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Madsen vs. Devean: Who dances worse?

I dropped by the Clippers facility this afternoon to film the press conference for newest red, white and blue-er's Mark Madsen, Craig Smith and Sebastian Telfair. Inevitably, the conversation shifted to his infamously bad boogie during the 2001 Championship parade.  I asked the Mad Dog if he's ever surprised that nine years later, his "two left feet" moment remains oddly iconic. Madsen doesn't deny his lack of rhythm, but thinks an old teammate got off pretty easy.

"The thing is, my man Devean George is right next to me. To me, his dance moves are no better than mine."

Unfortunately, Madsen didn't get on the horn and organize said dance off (although in fairness, without the use of web cams and such, logistics would have made this a tough project).  But I liked another writer's suggestion of a poll, so you be the judge. 

Without question, Mad Dog hardly looks like the second coming of Fred Astaire, but check out the fleeting glimpses of George (rocking, if memory serves, his one NBA season with rows).  I noticed at the time that he looked fairly awkward and, in particular, whatever he's doing at the :043 mark of the clip below is... well... unfortunate.

 There's the visual evidence.  Let your voice be heard.  And the next time anyone accuses the K Brothers of being afraid to ask the tough questions, you direct them to this post.

 
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Gotta love how suave Kobe's 'fro is back in the dizzle.

Madsen and George should be on an episode of Dancing With The Stars

UMM.. no, NO. Sorry Mad Dog - we still love you, but don't try to take the focus off your terrible dancing by throwing Devean under the bus.

If you go the 0:53 second mark, Devean's dancing is not THAT atrocious.

I can see another dogs versus cats argument brewing. (After all Mark is "mad dog").

Bring back the water gun next year Kobe.

Kobe looked friendlier back then. Today he look fierce. All because of his hairstyle. Well, the mambas doesn't have hair anyways.

I think I saw on a coffe mug or a t-shirt somewhere that one of the secrets to a happy life was to dance like no one was watching.

They never saw Mark. And people WERE watching...

I love that the Mad Dog's dance "moves" are blog fodder after all these years.

Good lead - K bros. WHEN ARE WE GONNA SIGN ODOM? Its nice to have something different to talk about WHEN ARE WE GONNA SIGN ODOM? Its good to clear my mind and not be thinking about what I have been these last few weeks WHEN ARE WE GONNA SIGN ODOM? Its good to remember the years when Shaq and Kobe worked side by side WHEN ARE WE GONNA SIGN ODOM? I sure hope we can threepeat again like we did then WHEN ARE WE GONNA SIGN ODOM? Anyhow, thanks for changing the subject WHEN ARE WE GONNA SIGN ODOM? and for giving us all a chance to think and talk about something else WHEN ARE WE GONNA SIGN ODOM? WHEN ARE WE GONNA SIGN ODOM? WHEN ARE WE GONNA SIGN ODOM?

any odom updates?

k bros - make something up so we can get our fill on lamar-mania...

you gotta love the lakers...even in the offseason, we can't stop watching...

little does lamar know he is holding southern cali hostage right now...c'mon 7...

y'all are tryin', but i like mine better- con su permiso?

I'm just gonna throw some stuff at the wall and see what sticks.

Take a position a) pedro martinez, 97-99 b)bob gibson, 68-70 c)greg maddux any three consectutive years from 92-2000 (only one world series, but man that guy was consistent)

Michael bay – a)can’t argue with results, guy is obviously a successful blockbuster director in the tradition of lucas and spielburg, who needs academy awards? B) my four year old nephew could do better if he had a big Hollywood SFX team and a $80M + budget.

Did Bob Marley shoot the deputy, and if not, who did?
Discuss.
Posted by: phred | July 23, 2009 at 05:12 PM

The DH wasn't added until 1973 (and that was just in the AL). Still Gibson did play a year with the Harlem Globetrotters so he has to be the man.
Posted by: giantsquid | July 23, 2009 at 06:38 PM

Giantsquid-
My sources have the DH being added in ’69. Of course, that was in the AL, so my argument might have been a bit of a red herring, given that Gibson pitched in the NL. Hmm.


You can't compare, because they were in completely different eras. Gibson probably had less separation from the competition than Martinez did, though. (McClain, Marichal, Koufax during his earlier years, Seaver, Drysdale, Palmer)
Posted by: exhelodrvr | July 23, 2009 at 06:41 PM


Ex- Of course we can TRY. If they pitched in the same ERA (pun intended) we wouldn’t have much hope of being able to argue about them, would we? But for what it’s worth, you are completely right, well, not completely. Pedro had to compete with maddux, Randy Johnson, Clemons( on roids), and of course a lot of batters also on roids. Thoughts?

I might be completely off here, and making my own point in some kind of meta-byzantine excercise in irony, but I can't help but notice that every single reply I get is by somebody who is absolutely sure of their viewpoint. No, 'hey, good question. I think this, and this is why. nope, just 'the answer is B!'

I don't know.

Oh, and if I really deep down try to answer it, i'm afraid there might be a racial element in why people mock madsen's dancing and ignore Devean's. Of course, it's possible, like criticizing LakerTom and ignoring Staples24, it's because we like Madsen. who knows.

Could we trade Sasha for Madsen? He's a bit cheaper, knows the triangle, and I wouldn't mind seeing the Mad Dog hustle for boards like a bat out of hell every couple of games.

who is that fat dude quoting Base Rob and introducing the second video?

you know, I would have to say devean is pretty bad. madsen is trying harder, though. I give major props to Kobe with the supersoaker. Honestly, it reminded me of how young he was. Heck, it reminded me of how young I was. I thought we might just keep winning titles forever. Well, we got back, and WE WON! this one.

IT IS ALL ABOUT THE LOVE

IF YOU HAVE THE LOVE, LIKE YOU HAVE NEVER BEEN HURT, AND YOU CAN DANCE LIKE THERE IS NOT ANYBODY WATCHING.

