You can't stop Tom Chambers, you can only hope to contain him
Congratulations to Kobe Bryant, cover boy for NBA 2K10 for Xbox, PlayStation, Wii, Calecovision, PSP and Atari*. (See him "play" here- why you gotta do Eric Gordon like that, 24?- read him talking about it here.) I imagine there will be some demand locally when the game hits the shelves in early October. Not from me, though.
Don't take it personally, Kobe. It's not you, it's me.
I could rip old school games with the best of 'em. I remember long, fruitful, post (and occasionally during) school NHLPA tournaments with my friends on Sega Genesis. Andy and I used to spend hours in the basement playing Ten Yard Fight and, eventually, blessedly, manna-from-heavenly, Tecmo Bowl on Nintendo. But today's games, quite frankly, have too many freakin' buttons, flippers, and appendages. I can't play them without getting schooled (the exception being Wii, which I love in part for its interactivity but more for the near total lack of operating controls). A couple weeks ago, I tried to play some fancy PlayStation boxing game and was bashed around like Don Flamenco vs. Ali in his prime. I get frustrated and don't want to play anymore. I am a high-waisted old man complaining about teenagers on his lawn.
At the ripe age of 33, you can stick a digital fork in me. I'm done.
Which is why this feature from Patrick Hruby at ESPN.com, breaking down the 12 most overrated "athletes" in video game history, was a great read for me. A lot of the stuff Hruby mentions comes from my video game wheelhouse, or at least those years where, like Kareem at the end, I might have been past my prime but could still play the game, you know? It was a welcome trip down memory lane.
A couple must click highlights for a slow Monday afternoon:
- Hruby's #8: Tom Chambers in Lakers vs. Celtics. I, like Kobe as it turns out, played a lot of Double Dribble. I didn't get into this title as much, which sucks because apparently I could have boarded the Tom Chambers Express to video game glory. No question Chambers was a pretty good player with some quality hops, but in this game his big move was a "jet-packing double-pump dunk" he could execute at the elbow extended... from a standstill. As the clip below shows, Tom Chambers was, at least in this domain, a one man wrecking crew and apparently bionic:
Awesome.
- #12: Bo Jackson in Super Tecmo Bowl. This one I remember. Dude was a force of nature (as Hruby describes him, "Shiva the God of Death") no less stoppable than time or reality television. Was the clip below, perhaps the second most entertaining thing we'll ever post on this blog (the first being this) created through cheat codes, as some in the comments page at YouTube suggest? Who cares. It proves a point. Bo was awesome.
The whole article is extremely entertaining, definitely worth a click.
BK
*Availability of all game systems not guaranteed.
BK
I know just what you mean about new games BK but recently I started playing my friends NBA 2K10...I was getting smoked constantly by him and the computer.I still can't beat him (although I took him to overtime using the houston rockets which are the easiest team to play with as Yao just dominates) but I did eventually beat sacramento with the lakers.My friend created me as a sharpshooting point guard.I must say it was all worth it when Kobe passed to me out of a double team and I hit a three with 2 on the shot clock and 30 seconds left to put us up by 5...(it was only the Kings though)
Lakers versus Celtics? how about Bill Carwright for overated? he was deadly even from downtown!
Posted by: kiwi | August 31, 2009 at 04:58 PM
Bo knows!
Anyway, this goes to show how much videogames have improved today. That music from the football game would have drove me insane if I played anymore than five minutes total.
But oh yea, big congrats to Kobe for making the cover of 2K10. But I gotta tell you that I've been a Live fan for quite a while. However, I have been disappointed with NBA Live for a bit yet, I still get it. I think this time however, I'm switching over to 2K sports.
I'm still looking and hoping for an NBA basketball game that's a true simulation. Tired of the Arcade like stuff.
Posted by: Razdizzlefoshizzle | August 31, 2009 at 06:17 PM
By the way, can we officially announce that David Kahn is an exceptionally adequate replacement for Kevin McHale as Wolves GM?
Posted by: cjms | August 31, 2009 at 06:22 PM
Kiwi...Gotta confession to make...Im in my thirties and still find half an hour to play Xbox...I play NBA 2k9,Fifa o9,Gears of war,Halo and Call of Duty...
My wife says i gotta grow up.....Never...I love it
Posted by: Thirty2 | August 31, 2009 at 07:03 PM
And 2k sports The bigs 2... Best baseball game around...
Posted by: Thirty2 | August 31, 2009 at 07:04 PM
THERE’S NOT ENOUGH TIME…
If you think that the above statement applies to your life now, just wait until you get older. Times flies should be amended to time flies exponentially. When I add up all of the time that young people today are spending on social networking, text messaging, game playing, where is the time to work or sleep? Seriously, I’m amazed that our society can still manage to create greatness with the myriad elements of life competing so voraciously for everybody’s attention. I would more easily have imagined that we created a world full of jacks of all trades and masters of none. But masters still emerge.
For most societies in today’s world, technology has taken the simplicity out of life, at least for the affluent Western democracies. But even China is struggling to maintain control over the pace and extent that technology is embraced and embraces its society. Could it be that some of appeal of Islam is the simplicity of its lifestyle versus the more ostentatious and consumptive Western societies? Does excessive technology breed better understanding and ability to handle chaos? Are 33-year olds still capable of playing championship level sports video games or are they also now obsolete?
