Like the Facebook status of a girl angry at her boyfriend, free agency, it's complicated
From ESPN.com's Marc Stein in his report from Vegas yesterday evening:
"Reports persist that (Lamar) Odom has been offered deals spanning three and four seasons in length from the Lakers, but that differs sharply from every bankable indication we've received.
The Lakers' best offer to Odom, so far, tops out at
$27 million over three seasons. The expectation among rival teams
remains that the sides will eventually come to terms."
This dovetails nicely with what I heard ESPN's Ric Bucher say emphatically on 710 ESPN's Mason and Irleand Show Thursday afternoon that the best deal Odom has seen was 3/$27. The LA Times and Daily News have reported the Lakers offered Lamar Odom a choice between two deals- one for three years at $30 million, a second for four at $36, but Bucher said if the Lakers went that high, we'd all be on vacation.
With Odom still unsigned and report of an offer from Miami and at least the potential for Portland to make a run now that Utah as matched their offer for Paul Millsap, fair to say the contract details above are a pretty important wrinkle. At least insofar as figuring out where to direct one's ire as a fan.
It also illustrates how hard it can be to disseminate information these days, given the number of outlets and platforms available. Information is spread in so many ways (TV, radio, print, web, Twitter, Facebook, smoke signals, carrier pigeon, telegraph... am I missing any?), and as the infrastructure that surrounds players and teams grow, so to do the number of available sources.
Personally, I tend to gravitate towards local writers when breaking down local teams (in LA or otherwise), and in no way mean to undermine the great work done by our own beat guys at the LAT or writers from competing papers, most of whom I respect a great deal. On the other hand, while hardly infallible (Bucher's infamous Kobe declarations a couple summers ago being the most obvious example) the writers at ESPN and other large, national outlets are hard working, well sourced, and equally dedicated to getting their stories right.
Trying to figure out who has the proper information isn't really my point. I'm not in a position to "call out" any of these guys, since they're all deeper in the situation than I am. Besides, one of the goofier aspects of this job is how two people can report out identical situations, faithfully and properly using reliable sources, cross-checking them... and still come up with different information.
In this case, both scenarios are believable. I can buy the notion that Camp Odom (where the food is delicious and the archery program top notch) is pushing for more money than the market will bear, that the Lakers aren't willing to go past three years whether because of financial considerations or worries about how Odom will age, that LO- as he made fairly clear in his vid AK shot earlier in the week- believes he has a certain value and (despite talk of his willingness to take a pay cut) thinks it should be met, and so on.
If he's only being offered three years by the Lakers, it helps make sense of why questions of a mid-level from Miami seem more important and why they'd be hoping to add Portland to the mix in an effort to add a little leverage to their side. On the other hand, if he left 4/36 on the table without responding, it explains why Dr. Buss would be so annoyed.
It may not be until after this is all sorted out (I'd still lay odds on Odom coming back) that we know for sure how all this went down. Maybe we'll never quite know. But for anxious fans in need of information and clarity, what they get in today's media market, often filled with too much information, may sometimes be worse.
BK
NOTE (7:46 pm)- One thing worth saying, I should have in the post, is that despite the constant updates, Tweeting, web rumors, conflicting reports, and so on, much can still happen that truly does stay in house. Radio silence doesn't mean nobody is talking. It might, but it doesn't have to. Generally speaking, I'd say the less the public knows until things are ironed out and there's news of true consequence to report (in this case, LO is/is not signing with the Lakers), the more likely it is fans will see a happy outcome. BK
You know, RED - maybe it looks good for the Lakers to lose Lamar. Celtics and Lakers are build for believers, and not one Celtic didn't believe that they could win last year - that's why they got so far into the playoffs without two or three big men. With lesser minds, they fold against the Bulls. Same with the Lakers. Losing a weak mind is most definitely a good thing. I'd say that if Lamar signs with the Heat - tough luck for the Heat.
Posted by: Otis | July 17, 2009 at 02:51 PM
What can we offer Boozer?
Posted by: Oz | July 17, 2009 at 03:03 PM
Ric Bucher is a terrible reporter with a long history of being wrong.
I wouldn't quote that guy as a reliable source if he paid me.
