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This week's 710 ESPN.com Lakers PodKast

It's your weekend ear candy!

The Draft has come and gone, the NBA's vanquished (everyone else) have started making moves to try and corrall the victors (your purple and gold), and it's almost time to kick off what guarantees to be a busy free agent season in El Segundo. Who better to kick around these topics and more, including life behind the purple and gold velvet rope, than with Lakers.com's Mike Trudell?  Nobody, that's who. All that, and a little Kobe talk to dovetail with yesterday's post.  Synergy.  (If you'd just as soon avoid that, skip the last 10-15 minutes or so.) 

Enjoy!

BK

 
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Back to the draft off topic. I think if we can convince the 59th pick from Texas A&M to play overseas to develop a bit, so we can use as insurance if Josh or DJ get traded.

If we don't re-sign Odom, I'd trade Bynum for David West and Tyson Chandler.

Whoh... I was away from the computer yesterday and just now caught up with the last (and truly epic) thread. Certainly some reasoned opinions on both sides of the debate. Personally, my favorite comments were p ang's "dead horse" and Faith's ever succinct "zombie" reply.

While the money conundrum has so many in its thrall, I can't for the life of me understand why bloggers aren't discussing the obvious solution to all woes: track down Slava, inject large quantities of Jon K's dit da jow into those chronically herniated discs and bring the Ukraine's favorite son back into the fold. Lamar would be more than happy to share some snickers bars, I'm sure.

I've got the PERFECT SOLUTION for the Kobe opt-out situation.

IF Kobe is serious about wanting to stay here and build a long term championship team and IF Dr Buss is serious about rewarding him for it but not risking his own bankbook, how about this:
Kobe opts out and signs for a reduced amount and Dr Buss gives him a small piece of the team, that is a small percentage of Laker profits, or "points" as they say in show biz.

That way if the Lakers DO win a couple more rings and show a huge profit, Kobe will make even MORE than he would with a max deal. And if that doesn't come to pass, he makes less and Dr Buss doesn't lose as much. A true win-win situation, and not unprecedented (see: Magic, or Michael with the Wizards)

Its done all the time in the movie biz - a star that usually makes 10-15 mil per movie will take half that and a piece of the back end profits. In music, producers will often cut or completely give up their upfront fees for a percentage of the album's revenues. Why not the same for the star of the hoops team that plays in Hollywood? Then we can use the cash for Trevor, Lamar, Shannon and whoever else and everybody wins - including the fans!

How about it???

"I've got the PERFECT SOLUTION for the Kobe opt-out situation."

Jay Jay you miss the point,

Again the point is that it SOUNDS good in theory. If Kobe opts out and signs for less it IS good for the team and will give him a positive image. More likely the Lakers will re-sign LO and TA and SB if Kobe Bryant does opt out and take less.

That is just the theory though. Realistically Kobe will probably not take the gamble. Remember he has still the power to opt out next off-season and if things go sour he can have the power to do so.. At least he will be in a position to do so rather than be stuck in another contract over which he has no power of. Besides as long as he doesn't opt out and go for the max there is NO pressure for Buss to keep paying. The Lakers made TONS of money off of the draft and playoff ticket prices so it not like it is NECESSARY for Kobe Bryant TO opt out.

The way Kobe sounds makes it less likely for him to opt out.

There a nice way to explain why Kobe isn't going to opt out while not calling you a hater of Kobe Jay Jay.

this opt out discussion is like me seriously discussing who needs to apologize and suck up to the other in a fight that you and your wife never had.

has the team indicated to Kobe that they need his help to pay fairly to keep the team together? ever? really? if not, then the money discussion is pointless and is the product of confused minds.

if the team had made the request(publicly), this discussion would still be the worst sort of tongue clucking gossip, but at least some of the points made and arguements put forth might have some merit....

dave m,

That was a funny post by p ang and Faith.

