Ron Artest press conference video, Part II
Part I aqui, for those late to the party. And if you'd like to first hear BK and I discuss our impressions of Artest via the 710 ESPN Lakers podkast, then watch Ron and compare notes, feel free. Or you view the talkies below, then give the podkast a whirl. But either way, listen to the poddy, or else you'll be dealing with a nagging void in your life that's impossible to quell.
Artest has barely been an unofficial Laker, much less one with an inked contract, but that hasn't prevented him from experiencing the crush that is the Laker Nation's enthusiasm. Artest praised the fans of every city he's represented, but immediately noticed what sets apart a purple and gold's loyalist. "The fans are so confident. That's what I've learned. Every fan is telling me I'm going to win, saying, 'you ready for your ring?' I'm like, 'Yeah, I'm ready.' "
The only thing better for Artest than proving O'Brien predictions correct would be doing so while playing alongside longtime buddy Lamar Odom. "That's a storybook ending. I don't want to think about it too much- I'd rather just do the work and let the work speak for itself...but it would be a storybook ending." While mentioning the pair's New York roots, Artest took us on a trip down a Big Apple NBA Memory Lane, mentioning folks like Elton Brand, Rafer Alston and... Smush Parker. (Hey, the guy did make it all the way to the L, like it or not).
Hearing talk about money being secondary priority, increased focus and moving past the Palace Brawl, it felt to me like age has drastically affected Artest's perspective on his career. Pretty much. "When I came into the NBA, I was wild," admitted RA. "It took me a long time to realize how I want my life to be. How I want my career to be." Artest views his time with the Pacers as a step backward, a stumble he's since been determined to make up for. "I want to leave on top of my game. That's real important to me."
"That's a no-brainer," smiled Artest as confirmation that he's cool deferring to Kobe Bryant. "And I didn't even finish school." Heck, he spent last season sometimes giving up post touches to Luis Scola and Carl Landry. Nice players both, but certainly not on Artest's level. "I really don't even care if I score. I just want to win." BK replied that such sentiments could have been ripped from the Lamar Odom Handbook, which prompted a grin from #37. "(Lamar) told me to say that. He said you'll love me if I say that. Really, I want to average 50."
BK then noted how, as the new piece of a championship squad, Artest could very end emerge the fall guy should the Lakers fail to repeat. Does Artest feel that pressure? Yep, and he's damn glad to. "I love that. That's great pressure to have. I want people to say that. I want people to come down on me hard and expect all that." Besides, he would just be emulating the same Laker that he's willing to offer deference.
The following clip, for me, comprises the presser's most interesting section. Artest's responses are probably more candid than I've ever heard an athlete reflect on his shortcomings, especially while being introduced to his new audience.
I asked Artest if the fun side of his personality recently emerging and increased on-court focus went hand in hand. Definitely, because both helped develop the ability to properly deal with losses, and that skill's absence caused serious issues for Artest. "Losing got me in trouble most of the time in my career," admitted Artest, sharing tales of cameras broken and Gatorade bottles flung in reaction to defeat. Then he realized that fun was a necessity, even while competing at the highest level.
"I had to find a way to able to lose a game and bounce back. That's why in the playoffs, we could lose by 30 and I'm totally happy,because I knew we'd win the next game. Before, everybody's jersey would be ripped up."
Obviously, such tantrums aren't a productive way to handle coming up short, and Artest eventually realized his negative reactions furthered the issue by preventing his squad from bouncing back. "I was a bad teammate in Indiana," admitted RA. "I was never a good teammate. Over the last couple of years, I learned how to become a good teammate. That was more important than my game, becoming a good teammate."
Again, this is brutally frank, often a rare commodity with professional athletes conditioned (and often encouraged) to deflect and spin. In particular, the "bad teammate" sentiment reminded me of Kobe Bryant a few seasons ago. I don't specifically mean the "bad teammate" label, but rather a realization that being a good teammate was ultimately as- or more important- ability. And in particular, what "being a good teammate" means, which varies from elite player to elite player.
Even if you don't buy into the widespread notion that Kobe had to learn to "trust his teammates more" (or that some were even worthy of said "trust), by his own admission, the ability to communicate what's needed from them and the game plan was an area where Bryant needed to (and has) improved. That recognition was kind of the last piece missing in Kobe's evolution as a player. In a VERY different way, with a different set of circumstances and degree of professionalism, Artest realized the same basic principle. Hopefully, he can continue to grow along these lines while in L.A.
During the Rockets-Blazers series, Artest's pursuit of a loose ball led to him happily chilling in the Houston stands. There's an irony here that doesn't need much explaining. Artest joked about this right after the game, but that ability to poke fun at his past has taken a while. "It took a long time just to laugh about it, because it's something that hurt me and something that hurt my family. I never thought I'd be able to get over it." But time, as they say, is the ultimate wound salve, upon realizing how much his circumstances had changed (and the role he played in changing them), Artest opted to savor the moment.
"I actually had a chance to leave and walk right out, but I just sat down and just soaked it in... it felt so good to actually be in the stands and have fun. It felt so good."
As Mitch Kupchak acknowledged, the Lakers are now dealing with "a degree of the unknown." There's no way of knowing for sure how well Artest will fit in next season or if the team will improve with his presence. And that's fitting, since he arrived because of surprising circumstances: Yao Ming's career suddenly somewhere between "on hold" and "in jeopardy," which goosed Artest's availability, and rapid impasse in negotiations between the Lakers and Trevor Ariza. If the story's opening chapters provided this many twists, it's only logical that the ending won't be easy to predict.
Kupchak did express complete confidence, however, while evaluating his new acquisition's talent level. "Today sitting here, Ron, where he is in his career, and (compared to) Trevor (Ariza), Ron is a better player."
Also, some words from Kupchak about the Lakers' steadily rising payroll in a bad economy and whether that might prompt cost cutting (the casualty in particular being Odom). While acknowledging that the bottom line has resulted in "hard decisions" (declining to match offers from the Golden State Warriors for Derek Fisher and Ronny Turiaf), Mitch also shared Dr. Buss' reticence to part with an essential player purely because of dollars and cents.
"With the (Buss) family, and this came up during
the meeting on July 1st, you end up talking financial terms for an hour
or two, and at the end of the conversation, (Dr. Buss) kind of looks at
you and says, 'Mitch, but we're so damn competitive.' So it's almost
like the things you talked about for the last hour almost begin to go
out the door because he wants to win. I think the balance is that he's
knowledgeable enough to make a good decision that involves basketball
and business."
Finally, I wanted to share a quick exchange with Kupchak about the negotiations between the Lakers and Team Ariza:
Andrew Kamenetzky: Were you surprised to see the negotiations reach an impasse so quickly?
Mitch Kupchak: (small pause) I'm never "surprised," so I can't say I was surprised. I thought maybe that as we continued to talk, that maybe there would be some meeting of the middle ground within 24 hours. But it moves so quick, you know? And you have to go on feel. I just didn't feel that we were gonna be able to make a deal. If we did, it would have precluded us from bringing back the other players we wanted to bring back. You have to factor in that Ron all of a sudden became available and maybe under normal circumstances, you'd wait a day or two or three to try to work it out. But you can't do that.
