Mitch Kupchak on the Lamar Odom negotiations, plus a little more Ron Artest
After the day's festivities with Ron Artest had concluded, Lakers GM Mitch Kupchak
answered some questions regarding LA's final free agent
concern of the summer, Lamar Odom. The negotiations haven't exactly zipped along, but
as I wrote the other day, nothing about the landscape has changed to indicate Odom is on his way out. The feeling Wednesday around the training facility in El Segundo was that the Lakers wouldn't have a) signed Artest or b) used their
mid-level to do it, leaving them no viable avenue in free agency to
replace Odom should he change ZIP codes, without believing a deal could be made.
That Odom and Artest are friends dating back to childhood doesn't hurt, either.
Kupchak said he didn't have a gut feeling about the end result, but as he has all along used the word "hopeful" to describe his outlook. "I can't be any stronger," he noted, "and I'm not sure how strong a word that is. But I am hopeful. I think we have a chance now."
Q: Because of Ron, or because overall things have settled in (with the market)?
That answer will obviously prick up some ears. Whether it's posturing, a statement of financial fact or a little of both, Kupchak is saying that had the team been forced to go above a mid-level to re-sign Trevor Ariza (as was reportedly the request of Team TA), they'd have lost the ability to bring back the other guys. Given the size of the team's projected payroll, I tend to believe it.
Do you feel the talks have dragged on a little?
Can you talk about why this one has taken a little longer? Is it a question of the market settling down? Some other dominoes needing to fall?
Call it a hunch, but I believe taken in context his categorization of
Schwartz as "quiet" is a compliment, relative to the fractious, swiftly
public Ariza talks.
How much did LO's negotiations come up when talking to David Bauman (Artest's agent) or Ron?
Hopefully it doesn't come to that. Again, among the people Andy and I talked to people at the press conference, including some with a good feel for the situation, nobody seemed to think a deal wouldn't get done. Maybe not tomorrow or Friday, but reasonably soon.
A couple more Kupchak Kwotes...
On Shannon Brown: "We want to see him with another training
camp, because he came here and got a lot of minutes on the fly, which
is hard to do considering what we do offensively. And with a veteran
group, it's not that easy. So that was encouraging. And we saw him
make progress as the season progressed, and he's also young. I think
he's 23. That's as good a gamble as you can get in a young guy."
On bringing back Josh Powell and DJ Mbenga: "You're not going to get a better player at the back end of your bench than those two guys."
Regarding Artest, it was interesting to speak with Bauman after the press conference to talk about the process that brought the Tru Warrior to LA. Bauman said could have explored different and viable ways to get Artest more money, but on the other hand, noted how in this year's market those who don't have a chair "when the music stops" could be S.O.L.
Someone will be left out in the cold. Had Artest gambled and lost he'd be facing perhaps a one-year deal for at or maybe even less than the mid-level, or a longer deal on a bad team.
That wasn't an outcome Artest wanted. "He had said that if I can't go (back) to Houston, I want to win," Bauman told the media. "When we realized the Lakers spot was open and may not be open for much longer, we quickly came to a conclusion. My job as his agent is not just to get him the most money but the right fit. In this case, the right fit wasn't for the most money. I could have spent several weeks exploring sign and trade options with Houston. Once the Hedo (Turkoglu) situation went south with Portland it kind of re-invigorated those talks, but at the end of the day this was the right fit."
Bauman seemed confident Artest could recoup any potential profits he left on the table via off-court opportunities, but to me that's not really the point. It appears both agent and client recognized the good deal in hand financially (as Artest said in his press conference, "if you can't live on $33 million, you can't live,") and professionally (it's become clear over the last few days to anyone with access to the Internet that Artest has wanted to be a Laker for a while and is highly motivated to win some jewelry) rather than get caught up in a hypothetical-but-certainly possible better offer in the bush.
In the end, everyone is happy, including the Lakers.
One final note: The deal is for a full mid-level. Five years, with Artest holding the option for the fifth, worth just under $34 mil. There was confusion in reporting across various media outlets. Like most fans, I preferred the terms originally floated by many of 3/$18 because it eliminated virtually all elements of risk to signing Artest. It goes without saying, yet here I am saying it anyway, there's more potential for sadness near the end of the deal for a guy who will be in his mid-30s when the contract expires. Fortunately, the relatively reasonable financial terms mean if Artest's play goes downhill or he's not a great fit as time passes, the penalty isn't crippling. Not ideal, but certainly not a game changer.
I can see how those two "extra" years would make people nervous, though.
But assuming for the sake of argument Artest acclimates well and embraces his role with the Lakers- obviously if things don't click from the get-go it opens up a whole mess of issues- the good news is he's fastidious about working out and because his game isn't above the rim, shouldn't be expected to decline all that rapidly. Even if he loses a half/full step defensively as the years go on, Artest is such a big, strong body that he'll always be influential on that end in one form or another. There's a good chance as years pass he'll remain productive relative to his cap number.
Of course, that's not what motivated the Lakers to sign him. This move is about the here and now, and squeezing out a few more rings over the next few seasons. Clearly not everyone is on board with the decision, but while my concerns about Artest have little to do with his temper (he's not going to start another brawl or tear LA's locker room apart) and everything to do with his transition to a far more complimentary role on offense, what I saw from him Wednesday was impressive. For all his quirks- and there are many- it's hard to find people who will call him a bad guy, or question his work ethic.
