More on Lamar Odom
As more news emerges on the Lamar Odom negotiations I'm starting to worry like Trevor Ariza before him, that depending on your POV, LO is either overplaying his hand or pushing his luck. Both Elliott Teaford of the Daily News and Broderick Turner of the LAT report the Lakers offered Odom a choice of three years at $30 million, or four at $36 million. Apparently, the offers have been available for a week, but Odom and his agent, Jeff Schwartz, have been unresponsive.
This, and I can comfortably assume I'm soft-pedaling here, seems to have... um... annoyed Lakers owner Jerry Buss. Now both offers are off the table. The Lakers, Turner writes, believe they were more than fair, and seem confused as to why Odom didn't bite on either.
Frankly, given the market and LO's repeated declarations declarations- some delivered as recently as Monday night- that he wants to stay in LA, I understand the sentiment. Reportedly, Camp Odom is after a deal valued at $50 mil over five seasons... but he's not going to get it. From the Lakers, or anyone else. Given the market and free agent landscape, that kind of offer would be a major surprise. If I'm correct on that point (if I'm not, I'll be happy to apologize), Odom and Schwartz are at best trying to squeeze a few extra million out of the Lakers without much leverage to make it happen.***
Even more curious and potentially disappointing is this line from Turner's report: "Many in the Lakers' organization believe that Odom wants to accept Buss' offer -- and so do those close to Odom -- but he has failed to convince his agent."
Huh?
I'm not inside the process and don't know how true this is- Odom also makes it clear in his conversation with Andy Monday night he feels he has a certain value that deserves to be met, so I doubt he's without a role, here- but to whatever degree it is, there's no excuse. No player should ever have to convince his agent of anything. The agent's job is to serve the player, not the other way around.
UPDATE (9:05 am)- On the subject of LO being unable to "convince" Schwartz, Kurt at Forum Blue and Gold makes a great observation, one I didn't think of last night when I was writing: "That is how you communicate with a player through the media. You give
him an out — it’s not you, we still love you, it’s the agent. As many
have said, if Odom wanted to accept the deal, he just tells his agent
to and it’s over. This is on Odom, he chose not to." As we've talked about, rarely is something said by "sources" regarding a free agent that doesn't have some sort of meaning or motive behind it. This is a reasonable explanation for those comments worth considering.
I don't believe for a moment the events of Tuesday night mark the end of negotiations. Team Odom pushed early, Dr. Buss is very obviously pushing back. Hard. But while it isn't the same sport, remember too that last summer the Dodgers pulled a long-standing offer to Manny Ramirez and started the process from scratch. Last I checked, Manny is still LA's left fielder. This sort of thing happens. We'll know this is done when Odom is in another uniform and/or the Lakers have filled his position. And while I still believe Odom will be in purple and gold next season (though on a few levels it appears I was more optimistic earlier in the evening than I should have been), the news ain't good.
Dr. Buss wants to win, but like Baby, does not get put in a corner.
It's obviously difficult to evaluate a process that has yet to play out fully, but if Odom doesn't return to LA over what amounts to a relatively small disparity in money or because he and his agent overplayed his hand, I'll be extremely disappointed. This from a guy who has been among Odom's biggest supporters, or perhaps because of it. I like the guy on a personal level and place a huge value on what he brings to the Lakers both on and off the floor, but this is starting to remind me of a kid who decides to lick a flagpole in the middle of winter. At best it causes unnecessary pain, at worst he'll never taste his Fruit Loops again.
My dad often reminds me how in life, especially when it comes to financial decisions, the enemy of good is better. The Lakers offered Odom what seems to me to be a good deal.
I worry now that both sides will lose because Odom and Schwartz think they can do better.
BK
***Note: I didn't mention this originally, but as a few people (both readers and members of the media) have noted, the disparity in state income taxes is as far as I can tell a wrinkle worth considering. It's likely not a coincidence that the two teams with which Schwartz is said to have negotiated- Miami and Dallas- exist in states that are tax free. As I mentioned in the first incarnation of Odom Contract Reaction!, Odom is working to secure the best terms on what is likely to be his last large NBA contract. California is in many forms a high tax state, which makes a difference in the bottom line.
I don't add this to negate what I wrote above- I'll still be disappointed if LO passes up a competitive offer from the Lakers to play somewhere else (especially in, say, Portland, where he'd pay a rate similar to California), but the disparity in real dollars makes it a point important to pass along in the interests of fairness and complete information. Not all "same money" contracts are created equal. On the other hand, this is nothing new in the world of sports, every tax seems to have a work-around if you know the right buttons to push, and if income taxes were the only consideration for players, the Magic, Heat, Spurs, Mavs, and Rockets would get every free agent on the market.
By the way, if I'm misinterpreting this information, any of the CPA's in the crowd can feel free to correct me. I didn't major in accounting or tax policy. BK
bye lamar
Posted by: Brett | July 15, 2009 at 02:08 AM
Well... i think it is time to say goodbye to Lamar...
this has gone too long.. and i'm gettin tired of it.. i think Dr.Buss did the right thing.. we should be allright without Lamar..(we wont be as good but we'll be ok).. but I AM SURE THAT LAMAR WONT GET ANY RING OR TROPHY THIS YEAR PLAYIN OUTSIDE LA
GOOD BYE LAMAR...
ps: i wont be happy either if he's changing his mind and signed with the lakers.. a little bit too late.. dont like him anymore
Posted by: what is lamar doin??? | July 15, 2009 at 02:46 AM
there is no room for the greedy in purple and gold nation
bye lamar, enjoy your money
Posted by: domz | July 15, 2009 at 02:52 AM
C'mon, Lamar, don't be like another Trevor. Interest in getting a good deal is something, following on a bad deal maker is something else. You let go on the lakers, you let go on another chance in cementing your name in greatness. You go to another team and you cement your name in anonymity. Just another player who faded away in obscurity...in an obscure whatever team. Another great teammate who got swallowed up by inefficiencies of a so-so team. Go Bonk schwartz guy on the head and tell him what you really want. NOW!!!!
Posted by: Doceide | July 15, 2009 at 02:52 AM
Wow i don't get it how does Lamar feel he is worth so much they have been overpaying him for years and half the time he doesn't show up. He basically has a hard time playing with Kobe on the court and that is one reason they had him come off the bench. Fine let him sign and trade!
