It's 9:01 pm. Do you know where your starting small forward is?
At 9:01 pm, the NBA's free agency period will officially be underway, and with few young-and-on-the-rise players available on the market, Trevor Ariza has quickly become one of the more intriguing names on the market. His agent, David Lee (you may remember him from such negotiations as "Let's Get Andrew Bynum an Extension!"), says if cut Ariza "bleeds purple and gold." Of course, if the Lakers aren't able to field a competitive offer- Lee thinks interest in TA will be substantial (while you'd hardly expect him to say otherwise, he's likely correct)- Ariza can bleed whatever color he wants but will still be buying his Band-Aids in another city.
Remember, though, not to read too much what Lee, or any other agent, says. He's doing his job. For that matter, as it is around the trade deadline where we always caution against reading too much in to any rumor, July 1 marks the start in another NBA silly season for deals and signings alike.
Writes Kurt at Forum Blue and Gold:
There are about 8 million reasons for this. An agent may tell Ric Bucher something to help his client gain some leverage in negotiations. (Say player X is heavy in negotiations with one team, when the agent gets a feeling out call with moderate interest from another team. Why wouldn’t the agent tell a reporter about that second call, let the first team read about it and hopefully drive up the price?) Often, there are different factions within a front office and one faction may leak their plans to gain fan support vs. another faction. Agents or front office people may tell something true as a sign of good faith to a reporter they like and so they believe them next time when the use the same reporter to gain leverage. And that list of reasons goes on and on..."
Sage words indeed. It's not that every rumor isn't true (for example, I have it on good authority that the LAT would trade AK for a pick and some cap space), just that a) the majority aren't, b) even rumors that make sense or have legs don't necessarily translate to concrete happenings because so many external factors (most involving money and cap/tax issues) can scuttle a team's best laid plans. And of course, the more complicated a trade seems, the less likely it is to happen.
So with all that in mind, set your watches! I don't think there will be a frenzy of late night signings given the state of the economy- nobody wants to overpay at a time when the cap looks to be shrinking- and the tough decisions some teams have between making a move now and holding off for next summer's FA bonanza. At the very least we'll all be presented with piping hot bowls of intense chatter, and while the names aren't as sexy as they will be in '10, the machinations of this year's derby could still be pretty fascinating.
BK
Keep TA, LO and SB...
Posted by: Charles | June 30, 2009 at 12:08 PM
I'm so interested to see the overall approach to free agents in this economy. I don't see one free agent on the market that blows me away. Couple that with few teams having sufficient cap space and of course "2010!!!!!!!!" and what you're going to get is guys like Iverson, Rasheed, Marion, etc. being offered the MLE.
There are going to be teams like the Cavs, Spurs, and Celtics who are going to grab some quality guys with the MLE.
I am willing to be right now that Ariza and Odom both get about $6-$8 million a year.
Posted by: Andrew Z | June 30, 2009 at 12:09 PM
If the Lakers do not re-sign Trevor and LO:
I will blame Kobe for not taking a pay cut.
I will blame Luke and Sasha's bad contracts.
I will blame Trevor and LO for not signing for less.
DO NOT BREAK UP THIS TEAM!
Posted by: passionate Lakers fan | June 30, 2009 at 12:11 PM
TA = We make the offer and sign him tonight.
LO = Let the market dictate the price
Posted by: Charles | June 30, 2009 at 12:12 PM
If the Lakers do not re-sign Trevor and LO:
I will blame Kobe for not taking a pay cut.
I will blame Luke and Sasha's bad contracts.
I will blame Trevor and LO for not signing for less.
DO NOT BREAK UP THIS TEAM!
Posted by: passionate Lakers fan | June 30, 2009 at 12:11 PM
ps: Shannon must come back too.
Posted by: passionate Lakers fan | June 30, 2009 at 12:12 PM
Now comes the moment (or long dragged out moments) of TRUTH. What are other teams willing to offer Ariza and Odom?
These are key players we all want to see back. But the Lakers have big money committed to more important players named Bryant and Gasol. The Laker budget for Ariza and Odom will be strong, but with some limits.
Buss/Kupchack/Jackson no doubt want to sign these guys but to some degree the market will decide if that is viable. If some other teams thinks one of these guys is the "one piece" they need and overpays, the Lakers may be forced to plan B, unless of course Kobe agree to play for free for a couple of years or Jerry Buss decides, hell with profit, this team is just a nice hobby.
Meanwhile we all suffer the wait. Let's hope we bring these guys back and make another run. It is the best case scenaro for the Lakers, short of trading Sun Yue for Chris Paul.
Especially Ariza, I think he has only begun to show what he can do. Over the long haul he could be a great piece for this team. I like Odom too, but he is older and if (if if if ) Bynum comes through his minutes could get squeezed. Ariza could start at SF for years to come.
Posted by: Tom Daniels | June 30, 2009 at 12:20 PM
1) Phil Jackson (X) will be back next year.
2) Kobe will not opt out this summer (which helps the Lakers financial situation - short term, of course).
3) Lakers will only be able to re-sign 2 of their 3 free agents.*
----> I'm prognosticating Odom & Brown. Ariza is young & coming off the type of postseason he had, there is an invaluable perception of "upside/unrealized potential" to his game. This means some team throws $7.5 - 8 millie his way which I doubt the Lakers match.
* This is offset by the slim to none (and slim just left the building =) chance that Ariza is enlightened enough to understand how much his game flourishes when he's on the court w/Kobe & how much more beneficial it will be to his game to remain under the tutelage of Bryant & X for another few years (and then ca$h out).
That's how I see it happening. Only time will tell. We'll shall see.
No$tra-
Posted by: NostraDUMBA$$ | June 30, 2009 at 12:30 PM
Why are contracts in the NBA guranteed? Get rid of that, and the league will increase in quality overnight.
Why are role players in the NBA now wanting more than the midlevel? Why do you they want double the midlevel? 10 mil? 10 mil for 10 rebounds and 10 garbage points? These guys would have non-existent offence without the real stars.