If his stated desire to win a ring is an act, it's an Oscar worthy one. Artest is hardly in denial about past behavior, copping among other things to being too emotionally immature as a young player and, in a bit of candor rare for a pro baller, being a "bad teammate" in Indiana, or his desire to prove to people that he's grown as a man. The Lakers are an established squad with a strong coach and a very clear pecking order Artest understands and appears to respect.
Put it all together, and the risk is calculated and the reward strong. I'm more than willing to focus on the positive rather than wait for things to come off the rails. If they do I'll admit I was wrong, but until then why assume the worst?
BK
(Photo, Ron Artest and Mitch Kupchak- AP)
"Yeah, I don't think if we had gone down the other avenue and been in a position where we had to agree to something that we think didn't make sense then I'm not sure we'd be in a position to bring everyone back. So I think now we have a chance."
That answer will obviously prick up some ears. Whether it's posturing, a statement of financial fact or a little of both, Kupchak is saying that had the team been forced to go above a mid-level to re-sign Trevor Ariza (as was reportedly the request of Team TA), they'd have lost the ability to bring back the other guys. Given the size of the team's projected payroll, I tend to believe it.
so...if ron artest hadn't existed, at the end of the day we'd rather have TA than Odom?
is that what mitch is saying? No, i don't think so, but then again, I believe LakerTom. Oh, nevermind
Posted by: phred | July 09, 2009 at 01:29 AM
Good post BK, thanks for the updates.
Ron strikes me as the yin to Kobe's yang. Kobe is calculated and ever conscious of maintaining his image. Ron is enigmatic, unpredictable and shockingly forthcoming. Kobe is about precision and out-thinking the opponent. Ron plays off the cuff and overpowers opponents. But together they're fiery competitors who work hard and want desperately to win.
I'm starting to like Ron "The Billdog" Artest more and more.
Posted by: puddle | July 09, 2009 at 01:44 AM
Freelance camera man Ryan Miller talking about how his footage of LeQueen getting dunked on was confiscated.
http://tiny.cc/zV59u
Posted by: RevPnG | July 09, 2009 at 02:06 AM
Welcome T (thriller) - Dawg Ron!!
Posted by: Lil_jef_pinoy | July 09, 2009 at 02:39 AM
The Laker's greatest luxury tax would be not to win 2 to 3 additional Championships with Kobe's career at peak. LO is worth an additional $7 million in luxury tax. Without him the Laker bench would be clobbered by the Celtics, Spurs, Cavs, Blazer, Magic, & Portland benches. LO is unselfish, plays the 4,3 & even 2 positions, is one of the best rebounders on the team, good passer, great speed for a big man and decent defender. Hope Mitch & Dr. Bus realize that 2 to 3 championships could be financially more rewarding than an additional $7 million in luxury tax. While Kobe sacrifices a lot, giving up a couple of million a year to keep LO may buy him twice that amount in endorsements with 3 additional championships!
Posted by: Ross | July 09, 2009 at 03:02 AM
"The Billdog."
Now that's funny...
Posted by: longtimelakerlover@yahoo.com | July 09, 2009 at 03:22 AM
I hope we keep him...remember at the start of the season it was mentioned that Odom didnt work out over the summer?...I do...At the time i thought he should have,but going by the way he finished off the season first with Denver(injured game 5) and then in the finals it was pleasing...I think he would be that cog that would allow a faster group to contend with high octane systems...
Pau,Odom,Ron,Kobe and Farmar or Brown....For the slower systems Bynum plays the 5 and Pau the 4.....we need the guy...Even for guys like Sheed and Dyce playing as the 6th man to counter that spark...Or foul trouble like saw during the finals........
Posted by: Thirty2 | July 09, 2009 at 03:29 AM
BK
it is interesting that Lakers always took risks compared to other teams. no pain, no risks, no game, no gain.
i just picked up a book "the politics of subversion". i feel that the lakers players r a little bland in interviews. fish represents the union, kobe is PC as the nba and nike person, gasol is too analytical and pedantic, TA was like dead, and odom shy. finally we have a very good player who will be interviewed almost daily, and even if he cares sometimes, has the freedom to throw ironical or sarcastic jabs and make people laugh. " if you can't live on 33 mil, you can't live".
i like this subversive touch that iRon brings especially that is backed up by work ethic and professionalism.
it's fanny that Californians who live in an earthquake region r worried about a Ron Artest outburst or technical. also a little comedy and drama is welcomed by Hooywood. a basketball movie with a more intricate subject is long overdue. and life will transcend reality in his case.
do players get any percentage from jersey and other items sold with their name?! iRon will become a great seller. and Dr. Buss knew that.
IN ARTEST WE TRUST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LGL 2010 CHAMPS
Posted by: ouchhhhhhhhh | July 09, 2009 at 03:32 AM
puddle
great angle on the TWO Warriors!!!!!!!!
Posted by: ouchhhhhhhhh | July 09, 2009 at 03:34 AM
Marion signed for 39/5 years @ 7.8 each
this year he was payed 17.9 MIL. it is correct. i consider Marion a bigger choker than LO. he totally disappears in the playoffs.
interestingly, he was also a Shaq-value exchange for Miami.
he took a loss of 10.1 mil just to play and 4 teams messed around to make it possible. Cuban made it possible.
proportionally to Marion and based on economy, the NBA market and the NEED for LO, LO will have to take a loss that will bring him down to 6.1 from 14. maybe the Marion trade with a huge loss in salary, compared to artest from only 7.4 to 6, will signal LO that this is an unlucky period in the NBA and his personal career to cash in.
at this moment, LO looks like the older ugly sister/bride who is refusing any prospective groom that is showing up. and when she decides that it is time to take anyone, there r no more visitors left.