AK: You don't want to potentially miss out on both guys.
MK: You have to kind of follow your gut feeling on the thing. And it moves quick. Once you start down that road, it's hard to do a 180. So we just gathered as much information as possible and about 24 hours later, we made the decision to move quickly.
AK: From the outside looking in, with the interest expressed both on your guys' end and on Trevor's end, to end up in that position so quickly was honestly surprising to see.
MK: It's surprising and disappointing.
Considering the setting (a presser to announce both a major acquisition and Ariza's replacement), hearing Mitch use the word "disappointing" struck me as fairly revealing. Not that he isn't genuinely happy with Artest on board, but that doesn't change your general feelings. I don't want to harp on the matter too much (as I've already made perfectly clear my thoughts on how events likely transpired), but the exchange felt too interesting to omit.
AK
Photo of Ron Artest leaning. Credit: AP Photo/Philip Scott Andrews
Artest! We got Artest!
But now, its like the woman who upon getting the man of her dreams want him to change. To behave, to . ., to . . , to whatever.
Heck NO! I want this Artest. Warts and all.
Posted by: p ang | July 09, 2009 at 07:14 PM
AK,
Great stuff, Andy. You’re keeping us alive. But I wished you would have asked the question that has been the horse that wouldn’t die: Did you make an offer to Trevor?
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | July 09, 2009 at 07:26 PM
After listening to everything RA said, I am very comfortable with his addition and look forward to him integrating himself and becoming a valued member of the team. Sometimes we forget what it's like to be in your early twenties making considerable amounts of money and having everyone around you telling you what you want to hear. Under those circumstances, immaturity is sure to raise its ugly head but the key is learning from those thought provoking experiences. I believe RA has and I can't wait for the new season to start.
Posted by: jwbrent | July 09, 2009 at 07:44 PM
how about Kobe's teammates being more professional, working harder, finishing plays and being worthy of Kobe's trust?
i guess it's a 2 way street. the chicken or the egg.
looks like Artest is becoming the new vehicle to bring back kobe's shortcomings?
Posted by: ouchhhhhhhhh | July 09, 2009 at 07:51 PM
When we re-sign Odom we'll have...
In the final minutes of the game, Fisher, Kobe, Artest and Gasol as last-shot options with any misses being grabbed by Odom.
Then this same unit has Kobe and Artest to stop dribble penetration and Odom and Gasol to block shots and rebound.
So we do need Odom to be the kind of team we all want to be. No doubt about it. It's looking to me now like Portland may go after him after all. If the Jazz trade Boozer then they'll 100% match any offer Portland makes to Millsap. This leaves Portland still needing that SF or backup PF. This leaves Odom a possibility but at what price?
Anyone know what Portland can offer Odom?
Wes
Posted by: wesjoenixon | July 09, 2009 at 07:51 PM
I remember last year when Artest was bolting Sac-Town, the Blog floated the idea of Artest coming here. At the time I thoroughly rejected it. In my mind it was too close to The Brawl, too close to the Record Tour, and too close to his days of after loss destruction. When he signed with Houston, following Rick Adelman I noted, I thought that was interesting on a few levels.
1) He never showed any loyalty to any of his previous coaches, yet, here he was following a coach whom had given him a chance the year prior to play the game the right way. Despite his lame Sac-Town hair cut, he played in Rick's system and helped that team play better than I ever thought it could.
2) He wasn't (theoretically) going to be the dominant player on that Houston team. he had T-Mac and Yao who were obviously the focal point of the offense, marketing, etc of the Houston franchise. He accepted less than his percieved market value to play for a team he thought had a legit chance to go all the way.
3) When T-Mac was frequently out of action and when Yao went down in the playoffs, he never freaked out. Even when he thought Kobe had neck chopped him, he didn't push with his hands or jump up and down screaming. he ran over to the ref (who promptly blew him off), he then ran over to Kobe (who made a veteran move by letting him get ejected, thereby winning the game without playing any basketball) and you know what? Replays showed Artest was right. He had gotten a major neck chop.
All of the last two season have seen no Sports Center Ron Artest freak out sessions, to my knowledge. SC used to LOVE showing Bill flip out. Now? There's nothing to show.
It would seem he has truly moved on from whatever place in life he was in prior to and during the brawl years. With a stable franchise, team and environment I think he'll be fine. Is he a character? Sure. But now I'd rather have him on our team than off it.
Now sign LO, already.
GO FRONT OFFICE!!!!!
Posted by: Jamie Sweet | July 09, 2009 at 07:53 PM
p ang
b ang!!!!!!! WE GOT ARTEST!
AS IS
Posted by: ouchhhhhhhhh | July 09, 2009 at 07:55 PM
some tidbits from part II of his press conference:
on following kobes lead: "of course we gonna follow him thats a no brainer and i didnt even finish school"
on desire to win: "i gotta have one ring i need one bad"
on his role on the team: "i really dont care if i score i wanna win.. i dont have a problem with not scoring a point and deferring..."
on pressure: "that great pressure to have i want people to come down on me hard... thats why its great playing with a guy like kobe... i like to prove that i can be"
on walking into kobe in the shower: “I didn’t mean to walk in the shower with him. Yeah, I walked in the shower. I’m not a homosexual nothin like that but Kobe - he had no clothes on.”
GO RON RON!! man the more i listen to him the more he grows on you.. hes talkin off script and sounds totally sincere genuine and funny!
Posted by: yellofever | July 09, 2009 at 07:55 PM
Laker Tom,
"Great stuff, Andy. You’re keeping us alive. But I wished you would have asked the question that has been the horse that wouldn’t die: Did you make an offer to Trevor?"
Glad you enjoyed it. I realize this "did he make an offer" issue has popped up on the blog (I'm nothing if not literate. haha), but I didn't ask Mitch about this, because it strikes me as a matter of semantics.
Of course an offer of some sort must have been made. Otherwise, how does Team Ariza even know the Lakers are thinking about a contract lower than what they're seeking? I doubt Kupchak instructed David Lee to throw out numbers, then told him they were too high without offering specifics the Lakers had in mind. Figures had to have been tossed around, which, to me, is an "offer."
Does that mean something was put on paper for Ariza to sign? Maybe not, but what difference does that make? Why bother putting together a formal contract you know won't get signed? That's a waste of everyone's time and energy. If that was the case and Lee is intimating that without a formal contract, there was no "offer" made, that's just splitting hairs.
Bottom line, I find it impossible to believe that the Lakers gave absolutely nothing in the way of what a reasonable person would consider an "offer." An offer "good enough?" That's another story. But are we really supposed to believe the Lakers, after trading players for cap space, selling draft picks and giving every indication of wanting to retain Ariza, decided all of a sudden that he wasn't worth an "offer?" Even an "offer" Lee considered lowball? That just hits me as a reach.