First, it was childhood that modern life stole like a Grinch. Mothers went to work and left the kids with a sitter or school. Two-parent working families became the norm. Then TV and other media started to replace family dinners together. Soon, entire segments of our society were dramatically changing, often not for the best. Being a parent or even being a kid today is one hell of a lot tougher than in my day, although I did hike that proverbial 2 miles in snow to school every day. Well, at least for 6 years anyway. Kids today now even need software to manage their social calendars.
I try to keep up with my son and grandson but the problem is that I don’t have the time to become good whereas they both somehow make the time. Maybe that’s the difference between being young and being old – willing to make the time. Personally, I could think of a thousand things I would rather do, places I would rather go, and people I would rather see than to spend hours twiddling my thumbs and twisting and turning to try and create a victory in a fantasy land. Hell, I would rather replay the NBA Finals down at the park or in my driveway.
And its not a matter of slow versus fast. I have always been and still am a pretty hyper person who basically does everything in a fast mode, be it work, running errands, hiking, or even playing ball. Patient is not how anybody would describe me. Of course, part of my problem is that I am a Coke addict – not the kind you snort, but the kind you drink. It is my coffee and tea and I generally will put away a couple 12-packs each week. But even amped with caffeine, I just cannot find time to become a pro at any of the games my son and grandson revel at slaughtering me. Guess I am old. LOL.
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | August 31, 2009 at 07:07 PM
BK,
Wait a minute. Tom Chambers played for the Lakers or the Celtics? I don't remember that. I also saw him more as an Adrian Dantley type of crafty moves and big body inside rather than a jumper. Maybe, we're talking about a different guy. Tom Chambers. Seattle and then Suns. Right? Never Lakers or Celtics. What kind of game is that?
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | August 31, 2009 at 07:14 PM
So it looks like the Wolves have lost Rubio..wow..a number 5 pick gone just like that...His new deal is worth 1mill a year over 2 years with Barcelona...Im not sure if that is euros or not....Could this be a case of what goes around comes around?..................
Posted by: Thirty2 | August 31, 2009 at 07:28 PM
BK,
I laughed uncontrollably whilst reading this.
Dude, I'm thinking now that you are PASSIONATELY in favor of repealing the Prohibition against marijuana.
What do we play for? RINGS!!!
Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.
GO LAKERS!!!
Posted by: Jon K. | August 31, 2009 at 07:34 PM
Back when I played video games (late 80's) they definitely elevated Chambers above his actual ability. He was a great player for a few seasons, but in one of that video games his double pump dunk from either elbow of the lane was the most unstoppable move out of all the stars. He was more unstoppable than Bird, Magic and Jordan in that game. We all get a kick out of that.
But in real life he was certainly a high flyer. I can still vividly see him dunking on Mark Jackson - when he nearly jumped over him. He was a great dunker and scorer in his prime.
Posted by: LRob | August 31, 2009 at 07:54 PM
Laker Tom,
The game was probably called Laker vs Celtics...but Chambers was on Phoenix at the time. He was definitely not the AD type of cerebral player. He was a high flyer known for his athleticism.
Here is the Mark Jackson dunk that I mentioned in an earlier post. It's a classic
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDyBSTQDwH8
LRob
Posted by: LRob | August 31, 2009 at 07:58 PM
I can't believe it's only 28 days until training camp.
Getting very pumped.
Very Pumped.
Posted by: Hoops Freak | August 31, 2009 at 08:56 PM
sorry Tom, I couldn't read your whole post. Too long, and I just can't find the time to read it. Could you summarize?
BK- I agree, least about the second best part. The best in my opinion is Shatner’s rocket man, but we’ll just have to agree to disagree. I am pretty sure that while you could do that with cheat codes, I just sort of took it on faith that it’s real. Maybe not that precise clip, cause it seems like long odds you could do it every time, but at least I’m pretty sure it’s possible. That’s just Tecmo Bowl Bo.
I forget which version, but I remember that Mike Singletary was similarly unstoppable at defense. And of course, against roughly half the teams, with most qbs, the best strategy was to run your qb all the way back to his own endzone and let it fly. Cause, you know, who can’t throw it 110 yards?
Still have an emulator on my PC, and every couple of months I get together with an old friend and recreate the glory days. Good times.
Posted by: phred | August 31, 2009 at 09:12 PM
LRob,
Thanks for the link to dunk. You’re right. I didn’t really see Chambers play that much but never saw him dunk like that. I stand corrected. And video games are an addiction that I prefer to avoid. Spent way too many hours at arcades in my time.
- - - - -
phred,
Glad someone had the time to get the joke. It’s all about choice. After the Lakers, Yankees, and 49ers, no wonder I don’t have time to become adept at video games. Lol. Nice catch and toss back, phred.