I think owners need to keep the spending under control and restructure the player market:
Scrubs: 1-5 mil
Solid Role Player: 5 mil
Glorifed Role Player (2 dimensional, ie rebounds and steals, really really consistent): 7 mil
Player that demands a double team on offence: 10 mil
Allstar: 12 mil
Superstar: 14 mil
The main thing about this scale is this: If you don't demand a double team consistently, you don't deserve anything above 7 million a year. And that is the problem in the NBA, role players or glorified role players are demanding above that 7 million threshold, which doesn't make sense to me...why would you pay someone 9-10 million that doesn't even demand a consistent double team and highly struggle offensively without superstar and allstar assistance and decoy help?
Ariza: Solid role player, but in his case, has potential to be gloried role player specialist, wouldn't give more than 7 a year and that is highly generous. You're paying for potential, and potential for consistency.
Odom: 10 mil. However there should be other factors that owners should consider as well such as high inconsistency which bumps the automatic 10 mil down to 7-10 mil, but thats what non-guranteed contracts would fix, owners could drop inconsistent 10 mil players sooner...
Posted by: lamamba | June 30, 2009 at 12:32 PM
Role players getting 10 mil a year is just wrong. Is there that huge a difference between a garbage man and Paul Milsapp and Trevor Ariza? If you're honest, you'll admit that the biggest difference is 6 inches of height, because at the end of the day both employees share the same essential traits: they work really hard and consistently at their jobs at tasks that mainly require little skill and mostly hustle...yet is there a 10 million dollar difference between the two parties???
Posted by: lamamba | June 30, 2009 at 12:35 PM
The honest values for Ariza and Odom are these:
Ariza 5 mil/year
Odom 7 mil/year
Posted by: lamamba | June 30, 2009 at 12:41 PM
Trade AK for cap space and re-sign TA, LO AND SB!
So sayeth JS.
Posted by: Jamie Sweet | June 30, 2009 at 12:48 PM
lamamba,
"Why are contracts in the NBA guranteed? Get rid of that, and the league will increase in quality overnight."
I see you ain't tryna make friends with sasha, luke or bynum ...
A contract is a contract though ... if a team wants to protect itself they can negotiate an option to terminate the contract into the deal ... caveat being if another team is willing to make the same offer without the option you lose out
Personally if I were a gm I'd make an offer less than what I think is market value (unless I'm dealing with a bonafide superstar like a dwade) and then see if any other team makes a better offer ... if they do, I get on my knees and apologize and 1up the other guys
Unfortunately laker way seems to be to outbid ourselves, ala bynum, sasha and luke's contract ... it's not so much that the offers were generous ... it's that Mitch didn't wait to see if other teams were just as interested ... still if you believe lakertom, not putting your best foot forward initially means your free agent will play for less elsewhere since they'd feel insulted
Anywho enough rambling ... I ain't geeked that Ariza shares the same Agent that got us to overpay for Bynum but I'd like to see him back do w/e it takes yo ... and oh is it surprising that the agent is saying ariza won't take an la discount? wonder where BKs criticism of him is now ... not that I think ariza deserves to be criticized but looking for some tacky consistency on BKs part since he refuses to retract (yup i'm d type that'd stab myself just so my ghost can go beat up the ghost of d dead horse some more )
also I read somewhere (maybe on this blog) that celtics are getting rasheed wallace ... idk y'all if KG is healthy oh wow ... perharps it's time we start demanding even more from Buss ... like u know ... ariza/odom and andre miller or sumthin like dat .. then again i'm happy with shannon brown if farmar can leave so brown gets all his minutes
Got the book and the dvd (which apparently doesn't get released till mid july ... bummer) ... the gear will have to wait till next month when my pennies get re-upped
Wishing I had a girl friend that'd buy me lakers gear ... sigh
Posted by: Taliq | June 30, 2009 at 12:55 PM
Unless Ariza gets a ridiculous Rashard Lewis type contract offer which is highly unlikely inthis economy, I see him staying with the Purple & Gold.
Note to Jerry Buss: Cash in your poker chips boss, it's time to pay those who keep your cash flow flowin'. Get it done!
Posted by: EastCoastJessie | June 30, 2009 at 12:56 PM
It's all on the demand side. Who is interested in LO & Ariza besides the Lakers? Just read a Det News article saying the Pistons are targeting Gordon & Villanueva. No mention of our 2 guys. Pistons seem to be the biggest threat with money and the will to spend so hopefully this turns out to be true.
I really don't see any other team with cap space making these guys a top priority considering:
1) Cap space lowered
2) Big market coming in 2010 with players who can truly remake a franchise
3) LO & Ariza look good when you have Kobe & Pau. They won't get those open 3s on the Pistons
Ignore what Ariza's agent says. He's not going to say "I think the Lakers' will get my client for cheap 'cause the market's weak out there." He's hyping his client because that's his job.
Bottom line: Lakers want these guys back more than anyone else who can outbid them.
Posted by: Scott | June 30, 2009 at 12:56 PM
lamamba,
iza 5 mil/year
Odom 7 mil/year
Ariza maybe ... but I dont see Odom taking anything less than 9 mil ... and really y'all if we're being honest ... does it make any sense for Bynum to get paid more than 2ce what Odom gets? ... or am I the only one thinking that Bynum contract is a horrible deal ... then again better to have Bynum than Yao Ming (sorry houston)
Posted by: Taliq | June 30, 2009 at 12:58 PM
passionate laker fan,
If the Lakers do not re-sign Trevor and LO:
I will blame Kobe for not taking a pay cut.
I will blame Luke and Sasha's bad contracts.
I will blame Trevor and LO for not signing for less.
DO NOT BREAK UP THIS TEAM!