OR HECK, THERE COULD BE HALF A MILLION PEOPLE WATCHING, BUT WE WON! SO WHO CARES!

THAT'S RIGHT, WE WON! AGAIN!

GO LAKERS!

Okay the dance moves are horrible, but I'm more worried about the wardrobe. What was that? 2001? Madsen looks like 1981 to me. It's the high waisted jeans (they make me laugh) LOL

I never thought I would get Rick-Rolled on a Lakers blog.

REPOST:

Lets talk PG for next season. We have 3.

Fish- Fish is clutch and he knows what he's doing. He s getting old though. He was kinda sucking up to the game 4 shots. I think next year could be a struggle for Derek with limited contributions on the floor and leadership in the locker room.

Farmar- Farmar also struggled last year as well. He started slow, got hurt, then finished slow, although he kinda picked it up towards the end of the playoffs. If Farmar can hit some shots and play a little D then he will be good to go. I would really like to see Farmar be more of a distributor than a shooter. He definitely has way above average passing skills and think he could contribute even when his shot isn't falling.

Brown- Brown was the surprise acquisition. He hit big shots, played solid D, and provided a whole lot of energy off of the bench. He seems like he has a lot of upside and could be valuable to the Lakers this year, not just playing limited minutes.

My question, where are the minutes going to come from? Is Fish going to come off the bench at some point this year? Is Brown going to back up Kobe maybe, pushing Sasha to the end of the bench if he struggles again. Who would start between Farmar and Brown if Fish does come off the bench? I think the majority of the question marks around the Lakers this year are the PG spot and whether Bynum can play a full year at a high level.

I think training camp will ultimately provide the foundation to which player sees more PT at the beginning of year and I think that this year will be an extended tryout between Farmar and Brown to be the Lakers PG of the future.

Lamar = Laker for Life

GO LAKERS

Whats wrong with Marks dancing? It takes me 5 shots of tequila to get me that limber (HaHa). Do you really think he cares what people think of his dancing? He was enjoying the celebration exactly how it should be done. Mad props to MadDog. Man, if i only had his moves!

But honestly, I was more impressed with his spanish speaking ability.

I'm gonna look at the video again when i'm sober.

Sign Lamar!

MadDog se habla espaniol and my man Chick.

http://tinyurl.com/698823

R.I.P Chick

Whoa, madsen got mom jeans on

Watching this makes me miss Shaq and the good ole days. He was such a character and made it fun. Can you diiig iiit!!!

Wow. Watching those videos, I had a few thoughts...

1. Good to have Mark Madsen back in Los Angeles.

2. Watching Shaq work the crowd. I remember that moment. It was such a shame that a team that should have won five or six consecutive Championships just had to implode based upon stupid egos.

3. I almost feel a little bad for Shaq, but he blew it. He did. His jealousy got the best of him. Shaq's not getting another ring (unless he jumps on the Lakers boat, which Dr. Buss won't let happen). Kobe's retiring with 1-5 more rings (depending upon Andrew Bynum's development).

What do we play for? RINGS!!!!

Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.

GO LAKERS!!!

Another thing...

Mark Madsen's dance moves are AWFUL.

But there isn't a single person out there who can actually dance.

Seriously. It's kind of embarassing, but the spirit of the moment was so good it doesn't matter.

Kobe and Shaq are the two with the best sense of rhythm.

What do we play for? RINGS!!!!

Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.

GO LAKERS!!!

Kobe calls Buss about Lamar Odom. Check link to story at

www.lakersjournal.com

whoops. darn, really gave myself away there. hope i have it fixed now.

so, what was the deal with fredo anyway? Dropped on his head as a child or just really laid back?

discuss

mrbarneydangles,

I think between Sasha Vujacic, Shannon Brown, Jordan Farmar, Derek Fisher, and Sun Yue (or whoever takes his place--Coby Karl, God willing), what's going to happen is that we're going to see a trade next season, during the season...

And it won't involve Derek Fisher.

Essentially, a few players are going to rise to the top. And the other one will be traded.

What do we play for? RINGS!!!!

Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.

GO LAKERS!!!!

P.S. Lamar Odom = Laker for Life

ChicNstu,

Mark Madsen is a dork and that's one of the things we love about him.

He has and always will play hard.

Go Clippers!

GO LAKERS!!!!!

all this nostalgia about Snak, TA and LO. feels like long winter nights.

Rick Friedman.
where is that vodka. and yes, finally i'm ready to inhale?! the problem is, how long do i have to hold it?!

Hey Jay Jay

I'm with you man.
Let's get ODOM.
Let's not decrease the offer. Let's give Odom at least the same offer.
Let's have a happy team which equals a winning team.
Let's respect Odom and treat him well. Jeff Schwartz has been in his ear too much. Let's understand that and start over with Odom.

Let's discuss pure hoops topics.
The Clips added some depth for a change???
Who cares about the dancing? Comedy

Ouchhhhhhhhhh,

>>> all this nostalgia about Snak, TA and LO. feels like long winter nights. Rick Friedman. Where is that vodka. and yes, finally i'm ready to inhale?! the problem is, how long do i have to hold it?!

Well, you and Psyched have both called me out for when my cloudy crystal ball predicted a quiet, boring summer. When many of us gathered at the Coliseum to celebrate back in June, who would have predicted any of this?

Fan favorite Trevor Ariza --- GONE. Lamar Odom, no longer a certain Laker-for-Life. Ron Artest wearing Purple & Gold. Mark Madsen dancing his way back to LA -- as a Clipper.

The Lamar Odom drama is certainly responsible for more than a few empty bottles of vodka. Much of California's largest cash crop has been inhaled by many anxiety stressed Lakers faithful. Hundreds and hundreds of posts in 24 hour cycles on this blog when the K-Bros thought they could focus on the Dodgers.

Yes, I've abandoned any hope that my Lakerholics 12-step program will provide any cure this summer. On reflection, given recent history, it was silly of me to believe for a single second that this would be a quiet summer. We're not just any fans. We're Lakers fans. We'll always display bruises and needle marks because there is no escape from our addiction.