Posted by: ouchhhhhhhhh | July 09, 2009 at 03:34 AM
do the lakers really want an unhappy, pouting LO?!
i'm sure he thought that his versatility trumpeted by the media made him the man, after he joined the Lakers. (his midget brain on sugar- no hate or sarcasm)
after 2 years he conceded that to Kobe. and bynum came along but got hurt and LO was still fantasizing. but Gasol came along and LO sledded as the #3-4 option. after one more year he accepted his place on the bench but still had minutes. by this time his brain was crème brûlée. and ouchhhhhhhh, Ron Artest, his own friend from child-hood is digging his grave. the lowest point of his career. #4-5 option. but Fisher was the hero of the Game 4. LO never made or won a game in his life. another ouch.
well, now there is that 7'1. what will it happen if he will recover?! or if he gets back to let's say 15pt-8-10 reb.and he understands his ROLE? LO will be option #5-6
but there is no option 5, 6, 7 on any team. or they just don't count them as options. pretty depressing for LO. with the presence of iRon he just became a REAL BENCH player. life can be a beach. and he likes beaches and walks in Malibu.
looking at the Lakers-Clippers dynamics, the Clipper's Franchise player is nothing but a Lakers bench warmer. If you don't believe me, please revisit the Jimmy Kimmel show with the Lakers after the Finals and pay attention to the "homage" Jimmy made to the Lakers step sister team in the NBA - that little wood carriage and the mule. (for some reason, it's how i remembered it)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9OkMq8oShg part 1
clippers @ 0:30 http://tinyurl.com/nngc97 part 2
how will LO approach his preparation and game with an entourage of Fish, Kobe, Artest, Gasol, Brown and others.
will LO be the X-factor with his "intangibles" or just the ex-factor?
Posted by: ouchhhhhhhhh | July 09, 2009 at 03:36 AM
Call me a rat because I'm about to be the first one off the Lamar ship.
I hope the Lakers haven't offered him over 6 million a year, because though he's talented, he's muy inconsistante. If we offered him 8 million a year and he's still holding out for more, he's dumb and reckless.
If he signs a one year deal to get more next year, I say we combine his expiring deal with Morrison's and bring in a player we can count on. How much money does the guy want, and how much smarter does Artest seem than Lamar right now. Maybe it's the lack of 10 pounds of peach gummy rings a day.
No, Artest has his head in the right place, Lamar needs to take his head out of his—ahem—and sign with LA.
Or leave for the same money we offered, just like his buddy Ariza. Don’t let the door and my foot hit you on the way out Lafarce Odom.
Wes
Posted by: wesjoenixon | July 09, 2009 at 04:39 AM
Yeah, I'm still trying to figure out the rhyme or reason for some people thinking the Lakers intentionally low-balled Ariza to get Artest.
They're essentially saying that Mitch is lying when he said his first priority was to bring the team back intact. That position gets even more confusing when you realize that even though the Lakers really wanted Artest over Trevor, they still spoke with Trevor's camp and essentially said he was worth no more than the mid-level to them. So people holding to the conspiracy theory have to believe that the Lakers would have turned down signing Ariza for the mid-level if his agent agreed, because if they didn't then they must really have wanted Ariza. But then that doesn't fit with the conspiracy theory, so that can't be it.
Posted by: Mike | July 09, 2009 at 06:37 AM
K Team,
Does the NBA allow teams like the Lakers to be creative in structuring contracts? Is it possible to back load a contract paying more towards the end of a contract to meet the requirements of a strong contributor like LO? Certainly, the Lakers will have more money available when contracts for players making less contribution expire.
Jim Mulry
Posted by: Jim Mulry | July 09, 2009 at 06:51 AM
I read Plaschke then I listened to Ron.
Plaschke is a hater taking Ron's words out of context.
I am going to enjoy Ron's comments during the season immensely. Not a dull momemt.
Baywood
Posted by: Baywood | July 09, 2009 at 07:20 AM
You mean Yang to Kobe's Yin? Since Yang means hot, it tends fit better with Arest and Yin means more cold and calculated which fits Kobe more :-)
Posted by: panlion | July 09, 2009 at 07:22 AM
No excuse for the Lakers not to bring in LO, now.
We underpaid last year for the money we ended up making. We were 5th and way under NY, Dallas and Cleveland:
As expected, the Lakers paid $7.19 million in luxury taxes from last season, fifth-highest among NBA teams. New York paid $23.7 million, followed by Dallas ($23.6 million), Cleveland ($13.7 million) and Boston ($8.2 million). Portland ($5.9 million) and Phoenix ($4.9 million) also paid luxury taxes
Posted by: Baywood | July 09, 2009 at 07:22 AM
I apologize for being so relatively off-topic , but my access to the blog has been pretty spotty lately, and as a student and teacher of Shakespeare, I just couldn't let this one go.
Kobefan in Cupertino, where do you get off blasting Jon K for not including Cardenio and Love's Labor's Won in his 37 plays of Shakespeare?? Neither play exists today, and people can only guess at their contents, or if they ever existed in a performable state at all. There could have been many, many other plays of Shakespeare that have been lost, but you don't count those as part of the canon.
Two Noble Kinsmen has only very recently been widely accepted as being co-authored by Shakespeare, so the real, official number of extant Shakespeare plays in the canon is 38, but for most of history, 37 has been the correct number.