Hmm how about putting blame kobe at the bottom ... u know out of respect for our finals mvp (notice i ain't say take it off, i'm tryna b nice to all y'all dummies) ... and how about asking PJ not to make 12mil next year and oh i don't see JBuss anywhere for luxury tax ... and oh yeah don't forget fans supporting a ticket price increase
Seriously though the only thing I think u have a legitimate gripe about is the bad contracts and JBuss (which u dont have on there now) ... the rest is just u hating on not making millions ... trust if u got blessed with 10mil yearly ... u'd be amazed how much u could help ya fam, how much u could enjoy certain things in life u can't even begin to dream of right now ...
e.g. I wonder what the cost of putting my fam in vegas for a week ... actually make that paris for a week ... vegas with my frends for another week ... frends and fam meeting up in la to watch every single home playoff game courtside seats with 5 star accomodations ... oh how i would enjoy being a laker fan if I was that blessed yo ... and no i would not take a paycut just so i could donate some money to Buss so he could keep my team competitive ... if he wanted some of my dough, i'd ask for an ownership stake even if it was just 0.0005% ... or maybe a week living with kobe lol ... now i'd take a paycut for that ...
Posted by: Taliq | June 30, 2009 at 01:05 PM
Oh! Oh! Oh! Doug Collins is going to coach Kwame Brown???
EVERYBODY! Pull up a chair for this one! Collins is gonna tear Kwame a new one... I give that sideshow... about a month... LOL!
Man! The "ex-Lakers" are tearing up payroll around the league. Kwame exercises his option, Brian Cook exercised his option in Houston and now Devean George "en fuego" just exercised his option with Dallas...
Posted by: Dallas Raines' Hair | June 30, 2009 at 01:06 PM
I don't think I need a tinyurl for this but... Amare is posting about the Lakers again...
https://twitter.com/Amareisreal
smoke? or just messing around?
Posted by: Dallas Raines' Hair | June 30, 2009 at 01:10 PM
"Does Yao's situation make you more nervous about various Lakers, whether Kobe Bryant, Pau Gasol, Sasha Vujacic or DJ Mbenga, representing their country in Olympic play?"
Heck yes! I can't sleep at night thinking Mbenga might get injured.
Posted by: Marty | June 30, 2009 at 01:11 PM
Tom Daniels
>>>What are other teams willing to offer Ariza and Odom?
THAT, above all other things, is the 64 thousand dollar question.
To be honest, I think if they make Lamar a reasonable offer
(say something starting in the neighborhood of 8 mil) he will
take it.
It sounds like Ariza's agent is trying to milk the situation though,
so it might take a couple of days of David Lee shopping Ariza
around trying to get a better offer before he signs.
I'm sure there are a few teams that would be happy to pay
Trevor MLE level money, but I'm not so sure there's anyone
out there willing to pay him 9 or 10 million per.
Posted by: LongTimeLakerFan | June 30, 2009 at 01:17 PM
Taliq, interesting reminder of the player option.
There really aren't any other examples in life where you have a job and are guranteed pay regardless of your performance...so why in the NBA are there constant underachieving players getting paid multimillions for playing like crap? They basically won the physiological over 6'5 lottery and are milking it, when in reality if most of these guys were a few inches shorter they'd have trouble competing for careers in fastfood...
If the owners don't want to put their foot down and demand non-guranteed contracts in the next agreement, then I would really like to see more GM's put in team options on the 2nd and 4th year of every contract they sign...so if you sign a Lamar Odom to 70 million and he only shows up every 10 games, the next year you can tell him, screw you, I'm not paying you, go apply at Burger King, rather then him and his agent saying screw you I don't care if I slacked off pay me...
Ariza, you want 10 mill? Sure, but there's a team option on year 2 and 4, and if you don't put up 15/10 next yr, you're out buddy...Bynum, you want 12 mil a year? You don't put up 18/12, you're out too...the players have too much power
Posted by: lamamba | June 30, 2009 at 01:24 PM
Taliq ( and other Lakers book lovers)
for all the good work u did in the past few days, i got u the OC reg. book for 15.96 and 3.99 shipping. so u got the 8 dollar Kobe discount.
http://tinyurl.com/nt7fx4
enjoy!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: ouchhhhhhhhh | June 30, 2009 at 01:29 PM
Taliq / Mamba24 - thanks for your responses to my question last thread - much appreciated!
___________________
Ain't no cure fo' the summertime blues....
Posted by: VMan
Oh VMan - I beg to differ!! You got your Tivo. You got your DVD. You got your books and magazine articles. You got your award winning LA Times Laker Blog. You got your Laker gear that you can wear anytime - to bed, in the shower.... The cure is simply do it all at once whenever you start to feel blue, nostalgic or downright in full jitter withdrawl mode. Works like a charm every time!
Posted by: justanothermambafan | June 30, 2009 at 01:30 PM
Some role players are easily replaced and others are not. As much as I loved Turiaf, he was not a difference-maker, so when he got a big offer, we understandably let him leave. Fisher, however, did make a difference, and when Golden State offered more than we were willing, we didn't have a point guard replacement to make up for the loss.
Ariza and Odom are both difference makers. Look at their big contributions during the season and playoffs and you could easily make the argument we'd still be looking for Ring #15.
Now I know these two will not be hitting the 3-pointers next year like they did this year. But by then, Sasha will be on again. That's just life. We don't need A & O for arc shooting. We need them for defense and rebounding.
Case in point: We lost Horry as a free agent after he tanked in the WCF, shooting, what, 3 of 27 or something? But we lost his intangibles and it hurt us.
I hope we can keep Candyman and the Thief!
Posted by: Marty | June 30, 2009 at 01:31 PM
"If you cut him, he bleeds purple and gold," Lee said. "The issue is whether the Lakers want to pay him."
I don't think his agent could have said it any better ... the man's worked his butt off ... if detroit offers him say 10mil who are we to say he should take a pay cut?