Posted by: pk-in-the-mesa | July 15, 2009 at 03:00 AM
Why the hell would he turn down 4 years, $36,000,000? And what is this BS about having to convince HIS agent?!? I'm very confused on these matters.
Posted by: euphoria | July 15, 2009 at 03:00 AM
So long, farewell, auf wiedersehen, goodbye! =|
Posted by: sophia | July 15, 2009 at 03:03 AM
AK and BK hi its been awhile don't post on the times that much it doesn't load very well and still mad that you guys got pulled for dodgers.
Have a great day
Posted by: pk-in-the-mesa | July 15, 2009 at 03:03 AM
you have got to be kidding me. another agent to fire on the damn spot. another player going from elite straight to mediocrity and the Nowhereland Nobodiers.
bye Lamar, good luck. such a disappointment.
Posted by: L.M. | July 15, 2009 at 03:14 AM
I really and truly, from the bottom of my heart mean this: FU Lamar.
That's all I got to say, except maybe that Lamar is so dumb he can taste it.
And greedy, too. And a BS liar. Are we stupid? We ALL heard Lamar say he'll take less to be a Laker and, man, has he not put his money where his mouth is.
We need to find a trade partner with the worst team in the NBA and send him there. As far as I'm concerned, all the good will he built up over the last year is gone. Gone like a mud slide.
What a greedy, self centered, greedy, greedy, spoiled brat. He turned down 4 years 36 million?
Wes to Lamar: FU!
Wes
Posted by: wesjoenixon | July 15, 2009 at 03:20 AM
Is this guy Jeff Schwartz becoming another David Lee? This is getting ridiculous. If all this is true that Dr. Buss did offer such deals to LO, then LO has nobody to blame but himself and his agent. The Lakers, IMO, had offered more LO quite a generous deal. I'm wondering what's Mitch's backup plan if all this falls through and LO won't be a Laker next season. Who's taking his place? It's going to be quite a summer indeed.
Posted by: Exodus69 | July 15, 2009 at 03:23 AM
I think this issue is getting a little overblown--
An NBA gamecheck would be taxable in the state where it was earned. So LO would play 41 games in TX or FL that would be tax free. When the Mavs travel to Staples center CA is going to get their cut. Just like when the Lakers travel to Boston, the state of MA is waiting with their hand out.
CA does have a high tax rate (9.3%)
Let's assume the Lakers played all 82 games in CA. At $9M a year LO would pay $837K in state income taxes. By signing with a TX or FL team, Lamar would pay tax on essentially road games (I'm ignoring the fact that he would have road games within the state). So take 41 road games at $9M a year times a blended state rate of 5% and you get $225K. So realistically we are talking about a state tax savings of $400K-$700K a year. This is peanuts to LO and can be more than made up in advertising opportunities. Not to mention the difference in contract values is 4 to 5 times greater in LA than this tax savings.
This is a rough estimate but in my eyes this shouldn't be an issue.
I hope LO comes to his senses.
Feel free to correct me if someone sees an error in my logic here, I am mainly a corporate tax guy not an individual one.
Posted by: CPA on State Taxes | July 15, 2009 at 03:23 AM
I want so badly to say that the agents are out of control, but this disaster falls squarely on the hitherto admirable shoulders of Lamar Odom.
This one is all on him. I can't believe he's letting his agent decide his future.
This is the stuff dumb people do. No, not dumb people, dumb people do other, dumb stuff which doesn't include giving control of their lives and families to some business man.
No, this is the stuff the court orders to happen to people who aren't mentally capable of providing for themselves.
Lamar, you truly are the NBA's most dumb person, aren't you?
Dumb just got dumber.
Too bad dumb and dumber are the same person, they could be soul mates.
So dumb, even for Odom.
Lamar wants to sign, but his agent wont let him? Hehehehe. Lamar wants his children to go to the same school they've gone to for 4 years and keep the same friends, but his agent won't let him?
I'm so amazed by this horror show I can't turn it off or turn the volume down. I WANT to see how this plays out, how greed and stupidity can bring down a franchise and a player.
I will not look away.
And no anesthesia, please.
Your move Lamar. Oh, yeah, I forgot. It's hard to move without a backbone.
Your wiggle, Lamar.
Wes
Posted by: wesjoenixon | July 15, 2009 at 03:35 AM
Would be interesting to know what Plan B is -- I saw some very fascinating suggestions yesterday on the blog, particularly from LongTimeLakerFan.
Although I personally think the odds of a repeat are much better with Odom than without, it is all about risk and reward. Can Buss really pay as much as Odom wants for five years? Probably not in good conscience. Can Odom accept less than a five year deal, given his age and what will probably happen with the cap over the next year or two? Tough call.
As BK notes, this feels like deja vu all over again!
Posted by: teamn | July 15, 2009 at 03:36 AM
How about Lamar calls up his agent and says, "Get it done or you're fired."
How about that?
Wes
Posted by: wesjoenixon | July 15, 2009 at 03:39 AM
Jerry Buss doesn't play. Remember Shaq? Bye Odom. You were good, but not worth 10 mil in my opinion.
Posted by: ignorance_intolerant | July 15, 2009 at 03:45 AM
I say the Lakers are ok to move on.. Lamar is good, but inconsistent. He will score 19 points one night, then he'll score 6 points the next. People forget about the Phoenix series(s) a couple of years ago when Odom DISAPPEARED and the 2007-2008 finals against Boston he did the same thing. We should put the onus on Bynum, sign Drew Gooden(for 2.5-3.0 mil), maybe add Mikki Moore(for 1m), and move on. Remember folks, we have Artest, who is an upgrade over Ariza.
Go Lakers!!!
Posted by: Dave J | July 15, 2009 at 03:47 AM
I just can not believe how arrogant and greedy the players are in the NBA. The guy is being offered $9 to $10 mil in a year (depending on the deal he would choose) and he is still not taking it. Was it not less than 6 months ago that we all were asking for Lamar to be traded. Now, he thinks he is the MVP to the Lakers. I say the Lakers should go down to the MLE level of around $6 mil for 3 years (that is the max Lamar can get anywhere else) to teach this guy a lesson.