Just because you found a list somewhere on the internet doesn't mean you have to take it as an opportunity to assert your supposed intellectual dominance over someone else. I found your responses to Jon K.'s posting incredibly rude and pseudo-intellectual. You obviously have an imperfect understanding of the subject yourself, so where do you get off assailing Jon K.?
My access to the blog has been restricted somewhat because I am discovering that caring for two babies at once is much more than twice as hard as caring for one baby. The boys are a month old now and doing well... they will be just old enough to take to the parade next June.
In response to an earlier inquiry, I like Thriller for the Artest nickname. It would be tight to hear the first few chords over the sound system. Also, they could play Vincent Price's laugh at the end of introductions - that would be tight.
Peace to the whole Laker nation. Can we take some advice from the late Mr. Jackson and...
...start with the man in the mirror?
...be careful what you do?
...heal the world, make it a better place for you and me?
Posted by: SBPimp | July 09, 2009 at 07:23 AM
I am concerned about the length of the contract, particularly given the projections for future salary caps and luxury tax levels. Decisions made over the past few years (which I can understand to some degree) have tied up scarce dollars in bench players. I hope that two or three years from now the Lakers aren't stuck with the same problem with Artest's contract.
The burden has really shifted now to Lamar. Is he ok with about $6m a year? And if not, do the Lakers think they can win another championship if it turns out they traded Odom and Ariza for Artest? That would put a lot of pressure on Bynum.
Salary cap sucks...
Posted by: teamn | July 09, 2009 at 07:30 AM
Five years could be an issue, I certainly hope not. My sense watching Artest this last few days and learning more about his history is that as long as things are going well (Lakers are winning , he is getting attention for playing his role, life in LA is all he expects), this will work. If times get tough, I think that is when Ron gets discontented about his pay, his role, Gasol's shoes, whatever.
Five years also ensures he will play multiple years with his next coach (I see Phil wanting to coach two more years if all goes well), and this makes selecting Phil's successor more difficult.
This also means we have bought the aging Ron Artest. This will change what Ron will have to learn from Phil and Kobe. As you age, you need different skills. Let's call them Luke Walton skills. Ron will have to become a smarter player, a better passer, better at positioning himself on the floor. These kind of skills helped Harper and Shaw and Fox stay productive as their athletic ability waned.
He certainly has the tools to do all these things, it just a matter of him buying into them. If he does, this will be a great deal.
Posted by: Tom Daniels | July 09, 2009 at 07:50 AM
It's time for LO to put down the Jolly Ranchers and re-up..
Portland is going for Millsap, Bass, or Lee, and I could'nt really see Lamar dealing to well with all the rain and the whiny clingy Portland fans....Even the attractive MLE options are dwindling...
With LO signed we are absolutely better than last year...Artest will be better against Pierce or Lebron - Orlando will not get by Boston or Cleveland.
And regarding David Lee's post Artest spin....If the Lakes never offered a contract - how was their offer so insulting?
Posted by: Sean | July 09, 2009 at 07:53 AM
Re the notion expressed in the one prior thread that Powell can replace Odom, well, when Powell comes close to being the player in the videos below, then kindly wake me for the end of our world, as that's what it'll be, apocalypse.
First video up, the early years, and kindly note the slam on Kobe starting around 1:12:
http://tinyurl.com/ma47wm
And see Lamar going end to end there, and so as Pat Riley understood, Lamar is the only soul who came into the league who could be Magic Johnson. And I don't know whether Lakers fans appreciate the matter or not, but the in-house match up would be:
Kareem - Bynum
Rambis - Gasol
Worthy - Artest
Magic - Odom
Scott - Kobe
Who would you put your money on, straight up? I can't say, but I'd dearly love to see Worthy versus Artest and Magic versus Lamar [the other three matchups have the potental for a gross abuse, so not so intriguing].
For the second and last highlight reel to demonstrate once and forever that Josh Powell will never be Lamar [and kindly note the move that Lamar puts on Yao starting at :38, and what was it Chick once said, something about the popcorn machine?]:
http://tinyurl.com/lmc28x.
As I said, when Powell does that, wake me for the end of our world. And sorry that some of you clearly don't remember the Lamar pre-Lakers era [see video 1 again]. And if you're looking for consistency, and at a high level, try Feb. 08. Or for the microcosm of the month, try Feb. 8, 08 at Cleveland. Now back to sleep for me, since Powell is never going to have a Feb. with 15, 6, 6, 17, 18, 19, 20, 7, 17, 14, 8, 9, 19 rebounds.
Posted by: CognitiveDissonance | July 09, 2009 at 08:08 AM
"My job as his agent is not just to get him the most money but the right fit."
If only Trevor had such an agent.
Posted by: km | July 09, 2009 at 08:09 AM
Re Plaschke’s article on Ron and Kobe clashing like Shaq and Kobe. I get his point – that both Shaq and Ron have some of the same qualities. However the biggest point Plaschke is missing – and probably the most important quality Kobe looks for – is the difference in their work ethic. Like the K Bros. have pointed out – there are legit concerns over Artest being able to co-exist, but Kobe seems a lot more likely to get along with those that work hard and do what it takes to win. I am not aware of anyone that has questioned Thriller 37s work ethic or indicated that he was a locker room “cancer”. So what he barked at the young PG’s in Houston…so what, I have seen Kobe bark at players on his team – even Pau – my choice for second best player on the team.
If this pairing of Ron with the core squad (including Odom) works well – watch out. Artest can take a load off of Kobe, defensively and offensively. Ron being surrounded by such a strong cast of players will mean teams cannot afford to focus on him like the Lakers did in this years playoffs – especially once Yao went down. The Lakers forced him to do things he was not capable of. Does anyone honestly see Kobe and Pau becoming the second or third option to Ron?
