Trevor Ariza's negotiations: My initial thoughts
It's understandable and predictable that news of Trevor Ariza and the Lakers engaged in acrimonious, standstill contract talks would send chills down the Laker Nation's collective spine. The report from ESPN's Chris Broussard certainly doesn't drip with sunshine and moon pies:
The 24-year-old swingman, who played a key role in the Lakers' run
to their 15th NBA championship, is on the verge of leaving the club,
sources close to the situation said on Wednesday. With at least
five teams pursuing Ariza, the Lakers are currently unwilling to pay
him more than the $5.6 million mid-level exception.
"They're letting him go," one of the sources said.
Cleveland
is making a hard push for Ariza, and the Cavaliers' coaching staff was
speaking with him on Wednesday. While Cleveland can only offer the
mid-level as well, Ariza's disappointment with the Lakers' stance has
moved other suitors ahead of his current team.
The Press-Enterprise's Jeffrey Eisenberg relays some copy from TA's agent, which adds little in the way of rainbows to the mood:
"I had a long conversation with Mitch, and I don't think it's going
anywhere," agent David Lee said. "I think I'm being optimistic when I
say it's not going anywhere."
Asked later if this could lead to Ariza's exit, Lee responded, "Yes, we have no choice. That's the position they've put us in."
(UPDATE: Lee comments further in a Times report by Mike Bresnahan and Broderick Turner: "All we're looking for is little appreciation for what Trevor has
done," Lee said Wednesday. "I don't think they believe Trevor is
serious about leaving, and that's too bad. I didn't think we'd be in
this situation. I am disappointed and surprised by what I thought would
be some feelings for the people who have given you everything they've
got.")
All pretty ominous talk. But I while would hardly recommend anybody taking a "p'shaw" attitude, no questions asked, I would also urge people to take trip down Memory Lane. Specifically, back to October, 2008, when Lee was expressing frustration with Andrew Bynum's extension talks:
"I just don't get it," he said. "I do not understand certain things
that happen. Andrew has taken everything the Lakers have thrown at him,
including criticism. He doesn't do anything to respond other than go on
the court. He just goes on with his business. And...
"It has to get done by the 31st," Lee said. "Otherwise there are, of
course, consequences under the collective bargaining agreement."
Plus...
The lack of progress in contract negotiations has left Bynum's agent frustrated. "I
would say that's a fair assessment," Lee said. "Disappointed would be a
better word than frustrated, but we shall see. Maybe it's premature. We
will have a conversation tomorrow and then we'll see where it's going."
Maybe it's just me, but I'm getting a "Phil Connors" kinda feeling all over again.
If you remember, Lee sent out many a hint that anything less than max years/max cheddar for Drew was unacceptable. The agreement reached was certainly generous (some might even say too generous), but hardly the entire enchilada. A rather grounded and low key solution, particularly in light of the dire picture painted by Lee.
Look, don't get me wrong. There's certainly a chance that Team Ariza
and Team Buss are planning a trip to Impasse County. But there's also
a chance- my gut says a better one- that we're getting another taste of how Lee operates: Lots of public complaints and threats. Little in the way of clients leaving their most recent employers. Maybe I'm under-thinking this, but most of these scenarios floated around strike me as either unrealistic, undesirable or both.
- Assuming the Blazer's interest in Hedo Turkoglu is as real as reported, that eliminates the only quality team with an ability to go beyond the mid-level and a pressing need for a small forward.
- Toronto apparently has interest and can offer big bucks, but to paraphrase the old saying, sometimes you get what you get paid for.
- Even if bringing in Ariza wouldn't necessitate moving Tayshaun Prince, Detroit used up its spare cash on Ben Gordon and Charlie Villanueva.
- Is Ariza really so steamed at the Lakers' reported mid-level opening offer that he's looking to "stick it to them" by taking the exact same money to enter a potentially messy situation in Houston or the mess that is the L.A. Clippers (who strike me as an odd team to ink a long term deal after trading Z.Bo to Memphis for Q and future 2010 cap space)? He's really that mad after a day's worth of negotiating? If that's honestly the case (which doesn't feel in character), I'd actually think twice about paying him.
- With all due respect to Ariza, the Cavs already have a small forward a hell of a lot better than he'll likely ever become. LeBron Whatsisname?. And given how they're in desperate need of a power forward that can stretch the floor- Hell, with Anderson Varajao now an unrestricted free agent, they're actually in desperate need of a power forward, period- I don't get why Cleveland would prioritize stacking at a non-need position. Yes, either LBJ or TA could play the two (or LeBron could maybe play the four, I guess), but still, that approach feels hinky.