The only thing missing in recent weeks has been the live chat. The K-Bros have promised one soon. Then it will be Christmas in July (or August). In the words of one of AFI's best songs, we are "forever walking through December." Grab the bong and the shot glass. Go Lakers!

Madsen, Madsen, Madsen.

And yes, I am concerned that this reflects my racial conditioning.

I admit that, because of how I was raised, I tend to believe that white guys named Madsen who are very, very bad dancers but still dance in public with a lot of enthusiasm are funnier than black guys named George who also can't dance, but go mimimalist to hide it.

Madsen's real issue is, like Elaine on Seinfeld, he can't dance at all but he thinks he's grooving.

guys, do you think andrew bynum will make the all-star team this year? there is no Yao and no SHAQ..

Jon K-

So you think that either Brown, Farmar, or Sasha will be gone? I totally agree with you about keeping Fish. He will turn in to a coach either next year or the year after.

Personally, I hope we get rid of Sasha, It would be really nice to move his contract. Also, Ron can hit the 3 nicely, and it wouldn't hurt to have Luke pitch in with some 3s. I think Browns got tons of upside and Farmar can be a legit PG/backup PG if he learns to use his abilities in the triangle.

Man, this Lamar stuff is tough. I know you like Lamar too. Both sides gotta get it together and get a deal done.

Lamar = Laker for Life

GO LAKERS

If Shannon Brown had a Gatorade commercial...

http://tinyurl.com/mskt4u

If the economics get any worse......for Dr. Buss that is.

How Dr Buss can blow up the team, save lots of money, and still compete for a Title.

- By Fatty, but inspred by JonnyV

Plan A: Don't re-esign Lamar, then trade Bynum to Toronto for Bosh.

Plan B: Don't re-sign Lamar, then trade Bynum to Phx for Amare

Both plans work for the present quite nicely, but you are sacrificing the Lakers competitive future in 4-5 years.

Lakers starting line up:

Gasol
Bosh or Amare
Artest
Kobe
Fisher

Looks good to me. Check that. Looks great to me.

** Odd players may need to be added to equal salaries

"guys, do you think andrew bynum will make the all-star team this year? there is no Yao and no SHAQ.."

Posted by: BRett

Crossing my fingers.

Serious racial profiling. Doesn't look the part. He got his Opey on and even though he's bouncin' on 2 and 4, he resides in a 1 and 3 body. Too happy for that room. And he a Stanford grad, you'd think he'd know better.

Fatty,

Bosh over Amare. Though I would roll with just signing Lamar.

You know all of these reminiscent videos get me to reminisce and another one linked to previously in the year where young afro Kobe was talking about how having Shaq was exactly like having an older brother, and it got me oddly sentimental and I started to think about how great things were back then as crazy as they were and how the Kobe and Shaq rumble was exactly like a younger brother older brother rivalry especially when the younger brother eclipses the older brother.

What am I getting at here?

Well, since Shaq has been showing some more maturity, actually acted gracious when we won the championship, and that Jabberwocky dance has got to be worth some redemption, and to compensate for the net gain LA has obtained in bad dancing, I would not be totally adverse to the idea of bringing back Shaq to ride the pine in LA to finish out his career when he gets done suffering through his purgatory known as Cleveland (no offense Cleveland). Let's face it, after he retires, Shaq will always be a Laker, might as well make it official and close the circle.

Fatty

i did not watch bosch too much. except in the olympics and the all star game. i'm not sure if he's very good but his game is predictable, and boring. i found him in the all star game to be the most boring guy on both teams. nothing spectacular, no great passes, no dunks , only jumps. and he even missed. he is not for "showtime". maybe i need to see more. amare can be spectacular, but remember, he is the "black jesus", so the game starts and ends with him. and no defense.

even if i'm not a LO fan, i will still want him over the above 2 players. except duncan or dirk, no great one in the league. alridge-too young. maybe there r some others but i'm not watching too much beyond lakers to be NBA educated. except playoffs. it's hard, personally, to watch 2 mediocre teams if i'm not a fan.

how about bynum for a brilliant point guard with good shooting range and quick?!

I NEED A FIXXXXXX OF BYNUM POSTS FROM LAKERTOM

I AM GOING THROUGH WITHDRAWLS OF NO BYNUM POST FROM LAKERTOM

IT IS SO WONDERFUL TO HEAR HOW GREAT BYNUM IS FROM LAKERTOM

JUST CAN’T GET ENOUGH OF BYNUM’S POSTS OF HIS GREATNESS

I WANT TO HEAR HOW BYNUM THE beast IS GOING TO DOMINATE

NO ONE DOES BETTER THAN LAKERTOM

Okay, clearly Madsen's dancing is atrocious, a "full body heave set to music." He's blatantly awful, BUT...

What makes him great is that he's having so much doggone fun. He gets points for that, and as a result, it doesn't matter how bad he looks.

I love Mark Madsen! He's a genuinely great guy, and I'd take him in the post over Kwame or Elden any day of the week, because I'd know he'd leave everything he had out there. Remember when we faced him in 2003 against the Timberwolves, and he defended Shaq at an almost 90-degree angle? Honestly, the guy was practically parallel to the floor, the way he was leaning on Shaq. Those are just good memories.

Mark Madsen is my type of role player. He is not athletic yet he compensates it by working hard on other areas like rebound, defense and foul shooting or assist. He doesn't boast as an high IQ player or acting as spokesman of the team and yet he was accepted and finished at Stanford (a lot of high IQ students would never be accepted at Stanford, you have to fall on the right grid). I remember when he started as a Laker, he has an old beat up car and Shaq bought him a decent pick up by surprise. He was very grateful and happyfor the gesture, I'm sure he paid him back. He is not a good dancer nevertheless he tried his best to entertain a happy crowd at his own expense. He was traded to the T'wolves, didn't diss the Lakers, he was traded again to LA Clippers, in return he was grateful to the owner of T'wolves for the opportunities given to him.