The horse is FAR from dead, it's just now being led to the slaughter house, as the situation is not solved at this time.

ChicNStu,
Horse burgers are ready!! Who wants cheese?

KB - did you even read my post????

Dude read before you comment.

ex,

>>> Kobe certainly doesn't "owe" the Lakers a smaller contract,
>>> just like the Lakers don't "owe" Kobe a max deal.

>>> But it is reasonable for both of them to give a little when
>>> comes to trying for additional titles.

Right on, ex. Every time I read one of your dead-on comments, I shake my head in wonder at your politics. One thing is for sure, everybody has an opinion when it comes to OPM, other people’s money. This is like a rerun of Drew’s extension. Money still rules the mind of the blog as much as it rules the actions of the players. Too funny.

Tom

Good Afternoon Charles...Good Afternoon Everyone....

that horse is so dead carion birds are checking into Jenny Craig faster than the boredom of the debate is settling in for a long summer's nap in my pungent bowells, seemingly... I am personally hoping for a quick and efficiently satisfying BM to purge myself (and this noble blog) of this topic, as it were...

as I said in the last thread (apparently to no avail) I would much rather see a discussion on the free agent market, especially with an emphasis in regard to the senaerio (s)that the Lakers prove unable to re-sign any or all of their free agents...

what could Mitch's back up plans possibly be and what would everyone like to see happen if we can't sign Lamar, Ariza and Brown (and again, I think they will be able to sign all three somehow)...

AS ALWAYS, AS EVER, YET ANOTHER GREAT DAY (AND CHAMPIONSHIP SEASON) TO BE A LAKER FAN !!!

GO LAKERS !!!

{Lakers Secret Agent Jon K. Reporting From Deep Behind Enemy Lines In The Lakers Cave Obscured By A Pile Of Moss Covered Rotting Trees Next To An Abandonded, Rusted Old Steel Mill}

{Mission: SAVE THE LAKERS DYNASTY}

{Operation: PERFECT SOLUTION}

Okay, we've got the workings of a Dynasty in the making here (also known as "a period of Universal harmony").

I've heard some pretty-darned crazy talk coming from some people who are not BK, so I've created "Operation: PERFECT SOLUTION" to resolve the issue.

Here it is:

1. Dr. Buss is going to have to become comfortable making less liquid profit each year and instead trust that a Dynastic period will add increased value to the franchise as a whole.

2. Kobe Bryant is going to have to take a little less money and accept that his value to the team will decrease as he gets older instead of increasing.

3. Lamar Odom is going to have to take a little less money and a little shorter a contract than he might otherwise ideally want.

4. Trevor Ariza is going to have to take a little less money, but get a bit longer contract for greater security.

5. Shannon Brown is going to have to take a little less money and a mid-term contract, but it will be a lot better than what he was expecting when he was riding the bench at Charlotte.

6. Sun Yue has to go. His tiny contract is dead weight, especially with the luxury tax and an extra half million a year could make the difference with one of our three staying or not.

7. Dr. Buss (relative to Kobe's degree of sacrifice) is going to have to make a personal commitment with Kobe (as well as agree other Laker shareholders to agree to compromise with this--sharing the burden) to make Kobe a permenant member of the Lakers, even after his playing career ends, in a similar vein as Magic Johnson is a permenant member (due to his co-ownership) of the Lakers franchise. Essentially, Dr. Buss will be "paying" Kobe in deferred stock not for playing, but for compromise, faith, and a committment to supporting a Dynastic franchise.

Everyone compromises.

Everyone is respected.

Everyone wins.

Perfect Solution and, quite frankly, the only solution that truly works.

What do we play for? RINGS!!!!

Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.

GO LAKERS!!!!

exhelodrvr,

I want cheese! Do you have monterey jack? Or pepper jack? If not, I'll just take good old fashioned american cheese, please.

What do we play for? RINGS!!!!

Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.

GO LAKERS!!!!