I know we want them all back ... but lets not disregard the rules of the game ... ala luxury tax, ala we paid bynum franchise center money, etc etc ... either sit back and let Mitch do his job or put up sensible suggestion such as hey Rasheed Wallace is gonna b on the market ... can we get him cheaper for odom and less years? ... Artest is available? Wouldn't him and Kobe in the backcourt take us to yet another level defensively ... if PJ is coming back for another 2 years, can't he manage artests craziness at least till Bynum's contract runs out (if u're assuming bynum doesn't turn into a franchise center)
But again demanding nba players take a pay cut on pay day after a championship season is just retarded ... might as well just come out and say all nba players are overpaid and there should be a league wide 30% pay cut ... and oh the "kobe wants to win" so he should be singled out ... or ariza wants to win so he should be singled out is just silly ... what are the rest of the teams/players in the league for? to sell tickets ... theoretically everyone wants to win ... to try and somehow argue that cuz player A and B work harder than player C and D and thus want it more so they should take a paycut cuz they're getting more joy out of winning is border line lunacy ...
or even worse, they're in a position to win a championship so they should take a paycut ... doesn't it seem ridiculous that it's the champions that make less?
Posted by: Taliq | June 30, 2009 at 01:33 PM
I don't know folks...Amare's being VERY persistent on this one. He's trying to send Buss a message that he'll take less money. Who would we have to give up for him though. Ugh I'm so torn. Of course you'd want a guy like Amare on your team but at what price?
Posted by: EastCoastJessie | June 30, 2009 at 01:34 PM
should we explore bringing in Artest if Ariza leaves? If Yao is out for the season, then Artest might be more inclined to go elsewhere for the mid level in order to get a title.
Posted by: blh | June 30, 2009 at 01:35 PM
This waiting and wondering is killing me.
I'm going to be in full arrest soon - not to mention bald from tearing my hair out - and toothless from grinding my teeth - and jittery from Laker withdrawal - you get the picture...
Actually - can you be having withdrawal symptons and be in full arrest at the same time? The questions one ponders while waiting for THE MOST IMPORTANT DECISIONS AFFECTING THIS TEAM'S FUTURE.
Yup - losing it over here.....
Posted by: justanothermambafan | June 30, 2009 at 01:35 PM
lamamba,
"the players have too much power"
Or perharps they're just too many silly GMs out there overpaying players ... like really how many people think rashard lewis deserves his contract? ... Still scratching my head on that one
Posted by: Taliq | June 30, 2009 at 01:39 PM
Justanothermambafan,
>>> I'm going to be in full arrest soon - not to mention bald from tearing my hair out - and toothless from grinding my teeth ...
As Vic the Brick might say, "FEELIN' YOU!"
Me. I'm not too worried. The chance for a Dynasty doesn't come along too often. Buss is a poker player. I'm betting he likes the odds and will sign the checks.
Go Lakers!
Posted by: Rick Friedman | June 30, 2009 at 01:44 PM
Wow, Amar'e is really not too bright.
Knowing Kupchak's style, Ariza and Odom get near max what the Lakers would offer them at the start of the festivities.
Kupchak doesn't do everything perfectly, but he does do a very good job of keeping us fans in the early loop so we know who's gonna play for us.
Posted by: Benjamin | June 30, 2009 at 01:44 PM
I don't see how we can lose Ariza. What he does is so valuable, he doesn't HAVE to score, he is willing to score, he doesn't get statistical credit for what he does on defense yet, other teams can't make some of those lazy passes they used to be able to do because THE THIEF will take it and score on a fastbreak. We can't replace him. Artest? You want to bet an entire season on that nutcase? Maybe he comes to LA, buckles under the pressure and starts tossing cakes at people?
We can "afford" to lose Odom because we have guys and could bring in another to fill those minutes but the locker room presence of Lamar would be a big loss.
From Phil's radio interview, I almost get the impression Shannon Brown is indeed being looked at as either the starter or the recipient of most of the available minutes at PG going forward. Fisher had an awesome Orlando series but before that... man... people were BLOWING past him and putting foul pressure on our bigs. I'd be shocked if Shannon didn't sign fairly quickly and we pick up some quick, small guard somewhere. Last year, Ariza was the "most interesting man in the world", now possibly, Shannon Brown, if he develops his game this summer becomes quite interesting, especially if Farmar is moved.
Posted by: Dallas Raines' Hair | June 30, 2009 at 01:45 PM
I'm done being scared yo ...
Ariza/Odom we want you back ...
But make no mistake ... if you're sporting another jersey next year ... you won't enjoy the games in which u face us ... and u ain't getting a ring for another 5 years
We are the freaking Lakers ... and this is your home
What do we play for .... RINGS ... CHAMPIONSHIPS ... DYNASTIES
24 + 16 + [1]7 = The Purple Tinted Golden Age
Posted by: Taliq | June 30, 2009 at 01:47 PM
EastCoastJessie,
"Of course you'd want a guy like Amare on your team but at what price?"
I'm sorry yo but I ain't an Amare fan ... gimme sheed for less money ... gimme artest for more headaches and incredible defense ... but i'll pass on mr. stats
Posted by: Taliq | June 30, 2009 at 01:49 PM
I think with Ariza, the worry is a good, competitive team coming in and making an offer too big for TA to pass up. I don't know if there's one out there that could/would make that happen. But if it's a question of say, Memphis offering 10-15% more than what the Lakers can meet, I think LA has a good chance. They don't necessarily need the highest offer, but the Lakers can't afford not to be competitive if they want to keep TA.
Odom is less likely in my mind to get that big offer from a quality team. Short of a Detroit, not good right now but historically competitive, I don't see what team with cap space would burn it on Odom. After that, teams are left with the mid-level, and the Lakers can go higher. I'd certainly be disappointed in either guy if he bypassed a solid offer from LAL to get a couple extra mil for a far lesser team.
BK
Posted by: Brian Kamenetzky | June 30, 2009 at 01:50 PM
Andrew Z,
"I am willing to be right now that Ariza and Odom both get about $6-$8 million a year."
Getting both for 16 mil is a steal yo ... ain't that what bynum will be making?
I say Odom gets 9 and Ariza gets 6+ ... that seems fair to me ...