How many NBA players are like Mark Madsen?

How many NBA players are like Mark Madsen?

Posted by: Edwin Gueco

JP, DJ and shanWOW UPS?!

i will not call Madsen a role player. maybe a LIMITED player. partially, maybe that's why he is grateful for ANY opportunity? i'm not questioning his character. i'm sure he is aware of his limits and tries to do his best.

I'm sorry MadDog - I got nothin but love for you - but dear Lord in heaven you are the worst dancer on earth. Devean George could have done "The Sprinkler" "The Bus Driver" and "The Mashed Potato" and he still would have been cooler than you.

Oh, and you didn't help youself by accentuating your awkwardness with the tucked-in white T-shirt and your 1980s style jeans.

But thank you for providing us with one of the most memorable and entertaining moments in Laker parade history. We will always love you for that.

Fatty,

>>> Lakers starting line up:

>>> Gasol
>>> Bosh or Amare
>>> Artest
>>> Kobe
>>> Fisher
>>> Looks good to me. Check that. Looks great to me.

Looks great to you? Yeah, if you were the Toronto Raptors or Phoenix Suns.

Our of respect for both you and Johnny, I almost refrained from commenting on your idiotic idea for Jerry Buss to save money and still compete for a title by letting Lamar walk and trading Bynum for Bosch or Stoudemire. If you want to save money and compete, you let Lamar walk and unleash Andrew Bynum. The last thing you do is trade a potential franchise player like Drew for a stiff like Bosch or cancer like Stoudemire.

Have you been drinking again, Fatty? Seriously, you’re telling me that you really think that Chris Bosch or Amare Stoudemire are better than Andrew Bynum? Neither of those guys is even better than Lamar Odom. Bosch was the biggest bust on Team USA and Stoudemire is the poster child for selfish players who don’t play defense. With the trade of Shaq and injury to Yao, Andrew Bynum will be the top center in the West next year.

Just put the cap back on the bottle, Fatty, and put it back in the cupboard. Then take a long hot and cold shower, maybe a couple of tokes of prescription ganja, and get a grip before you totally lose it. You didn’t post this on the Bleacher Report, too, did you? :)

Tom

Madsen was just lucky to be big and crazy (ball hussle)....otherwise he has no b-ball skills whatsoever....even M'benga has so much more potential than Mark ever had.

I agree that it would be great to see Shaq finish as a Laker, playing for minimum, by his choice, to show his commitment. Whatever the hoopla is between him and Kobe, and him and Buss, I wish they could get over it, and bring him in to finish his Jedi training. Kareem taught him to be skilled. Shaq needs to teach him how to be "nasty".

Unless Sasha shows great recovery, I say dump him at trade deadline, they gave him what 4 years and a contract and he gave us about 3/4 of a year?.... Whereas my favorite, Sun Yue, got 20 minutes his first year, then put down for not playing Summer league. Yeah he played pretty bad the times he was put in, but it was garbage time and even though he's not the strongest or the quickest, he's frickin 6'9", could probably play 3 positions eventually, and he's shooting as good as the machine...Give him 2 or 3 more years and give him a mentor (Mr. Magic Johnson)...but I'm sure they have decided to cut ties and go after some washed up veteran and pay the same minimum. Don't bother bashing my opinion, I've heard them all. Yeah, Aaron McKie really played well for us (as a trade chip)...Mitch Richmond....another washed up player they tried .....

With Odom back, the Lakers could win 4 of the next 5 championships, if Phil is well, or they transition his replacement in effectively, whoever it may be. Without Odom, we will be as big a question mark as Odom's game was night to night, how ironic....

Assuming Bynum stays healthy, he may not have the "stats" to be an All-Star, especially points.

BRett,

I think exhelodrvr is right.

The stats may not be there for Andrew Bynum to make the All-Stars, but the Lakers COULD be so dominant that four of their five starters get voted into the All-Star game simply on their powerhouse status alone.

What do we play for? RINGS!!!!

Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.

GO LAKERS!!!!

Ouchhhh,

Well DJ and UPS may have another type of character but not within the realm of MM. I doubt if they can accepted at Stanford University. They could be an improvement of MM as a player, still my boy is class of its own. I put it this way, if you belonged to the cream of the crop, it's difficult to be humble, yet Mark is a humble player. What do I mean by cream of crop or cream de la creme? How many NBA players who "finished" not just one year but 4 years at Stanford are playing in NBA? How NBA players who went to Stanford U have lasted 8 seasons in NBA?

FINALLY, I got someone to talk about the POSSIBILITY of trading Bynum.

First, I do not want to trade Bynum. Second, I do not want to lose Lamar. But people PLEEEEZ, this economy is NASTY. It will claim it's victims among those who are not REAL WISE in the way they run things.

That said, it appears to me that IF it becomes impracticle having both Lamar and Bynum, then why couldn't we talk about a team without Bynum? We have certainly exhausted ourselves with talk about no Lamar.

Therefore I offer this:
The Lakers have proven they can win a title with Gasol at center. I am well aware that Bynum played a role and I am NOT diminishing Bynum at all! I am simply saying that a team without Bynum gives us ALOT to work with.

Paying Lamar what HE FEELS is fair, together with a good point guard to run things. NOT a CP3, more someone that can facilitate what we do. Maybe a Tall, fast guard with great passing skills that can organize things, bring the ball up and hit the 3 and play some defense. How much would a guy that that cost? I am thinking of someone like Chauncy, though Chauncy is a $12 Mil a year guy.

Well, with no Bynum, we could use his dollars to pay a point guard. THEN, we have a little money to spend on the bench.

Keep in mind Bynum is scheduled to make $12.5 mil this year and $13.8 mil next year. Sign Lamar to a 4 year $36 mil contract and you have him at $9 mil a year. That leaves $3.5 mil this year and $4.8 mil next year.