Can a team afford to double team Kobe, Pau, Lamar, Bynum and Artest? With Pau, Bynum and Odom behind him – he can be more aggressive on the perimeter. On the other end he can shoot the 3 well enough or take his man down on the block at times. I like the comparison with Rick Fox. I was never that big of a Fox fan, but he provided good tough defense and could knock down the three well enough to keep teams honest. I would say Artest is a better player than Fox overall and certainly more capable of handling guys like Melo or LBJ.
None of us know how this move will play out, but I like the gamble. I think Ron will fit in, the Lakers will win – win a lot – and Ron will be happy. Guys like Ron don’t like to lose and I would say some of his issues have been a result of being on teams that weren’t winning, with guys that don’t give it their all night in and night out. Reminds me of Kobe – Smush, Cook, Kwame – all guys that didn’t put it all on the line. Kobe seems to respect that Sasha works hard – he sucks – but he works hard. It seems to me that the Lakers have surrounded Kobe with dedicated workers – not always the best talent but guys that work hard. By all accounts Ron works hard so I say (as Mitch does too) give the guy a chance to work in with the group before passing judgment. And as for Plashke mentioning Kobe’s reference to this squad being different not better – it is as honest an assessment as you can get. It is different – the Kobe, Shaq, Malone, Payton team was great on paper but how did that work out for them? He has been there before and knows that what looks great on paper doesn’t always work out in reality. Kobe is looking for a challenge and this will be a new challenge – making adjustments to a system that worked this year for the championship. I, like some others on the blog like the “freshness” of this challenge – it pushes everyone outside the comfort zone of what worked and trying to find a new way to accomplish the same goal.
As John K always says “What do we play for? We play for rings!” Amen Brother. Amen.
Eagle Boy
Posted by: Eagleboy | July 09, 2009 at 08:25 AM
"My job as his agent is not just to get him the most money but the right fit."
Take notes David Lee.
Posted by: Pig | July 09, 2009 at 08:29 AM
i am ecstatic that we landed artest. his toughness and ability to create his own shot will be assets next season. not to mention, we finally have a legit tough guy we have been lacking since shaq and big shot rob left years ago...
yet i still feel pretty down about ariza heading to houston. poor kid looked like a lost soul in his houston press conference yesterday. as if he's asking himself, "how did it get to this point?"
i actually hope ariza improves his game (creating his own shot, dribbling), and has a great career...maybe he eventually fires lee and returns to staples...who knows?
check out the ariza press conference:
http://www.chron.com/common/special/07/templates/listpop.html?mcVideo=28890968001
props to ronron37 aka thrilla (please quit using thriller).
and best of luck to trevor.
it's all about tha show, c'mon lake show! get odom signed...
Posted by: tha show | July 09, 2009 at 08:37 AM
Hopefully, with a new $33M contract in hand, Ron Arrest will be able to feed his "best friend"!
Feb. 5, 2007 : Placer County Animal Services seize Ron-Ron`s Great Dane, because the dog was not being fed. Fortunately, the animal was placed in protective custody with a local veterinarian.
Posted by: RED`S LOVE CHILD | July 09, 2009 at 08:38 AM
Props to Ron's agent Bauman.
"When we realized the Lakers spot was open and may not be open for much longer, we quickly came to a conclusion. My job as his agent is not just to get him the most money but the right fit. In this case, the right fit wasn't for the most money. I could have spent several weeks exploring sign and trade options with Houston. Once the Hedo (Turkoglu) situation went south with Portland it kind of re-invigorated those talks, but at the end of the day this was the right fit."
Posted by: Charles | July 09, 2009 at 08:43 AM
Omg i dont understand how are people upset about this?
Ron Artest will finally be Kobes scottie.
With Pau n Bynum up front Artest guarding the best player on the other team they should breeze through.
I love ariza he was the glue to the Lakers but Carmelo wont be blowing us up in next years playoffs n Kobe wont have to go down to rim to "wrestle with a bear"
Posted by: newjerseysteve | July 09, 2009 at 08:45 AM
Mitch: "Maybe it's helpful for (Lamar) to see other players sign, and sign for whatever they signed for and maybe it's easier to see where you fit in with that group"
TODAY's Signings -
Marion 7.8 mil per year
Varejao: 7.1 mil per year (plus incentives)
Sorry Lamar - yes emotionally and for what you've meant to us you deserve 10 mil a year. But everything is worth only what the market will bear - just try and sell your house and you'll see what I mean. So I think in that light an offer of 7.5 mil a year is more than fair. Maybe 7.5 mil going to 8 mil if we win another Ring.
Pony up Jerry, accept it Lamar, and let's GET ER DONE!
Posted by: Jay Jay | July 09, 2009 at 08:47 AM
Eagleboy,
great take.
as for the kobe, shaq, malone and payton experiment: it actually got them to the finals...which wasn't a complete disaster, still a disappointment.
i still think the lakers could have beat the pistons that year, despite malone's injured ankle and payton's damaged ego...too bad a still immature kobe chose that finals to be his coming out party and jacked up too many perimeter shots...while an ignored shaq was still very effective down-low.
kobe wanted to go outside-in, when the lakers bread n butter was inside-out.
live and learn i guess...
welcome ronron37 aka thrilla
Posted by: tha show | July 09, 2009 at 08:49 AM
While I think the big question with Artest will be the chemistry issues, there's one BIG incentive for him to be on his best behavior:
The Lakers just won a championship with Ariza. They'll be under a microscope all next season. If Artest messes things up, he'll forever have the reputation of the player who messed up a championship-caliber team and ruined Kobe's chance for a repeat (in the process PO'ing a billion Chinese fans).