Posted by: Taliq | June 30, 2009 at 01:52 PM
I want those three back as much as anyone. They are all great players and great guys, but I wonder: how much worse off would we be if we signed Rasheed Wallace and either Marion or Artest? Surely not that far of a drop, especially since all of those guys have a lot to prove...
Posted by: Maxwell | June 30, 2009 at 01:54 PM
C'mon AK, you're an LA Timeser (yes, new word) for life.
The trade the LA Times should SERIOUSLY consider is Plaschke and Simers to Chicago Sun for a meatball hoagie and a baseball signed by Giovanni Soto's niece. I think the LA Times wins out easily on that deal.
Posted by: puddle | June 30, 2009 at 01:54 PM
RE-SIGNING LAMAR AND TREVOR
The level of interest that other teams will have in the Lakers two key free agents is totally dependent upon whether or not the team is under the salary cap, otherwise the most they can an offer another team’s free agent is their MLE, worth about $5.5M next year.
Lamar and Trevor will both probably re-sign for the Lakers for MORE than the MLE, which would thus eliminate teams over the cap as competitors to sign either player.
Here are the teams that are under the cap as of right now that could offer more than the MLE to try and lure Lamar or Trevor to leave the Lakers:
1. Memphis - $20M
2. Detroit - $17M
3. Atlanta - $14M
4. Oklahoma City - $10M
5. Portland – $9M if Outlaw and Blake are cut
6. Utah - $9M if Boozer, Okur, and Korver all opt out
7 Sacramento – $7M
Here is my take on what it will take to re-sign Lamar and Trevor:
1. Lamar – Currently making $11M. Will re-sign 3-year deal for $8M, $9M, and $10M.
2. Trevor – Currently making $3M. Will re-sign 3-year deal for $6M, $7M, and $8M.
I don’t see any of the 7 teams who are under the cap making a big play for either Lamar or Trevor, not considering the current economy and the fact that both want to return to the Lakers and teams are prone to hoarding cap dollars until next year’s free agent bonanza.
So rest easy, Lakers Fans. Lamar and Trevor are both coming back. In fact, the Lakers have already made a series of moves and have expiring contracts lined up over the next few years to help keep their payroll in check while they lock up their Core-5 Players.
- - - - -
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | June 30, 2009 at 01:55 PM
Contending teams who can spend money have all made their moves to acquire Jefferson (Spurs), Shaq (Magic)and Carter (Cavs), nothing to spend (Celtics). These are the top four in the league.
That helps a lot for the Lakers, the non-elite teams are not going to spend in this economy, especially not to role players like AR, LO and SB. If ever they spend they want a a better player that could have bigger impact and can sell tickets like Boozer, Iverson, Hedo or they all wait in the summer of 2010.
Odom should get paid 9-10 mil, Trevor 6-7 mil. SB 3-3.5 mil. I do not see any teams offering them more than that. If they do, it would not be a good business decisions for them.
24 NBA teams did not make a profit this year.
What's crazy? The teams that have already made their moves (Cavs, Spurs) are the same teams that could use an Odom and takes away an important piece from their Finals rival the LAKERS.
Cavs and Spurs are both still looking for their final piece of the puzzle which is a 4 who can go out and guard the quicker 4's. Odom fits exactly what they are looking for.
For the championship contending teams Odom will have a lot of value for them more than Boozer, AI and Hedo.
Rasheed and Odom will get interest from these teams.
This is why Odom will be the hardest one to keep.
Imagine Tim, Odom, Jefferson or Shaq, Odom, James
If Spurs and Cavs are willing to buy the NBA title this is the best way. Gain Odom and your Lakers rival looses.
Posted by: Staples 24 | June 30, 2009 at 01:58 PM
L Odom could be in Spurs or Cavs uniform next year and still win an MBA tiltle..
If I am the Spurs or Cavs it will be worth paying Odom 14 mil a year. Lakers can not match it. Odom will sign for sure.
7 mil to help their team win, and 7 Mil to help the Lakers loose.
Posted by: Staples 24 | June 30, 2009 at 02:07 PM
LakerTom/LongTimeLakerFAn and others from the last thread and this thread as well....
For an agent to come out and say "my client wont give the Lakers a home town discount"..In one sentence..Then he said "If you cut him he bleeds purple and gold"...????????????????????
How can this guy be trusted?.. trusted?...Mitch sounds pretty content on not overpaying..
The thing that worries me is that it turns out to be an ELTON BRAND situation...If it did get to that i would be very upset...Lets hope not..
Posted by: Thirty2 | June 30, 2009 at 02:10 PM
Shouldn't Ariza be bleeding "Forum Blue" and Gold?
Ariza's agent may have been fishing. Other teams know Ariza and Odom would prefer to stay with the WORLD CHAMPION LAS ANGELES LAKERS.
The fact is, and this just occured to me because I am slow, that the only way to get either of these guys is to way outbid the Lakers. Offer just just a little more cash and they would stay put or the Lakers could come up a bit. You would have to seriously outbid LA to move these guys.
I don't see a lot GMs wanting to play that game. It isn't real smart.
That's my optimistic take for today.
Posted by: Tom Daniels | June 30, 2009 at 02:11 PM
Odom is in Cavs uniform feeding Lebron and Shaq.
Lebron get his first NBA FINALS MVP AND NBA tiltle at age 25.
Shaq gets his 5th NBA tilte, and this era gets known as the Age of Shaq, instead of the age of Kobe.
========
Odom in Spurs uniform averages 13 rebounds a game.
Duncan gets his 5th NBA tilte, and this era gets known as the Age of Tim Duncan, instead of the age of Kobe.
========
How important is to sign Odom?
Posted by: Staples 24 | June 30, 2009 at 02:14 PM
Rumor has it that...
The Lakers and Pacers are discussing a deal for much maligned point guard Jamal Tinsley. Specifics are still being worked out, but the principals are Tinsley and Marquis Daniels (in a sign-and-trade) for a package that includes Jordan Farmar, Adam Morrison and Luke Walton.