He forgets the fact that by offeing him $30 over 3 years, the Lakers are indeed taking a $60 million hit. That is money out of Mr. Buss' pocket. If I were Lamar, I would jump on it and in fact I would take the 4 year deal @ $36 or even a 5 year deal at $40-$42 mil. Let's not forget the fact that the Lakers made Lamar look good and not the other way around. Give him 2 days and then if he does not take the deal, sign a couple of other free agents out there for a lot less money.
Posted by: Al | July 15, 2009 at 03:55 AM
At this point I'll be really sad if the Lakers sign LO. I'll be really sad that Odom did not get what he wanted - money. If he signs with the Lakers, I'll know he would much rather be with another team making more money. I really hope he doesn't have to come back to LA.
GOOoooOOO LAKERS !!!
Posted by: JohnnyP | July 15, 2009 at 04:07 AM
Please feel free to correct me...Im not joking....
If Lamar Odom was to join the Heat for the full MLE,what hope in hell does he have of beating the Celtics or the Magic or the Cavs?....Are you kidding me?...Is this guy and his agent for real?....I dont care if he got Charlie Vilanuava big contract...I dont care...At some point the player should be able (or to have the Ba-lls) to make the call....
You have 2 choices....Played or get played.....His agent is not as smart as some on this blog have claimed...His agent got played...And if anybody thinks Odom will be the winner out of this,you need to put that bottle down or go get another bottle....Sorry about this rant,but i cant help it...I felt bad when Farve left the Packers,but i got over it real quick...I am going to put my getting over powers to work...Man im really mad...what a load of junk....I hope this agent gets dropped really hard...
Lamar Odom ...WHAT ARE YOU DOING?........WHAT........
Posted by: Thirty2 | July 15, 2009 at 04:07 AM
Folks, don't just complain here, go to Lamar's website,
http://www.lamarodom.com/
and tell him he needs to show some love and tell his agent to agree. Either that or go there and tell him you won't buy his merchandise because he is just in it for the money and you can't be a fan of someone like that.
GOOOoooOOOO LAKERS BLOG CRUE !!!!
Posted by: JohnnyP | July 15, 2009 at 04:14 AM
Wow.
Wonder what the Lakers backup plan is. David Lee?
Posted by: Korey | July 15, 2009 at 04:38 AM
"My dad often reminds me how in life, especially when it comes to financial decisions, the enemy of good is better."
This is really confusing, you may want to rephrase.
Also, I'm really disappointed about LO.
Posted by: jcoeisatwork | July 15, 2009 at 04:46 AM
sign and trade his ingrate a$$ outta town
Posted by: benj | July 15, 2009 at 04:48 AM
He's gone...no way he's comes back now. I just hope he goes to Miami and not Dallas or Portland. And a significant piece to our championship hopes go with him. I'm not so sure the celtics won't be the favorites to win it all now, and I think we'll see alot of critics claim the Spurs (gag) will be the favorites out of the west. Let's hope I'm just being a pessimist.
Posted by: Steve | July 15, 2009 at 04:53 AM
"If Lamar doesn't sign a $9 million contract within like a day, I'd pull the offer and and make a new offer.
$7 million per year, five years, player option at years 3 and 4.
That's about the best offer he's going to get anywhere else. It's getting close to time to put this punishment/incentive to work. The offer isn't going up and can only go down.
Posted by: Tim-4-Show | July 14, 2009 at 08:07 AM "
I saw this coming. BK is correct in seeing this similar to Manny - the tough part is tht we're not even dealing with an all-star. He's also correct about the state tax issue, and I'd expect a comparable offer to compensate for it.
Having said this, I stand by my second prediction that the offers go DOWN from here. If he wants offers from 2-3 teams to compare, it will make it easier for the Lakers. Everyone else offers 6 mill, so we offer 7... Odom is only forcing a showdown, but he doesn't have the cards to win that way
Posted by: Tim-4-Show | July 15, 2009 at 04:54 AM
well we will see who blink first.
Posted by: Marvin | July 15, 2009 at 04:57 AM
The trouble with ego-filled negotiations is that nobody wants to be the "adult" first.
In those cases everybody loses as events start flowing out of control. Before you know it, Lamar is never again in contention for a ring...
and the Lakers have a bench that can only be described as mediocre, and they get to watch somebody else hoist the trophy next June -- and for a few Junes to come.
Without Odom, the Lakers finish third, maybe as far as fifth in the West.
That's a far cry from this dynasty that was supposedly hatching.
Posted by: Jerry | July 15, 2009 at 05:01 AM
v love Lamar Odom
thanks for sharing information with us..
___________________
Jessica
the best price for best entertainment
Posted by: Jessica | July 15, 2009 at 05:17 AM
the state tax issue isn't relevant...many players are legal residents of a different state than they play in, for exactly that reason...LO is already a legal resident of Florida...as was Shaq the whole time he was a Laker (he used to mention it every now and then in the media, as sort of reminder to the CA tax board to stay away from him)...
Posted by: Simon | July 15, 2009 at 05:21 AM
The Walton Bench Mob Era begins!
Walton
Sasha
Brown
Farmar
Powell
and Mbenga
Would be the worst bench in the NBA, maybe NBA history.
*Enjoy the giant Green asterisk on your title and get ready for second round (at best) elimination next season
Posted by: KobeHog | July 15, 2009 at 05:22 AM
i am not too upset about the possibility of lossing LO. too many inconsistent nights, up and down play, mental lapses, inconsistent perimeter shots and he is also not reliable on the free throw line. $9 million for this type of player, I think not and I think Dr. Buss did the right thing. We definitely should sign and trade...but for whom???
As always, I will remain a loyal Laker fan here in Michigan. Take care my brothers and sisters and please don't lose any sleep over this.
MichiganLaker
Posted by: michiganLaker | July 15, 2009 at 05:23 AM
Good read BK. I don't understand the athletes today, they're the talent...they have the power. Why bow down to idiots? Idiots that sabotage you more than they help you?
Frankly I'm starting to wonder what ever happened to winning above all. Not to mention being a man and standing up.
Posted by: Faith | July 15, 2009 at 05:25 AM
DON'T DO IT LAMAR!!!
