers.

What do we play for? RINGS!!!

Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.

GO LAKERS!!!

BK,
I agree on your analysis of Vick the player. Overall, IMO a little above mediocre as a QB. The defenders in the NFL are too athletic, the defenses too well-designed, and opponents too well-scouted for a QB whose major weapon is running to be one of the top QBs. That doesn't mean he couldn't win a Super Bowl, if playing on the right team. But that style does put a ceiling on the performance level he will be able to reach.

I think that Vick could be an excellent offensive weapon, as a secondary option, but at this point in his career I don't know that he is worth gambling on as a starting QB. (That would apply to his subsequent contract, not this 2 year deal.)

The management needs to decide if the distractions are worth the potential payoff; there is certainly nothing wrong with them making a business decision that it isn't worth it.

I wouldn't have wanted Artest if it were the season immediately after the brawl. But now enough time has passed and he has fully demonstrated his ability to be responsible. Besides, the brawl is not nearly in the same category as Vick's horrific behavior. I'm glad now that Artest is a Laker.

I'm not saying Vick should be banned forever. But he needs to demonstrate that he has changed as a man before putting on an NFL uniform. The suit Vick wears in the 60 Minutes interview and his serious demeanor demonstrate nothing.

There are still those who hold the Colorado incident against Kobe. I am not now nor have I ever been one of those people. The case was settled and sealed and the matter is closed. A court of law never found Kobe guilty of anything. During the trial, Kobe upheld his responsibilities to the team and the fans. I am proud that Kobe is our team's leader.

Michael Vick's case has been through the legal system. But the court of public opinion must still be convinced.


IT IS WHAT IT IS
They jailed him and flailed his reputation to nothing, But after what he did they had to do something
So they put him away and what do you know, He took it like a man while they took all his dough.
He did’nt plead or whine or try to use his fame, As they cast aspersions all over his name
I love animals most people do, but do you eat meat or wear shoes, Well do you?
Have you ever seen how food you eat is slaughtered, before you judge Vick, I think that you aught to.
The man served his time and paid a high price, Does he have to keep paying for the rest of his life
We just had a bandwagon to pray for a dog, it just shows the compassion here on the Laker Blog.
Is not a man entitled to the same regard, or in this case is your heart so hard.
We watch mixed martial arts where they are savage as can be, And a lot of us watch that with glee.
Sure the dogs did not choose to fight, But maybe the folks that did it didn;’t know it was not right
I know I will be attacked for my views, Trying to defend Vicks actions you can only loose.
But the man did his time and he paid the price, So why not let him get on with his life.
I know the dogs can’t get on with theirs, and for all that died they have my prayers
What we are talking about is a Man and humanity, If you are perfect raise your hand and let me see


*
HAPPY BIRTHDAY MAGIC - BANDWAGON
*
(01) XYZ - OWNER - happy 50th birthday to my basketball hero.... earvin "magic" johnson.... you truly are magic in every sense of the word...
(02) JON K – DRIVER - Magic, you taught me how amazing the game can be! Thank you! Happy Birthday
(03) MAMBA24 - Happy Birthday to the greatest Laker in history – If you are the greatest
Laker that automatically makes you the greatest player in NBA history .
(04) # put me down for Magic's 50th! You know I'm down to honor the greatest player ever. Michael who?
(05) EASTCOASTJESSIE - First and foremost, happy birthday to Magic Johnson*
(06) SIR CHARLES - Happy Birthday Magic!
(07) JESTERGURU - Put me on the Happy Birthday, Magic Bandwagon! He has been and always will be the king of inspiration.
(08) PUDDLE - Earvin, happy 50th to the greatest PG and greatest Laker that ever lived. May we Laker fans never take you for granted!
(09) KB BLITZ - Happy Birthday to Earvin "Magic" Johnson. The best Laker of all time. Enough said.
(10) SAMLL - Happy birthday, Magic! His game was always a joy to watch and I missed it when he had to retire due to HIV. I'm glad that he's still around.
(11) LAKESHOW8976 - Happy 50th man! You made me go liking basketball to falling in love with it
(12) SBPIMP - 1980 Finals MVP, despite the fact that his teammate, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, was the league MVP that season. Can you remember the last time a ROOKIE won Finals MVP, let alone on a team with that much greatness already on it? 12 NBA seasons, 9 NBA Finals appearances. Will the league ever see this kind of dominance again? Magic Johnson was the greatest for one simple fact: he lived up to the hype, moreso that any other player in history. People knew he was going to be great from day one, and he delivered from day one - Finals MVP as a rookie?? Are you kidding me? Happy Birthday Magic, the Greatest Of All Time. May you see many more!

I can't belive anyone would sign this scum bag. He needs to be put in a ring with a hungry/crazy animal along with all his thug/loser cronies and ripped to shreds. People like him are the downfall of American dreams. He does not deserve to get paid the money he gets paid. He deserves to live in a ghetto packing guns and worrying about which drug deal he can make along with all the other good for nothing ghetto trash that are out there doing it. He does not deserve to be on television gaining celebrity and fortune. Anyone that can do what he did to those animals goes to show the total lack of humanity/compassion/goodwill/role model. The list goes on and on. I hope this guy gets taken down, obviously the judicial system has failed as well as the football leagues that only care about money. Rot in hell you sicko, you deserve nothing and you know it!

Rick-

I understand that sentiment for sure, but that's tough, too. What does it mean to demonstrate remorse? How do you differentiate between someone who is genuinely remorseful and a good actor who wants to get back into the league and will do and say what's necessary? How long is enough time?

That's why I don't have a problem with a team signing him. If they think he's genuine, they can take the leap and either reap whatever rewards are available or suffer the consequences if he's not. He paid the penalty society set for him, and will soon pay the one the NFL sets. That's enough for me, in terms of his eligibility.

But I think your perspective that you haven't seen enough makes sense, and is obviously shared by a lot of people. And like I said, I wouldn't sign him.

Ex-

People forgive that sort of stuff in regular, non-famous life, too. Particularly for talented people, or those they love. One of my least favorite qualities of modern media is the joy we often seem to take in cutting people down, and thrashing them while they're there. Not to excuse Vick in the slightest, because he's at the far end of the spectrum of athlete/celebrity offenses because of the horrific nature of what he did, but when athletes mess up, there's a little too much enjoyment in ripping them down. Often it's deserved, but sometimes it drags on too long. Speaking generally.

BK

BK

We're only human and we all make mistakes. Some graver than others.

Vick not only deserves a second chance but I think he's been put to the fire by a country that's ok with its vice president accidentally shooting a person while trying to kill a bird but finds it despicable that dogs are put in a cage and made to fight to the death. But hey if you've got the right licenses/permits you can put 2 humans in a cage, call it ufc, and ask them to beat each other to near death.

Justice is not an easy destination to get to so I wont pretend to have all the answers. I used to think it was unfair that wall street execs get house arrest for stealing millions while a young black man gets 30 for a 3rd strike and stealing a radio, yet maddoff gets 150yrs for stealing billions and I can't help but think wow, that's kinda unfair, all he did was steal from a bunch of rich folks. Perharps cuz I break the law everytime I fire up 420 (btw I'm quitting this weekend), or ditch work to blog on here (fraud?) I'm in favor of 2nd chances.