Pacers president Larry Bird is said to be high on Morrison, seeing more than a modicum of himself in the ex-Gonzaga star. While Walton's contract is longer than Tinsley's, the net dollar amount on both is in the same neighborhood, making it palatable for Indiana.
Mitch Kupchak and Phil Jackson are said to be intrigued by the veteran Tinsley, who would serve as Derek Fisher's back-up, while coming off the books a year earlier than Walton, who was a Jackson favorite. Daniels, who the Pacers declined to pick up an option on, will come off the bench, giving the Lakers some much-needed defense on the perimeter.
Posted by: rumor | June 30, 2009 at 02:21 PM
what is the deal with all these fake rumors this year? Yeah, there have been a lot in the past but... come on... this is the worst it's been in awhile, they even misspelled "Jamaal" on that one... they can't spell his name but they can make up a rumor about him?
Come on, you're better than that!
Posted by: Dallas Raines' Hair | June 30, 2009 at 02:33 PM
Rumor...That sounds like an Xbox 360 NBAlive trade....
Please tread carefully.....
Posted by: Thirty2 | June 30, 2009 at 02:35 PM
Staples 24
Lebron is not Kobe
Duncan isn't Kobe
That means instead of Odom disappearing 4 out of 7 games, he disappears 6 out of 7.
Posted by: Magia32 | June 30, 2009 at 02:36 PM
i hope odom shot himself in the foot, regarding other teams GMs by his own PR
i like candies regardless of the brand: quantity > quality
i'm a socialite: young enough, handsome enough to be well received
as a professional bb player i have to be reminded to keep myself in shape
i am one of the most versatile players in the league: i can squander several point blank scoring opportunities by missing layups, committing offensive fouls and losing the ball.
i am a lefty not only properly but also figuratively
and last and not least, between being a brain midget or drifting through my foggy sugar induced brain, i can deliver my customary "triple single" with seven points, eight rebounds and four assists in 33 minutes
-----------------
i'm wondering how many GMs know all the FACETS of Lamar Odom. and all the improvements he did to his game in the past 5 years to become an all star while going from the franchise player (oh, i forgot the clippers was that team) to a bench player who could not deliver the 6th man of the year award.
Lamar Odom: get a mirror
by the way: it is the first time in years that i started to enjoy him as a human being after the exit interviews and what i like the most is the fact that FINALLY he accepted his ROLE on this team.
he is a keeper.
Posted by: ouchhhhhhhhh | June 30, 2009 at 02:42 PM
David Lee is ranked as the 58th agent in the NBA
http://hoopshype.com/agents/david_lee.htm
how come Kupcake chocked on the AB signing?
he also blinked in the Shaq trade
will he blink with ariza?!!!!!!!!!!!!! maybe he should play more poker with Buss. but maybe Buss is a bad poker player too.
Posted by: ouchhhhhhhhh | June 30, 2009 at 02:48 PM
Thirty2,
>>> How can this guy be trusted?.. trusted?...
>>> Mitch sounds pretty content on not overpaying..
Relax. David Lee is just doing his job. He did the same thing with Drew in commenting that he wanted a max deal. Trevor does not want to leave. Lakers will re-sign him for 3-years at $6M, $7M, and $8M per year.
>>> The thing that worries me is that it turns out to be an ELTON BRAND situation...
>>> If it did get to that i would be very upset...Lets hope not..
The Elton Brand fiasco was the result of terrible negotiating by the Clippers and Donald Sterling that led to Falk advising his client to sign elsewhere. Dealing with a professional like Mitch Kupchak and the Lakers is an entirely different story. There was really no reason for Brand to be loyal to the Clippers whereas we know Trevor bleeds purple and gold. He will resign as will Lamar.
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | June 30, 2009 at 02:55 PM
rumor
Do you have a link for that; rumor?
Posted by: Charles | June 30, 2009 at 02:55 PM
If the Lakers do not re-sign Trevor and LO:
I will blame Kobe for not taking a pay cut.
I will blame Luke and Sasha's bad contracts.
I will blame Trevor and LO for not signing for less.
DO NOT BREAK UP THIS TEAM!
Posted by: passionate Lakers fan | June 30, 2009 at 12:11 PM
I'm a passionate Laker fan (sometimes to the annoyance of family and friends,) but I'm having a really hard time blaming Kobe for not taking a pay cut. In what business is the top producing, best employee in the industry expected to take a pay cut? None. That person always makes more, period. I was of the 'whatever is necessary for the players to do to keep the team together' mindset, but the more I think about it, the more ridiculous it is. Yes, they all want to win more championships and money isn't everything (especially when you can make your mark on history,) but work is work and few of us would ever take a pay cut to keep a co-worker in the company if the organization is making money and could afford to pay him/her. KB24 had it right in his exit interview; it's management's responsibility to keep the team together, not his. I imagine he'll do right by the team by doing what's best with his contract, but taking less money (while I agree he doesn't need it) is unreasonable and unfair.
Posted by: Chris | June 30, 2009 at 02:56 PM
Rob Pelinka's players (the agent representing Kobe) can have a shot at the championship. all positions r covered by all stars?!
http://hoopshype.com/agents/rob_pelinka.htm
or watch the flash at his home page
http://www.thelandmarksportsagency.com/
Posted by: ouchhhhhhhhh | June 30, 2009 at 02:58 PM
lamamba
Non-guaranteed contracts? I really don't want the NBA to turn into the NFL. Cutting people on a whim is pretty petty, and shows that the owners don't really value the players any farther than their time on the field.
Posted by: Caliphilosopher | June 30, 2009 at 03:02 PM
Off the subject of money and onto the subject of intangibles; we should not discount the powers of teamwork, recognition, appreciation, love, camaraderie, the highest level of achievement, and amazing victory parades. There are the 'I want to stay a Laker' comments made by players (a lot of guys say that about their winning teams,) and there are the very rare intangibles that winning the most coveted prize in the world will bring. In the end, I think our key FA's will get paid what's fair by the Lakers and they'll be happy to stay in the Purple and Gold, being afforded the opportunity to make their marks on history.