Artest knows this--he may be crazy but he's crazy like a (Rick?) Fox. That doesn't mean he won't rack up Ts or get tossed out of the occasional game, but I doubt he'll do anything that will actually hurt the Lakers in the long run.
In a way, he'll be like Starbury for the Cs last year, who came in with the reputation as a cancer (some people here almost literally cackled when he joined) but played good soldier for them. Of course, Artest will be far more effective than Starbury, but the attitude will be the same. Maybe another example is 'Sheed joining the 03-04 Pistons, which spurned similar predictions of a meltdown. We all know how that turned out.
That being said, chemistry is more than a player just not melting down on the court. Last year's team had a team mentality (even if sometimes it was "As a team, we're not showing up today"). The biggest question is how Artest affects this.
We'll see.
Posted by: Scott | July 09, 2009 at 08:52 AM
>>> Jerry Buss is a tight wad and morally insidious gambler.
Jose.
Tightwad?
Do you even have a tiny inkling of a clue what you're saying?
Buss is one of the least affluent owners in the league. Paul
Allen is worth 20 billion. Mark Cuban is worth 1.8 billion.
Glen Taylor (owner of the Timberwolves) is worth 2.1 billion.
But despite that, Buss is already paying the HIGHEST TOTAL
PLAYER SALARY IN THE LEAGUE!
And he's made an offer to pay Lamar as well. An offer that
will likely put him at risk of losing money on the team for next
season.
Jerry Buss is the least cheapskate owner in the league. In fact,
he's a freakin' philanthropist who has time and again spent
the money it takes to build a championship team.
If you don't like Buss then go cheer for the Clippers and get
that weak stuff out of the Lakers blog.
Posted by: LongTimeLakerFan | July 09, 2009 at 08:54 AM
Wes,
"Call me a rat because I'm about to be the first one off the Lamar ship. "
so be it ... effing rat ... now walk the plank or our swords strike u on the way out
The Odom watch continues ... we remain hopeful
Posted by: Taliq | July 09, 2009 at 08:54 AM
puddle,
>>> Ron strikes me as the yin to Kobe's yang. Kobe is calculated and ever
>>> conscious of maintaining his image. Ron is enigmatic, unpredictable
>>> and shockingly forthcoming. Kobe is about precision and out-thinking
>>> the opponent. Ron plays off the cuff and overpowers opponents.
>>> But together they're fiery competitors who work hard and want
>>> desperately to win.
Outstanding take, puddle. Thanks.
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | July 09, 2009 at 08:58 AM
First Griffin wears Lakers purple on draft night, now Ariza as a rocket and wearing Laker purple. I guess that is his way of saying his agent messed up and he would rather still be a Laker.
Eagle Boy.
Posted by: Eagleboy | July 09, 2009 at 09:05 AM
It was reported sign up or decide early within 3 days, Lakers have to trade players and/or get F/A minimum salary of $1M. Hey, that $1M used to be the role of Shannon Brown and looked what we have found. I still go with LO with his ambidextrous ability to go to the hoop and great in rebound. It would be a waste if he'll go for another team while his childhood friend is here in his backyard. But his asking price of 10M is way off with the new rules today, the prevailing economy and the current situation of the Lakers. Please LO come back to earth and be realistic with your asking price. On both camps, they are in Limbo making a balancing act of preparing for the deadline signings. If Lakers will delay in making decisions, they will miss the good F/A that are still available. If LO will wait for 10M lotto that he's aspiring, he might sign up later on with another team at MLE b/c Lakers has replaced him, it another Trevor travesty. It is no brainer that LO has to decide today or tomorrow but don't extend it up to weekend.
Posted by: Edwin Gueco | July 09, 2009 at 09:11 AM
Good Morning Charles....Good Morning Everybody....
well I am still wondering what Mitch's plan B is if indeed we can't get Lamar signed...
Millsap? Brandon Bass? Mitch has a challange ahead of him, the first part of course is signing Lamar, and if that doesn't happen, he needs to come up with a viable alternative with options that are rapidly shrinking daily...
I would think he is working on some trade senerios as well in the meantime...
Mitch has really stepped up and improved, becoming one of the leagues best GM's, hopefully he will continue that welcome trend...
I can't take much more of this waiting around--at least summer league is starting soon...
"floating down the stream of time, from life to life with me, makes no difference where you are, or where you'd like to be..."
"actually I'm a gynaecologist..but this is my lunchhour"
AS ALWAYS, AS EVER, YET ANOTHER GREAT DAY (AND CHAMPIONSHIP SEASON) TO BE A LAKER FAN !!!
GO LAKERS !!!
Posted by: Floyd | July 09, 2009 at 09:14 AM
Future LA LAKERS player in training:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzCdimrNHbI&feature=related
Posted by: NBA Scout | July 09, 2009 at 09:17 AM
Ron Artest is not hoodalized but glamorized by his new home. He is the equivalent of loquacious and comedian Shaq. I'm not worried with Kobe and LO, it is the other Lakers like Bynum, Walton, Farmar and Vujacic and most probably Pau who have to accept RonRon. They are the finesse players who are not used to rough and tumble defense or aggressive offense. Here is another strong character teammate who could affect the dynamics of their games. With Kobe and Ron, there is no room for softness or lackadaisical type of games, it either kill or be killed their objective is to win, hobnob with celebrities. It is the maestro, PJ who will orchestrate the vacuum of the unknowns. We need LO to act as the shock absorber of Artest in his new team and new turf of personalities. Is this an improvement? Absolutely. This has been the dream of long time Laker fans who have been interned with scrubs and inconsistency over the years. We can't let PG's or good forwards to dominate the post, you have to pass Artest first, before you are fouled by Bynum. LOL!