Anywho this is one of those conversations that a phd thesis could come out of so lets just simplify it as: If the crime doesn't involve serious/permanent bodily harm to another human being then it should be high on the priority list of 2nd chances. Vick gets to play in the nfl again, I say his jail time (especially being a first time offender) shouldn't have been as much and for all the dog lovers out there a civil suit should have been filed with the verdict being something like he pays 10% of his wages for the next decade to a dog shelter provided he's making enough to feed/clothe his own family (i.e. if he didn't get an nfl contract and was making $9/hr, cut d dude some slack). For the sake of completeness, since I touched on Madoff, I'd say 15yrs in jail and seizing all his assets including an future assets that mysteriously appear out of nowhere.

A life is a terrible thing to waste ... let us not be hasty in throwing another man's life into the bin just to satisfy our ego's demands for punishment

The sort of animal abuse attributed to Vick—not "just" dog fights, but true torture—make accepting the NFL on this issue, hard.


Poor judgement can be worked through, finding pleasure in making a captive creature suffer is not going to go away (it's a lifelong thing). Look for another NFL black eye from Vick.


As to the fantasy question, I doubt the Lakers (or NBA) would risk the wrath of their fans on the torture issue. I'm not sure I understand why the NFL and Eagles are taking the risk.

Let's face it, Michael Vick is now being well-coached on what to say. The proof will be in his actions in the coming months and years. Second chances, maybe, but where were the second chances for the animals that he was involved with in dog-fighting? In fact, those animals had no second chances. If they couldn't compete well, Michael Vick, himself was involved in cruely punishing them, killing them in some cases. If Michael Vick was truly remorseful and contrite, I would have liked to have heard him saying he was very sorry for the actions he took, not that he just 'made a horrible mistake.' I feel his horrible mistake was getting caught. He wasn't sorry until after years of dog-fighting he was convicted, after he lied about ever being involved.

Yes, Michael Vick paid his 'debt,' but if he is truly remorseful, he would not only make a few PSA's about animal cruelty, he would contribute half of his $1.6 Million to animal related charities, and let's not complain about his millions lost. If he succeeds, he will make $millions more, a lot more of a second chance than most, and a lot more than a convicted felon should receive.

In his off-time he should be required to work at an animal shelter, maybe cleaning out the crematorium, and realizing and truly facing the second chances those animals will never receive.

Ed Kane, Ph.D.
Seattle WA

The Eagles obviously have a good PR team. Attention they want, and attention they are getting.

Taliq-

Not to turn this into a forum on dogfighting, but while you make some points about second chances that I agree with, comparing UFC to dogfighting isn't an apples to apples deal. People choose freely to go in and fight, with an understanding of the consequences. Dogs don't have that choice.

And this from a guy who has no love for UFC. Can't get into it.

But the larger question is still out there (to others, I mean): If Vick could help the Lakers, would you want him on the team?

BK

If you have ever wondered what lies beneath the scum at the bottom of a pond, rejoice: its name is Michael Vick. What this punk did is not excusable, not ever. He did not, as some pundits declare, "make a mistake". What he did was to "do his thing" for profit, and his thing was to subject animals to unfathomable pain and suffering before executing them as inhumanely as he could conceive. No rationale, no conscience, no remorse.

This piece of dirt does not "deserve a second chance". Most people do not even get a first chance to become a multi-millionaire "Sunday entertainer. The public doesn't demand pro sports players to be saints. But it should demand that they be reasonably decent human beings. There will always be dirtballs, cheaters, liars, drug users, wife beaters, etc. that get second chances - how else could Michael Irvin have gotten a job at ESPN - because some will conclude that they're "just like me". But nobody, at least no one you know (I hope), will ever equate themselves with Michael Vick.

The Eagles made a mistake and will no longer have me to cheer them or watch any game in which they are involved. Organizations that campaign against him will benefit from my support. And I will pray this piece of excrement fails miserably in his "second chance" and in all other endeavors.

mamba24,

Put me on the happy bday magic waggon. sign it "Everytime I call kobe the greatest, shhh respect ya elders they say. I didn't really get to see you play nba ball, but I've seen u do your thing off the court and ain't no doubt that u ball with the best of 'em. As a black man you inspire me to not only better myself but my community as well"

24 + 16 + [1]7 = The Purple Tinted Golden Age

Showtime ain't gonna have squat on what the latest generation of purple and gold is about to do to the league. Our time is here. MAMBA baby.

mamba24,

"IT IS WHAT IT IS"

Dude sometimes I think you're reading my mind ... outfreaking standing

BK,

Re the new format, would it be possible to have a link to the "last" page of comments? The way it is now, we have to go to the bottom of the comments, click on "Next", and repeat until we get to the last page.

Hey, shouldn´t Magic Johnson, the greatest PG in NBA history and a Laker icon deserve his own thread in this blog in his 50th birthday?
Anyway, happy birthday Magic and thanks for everything!!!!

I am a big believer in redemption.

About ten years ago my hometown newspaper published the names, pictures and home addresses of registered sex offenders, and I have not subscribed since.

I found out that a dear relative of mine had done some terrible things in his past, things that made people wonder how I could be around him. I was lucky enough to have 20 years with him. He was the most decent, soulful, and level-headed man I ever met, and he was sincerely regretful of the things he had done and tried to do what he could to make amends later in his life. I miss him to this day. I shudder to think of what I would have missed out on had I been controlled by the same lack of compassion that gripped some of my family.

The beauty of our legal system is that it is entirely predicated upon what you do, not what kind of person you're perceived to be or who your father was or what race you are. Michael Vick committed a terrible series of crimes, and was convicted of them and served his time. He paid his debt to society. He now deserves a chance to prove that he's learned, that he's moved beyond his terrible actions and become a better man.

Would I root for him on my team? It would entirely depend on whether or not I felt like he was honestly contrite. To be honest, I haven't paid much attention, because I'm not a fan of football, so I haven't seen the interviews thus far. I will certainly be rooting for him as a person, though, and hoping that he'll make better decisions this time around.

BK,

"People choose freely to go in and fight, with an understanding of the consequences. Dogs don't have that choice."

LoL. I guess Paris Hilton's dog gets to decide whether it' going to be dressed in pink/blue.

Anyway to answer you question, if Vick was a good pg and we didn't have shannon brown then i'd sign him. But since we've got our pg of the future in brown, I'm cool. So I'd make an official press statement saying animal curelty is not something we tolerate as a franchise, then i'd go hunting with my friends to celebrate the new ad space I sold at staples to some animal loving organization. That's how i'd play it.

But hey I was born in africa where we still can't figure out how to feed starving children. Dog fighting wouldn't garner any media attention, except it was to tell folks they could make some dough by betting on some dog that's been on a vicious winning streak.

Like mamba24 said ... if you're not a vegetarian then getting self-righteous on the topic of Vic is like going "look I shouldn't go to jail for murder, I hired a hitman to do the job" ...