Throw all that together and it feels like the makings of an agent sounding off and feeding outlets to land more cash for his client. Brian Windhorst, the Cleveland Plain Dealer's outstanding beat writer, tweets similar sentiments.
Cavs in thick of it for Artest, Ariza or R.Wallace.Though I get the impression Ariza may be trying to sweeten LAL offer. 2moro may be wild.
So take all that as you will. Again, not making any guarantees or recommending you order a vanity plate reading "TA LAL 4 LF." The Lakers could very well be eyeballing Ron Artest as a shorter commitment fallback and of the opinion (one I happen to share) that Lamar Odom is more difficult to replace. But it nonetheless feels awfully early in the game to be treating matters with a "late in the fourth quarter" outlook.
AK
No ariza no sleep tonight! Sign Ariza then I can go to sleep.
Posted by: Staples 24 | July 01, 2009 at 10:14 PM
Now I have a sick knot in my stomach. Almost like we just lost a playoff game.
Posted by: Laker Kev | July 01, 2009 at 10:18 PM
So what?
Posted by: Otis | July 01, 2009 at 10:19 PM
I realize I'm not staying on point here, but given that I also think this sniffs of posturing (we'll find out soon enough), I'm also totally distracted by the fact that Mike Dunleavy actually managed to move Zach Randolph. For an expiring deal... AND the trade exception.
This Ariza thing could very well still sort itself out in LA's favor. In the meantime, I worried for Chris Wallace's safety.
BK
Posted by: Brian Kamenetzky | July 01, 2009 at 10:19 PM
Brothers, what do you think of what Ron and his brother are tweeting ... http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=379549 .. I just heard Ron on a Sacramento radio station saying he is leaving Houston. His brother all but said the Lakers are the frontrunner, asking sarcastically why the Lakers would just let Ariza go to Cleveland, who was supposed to be in hot pursuit of Artest. I bet Buss and Kobe leaned toward Ron Ron all along, this is interesting stuff.
Posted by: FredJ | July 01, 2009 at 10:20 PM
AK,
i get your point. but remember ALL those comments about trevor being immature? this sounds like that trevor.
i do believe he will go. and to tell you the truth i don't care. just because his agent makes me dislike trevor.
i liked trevor. but his agent is so annoying that the lakers might not sign trevor just because the agent has horrible tactics.
an agent is an agent, but this guy is just pathetic.
Posted by: lakofan | July 01, 2009 at 10:24 PM
The thought of losing Ariza scares me, even more than losing LO.
Posted by: adwnpinoy | July 01, 2009 at 10:28 PM
This agent sounds like he has a bad case of premature negotiation ...Cant you get a nasal spay for that...
Posted by: Thirty2 | July 01, 2009 at 10:29 PM
Farewell, Ariza?
Is Trevor Ariza's time with the Lakers up? Looks like the swingman's contract requirements might be too rich for the defending champions' blood.
Forget it! Trevor's time with the Lakers is just starting. Kobe and Ariza ARE MADE FOR EACH OTHER. They bond together.
Posted by: Staples 24 | July 01, 2009 at 10:30 PM
I'm ready to let the man walk. Detroit and Cleveland. Two of America's top cities. Enjoy Trevor.
Wes
Posted by: wesjoenixon | July 01, 2009 at 10:31 PM
Trevor...say it isn't so. We 've only just begun..
...5 yrs 34 mil will get it done..
.I hate Lee. He pushed us around in the Bynum circus (which I agreed with the contract anyway).
I think if Trevor wants Ron Ron money and if Ron Ron can stop hucking and start hawking again maybe that would work anyway. This is the line of thinking I would not so subtly float out there to combat Lee's ever present lies and manipulations.
This guy is Scott Boras without the clients or the savvy...Much lover to all. Dana Point to KC..Laker for Life.
Posted by: Kobesbad | July 01, 2009 at 10:32 PM
another prediction...kidd is going back to dallas.
they are offering him a three year deal. knick's won't.
yet another prediction. memphis is still going to suck next year.
Posted by: phred | July 01, 2009 at 10:34 PM
if someone has a picture of this agent please post it.
I want to see this man's face.
He's so annoying, seriously, he made me dislike Trevor for a minute, and lets just say i LOVE trevor.