AK
Posted by: Andrew and Brian Kamenetzky | July 09, 2009 at 08:15 PM
I think what Mitch had to say about Jerry Buss is pretty revealing. This may be a minority opinion, but I am awfully glad that the owner of the Lakers cares this much about winning. I can't think of many other professional sports franchises with this kind of history of success -- rebuilding and retooling decade after decade, regardless of the risk, going after the best players out there. Lots of owners, in all sports, are happy to make money first, win second, which generally means don't win. Again, my opinion, but I'm grateful Jerry Buss owns this team.
Posted by: teamn | July 09, 2009 at 08:24 PM
Ouch,
"how about Kobe's teammates being more professional, working harder, finishing plays and being worthy of Kobe's trust? i guess it's a 2 way street. the chicken or the egg. looks like Artest is becoming the new vehicle to bring back kobe's shortcomings?"
You're right. It's absolutely a two way street, which is why I didn't say (nor have I ever said) that Kobe was entirely responsible for his teammates' past successes or failures. That would be ridiculous and I would never contend that Smush Parker fizzled out because Kobe "didn't make him better." If anything, he deserves a medal for channeling the best out of William Henry.
But having said that, Kobe does play a PART in the supporting players' success, because he's their leader, part of being a leader is figuring out how to get the best out of your teammates that are capable and WILLING to do more. That's simply the burden that comes with being not only a franchise player, but one desiring to go down as of the all-time greats. You can't have all of the accolades and none of the responsibilities.
Plus, not all of those past guys were Smush Parker. Kobe also had teammates desiring to do better, but not always sure of how. The understanding of the game and their roles wasn't always there, and Kobe grew better and more patient at clarifying matters. Everyone from the players to the coaching staff to Kobe himself has acknowledged this, so there's not much to "argue" about.
By jumping to "defend" Kobe, you're actually missing my point. This wasn't a criticism of Kobe, but rather a compliment towards the strides he's made along these particular lines. There's more to leading a team than simply talent and desire alone, and in the last few seasons, I think Kobe's not only grown to understand this, but done a good job working with that knowledge.
Plus, it was just a comparison between what Kobe and Artest both learned, which was more of what I was getting at from the beginning.
AK
Posted by: Andrew and Brian Kamenetzky | July 09, 2009 at 08:32 PM
forget the timeline nonsense. does it really matter? is your loyalty with Team Ariza or the Lakers?
AK speaks logic in his argument.
Posted by: VA laker fan | July 09, 2009 at 08:46 PM
I think Mitch plays his cards extremely well. Close, straight and never sweating.
Remember the days when there wasn't a thread without someone posting "Kupcake must go!"?
Where are those comments now? They went away when we acquired Gasol, Ariza and now Artest.
I don't think anyone refers to Mitch as Kupcake anymore, and that's a good thing.
As Laker fans, we tend to live in the past a wee bit too much as a result of our epically historic team. Which is fine, but we'll never have abother Kareem Abdul Jabbar or a Jerry West or a Magic Johnson again.
Why? Those are once in a lifetime talents, especially West as he not only played as an amazing Laker, but formed multiple championship teams throughout his years of being GM.
To the future and beyond!
Posted by: Jamie Sweet | July 09, 2009 at 08:55 PM
AK
i did not miss your point. and i totally agree that is a process. but kobe did not have, let's say, the opportunity or to find a way to trust his team mates for like 2-3 years because he really had only scrubs, and i'm not talking about talent, i'm pointing to the context and "those" players mindset.
so what i was saying with the 2 way street (or 2 to tango), is that most of the time both sides have to grow and to transform in that process. and are interdependent. a codependency that is positive and not negative. maybe PJ should write a book: from un-coachable to leader.
in this case, ron with the lakers, has already the context, a championship team, a great coach and staff, a great organization were his requirements or standards to himself and to his game will be ready to blossom. as we know, except maybe houston, he was always in a miserable company.
when i said "shortcomings" i forgot to put it in quotation marks, because many of his shortcomings r media created. also i referred to the 3-5 days when "Kobe takes a pay-cut" was an un-necessary topic from my point of view, but reflected negatively only on Kobe. and going full circle, even if you did not intended to have a negative comment on kobe, because of your history (BK included) of Kobe bashing, you also need a few years to prove to the bloggers that you CHANGED your attitude toward Kobe and were is a negative comment it is just by merit and positive criticism.
unfortunately, it is not only Kobe, the team, PJ and so on. it is also the fans, the bloggers, the writers, the K brothers. we r all part of this Los Angeles Lakers Syndrome with our "personal" sensitivities. and the epicenter of the syndrome will be still Kobe for at least like 5 years. but luckily we have a new fault line: Ron Artest.
i do not need to defend kobe. his game and the results for the past 2 years r testimony for what he can still do. and i'm sure that if this will continue for him and the team, in a few years even the hard core anti-kobe voices will be silenced. as i told today i friend of mine, be patient and stop being masochistic: enjoy his game.
so do u. thanks
Posted by: ouchhhhhhhhh | July 09, 2009 at 09:30 PM
AS USUAL ALL LUKE LOVERS RE-UNITED AND CAME TO HIS RESCUE. NO SURPRISE THERE BUT LETS RECAP THEIR RESPONSES. (btw i promise this is my last post on luke at least till i have to put up with him again in november)
"Well, at least you could get your facts straight. Luke does NOTmake the midlevel. Luke's contract started at 4 million, almost 2 million per year BELOW the midlevel"
so he doesnt make the CURRENT midlevel but ur figures are way off... ur the one arguing semantics here cause hes damn close to the midlevel and its going up every year... here's his salary from rotoworld:
2008/09: $4.42 million, 2009/10: $4.84 million, 2010/11: $5.26 million, 2011/12: $5.68 million, 2012/13: $6.1 million
--------------------------
"luke is a slightly less than the average NBA salary. He is appropriately compensated and is a good role player"
NO SORRY HES NOT SLIGHTLY LESS THAN AVG. FITS IN GREAT IN THE TRIANGLE BUT HAS NO VALUE IN ANY OTHER TEAM.. THEREFORE BY LEAGUE STANDARDS IS SEVERELY OVERPAID.. DID YOU JUST SAY APPROPRIATELY COMPENSATED?? OMG! YOU CAN DEFEND LUKE THE PERSON BUT NOT HIS CONTRACT
------------------------------
"Trevor is just a hair above average NBA player and he was offered a contract a hair above the league average"
did u just said luke is just below league average and trevor is just a hair above league average?? WOW. so ur argument is trevor is only slightly better than luke. just listen to yourself you crazy homer
------------------
"Keep crying and I bet we'll see you with Clipper Darrell one of these days."
this from blitz.. and suffice to say never worth responding to.
--------------------------
"Last year, Luke Walton was tough enough to injure Perkins
while blocking his shot. "
HAHAHA.. pure comedy. luke tough enough to injure perkins. now that is top10 luke hall of shame material.
---------------------
"In the 2006-07 season, Luke had averaged 11 points, 5 reboundsand 4 assists on 47% shooting. He shot a higher percentage than Kobe or Lamar and shot a reasonable 39% on his 3-pointers"
how honorable defend luke's 2006-907 season when kobe had smush, cook, kwame, vlade, mckie...