Jerry Buss is fair, he's also a good businessman. He made a very strong offer to LO, more than I thought he should pay actually. If LO and his agent can't get comfortable with 36 million for 4 years, I'd say buh bye as well.
Time for LO to tell his agent to call it a day. Nobody is going to offer him a better deal than this one. If he wants to play in LA, he needs to accept this offer. If not, he's an idiot and a liar and only cares about the money. I don't think LO is either of those things, so I think he'll come around now. If not, he'll leave the Lakers for less money.
That would be tragic. Lamar doesn't need anymore sorrow, he needs to enjoy his life playing with Ron Ron and trying to win championships in the city he loves.
This is a no brainer. Lamar will be signing soon. Just don't see how this can get away. Lakers are playing this
fair and strong. Only bad guy if this goes south will be Lamar and his agent.
Sign on the line that is dotted Lamar!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: Mikefloss | July 15, 2009 at 05:28 AM
WOW, 3 years at 10 mil and 4 years at 9 mil...Buss is one of the best if not the best owners ever. Way MORE than fair. Later Lamar and oh yeah don't let your agent hit you on the backside.
Stupid Lamar....stupid..Stupid...STUPID.
Buss.....and Mitch my full and sincere appreciation. You more than treated the Lakers, Laker fans, AND Lamar right. Not anything more than you can do. You offered him way more than he could have gotten anywhere else. Applaud both the offers and now taking them off. If not Lamar directly but 'Team Lamar' treat you like they are, they do not deserve ANY offer now.
Go make 5 mil Lamar....in NBA no where land, it is what your stupidty deserves.
Posted by: LarryofLA | July 15, 2009 at 05:34 AM
On an earlier thread, I posted my thoughts that the position taken by Lamar and his agent were insane. Dr. Buss' move to pull a fair and reasonable offer off the table in light of the other side's intransigence supports my opinion.
It was interesting to monitor the posts throughout the day Tuesday. Without taking a hard count, it appears to this observer that as the day wore on, the tide here on the Blog seemed to be turning away from Lamar, just as it did in Dr. Buss' court.
As BK so astutely noted, as in the case with Manny, the Lakers' withdrawal of an offer doesn't mean "game over." But the message to Lamar is clear: Put up or shut up. Did Jeff Schwartz not see what happened to Trevor Ariza?
Allow me to disclose that I do not earn $9M a year, so my point of view is obviously skewed. That's plenty of candy bars. As a fan, I firmly believe that an offer to play for the Lakers has value in and of itself. The opportunity to play for Phil Jackson and with Kobe Bryant has value in and of itself.
If Odom chooses to play anonymously in the far reaches of the NBA shadows instead of in the spotlight of Staples Center, that's his choice. But it is a bad choice. As each hour passes without an acceptance of the Lakers' terms, the choice gets closer to being made for him.
As I've screamed at the TV more than once when Lamar's game turned comatose, "Wake up, Lamar!"
Posted by: Rick Friedman | July 15, 2009 at 05:44 AM
Those that don't learn from the past are doomed to repeat it. It seems beyond belief that Lamar could see what happened to Trevor and basically let a similar thing happen to him. There is a show whose Wedding is it anyway? Is it the bride and groom or the wedding planner, yeah ok I have watched one or two.
The point is with both Trev and Lamar it seems like their agents are in complete control and the players and their carrers are being held hostage. This is not going to work out well for you Lamar. Buss is NOT McCourt. He has what now 9 championships? I think those offers are gone...bye...bye. I truly believe the Lakers care for their players and make fair offers. When Buss gets treated like this, see yah.
For a couple of million Lamar LET his agent thwart more than fair offers to play where he would have had a lot of happiness? Don't cry for Lamar Los Angelenos..not what you do when someone shoots himself in the foot...with a golden bullet no less.
Posted by: LarryofLA | July 15, 2009 at 05:49 AM
How much smarter does Artest seem compared to both Ariza and Odom?
At least Artest is the one driving his own career. This handing over of one's career to an agent is beyond comprehension to me.
I don't get it. If Lamar sits by and does nothing now that the offer has been pulled--if he doesn't make his agent take one of the offers--I can't be on his side anymore. I can't support him, no matter how good he is.
9 million a year for 4 years isn't good enough?
3 years at 30 million + the first 2 years of the next contract he'll sign (mid level) will be about 47 million dollars.
If he signs a 5 year midlevel with another team like he's posturing to do, he'll make 32 million over that same 5 years.
That's a loss of 15 million, Lamar, though I know you can't count or read.
Good luck with that, my man.
Can people with tweet please tweeter Lamar with the word GREED.
Thanks.
Wes
Posted by: wesjoenixon | July 15, 2009 at 06:00 AM
What happened to the hometown deal Odom siad he would give? He IS overplaying his hand, and I do not blame Buss. Odom could order his agent to accept the offer. If Odom wants to go, then go. Ariza made a poor decision which Odom would then be emulating. It is easy on this blog to point the finger at Buss and spend HIS money. Let the hardball begin....
Posted by: rc | July 15, 2009 at 06:03 AM
We should see if we can trade AM, JF and 2nd round draft picks for Carlos Boozer.
Posted by: keen observer | July 15, 2009 at 06:06 AM
$9 Million a year for 4 years is a great offer.
What the hell is Odom thinking?
Is he so passive that he can't order his agent around? Common, Odom, stop being a numbskull, airhead. Show some balls.
Fire your agent.
Posted by: James Katt | July 15, 2009 at 06:07 AM
Mitch is not a passive G.M. He hasn't been idly wringing his hands all week. I bet we start hearing substantial rumors about sign and trades in the next 48 hours.
So Lamar is back or Boozer(?) is a Laker by the end of the week.
Posted by: CarlosB | July 15, 2009 at 06:17 AM
Take the money LO!!!!
It's a luxury for a team to pay 9M+++ for a 6th man.
Posted by: PipoY | July 15, 2009 at 06:26 AM
Wow, I'm really glad all of this information is finally out. Personally, I think both of those offers were more than reasonable and completely discredit the rumor that the Lakers were in the $7mil range.
Lamar needs to look at the Ariza situation and reign in his agent if he's the one controlling all of this. If he does choose to go elsewhere for less money, so be it. I'm sure we can find a suitable replacement for a 6th man.
Posted by: EastCoastJessie | July 15, 2009 at 06:27 AM
See ya!