- - - - -
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | August 31, 2009 at 09:37 PM
Greatest Lakers of all time (as players):
1) Earvin Johnson
2) Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
3) Kobe Bryant (will break West's all time scoring up coming season)
4) Jerry West
5) Wilton Norman Chamberlain
6) George Mikan
7) Shaquille O'Neal
8) Elgin Baylor
9) James Worthy
10) Gail Goodrich
Top 10 NBA Players of all time (as of 08/31/09)
*1) Wilt Chamberlain**
*2) Bill Russell
*3) Michael Jordan
4) Kareem Abdul-Jabbar**
5) Magic Johnson**
6) Larry Legend
7) Hakeem Olajuwon
8) Shaq O'Neal**
9) Tim Duncan
10) Kobe Bryant**
*Means that these 3 are interchangable. Both were dominant players who each has a case of being number 1. I simply chose Wilt because he dominated almost every category and if it weren't for Russell he would have many titles.
** Player has played on the LA Lakers. So the Lakers had 5 of the top 10 players of all time.
Posted by: KB Blitz | August 31, 2009 at 10:13 PM
Seriously, video games these days have become much too complicated. I bought NBA 2K9 last year and only played it a few times before giving up and giving my thumbs a rest. The game is still collecting dust on my coffee table. Sad.
I did recently purchase Madden 2010 and found it to be a bit easier to play despite the thousands of plays to choose from. It's hard to find the time to invest hours and hours into mastering these types of games. Gone are the days when sports video games were a mindless escape from reality.
By the way, that Super Tecmo Bowl footage is hilarious. It also serves as a preview of what Joe McKnight is gonna do to UCLA and Oregon's defense this season. How appropriate!
The closest thing to Bo Jackson in classic football video games is probably Deion Sanders in Madden 1994. The guy was by far the fastest guy in the game. I remember racking up like 15 sacks per game by blitzing with him from the corner and scoring 10 touchdowns with him as a wide receiver.
Posted by: EJK | August 31, 2009 at 10:51 PM
thirty2
Tell the Mrs theres plenty or worse vices you could be afflicted with...maybe then start talking about how the guys at the office partake in some recreational smack and are planning a dachuria party this weekend...or you are home early becasue they are hitting the strip clubs before a high stakes poker game...I reckon you can milk yourself another half hour a day...
2K9 is an awesome game I just wish it would automatically make a logical pass...
Posted by: kiwi | September 01, 2009 at 12:47 AM
The Wolves HAVE NOT lost Rubio. They're waiting two years, big difference. That's bogus journalism that almost every sports website is buying into. Hyperbole at its most annoying.
The Wolves are losing Rubio just like the Spurs lost David Robinson to the Navy. I guess they'll never see him again.
Wes
Posted by: wesjoenixon | September 01, 2009 at 04:29 AM
KB,
Good lists, well thought out, not too Laker focused. Is is sacrilege nowadays not to put MJ on a list all his own, like he was from another planet, but I agree on Russ and Wilt, each dominated the league in his own way.
On the Laker list, Kareem has to be 1 or 2. Magic gets all the credit, but he never won without Kareem, and Kareem even at 40 could dominate in a big game.
My only quibble is I think Wilt is ranked too high AS A LAKER. Maybe because I am old enough to remember how he played at the end, and still have nightmares about the finger roll and fall away bank shots.
Young, Wilt was an incredible athlete who handled the ball like a guard (albeit in the days when guards used hand). By 71-72 he looked more like he was 50, his movements were stiff and his post game strange.
Thanks!
Tom D
Posted by: Tom Daniels | September 01, 2009 at 06:08 AM
AK,
"At the ripe age of 33, you can stick a digital fork in me. I'm done. "
Funny coming from a dude running a blog. Don't worry the next generation of controllers are just around the block. Attach a pair of rings to your ankles and wrists and you'll be sticking a digital fork in the celtics over and over and over and over and over and over and over again without having to learn a complicated sequence of buttons
And oh 3 knocks on wood multiplied by the numerous fans on this blog to ensure no injury jinx from the 2k cover ... Having said that best believe I'm getting 2k 10 once it hits the shelves ... if only to stare @ that cover over and over and over and over and over again.
Posted by: Segeboy Formerly Known As Taliq | September 01, 2009 at 06:58 AM
Tom Chambers was very athletic and had a couple of great years, scoring 25+ points/game. In the parlance of the day, he was "white but played black." Big hands, great leaper, great finisher. Sweet outside shot and killer on the pick and roll with KJ. He went off for some big scoring games. He actually was an all star game MVP once.
So not unstoppable, but a tough cover. As I recall, not much interested in defense, though.
Tom D.
Posted by: Tom Daniels | September 01, 2009 at 07:56 AM
I can't believe it's only 28 days until training camp.
Posted by: Hoops Freak | August 31, 2009 at 08:56 PM
I know. Get old and each day shrinks by becoming a smaller percentage of your life, but 28 days to training camp? This seems a bit extreme, like someone took about a month out of the offseason.
Hmm.