Posted by: me | July 01, 2009 at 10:34 PM
Ugh we already have one player with Lee as an agent, something tells me it'd be better if we let Trev go. His agent is so annoying.
Didn't we get a trade exception in the Space Cadet for Ammo and Brown deal?
Posted by: cinz | July 01, 2009 at 10:35 PM
I'm not knowledgeable about trades but is it possible to resign LO, TA, Brown, AND get Artest? Somehow getting rid of Sasha, Morrison, Farmar, Walton or does that just load up in one position?
Posted by: JimA | July 01, 2009 at 10:35 PM
Well thought out, I agree. Negotiations aren't always pretty. Every agent has his own way of motivating owners. It simply wouldn't make sense for Trevor to leave the Lakers, the first team to show him respect as a player, not to mention a championship ring. No one can offer him big money and frankly he probably isn't worth it. Certainly not in this economy. The mid level is probably all he will get from the Lakers and he should be happy with that. The rest of the situation is pretty good for him. I'm sure during the finals he was thinking man I'm glad I'm on the Lakers sideline! He probably wouldn't have even played but a few minutes here and there for the magic.
Posted by: bill babishoff | July 01, 2009 at 10:36 PM
also a reminder; if we really really want, we can have LO, TA, SB and ron artest next year. just in case any of you were going to go to bed without posting a few more comments. heh heh.
Posted by: phred | July 01, 2009 at 10:36 PM
If that's Ariza's mentality. Let 'em walk. Snatch up Ron Ron and LO, and lets go. What do we lose besides age + he gives us that edge we will probably need to defend anyway. You how hard Artest will play with the ring truly in his grasp. Luke still provides the safety net.
Posted by: fLAV | July 01, 2009 at 10:37 PM
yo lakertom
whats up with that last glass half empty post? i dont get it dude... maybe i'm missing the joke cause i aint been around these blocks long but what are you insinuating?
just because some of us dont share your views how does that make us pessimistic?? just cause i dont agree with yourself and the majority of the blog like most recently the kobe opt out "dead horse" issue, artest as a laker, and i definitely aint a luke homer (and i'm proud to say it!) but how is that GHE dude?
sounds like youre demonizing us trying to pit the "darkside" like we're part of some evil renegade group.. LOL. not cool. pls get off your high horse and dont characterize us as "the bad guys". that is outright bigotry.
if anything this blog is the evil empire controlled by your leader BK (darth vader) and we're the rebel alliance trying to fight for justice... this blog is like a state run communist propaganda and BK is brainwashing his audience with his haterade.. there's no doubt he is a hater and must be kept in check...
theres two kinds of kobe haters in this world.. the kind that come full frontal and the kind that lurk and hide in the background waiting for the right time to strike.i'm afraid BK is the latter definitely way IN the closet.
it it walks and quacks like a duck then it must be a duck and theres not a shred of doubt that BK is a dang duck!.
LOL... BOAHAHAHAAHAHA!!!!!
and one more thing.. in one of your recent posts you called kb blitz as your equal adversary?? wow that was shocking cause i had a lot more respect for you than that. are we talkin about the same kb blitz?
Posted by: yellofever | July 01, 2009 at 10:38 PM
I had a chance to read those tweets and im not sure if they are hot air or legit...Is he messing with our heads?...
Posted by: Thirty2 | July 01, 2009 at 10:40 PM
Odom's skills maybe hard to find, but ariza's role with the Lakers is more important for the Lakers.
The Lakers does not have anybody who can play Ariza's gift.
Bynum, Gasol, Mbenga, Powell, Walton can all play a part of Odom's role.
A lot of the critical plays that won the Nuggets and Magic series Trevor was involved more than Odom and he is only 24.
Ariza is definitely more important than Odom, in my humble opinion.
Ariza should be given 7 mil and Odom 9 mil and be done with it.
Posted by: Staples 24 | July 01, 2009 at 10:40 PM
If can remember correctly Lamar was drafted as a small foward, why can't he play the position now? Think of all the problems that big lineup would cause. We would only need a big to come off the bench.
Posted by: G-Money | July 01, 2009 at 10:41 PM
Yea - I really thought everything was going to be signed for TA, LO and Brown right away. I guess that was just naive. I know it's negotiating but saying the TA would play for the Cavs - if that's not true then that really sucks. Fans will turn on TA and it might not even be true. Sometimes those bad feelings don't just go away - if he ends up a Laker and has a bad year like Sasha - freak - everyone will remember those comments and it will come back to haunt him. I lived in Okinawa before and they call that bachi!!!