Posted by: Don Smith | July 15, 2009 at 06:39 AM
Sad news indeed. Perhaps LO has a change of heart and goes for the "Pot of Gold" instead of follow-up with his post Finals' oral comment.
Perhaps LO and his agent would come to some sense this week and accepting the Lakers' more than fair equitable and fair offer made to him this week.
Posted by: Wallace | July 15, 2009 at 06:46 AM
BK,
As I said yesterday, 5 yearsfor $50 million is a non starter. for the Lakers. It won;t happen. I also said I'd rather overpay in shorter, 2-3 year deal to keep a key piece of a championship team, and Bynum insurance, than take on a long term deal on an soon to be aging player whose reputation for working hard is not great. And if it is longer term, it has to be for less money per year.
Well, there it all is in the Lakers' offer. $10 million for 3 years is, in this evironment, overpaying for Odom on a shorter deal. It is, actually, a better offer than I assumed was on the table for LO. And he can add a year, but it costs him $2 million/year.
This is as good an offer as LO can expect to get anywhere. If he wants to play, here s chance to win and to play in LA. I honestly don't see why he hasn't snapped up this offer.
His agent is talking LA for granted and playing the field. Buss was right to snap the offer off the table and create a little urgency. If we lose LO now, it will be a lifestyle choice for him. Maybe he wants to be in Miami. Maybe now that he has a title he's not hungry for another. Who knows.
But LO said he wanted to be back and he has beeen given every chance to return. It's time to call Dr. Buss and tell him "I'm reeady to sign, let's go."
CA income taxes on a guy like Lamar are huge (12% on top of federal taxes last time I looked). But come on, $10 million for 3 years and playing for a contender is a good deal. If he leaves now, he wants to leave.
Posted by: Tom Daniels | July 15, 2009 at 06:51 AM
Now, even more so - adios, Lamar.
I hope you and your agent live happily ever after.
Posted by: lurker | July 15, 2009 at 06:54 AM
And don't let the door hit you on the way out.
Posted by: rudylarusso | July 15, 2009 at 06:54 AM
Lamar like Ariza is too greedy for his own good, how many people are suffering out there now bec they don't hava any money, they don't have any way of getting the most basic needs of a person to survive in day. An here we are these spoil bunch of players getting to do what they love most and getting paid for it, worry about getting more more more and more. Hey Lamar many people are starving out there and that is the real world!!!! Greed might pay off in this life, but not the next. Thinks about that, and think of how lucky are, quit being a fool change your greedy ways!!!!
Posted by: Frankie | July 15, 2009 at 06:58 AM
Don't care.
Posted by: Magia32 | July 15, 2009 at 06:59 AM
I am a CPA, so here's the scoop - The Tax Foundation, a policy research group, ranks the states based on overall taxes paid - check out the link at; http://money.cnn.com/pf/features/lists/taxesbystate2005/index.html. In summary, Californians pay 10.3% of their income in taxes (including sales and real estate taxes), while Floridians and Texans pay 9.3 and 9.2 respectively. In addition, when an athlete plays games in California (no matter his state of residence) he pays state income taxes for that state for the income he earned there. Personally, 1% difference in taxes is not enough to make a difference in his decision. Seems to me you got it right - dude needs to tell his agent who the boss is.
Posted by: Mr Ed | July 15, 2009 at 07:00 AM
Most of us work 8 to 10 hours a day and don't even make 100 k a year and here is an average player who is not happy with 9 mil. Something is wrong with the picture. Lakers should say goodbye to Lamar. They can sign someone good for vetran minimum. Don't put up with his BS
Posted by: Eternity | July 15, 2009 at 07:03 AM
First let me be clear - I want Lamar back, and I have not turned on him because of these negotiations. This isn't over and he's still more likely to stay than go.
Second, I think the Lakers made the best offer they SHOULD HAVE for Lamar. If they want to sweeten it to get him over the top, I would prefer adding $1 million / year to the 3 year offer over adding years, which I think will have us all whining about his contract 3 years down the road..
As players age they need to work out harder to stay in chape and they need to add skills to offset lost athletic ability. I would not bet $8-10 million per year in years 4 and 5 of this deal on Lamar keeping himself NBA ready as he ages. Off season working and adding new skills has not been Lamar's thing. He still doesn't a have a great move to his right.
Finally, if Lamar goes away it will be bad news. But life will go on. The Lakers will still have a great starting 5 and will find a way to make the bench competetive. Role players (guys below the top 2 or 3) change out over the course of a championship run.
Norm Nixon for Byron Scott seemed like a tragedy at the time. The 80's Lakers ran through power forwards liek water - Landsberger, Rambis, Kupchack, Green, Lucas. They also chaged out that key PF/C role off the bench - Chones, McAdoo, Thompson. They even went through 3 coaches - McKinney, Westhead and Riley.
What was constant was Kareem, Worthy, Magic. And Coop.
I'm not saying Lamar would not be a big loss. He would. And I know the Lakers don't have an MLE to go out and get someone. Plan B will be tough. But in pulling the offer, the Lakers have bascially said that they have one, and they are ready to go with it.
Posted by: Tom Daniels | July 15, 2009 at 07:07 AM
lamar, 9 mill for 4 years is plenty enuf to get all the jolly ranchers, snickers, and skittles that you want.
sign the dotted line!!
GO LAKERS!!
Posted by: David Whang | July 15, 2009 at 07:13 AM
Way to screw this up Lamar.
You've got one more chance. Time to get down on your knees and beg forgiveness.
Posted by: Mayor of Kobe Town | July 15, 2009 at 07:16 AM
AK/BK
Any reason why no comments getting through?
Posted by: LAL_Fan | July 15, 2009 at 07:17 AM
Great move by Dr. Buss. All Schwartz is waiting for is to see if Utah matches for Millsap or not. I hope they don't because if he comes back to the Lakers with NO LEVERAGE AT ALL, you might not see that offer back on the table.
He's going to use Portland's cap space to drive up the Lakers price. Good move if it works, if not, he's going to look really, REALLY bad.
Posted by: Andrew Z | July 15, 2009 at 07:20 AM
stupid stupid. why *pull* the offer? odom is inconsistent but who's going to fill that gap if he goes? hard ball negotiating lost a proven contributor (ariza) for an experiment (artest). if you're in control of the negotiations then you don't need to pull childish stunts.
i'm disappointed.