Jay Jay,

Great suggestion. At the end of the day, if ownership is financially unable to bring everyone back, that would be a win-win for everyone, including the fans.

LTLF,

>>> Would you ask Kobe to gamble on losing money instead of
>>> making it next season?

No, that would be like offering him an incentive laden contract rather than the max. Oh, wait, that only applied to Andrew Bynum. LOL. JK you, LTLF. Although I am amazed at the firestorm this subject has raised. As we learned back then discussing and debating Drew’s extension, when you throw OPM (other people’s money) into the ring, those girlish cat fights suddenly turn into full-fledged dog fights.

I’m as big a Kobe homer as anybody here (yes, there is an anti-Kobe conspiracy) but bloggers have to recognize and realize that even though he is a fan, AK is not a homer. Although he is a fan, he does not have all of those pro-Lakers prejudices and biases that you and I share – or his incredible professional control keeps them in check or hidden. So don’t expect him to jump off his chair screaming for a flagrant every time some other team’s player clocks Kobe with another cheap, hard foul. That’s just not who AK is. Though a fan, he reacts with his mind and intellect rather than his heart and soul.

And BK – as if setting the stage for a good buy versus bad guy dialogue – frankly admits that he is NOT even a Lakers fan, although I don’t know how anyone could NOT become a Lakers fan after knowing the players and following the team for all of these years. I for one will never understand how somebody can be a fan of the game and not of a team. That kind of wiring is beyond my comprehension. It’s an evolution of society and sports makes me shake my head in regret for the expansive technology, video games, fantasy leagues, and multi-faceted lifestyle that has diluted everything, including fandom.

We used to see the world in black and white only, making it easier to tell who were the good guys or bad guys. Then came Technicolor with all of its grades and variations and suddenly everything became murkier, all motives became suspect, and all results and outcomes became spinnable. That’s just the reality of the brave new world we live in where the media macroscope probably makes superstar athletes wish once in a while they could just escape back to the simpler lives of their Most Valuable Puppets.

Tom

more thoughts, seemingly....

in my feeble little mind, I am wondering what will Mitch turn over for Morrison's expiring contract for and when...

to me the trading of Morrison and his attractive expiring contract is ineviitable this season, the question remaining when and what for...

talk about some more money the team would like to free up, especially for a player who really didn't contribute to the run (other than a practice player or so)...

can the Lakers trade him for a distant future pick ala Anthony Peeler? is this a viable leagal option LTLF (the blog's source of accurate information on such subjects, as well as many others, as it were) ?

I do think Mitch will hold onto Morrison as long as is advantageous....first he needs to see if he can indeed re-sign our FA's without moving Morrison and if that is not successful, Mitch then has Morrison as the foundation of a trade that may bring us a replacement for which ever FA we may lose etc.

LTLF, can Morrison be combined with any of our other players in a trade or can he only be traded by himself etc. ? can he be used in a sign and trade senerio for another team's FA?

if we do lose our FA's, it seems Morrison (and his contract) may be key in yielding us a worthy replacement or two or so...

Mitch has some options and assets that I have faith he will use effectively...

GO LAKERS !!!

my 2 cents

Kobe is the MAN and deserves every single penny of a MAX contract.

and it is unfair to say that if he doesn't take less then he doesn't want to win. thats bs

cuz u should make the same argument to both trevor and odom if they dont take less

and also make the same argument to Jerry Buss, oh if Jerry doesn't spend the money to bring back trevor or odom or some other good player then Jerry doesn't want to win

or make this argument, Bynum doesn't want to win b/c he took more money than he should have, or that Sasha and Luke took more money than they should have, so they dont want to win

i mean everyone has to look out for themselves right? no one else will look out for you

but i will say this, if kobe does give up some money (even though he doesn't have to and should not feel that he should) but if he does, then he needs to make sure that part of the deal for taking less money is that that money goes toward signing good players, and doesn't just go to lining Jerry's pockets. if the money just goes to Jerry's pockets then it doesn't help the Lakers win does it?