Posted by: Pig | July 17, 2009 at 03:05 PM
round em' up Taliq
Posted by: purple & gold summer | July 17, 2009 at 03:06 PM
Otis,
are you kidding me? you have to look at the replacement for odom. ... and we're talking about Josh Powell here. If Bynum plays the same way he did last year and getting into foul trouble comstantly, you think a line up with Powell at PF for 30 mins is going to cut it against the likes of Boston and Cleveland or even Spurs? And even if your claim of Boston plays are strong minded, they only made it to the 2nd round. If Lakers lose LO, they can still make it to the 2nd round but we're talking about championships here. WIthout Odom, there is not ring and thats the bottom line. who cares about western conference champs? I dont. Do you?
Posted by: The_Lamar_Show | July 17, 2009 at 03:08 PM
LO is right he has a certain value that should be met considering he agreed to come off the bench in a contract year and played a vital role in the championship. Not to mention the other contracts that Lakers have given to lesser players. It has to make him sick to know Bynum will make 12.5 Million to play foul prone minutes, it kills me. On the other hand he needs to realize he does not have many options. I think 40 for 5 years is fair.
Posted by: Sean G | July 17, 2009 at 03:13 PM
Here are some Jerry Maguire quotes to lighten up the afternoon:
http://tinyurl.com/n59pya
I think you will find that a lot of the quotes could easily apply to the Odom/Schwarz scenario. Aside from the classic 'Show me the money', my favorite is:
Jerry Maguire: Have you ever gotten the feeling that you aren't completely embarassed yet, but you glimpse tomorrow's embarrassment?
Posted by: The Snake | July 17, 2009 at 03:17 PM
i still refuse to believe odom won’t re-sign with the lakers, but if he does…
it will be the biggest mistake of his professional career, period.
- he will be on a playoff team that gets knocked out in the first or second round ever year
- he will be counted on to deliver the goods (i.e. scoring) every night, not exactly his strongest suit
- he will become a free agent at age 34, after playing more minutes in miami, meaning he’ll be pretty much done
- he’ll be away from the glamour of los angeles - translation: less endorsement money
- he will go down as another complementary piece to a laker championship, not a critical piece to a laker dynasty
- karma is a b*tch, just ask carlos boozer and elton brand. hell, even ask ronny turiaf!
odom, come back to the light. we still love you. all is forgiven if you just sign on the dotted line!
Posted by: cs | July 17, 2009 at 03:18 PM
If Odom comes back, fine.
If not, fine as well.
I've never liked him as player. So, be happy.
It will be a challenge for the team to repeat, for sure. Our margin of error/injury will be minimal.
But it can also be a blessing next off season when we may have a payroll that enables Kupchak to find a good PG to replace Fisher.
Posted by: Allan - Brazil | July 17, 2009 at 03:21 PM
Throughout the saga, I've been thinking that Odom is probably factoring in several things, such as...
-Starting vs. non-starting. If someone can convince him he can be a starter on a contender, that may be more appealing than being a bench player on a contender.
-If Socks progresses and avoids freak accidents, just how much PT can LO expect if he stays in LA, especially with Artest joining the fold and giving us a serious defensive/physical boost?
-Something I haven't seen anyone point out in all this is that LO has been in the trade rumor mill almost since the day he got here. That may be a factor in what seems like his lack of loyalty to the Lakers. Couple in what he may regard as a less-than-worth offer, and it may not be a surprise to see him go.
Oh well....just wait and see I guess.
Posted by: Jason F. | July 17, 2009 at 03:22 PM
I would offer Boozer anything and everything to STAY AWAY! That dude mislead a blind man so he could get out of Cleveland, then he goes to UtaR and takes games off in about 15 to 20 game blocks, gets VASTLY overpaid for what he produced and is now KILLING UtaR payrollwise until they can unload him to the next sucker. What's the over/under on Boozer playing 50 games next year? I'd put that at 50/50...
Also, who needs an undersized, overpaid PF when we've got Gasol and Bynum? Even if we get Joe Smith or someone else, they'll dominate Boozer. I bet Brian... I mean Sean May, after a little schooling from Kareem would TORCH Boozer for us on national tv, then Boozer would take the next 3 games off to soothe his ego...
Posted by: The Children will sing songs about the legend of Dallas Raines' Hair | July 17, 2009 at 03:23 PM
Wasn't Ric Bucher the guy that said Kobe is long gone from the Lakers?