Posted by: conejito | July 15, 2009 at 07:24 AM
LAMAR!!!!
WAKE UP!!!!
PUT DOWN THE BAG OF GUMMY WORMS!!!
FIRE YOUR AGENT!!!
DO IT NOW!!!!
Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | July 15, 2009 at 07:26 AM
First of all, a big high-five and bravo to Jerry Buss standing firm.
Secondly, I cannot for the life of me understand why LO would turn down 4 years 9 mill.
Now, I have to wonder whether the Lakers are (A) still genuinely open to bringing back LO, or (B) set on finding a replacement, ostensibly keeping the door open, to return the favor to Team Odom of being kept in limbo while valuable time leaks by.
Personally, my best hope is that it's (A) and that LO comes back at 3 years & 8 mill.
I"m sure Scenario B will be debated all day, and I'll enjoy seeing what you guys come up with.
Finally, I wonder what Kobe thinks about all of this?
Posted by: Laker Kev | July 15, 2009 at 07:40 AM
As pissed as I am at Odom, I bet this is difficult seeing he just got done playing (finally) at a peak level, and he's going to get paid less than what he got in Miami. That's got to suck. But overall, SUCK IT UP DUDE. %12 of the people in LA don't have a job and you're pissing and moaning about getting 8 or 9 million dollars a year to bounce an orange ball. What the crap?!? And you're on the Lakers! I'd play for them for FREE!
Cheers everyone. Maybe it's time to bring in a Veteran Center instead.
Posted by: Ben | July 15, 2009 at 07:44 AM
Things are getting weird right now. We need LO to maintain our bench and big man depth.
Posted by: Xodus | July 15, 2009 at 07:46 AM
You guys all know Jerry Buss. Jerry Buss doesn't play games. He makes an offer that he considers fair (in this case 3/10/30 or 3/9/36) and that's that. If you blow him off or treat him without the respect he's earned he's done with you, end of story. Countless former Lakers from Shaq to Ariza have learned this and no one is above the Laker family. Hard to argue with the guy's track record either.
Lamar is done as a Laker. I wish him well, but I think Dr. Buss made the right decision.
Posted by: KBeat | July 15, 2009 at 07:50 AM
CA CPA
If he lives in Miami and works for a team in Miami, CA is just a business trip for him. He payes Miami taxes. Which is zero.
Tom
Posted by: Tom Daniels | July 15, 2009 at 07:50 AM
Wow, there are a lot of ruthless fans who don't seem to like Lamar at all now. I agree that it seems ridiculous from this standpoint alone.....9 mill a year!!!! Taxes, oh OK take close to 10% of my money, I'll be OK for a little while.....(right!?!?!)...but let's not forget how much he HAS done in the time he has been with the Lakers. Now if you want to say we can get some one else that'll give us the same numbers on the court.....that's BS. When you combine the skills of Lamar, and the Lakers offense and lineup, there is no better fit for the Lakers. And he DID show up for the playoffs, or does that not count? He played through injury, came off the bench, kept the bench mob in line when they couldn't throw it in the ocean.....and so many want to throw him In the ocean as if to say....don't mess with the Lakers like that. What happened to the whole, this is just business, nothin' personnal line from everyone.
I find it ironic how a lot of fans cry beg and plead for loyalty from the players, yet they are the first ones to throw away a main cog in this championship machine we have in the Lakers!!
Posted by: ctinsb | July 15, 2009 at 07:53 AM
Jerry , the consumate poker player, has withdrawn his offer to Lamar, calling his bluff. We all knew this was coming. After Shaq and Ariza's bluffs being called what did LO expect? is he and his agent so dumm? Showed low class trying to talk around the league when the Lakers went out of their way to be fair.
Yesterday when we blogged we all thought the offer was 9Mx3 and generous. The actual offer on the table was even more generous, 9Mx4 (or 10Mx3).
Now LO will have to accept less if he wants to get back to the table. Boggles the mind. How can something like this happen?
Baywood
Posted by: Baywood | July 15, 2009 at 07:53 AM
So far, the vote on this blog:
Jerry Buss 100%
LO 0%
Baywood
Posted by: Baywood | July 15, 2009 at 07:54 AM
Kambros.... if you hear ANYTHING about a plan B, please share immediately.... mitch has to have a plan B & C....
man this is really messing up my summer euphoria.... dammit....
Posted by: xyz | July 15, 2009 at 07:58 AM
Very disappointed. I have to believe that Odom does want to stay here and be a Laker for less. I also have to believe that Lamar's agent thinks if they can wait it out a little, the Lakers will budge and offer more. Problem is, Dr. Buss is quite the poker player and isn't going to fall for it. This could be bad...
Lamar should come out make a bold statement and fire his agent, sign with the Lakers and drink champagne on lakers.com like Shannon and Artest did.
Lamar is a very very VERY important key to the Lakers success, we can't let him get away.
Lamar = Laker for Life
GO LAKERS
Posted by: mrbarneydangles | July 15, 2009 at 07:59 AM
Tom Daniels -- careful, you are a voice of reason amidst the madness!
I'm amazed at the level of vitriol toward Lamar, and to a lesser extent, Buss. Regardless of what we want as fans, these guys have to do what they think is best for them, now and in the future. I don't have all the details that goes into their decisions, so kind of hard for me to get really personal.
I think that the Laker offers to Odom appear to make sense for both parties, at least from my perspective. So something must be possible that has Odom holding out.
Phred -- good stuff on the blog yesterday.
Posted by: teamn | July 15, 2009 at 08:00 AM
All I can say is "stupid is as stupid does." Freaking greedy moron and his dumbass agent. Both can star in the movie "Dumb and Dumber".
Posted by: Exodus69 | July 15, 2009 at 08:09 AM
You want to know why the next offer will not be as high?
Because LO, will get traded in the next 3 seasons and they need that contract to be tradable. 9 mill/4 yr is barely workable, and would probably have to be packaged to entice someone.
When LO signs for 7 or 8, his contract is much easier to move, and unles LO himself contacts Buss to apologize for this, he will get moved.... eventually.