John K / R. Friedman,

Being a dog owner myself, I am in no way advocating dog fighting but try to think about it from Vick's perspective. Dog fighting was part of the culture he grew up in. It's no different than someone who grew up to enjoy hunting. I find hunting reprehensible, but it would be narrow minded to suggest that people who hunt are scumbags that do not deserve to live. They were simply taught from an early age that shooting defenseless animals from a distance is a fun and normal activity. Vick broke the law and has paid his dues. He deserves a chance at redemption.

Good Morning Everyone...
Cheers man...I think its safe to say i would love to wish Magic Happy Birthday..

A 6foot 9 point guard...are you kidding me...That could play every position on the court....Give me a break...And nearly averaged a triple double through out his playing days ....As if.....If you didnt enjoy this human being then you need to go to your doctor and get a sick notice and stay home fora few days on really heavy medication...Or get your friend to come around with a baseball bat and give you a couple of smacks in the head...

Ok ...I have decided to give the Vick thing a miss ....I trying to protect my mental space for the day....

lmao ... Richardson got traded again!!
http://tinyurl.com/lwg3ed

FYI, dog fighting was a common activity in the "Old West" and on the American frontier. (Read "Call of the Wild" by Jack London, for a description of it in the mining camps of the Alaskan Gold Rush.) So are all the pioneers who took part in that scumbags, too?

Just remeber what vick was charged for. Funding a dog fighting ring.

How would you like to be judged forever by the worst thing that you ever did in your life? Some of us get caught and some of us don't. Vick got caught and what he did thoroughly disgusts me, but he's been convicted and punished by the laws of our society. He now deserves a second chance, otherwise why let him out of prison.

If we all agree to play by the rules then we've got to agree that the rules include the system of justice and punishment established by society. If we refuse to follow these rules and deny those who have served their sentences an opportunity to reestablish themselves within our communities then we are no better than the unpunished criminals still on the street who continue to ignore the law.

As a fan would I want him on my team? If he could make the team better I would. Would I cheer for him? If he made the team better I would. If he was a more capable point guard than Fisher and Farmar would I want him on the Lakers? Yes, with the caveat that I would trust Dr. Buss, Mitch and PJ to determine whether he would affect team chemistry in a positive or negative way. Once again it goes back to what makes the team better.

This doesn't mean I have to like Michael Vick as a person, but then I don't know him as a person. What I don't like is what he did but I've done plenty of things myself that I don't like and I'm sure that just about everyone I know has done things that I don't like, some of them quite disgusting as well.

This shouldn't be about Vick's past actions, he's paid for those with time out of his life that he'll never get back. The objective now is to reintegrate him into society and since he's an athlete, he should be allowed to once again pursue a career in his chosen profession. What he did wasn't a crime against sport, as least not anything that I would call a sport, it was a crime against the society to which he's paid his requisite debt.

I think that most people who say that they would not support a Michael Vick kind of guy if he were on the Lakers are deceiving themselves. I have no respect for Vick the person, and if nobody gave him an opportunity to play again I would shed no tears.

However, fans support the players on their teams, and generally do so unconditionally. Case in point: Dodger fans reaction to Barry Bonds versus Manny Ramirez (this is not analogize between steroids and dog fighting, but to point out the hypocritical reaction of fans). I'm kind of doubtful that if Michael Vick could have defended the small forward position in the 2007 Finals, Laker fans might have loved him.

I don't want to dig up dirt from the past, but who among us currently hold Kobe accountable for what he did in Colorado? A civil suit for sexual assault may soon be filed against one of my favorite new Lakers (Shannon Brown). We don't know what happened or didn't happen in these situations, but I think it is fair to say that most people on this blog are more tolerant of accusations like these against the likes of Kobe or Shannon than they would if the same allegations were made against, say, Paul Pierce.

These guys play a sport, and when they play it well for a team we love, we embrace them; despite their flaws. It isn't condoning their personal behavior; it is isolating what might be despicable behavior off the court, and focusing on what they do for us on the court.

Is that shallow? Perhaps, but we all do some version of this, whether it is our favorite sports team or our preferred political party (where adultery can be the basis for immediate disqualification when it is practiced by the opposition party, but COMPLETELY ignored when the douchebag is YOUR douchebag). I'm not saying it's right; I'm just saying it is....

seriously people? lets really take a moment to actually digest what some of us are saying... I myself am a dog lover (especially shit zu's)but in reality Mike Vick is a human. A human who served his time and who is apologetic (now whether he is sincere you will never know but I believe him as well as the Philadelphia Eagles). Now a direct respond to "Ed Kane" from a previous post....so what..? Do you think that felons are beneath the non felons of the world population? He and every last felon in the world is still a person and has served their time (and yes alot of them end up back but guess what thats something they have control over so if he goes back...which I seriously doubt..like 100% its on him). Its so Ironic how other athletes who will remain nameless are put on murder trials, convicted of DUI's involving killing PEOPLE and everyone looks the other way. But when Mike Vick (an extrordinary quater back..and all you haters know it that's why you are hating)fights dogs its the biggest taboo in the world?! omg seriously? I mean, you people who think that he is such a horrible person please..like a previous blogger said (kinda).."you better be a veggie eater that walks around barefoot!" because animals are slaughtered everyday to make up that big mac you scarffed down or to be molded into your leather gucci shoes or bag...and for the guys your leather car seats!!!!

He paid the time for his crime. I would even suggest that had he been white the situation of redemption would be played out on a much larger scale. Vick did horrible things and only time will tell if he is a changed person. Welcome back to society Vick. Don't blow it. Remember the humbleness of walking through the tunnel of your new team and out onto the field. This is grace.

Today I've been thinking...

Kobe Bryant = Lakers Point Guard of the Future.

So, if that was the case, who should we (and reasonably could) get as shooting guard?

What do we play for? RINGS!!!

Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.

GO LAKERS!!!

By the way, the fact that we are no longer able to separate paragraphs with an empty line completely sucks.

It looks awful, makes posts more difficult to read and minimizes a writer's ability to use formating in conveying his or her message.

What do we play for? RINGS!!!

Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.

GO LAKERS!!!

Ok ...I have decided to give the Vick thing a miss ....I trying to protect my mental space for the day....Posted by: Thirty2 | August 14, 2009 at 01:03 PM

NOW THERE POSTS A WISE MAN.

Cry me a river people. Vick served his time hard and is being given a second chance. He doesn't owe it to anybody to prove whether his regrets are contrite or remorseful.

Even goddell is walking a fine line. Yes nfl is a business so as his employer he has a right to impose a however many games suspension and make sure vick can walk that straight line but that's about it... even goddell better not play god and neither should anyone else around here

We place far too much importance on these guys already. I would accept him on my team, so long as he changes or is trying to change.

But to keep everything in perspective, he plays a game for a living. A game. Why he or any athlete are so revered as pinnacles of morality or most loathed human beings on the planet speaks volumes about how misguided our society has become.