Posted by: Charles | July 17, 2009 at 03:25 PM
Based on the interview with Lamar Odom recently, I'm sure he's the money issue to his agent. If an agent gets a higher commission for the no-brainer higher contract that the Lakers supposedly offered, we wouldn't have the Lamar Watch Summer 2009. He'd already be a Laker.
But then again...Jeff Schwartz might be busting out his best Jerry MacGuire / Rod Tidwell approach right now...and logic doesn't even factor in these talks.
Posted by: Pete | July 17, 2009 at 03:27 PM
The reality is Odom has not yet met with Dr. Buss and I feel this is the real issue. Dr. Buss deserves a face to face with Lamar as he is his employer. The agent is using delaying tactics to find out how high other clubs might be willing to go. If Odom had sat down with Dr. Buss he most likely would have come to terms or Dr. buss would allow him time to explore his options. I think just as in Trevors case, the agents are putting enmity between the players and the owner.
On the other hand Dr. Buss loves to play poker and although the season is over for the players and coaches, for Dr. Buss this is his personal playoffs.
Posted by: bill babishoff | July 17, 2009 at 03:30 PM
Odom is a key piece to the Lakers success and I hope they re-sign him but they will still be very good even if they lose him just not as dominating. I heard Buss paid something like 40 million for the Lakers and now they're woth close to a billion so to not give him an extra million or extra year on his contract seems petty and risky when this team with Odom can win several more championships and without him they will even with the rest of the elite. .
Posted by: Mike G-Man | July 17, 2009 at 03:31 PM
What the hell is going on?
Someone cue Led Zeppelin's "Communication Breakdown".
Methinks that's what's going on.
This is beginning to feel like a Shakespearian tragedy.
"You mean you were just FAKING your suicide? Wow. I guess I shouldn't have drunk all this poison after all, then."
What do we play for? RINGS!!!!
Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.
GO LAKERS!!!!
Posted by: Jon K. | July 17, 2009 at 03:31 PM
CS
I agree with some the stuff you are saying but you never know what will happen tmw.
you saying lamar would be done now to sign with the lakers.... thats only true if you think a ring is worth more than 20 mil. you say he should sign 3 years instead of 5.... what if he gets a career ending injury tomorrow? he just lost out on 20 mil.
and the heat made it to the player off with .... no boozer or odom. if they really get boozer and odom, they can be the top 4 teams in the east. maybe even better than orlando now they replaced turk with loser vince.
and he doesnt need to be the closer since wade is there. and the year he played for miami he DID delivery every night and was heat's most consistant player.
what endorsements have he gotten in la? no much. and miami is not a crappy town either.
and you talking about karma... so what about those 3 players? they all got paid. thats why signing a bigger and longer contract is better because you never know what will happen tomorrow.
and there will not be any dynasty without lamar in LA.
Posted by: The_Lamar_Show | July 17, 2009 at 03:33 PM
odom's agent is just doing his job. he's a good agent. he's gotten a lot of players good contracts. here's a partial list of his clientele: pierce, a. jefferson, t. chandler, josh howard, emeka okafor, jason kidd, korver, villanueva, stackhouse. the dude's no david lee. take his dealings w/jason kidd a week ago as an example. he used new york as leverage, knicks made kidd an offer, then cuban made higher offer to kidd, kidd signs with dallas. that's just how it works. now odom has an offer from the heat, and will likely parlay that into superior offer from lakers. unless buss is as annoyed with odom as has been reported.
Posted by: charles | July 17, 2009 at 03:40 PM
I believe we need Lamar to win another championship, but I'm as tired of hearing about his situation as I am about whether or not Brett Favre is going to come back every year...
Posted by: Chris | July 17, 2009 at 03:48 PM
Lamar Show;
Understood completely, and agreed. I am in favor of Lamar signing with the Lakers and consider him a major cog in the machine. My post was regarding RED posting that it looks bad for the Lakers - and really, it doesn't. Lakers can win with or without Lamar, it would just take growth. But, I'd much rather have LO than lose him. Now listen up: if LO leaves to joint the Heat, what would that say about him? He'll come up short and be happy. Who needs that noise? Not the Lakers - never.