To you guys saying "just sign so-and-so"... the Lakers can't sign anyone except for the vet minimum. We burned our MLE and BAE, so there's nothing left until next summer.
Posted by: Tim-4-Show | July 15, 2009 at 08:11 AM
Get rid of LO, and sign free agnet David Lee. He is more consistent than Lamar and more aggresive. Can the Lakers afford to sign him?
Posted by: Juno | July 15, 2009 at 08:12 AM
LO is stupid and he will learn his lesson like Ariza. Hasta la vista Lamar! He will paly for less money and for more years, Reality check. He will learn how much he is worth now!
"Lakers team officials, who were not authorized to speak about the negotiations, said Buss offered Odom a deal for $9 million a season for four years at $36 million, or $10 million a season over three years for a total of $30 million.
Odom and his agent, Jeff Schwartz, were looking for $10 million a year over five seasons.
Neither Schwartz nor Odom could be reached for comment Tuesday.
Team officials also said Buss was not happy that Odom and Schwartz have been talking with the Dallas Mavericks and Miami Heat President Pat Riley about a deal, but have refused to talk to the Lakers.
The Heat and Mavericks can offer Odom only the mid-level exception of $5.8 million, but can give him a five-year deal up to $34 million."
Posted by: dr turk | July 15, 2009 at 08:13 AM
Mitch may very well be looking at the Boozer situation, but it's still too early to speak with Schwartz about that... Lamar is truly waiting on Utah to match Millsap's offer
Schwartz probably told Lamar to wait until Portland is forced to offer him Hedo's money, and then he can hardball the Lakers
But I just don't see this happening even if Utah matches...
Posted by: Tim-4-Show | July 15, 2009 at 08:14 AM
>>>Feel free to correct me if someone sees an error in my
>>>logic here, I am mainly a corporate tax guy not an
>>>individual one.
I'm not sure, but that doesn't sound correct. I think if you're
an employee of a company based in California, then you pay
tax on your full income in California. Just because you play
games in Illinois and Florida and New Jersey doesn't mean
you pay income taxes in that state. Any more than if I did
42 business trips to various cities throughout the year.
Posted by: LongTimeLakerFan | July 15, 2009 at 08:16 AM
LAL Fan-
My guess is we were sleeping. We do that.
BK
Posted by: Brian Kamenetzky | July 15, 2009 at 08:17 AM
LO is doing the same thing TO did. why are letting the agents make all these bad decisoin.DR. Buss made a good deal to LO.DR.Buss is the best owener is all sports he pays her players and his loyal. LO get your act right. look at all of famer playser that have jobs with lakers, Magic,Brain Shaw,Kurt Rambis,Stu Lantz,Mychal Thompson,and GM Mitch, etc.
Posted by: rashaad | July 15, 2009 at 08:19 AM
Well, my personal feeling is that Jerry Buss is the greedy one. On a money scale of 1-10, Jerry Buss is a 10, while Lamar Odom is a 2. Lamar is holding out for a couple more years of security. Buss is trying to save 3-4 million dollars per year. A literal drop in the bucket for Buss, the owner and money maker for the greatest, most popular basketball franchise in the world.
So who's the greedy one?
Unfortunately for Lamar, he's playing a game that he cannot win. His best bet would be to sign for 3-4 years @ 8-9 million and remain a Laker.
Do it for the fans Lamar.
Go Lakers!
Posted by: Rocky | July 15, 2009 at 08:20 AM
No I don't think it is bye-bye, the real negotiation is just starting. The offer is on the ta ble 36M 4 years, take it or leave it. Then, SILENCE. For me that is an excellent move. The more we talk, the more we become vulnerable in kowtowing to the wishes of his agent. When you are fishing, you throw the bait where the fish are and stay calm, someone will bite in due time. However, if you keep on moving and throwing the line so often, even the fish get confused on your intentions. Let it settle down and leave it there. I think LO is checkmated. Where will he go?
Second move should be more daring. Throw another line to communicate to all PF and SF out there. I said in my previous post time to go younger on guys who are willing to play with the Lakers without a huge strings attached. Do it thru minimum route, S & T or package trade. Now that LO cannot move higher, make him uncomfortable that he is dispensable.
Posted by: Edwin Gueco | July 15, 2009 at 08:23 AM
Okay here is another situation, trade LO to Utah for Boozer. KB24 wanted Boozer and Artes back in the days, now we have Artest, time to complete the perfect lineup.
Posted by: Juno | July 15, 2009 at 08:27 AM
Lets see:
10 million for 3 years. Will be 32 when the contract expires
Gets to play for the best franchise in the NBA
Significant chance to add to his legacy with more championships
Gets to play with his childhood friend
Plays under the best coach in the NBA
Camaraderie with teammates is assured
Lucrative endorsement opportunities
Yeah, I can see why Lamar wants to play elsewhere...
Posted by: jwbrent | July 15, 2009 at 08:27 AM
The Lakers are taking a page out of the Dodgers' playbook. They did the same thing with Manny last winter: They offered him a reasonable short term deal, but he and his greedy agent held out becuase they thought they could get more money for more years... and eventually the Dodgers took the deal off the table. Then, when Manny realized he wasn't going to get more money elsewhere, he came back and accepted the original deal. Hopefully L.O. opens his eyes like Manny did before it's too late.
Posted by: Eliezer Ihejirika | July 15, 2009 at 08:27 AM
From my understanding, even if you get taxed in California, you get to deduct your state income tax paid in your federal tax returns. So even if Lamar pays $1,000,000 in state income tax, he gets to deduct that amount from his adjusted gross income. He does this by filing a schedule A (itemized deductions). A person with his income will NOT take the standard deduction and instead will itemize. Either way, the taxes paid in the state should not be an issue. I think the issue is greed, or that he wants to be in a team where he's a starter. He's just not making smart decisions right now.
Posted by: joe | July 15, 2009 at 08:30 AM
Jerry and Mitch:
Good for you for pulling the offers. Disrespect and greed should never be rewarded.
We still have a team that will contend with the best in the league.
Roll the dice and move on.
Posted by: jwbrent | July 15, 2009 at 08:30 AM
>>>So Lamar is back or Boozer(?) is a Laker by the end of
>>>the week.