Sheriff whats up with the new name. Not that I don't like it, it's smooth, but just wondering bro.
*
HAPPY BIRTHDAY MAGIC - BANDWAGON
*
(01) XYZ - OWNER - happy 50th birthday to my basketball hero.... earvin "magic" johnson.... you truly are magic in every sense of the word...
(02) JON K – DRIVER - Magic, you taught me how amazing the game can be! Thank you! Happy Birthday
(03) MAMBA24 - Happy Birthday to the greatest Laker in history – If you are the greatest
Laker that automatically makes you the greatest player in NBA history .
(04) # put me down for Magic's 50th! You know I'm down to honor the greatest player ever. Michael who?
(05) EASTCOASTJESSIE - First and foremost, happy birthday to Magic Johnson*
(06) SIR CHARLES - Happy Birthday Magic!
(07) JESTERGURU - Put me on the Happy Birthday, Magic Bandwagon! He has been and always will be the king of inspiration.
(08) PUDDLE - Earvin, happy 50th to the greatest PG and greatest Laker that ever lived. May we Laker fans never take you for granted!
(09) KB BLITZ - Happy Birthday to Earvin "Magic" Johnson. The best Laker of all time. Enough said.
(10) SAMLL - Happy birthday, Magic! His game was always a joy to watch and I missed it when he had to retire due to HIV. I'm glad that he's still around.
(11) LAKESHOW8976 - Happy 50th man! You made me go liking basketball to falling in love with it
(12) SBPIMP - 1980 Finals MVP, despite the fact that his teammate, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, was the league MVP that season. Can you remember the last time a ROOKIE won Finals MVP, let alone on a team with that much greatness already on it? 12 NBA seasons, 9 NBA Finals appearances. Will the league ever see this kind of dominance again? Magic Johnson was the greatest for one simple fact: he lived up to the hype, moreso that any other player in history. People knew he was going to be great from day one, and he delivered from day one - Finals MVP as a rookie?? Are you kidding me? Happy Birthday Magic, the Greatest Of All Time. May you see many more!
(13) Segeboy - Everytime I call kobe the greatest, shhh respect ya elders they say. I didn't really get to see you play nba ball, but I've seen u do your thing off the court and ain't no doubt that u ball with the best of 'em. As a black man you inspire me to not only better myself but my community as well"

lmao ... Richardson got traded again!!
http://tinyurl.com/lwg3ed Posted by: Segeboy Formerly Known As Taliq | August 14, 2009 at 01:07 PM

Come on Segeboy Richardson's not a bad baller. A lil one-dimensional, but that one dimesnsion is Hell!
Larry(Mamba24)

Cry me a river people. Vick served his time hard and is being given a second chance. He doesn't owe it to anybody to prove whether his regrets are contrite or remorseful. Even goddell is walking a fine line. Yes nfl is a business so as his employer he has a right to impose a however many games suspension and make sure vick can walk that straight line but that's about it... even goddell better not play god and neither should anyone else around here
Posted by: yellofever | August 14, 2009 at 02:11 PM

In those words one can see a great man. Kudo's bro!

My two cents...

Like many people, I was disgusted by Vick's participation in dog fighting and felt he deserved jail time. His behavior was unacceptable, arrogant, and, considering all he stood to lose, beyond stupid. But I also think that once a man gets out of jail for however long declared appropriate by a court of law, he should have an opportunity to redeem himself within society. I actually find that aspect to be very important.

Jail, theoretically, isn't meant to serve simply as punishment. It's meant to also provide rehabilitation. Obviously, the desire to change and live a more productive, constructive life lies first and foremost in the criminal's hands. But to some degree, that can't happen unless society wholeheartedly allows him that chance. Without some degree of leeway, the odds of failing increase dramatically. If Vick's actually seen the error of his ways (and during the press conference, he certainly sounded like he has), then I believe it's important that society allows him a chance to prove it.

Mind you, that doesn't mean automatic "acceptance." Along those lines, I think the NFL made the right move allowing Vick to play- Dude's paid an awfully big debt by now- but I also wouldn't hold it against any GM if he said, "He can do it for another team, but not mine." Again, acceptance isn't automatic, and for a team, employment is essentially a form of acceptance. If not necessarily for Vick as a person, then certainly for all the drama that potentially comes with signing him. If a franchise isn't ready to accept Vick, I certainly understand why. Being allowed to play is one thing. Getting the invitation to do is another, and if that invite never came, I wouldn't feel that bad for Vick, because his situation is his own doing. I just don't think the opportunity should be denied.

So, to address BK's original question, would I be thrilled if Vick was the new Shannon Brown? Honestly, I would need some time to warm up to it. Maybe a fair amount. And I'd be lying if I didn't claim mixed emotions would run through me every time I felt the urge to cheer a good play he made. But I'd likely still root for him in as neutral way as possible, since his success equals the Lakers' success, and I wouldn't want the other players to suffer because they were given a teammate with a checkered past. I would also do my best to remain as objective as possible, because if Vick is consciously working to be a better person, neither one of us benefit if I actively devote anger towards him over his past.

Like BK, I'm also skeptical how good Vick will actually be (a large reason I also wouldn't sign him), but that's a separate issue.

AK

Manny is an adult who chose to take a drug that breaks a rule in his sport. You think that's comparable to Vick torturing animals, or Little committing manslaughter? Yikes.

mamba24,
"Come on Segeboy Richardson's not a bad baller"

And that's why it's so funny that he's been traded 4 times already. At this rate he'll end up back in nyc before the season starts.

Vick was convicted and served his time. Some of you act like he should be burned at the stake.

I am a Rams fan and if the Rams had signed Vick (which was rumored to be a possible destination for him) I absolutely, positively, would have been done as a fan of the Rams until Vick was gone and the team ownership, and coaching staff that had made the decision to bring him on had changed. Vick is a despicable human being.

Same goes for the Lakers. If Vick or some other person who had tortured and killed dogs like this scumbag did had been signed by the Lakers, I would be done with them too.

AK,

I think you make some valid points, but considering that in this economy it is difficult for us "average joes" to get hired if we have the slightest besmirtch on our record (e.g. questionable material on a Facebook account, DUI convinction, etc.); however, this punk tortures dogs, gets a felony convinction and is quickly reinstated and hired for major money.

Something about that seems fundamentally wrong.

What do we play for? RINGS!!!

Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.

GO LAKERS!!!

At least this is a lighthearted topic which we can all agree upon....

Helllllll No i wouldn't want him on my team. Beating some guys A** for throwing you a cup is one thing, but knowingly and willingly harming dogs is whole different problem. I mean you have to be seriously ill in your mind if you could basically slaughter dogs for the joy of it or even for money. Dogs can't reason they will do what their owners ask of them. These Dogs were just innocent victims. There's no excuse for what he did. People are in prison for life for killing other people. Most of these are drug dealers, gangsters who killed OTHER gangsters and drug dealers. In the end, although their crimes were still bad, at least their victims had it coming on some level. However, what did these dogs do to deserve to be killed? Micheal Vick should have stayed in prison longer, and no I wouldn't have wanted him on our team even if his presence guaranteed a championship.

Vick as a QB was seriously overrated. He had nice throwing power and a better scrambler than Donavan McNabb but while he was fairly accurate he was nowhere the caliber of a Brady or a Manning. The Falcons are way better off with Matt Ryan even if the whole dog thing never had happen.