Posted by: Chris | June 30, 2009 at 03:07 PM
let's re-sign Robert Horry!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: iamsonotkidding | June 30, 2009 at 03:08 PM
Tom Daniels
>>>What are other teams willing to offer Ariza and Odom?
THAT, above all other things, is the 64 thousand dollar question.
To be honest, I think if they make Lamar a reasonable offer
(say something starting in the neighborhood of 8 mil) he will
take it.
It sounds like Ariza's agent is trying to milk the situation though,
so it might take a couple of days of David Lee shopping Ariza
around trying to get a better offer before he signs.
I'm sure there are a few teams that would be happy to pay
Trevor MLE level money, but I'm not so sure there's anyone
out there willing to pay him 9 or 10 million per.
Posted by: LongTimeLakerFan | June 30, 2009 at 01:17 PM
================
LTLF
Sorry to disagree but lest you forget, Rony was projected to get MLE money but got a 17 million dollar contract. Lakers said too rich for us, and let him go.
He got his money and we got our rings. He even said he wanted to stay a Laker. How did that work out?
In this crazy NBA you can't predict what some owners will be willing to pay regardless of screwing up their ledgers.
Then they complain how players ask for too much yet they throw the bucks around like confetti on less than stars (role players). They need to follow J. Buss and build a competitive team paying what they can afford. Then after fielding money making suport from followers of team they then can pay more and go into tax. Field a great team and money will follow.
Posted by: JustaLakerFan | June 30, 2009 at 03:09 PM
Chris,
Is it ridiculous to take a pay cut to work at something/work somewhere that allows you to reach your personal (non-monetary) goals? Hardly - people do it all the time. Kobe has repeatedly stated that his main goal is winning titles. If so, then he can improve the chances of that happening by taking less money.
That does not mean it's wrong if he decides not to take a pay cut. And it doesn't mean he is to blame if the team doesn't win.
But it's NOT ridiculous to suggest that Kobe do something that is in line with his own publicly stated goals.
Posted by: exhelodrvr | June 30, 2009 at 03:15 PM
Can TA still perform at the same level this year with a different team next year?
Posted by: 2ku | June 30, 2009 at 03:23 PM
I don't know folks...Amare's being VERY persistent on this one. He's trying to send Buss a message that he'll take less money. Who would we have to give up for him though. Ugh I'm so torn. Of course you'd want a guy like Amare on your team but at what price?
Posted by: EastCoastJessie | June 30, 2009 at 01:34 PM
================
I think he has wishful thinking but keeping his hat in the ring if LO bolts.
I hope they take Farmar and Luke. That won't happen but wish they would.
Posted by: JustaLakerFan | June 30, 2009 at 03:25 PM
Chris,
Is it ridiculous to take a pay cut to work at something/work somewhere that allows you to reach your personal (non-monetary) goals? Hardly - people do it all the time. Kobe has repeatedly stated that his main goal is winning titles. If so, then he can improve the chances of that happening by taking less money.
That does not mean it's wrong if he decides not to take a pay cut. And it doesn't mean he is to blame if the team doesn't win.
But it's NOT ridiculous to suggest that Kobe do something that is in line with his own publicly stated goals.
Posted by: exhelodrvr | June 30, 2009 at 03:15 PM
===========
Ex
You on a roll. Excellant post.
Posted by: JustaLakerFan | June 30, 2009 at 03:36 PM
Marquis Daniels will be un upgrade over Sasha, Walton or Farmar. He can play three positions ala Harper/Shaw and is a better defender.
Posted by: Staples 24 | June 30, 2009 at 03:36 PM
I'll stop sounding bitter about how overpaid professional athletes are...it really is just a reflection of our society, and how desperate the general public is to see tall males put balls into baskets and the enormous amounts of money they are willing to pay to witness this in person...everyone has a vice right? the amount is ridiculous when you compare it to the average real-life expenses of a person, and what it actually is...entertainment, desperation of escaping real life and becoming attached to a game for a short term boost...oh well I don't blame these tall dudes milking the system, in the end, its the idiotic public that are willing to pay the huge prices that result in their contracts...supply and demand 101 with a nice dose of social pyschology,,, go lakers...
Posted by: lamamba | June 30, 2009 at 03:45 PM
rumor:
Check previous threads going back to earlier in the season when I have stated multiple times that I thought Tinsley would be a better fit for the Lakers..This, even though he has been out the game for a year...He is a play maker and can get to the basket without hesitation.
I would do that trade in a NY minute...But that's just me..
Posted by: lakersrydeordie | June 30, 2009 at 03:46 PM
"Kobe will not opt out this summer (which helps the Lakers financial situation - short term, of course)."
Actually, Kobe opting out this summer would help the Lakers in the short-term, as his cap figure for the next year or two would actually be lower than it is now since NBA contracts are generally back-loaded.
Posted by: Matt R. | June 30, 2009 at 03:51 PM
justanothermambafan,
"This waiting and wondering is killing me."
You're not alone with that feeling, brother.
What do we play for? RINGS!!!!!
Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.
GO LAKERS!!!!
Posted by: Jon K. | June 30, 2009 at 03:51 PM
"Sources" claiming Kobe won't opt out..
http://tinyurl.com/lohe7r
Posted by: Anna in Bondi | June 30, 2009 at 03:57 PM
T.A.'s agent, David Lee, actually said "It's a question of how committed the Lakers are to competing again."
Wow. The last I knew, Lee ran his own boutique shop and had two just clients, Andrew and Trevor. He should probably calm down a little and remember his fiduciary responsbility. Questioning the commitment of your most viable meal ticket is not smart agenting. Seriously.
Posted by: dave m | June 30, 2009 at 04:02 PM
rumor
interesting and how stereotypical
sending 3 white lakers to the white team of Larry
and taking 2 black players for the lakers
so why would larry B. wanting to enhance Kobe's legacy against his?!!!!!
bad rumor (even if i like the idea)
Posted by: ouchhhhhhhhh | June 30, 2009 at 04:28 PM
lakersrydeordie,
A Tinsley/Daniels for Walton, Farmar, Ammo deal would be interesting. I do like Tinsley's ability to drive. I distrust his horrible personality traits. Daniels seems a little like trouble too, but he is far better at not being injured and he is a solid defender that can score in bunches if you leave him alone.