I seriously doubt it. The reason Utah wants Boozer out is that
they want to reduce salary so they can match the Millsap offer
without going into luxury tax.
In other words, they don't want contracts that expire next
summer, like Morrison. They want contracts that expire now.
The Lakers don't have any partially guaranteed contracts
they could trade.
Posted by: LongTimeLakerFan | July 15, 2009 at 08:33 AM
"Many in the Lakers' organization believe that Odom wants to accept Buss' offer -- and so do those close to Odom -- but he has failed to convince his agent."
HUH???
Posted by: Charles | July 15, 2009 at 08:34 AM
Odom:
1) Saw what happened when an agent tried to strong-arm the Lakers, and still decided to try the same tactic. Dumb.
2) Said he would take less to stay. $1M less and 1 year less doesn't seem like much to give, yet he's holding out for each. Dumb.
Lakers:
1) Didn't want to have Odom take their offer and use it as leverage to garner other offers, so they pulled.
2) Will find plenty of veterans to fill Odom's spot, be it Jerry Stackhouse, Ben Wallace, Tim Thomas, etc.
Posted by: AKA Scottie | July 15, 2009 at 08:35 AM
Can we trade Bynum for Boozer? lol
Posted by: Taliq | July 15, 2009 at 08:38 AM
After one agent namely David Lee screwed his client and still got paid royally; here come LO's agent who does the same thing. Isn't it amazing both of these idiots represent Lakers' players. Talking about lightning strikes twice. About the report that LO wanted to sign but failed to convince his agent; I am baffled because LO is the boss, why would he need to convince the idiot he employed? One last word, the offers (30 mils for 3 yrs and 36 for 4) are more than generous, since LO has been very inconsistent, he only showed up in this year playoffs whereas the disappearance he pulled in previous playoffs and still got over 11 mils (14 mils 08-09 season) which is way overpaid.
Posted by: CTran | July 15, 2009 at 08:38 AM
Sign me up for the LAMAR FIRE YOUR FRIGGIN AGENT Bandwagon PRONTO!
Posted by: utzworld - THE BANNER HOLDER | July 15, 2009 at 08:42 AM
Rocky,
You realize that, if the Lakers lose in the first round next season, they will lose money? That means that they anticipate still being in the red through the regular season, and are depending on playoff games for the profits. That is hardly being greedy.
Posted by: exhelodrvr | July 15, 2009 at 08:42 AM
Wes,
>>> How much smarter does Artest seem compared to both Ariza and Odom?
You noticed that the phone call from Mitch was a direct call to Ron whereas neither Trevor nor Lamar seems to have talked to Mitch directly, only through agents.
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | July 15, 2009 at 08:44 AM
here's my two cents nobody is asking for:
* genius move by kupchak signing artest.
* with ariza and lamar (and their d-league agents) chasing the highest/best offer they won't find elsewhere, sounds like kupchak knew he was dealing with knuckleheads and made sure to get a talented player in artest instead of just hoping ariza and lamar would come to their senses.
* ariza ended up looking quite foolish in his move to houston thanks to his idiot agent.
* as for lamar, the guy simply thinks he deserves more than what is being offered. and he's dead wrong.
* in the end, i think lamar was just playing the "nice guy" role in saying he wants to stay in l.a. - i think lamar really wants out of l.a. with a guaranteed starting spot on a team with less pressure than the lakers...most likely the miami heat. i mean the money he wants is here in l.a. - yet his agent is busy talking to the heat and mavs...
lamar seems like a great guy, a bonehead, but still a nice guy...sounds like his bonehead side is doing the thinking right now...
with a big four of kobe, thrilla, pau and socks - i am ready to roll.
lamar was a luxury anyways, not a necessity. while artest cannot replace both ariza and lamar, he gives the lakers almost both of their skill sets in one player.
we'll have to play with guys we have, and they ain't too shabby.
Posted by: tha show | July 15, 2009 at 08:45 AM
The NBA... where greed happens.
Posted by: Eliezer Ihejirika | July 15, 2009 at 08:46 AM
ODOM IS A FOOL…
If the following report from the Paula Duffy for the Examiner.com is accurate, Lamar Odom is a bigger fool than Trevor Ariza:
“It appears they had a deal on the table for $9 million a year for four years or, at his option, a contract at the pay rate he was seeking, $10 million but for a three year span. It is reported that Odom is looking for five years and the Lakers have walked away from the negotiating table he and his agent went into radio silence for the better part of a week.
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | July 15, 2009 at 08:47 AM
I read some posts dated 7/15/09, urge LO to sign on the dotted line. Well there is no dotted line to sign now, since the offers were withdrawn after sitting lonely on the table for a week w/o any response from LO and his agent. During that week LO's agent talked with Dallas, a team that only has the MLE to offer. If it was intended to pressure the Lakers, it is laughable. Amazing what these idiotic agents would do.
Posted by: CTran | July 15, 2009 at 08:50 AM
Is it ridiculous to worry that Kobe's agent will do something to piss Buss off and negotiations will break down in that scenario as well?
Nobody takes a paycut, not Ariza, not Odom and definately not Kobe. Having said that I think both Ariza and Odom got fair offers but I aint gonna open my mouth and criticize them for making w/e move they feel is best financially for themselves. Their priority is to their family not the lakers, and it is not up to us to judge what will be sufficient for their fam, that's up to the players.
At this point I say the lakers lose Odom and play with the team they've been dealt with ... we can look for an inseason trade (hopefully 1 that sheds sasha/farmar as well) or use the MLE on a FA next season when the economy might provide even more bargains out there.
All eyes will be on Bynum and his contract to carry their share of the load ... the spotlight is on you young money ... without Odom, I have no choice but to believe that baby bynum will be a beast next season ... itz d only way we hold off the competition till re-inforcements are signed next off season
24 + 16 + 17 = The Purple Tinted Golden Age
Posted by: Taliq | July 15, 2009 at 08:51 AM
Charles,
"Many in the Lakers' organization believe that Odom wants to accept Buss' offer -- and so do those close to Odom -- but he has failed to convince his agent.""
That is probably the Lakers giving Lamar an "out" - publicly they are saying it is the agent's fault at this point, not Lamar's. (From Kurt on FB&G)
Posted by: exhelodrvr | July 15, 2009 at 08:51 AM