As for the issue even though I personally would be appalled at the idea of Vick wearing purple and gold hey as long as it wins a championship many fans wouldn't mind really (though some will never forgive him for his dog fighting scheme). Many fans outside of LA still knock on Kobe about his incident in Colorado (whether true or not he still did a naughty thing) yet Kobe got the 2009 title so we can see beyond that. Many of us were knocking on Ron Artest during the Houston series but hey now we got him what matters is that he wins us a title. Outside Chavez Ravine Manny gets booed a ton but Dodger fans still cheer for Mannywood even though Juan Pierre did great as a starter.

Point is if that person gives them success and wins titles, hey the saying is that winning covers up a multitude of sins. What Vick did is unforgivable yet if he wears purple and gold and does good and is a key member of the title run hey most Laker fans would see beyond his dog fighting even though other teams would boo him considerably. The same holds true if he leads the Eagles to a title should Donovan McNabb get injured again and Eagle fans would look beyond his baggage even though other NFL teams are just wanting to put him on a stake.

As long as you win, hey that will help to put the mistakes of the past away (not completely though but enough to get you back on track).

Pamela,
"Manny is an adult who chose to take a drug that breaks a rule in his sport. You think that's comparable to Vick torturing animals, or Little committing manslaughter?"

If someone who works in your industry commits a crime that is not directly related to the work you do, should they be permanently barred from working in your industry?

Do you think Vick should be allowed to work at all? Or is the NFL the only business he should be barred from?

Is the feeling the same about people who take part in cock-fighting? Should they be barred for life, too?

"But where is the line? If you knew Michael Vick, or some NBA player who commits a serious crime down the road, could help your team, would you cheer for him? Would you stop buying tickets? Stop watching games on TV? Going back to the previous question, if Vick was in purple and gold to play point guard, would you be accepting? Does it matter if he's been punished by the justice system? By the league?"

That's a lot of questions, but I'll summarize my feelings as concisely as possible.

In essence, I have no problem with the Lakers hiring any player that is eligible to play. If they're not in jail or suspended by the league and the front office thinks it would help the team win, far be it from me to be upset that their moral code does match mine. I may prefer that they hire players of "good" repute, as it reflects well upon the organization as a whole and is better for team cohesiveness, but I certainly don't expect any athlete to adhere to the same moral code to which I do, therefore, I trust the front office to make decisions that will best help the team win. After all, isn't that their job?

Moral code *does not* match mine. Grr. I hate finding errors AFTER the fact.

Pamela-

I can see by the phrasing why you'd think I was lumping them together or creating a sense of equivalency, but that wasn't my point. What I'm saying is that athletes do things all the time that offend sensibilities, rules, and laws to varying degrees, and the moral outrage expressed by fans often is related to whether or not that player is on their squad.

Fans tend to cut their guys more slack if they help the team win. That's what I was getting at.

BK

This could be the most polarizing debate of all time. Pretty much either you hate Vick or you are of the opinion that he deserves a second chance. Before taking sides, let's just keep in mind the fact that you can't compare apples to oranges? But objectively you can declare that a honeydewmelon is bigger than an apple or a grape. If Vick's crime is an orange, then Stallworth's problem is more like a county fair pumpkin, right? I mean clearly there's a grey area here. Is Pitino's transgression worse than A-rod's? Or what about the athletic trainer for the Lakers, didn't he get into a domestic dispute with his wife? That happens everyday and is more understandable, right? Wrong!

Remember what they say about casting the first stone, sinners? Many of us have probably been over the alcohol limit once before while driving home from a bar, a friends, or even our kids football parent party once before in our lives. Shame on anybody who is smiles at this admission. Well Stallworth got caught in the worse case scenario, so did Vick, and so did Pitino with the whole Abortion thing 'while I'm cheating on my wife and kids'. HOW THE HELL IS THAT OK. NONE of its ok. Are they all devils, absolutely not. They are human beings that are supposed to be held to a higher standard. And they should all be publicly flogged, fairly in a manner that fits the crime, and then given the opportunity to DO BETTER.

Vick could play for the Lakers. If the guy served his time, that he SHOULD HAVE GOTTEN BY THE WAY, but after that let him go about his business. Stallworth should have gotten more time obviously, but the point is, anybody who makes a comeback has an uphill battle ahead that is as big as Lebrons ego. Vick knows one mistake and he's gone. Each failure or loss is going to be blamed on him. If Vick and others like him, want to gather themselves after doing prison time and have the perspective of nobody is going to stop me from accomplishing my dreams, hey good luck is all I can say. As long as he's helping others and is making the world a better place while in that process, stop judging like your God himself. In fact if your going to judge him like he's the devil, then you should take that same judge and jury to Pitino the baby killer, or Stallworth the father killer. Right?

Happy B-Day to Magic Johnson. My favorite player of all time.

There's been a lot of great posts on Micheal Vick. I'm on the 'Vick paid his debt and deserves another chance' side of the argument. I'm actually going to be pretty happy to see him back on the field. That guy was a once in a lifetime type talent. I hope he's still got it. He's only 29, he got plenty of rest, it'll be fun to watch.

If someone who dogfighted and went to jail for his crimes became a Laker, and had the type of impact that Micheal Vick has on football games, I would accept him and cheer him on without a doubt.

Go Lakers!

did this Vick guy shake hands at the end of the game?

if he did, bring him on.

we need a guy who knows what a " dog fight" is against the celts and broniacs, spurs and whoever barks on the other side.

It's really a question of personal animosity versus principle. The principle here being the rule of law. Now I don't always agree with the law and I often don't agree with the degree of punishment meted out for breaking the law, but I do support the principle of the rule of law. I don't expect my personal moral code to be perfectly reflected in the laws that society chooses to enforce nor how they choose to enforce them. However, I do support and defend the U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

One of the rights of citizens specified in the Constitution is commonly called "ex post facto" and requires those found to be criminally negligent to be punished by the rules established at the time of their crime. This means that you can't change the rules of punishment after a crime has been committed and further implies that no additional sanctions should be incurred after the sentence for criminal behavior has been served. In other words, everyone has to play by the same rules and the rules can't be changed after the fact.

Those who agree with the principles expounded in the Bill of Rights shouldn't let personal animosity get in the way of enforcing the laws fairly. Unfortunately this isn't always the way it works in our society. A justice system where justice is proportional to how much money you have is obviously imperfect. A system of incarceration that emphasizes punishment over rehabilitation obviously has it's problems as well, as evidenced by the high rates of recidivism and the fact that we incarcerate a larger percentage of our population than any other country in the civilized world.

Nevertheless, even an imperfect system must be respected if we expect to have any system of justice in place at all. To deny those who have served their punishment a place in society, or to allow them to be discriminated against upon their release, defeats the entire purpose of the rule of law.

For those of you who think Vick's actions are morally unforgivable, I hope you feel the same about other types of animal abuse.


- Anyone who has ever eaten meat has indirectly supported the torture and killing of intelligent animals. All meat eaters must be horrible human beings.


- Anyone who has enjoyed horse or greyhound racing has indirectly supported animal enslavement, torture and murder. All fans of horse racing should be burned at the stake.