so thats my 2 cents. Kobe, u are the man and Lakers, lets repeat in 2010!!

chicNstu and ex - i'm already dealing with enough horses, i'll take a turkey burger, swiss, mustard 'n pickles... add chips and a bottomless pepsi.

floyd - i'm with you on all counts. much prefer option A of course but as a backstop, here's some suspects: Sheed, Marion, Turk if he'd take less than what he's looking for, Bird if he wants an actual shot at a ring, Harrington, Testes???? So, want a dog or a burger?

first annual beat a dead horse b-b-q.

floyd - morrison's expiring contract can be traded solo or packaged. No need for a sign and trade since we already have him for the season (unless you mean trading his expiring K for somebody else who's a sign and trade).

Dave M,

yeah I meant trading Morrison for some other team's FA in a sign and trade deal

GO LAKERS !!!

What is this talk about Orlando giving offers for Rasheed Wallace?? Almost all of them are higher-than-average volume shooters. Where are they going to generate so many possessions, or to provide Howard as many touches as he demands.

Instead of making the team better, the wins have got into their heads, so they have got pig-headed and mucking the team... stuffing the team with aged talent and screwing up chemistry as well....

When you go to the Finals or win the Championship, you tend to keep your core/nucleus intact. Hedo/Howard/Lewis were the ones who made it happen, but they have already dropped Hedo, and planning to demoted Rashard by bringing in Rasheed??

These are typical case of teams which win once a blue-moon.... Orlando came to the Finals for the 1st time in 10+ years, so they're thinking you can win just by adding more players!! Hedo was an asset to them, who can handle the ball and can make his own shot. Hell, I loved the way he could draw fouls, and they dropped him for VC?? Bad move..... dropping your nucleus and bringing in a volume scorer (VC)

Wait and see, this time Magic won't even make the Eastern Conf Finals!!

Floyd,

>>> …to me the trading of Morrison and his attractive expiring contract is
>>> inevitable this season, the question remaining when and what for...

The reason teams ultimately desire expiring contracts is to reduce payroll. The reason the Lakers are lucky to have Ammo’s contract is not that they can use it to trade for a better player but that they can use it to cut payroll by letting it expire. That’s why I think the Lakers will NOT trade Ammo but just let his contract expire. That will save the team enough money to pay for all but the first year of Trevor’s contract. That is how you use Ammo to lock Trevor up for several years at no more cost to the team.

The reality the Lakers have to face in order to be able to afford to keep the current team together – or at least the Core 5 players, who are Kobe, Pau, Drew, Lamar, and Trevor – is that they need to make the small smart moves that will add up to substantial savings. That means allowing Morrison’s $5M contract to expire to save $10M in salary and tax. Trading Ammo only means that you have to pay some other player the money. And it means we may start to see our role players leave via free agency versus trade.

If you look at the Lakers salaries in Hoopshype, you will notice a trend over the next few years, which I submit is not coincidence but smart planning by the Lakers front office. Next year, we have Ammo’s $5M expiring contract as well as Fish’s $5M and Farmar’s $2M expiring contracts. The year after we Sasha’s $5M expiring contract. 2 years later we have Luke’s $6M expiring contract. This will give the Lakers an ongoing source of valuable dollars each year to not only keep the team together but also growing.

Mitch Kupchak can finish this summer as an acknowledged master of running an NBA franchise if he can lock up the team’s Core 5 of Kobe, Pau, Drew, Lamar, and Trevor. Ironically, he has one other weapon to help the Lakers payroll dilemma, which is to do what teams do when they want to cut salary: trade viable players for stiffs on other teams with expiring contracts. If push comes to shove, we could trade Farmar, Sasha, or Luke for a terrible player with an expiring contract that we could let run out.