-----------------------
"At the start of that season, the Lakers had brought in Vlad Rad
for a full MLE, but Luke clearly outplayed him on both ends
of the court."
again that dont say much does it
------------------------------
"And the Lakers were over the salary cap in the summer of 2007 so they didn't have a bunch of cap space to make offers to anyone better than Luke."
are you saying lakers had NO BETTER OPTIONS THAN LUKE IN THE SUMMER OF 2007?? WOW HOW TRULY INCOMPREHENSIBLE.
-------------------------
"They could have just let Luke walk. But if you're barely a
playoff team and you let your third best player walk for nothing,
then you're probably out of the playoffs. But if you keep him
and maybe add a player or two you get a little better.
HMMMM NO ABSOLUTELY NOT LISTEN TO URSELF
------------------
"You want a comparable situation from this summer? Consider
Marvin Williams. He's arguably the Hawks 3rd or 4th best
player. "
luke aint half the player that marvin is. what are you saying. as a matter of fact there's probably 4-5 guys in every nba roster who are better and make less than luke. check for urself
http://tinyurl.com/l3d4yn
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"The guy hussles, I'll give you that, but Luke Walton is a better player than Varejo."
Common jon k thats blasphemy. u know ur better than that
-----------------------------
"I told you that the Luke Loyalists would come out in full force "
ur absolutely right again lakertruth... i learned my lesson. I SURRENDER. ( WHITE FLAG)
Posted by: yellofever | July 09, 2009 at 09:33 PM
From a prior thread:
"Lamar is a legend in his own mind ,if he was so great other teams would want him like they wanted Ariza and Brown,to tell you the truth he owes the Lakers for all those years that he was #2 and did'nt show up .Every Gm out there knows that he only showed up in the contract year and he really did not show up that much , in most playoff games he made about 8 pts are less. if he was so good he would not have slipped all the way down to the forth option ,I say that he needs to swallow his pride sign a 1 yr deal at at 5.5 million prove himself of not being so inconsistant than maybe he will see a better payday if not from us than someone else."
The rebuttal:
Regular Season:
99-00 16.6, 7.8, 4.2
00-01 17.2, 7.8, 5.2
01-02 13.1, 6.1, 5.9
02-03 14.6, 6.7, 3.6
03-04 17.1, 9.7, 4.1
04-05 15.2, 10.2, 3.7
05-06 14.8, 9.2, 5.5
06-07 15.9, 9.8, 4.8
07-08 14.2, 10.6, 3.5
08-09 11.3, 8.2, 2.6
Playoffs:
03-04 16.8, 8.3, 2.8
05-06 19.1, 11.0, 4.9
06-07 19.4, 13.0, 2.2
07-08 14.3, 10.0, 3.0
08-09 12.3, 9.1, 1.8
Posted by: CognitiveDissonance | July 09, 2009 at 09:37 PM
to quote Paul Pierce
"it's going to be a really great summer next year"
ooooooo Reallly, keep dreaming "Truth"...it will be for Laker fans though...
LAKERS VS CELTICS 2010
Posted by: jacqueline | July 09, 2009 at 09:38 PM
yo K bros
why didnt you post my last message? anyways to rephrase would you mind please removing that small video link in the right column... kinda sick of looking at dfish big shiny dome everytime i scroll down.
much appreciated. thanks.
Posted by: yellofever | July 09, 2009 at 09:48 PM
Yello,
We have no control over that. It's the tech people.
AK
Posted by: Andrew and Brian Kamenetzky | July 09, 2009 at 09:50 PM
Jamie, I don't think it is surprising or hypocritical for the criticisms of Mitch to have declined. I routinely bashed Mitch, and I think the criticism was well-deserved. The best player in the game was surrounded by guys who were simply terrible. Too often, these guys were given contracts that made no sense at all (think Luke, Brian Cook, Vlad, Smush, etc). The criticism was not of Kupchak the person, but of his specific decisions that were worthy of criticism.
Of course, terrible decisions don't have to be fatal, and things can be done to reverse those decisions. Digging himself out of self-imposed holes is something Mitch does quite well. Extricating himself from Vlad's contract, Cook's contract and, most notably, Kwame's contract, were all works of art. For that, he should be, and is, credited. As a longtime advocate of signing or trading for Artest, who I saw as the perfect complement to Kobe, I give Mitch and the organization huge props.
I see Mitch no differently than I see LO. Lots of underperformance in the past, but tremendous recent production. It's ok to criticize guys for crappy work if you are fair in complimenting them when they perform well.
Posted by: Andrew Bernard | July 09, 2009 at 09:53 PM
The market may not bear $10 million for LO, but we can't lowball him either. C'mon. Per 100 Possessions, we were losing with Lamar on the bench, both over the whole regular season AND in the playoffs, the dude was key for us, very valuable, and a good soldier in terms taking his pride down a notch for the team.
Yet, LO ain't done yet, he's got at least 5 good seasons left, plenty of time for more glory and riches, but if we lowball him, and still expect him to come off the bench, we've seen where that's got him in free agency, he'd be way better off taking a one-year MLE back in Miami with D-Wade, where he'd dominate at starting PF again and be poised to make a long playoff run alongside Wade, O'Neal, and co.
So we can't lowball LO, he's got little incentive to take a cheap short-term deal with us, and would truly show generosity by taking a short-term longer deal, especially when he's got a starting job waiting for him in a city that loves him, and with a superstar former teammate who wants him, meaning there's a GM who needs to please and who also loves Lamar's game and wants him back.
I'm getting worried, because I want Lamar to stay, as a Lakers fan first, but when I consider it from LO's point of view, as a player and hoping to get one more big contract, and hearing about these lowball offers, it's starting to make more sense to sign a one-year deal with Miami, star and showcase himself, and try again in 2010.
Posted by: Critical Beatdown | July 09, 2009 at 10:00 PM
AK - that was a nice exchange with Mitch. HIs answers seemed pretty revealing and honest.
Tom - I think you've shepherded a good debate on the situation. Without knowing what exactly happened or didn't in the room (or on the phone), I'm left with one overall feeling: In the broadest of terms, Team Ariza took a very low percentage shot. Team Artest took a very high percentage one.
I'm left with a certain hope and feeling toward Trevor, who was a stand up guy during the season. I want him to do well in his career and to get past this. I read that Adelman had dinner three nights in a row with him. This tells me that his new coach has some sensitivity to the situation.
As for Artest, there's been a lot of red carpet rolled out. He must be thrilled. I hope his buddy Lamar joins him soon.