Wes
Posted by: wesjoenixon | September 01, 2009 at 08:22 AM
Blitz,
>>> Greatest Lakers of all time (as players):
>>> 1) Earvin Johnson
>>> 2) Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
>>> 3) Kobe Bryant (will break West's all time scoring up coming season)
>>> 4) Jerry West
>>> 5) Wilton Norman Chamberlain
>>> 6) George Mikan
>>> 7) Shaquille O'Neal
>>> 8) Elgin Baylor
>>> 9) James Worthy
>>> 10) Gail Goodrich
>>> Top 10 NBA Players of all time (as of 08/31/09)
>>> *1) Wilt Chamberlain**
>>> *2) Bill Russell
>>> *3) Michael Jordan
>>> 4) Kareem Abdul-Jabbar**
>>> 5) Magic Johnson**
>>> 6) Larry Legend
>>> 7) Hakeem Olajuwon
>>> 8) Shaq O'Neal**
>>> 9) Tim Duncan
>>> 10) Kobe Bryant**
>>> *Means that these 3 are interchangable. Both were dominant players
>>> who each has a case of being number 1. I simply chose Wilt because he
>>> dominated almost every category and if it weren't for Russell he would
>>> have many titles.
>>> ** Player has played on the LA Lakers. So the Lakers had 5 of the top
>>> 10 players of all time.
Excellent list, Blitz, well worth repeating. I could quibble about a couple of difference but your Lakers Top 10 List rocks. I also have to say that I also really like your Top 10 All-Time list, although as I expected, Tim Duncan is obviously listed too high. Nevertheless, I am not sure who I would put in his place and Tim did play D. I also do agree that Hakeem deserves to be above Shaq.
Overall, a solid “A” for the effort, Blitz. Thanks.
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | September 01, 2009 at 08:42 AM
Good morning CRUE!!!
Only 28 days left??? Ok... take another swig... I can do this... whew.... it's all good... easy does it.... only 28 days... a few more championship dvd reruns and we're there... pop another tranquilizer... I'll be fine... no worries here....
Posted by: justanothermambafan | September 01, 2009 at 09:02 AM
I forgot to mention that any thread that has the "shrimp on a treadmill" on it is a GREAT thread! Thanks K-bros! Not only a blog favorite, but a classic piece of cinematography. Good stuff.
Posted by: justanothermambafan | September 01, 2009 at 09:04 AM
That Tecmo Super Bowl Run is hysterical! There was a game - kind of recent - where this sort of played out in real life with all the laterals, etc? A case of life imitating art...
Posted by: justanothermambafan | September 01, 2009 at 09:08 AM
Tom Chambers had MAD HOPS
just watched the dunk over Mark Jackson, simply amazing the air he gets.
Posted by: zach from san diego | September 01, 2009 at 09:23 AM
Jon-
Thanks for the note. For the record, I do support legalization, but not for the reasons you're implying. :)
BK
Posted by: Brian Kamenetzky | September 01, 2009 at 09:56 AM
Geeeeez
I'm older than BK and I remember all of those totally awesome games!
The one shining difference is that I do like some of the newer games, the caveat being that I like me a good strategery-style game or RPG as opposed to shoot em, kill em, blow em up, you WIN, kind of game.
I love EA sports NBA live series, at least until recently, I don't dig on the lack of plays and so I might go and grab Kobe's game, if it it'll work on my old school Personal Computer.
I think the shrimp still wins out over any, single other item linked to or posted yet.
That shrimp is effing hilarious.
Bo knows Shiva?
Posted by: Jamie Sweet | September 01, 2009 at 09:58 AM
I had lots of respect for Tom Chambers. When seattle traded him to PHX, he went out and scored 60 points on those fools the next time he saw them.
Everyone marvels at LeBron's atheleticism, as they should, but people should youtube some of Tom Chambers' dunks. He not only gets his head above the rim, but he dunks ON people, big and small. the guy was a scorer too, and really fun to watch on a drive to the rim.
Posted by: #4 | September 01, 2009 at 10:13 AM
LakerTom
I love your post! Check this lil ditty for an equally amusing take on today's "Younger Generation"
http://tiny.cc/j1sd2
Do you think the Who saw this coming when they sang My Generation? A world where people aren't just 'puttin you down', but one where you are connected through distance, have random information at your finger tips, and we substitue small facts for complete knowledge.
Case in point: I can go online and figure out how to fix my jammed garbage disposal (quite easy, actually) but I do not see myself as a plumber. Nor do I possess the qualifications to call myself one. Google can get you most of the way there on a variety of technical problems, but true knowledge, the kind that comes from study, is not the priority it used to be.
The now portable internet allows us to keep up with this super-fun blog, check on random facts and keep in touch with people who a re thousands of miles away...
...but is it also sapping our ability to play outside?
Naaaah!
Posted by: Jamie Sweet | September 01, 2009 at 10:15 AM
BTW, on Lakers vs. Celtics, if you think Tom Chambers was bad, try Barkley's 2-footed gorilla dunk from the FT line, or the fact that John Stockton, Isiah Thomas, and KJ can 360 dunk on a dribble drive.
Posted by: #4 | September 01, 2009 at 10:17 AM
Oh no. Are we making lists now? I love lists. Any kind of list. How about the greatest cheese rock songs of all time?
I guess the parameters are that the song must have some kind of cheese element, like a really serious theme or topic laid over some corny melodic finger picking or gaudy guitar riff.
10 Wonder boy, Tenacious D. This baby has it all: soaring harmonies, thundering riffs, wicked lyrics about psychic powers, killing yacks, and sidekicks. This might be top 5 on my list if it weren't so new.