Posted by: Edwin Gueco | July 09, 2009 at 09:29 AM
CognitiveDissonance,
>>>Kareem - Bynum
>>>Rambis - Gasol
>>>Worthy - Artest
>>>Magic - Odom
>>>Scott - Kobe
HUH????? That's so far off it's not even close.
I could see maybe
Kareem - Gasol
but there is no correlation with the other players you mentioned.
>>>Kareem - Bynum
When Kareem was Bynum's age, he had absolutely dominated
college basketball before coming to the NBA. Bynum will never
EVER reach the cumulative accomplishments of Kareem, though
if he works really hard and manages not to break anything,
he might have a peak season that equals one of Kareem's
average seasons.
>>>Rambis - Gasol
Gasol is a clear All-star of the team. Rambis was an energy
role player - rebounds, defense, screens. Rambis - Odom
would be closer to the truth, except that Odom scores a bit
more and Rambis played hard EVERY night.
>>>Worthy - Artest
Worthy was a finesse player, was top 10 in field goal % most
of the time that he was in the league - his career field goal %
was 52% - 39th best in league history. He was perhaps the
best wing man on fast breaks EVER. Artest wins through
brute strength. He overpowers his man on both ends of
the floor. And he's not nearly the shooter that Worthy was.
>>>Magic - Odom
You absolutely must be joking with this one. If Odom had
1/2 the drive and skill that Magic had, then the Lakers would
have beat the Suns in 2006 and 2007. Odom is a talented
player, but he has a tendency to vanish some nights. Odom's
not in the top 100 all time. Magic is top 10
>>>Scott - Kobe
Scott is an underrated player. He was an excellent jump
shooter, with a career shooting % of 48%, which is amazing
for a guard. He was great at filling the wings on Magic's
fast breaks, and he was a good defender as well. I would
say B Scott is on the short list of "best players never to make
an All-Star team". For the 1987-88 season, Byron led the
Lakers in scoring. That's a team with James Worthy, Magic,
Kareem, and Mychal Thompson on it (not to mention Mike
Smrek).
But Byron's a low percentage chance of making the HOF,
unless he coaches a team to a title, which would probably
enhance his body of work enough to get him there.
Kobe is not only guaranteed first ballot hall of fame, he's
arguably already in the top 10 NBA players of all time.
And his game is much much much more diverse than Scott's.
Kobe has every offensive move ever invented in his arsenal,
and he uses them all fluidly. And he's a tenacious all-NBA
defender as well.
To be more concise, though they play different roles, Kobe
is more like Magic, and Lamar is more like Scott.
The Kareem-Gasol analogy doesn't stand up to body of work,
but they play a similar role in the team - excellent post scorer,
but with enough range to hit open jump shots. Thin lanky
frame, but good defensive fundamentals and size allow them
to guard stronger players.
I guess the point I'm getting at is, forget trying to force a
current team into the mold of some team from the past.
It doesn't work. Though Kobe's game is similar to Jordan's,
there will never be another player at the level of Scottie
Pippen.
Each championship is unique, like a freakin' snowflake.
Posted by: LongTimeLakerFan | July 09, 2009 at 09:29 AM
Laker fan,
If you think your in salary-cap hell now ... just wait till you give Kobe his raise. The greatest playa in the history of the NBA is gonna want his. Something along the lines of 5 yrs @ 30mill. You now 24 isnt gonna give you a hometown discount. And to make things worse Pau who is making 17mill now will need a new contract. Its safe to say he is gonna want about the same or walk.
Kobe 30
Pau 15
Bynum 15
Dribble Dribble 7
LOL 7
Luke 6
Thats roughly 80mill and you still need 8 more players! 8 x 3(avg)= 24mill more for a total of 104. Which means your bench is gonna be just that ... a bench. If the estimate is correct that the luxury tax is gonna be at 65mill then ... that makes you 40mill over and dollar for dollar another 40mill. All that for a bunch of old ... what is it you call the Celtics?
I know what your thinking Laker fan ... what about the Celtics? Well after next year we have 30 mill in expiring contracts between House,T. Allen, Scal and Ray Ray. Safe to say if Ray Ray stays at around the MLE since he asked Rasheed to come and sign for that it would make sense he would do the same. So we save 20+ there. Which give us sending money for the big free agent class.
The following year Paula, as Laker fan affectionally calls him, has an expiring contract of 21mill, which if he accepts the around MLE should give us another 15mill of cap space to spend.
Finally the year after that KGs contract of 21mill is due to expire and if he accepts the MLE that an additional 15 mill to spend.
All this at a time when Rondo, Perk and Baby (looks like the most anybody is gonna be able to offer him is around 3-4 mill and I think we match it at that level)are getting into the prime of their careers. I know the Big 3 will be really really old but Im guessing they can come off the bench and gives us 20 solid minutes to go with our core and any free agents Danny picks up along the way with our 50million extra spending money and flexability.
So good luck to your dynesty in salary cap hell and enjoy Dribble Dribble. What can be more enjoyable than an aging Dribble Dribble thinking he can still hit that 3 ball as he dribbles the clock down.