- Anyone who has gone to Sea World supports the enslavement of animals for our precious entertainment. If you have a ticket stub from Sea World, go jump off a cliff.


- Anyone who has ever gone fishing for pleasure is a cruel human being that gets off on torturing inferior animals. You all should be sent to the plank.


If Vick's actions towards animals are morally unforgivable, than so are ours. Vick grew up in a different culture that most of us. He grew up in an environment where dog fighting was the norm. It's no different than someone who grew up hunting animals for pleasure, or someone in ancient Rome who grew up getting their thrills from watching enslaved gladiators chop each others' heads off. Were all the Romans who attended the Coliseum evil? Of course not. They simply grew up in an environment that taught them morals that are different than our own. Is Vick "evil"? I have no idea what Vick is like as a person, but I will not be so quick to judge someone who grew up in a different world than my own, and I hope someone does not judge me for the same reasons.

my question is: what Kobe things as a fan of the Eagles.

will he be able to concentrate to make him team better and win another ship?! :)

if Vicks would have the Nike's PR system working, no one would ever find out about the tape with dog fights.

bad agent. ask Ariza how will end.

Mamba...You wise old man you....

Hope all is well...can you please put me on the Magic bandwagon....Thanks man..

"I am a Rams fan and if the Rams had signed Vick (which was rumored to be a possible destination for him) I absolutely, positively, would have been done as a fan of the Rams until Vick was gone and the team ownership, and coaching staff that had made the decision to bring him on had changed. Vick is a despicable human being." Posted by: Bopper

Quite an interesting take from the fan of an NFL team that welcomed back to their roster a man (Leonard Little) who actually killed another human being. Your continued support of a team with a man who has killed another person suggests that your rhetoric about Vick is a tad overdone, and it absolutely proves the point that this issue has nothing to do with morality and everything to do with what jersey the bad guy is wearing.

I keep hoping to come back to the blog and find they came to their senses and adopted a more readable layout.

Guess this is like LOCO.

BloRO.

Blog Redesign Omniwatch.

Oh, Michael Vick and any other person involved in dog fighting rots in hell. And while they're above ground, should be made to fell like they're in hell on earth.

Any Eagles fan shall rue this day. They are heretofore the Clippers of NFL.

my question is: what Kobe things as a fan of the Eagles.

will he be able to concentrate to make him team better and win another ship?! :)

Posted by: ouchhhhhhhhh | August 14, 2009 at 04:58 PM

Interesting Laker tie-in!!

I dunno, I'm kinda tired of this whole Vick thing. Everyone's going to have their opinion, many are going to disagree with each other. I realize there just isn't any Laker news, but still, I'm not sure I care enough about this whole Vick thing.

...and trust me, i am as deeply disturbed by his actions as anyone, but I think its going to play out whether we like it or not.

htj,
You might want to check the definition of "heretofore."

Hell nooooooo

Yes - cockfighting and dog fighting are the same bad trouble.

Yes, exhelo, the miners of Jack London's books who fought dog against dog are the same bad trouble as today's dog fighting fools. Where in the last day did you lose your superbly functional brain?

I do not consider myself an animal lover, but by no means do I hate animals. Having said that, I can't wrap my mind around the actions of Vick. I suppose some of you guys can separate the athlete from the animal torturer. Everyone deserves a second chance, even a third if necessary. But I still my mind can't handle the images. Maybe it's just the mother in me.

mamba,

u are the great one.. we are not worthy!

and pls get me on that magic bandwagon pronto. dont nobody EVER forget how many rings the magicman brought us. 5 baby!!

Otis,
You're probably including your great-grandparents/great-great grandparents in that group who liked dog fighting/cock fighting. Or in England where they would put a rat terriers in enclosures with several hundred rats, to see which dog would kill the most rats. I am not a fan of dog fighting, and have no problem with Vick's conviction and penalty. I'm just pointing out the inconsistency in the arguments, and acknowledging (as others have also pointed out) that that is ingrained in some cultures still today, and was very common in the past, including in the cultures of our ancestors.

One more note on the new blog layout. I feel like the reader comments are given the back seat now. We're so bunched together that the format is not exactly conducive to leisurely reading. I think aesthetically it's nice because it shows how many bloggers are participating--like ants on a popsicle stick--but it creates a feeling of huddled masses. And the comment box above reader comments doesn't seem right. Why would I comment before reading what the community has to say?

Otherwise nice.

Wes

BK:
I liked a lot of your thoughts, because it is a difficult subject. Many athletes are despicable human beings, as are actors and filmmakers and accountants and so forth. While every profession has its bad seeds, with athletics and the performing arts, it's a little different because they're SO in the public eye, and require fans.

I'll be honest, I'm a fan of the Lakers, but I'm not a fan of Kobe as a person. That doesn't mean that I don't want him to succeed as a player, because success for him means success for the team. And when he does something like throw a fake shot off the backboard so he can get his own rebound and put it in, I'll watch it a dozen times on my Tivo, whistling every time. But when the Finals are over and he's jumping up and down, let's just say I don't have the same warm and tingly feeling I had for him before Colorado.

You mention stopping being a fan if the roster was stacked with no-goodniks. How many players is "stacked." Four? Three? I remember having fans turn off their sets when we signed Rodman. I know people who stopped after Colorado. It's hard for me to stop because I've been swimming in purple and gold since the early '70s. The first game I ever attended was Game 19 of the Streak of 33. It would take a blasted chain gang for me to turn from the Lakers, especially as long as there are players like Fisher on the team.

I know I'm rambling because I really didn't think this through before I started writing. But I guess my answer is, the Lakers to me isn't the current roster of players. It's the entire history of the franchise. And as long as they don't defile the game while they're on the court, I'll root for them, regardless of how many ex-felons they field.

But my rooting stops when the final horn sounds.

Quite an interesting take from the fan of an NFL team that welcomed back to their roster a man (Leonard Little) who actually killed another human being. Your continued support of a team with a man who has killed another person suggests that your rhetoric about Vick is a tad overdone, and it absolutely proves the point that this issue has nothing to do with morality and everything to do with what jersey the bad guy is wearing.

Andrew, one difference. Leonard Little killing someone was an accident, and no I do not condone it but you can not get around the fact it was an accident. I guarantee he did not plan to kill someone that night. However Vick would intentionally hang dogs around there necks to kill them if they were not good fighters for him. Disgusting. He should not have the privelege of playing in the NFL. He should still be in prison.

Exhelo,

I don't think the cultural argument holds any water, because the bottom line is that Vick willingly engaged in activity he knew was illegal. Even if cultural surroundings led Vick to think it SHOULD be okay (although during his presser, he said he eventually realized it was bad, but didn't have the guts to get out), he was perfectly aware dog fighting wasn't above board. Now, if Vick thought it was unfair that dog fighting was illegal, fine. Lobby Congress to change the laws. Speak out in an attempt to legitimize it. But until then, you can't use "culture" on any level to justify partaking in an activity forbidden by law.

AK

AK,
"But until then, you can't use "culture" on any level to justify partaking in an activity forbidden by law."