Posted by: dave m | July 09, 2009 at 10:17 PM
in my book is still cupcake but this time he cooked up a brilliant one.
and to make it better, i hope he pulls a trevor ariza on LO and will go from there. looks like a whole organization is waiting "patiently" (how long) for the new diva in town. if the championship and ron's presence does not motivate him to go for it he is already damaged goods.
i will repeat: do we want an unhappy and pouting LO?! when anything than a re-peat is inexcusable?
at this moment he is jeopardizing the re-peat. even in chess there is a time limit to make a move. he is beyond that. and in poker, the time limit is even shorter. i hope the FO does not want to be part of this guilty game. somewhere i see KB fumigating.
and BYnum , better put yourself together and get some steel knees. now or never. in my opinion "IF" bynum plays like in dec/jan, LO is obsolete, disposable, redundant and REBARBATIVE.
it will be a great irony, after weeks of "let's sign TA and LO" to have their butts shipped out. the SKY is NOT falling. the worst case scenario, Africa will be represented by the 6'-10 Chinemelu Elonu for under 1 MIL. a great shot blocker.
http://tinyurl.com/ldo4h2
Posted by: ouchhhhhhhhh | July 09, 2009 at 10:37 PM
Dave M,
Ron Artest has been talking a lot and a new thread every time he speaks. He is getting the attention of all Laker fans whereas before it is only the NBA office attending to Artest disciplinary action. In the case of LO, he's hold out in Las Vegas. I don't think his hands are winning in Vegas, heard those new casinos are about to burst from a bubble economy.
When is the deadline for LO's signing?
Posted by: Edwin Gueco | July 09, 2009 at 11:30 PM
Have we evaluated the consequences of what would happen if LO is not signed? Is there a chance for a repeat? I think this kind of discussion would matter to everyone and also to LO, right now he thinks the Lakers are at his own mercy. He's wielding the power in the negotiation. What do we get in dwelling the Ariza debacle? You can't cry on spilled milk, let's move on and prepare for contingency signing if LO departs. It is possible he will hold out for one season and complaining to everyone that his family cannot live with $ 8M, remember that T'wolves player who is not satisfied of his contract and held out, until finally no team signed him again. LO is a good player and the more he delays, his value goes down to MLE level.
Posted by: Edwin Gueco | July 09, 2009 at 11:42 PM
Wes,
>>>If the Jazz trade Boozer then they'll 100% match any offer
>>>Portland makes to Millsap. This leaves Portland still needing that
>>>SF or backup PF.
Ah, but you forget that Portland is in that deal as well. Part of the
deal is that Portland is taking Kirk Hinrich & not giving back as much
salary as Hinrich makes - maybe Blake to Chicago. Portland's part
of the deal is that they're giving cap relief to both Utah & Chicago.
And if you trim even 2 million off of Portland's cap space, then they're
down to MLE level money.
If the Boozer-Hinrich-Thomas deal goes down, Portland is out of the
Lamar game.
Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | July 10, 2009 at 12:04 AM
"just listen to yourself you crazy homer (to LTLF)"
yellofever,
When you say that 4 rings is equal to 6 and 5 rings is greater than we all know how delusional you are to most people here in the blog.
Posted by: KB Blitz | July 10, 2009 at 12:24 AM
>>>so he doesnt make the CURRENT midlevel but ur figures are way
>>>off... ur the one arguing semantics here cause hes damn close to
>>>the midlevel and its going up every year... here's his salary from
Where you're getting lost is this: Luke is in the third year of his contract.
Let's say Trevor had accepted the full MLE level money the Lakers offered. There is what he would make in the first three years:
5.854 million
6.469 million (10.5% raise)
7.148 million (another 10.5% raise.
Luke makes 4.84 million next season, as you pointed out. And he's
in the third year of his contract. Thus compared to the MLE level contract
that was offered to Trevor, Luke would make 2.31 million LESS in his
third year than Trevor would have made in his third year.
What you don't seem to be grasping is that most contracts (including
a full MLE) increase their amount each year.
If you prefer to think in terms of averages, compare Luke's 6 year
deal with the 5 year MLE that the Lakers supposedly offered Trevor.
In the first 5 years of his contract, Luke will make 24 million
24 / 5 = 4.8 million per year.
Trevor would have made 33.8 million for his 5 years
33.8 / 5 = 6.76 million per year
So Trevor would have averaged 1.96 million more per year than
Luke.
No matter how you slice it, Luke's contract averages out to about
2 million per season LESS than they were offering Trevor.
Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | July 10, 2009 at 12:26 AM
Please, let's sign Lamar Odom.
I'm sick over the matter.
Lamar Odom = Laker for Life
Lamar and one other move (I'm going by intuition here, not logic) is key to a Dynasty.
This can be VERY special.
I really love the Lakers and am thankful for all the memories they've given me as a fan and as a Los Angelenan.
What do we play for? RINGS!!!!
Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.
GO LAKERS!!!!
Posted by: Jon K. | July 10, 2009 at 12:29 AM
>>>NO SORRY HES NOT SLIGHTLY LESS THAN AVG. FITS IN
>>>GREAT IN THE TRIANGLE BUT HAS NO VALUE IN ANY OTHER
>>>TEAM.. THEREFORE BY LEAGUE STANDARDS IS SEVERELY
>>>OVERPAID.. DID YOU JUST SAY APPROPRIATELY
>>>COMPENSATED?? OMG! YOU CAN DEFEND LUKE THE PERSON
>>>BUT NOT HIS CONTRACT
Ludicrous. Lots of teams would have use for Luke, and his level of
pay is very reasonable. BTW, it seems like your caps lock is stuck.
Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | July 10, 2009 at 12:29 AM
I am surprised how good I feel about the signing of Thriller.
I thought I would be horrified. The opposite has happened.
It just feels right. I feel like this guy, OUR GUY, has finally been given a chance for real redemption.
Honestly.
It feels good.
This may sound weird and all, but it feels better than the Gasol signing. Of course, signing Pau Gasol was a A HELL of a lot more exciting (it was ecstatic!), but there is something deeper about signing Thriller.
It's like the stars aligning or something.
I am absolutely surprised HOW happy I am that he is a Laker. I honestly feel like he's always been a Laker. It's odd, but pleasant.
Now let's sign Lamar. He's our's too, and should be, we love the guy.
What do we play for? RINGS!!!!!
Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.
GO LAKERS!!!!
Posted by: Jon K. | July 10, 2009 at 12:34 AM
ouchhhhhhhhh,
Lamar Odom = Laker for Life
Period.
His intangibles are off the fricken charts.
What do we play for? RINGS!!!!
Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.
GO LAKERS!!!!
Posted by: Jon K. | July 10, 2009 at 12:36 AM
ouchhh - I'm with you on this whole LO contract already. Unpopular on this blog but if he didn't bring his A game while getting overpaid, why do people think he is going to perform great when he thinks he's underpaid?! Makes no sense. If LO comes back - he could turn into a real big baby and just not be able to mentally get up for games....that is who he is. He now has a ring so the drive may even be less than before. Maybe we need Artest to get LO's butt into gear rather than the other way around!!
Either way - if LO walks Mitch will eventually replace him with the parts that we require for more rings!! In Mitch we trust!
Posted by: DaveW | July 10, 2009 at 12:36 AM
I hope this means nothing, but if u add Ariza's #3 and Odom's #7 u get Artest's #37...
LO!!! Pull out the pen. We must defend!
Did u guys see the "gang green" unity @ the Rasheed Wallace press conference? How can we be patient? They think they still the champs. LO, lets go! The Hunger For More.
Posted by: fLAV | July 10, 2009 at 12:38 AM
yellofever,
>>>did u just said luke is just below league average and trevor is just
>>>a hair above league average?? WOW. so ur argument is trevor is
>>>only slightly better than luke. just listen to yourself you crazy homer
Sigh. It's clear that LakerTom:Bynum = yellofever:Ariza
Yes. Ariza is slightly above average. Playing on a team like the Lakers
made him seem like a very good role player. Watch what happens
next year in Houston when he doesn't have Kobe and Pau and Bynum
and Lamar drawing attention away from him.