9 Come Sail Away, Styx. Momentous. Monumental. I like to hum this baby when someone's done me wrong or I just happen to have a big batch of self-pity brewing inside me. This one soothes all ailments. "I'm sailing away, set an open course for the virgin sea/'cause I've got to be free, free to face a life that's ahead of me." Snif, snif.
8 Carry On Wayward Son, Kansas. "Though my eyes could see, I still was a blind man/Though my mind could think I still was a madman." Deeeep. Wow. I dare anyone to listen to the little piano respite and not be moved. Do that, and ye be not human.
7 Runaway, Bonjovi. Cheese at its best, one thinks. Great driving synthesized power riffs, cool vocals, big hair, chilled red wine—all the things that go well with Bonjovi
6 Final Countdown, Europe. An obvious choice, still it must be made. The end is near and again, it’s trumpeted by prophets with big hair.
5 I Don’t Want to Miss a Thing, Aerosmith. Yeah,, maybe “Dream On” is historically cheesy, but this baby is so epic it slid the cheese right off the plate.
4 Still Lovin You, Scorpions. Big hair rock at its biggest.
3 Blinded by Science, Foreigner. http://tinyurl.com/nrvdp4 One of the first pieces of music I ever got my mits on, I had this 8track in my bedroom one summer in the early 80s, and I’ve since been a sucker for any kind of anti-technology rock and roll since. Run for your lives!
2 Dust in the Wind, Kansas. http://tinyurl.com/2zvgcb Probably the first cheese song I ever loved, only one song could hold this baby back from the top spot.
1 Stairway to Heaven, Led Zeppelin. Actually there could be about 10 Zeppelin songs in this list, but I’ll cut it to one to share the wealth with the lesser mortals. The kings of kings, everything they touched turned to gold—gold cheese.
Wes
Posted by: wesjoenixon | September 01, 2009 at 10:24 AM
I must say, I'm not a big fan of video games. I'd rather do the real thing than play a "virtual" game. It just doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
That much said, I am pretty sure that if we'd carpet bomb Afghanistan with X-Boxes and soccer balls, we'd pretty much have the war over in about a month.
Seriously, if you have to choose between playing X-Box, playing soccer OR getting shot at by Green Berets, how many people are going to choose getting shot at by Green Berets? Not many.
What do we play for? RINGS!!!
Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.
GO LAKERS!!!!
Posted by: Jon K. | September 01, 2009 at 10:28 AM
So, it says on "The Fabulous Forum" that Jordan Farmar is up for being traded to another team.
Anyone into a crazy trade scenario like Farmar, Vujacic, and Morrison for Chris Paul? Anyone?
What do we play for? RINGS!!!
Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.
GO LAKERS!!!
Posted by: Jon K. | September 01, 2009 at 10:30 AM
Jamie,
I, too, was around for the invention of Pong. And when was the last time you picked up a freaking book? Read at least 1 to 2 books per week. Thanks for the link. A great prophetic song by Phish.
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | September 01, 2009 at 10:50 AM
Daniels signing confirmed!
Posted by: 131-92 | September 01, 2009 at 11:48 AM
I must say, I'm not a big fan of video games. I'd rather do the real thing than play a "virtual" game. It just doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
Posted by: Jon K. | September 01, 2009 at 10:28 AM
Jon,
I like the real thing too however, videogames are designed to take you away from reality. You see, for me... I can go to a local gym in my area, drop a few points here and there in a pick up game, then go home and play for the Lakers.
ISN'T LIFE AWSOME!
Posted by: Razdizzlefoshizzle | September 01, 2009 at 11:52 AM
Tom Daniels,
Reason why Wilt is ranked over those other players:
1) Mikan was dominant but played in Minnesota. While it was the same Lakers franchise it was in Minnesota lol. That would be like us moving into Las Vegas. Even though I might still root for the Lakers it wouldn't be the same as they are in LA.
2) Shaq diminished his Laker legacy by badmouthing LA and doing all those crazy stuff. He does deserve a top 10 spot nevertheless by leading the Lakers to 3 titles (though he put up incredible numbers he didn't have to face the Russell Celtics)
3) Elgin never won a title. He was a great scoring dude though. Yet he didn't play defense as Wilt did and he didn't lead the Lakers to a title.
4) James Worthy was a great supporting player for the Lakers but take out Magic and he couldn't lead the Lakers to a single win over the Pistons in 1989.
5) Same with Elgin with Gail.
71-72 Wilt was more of a team player and more of a defensive force and had the Defensive Player of the Year award had been established then would have won it. He still could outplay a young and upcoming Kareem Abdul-Jabbar which he did in the 1972 Playoffs.
And the other Tom Laker Tom,
Reason why Tim is ranked #9 is because he led his Spurs to 3 titles and was a big factor in 2007 Finals even though Tony Parker won the Finals MVP. If I had to rank guys who are just below Kobe such as Oscar Robertson, Karl Malone, and Charles Barkley to be above Tim, I would be forced to rank them above Kobe as well which I don't consider to be possible because Kobe led his team to a title which neither the round mound of rebound nor the mailman were able to do and when Oscar won his only ring he did it with Kareem as the go to guy. If Kobe wins another ring I would have him not only outrank Tim but also Shaq as well. Gets another three-peat then he is ranked with Magic and Bird. Even if others step up and wins the Finals MVP, at 7 rings he joins the tri-fecta of Wilt/Russell/MJ.