Maybe a change of scenery helps them out? You only get so many chances to make good money in this league. Maybe that helps them perform near their peaks.
Maybe it's all a really speculative rumor so it doesn't matter anyway...
If we trade Luke and Ammo do we get Lakertom's dream line-up? Kobe at point?
Posted by: Benjamin | June 30, 2009 at 04:36 PM
Chris,
You are absolutely correct.
Let's say that you:
-are the hardest worker at your company
-voluntarily work overtime all year round
-you make alot in salary, but you provide a much bigger return on investment for your company
-you are the company's (as well as the industry's) biggest cash cow
-you train your fellow co-workers to be better workers
-no matter how sick you are, you never take a day off
-you are injured during work, but you suck it up and work through it
-every other company in the industry would drool over your services and the possibility of you becoming their cash cow
-the company you work has the highest profit in the entire industry, thanks in part to you
Now if you take into account that the company has not even ASKED you to take a paycut, wouldn't it be comically absurd if people started criticizing you and called you selfish for not VOLUNTARILY taking a paycut??? There are plenty of co-workers who are overpaid and not producing, yet you of all people, are being singled out as somehow being selfish for not doing something that is in the job description for human resources and ownership. Haven't you done enough for the company? Shouldn't you be the LAST person who's dedication is questioned??
Yet to guys like BK and Exhel, Kobe's desire to win is contingent on him voluntarily taking a paycut. Just ridiculous.
Posted by: LAKER TRUTH | June 30, 2009 at 04:45 PM
lakersrydeordie,
A Tinsley/Daniels for Walton, Farmar, Ammo deal would be interesting. I do like Tinsley's ability to drive. I distrust his horrible personality traits. Daniels seems a little like trouble too, but he is far better at not being injured and he is a solid defender that can score in bunches if you leave him alone.
Maybe a change of scenery helps them out? You only get so many chances to make good money in this league. Maybe that helps them perform near their peaks.
Maybe it's all a really speculative rumor so it doesn't matter anyway...
If we trade Luke and Ammo do we get Lakertom's dream line-up? Kobe at point?
Posted by: Benjamin | June 30, 2009 at 04:36 PM
==============
At this time that is what the threads are for. Summer speculation.
I would not mind this trade too much depending what more we can get for AMMO's expiring contract elsewhere.
However we gain a roster spot by trading 2 and taking 1.
Posted by: JustaLakerFan | June 30, 2009 at 04:52 PM
Now if you take into account that the company has not even ASKED you to take a paycut, wouldn't it be comically absurd if people started criticizing you and called you selfish for not VOLUNTARILY taking a paycut??? There are plenty of co-workers who are overpaid and not producing, yet you of all people, are being singled out as somehow being selfish for not doing something that is in the job description for human resources and ownership. Haven't you done enough for the company? Shouldn't you be the LAST person who's dedication is questioned??
Yet to guys like BK and Exhel, Kobe's desire to win is contingent on him voluntarily taking a paycut. Just ridiculous.
Posted by: LAKER TRUTH | June 30, 2009 at 04:45 PM
==============
That only addresses Kobe's side. Remember J. Buss did all he could plus more (Colorado) to support Kobe. J. Buss would still pay Luxuary tax so a little help.
Posted by: JustaLakerFan | June 30, 2009 at 05:09 PM
The luxury tax money goes into a big kitty and is whacked up among all the teams in the association.
Everyone seems to leave that out of the equation when talking tax issues.
Just sayin . . .
Posted by: htj | June 30, 2009 at 05:40 PM
>>>Amare is posting about the Lakers again...
>>>smoke? or just messing around?
Wishful thinking on his part. Unlike BUTLER, Amare knows where
rings get earned.
Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | June 30, 2009 at 06:28 PM
Thanks, Justa.
Posted by: exhelodrvr | June 30, 2009 at 06:31 PM
>>>1. Lamar – Currently making $11M. Will re-sign 3-year deal for $8M, $9M, and $10M.
>>>2. Trevor – Currently making $3M. Will re-sign 3-year deal for $6M, $7M, and $8M.
I think Laker Tom has it spot on. Those are exactly the sort of
salaries I was thinking of.
Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | June 30, 2009 at 06:38 PM
Staples24
>>>If I am the Spurs or Cavs it will be worth paying Odom 14
>>>mil a year. Lakers can not match it. Odom will sign for sure
I see, and how are you magically making something like 24 million
vanish off your cap (if you're the Cavs) or 27 million (if you're the Spurs)?
Both teams are way way over the salary cap and can offer
MLE level money (about 5.5 million) at the MOST.
Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | June 30, 2009 at 06:42 PM
JLF,
>>>Sorry to disagree but lest you forget, Rony was projected
>>>to get MLE money but got a 17 million dollar contract.
>>>Lakers said too rich for us, and let him go.
Say what?
I don't think anyone ever predicted Ronny to be anywhere near
MLE level money. Ronny was a bench player who folded like
origami in the finals. And the contract he got was well below
MLE level - a little over 16 million for four years.
Trevor was solid in the finals and that will be remembered,
by the Lakers and other teams. And he will get much more than
Ronny got.
Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | June 30, 2009 at 06:51 PM
Given TA's agent, joker Lee, quick signing of Artest was right move. Or else he would have been playing beside Lebron James & Shaq for championship. Quick signing of LO is important to avoid Blazers,Spurs, or Cavs going after him. LO is the only option Lakers have for backup at 4,3 & 2 besides being one of their best rebounders & in-bound pass defender. He is also a great passer. Get rid of Morrison to create some more cap space for LO!! Bynum better find someone besides toxic Lee as his agent.
Posted by: Ross | July 07, 2009 at 04:01 PM