Posted by: Greg | July 01, 2009 at 10:42 PM
detroit stikes fast.... I could've seen the Lakers signing charlie villanueva if TA or LO didn't sign with the team. Cross your fingers Lakers fan, this is a very dire time for us.
JUST SIGN ALREADY TA!!!! AND LO!!!!
Posted by: socalife | July 01, 2009 at 10:43 PM
Jason,
We can't print your comment. Just subbing in a couple of ## for the objectionable word doesn't work. Either pick a different word or make it entirely masked, the latter being the better call.
AK
Posted by: Andrew and Brian Kamenetzky | July 01, 2009 at 10:44 PM
Lakofan,
I'm not aware of the "immature" comments you're referring to with Ariza.
AK
Posted by: Andrew and Brian Kamenetzky | July 01, 2009 at 10:44 PM
Agent Fodder.
Posted by: Charles | July 01, 2009 at 10:45 PM
If Ariza wants to go to Toronto instead of staying with the Lakers to win another championship, maybe he does not want to be a champion that much.
Posted by: Thomas | July 01, 2009 at 10:47 PM
WHAT DID WE SELL OUR DRAFT PICK FOR?
WHAT DID WE DUMP MIHM FOR?
Answer: The Difference between what we're offering Trevor and what he wants.
GIVE IT TO HIM AND MOVE ON - To Another Ring!!!
Posted by: Jay Jay | July 01, 2009 at 10:47 PM
BK,
"I'm also totally distracted by the fact that Mike Dunleavy actually managed to move Zach Randolph. For an expiring deal... AND the trade exception."
Ha! Did you or AK read the story that they had a deal to move Randolph for Darko before he was traded and Sterling blocked it? I was like, wow! You have a chance to move Randolph and his contract and the genius blocks it, I couldn't believe it. And now Dunleavy miraculously pulls off this trade. Did Wallace really want Randolph that bad that he would negotiate for him twice? And people say Artest is crazy.
Posted by: Skeletor | July 01, 2009 at 10:48 PM
Trevor is so important to the Lakers. I get the feeling this is a bunch of crap and a very foolish thing to do if Trevor does leave. I have been a HUGE Ariza fan before he came to LA. and Mitch is a fan of him as well and had been keeping an eye on him for years. I just don't see this happeining. Trevor upset at LA for their "blase'" attitude about his role. I don't believe that. Trevor is so important to the future of this team. If the Lakers let him go....HUGE mistake.......Love LO tho'...There's no reason why they can't keep both. Cleveland is pathetic and Ariza would just get lost in the shuffle in Cleveland. There is a reason LeBron won the MVP and little else, The Cavs just suck and Shaq isn't going to add ANYTHING. Shaq wasn't a real Laker, Who cares? Trevor Ariza?????????? Can't happen.
Posted by: Laker Marc | July 01, 2009 at 10:51 PM
otis
Exhelo
Xodus
Fatty
Floyd
#4
with Calli P and T4-Show-Mr.Barney Dangles-Justanotha, Faith, Rick Friedman, PsLakerFan etc... and the rest of the crew who I have interacted here. Against your team.
There are no pecking orders or hierarchy here...
Posted by: Charles | July 01, 2009 at 10:51 PM
woah! i just read ronrons twitter, he's playing with lamar at lamar odom's (odum, from artest) house at hollywood... ???
Posted by: quazzar | July 01, 2009 at 10:52 PM
AK -
How long do you anticipate this will take to suss out (regardless of the outcome)? Tonight? Tomorrow? Friday?
Posted by: David Leeisacawk | July 01, 2009 at 10:55 PM
No one is ripping on Ariza. If he leaves for the same pay, he should really tip out the door.
Posted by: Charles | July 01, 2009 at 10:56 PM
Ariza is overrated. Remember Smush Parker? The starting point on the lakers three or four years ago. Now he's not even in the NBA because he's not playing with Kobe. When Ariza was playing, he was always the worst player out on the floor for his team. Kobe, Fisher, Gasol, Bynum, and Odom are all better than him. It's not a big loss.
Posted by: Jake | July 01, 2009 at 10:58 PM
"Kobe and Ariza ARE MADE FOR EACH OTHER. They bond together." and they play very well together on both ends of the court. This is only their 2nd year together. This tandem just can't break up. I have been waiting my whole life for Kobe to have somebody with him more athletic than him and plays perimeter dfense. He is as close as Scottie Pippen Kobe will ever have.