In order to move Bynum we would have to trade him and take back similar money. Therefore maybe we trade both Bynum and Sasha for a great Point guard prospect and some better bench help to back up the 4 and 5 spot. Moving Sasha frees up another $5 Mil. We could also trade Morrison instead of Sasha.

Lets summarize:
Move Bynum and his $12.5 Mil with Sasha and his $5 mil (and or Morrison) We ask in return for a good point guard and depth at the 4 and 5.

I just have no idea how to get Lamar back here with these options. Therefore, I submit Boozer instead because he can be had in a sign and trade.

I remember proposing trading Lamar for Boozer after our loss to the Celts in 07/08. I had a raging argument with this guy who felt that in NO WAY is Lamar anywhere NEAR as good as Lamar. And additionally, why would Utah EVER trade Boozer and want back Lamar?

Well, I wish I could talk with that guy now because most people value Lamar over Boozer. Boozer isn't as big as Lamar, he isn't as sturdy (Injury prone) and Boozer doesn't seem to be a big fan of defense.

HOWEVER, this could work. Bynum (and our package) for Boozer and a Point Guard.

mrbarneydangles,

How are you doing, dangles. This Lamar watch has to be hard on you. I’m sure it hasn’t dimmed your love for LO but I’ve been surprised not to see you posting more. I thought for a while there that the Lakers were really going to let Lamar walk. Now, it looks as if the pendulum has swung back and they are talking again. As everyone knows, I think we will be fine either way but in my heart I am hoping to see news that Lamar is staying.

While I am concerned about who will take over at point guard after Derek retires, I think we will be fine with a point guard by committee approach next year. Derek should and will continue to start but probably play fewer minutes. I think our team defense next year will be dramatically improved to the extent that our defensive liabilities at point guard will not be obvious. I also think we may be premature dismissing Fish’s value as a starter. What other point guard in the league today would you rather see taking a big shot?

I see Jordan and Shannon seeing solid minutes backing up Fish depending on whom the opposing point guard is. Jordan will play against the smaller, quicker point guards like Tony Parker and Shannon against the bigger more physical point guards like Deron Williams. The one weapon we are still missing in our point guard defensive repertoire is a Darren Collison type player who can run step for step defending fast quick guards.

As the season progresses, however, I think we will see Jordan Farmar really take his game to another level. He will come into camp buffed and much more aggressive on defense, more confident in his shooting, and excelling at ball handling and playmaking. The Lakers defense will be so much stronger next year that we will see many more opportunities to run off turnovers, steals, and blocks that I think the Lakers needs and Jordan’s more mature skills will be a better fit than Shannon Brown as point guard.

While Shannon lacks the ball handling and playmaking skills that Farmar has, I love his defense and hustle. I don’t think there is any chance in hell that he shoots as well from beyond the arc as he did last year but the same is probably true of Trevor Ariza. At any rate, Brown gives us a great defensive weapon to deploy against Deron Williams and other big physical point guards. I just do not see Shannon really being a point guard. His skill set is much more that of a shooting guard – or more accurately, scoring guard.

Tom

Marty,

"I love Mark Madsen! He's a genuinely great guy, and I'd take him in the post over Kwame or Elden any day of the week, because I'd know he'd leave everything he had out there."

I concur. He doesn't have a great skill set, but because he plays as hard as he does, he's pretty decent on defense.

What do we play for? RINGS!!!!

Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.

GO LAKERS!!!!

"Seriously, you’re telling me that you really think that Chris Bosch or Amare Stoudemire are better than Andrew Bynum?"

You're joking, right LakerTom?

Right?

Edwin Guerco,

"How many NBA players are like Mark Madsen?"

Not enough.

What do we play for? RINGS!!!!

Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.

GO LAKERS!!!!

Laker Tom,
You're my favorite guy here and the Bynum thing is simply a conversation that I would like to have. If it plays out that we keep Bynum, I am good to go with that.

If I am proven wrong (and yes, you will probably say so), I am fine with that too. As I mentioned, it is a thought that has been running through my head and I would like to see if it holds water is all.

Nothing personal LT.

Rick,

>>> The Lamar Odom drama is certainly responsible for more than a few empty
>>> bottles of vodka. Much of California's largest cash crop has been inhaled by
>>> many anxiety stressed Lakers faithful.

LOL! I wondered where those extra bottles and baggies went?

>>> Hundreds and hundreds of posts in 24 hour cycles on this blog when the
>>> K-Bros thought they could focus on the Dodgers.

Didn’t the Kambros give up the Dodger gig to focus solely on the Lakers?

>>> Yes, I've abandoned any hope that my Lakerholics 12-step program will provide
>>> any cure this summer. On reflection, given recent history, it was silly of me to
>>> believe for a single second that this would be a quiet summer. We're not just any
>>> fans. We're Lakers fans. We'll always display bruises and needle marks because
>>> there is no escape from our addiction.

You just need the “championship patch” to eliminate any feelings of anxiety or stress. Next time you feel anxious about Lamar or who will take over from Phil or where we’ll get our next point guard, just remember who won the NBA championship this year. The good vibes and endorphins will make you smile will melt away your worries and anxiety

The difference between a happy junkie and hopeless junkie is merely having junk.

Tom

Ohhhhhh! Oh! Oh! Oh! please stop with the horrific trade ideas! Ohhhhh!

"trade Bynum to Phx for Amare"???

Yeah, that's what we need, another guy who wants to put up 20 points/game and play NO DEFENSE and then spends the rest of his time complaining about how nobody on the team "respects" him or gives him his due.