Posted by: Otis | July 17, 2009 at 03:55 PM
Otis wrote: "Now listen up: if LO leaves to *joint* the Heat, what would that say about him?"
Yeah, that sounds about right, Lamar going to joint the Heat. Or is it heat the Joint? Heh.
Posted by: mark | July 17, 2009 at 04:09 PM
If LO comes back to the Lakers,he may not start. With Pau and Artest at forward, he may not play until Pau moves over to center. We may go with 3 forwards at times, with Artest taking a Guard as a defensive assignment, which would work pretty well. LO is dumb if he passes up a chance to dominate the NBA with the Lakers - any other team he'll play for won't be in the playoffs very long, or at all.
Posted by: bditman | July 17, 2009 at 04:11 PM
>>Camp Odom (where the food is delicious and the archery program top notch)
LOL!
you's two's K Bros are top notch!
plz keep 'em comin'!
Posted by: bdawg | July 17, 2009 at 04:12 PM
Whoah. It's like Rashomon or something....
I think we (me) will all look back on this and utterly and savagely mock all of the people who go into hysterics based on weak third hand gossip that turns out to be completely untrue. Mock mercilessly, i tell you. But they won't get it.
Posted by: phred | July 17, 2009 at 04:13 PM
BK, all the love in the world, but I'm not sure what you mean by disseminate. It seems that information is being disseminated all over the place, but finding the truth is most difficult. (yeah, I was going to throw a simile in there, but it would not have gone well)
Posted by: phred | July 17, 2009 at 04:16 PM
I Hope we don't lose Lamar but we still have a very good team that can win the championship. I told you before this is a business it is all about the money. Kobe care about the number of rings he get but Travor and Lamer don't.
Posted by: the candy man | July 17, 2009 at 04:17 PM
I have a better chance of playing for the Lakers next year than Carlos Boozer does. Please stop suggesting it people!
Posted by: puddle | July 17, 2009 at 04:17 PM
Bynum will average a double double, he is now the best center in the West without Yao. Artest is also a guy who can score, he is no Bruce Bowen. He will get 17-19 a game plus rebounds and assists. Then the Lakers will sign some talented veterans to solidify the bench. Then at the deadline trade Farmar/Morrison for a great young gun to some team desperate to pay bills. It is Odom who is missing the train to the ring, not the Lakers. If this is a facebook drama, Odom is the girl, watchng the man add all these pretty girls.
Posted by: unstoppable | July 17, 2009 at 04:17 PM
Blogs are fun, but so far not much more use than creating nervous energy rehashed. We all feel this and wish we knew what we haven't a clue about.
Only Dr Buss and Mitch know what they will do. Only LO and his agent can make a decision, good, or bad for us and LO.
So we have to sit back as the poker continues.
I trust Buss more than Lamar, Buss has the track record. I am behind him LO, or no LO
Posted by: Tony F | July 17, 2009 at 04:18 PM
You can`t use the "loss of endorsement money" argument as to why LO should stay with LA.
I`m sure he has not done any local commercials since becoming a Laker in `04.
He has a "pot-head" reputation, and any company steers clear of having their product endorsed by anyone who is not squeaky clean.
====================================
Meanwhile, Celts & Blazers are trying to pull off a sign and trade...Baby for T. Outlaw!
Posted by: RED`S LOVE CHILD | July 17, 2009 at 04:28 PM
AK and BK, can you please nail down WHAT the Laker's have offered up until now, it seems the #'s are all over the board, is it 10 million for 3 years, 9 million for 3 years, 8 million for four years. Have they offered ANY 5 year deals, Are we sure what the Heat offered is true? and what did they offer? do the Lakers have an offer on the table for the same 5 years at a better amount? all this needs to be answered before we can say anything about how stupid or smart Lamar is.
Posted by: tomK | July 17, 2009 at 04:38 PM
Did you like that one, Mark?
Posted by: Otis | July 17, 2009 at 04:42 PM
Otis, I think Freud would be proud..
Posted by: mark | July 17, 2009 at 04:47 PM
phred,
Yes, finding the truth is always difficult, and today's Brobdingnagian dissemination of misinformation only gives us still more to sort through.