Posted by: KB Blitz | September 01, 2009 at 12:04 PM
Most people list of top 10 Lakers all-time have either Magic or Kareem at the top...and rightfully so,but here's a question...
What will it take for Kobe to move to the top. Kareem and Magic have 5 rings each compared to Kobe's four. If he wins another ring does that make him the greatest Laker ever? If he does win another one...he'll have won two rings with virtually and entire different cast...plus no other All Time great on second group. What do you think?
Also, Blitz I loved your list but you can't have a top 10 all time greatest without the Big O.
LRob
Posted by: LRob | September 01, 2009 at 12:22 PM
KB Blitz,
Why do you think that Tim Duncan is better than Karl Malone? I understand on a title basis, but Karl Malone was a force of nature practically. The mailman delivers!
What do we play for? RINGS!!!
Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.
GO LAKERS!!!
Posted by: Jon K. | September 01, 2009 at 12:38 PM
Wes....How can White Snake 'Here i go again on my own' not make it ...lol
Whats not to like about hairspray rock n roll...lol
Posted by: Thirty2 | September 01, 2009 at 01:11 PM
"Also, Blitz I loved your list but you can't have a top 10 all time greatest without the Big O. "
Oscar Robertson was in the top 10 but then Kobe took the spot from him. To me at least he is ranked number 11. Oscar was a triple double machine but sadly could only win 1 MVP and 1 ring and it was Kareem that won the Finals MVP.
Jon K,
I'll let Charley Rose explain why Tim is better than Karl
"Malone was much stronger and, in his prime, a half-step quicker. Both were equally great rebounders, with Duncan having slightly better range.
Duncan's offensive game had many more possibilities than Malone's — better spin moves, a better left hand, more potent moves from the right box, and Duncan's effective shooting range was a step or two longer.
As expected, Malone's screens were more muscular, and he was especially adept at slipping his screens.
Duncan's handle is vastly superior, particularly in face-up situations. Plus his passwork is more reliable, and he's not the turnover machine that Malone was.
Because of his strength, Malone could make opponents' feet slide on defense and therefore push them off their favorite post-up spots — something that Duncan is mostly incapable of doing. In addition to his intimidating straight-ahead push, Malone also liked to swipe at the ball when an opponent gathered to shoot. But if this latter tactic was unsuccessful then either a layup was in the offing or another of Utah's bigs was forced to commit a foul. Neither shot-blocking nor rotating were significant aspects of Malone's defensive game plan.
Duncan, on the other hand, plays better positional defense against post-up opponents but is more reactive than proactive. However, Duncan is a better shot-blocker and help-defender.
Both were undependable at the stripe.
But Duncan's biggest advantage is his reliability in the clutch. In far too many win-or-lose situations, Malone would settle for tossing up turnaround jumpers over his right shoulder from the left box — whereas Duncan reaches into his bag of tricks.
Here's an example of how little opposing coaches thought of Malone's ability to excel in important games: The Bulls and the Jazz played a total of 12 games over the course of the 1997 and 1998 NBA Finals. Through it all, the Bulls' philosophy was to play Malone one-on-one, and he came up with only two games in which his scoring turned the games in Utah's favor. (Of course, when Michael Jordan did two-time Malone in Game 6 of the 1998 series, he came away with the game-winning steal.)
A Hall of Fame go-to scorer operating against strictly man-to-man defenses should dominate more than two out of 12 games.
Because of Malone's limited offensive repertoire, his gambling defense and his penchant for choking in critical games, I'd certainly rate Duncan higher on the all-time list. In fact, I rank Duncan as the best power forward ever, followed by Kevin McHale and Bob Pettit, with Malone in fourth place. Dave DeBusshere is fifth, followed by Dolph Schayes and Dennis Rodman."
Duncan has 4 rings 3 of them he led his Spurs to titles and was a big factor in his 4th. Plus he has two MVP's like Karl does. Simply put Duncan led his teams to titles. Karl Malone chocked in both Finals when he was in his prime.
Though I disagree with Rosen. My PF list would be: Duncan/Malone/Barkley/McHale/Garnett/Petit/Desbusshere and Schayes
Posted by: KB Blitz | September 01, 2009 at 01:13 PM
Wes...Im not a betting man but....I am willing to make a blog bet with you...
Try this my friend....The rights to Rubio get traded within 2 years ....
WHAT SAY YOU..........??????
Posted by: Thirty2 | September 01, 2009 at 01:18 PM
Kiwi...
Thats the thing...If she knew half the things my married mates get up to on the weekend and work trips she would go insane...I just sit in my lounge,crack open a coldy and play for half hour...
Posted by: Thirty2 | September 01, 2009 at 01:21 PM
Wes - re: your cheese songs, I'd have to nominate "Love is Like Oxygen" by the Sweet, "Hot Child in the City" by Nick Gilder and "All By Myself" by Eric Carman (all with evolutionary roots to classic teen cheese/bubblegum from a generation earlier - Tommy Roe, Archies, Tommy James & the Shondells, etc., etc.)
Posted by: dave m | September 01, 2009 at 01:37 PM
Laker Tom
Amen brother.