Edwin

please, forget the creme de la creme @ stanford

he can have a BS from Stanford, Masters from Cambridge and a PhD from Yale. that maybe will give him a great job post-NBA.

no GM in the NBA will give him a better contract or even one for his LIMITED skills and hard work. dirty blue collar hard work on hardwood floor.

he is just a High School talent, more like creme brule with a torch from Ace Hardware.

actually compared to PJ or DJ, maybe the Stanford status gave him a FREE pass to the NBA in the eyes of a stiff like Kupcake. compared to him Luuke was recruited by a much better BB program at Arizona. high IQ, stiff and limited skills.

by the way, even if at a small school, i respect iRon's degree in mathematics more than other degrees in economics, marketing, sociology or any other programs were sport scholarships r placing players in universities. physical education? stanford? a big stiff on a stiff team. so r the Lopez brothers. they even accommodated the twins. stanford has many social/political issues to deal with. from the wrong side of the fence. let's don get in "forbidden" topics territory of the blog.

does he play piano?!

Madsen prolly the only guy in the NBA who actually boxes out for a rebound. While everyone else is trying to out jump each other. Ya, I miss the early 2000's.

Pig,

>>> "Seriously, you’re telling me that you really think that Chris Bosch
>>> or Amare Stoudemire are better than Andrew Bynum?" – LakerTom

>>> You're joking, right LakerTom?

The only general manager in the NBA who might NOT prefer to have Andrew Bynum over Amare Stoudemire or Chris Bosch is probably Brian Colangelo, who still doesn’t want to admit that he should have drafted Dwayne Wade instead of Chris Bosch.

You’re the joker, pig.

Tom

JohnnyV, quick question: do you think the Andrew Bynum of the next 5 years is more likely to resemble the Bynum pre-injury (the one that was dominating and averaging over 25 & 15 in the 11 games prior to injury) or the Bynum from the playoffs (who, frankly, sucked)?

Laker Tom,

:)

*******NEWS FLASH! NEWS FLASH!*******

Portland just signed Andre Miller. No confirmed details yet but it appears to be 2 or 3 years in the 7 million range. Which means now NO ONE has money left to pay Lamar over the mid-level.

So why don't we offer him 5 years at what Miami is offering plus a couple million (overall not per year), say 7.5 mil per year for 5 years. That should do it. Less luxury tax the next few years as well, and Lamar gets his security.

GET ER DONE!!!


LakerTom,
"Seriously, you’re telling me that you really think that Chris Bosch or Amare Stoudemire are better than Andrew Bynum? Neither of those guys is even better than Lamar Odom"

As of right now, both Bosh and Stoudemire are better than both Bynum and Odom. They may not be good acquisitions for the Lakers. And if Bynum stays major-injury free, that may not be the case a year from now. But it seems pretty obvious that it's the case right now.

Sasha didn't sign last year until July 25th...

LOS ANGELES, July 25, 2008 (AP) -- Lakers restricted free agent guard Sasha Vujacic has agreed to a three-year, $15 million contract after emerging last season as a key member of the Western Conference champions

You would be a fool to trade Bynum. The POTENTIAL far out weighs the injuries. The KID has everything to be great. YES the injury bug is a major concern but we all witnessed the last 2 years when he became a BEAST before the injuries. You have to roll the dice with him because 2 things are most likely going to happen.

1. HE becomes the BEAST he can be
2. HE will be injury prone the rest of his career

All I know is if I am Buss I am giving this KID every opportunity to become great.

Smart Kid
Dedicated
Skilled-hands-footwork-brains

If Bynum can just stay away from the injury bug it is pretty clear he will be special. I know you might think this is crap so my advise is read what Pete Newell who ran the Big Man Cap had to say about Bynum before he passed away. I think he might know something about B-Ball and the players of today.

BD

Well, we should be in the home stretch of LOCO.

The Blazers offered Andre Miller 3 years at 7 million per. If he
takes it, they won't have enough cap space left to make an offer
of the size that Lamar is hoping for, so it will come down to taking
the Lakers' offer, or going to Miami for less money per year.

Andre Miller is going to sgn with Portland @ 3 for 21 mil per ESPN.

I hopeing this will, without a doubt, take Portland out of the LO race.

I worried about David Lee as well. Would new york sign and trade lee to us for LO. I would not like the ideas since Lo fits so well in our system.

Please, Lakers and Lo come to a deal and meeting fo the minds so this weekend can be relaxing. I'm tired of alwasys checking this site for news and seeing the same pictrue Thouh the kittie was cute and so was the discussion. I love both but cats have been gettign the short end of the stick. have you seen the stories of cats in Hospices who can tell when people are ready to pass? Also tell me one dog on the planet who could match up with a tiger or lion?

Laker 4 life

L.O. better have been focusing on his free throws and perimeter shot this whole time.

"Seriously, you’re telling me that you really think that Chris Bosch or Amare Stoudemire are better than Andrew Bynum?"

You're joking, right LakerTom?

Right?

Pig you should know by now that Laker Tom is firmly set in his belief Bynum is the best Laker center since Shaq left. In fact the other members of the Bynum fan club already gave him his ceiling which is Shaq without even Shaq type results and refuse to give him anything negative and instead blame it on PT/Jackson/Kobe (for that injury) and every excuse from the box. Was Bynum putting up good production for a few games yes but how consistently was that? Shaq at his age dominated the center position and was scoring 30ppg at the age of 21 with power and agility unseen since Wilt's time and he did it for a full 81 game season and this was against some of the best centers in Ewing/Olajuwon/Robinson/Mourning. Plus he did it as the first option with not as much help (Penny was a rookie when Shaq was 21) while Bynum is helped tremendously by the presence of Pau and Kobe and having a Hall of Famer coach. Take away Kobe/Pau/Phil/Artest/Odom and put Shannon or Jordan at point, Sasha or Shannon at SG, Ariza at SF, Powell at PF and Bynum at center and will the Lakers be a good team? Highly unlkely.

I'm with you Pig that LT is joking though I'm very sure he's not. Bosh led his Raptors twice in the playoffs and Amare Stoudemire has put up better statistical production even before Nash came to Phoenix.

So, I've read that the resumed Lamar/Dr. Buss negotiations have been "productive."

For the love of God, can someone please explain what "productive" means within the greater context of these negotiations?

What do we play for? RINGS!!!!

Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.

GO LAKERS!!!!