How long have kobe and Lo been together? No chemistry!
I have seen more consistency in two years of Trevor than five years of Lamar.
Posted by: Staples 24 | July 01, 2009 at 10:58 PM
I think Artest signed a new record deal and is having a lend of us.
Posted by: Thirty2 | July 01, 2009 at 10:59 PM
yellofever- i was really going to give you the benefit of the doubt and disagree with lakertom, but posts like that only nominate you as a crazy person. BK isn't evil. he's not even obnoxious, he's just bald. but i suppose as you said, you haven't been around these blocks too long. don't get me wrong, BK can take care of himself, but compared to most people around here, he doesn't score at all on the haterometer. I mean, jeez, have you read tj s*m*rs? oh wait, don't go reading him. just take my word for it.
remember, it is all about the love. even for bald people.
Posted by: phred | July 01, 2009 at 11:05 PM
Aiza is important because the Lakers traded Radmanovic. When Kobe is double teamed he needs to be able to kick out to a shooter. Sad to say that Ariza is the only person who knocked that shot down consistently enough to make the defenses pay. If Lakers lose Ariza, they need someone who can knock down the outside shot when Kobe gets doubled.
Phil does not want to play Odom with Bynum and Pau because he wants room for Kobe to operate. There is no one else on the roster who can do what he does defensively and knock down the open shot. There are occassions when he drives to the basket as well. Although Odom drives to the basket as well.
Posted by: Vee P | July 01, 2009 at 11:07 PM
Just because Ariza can hit a wide-open three and play defense doesn't mean he is irreplaceable. Kobe has great chemistry with anyone who can hit an open three-pointer. Smush Parker could do that and Kobe made a point guard not good enough for the NBA a starting point guard. Ron Artest is ten times better and if Ariza is getting cocky and doesn't want to win there is no reason to keep him.
Posted by: Jake | July 01, 2009 at 11:08 PM
Kinda' hard to question personnel decisions by Kupchak/Buss mgmt the past 3 years, TA himself being part of the proof.
Posted by: lakerholic | July 01, 2009 at 11:08 PM
charles...i think you just undermined your own point. or maybe i'm upset I was left off the list.
Posted by: phred | July 01, 2009 at 11:09 PM
If mid-level is the legit offer, it's still kinda' hard to question personnel moves by Kupchak/Buss mgmt team the past 3 years, TA himself being part of the proof.
Posted by: lakerholic | July 01, 2009 at 11:11 PM
SPECIAL ROLL CALL FOR THIS B.S. TODAY. utzworld BANNER HOLDER we need your special prayer today*****
LARRY(MAMBA24)
LAKERS TODAY LAKERS TOMORROW LAKERS FOREVER
Posted by: MAMBA24 | July 01, 2009 at 11:11 PM
Yeap Ron's now saying he signed with the Knicks for 12 million.... RIIIGHT
Posted by: cinz | July 01, 2009 at 11:12 PM
That's why - sign Artest already!!!!! We get a crazy defender - we get our one bad boy who will cover everyone's back - as long as Kobe and LO can keep him in check- we dominate!!! Plus we get to kick shaq and lbj's arse when we meet up!!! Oh what a feeling!!!! And if sheet goes to the celts - we need ron ron to lay some of those green weenies on their back!!
Posted by: SignRonRon | July 01, 2009 at 11:12 PM
Phred,
"charles...i think you just undermined your own point. or maybe i'm upset I was left off the list."
Posted by: phred
My bad. Shame on me. At least I put "and the rest of the crew who I have interacted here." I should have put: The whole roll call. But you are a bad brotha on my book.
One Love,
Charles
Posted by: Charles | July 01, 2009 at 11:16 PM
If that's Ariza's mentality. Let 'em walk. Snatch up Ron Ron and LO, and lets go. What do we lose besides age + he gives us that edge we will probably need to defend anyway. You how hard Artest will play with the ring truly in his grasp. Luke still provides the safety net. Posted by: fLAV | July 01, 2009 at 10:37 PM
AMEN!!! ARIZA WE LOVE YOU....BUT BYE BYE!!!!
Posted by: MAMBA24 | July 01, 2009 at 11:17 PM
cinz
It might be a phantom twit on tweeter. After all, during the Friendster era, I did put up a picture of Tom Cruise on an F14 Tomcat and said my occupation was a Naval Aviator.
Posted by: Charles | July 01, 2009 at 11:18 PM