Ariza is not Caron Butler. He's more like Robert Horry or Rick Fox.
A very good role player, but no chance of ever being an All-Star.
To yellofever and others who think that Trevor was the reason why
the Lakers won the championship, you're delusional. Kobe and Pau
and Lamar and Fish are the reasons why the Lakers won the title.
Any open shots Trevor got were because his man was double-teaming
Kobe or Pau.
And even the big steal. OH, we NEVER would have got past Denver
if Trevor hadn't stolen that pass at the end of game 1.
But maybe if Trevor hadn't shot like crap for the whole game (2-8)
or maybe if he'd have defended Carmelo a little more (Melo scored
39 points on 70% shooting) or maybe if Trevor hadn't turned the
ball over 3 times (2 of which led to fast break layups by the Nugs),
then the Lakers would have been up 10 or 12 and there wouldn't
have been any need for the Sportscenter-highlight steal.
Don't get me wrong. I like Trevor. I wish he didn't have a turd for
an agent and the Lakers could have re-signed him. I'd be just as
happy with him starting at SF as Artest. Artest is better, but with
Trevor there's no real danger that he'll do something psycho and
get suspended for half a season.
But if you start over-glorifying Trevor's accomplishments, then you're
in for a big surprise when you see what he does without a hall of
famer
and an All-Star to prop him up.
Like I said, slightly above average NBA player.
Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | July 10, 2009 at 12:44 AM
>>>"Last year, Luke Walton was tough enough to injure Perkins
>>>while blocking his shot. "
>>>
>>>HAHAHA.. pure comedy. luke tough enough to injure perkins.
>>>now that is top10 luke hall of shame material.
Watch the game.
December 25, 2008. About 5 minutes left in the first quarter.
Perkins thought he was going in for a clean layup or dunk, but Luke
Got the ball from the side and pushed it back. Perkins missed the next
game (which Boston lost), came back and played weak for about a
week, then re-injured the shoulder vs Cleveland.
It's fact. Go back and watch the play.
Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | July 10, 2009 at 12:51 AM
yello,
>>>"In the 2006-07 season, Luke had averaged 11 points, 5
>>>reboundsand 4 assists on 47% shooting. He shot a higher
>>>percentage than Kobe or Lamar and shot a reasonable 39% on
>>>his 3-pointers"
>>>
>>>how honorable defend luke's 2006-907 season when kobe had
>>>smush, cook, kwame, vlade, mckie
Well how about this then. In Luke's one season as a part-time starter,
he was just as effective as Trevor in his one season as a part-time
starter, and Luke had only Kobe & Lamar drawing attention away from
him.
Besides, it's not a matter of "defending Luke's season". The argument
was that based on that season, an offer starting well below the MLE
was a very reasonable offer.
Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | July 10, 2009 at 12:55 AM
Edwin Gueco, you're right that we should be concerned about this "Lamargate"!
From 14 to 10, now 8 or 7m$, maybe 6. There's still plenty of cash on the table. Incroyable!
Ron Artest said basically this: "If you can't live with 5 m$, you can't live". Plain and simple. They both come from NY. So Guys, talk to each other and share some ideas on how to spend it wisely.
In this league, players and their agents are often too greedy even though this US economy is in totally bad shape, same trend around the world. No, they don't mind... like living in a big bubble! This stubborness (about $) have been a constant for a long period in this league. Many players don't deliver or play to their real potential but they're still complaining about getting more $ to feed their bad habits...sorry family!
My belief is: The more you work hard, the more you'd get a lot from somebody else. That's exactly where an agent should intervene to deal/sell/negociate for his dear client (s) ...some commercials, endorsements, shoes, candies, cars...etc.
This morning, I was in a meeting arguing with different parties who didn't want to elaborate on the best ways to succeed together in the long run. Like several agents, they were always focused on small things, short term view, instant gains...!! I'm dying to know what will be the outcome on Monday.
As a Laker fan, I know that this new salary cap will affect our team and we won't be alone. But it would remind everyone to think twice about their real market value and commitment! Don't be too greedy! Out there, there are many ways to get a compensation for a good work.
LO, think twice. I want you back. Sign this contract!
I'm polishing your second ring that will be delivered on June 15, 2010!
Guy Owanlele
Posted by: Guy Owanlele | July 10, 2009 at 01:10 AM
>>>are you saying lakers had NO BETTER OPTIONS THAN LUKE IN
>>>THE SUMMER OF 2007?? WOW HOW TRULY INCOMPREHENSIBLE
That's right, champ. Here are all of the unrestricted free agents who
signed for the MLE or less in the summer of 2007:
Matt Barnes
Ruben Patterson
Mickael Pietrus
Chucky Atkins
Hassan Adams
Matt Carroll (full MLE)
Jason Kapono (full MLE)
Devin Brown
Eddie House
Brevin Knight
James Posey
Jannero Pargo
Morris Peterson (full MLE)
Maceo Baston
Eduardo Najera
Dikembe Mutombo
Jason Hart
DeShawn Stevenson
Grant Hill
Jarvis Hayes
Smush Parker
Derek Anderson
Jamal Magloire
Calvin Booth
Brian Skinner
Ime Udoka
Steve Blake
Jacque Vaughn
Devean George
Eddie Jones
Jake Voskuhl
Austin Croshere
Dahntay Jones
Jeff McInnis
Bonzi Wells
Malik Allen
Desmond Mason
So I'm sure you're thinking, hey there are some guys there I would
have preferred over Luke. Let's run down the top names:
Posey & House signed with Boston because they already had the
big 3 and those guys wanted to ride coattails for a ring.
Grant Hill joined Phoenix for a similar reason.
The Lakers had just lost in the first round of the playoffs, Bynum was
still considered a bust, and they didn't have Pau yet. So the Lakers
could have just said, "Hey, come play for us, we'll be in the finals."
or the agent would have laughed in their faces.
So who else was left that might arguably be considered better than
Luke - Mickael Pietrus (who hadn't really blossomed yet, but okay),
Steve Blake (ditto), maybe Matt Barnes. So you could have had one
of those guys or one other player from the list...
If you didn't mind not getting Derek Fisher.
The Lakers spent most of their MLE to re-sign Fish that summer. When
you drop the level that the Lakers could offer down to the veteran's
minimum, then all that's left is guys like Smush (no I take it back, Smush
got 2 million per for 2 years).
So basically, yes. Luke was well above anyone the Lakers could
afford to sign that summer.
You've really done you're homework here, yello, haven't you? You
can probably recite every bad play that Luke has ever made (YEAH
BUT WHAT ABOUT WHEN HE PASSED THE BALL BACK TO KOBE AT
THE END OF THAT CLEVELAND GAME... OR WHEN HE...)
You've got yourself in such a Luke-hate frenzy that you're blinded to
any positive contributions by Luke, or his value to the team. You conveniently
forget the facts of all the good things Luke has done. And you don't
seem to understand the math of contracts well enough to make a reasonable
comparison between them.