Portland signed Andre Miller now. LO's options are now only us and Miami and that was true even before since Portland had few interest in LO.

A good sign now and while the Heat are still in the race even though by twitter they thought that they won't nab LO, the Lakers are still the leading team in snatching LO back.

"Seriously, you’re telling me that you really think that Chris Bosch or Amare Stoudemire are better than Andrew Bynum?"

You're joking, right LakerTom?

Right?

Posted by: Pig | July 24, 2009 at 11:58 AM

I don't understand the bewilderment of certain Laker fans regarding Andrew Bynum. LakerTom is right on the money regarding AB. Did you not see the type of player he was (and is going to be) the last two seasons before each (freak) injury? He's got the softest hands, natural shot-blocking ability, a post-up game, a power game, a perimeter game, shoots freethrows well, and is intelligent.

I guess I understand the hesitence of some fans with AB's seemingly inability to stay on the floor, but assuming he is not injury prone Andrew Bynum is a keeper!!!

Go Lakers!!!

LAMAR, CAN I GET ON WITH MY SUMMER?

SIGN ON THE LINE THAT IS DOTTED ALREADY!!!!

THis has been a painful month. Everyday, 5 times a day, I jump on the blog hoping to read that LO is in the fold. I haven't been posting, done talking about scenarios or what might be, should be, could be. I don't care whose at fault, (LO) I don't wanna teach LO a lesson, (make him sign a deal worth less than the original offer) I just want him to sign and be done with this. It's a no brainer. So Jerry, put the original deal back on the table and let's END THIS ALREADY!!!!!!

LakerTom

There are three things certain in life.

Death, taxes, and.......

If you say anything even slightly bad or express ill toward Andrew Bynum, LakerTom will attack you mercilessly. haha

My point was, what if Dr. Buss was forced to make drastic cuts financially?

Could we still compete at a high level?

Since we made it to the Finals twice with Gasol at center, you would have to assume we could live without AB for the present, no?

Then, if we had to cut salary. LO would be the easiest way to reduce it..

The next choice would be, which portion of the twin towers would you trade to bolster the now weakened power forward position?

Houston Rockets had the same dilema years ago and chose Hakeem over Sampson to strengthen and balance the team.

If we want to win with Kobe now, I would take Gasol over Bynum.

Toronto will trade Bosch because he's committed to leaving them next year.

But, if we play our cards right, we could get a decent pt guard in a deal as well.

LakerTom, I said all of this without one insult. (except maybe for the idea) It is possible on this site to have decent discussions, no?
And isn't this what summers are for? Considering ridiculus trade ideas.

Fatty - The Rubics Cube GM of the blogs. "Just keep flipping ideas until you get it right"

LakerTom - Re; Bleacher Report
I really have fun dropping pieces over there. Your takes can get picked up and posted all over the place. SI, USA Today, Fox News, CBS Sportsline, several team sites, and yes, even the LA Times picked up one of my pieces two weeks ago. If you haven't tried it yet, give it a go, its a fun experience

Whenever I think about Madsen I think about some white boy dancing. Also think about Wild Cherry's oldies hit "Play That Funky Music White Boy."

So when is Odom going to concede he aint gettin mo money elsewhere and is better off staying in L.A.? I wish Kobe would step up and be a learder and make up the difference between LO and JB's stance.

Show you right brutha. Have a good weekend!

Looks like Lamar's Portland pipe (hee-hee) dream is over.

http://tinyurl.com/lamaraintgointoportland

Clearly a case of racial profiling against Mark Madsen!! Devean George was just as bad!!! LOL!!!

Uh, Lamar.....do the right thing and sign on the dotted line. The Lakers need you and you need the Lakers.

mrbarney, Jon & Tom - my own gut feeling on the PG situation - Derek will start every game unless injured, Shannon will be the backup and Farmar will get traded. I don't say this with any negative feelings for Farmar. It's just that I can easily see some sort of trade package aimed at modestly reducing future payroll and Jordan seems a likely component.

Laker Tom, YelloFever,

Nobody is hating on anyone. I am in full agreement that Bynum will turn into the beast next season IF he can fully recover from surgery and stay healthy. The entire blog was attacking Alfonso and ignoring his legitimate questions. I was simply curious what the answers to his questions were.

If the argument is that the Lakers will be better off financially without Lamar, than fine, but the argument that any team is better on the court WITHOUT a particular player should only be reserved for guys like Smush, Kwame, Cook and Luke. You can argue that the Lakers will still be a great team without Lamar, but to suggest that the team will be better in any way without a key contributor to our championship does not make much sense to me.

Johnny V

Your post is interesting. I don't know about you trying to save money in trading Bynum for an aging Point guard that gets paid the same. We already have Fisher, Bryant, Brown, Farmar, and Vujacic.

Trading Bynum straight up for Billups and signing Lamar for 9 million a year does not save us any money and renders us too deep at both guard positions.

Besides, why would Denver do that when Billups is revered and appreciated?

LAKERS

Starters: Kobe, Fisher, Bynum, Artest, Gasol.
Bench: Farmar, Brown, Powell

CLIPPERS:

Starters: B. Davis, Iverson, Kaman, Camby, Griffin
Bench: Gordon, Thornton, D. Jordan


Great depth and great bench for the Clips.

well, it looks like that post is actually a couple of days old (July 21st) so it's not "Just in", but I stand by the fact that BSO is often correct with these breaking rumors. Lets hope we hear more soon!

*fingers crossed*

JohnnyV,

WRT trading Bynum for a PG, there are several problems.

Problem #1 - Injury Prone?

Andrew has missed half a season each of the last two years.
Not every team is willing to risk 12+ million a year on a guy
who might be considered injury prone (whether that's the case
or not).

Problem #2 - Front Court depth.

Sure, Pau could start at center. But if your backup center
is Powell (short in size) or MBenga (short on talent), then even
if Pau helps the team get a big lead in his big minutes, the
weak backup will mean the other team catches up (and passes)
the Lakers when the bench mob is in. If you want to win
championships, you need at least 3 quality bigs. Lakers have
3 in Odom, Bynum, and Gasol. Lose one of those and it makes
the job a lot harder.