I'm not using culture as an excuse for people to take part in illegal activities. The point is that people who are raised where something is "OK" look at that thing differently, even when it is illegal, then people who are raised in a different environment. That comes into play when judging the motivation of someone, and the subsequent "contrition" or lack thereof.

And the context of an individual's culture is certainly taken into consideration in our justice system when the penalty is being determined.

Ex

Okay, I see what you're getting at. Basically, the idea of how somebody feels morally about breaking the law, depending on his environment and upbringing, correct?

AK

AK,
I think there are two basic questions here: the legal and the moral/ethical.

Legally it is cut-and-dried; Vick was guilty. He paid the legal penalty. Whether it was too stiff or not stiff enough can be debated, but he clearly paid the legal penalty, and the league is clearly within it's legal rights to let him play again.

Then there is the moral/ethical aspect. From this aspect, should he be viewed in the same light as someone who was raised in an environment where dog fighting was considered to be beyond the Pale, and yet was corrupted to the point where they became avid participants? I don't think so; here I think the individual's environment should be considered, and it's not so "cut-and-dried".

I think the problem is that fans regard athletes as heroes and role models. They are like anybody else. They just happen to be athletically gifted. Why can't we appreciate athletes for what they provide us and that is entertainment, and not add other more noble characteristics to them? If we did that, it wouldn't be such a big issue. It wouldn't be considered such a huge moral issue every time an athlete made mistakes. Maybe instead of trying to change everyone else we should look at changing ourselves and our value systems. We place entertainers on moral pedestal that they never earned.

Happy Birthday Magic. I owe thanks to an incredibly inspirational individual. You made me realize that losing is not an option, and all dreams are possible. You showed me to take one day at a time and do your very best, live life with passion, dignity, and charity, and with a smile from ear to ear. Thank you.


John K / R. Friedman,

Being a dog owner myself, I am in no way advocating dog fighting but try to think about it from Vick's perspective. Dog fighting was part of the culture he grew up in. It's no different than someone who grew up to enjoy hunting. I find hunting reprehensible, but it would be narrow minded to suggest that people who hunt are scumbags that do not deserve to live. They were simply taught from an early age that shooting defenseless animals from a distance is a fun and normal activity. Vick broke the law and has paid his dues. He deserves a chance at redemption.


Posted by: LAKER TRUTH | August 14, 2009 at 12:54 PM

================
I agree and salute to you for stating the obvious. Seems to be cruel and unsual punnishment in continueing to punish offender when debt to society has been met. If he did the crime and did the time let him be. I would think if you disagree then show your displeasure by not watching his events, or buy his merchandise or boycott the leauge he plays in. I would think if he played basketball and could help yes then hire him. The ones that don't agree will taunt and boo him anyways.

A few things, Kobe's name shouldn't even be mentioned to the extent of Vick, who is guilty, Kobe on the other hand is a man who cheated and got caught. Name a guy who hasn't cheated on his wife??

Another thing, would I want Vick, a player for the Lakers if he could be that depth we need at PG and help the team win? well yes, dogs are animals they have no free will but so does cows, goats, pigs, turkeys, chickens but we as america slaughter them everyday to be sold for money, you don't see those who do that for a living go to jail.Yes we need food to eat and survive but those that we eat are animals with no free will who probably don't want to be eaten. What Vick did was wrong, he paid his time and to me thats where the story ends on his dog fighting. Vick has a life like we have a life and has the right to make an honest earning so if he was gonna play for the Lakers, I'd have no problem, just make sure you don't suck.

"

Today I've been thinking...

Kobe Bryant = Lakers Point Guard of the Future.

So, if that was the case, who should we (and reasonably could) get as shooting guard?

What do we play for? RINGS!!!

Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.

GO LAKERS!!!

Posted by: Jon K. | August 14, 2009 at 01:48 PM"

Jon K., only TODAY you've been thinking???? Just kidding. I think the move would work because Kobe is such a great court leader now. He's shown it over the last 3 plus years that he is probably the tops in the league at it. Maybe 10 years ago when he was the young kid (KB8), the vets would tune him out, especially with all the infighting when shaq was on the team. KB24 playing point the way he does could extend his career, he wouldn't have to fly thru the lane to be effective. Assuming Lakers are still using the Tri-Offense, the need for a conventional 2 guard would be lessened. The player would have to be a decent outside shooter, actually be a 2-3 type player, as Kobe is, should have excellent ball handling skills as well, to help KB and LO bring the ball up the court...and knowledge of the offense would help, I think the obvious choice is out there and would be available....Smush Parker.....JUST KIDDING!!!!!!


Blog Format....I think access to the post box should be readily available...maybe it could be off to the right side, and kinda follow whatever you are reading on the blog....

The previous/next is too small, and some purple and gold would be nice in the area where it says:


Lakers Blog
Round-the-Clock Purple and Gold
written by the Kamenetzky brothers.


"I am a Rams fan and if the Rams had signed Vick (which was rumored to be a possible destination for him) I absolutely, positively, would have been done as a fan of the Rams until Vick was gone and the team ownership, and coaching staff that had made the decision to bring him on had changed. Vick is a despicable human being." Posted by: Bopper

Quite an interesting take from the fan of an NFL team that welcomed back to their roster a man (Leonard Little) who actually killed another human being. Your continued support of a team with a man who has killed another person suggests that your rhetoric about Vick is a tad overdone, and it absolutely proves the point that this issue has nothing to do with morality and everything to do with what jersey the bad guy is wearing.

Posted by: Andrew Bernard | August 14, 2009 at 05:13 PM

==============
I agree and say that I am a Laker fan not a Vick fan. So if he did his time and played hoops and could help the Lakers I would support that.

AK,
"But until then, you can't use "culture" on any level to justify partaking in an activity forbidden by law."

I'm not using culture as an excuse for people to take part in illegal activities. The point is that people who are raised where something is "OK" look at that thing differently, even when it is illegal, then people who are raised in a different environment. That comes into play when judging the motivation of someone, and the subsequent "contrition" or lack thereof.

And the context of an individual's culture is certainly taken into consideration in our justice system when the penalty is being determined.

Posted by: exhelodrvr | August 14, 2009 at 09:21 PM

==========
AK/EX

I see both sides of the debate and elements of both have validity.

The crime was illegal as it was commited in the US and has been paid for by imprisonment. Yes he was guilty here because that is the culture here.

Now if he was Chinese or other certain Oriental cultures dogs are viewed as a food source and delicacy. But Vick is not Oriental and actions did not take place in the Orient so he is still guilty. If he only lived in Asian culture and abided by their laws he would be innocent.

Blog Format....I think access to the post box should be readily available...maybe it could be off to the right side, and kinda follow whatever you are reading on the blog....

The previous/next is too small, and some purple and gold would be nice in the area where it says:


Lakers Blog
Round-the-Clock Purple and Gold
written by the Kamenetzky brothers.


Posted by: humanomaly | August 15, 2009 at 02:26 PM

===================
I like that idea of moving comment box and add that after you comment the box stays where you where at so no need to scroll back to pick up after comment made.

Navigation....