Now if you'll excuse me I have weeds to pull.
Posted by: billy in slo | September 01, 2009 at 01:53 PM
KB Blitz,
Thanks for the article.
Since we're all list happy today...
Greatest Lakers Power Forwards of All-Time:
1. Elgin Baylor
2. Pau Gasol
3. Karl Malone
4. Bob McAdoo
5. Lamar Odom
6. A.C. Green
7. Robert Horry
8. Kurt Rambis
9. Jim Pollard
10. Mychal Thompson
What do we play for? RINGS!!!
Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.
GO LAKERS!!!
Posted by: Jon K. | September 01, 2009 at 01:57 PM
Wes- Man, I started a reply and to put together my own list, say, my entire playlist, but I got stuck in the details.
For one thing, ‘Cheese’ isn’t specific enough. You could have sub categories like ‘Cheesy but good’ “cheesy and crap’ ‘cheesy crap, but I like it a lot for personal reasons’ “cheese that people think is crap but is actually not cheesy at all’ “songs which are by good bands that are deliberately cheesy for creative or commercial reason’ or ‘crap that hopes it will be cheesy someday cause it will never last on its own merits”
I am sure we can all think of many examples of songs that fit into these categories, or perhaps someone can think of their own categories or disapprove of some of mine.
And I started wondering about how to rate cheesiness. I figure some songs are a bit cheesy, but also really good. So I thought maybe some sort of ratio is needed, like a Cheese Ratio, Actual Proportional Quality (CRAP Q), with a higher rating being a higher amount of cheese to quality. But some songs with high quality might actually have more cheese than a song with a higher CRAP Q, so how do you rank that?
I am afraid I have more questions than answers at this point, and I am having a hard time placing things in my ranking. I mean, try to calculate the CRAP Q of, say Ice Ice Baby. Do you give any credit to the quality element of it including the bass line from queen’s ‘under pressure?’ Or is Ice Ice Baby just a crappy song that doesn't even deserve to be called cheese? Perhaps we need an adjusted CRAP Q. So you could, you know, give A CRAP Q to any particular song.
Posted by: phred | September 01, 2009 at 02:04 PM
And I like 'stairway to heaven'
Posted by: phred | September 01, 2009 at 02:05 PM
I remember going to a birthday party when I was about eight and seeing a clear cassette tape for the first time (Rick Springfield, for the record). There was a palpable feeling of "it'll never get any better than this" in the air that day, no question.
BK
Posted by: Brian Kamenetzky | September 01, 2009 at 02:20 PM
KB,
Not so sure McHale isnt #1. Duncan plays more Center than PF. He may have been the PF when Robinson was there but I wouldnt call Nazr Muhammad or Nesterovich the true Centers on the post Robinson era Spurs teams.
McHale lost 40pts and 20rbs per game to Bird and Parish. The others didnt have to share #s with other front court teammates of any quality other than Duncan for a few yrs.
Posted by: 131-92 | September 01, 2009 at 02:28 PM
Thirty2,
Okay. Fine.
Jordan Farmar to Minnesota for the rights to Ricky Rubio. You heard it here first.
What do we play for? RINGS!!!
Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.
GO LAKERS!!!
Posted by: Jon K. | September 01, 2009 at 02:28 PM
Well this should make next season a little more interesting regarding the point guard position.
Farmar speaks out about starting.
http://tinyurl.com/mv5ydj
Personally I don't think this is a big deal. I'm glad to see a little fire under farmar once again. However, hopefully the Lakers don't take it the wrong way and ship him out.
Go Lakers
Posted by: TrueLakerFan | September 01, 2009 at 02:30 PM
phred/wes,
How (HOW?) is 'Stairway to Heaven" less cheesy than 'Ramble On'?
If I may quote the cheesiest of all Led Zeppelin songs,
"But GOLEM [shouted in a goblin-like shriek] and the evil one, crept up and slipped away with her
Away with her
Ye-ah
I guess there's nothin' I can do now
I guess I'll just RAMBLE ON! {Shake!}
Sing my song
Goin' round the world
Gonna find my girl
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, YE-AH!"
What do we play for? RINGS!!!
Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.
GO LAKERS!!!
Posted by: Jon K. | September 01, 2009 at 02:34 PM
So your trying to tell me that Mark Madsen,Brian Cook,and Samaki Walker dont make anybodies list....with these 3 you have a mixture of Bad dancing,Bad footwork and ugly shooting all rolled into 1......
Posted by: Thirty2 | September 01, 2009 at 02:38 PM
YO AK /BK....you guys dont wanna miss this....
check out RON ARTEST singing KARAOKE hahahahahaha
http://tinyurl.com/masehw
Posted by: kf824 | September 01, 2009 at 02:45 PM
BK - "At the ripe of 33"? haha. Phooey.
I just hit 40 and still getting my PS3 on, even if it does wreak havoc on my creaky appendages.
Posted by: T-MELT | September 01, 2009 at 03:17 PM
Jon K...If that deal hit the table i would say yes...
The Wolves tried to work out part of his buyout with a series of games promoting both teams...