Tom

I'm still basking in the sun enjoying this championship. Whatever will happen...will happen shortly. Seven years was long, but our seven years was too long.

Colorado loves the Lakers!

Kobefan in Cupertino.

>>> So AK/BK...I would disagree with you on who's the money-elephant in the room.
>>> Its NOT Kobe, its Bynum who is not giving 16 million worth through his game!!

What a bunch of malarkey! You are probably one of those fantasy league nuts who is always rooting for some player on the other team every time the Lakers go on defense. Are you the same guy who wanted to trade Drew for Chandler and West earlier today? Drew’s new contract does not start until next year. Let’s see how he plays before you criticize him for not earning his keep. Playing injured, he set the tone in the Finals. Next year, he will become the Lakers best defensive player and second leading scorer.

You say we overpaid for Bynum because if we waited a year nobody would have paid him $15M per year because he didn’t perform well enough and the economy sucks. By your reckoning, Andrew would be eligible to be a free agent on July 1st and the Lakers would not even have the right to negotiate with him until then. And of course, he would NOT harbor any ill will towards the Lakers for not giving him the extension. Bottom line, were Andrew Bynum a free agent on July 1, there would still be several teams stepping up to line with big money and the Lakers would likely have lost a franchise player.

Tom

"You say we overpaid for Bynum because if we waited a year nobody would have paid him $15M per year because he didn’t perform well enough and the economy sucks. By your reckoning, Andrew would be eligible to be a free agent on July 1st and the Lakers would not even have the right to negotiate with him until then. And of course, he would NOT harbor any ill will towards the Lakers for not giving him the extension. Bottom line, were Andrew Bynum a free agent on July 1, there would still be several teams stepping up to line with big money and the Lakers would likely have lost a franchise player"

This was not pointed at me rather Kobe fan in Cupertino but I would like to respond as well.

Kobe fan is right. We DID overpay Bynum. $15 million actually 14 but again Pau Gasol type money WITHOUT Pau Gasol type results=overpaid.

"By your reckoning, Andrew would be eligible to be a free agent on July 1st and the Lakers would not even have the right to negotiate with him until then."

And neither would any other team. And Bynum would be a "restricted" free agent meaning that the Lakers would have the right to match up salaries if any other team dared to bid on him ala Josh Smith.

And who is really have the money to offer him much? Detroit? They are going for Boozer or for Bosh. Memphis? Nope.

"And of course, he would NOT harbor any ill will towards the Lakers for not giving him the extension."

The way Bynum played he would be a Mark Jackson type idiot to even think about getting a contract extension of Pau Gasol's caliber.

"Bottom line, were Andrew Bynum a free agent on July 1, there would still be several teams stepping up to line with big money and the Lakers would likely have lost a franchise player."

Only Detroit and Memphis has the only space to really sign away Bynum. Did I also mention restricted free agency?

Point: Bynum at $14 million is overpaid. Next post comes to debunk the:

"Playing injured, he set the tone in the Finals. Next year, he will become the Lakers best defensive player and second leading scorer."

LakerTom,

No, I am NOT the one who wanted to trade Drew for West + Chandler.... I am 200% against it : Chandler is as much as injury prone he is, and we dont need David West as well - we have enough scorers in Kobe and Pau....

Also, when does this "new contract does not start until next year" mean...?? It means it starts with the 2009-2010 season right?? I am too telling the same, we have NOT overpaid Bynum, we are going to overpay Bynum.

Ok, tell me something - Even if he made 15/15/5 in the playoffs, do U tell me that ANY team would give Bynum 15 mil per year, given the elite 2010 summer just a season away?? NO WAY!!

He is going to be the future of the franchise?? IMO, He has to go a long way for that and I see chances for that very little.

Also, what I meant was when everyone is telling Kobe should take a significant paycut, when Drew is going to be overpaid this year!