"

Blog Format....I think access to the post box should be readily available...maybe it could be off to the right side, and kinda follow whatever you are reading on the blog....

The previous/next is too small, and some purple and gold would be nice in the area where it says:


Lakers Blog
Round-the-Clock Purple and Gold
written by the Kamenetzky brothers.


Posted by: humanomaly | August 15, 2009 at 02:26 PM

===================
I like that idea of moving comment box and add that after you comment the box stays where you where at so no need to scroll back to pick up after comment made.

Posted by: JustaLakerFan | August 15, 2009 at 03:28 PM
« Previous


Sometimes, I'm reading a blog, then I want to comment on it, then I get all jumbled up, writing, then going back to finding to recheck the post I'm writing about....using Apple Mac's, it would be pretty easy to just copy the blog into a "stickie" and have it on desktop to easily refer to....just thought of that.....

I don't go to dogfights, cockfights, or bullfights. I know that other people around the world have different opinions about these blood sports.

Vick paid a HUGE penalty for his illegal (in the USA) activity: prison time, loss of job, loss of millions in pay. His behavior was stupid and cruel.

I would not like him on my favorite team; however, he should be allowed to play in the NFL with the reasonable restrictions the NFL Commish set down. I would not boo the fellow.

I'm pleased with the stance the NFL is taking.I think it is is good that they takes some responsibility for putting these guys in a sitation where they have unusual lives and things can go wrong more easily with the consequences even more disastrous than for the average person.

Michael Vick did a terrible thing but forgiveness is what makes a humane society. It is important that those values are promoted even if the the crime is sickening.

I think people who say 'most people don't get even one shot to be a professional athlete' ( and there seems to be a number of them) are misguided for the reason that readmittance into the NFL is not about allowing Vick membership to some exclusive club for the privilaged; it is about allowing him to get on with his life and playing football is what he does.Would it really be better for society to spit out Michael Vick and have him bag groceries being infamous and financially ruined for the rest of his life? that would help recidivism how exactly?

If he served his sentence, and said/did all the right things then the justice system has apparently served its purpose and he can be considered to have gone through the system successfully.

Not allowing him to return to a job that will further provide him the means to continue this process and solve his financial problems etc would simply be ludicrous from a 'corrections department' point of view.

Of course if he can't play anymore that is his problem but I commend both the league and the team for supporting his reinstatement and I'd be proud if it were the lakers taking the stance (not to mention happy if they were picking up Deron williams under the same circumstances.)

Forgiveness is a huge part of any society I would want to be involved in.Its not about letting people off the hook - the guy did his time, and from the sound of it, did it well.

Aztronut...just read your post - a great one!

AK,

I imagine the whole thing has been extremely meticulously planned from the early on regarding Vicks reinstatement,the type of team, the type of role, the type of money.I'm not sure they would have had him go anywhere even if the owners wanted him.Get people used to him again with a Franchise with a strong culture that will be fine no matter what which is also a place where he can fly under the radar relatively speaking.

The Eagles may have worked with the NFL and may have been involved from an early stage while the NFL carrots waved under Vicks nose etc.TThis was a pretty big deal - nothing would srprise me.

Kiwi,

Thank you for the kind words.

AK/BK,

Now, how about a post on: "What if the Lakers hired Rick Pitino as their next coach?"

Just kidding!

Why is this even an issue? From what I have been taught, doing a prison sentence is "paying one's debt to society". Am I to believe that when a young man in his twenties makes mistakes that he should be denied employment for the rest of his life? I'm beginning to wonder if many of our sports fans in America would be happier living in China or many of the third world countries where human rights (and their logical extension, forgiveness) is a foreign concept. He's done time, lost millions of dollars, become a public spectacle and he is now seemingly contrite (none of us can read minds), teaching others to not make the samje mistakes and trying to get on with his life. Let it go and let's enjoy the game of football. Oh, and by the way, the NFL is populated with former drug abusers, rapists, robbers and all manner undesirables who have managed to straigjhten up their lives to engage in the discipline it takes to be a professional athlete.

Michael Vick is not worth the news. And he should be forced to setp intot he ring like a real man, before being allowed to play any sport.

yes the man is a great football player he did the wrong thing and served his time. does he not deserve a 2nd chance to prove to the world that once again his greatness can show up and out the dog issue is over now it's time to play some football so lets leave michael vick, alone and play that fall sport of FOOTBALL go EAGLES

Vick is not an NFL QB. Not good enough. Great runner, unparalleled athlete, but NFL QB skills? ... ain't got 'em. His best position in the NFL would be WR.

Let's stop talking about Vick....Let's get back to basketball, how about possible future coach when Phil steps down with his "DIRTY DOZEN".....

or Kobe changing from shooting guard, offensive machine to facilitator, on court organizer, defensive focused....

or what are we going to do when none of our outside shooters can hit the backboard (the Machine, AMMO, Farmar, (Walton and Odom....add their outside shooting percentage together to be realistic), Fish?, I don't think Kobe will stumble, afterall, he has done the Moses thing (not Malone)...he has parted the Red Sea, he has done the Jesus thing...he can walk on water....so he only has to achieve the status of "God"....I'm kidding, people, just sick of Vick and Dogs.....by the way, some of Vick's Nike Trainers (Zoom Vicl III) were some of the best shoes I think that Nike ever made in terms of style, design, function, materials....I bought 3 colors, and always get complements when I wear them, of course, I just say the;re "Nikes of some kind....."

Mamba24... I have to say that your perspective on it makes absolute and perfect sense. Hell, if a guy goes to jail for some big thing and he's a journalist, does that mean he shouldn't be allowed to write for the paper anymore? How bout being a Computer Networking Specialist? That mean he's gotta go bag groceries now? No...

When we traded away Ariza for Artest, I didn't like it. I still don't like it.

I put Artest in the same category as other very talented skilled players who have the potential to destroy a team because they don't have themselves under control. The Palace brawl was a symptom of the problem. His antics in the playoffs when he (tried) to guard Kobe was a symptom of the problem. Think Dennis Rodman as a Laker. Think Rasheed Wallace! With his size and skills 'Sheed should be the best player in the league. But he's not. Too much emotion. He's better than he used to be, but now his physical skills are starting to fail him.

And I sincerely hope that Artest proves me wrong. Results count.

Thank you for your post, Lynne. I couldn't have said it better. Hope this chump gets what's coming to him. He is no more remorseful than was Ted Bundy. The only thing he cried about in his jail cell was the thought of all the money he was losing out on.

BK, comparing Artest to Vic is not fair, not close. I think Artest wish he could have taken back that brawl, which he DID not start. Find another whipping boy. Vic, did hard time for breaking many laws, federal law, etc.

Were you around when Kermit Washington reacted and almost killed Rudy T at the Forum.? It was horrible to watch, but Kermit paid some dues and was always branded. He did get a chance to move forward.

We should not tolerate bad behavior in sports and life, MLB should be ashamed and Vic will have eyes all over him. In the United States he has legal right to a chance. He is not an angel, but has his chance.

Don't paint Artest a gray shade, let him show us what he is about.

The comparison is unfair to Artest.

 
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