Trust me. Though Luke is not a star, he's way better than guys
like Smush and Kwame and Radmanovic. If the difference in skill
between Trevor and Luke is a mile, then the difference between Luke
and Smush/Kwame/Rad is a light year.
Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | July 10, 2009 at 01:30 AM
Greetings Lakeshow Fans,
Just thought I would get your “rivalry” juices flowing a bit mid-summer.
Here’s food for thought from the rival Celtics concerning the acquisition of FA Rasheed Wallace (courtesy of boston.com today).
Here’s what Paul Pierce had to say about Sheed:
"I mean, I just think it's a great addition," Pierce said. "We obviously had depth issues last year because of injuries, but just bringing Rasheed in expands the things we do on the court, he fits right in as one of the pieces of the puzzle.”
“I think it's going to be an exciting year. Everybody knows what we're all about, winning a championship."
My take:
The Celtics, minus Garnett, did not have depth issues. Their bench played fine without him (ie. Baby Davis, Perk, House). Excuses! Excuses! Coming from a defending champion? Wow! Pierce and Allen are two legitimate all-stars that simply didn’t get the job done as they were ousted by Orlando in the second round “outright.” Pierce, the self proclaimed “best player” last summer, spent a whole lot of time “talking” about nonsense the entire year and lost. Certainly, he didn’t need KG to help him with the “toughness” factor the rest of the way. Or did he? A former NBA Finals MVP with only "one" ring? Well, who’s got the trophy now? I do agree with PP that it will be an exciting year ahead. We shall see…
Here’s what Ray Allen had to say about Sheed:
Allen said the Wallace deal sends a message to the rest of the league: The Celtics are not to be messed with in the upcoming season.
"I think when Kevin was traded here two years ago, I think people sat back and took notice and immediately pushed us to the top," Allen said. "They were a little afraid of us, and I think the same thing is happening now with adding Rasheed to the roster."
My take:
Interesting thoughts and “message” by Ray Ray. First of all, whenever a team has a collection of multiple all-stars (future hall of famers in that regard), of course it will create a whole lot of attention. What else is new about that notion? Concerning the “fear” factor, I don’t believe it exists any more. What fear? All Ray Ray has to do is look back at a determined Orlando club (Game 7 101-82 loss at their arena), a tough Chicago team (forced to play a Game 7), and the “adversity” driven Lakers team (2-0 against them) last season for further clarity. Besides, teams have gotten better the last couple of weeks. What makes Ray Ray truly believe that they were the only team that improved the most? I’m sure other teams like Cleveland, Detroit, and San Antonio just to name a few will have a lot to say about that situation in mind.
BTW, our defending champion Lakers certainly will as well with a much improved “attitude” and “defense” courtesy of “4 rings” Bryant, Artest and the triple towers in Gasol, Bynum and Odom (signing soon) including the benchmob. Don’t worry Ray Ray, you’ll see how good the association is based on your “toughness” assessment. Again, we shall see…
How you’re feeling about now 131-92, RLC?
Laker pride through ALL and ANY ADVERSITY!
Result? 2008-2009 NBA Champions!
Posted by: Let's Go L's! | July 10, 2009 at 02:55 AM
Edwin Gueco,
I think that the question of plan B is a great one -- I wondered about that before free agency started. Seems like the pickings are slim now for unrestricted free agents; perhaps Mitch would have to swing something imaginative with Odom and another player for a bigger name? But, that could get messy and more difficult.
I hope Lamar at least decides to sign a one year deal, although it looks like 2010 may be worse from a cap perspective, so no guarantee of big money and he would face competition from other free agents.
I personally don't see how the Lakers can repeat without Odom and I don't really want to find out if I am right or wrong!
Posted by: teamn | July 10, 2009 at 06:22 AM
I'm torn you guys. As time moves forward I am wondering more and more if we MUST have Lamar or not. While I really like our starting lineup now, it's the bench I am concerned about.
Lamar gives us a guy that can back up at the 4. In effect, we have 3 guys covering 2 positions. Gasol playing both the 4 and the 5 spot. WITHOUT Lamar, we go to a more tradition team in that we have starters and subs (scrubs).
While I see the signing of Artest as a big upgrade, does this give us enough to go the season without a top notch Bench? If we went through the season like this without Lamar, we would need to depend on Bynum for a big year.
With a more traditional rotation of starters and subs (scrubs), Bynum would need to play alot more minutes, Artest would need to play alot of minutes, Kobe plays alot of minutes, AND Gasol plays alot of minutes. Fisher is the one who still has a back up that can spell his minutes in Farmar and Brown (I hope!).
One of the dangerous obstacles in a rotation like this is the injury bug. When one of the starters goes down then we have no one to really step in and maitain serious momentum. This was NOT the case last year. When Bynum went down, we had a good replacement (Gasol). When Gasol switched to the 5, Lamar was a great replacement at the 4. Without Lamar, we lose BIG TIME insurance. Now the question becomes, is Buss willing to pay WAAAY over the cap for insurance? I dunno guys. In a bad economy, that seems reckless to me.
Buss's commitment to us is to field a competitive team that gives us a chance to win it all. He has done that. Is his responsibility to us that he field a team without any holes? No. Is his responsibility to us that he field a team that is favored to win it all and dominate the league and win 70 games? No.
In some ways, if Buss were to sign Lamar, it would be almost reckless. Yes, there are ways that he could reclaim some of that money by selling out Staples, additional add revenue, additional media coverage (meaning a high level of advertising), and high levels of team merchandise sales. But in a down economy, who knows how much of this stuff will be there?
I admire that Buss is even entertaing making an offer to Lamar. The truth is, we already have the highest payroll in the league (I haven't verified that).
Therefore, I am thinking this may be it for us. Going through the season without Lamar and hoping against hope that no serious injuries occur. Is that a gamble? OH YEAH.
I am thinking back to (1982?) when Worth broke his leg. Magic (AND Byron Scott) injuring his leg (torn muscle?) and out for the finals against Detroit. Then in I think 2003 when Malone had the bad knee and was out against Detroit ( I think we would have won that title with a healthy Malone).
I am also thinking of us being eliminated from the playoffs by a miracle shot in Houston by Ralph Sampson. What if Buss makes a crazy investment in our team and someone gets lucky with the right bounce and we don't win the finals? (Perish the thought!). We had some good fortune this year in the playoffs and the ball mostly bounced our way.
I am just saying that even if Buss were to get Lamar for us, something could happen and therefore make our season an unfortunate one (gasp, a Kobe injury?). THEN what happens to Buss's big investment!
All I'm saying is, it is setting in for me that Lamar may not be able to play for us. Not because we don't value him enough and not because Buss is cheap. It just may very be that it's just plain unpracticle. Therefore signing Lamar would be borderline nuts.
Do I want Lamar? YES! Does he deserve to be here? YES! Would it absolutely STINK that Lamar is not here? YES! Can we win without Lamar? It won't be easy, but YES, we can win.