I also agree with you that our post's hysterical reactions to claims from thoroughly dubious sources (e.g. Fido, Rover and Spot) is farcical--but not only will they not get it, with our epidemic national a.d.d., they may not remember it.
Posted by: Laker Kev | July 17, 2009 at 04:56 PM
THIS TOWN AIN'T BIG ENOUGH FOR TWO OF US VARMINT, BACK OFF!!
THE KEY to winning the title next season is Bynum and is the reason why Laker organization is willing to part company with Lamar. With an addition of another MLE PF Lakers should still be the team to beat.
Can Bynum stay healthy and produce?
Why would a player willing to leave NBA's best run organization, best Bossman, best minority owner (Magic), best coach (Zen), best GMs (Mitch & Ronnie), best assistant coaches, surrounded by smart people (Kareem), best fans, the holly wood glitz and go to some PODUNK organization?
Good luck Lamar and TA and hope you find success and happiness in obscurity.
Hasta La Vista baby, Ciao, Sayonara, Namaste, Au revoir, Auf Wiedersehen and Peace out,
Back off!!
Posted by: Yosemite SAM | July 17, 2009 at 05:01 PM
Lamar is very valuable because he pulls down so many rebounds. Especially at the end of games when we need them the most. In my opinion, that will be the aspect of his game we will miss the most and it will be very hard to replace...
Posted by: JERAMY | July 17, 2009 at 05:05 PM
Charles
Bucher may have also said, Kobe will never wear a Lakers uni again.
Posted by: Fatty | July 17, 2009 at 05:16 PM
Hmmmm....
It's been a loooong time since the Lakers have wound up with a truly terrible contract that was just bad from all fronts. I believe that was the Grant contract. All the others, even the bad ones, looked like decent bets when inked. I include Kwame in this category.
No one except Jordon knew just how bad this dude was. And, with all that said, we still got the best two months (All-Star caliber months) out of Kwame's whole career when he stepped in for an injured Mihm.
Only Grant was just bad, bad, bad in every way. Even though he was/is a very likable dude.
With that track record, I still give the nod to Buss somehow re-signing Odom to a contract that seems reasonable.
But, it is still a close race...
--Fearless
Posted by: Fearless | July 17, 2009 at 05:20 PM
Charles
Speaking of agents. Here's David Lee's clients.
He hit one Grand Slam with AB and thought he was Jerry Maguire.
Adams Hassan 193 G 84 USA Vojvodina (Serbia)
Alexander Shawn 188 G USA Soles (Mexico)
Ariza Trevor 203 F 85 DOM-USA Lakers (USA-NBA)
Bluntt Jahsha 198 G 84 USA Boulogne (France)
Bowman Brandon 204 F 84 USA Telekom B. (Germany)
Bynum Andrew 213 C 87 USA Lakers (USA-NBA)
Cook Ashanti 188 G 84 USA Bakersfield J. (USA-D-League)
Dupay Teddy 180 G 79 USA Michigan M. (USA-CBA)
Harrington Junior 193 G 80 USA U.Olimpija (Slovenia)
Hayes Jonas 203 F 81 USA Georgia (USA-NCAA)
Hunter Othello 203 F 86 USA Hawks (USA-NBA)
Slay Ronald 203 F 81 USA Ponce (Puerto Rico)
Stokes Loren 190 G 83 USA Aalstar (Belgium)
Underwood Cory 208 F/C 80 USA Albuquerque (USA-D-League)
Washington Fred 196 F 85 USA Stanford (USA-NCAA)
Williams Nate 210 C 80 USA Molina (Spain)
Williams Darnell 200 F 78 USA Rouen (France)
Posted by: Fatty | July 17, 2009 at 05:21 PM
wow, you can say anything about anybody on this blog nowadays, it seems, as long as they are a 'public figure'
'Brobdingnagian dissemination of misinformation'
wow. i have been one-upped in the three dollar word competition.
good points
I think our national adhd epidemic has more to do with the attention span of our media (as in the true plural sense, not in the same of scapegoating 'the mainstream media') than our attention span as people. It's just the people who want to keep talking who have to keep finding something new to talk about (mea culpa) while most people keep what they believe in the back of their minds to trot out when it's most convenient.
Therefore, my theory is that the people who have bad things to say about Lamar have always had bad things to say about Lamar, they are just now talking the oppurtunity to pile on. Others who respect him more continue to feel that way. Only a few more swayable people really change their minds at any given point.