Posted by: 131-92 | July 09, 2009 at 09:31 AM
I think Lakers will go up to $8 mil for LO because LO is better than Marion (better fit for the Lakers at least), and simply the Lakers will be weaker than last year if they gained Artest but lost LO and TA at the same time.
With the Spurs getting Jefferson and McDyess, Cavs Shaq, Celtics Sheed and Orlando VC, the Lakers main competitors have improved whereas the Lakers would have become weaker.
I am sure Team Lamar is just waiting to see if any better offers come up and trying to argue that LO s/d get more than Marion.
If Bynum becomes of one of the two best centers in the league next year, it can make up for losing both LO and TA but LA will just be one injury out of the conference finals as Boston was this year.
Posted by: LakerinBC | July 09, 2009 at 09:36 AM
Red's Love Child -
Don't worry, Artest learned his lesson. Next season, when Garnett starts yapping at someone on the Lakers, Artest will make sure Kevin eats his words.
Posted by: exhelodrvr | July 09, 2009 at 09:42 AM
Two facts that should govern this debate over LO's value:
1. "Value" is determined by the market. Like it or not, LO became a free agent in a time of economic uncertainty, when $10 million contracts just aren't very available. Comparing LO's salary to, say, Luke Walton's is not appropriate. LO is three times the player Luke is; but he isn't "worth" $15 million. You are worth what the market says you are worth, and if the market said LO is worth $10 million, he'd have signed somewhere by now.
2. As valuable as he was this year, it is more than reasonable to assume that LO's value to the Lakers will be significantly lower next year. For one thing, the Lakers will essentially be adding an allstar caliber center to the starting lineup in the form of a healthy Andrew Bynum. Second, the Lakers just radically improved at the small forward spot. Everyone liked Ariza, but he is NOT close to the player that Artest is. For starters, he can't guard big small forwards like Carmelo, which forced Kobe to expend tremendous energy on defense. That isn't going to happen next year. As such, the Lakers' margin for error next year is much greater. They'll be far better offensively and defensively, which makes LO's value off the bench less than it was last year.
LO, you are a $7 to $8 million player. Give the Lakers a hometown discount and come back to win championships for $28 million over the next 4 years.
Posted by: Andrew Bernard | July 09, 2009 at 09:49 AM
Kupchak has now all but admitted that he chose not to bring Ariza back, not the other way around. Ariza is a fine young player but will never be the player Artest is now.
Posted by: bill babishoff | July 09, 2009 at 09:50 AM
No excuse for the Lakers not to bring in LO, now.
We underpaid last year for the money we ended up making. We were 5th and way under NY, Dallas and Cleveland:
As expected, the Lakers paid $7.19 million in luxury taxes from last season, fifth-highest among NBA teams. New York paid $23.7 million, followed by Dallas ($23.6 million), Cleveland ($13.7 million) and Boston ($8.2 million). Portland ($5.9 million) and Phoenix ($4.9 million) also paid luxury taxes
Posted by: Baywood
Yea but were going UP while the salary cap and Luxury tax threshold are going DOWN, not a good place to be as this Depression worsens. Things can get ugly real quick, just ask GM, or Chrysler or AIG or Leman Brothers etc.etc.etc. Buss wants another title but needs to be smart.
Posted by: tomK | July 09, 2009 at 09:50 AM
Edwin,
I'd say that LO is exactly the opposite of "ambidextrous"
Just to illustrate how the economy and landscape of the leauge has altered the free agent market, just look at Allen Iverson - he's still a very good SG. The guy works hard out there, and even just two years ago was still considered a franchise level player...
And he's going to sign for $5 million. A former MVP, a hall of famer, playing for $5 million on a team going no where. This guy put up 51 pts against the Lakers not that long ago.
LO's resume looks nothing like this, and yet he wants twice as much money??
I'll tell you what LO - let's do this, your market value is 5.8 million, Buss will give you 1.2 extra as a token of our appreciation plus I will personally throw in a twix candy bar to top off the deal.
Now get it done.
Posted by: Tim-4-Show | July 09, 2009 at 09:53 AM
It looks like Portland is out of the Odom picture. Word here in UT is Portland is going as hard as they can after Ronnie Millsap.
Posted by: Marty | July 09, 2009 at 09:53 AM
It is true that we are a good team and can repeat if LO returns, I just feel that we have to reinforce the 2nd unit. It is also true and possible that Sasha, Farmar and A-Morr will improve this summer and could bring back the fangs of the bench mob. Undoubtedly, it is just an inconvenient truth that there is uneasiness among Laker fans when these players are on the floor. You would never know what to expect. Luke is a known player, he is defined as a good passer and knows the triangle, any other intangibles he could offer are purely icing in the cake. We need solid back ups: who will not give back scores, who will not be intimidated, who will not disappear in games, who will make good decisions instead of fanciful plays, in other words tough players who could sustain the force created by starters. Well, we will have Shannon, Josh and turtle Mbenga and probably our D' League players Chinemalu and Sun Yue, still not enough. This could be our Achilles heel, everytime they slipped we have to rely on Kobe, Artest & Pau to spell the difference. Oh I forgot the beast Bynum, will he offer a foul prone player good only for few minutes or a frequent injured player, good only for half season? I think that is the mojo of the owners and the Coach this season, they are aware that defending the title would be a harder task. Lakers should not just be satisfied that we won, we won but how can we win again?
Posted by: Edwin Gueco | July 09, 2009 at 09:54 AM