Problem #3 - What PG?

So you went to the trouble of saying they should trade Bynum
for a PG, but who? You said not Chris Paul. Fine. But how
many PGs are there in the league that would improve the team
as much as losing a quality big like Bynum. I'd say maybe 4
or 5 tops. Off the top of my head, the only PGs I'd consider
trading Bynum for would be: Chris Paul, Deron Williams,
Devin Harris, Derrick Rose.

That's it. And I'd assume that none of those four teams would
give up their star quality PG to gamble on Bynum's potential
vs the threat that he might end up being perennially injured.

And if you take some PG less talented than that (I'd say
Jose Calderon is the next best PG), then you're improving
the PG position, but with the big hit to the front line, you've
made the team worse overall.

JohnnyV,

But I will add...

If any of their teams would be willing, ... I'd be willing to trade
Bynum for CP3, Deron Williams, Devin Harris, or Derrick Rose,
particularly if the deal would include one big with more potential
than MBenga or Powell (e.g. Josh Boone from New Jersey or
Tyrus Thomas from Chicago).

Laker Tom,

More SCIENTIFIC evidence that humans and dogs are co-evolved species:

http://tinyurl.com/l9xv53

Human babies instinctually have evidence for dogs' emotions.

In contrast, cats steal babies' breath while the sleep.

Did I mention that Andrew Bynum is a dog person?

What do we play for? RINGS!!!!

Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.

GO LAKERS!!!!!

Laker Tom,

"Human babies instinctually have evidence for dogs' emotions."

Sorry, I mean 'human babies instinctively have EMPATHY for dogs' emotions."

Dogs rule.

What do we play for? RINGS!!!!

Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.

GO LAKERS!!!!

Is this true? We have come to terms with LO??

http://tinyurl.com/npwo7m

I hope it is! GO LAKERS!

ex,

>>> As of right now, both Bosh and Stoudemire are better than both Bynum and
>>> Odom. They may not be good acquisitions for the Lakers. And if Bynum stays
>>> major-injury free, that may not be the case a year from now. But it seems
>>> pretty obvious that it's the case right now.

We could argue all day over what criteria to use to judge whose better. In this case, however, we were talking about trades and I don’t think any general manager in the NBA would take Chris Bosch or Amare Stoudemire over Andrew Bynum at this point in time. Write off some of it due to potential, but bottom line, neither guy is worth Andrew Bynum.

Here’s the better question: Would you make either trade? I didn’t think so.

Tom

Howdy peeps.

Not much time to chat today, but good to see the faithful are still stressing over LOCO - as am I.

My vote for all-time worst yet favorite dancer is Mad-Dog. The guy just has so much fun, you can't help but like his moves lol !!

It's like when he's on the court. As some have noted, he gives you his best. It may not be enough, it may not be pretty, it may not even totally get the job done, but you know he left it on the court.

That's why Mad-Dog is one of my favorite ex-Lakers. Along with Big Shot Bob. They are both embedded in Laker-lore (for better or worse LOL)!!

C'mon Lamar - sign already.....


With Portland door completely slammed shut (and deadbolted), really all Buss has to do is add a two dollar bill, a good accountant to point out that LA HAS NO SALES TAX ON CANDY, and a twin pack of Snickers to Miami's offer and its the highest he can get. How much leverage is there left on either side?

What could possibly hold up this deal any longer?

I don't know but I look forward to how Kamenetsky will hold our attention spans any longer before we trash the place . . .

blitz,

I’ll ask you the same question I asked ex: Would you make either trade? I didn’t think so.

Tom

Why do so many Lakers fans act like they could trade odom or bynum for CP3?

CP3 is one of the very most elite talents in the NBA and it would be impossible to trade even Kobe for him as he's younger (just as good for a team at this point in his career) and will be much better 3+ years down the line

Jon K -

FYI Re: Cats and Dogs

Cats do not kill babies. Dogs, however, do.

http://tinyurl.com/2mkksp
http://tinyurl.com/mm9w6a
http://tinyurl.com/ks27xc
http://tinyurl.com/5ombab

LTLF;

Yes, all players mentioned are better than Bynum -before injury, after injury, or potential. I like AB - would trade him for the right player if we sign LO.

LakerTom; Not hating on your man or your opinion. However, there is no reason to trade AB unless a great point is deemed necessary.

Johnny & Fatty,

Thanks for your comments. I don’t think anybody is trying to ruffle anybody’s feathers. We’re just all going crazy waiting for Lamar to make up his damn mind. However, there is no way I could possibly allow a “Trade Drew” topic be discussed without chiming in. That would be like allowing the patients to run the institution. LOL.

I mean, if you want to talk about trading a player, how about trading Pau Gasol. After the championship, we could probably get more for Pau than ever. He might even fetch us a top flight point guard like Chris Paul. Would you like that lineup: Kobe Bryant, Chris Paul, Ron Artest, Lamar Odom, and Andrew Bynum? Man, that’s a fantasy team.

Call Mitch. This looks good. Actually, it looks great.

JK, guys. Peace :)

Tom

Ouchhhhhh,

The trademark Stanford is a great deal for Mark Madsen. If you remove that in his resume, he is another Luke Walton, i.e.a less talkative Luke. What makes him a standout is a product of that prestigious university, 8 years in NBA and still smiling after being traded and ready to report for job. That's the Madsen enthusiasm.

In the case of our boy here, he was already offered $10M each year for the next three years to play as a supporting cast to the great potential, still not enthusiastic to accept a measly ten million. Coincidentally, I just learned that the great potential Center will become the best Center of the Lakers ever and ever and ever. We will all be dead in this blog before they could duplicate the future record of this great potential. When will that future comes? Nobody knows. LOL!

I'm glad Madsen is no longer Dancin' with Wolves but is now sailing with the Clippers.

 
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