But let me ask you this question .......What team would you rather have yourself working in tandem with...The Lakers with a Spanish hero as its center or the Wolves and whatever they have?....Lets be real about this...The Lakers with Pau Gasol would get Rubio here in a heart beat...He could make his buy out fee in a season alone through sponsorship...Shoes,food and tv deals......The only problem is this.......His new deal with Barcelona...it runs for 2 years...If the Lakers had that 5th pick i would bet my Magic Johnson signed ball in a glass cube that we would get him here....Its not as crazy as it sounds people....
Posted by: Thirty2 | September 01, 2009 at 03:22 PM
Jon,
>>> Jordan Farmar to Minnesota for the rights to Ricky Rubio. You heard it here first.
As the founder of the now defunct “Start Farmar Bandwagon,” I will sign off on that.
I would love to see Rubio in purple and gold.
>>> 9. Jim Pollard
Man, I had to look that one up, Jon. That was even before my time. LOL. Other than that, I could go with your list. Looks pretty much in sync with my opinions.
What version of IE are you using? IE8?
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | September 01, 2009 at 03:44 PM
Great points Dave and Phred.
I LOVE cheese rock, and I love the songs on my list. I don't mean cheesy bad, I mean cheesy like you have to hide your arm when you hear the song because the goose bumps give your true pop-lust-laden feelings away. It's cheesy if you love it, but rightfully feel guilty for loving something so gaudy.
Maybe I'm more in touch with my own cheesiness than most people. But, give me cheesy or give me death.
Wes
Posted by: wesjoenixon | September 01, 2009 at 03:55 PM
I've been so broke over the past few years, I never even replaced my original XBOX with a 360 once it bit the dust. So I can't speak on the video game world as it exists today. Although I must wonder how EA Sports let NBA 2K dethrone NBA Live. Y'all know my theory about how most of today's NBA players are 3-pointer happy because of that game. Heck, I once created my own character on NBA Live just so he could bust 3's at will. Heh...I was even outscoring Kobe with that dude! :)
So Jordan's pulling a "START ME OR LOSE ME" move, huh? LOL! Shannon Brown's got a better chance of starting at PG than he does. UPS's game is more consistent. Jordan plays like a steaming pile of mess!
Who can we get from Memphis for Jordan/Sasha/Morrison?
Posted by: utzworld - THE BANNER HOLDER | September 01, 2009 at 04:07 PM
Thirty2,
Okay. Fine.
Jordan Farmar to Minnesota for the rights to Ricky Rubio. You heard it here first.
What do we play for? RINGS!!!
Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.
GO LAKERS!!!
Posted by: Jon K. | September 01, 2009 at 02:28 PM
========================
I'd buy that for a dollar!
Posted by: JustaLakerFan | September 01, 2009 at 05:03 PM
Kiwi...Gotta confession to make...Im in my thirties and still find half an hour to play Xbox...I play NBA 2k9,Fifa o9,Gears of war,Halo and Call of Duty...
My wife says i gotta grow up.....Never...I love it
Posted by: Thirty2 | August 31, 2009 at 07:03 PM
=====================
Gotta agree I love Halo, Gears of War, Call of Duty and more. Really helps me escape real world. Ya my wife thinks I'm crazy too.
Posted by: JustaLakerFan | September 01, 2009 at 05:33 PM
Banner Folder
You can probably get Elvis! Perfect trade ... dead weight for dead weight.
Posted by: 131-92 | September 01, 2009 at 05:57 PM
I hope that kobe doesn't get the dreaded video game curse.....think about it.....every athlete who graces a cover of any sport video game that following year has A) A Bad Year Personal or Team or B) Gets Injured.....i hope not "just knocked on wood"....just say'n.....don't believe me......check it out yourself.....
Posted by: purpngld4eva | September 01, 2009 at 06:35 PM
I hope that kobe doesn't get the dreaded video game curse.....think about it.....every athlete who graces a cover of any sport video game that following year has A) A Bad Year Personal or Team or B) Gets Injured.....i hope not "just knocked on wood"....just say'n.....don't believe me......check it out yourself.....
Posted by: purpngld4eva | September 01, 2009 at 06:35 PM
I believe Kobe held the cover of another game in the past. He'll be fine. As far as Farmar for Rubio. Well...NBA 2K10 is coming out....make it happen.
Posted by: Razdizzlefoshizzle | September 01, 2009 at 09:46 PM
I remember using Jim Brown on one of the early Madden Football games. He was so dominate that I could tell you I'm running left and you could set your defense to the left and I still would score.
Posted by: Taylor | September 02, 2009 at 06:24 PM
OMG!!! What great memories. I remember playing TECMO BOWL more than 20 years ago against my then 8 and 4-year old sons...who BTW kicked my butt then...the punks. Looks like Bo hasn't lost a step. I doubt that LT or Ronnie have either. I wish that I could say the same. So does Jack "Hang Time" Trudeau.
Posted by: Arizona Laker Fan | September 03, 2009 at 09:15 AM
dude...i laughed non-stop. i know exactly the games you are talking about and feel exactly the same. i can't tell you how much time my friends and i burned playing tecmo and then super tecmo which to me is the greatest sports game of all time. also hockey on sega when you could skate over someone's neck and watch them bleed was a college favorite. thanks for that youtube. i was laughing and it brought back so many good memories.
Posted by: tecmo rules | September 06, 2009 at 09:46 PM