All of this is just my way of dealing with the impracticality of Lamar being here. It may still happen and we might sign him, but MAN, it's dangerous to sign him for what he's really worth. Therefore, I don't blame Lamar for being bummed. I don't blame the Lakers for taking their time and giving Lamar some space to deal with this. But this is an unfortunate reality.
This may be our team guys. We already may have the lineup for this year. It's the practicle choice and to do otherwise is dangerous and unwise. Maybe we go through the year and make a deal to trade Morrison at some point and improve the rostor for the playoffs. That wouldn't be so bad would it?
Those are just my thoughts.
Posted by: JohnnyV | July 10, 2009 at 07:39 AM
If BYnum is healthy, Lamar is worth maybe 7M, maybe 6M, because he's only going to be getting 25 mpg. If Bynum is going to be out half the year, then Odom is worth probably 9M. That's the big question.
Posted by: exhelodrvr | July 10, 2009 at 07:40 AM
Given economic uncertainty, it behooves Odom to sign for more than 1 year. From a business and self preservation sense. Is it possible that the economy deteriorates further? Indeed it is. My feeling is that this free agency year is the last year of "funny money" contracts like Varajao. Even Marions seems over the top to me (from a strategy of team standpoint given they have Josh Howard, etc).
Next years free agency could end up a bust with most of the big names staying where they are, and playing their asses off this year to earn it. Economic downturns trim fat and excess - clearly by some of this years FA contracts more of that needs to go further in the NBA. Lamar, being relatively well-off, might have been insulated from the economic downturn until NOW. It will be interesting to see what he decides to do. Smart play would seem to be to come down to just above MLE for 5 years (saves face somewhat, Lakers probably would dole out something around there no qualms). Lets hope Lamar has the economic downturn in view, but experience tells me people ignore it until it until it is OMG right behind them kicking them in the butt!
Posted by: Doug | July 10, 2009 at 07:55 AM
LTLF
i totally agree with u on Ariza
and i will add one more thing: at the time when ariza made the 2 steals (besides the fact that in both games the Lakers were up by 2), Le Blonde James was still in the competition. this blog and any writer around the league, will try to blow up beyond proportions any play and any player not named Kobe Bryant. just to take away from him and to make Miss James look better
yes, role players r paid to make great plays. they can be even the stars of certain games. but they r still ROLE players and should be paid accordingly.
1. how about the spurs game when Kobe shot that big 3, put the lakers up by 2 with a few seconds remaining and fish gave mason the And1 foe 3 ponts. Spurs up by 1. Kobe was doubled teamed and ariza WALKED, because he can't dribble to make a lay up and had shit in his pants as closer.
2. the sixers game in LA. kobe made a clutch shot with 8 sec. left. TO. the lakers had a foul to give. ariza was on igualda. and he FORGOT to foul him and Igu made a 3 point shot. great defender. what an idiot, that forgets in 8 sec what he has to do.
but on the last nte, reminds me how LUUUUUUUUUke did the same thing the previous year after a TO. they both suck.
i preached for years that we need a 3 and a PG. finally we have a 3. i hope shannon will step up us the favorite PJ tall guard in the triangle
enough Ariza and spilled milk
if one never attended AA meetings or NA meetings, please organize a TA meeting were the group can make collages with his photos, watch over and over the steals in the denver series, watch how he make 3 points unguarded. with assists from kobe.
while still in the denial phase they can come up with suggestions how ariza can learn to dribble, create his own shot, post up, improve his lay ups, make jumps with a hand in his face, run the fast break and especially defend one on one. barrow melo and turk for practice. just enoughhhhhhhhhhhhh od this media myth.
i really hope that mitch never offered him a contract and just told lee: go find out how much is he worth. indeed he found out.
Larry Brown called him delusional and traded him to orlando. in the game at the garden, the kobe 61 pt game, i was listening and watching the Walt Frazier/knicks feed. ariza dribbled once, got in the air, no lay up, no dunk and it was a TO. immediately Frazier said: he does the same thing from the moment he came in to the league. if he can't dunk, it's a turnover. never improved his game.
i'm pretty sure the delusional ariza, thought after all the media praise that is the second coming of whatever. we all call Lee the bastard in this fiasco. but knowing all this, i'm sure that ariza really believes that he is worth all that and the bag of chips. but the chips r only on his shoulder. let's see ariza the "rocket". in a few months Houston will have a problem.
i never wanted to write all this because i tried to be sensitive to the rest of the bloggers and i was in a great mood after winning the championship. but hey, let's forget about it. especially with artest. it's a NO brainer.
we've see the best of ARIZA in his career in the NBA. his 15 Min. r already up. and yes, only an IDIOT will give his starter position on the Champ team to go play a few more minutes, for less money on a lottery team. i'm sure GM's evaluate a season and a career before giving the money out. also how important the players fits as a piece of puzzle on the team roster. with Artest ready, Ariza became a fire work. now shiny in the skies, next moment just a trace of smoke fizzling against the stars.
my name is ouchhhhhh and i'm NOT an Ariza fan.
Posted by: ouchhhhhhhhh | July 10, 2009 at 08:21 AM
we want ELONU signed for under 1 Mil. 6'-10 and great shot-blocker.
Posted by: ouchhhhhhhhh | July 10, 2009 at 08:24 AM
Lamar is the big man insurance. You have to resign this guy. Short term big money 1-2 years to appease him. Josh Powell can not fill his shoes (granted that they have different skill sets.) We need Lamar to have a stronger chance of doing well during the playoff's and making it to the finals.
Posted by: Charles | July 10, 2009 at 08:40 AM
Good morning CRUE!
Lamar Watch 2009 continues....
and continues....
This waiting is killing me.
We WANT LO. We NEED LO.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD - SIGN ALREADY!!!
We're supposed to be basking in the glow of our victory - not stressing out over getting our most important free agent back.
I"M TRYING TO BASK HERE.
Oh yah - troll people - LAKERS WON!! WE WON!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
Posted by: justanothermambafan | July 10, 2009 at 08:44 AM
exhelodrvr -- Exactly!
LTLF -- really great stuff. Makes a debate much better when someone injects some facts. I'm not a Walton lover or hater -- I think he contributes as a role player off the bench, does some valuable things, and seems to be a pretty good "glue" guy. Ariza was moving to a place that could have been beyond that, but based on limited evidence. Both contracts have to be put in perspective of the year it happened, the state of the team, and the available options.
When the Lakers signed Luke, I did not recall many options (or options wanting to join the Lakers, hence the whole nobody wants to play with Kobe debate), and you confirmed it. With Ariza, a very viable option opened up.
I think what has made Kupchak stand out the past two years is his ability to recognize failure and move to acquire better assets. Will be interesting to see how the summer and the season play out. I could see additional moves of existing players as the season goes on.
Posted by: teamn | July 10, 2009 at 08:48 AM
ex
just read your line with LO 25 mpg. and i was thinking mpg=gpm, gallons/miles. 25 is not enough. we need something more green than LO. elonu under 1 MIL. more efficient. i know, i know that u, Justa and jon k will need therapy. so is BK. but hey, it's summer, it's not spring. u will get over easier.
Posted by: ouchhhhhhhhh | July 10, 2009 at 09:11 AM