My intent isn't to change too many people's minds, as they are mostly made up, but to appeal to the rational nature of the best of us to remember to treat people fairly, whether they are 'public figures' or not.
sorry, where did this soapbox come from? Why am I standing on it? Anyway. You know, there was something somebody was saying a little while ago, something about something that happened at the end of the season, there was this championship series, and twenty nine teams didn't do something, and one team did, and it made me really happy. now what was that...
Posted by: phred | July 17, 2009 at 05:27 PM
oh yeah, laker kev, thanks for reminding me to pick up a copy of 'gulliver's travels.' It's been awhile. Lilliputian is a good word when thinking of Red's Love Child's attributes, intellectual or otherwise, I must say.
Posted by: phred | July 17, 2009 at 05:30 PM
Earl Watson is available
I wonder if he will sign for the Vet Min.?
We can always use another pt guard. Every team should 5-6, especially if he went to UCLA.
Posted by: Fatty | July 17, 2009 at 05:30 PM
One last thought before I cook dinner.
Has Fido given any new sure-fire revelations today?
Posted by: Fatty | July 17, 2009 at 05:32 PM
'Brobdingnagian Dissemination' would be a great name for a rock band.
Posted by: phred | July 17, 2009 at 05:34 PM
I remember when he pulled 17,18,19,20 rebounds in a 4 game span. That was his highlight to me!
Posted by: freddyP | July 17, 2009 at 06:01 PM
tomk-
I don't know, and moreover, unless my sources were Jeff Schwartz and Mitch Kupchak strapped to lie detector machines, I'm not sure I could know. I don't think my sources would be any more credible than the guys other veteran reporters have. That's kind of what I was getting at. There are so many sources on so many ends, it's hard to tell what's up and down, you know? Nobody makes stuff up- the ESPN guys (for example) have solid sources, so do the local writers. In the end, the information is still different.
I did have an interesting conversation today with someone in the business, who reminded me that at this point, a lot could be happening behind the scenes that isn't getting out. There wasn't much info before the flurry, there hasn't been much since. That doesn't mean, though, there isn't communication.
Sometimes, too (and this is me talking), things come down to semantics. What is an offer? What is firm? What's been talked about but not made concrete? All that.
In the end, we just have to wait and see.
BK
Posted by: Brian Kamenetzky | July 17, 2009 at 06:03 PM
Man I tell you one thing if l.o. resigns he should be booed at the first game. If we could do it to kobe we should do it to him!! Why the hell would he say he'll take a pay cut then asking for more than he's worth?
Posted by: Number16 | July 17, 2009 at 06:07 PM
phred,
I could never have any realistic hope of one-upping your Shakespearean Laker posts which, thankfully, you are kind enough to provide a translation for.
BTW, I became reacquainted with Swift a few years ago when we were basically forced to homeschool our kids while living in France. It was amazing how they took to him, Shakespeare, Lewis, Greek, Roman and Norse mythology and many of the other classics. Maybe because their minds were as of then unencumbered by Spongebob, X-Men and competing modern literature such as Harry Potter and My Two Moms.
Now we're comfortably settled back in the Matrix, and I've been camped out in the Laker sector, subsection Lamargate for the last few days.
Posted by: Laker Kev | July 17, 2009 at 06:14 PM
People are angry around here, Lakers abstinence syndrome is getting worse and worse.
Don't get angry at Lamar, don't suppose things, don't believe everything is written over the internet. Every minute i get more anxious like everybody. I want Lamar back, but i'm not angry at him, or calling him traitor, greedy or anything. What if he came back? will you retract your words? i don't think so.
Insult the greenies, the funs, the jailblazers, the thuggets, etc. That's they are there for XD
Lamar is trying to do the best for him and his family. Nothing personal, just business. An he isn't on another team right now. Ariza put us in defcon mode, but is not the same agent, or player.
Deep breaths, incense, candles, oriental music, take each other hands... we are in this together, we are not alone, we will survive.
Posted by: MrNano | July 17, 2009 at 06:16 PM
phred,
I think it's up to you, me and a few other bloggers to start that rock band.
Posted by: Laker Kev | July 17, 2009 at 06:17 PM