Jon K.
Still trying to dump Sun Yue...remember the team still needs to fill out the roster, and that will involve paying them the pennys he was getting, plus the time invested in having him learn the system and his team. Have a nice SUNny day!!!!

Hey,we're all entitled to our own opinions...I may be wrong, he may not be NBA material, can you say, you may be wrong? I don't think so.

Floyd,

The only way we cash in or save money with Morrison's contract is to let it expire. This year we have Morrison's 5 million, next year Sasha's. That's 10 million to put toward the team.

As for trading draft picks--they have 0 value (from some CBA website):

"71. How are draft picks handled in trades?
Draft picks (both first and second round) count $0 for salary matching purposes. This is true both before and after the draft, until the player signs a contract. This can make it very difficult to construct a trade that is equitable in both trade value and basketball talent. For example, Vancouver selected Steve Francis with the #2 pick in the 1999 draft, and traded his draft rights to Houston. When the trade was finally engineered, it included three teams (Orlando was also involved), 11 players (including Francis) and two future draft picks.

Once the draft pick signs a contract, his actual salary becomes his trade value."

Yeah, so trading Morrison only works if we want to be the one taking on a longer contract, not saving money. We want that, we let him walk at years end, which I bet will happen. There is no way we re-sign Morrison. That would defeat the purpose of the Vlad trade.

But who knows.

Wes

Kobefan in Cupertino,

Excellent post about the Magic. Better than your Bynum post for sure. JK.

>>> What is this talk about Orlando giving offers for Rasheed Wallace?

Rasheed does make some sense in that he can back up Howard and pull defenders out of the paint if he plays power forward. But I do agree with you about the character and makeup of the team. Too much fantasy league mixing and maxing.

>>> Hedo was an asset to them, who can handle the ball and can make his own
>>> shot. Hell, I loved the way he could draw fouls, and they dropped him for VC

Again, I agree with you 100%. I was never a Hedo fan before this year but I have to admit he really impressed me with his play. He is undoubtedly one of the best pure shooters in the league who can also put it on the floor and draw that cheap contact foul by veering into his defender on the way to the hole. I take him over a loser like VC.

Tom

i just got to the part of the podcast where they discuss the MVPuppets. they asked if Shaq is a Nike guy. he is not. he signed a five year deal (i believe) with a co. in China. and that was 3 years ago (i believe).

Floyd posed an interesting question, what should Mitch do if Lamar and/or Trevor deals fall through. well, first, the easiest is Shannon Brown. probably if he walks, Lakers do nothing.

if trevor leaves, of course Lakers needs a new SF, cuz all we have left is Walton and Ammo. maybe look into signing Turkoglu or Artest comes to mind. although i wouldn't want Artest, as he's too combustable, and shoots too damn much. Turkoglu though, has that kinda of toughness that many of the Lakers lack.

if Lamar leaves, definitely Birdman could fill a huge void, especially defensively and rebounding-wise. or Lakers should try to get Lee from the Knicks, who i always liked. ultimately, Mitch would need to find someone that's talented, has a strong work ethic, and won't mind coming off the bench. so preferably no stars.

here's the list of Free Agents:
http://tinyurl.com/pv2lgp

if you want another PG:
Lindsey Hunter is a free agent. i always liked him.

he's a SG, but might be able to play SF:
Wally Szczerbiak. good 3 point%
Von Wafer. former Laker. 9.7 ppg last season. 39% from 3.
Kyle Korver. good 3%

Devean George, i'd consider bringing back. his Mavs stats weren't impressive, but his best years were clearly with the Lakers. maybe he just needs the triangle offense again.

Grant Hill: maybe he'll take less to win a ring.

Michael Finley: would be a good fit, but lucky getting him to leave spurs.

PF:
Drew Gooden. decent numbers.

but most of those guys are over the hill. not one of those guys i'd take over Lamar and Trevor.

i listed and counted up (from this and the least thread) who wants kobe to opt out and take less (meaning sacrifice just like everyone else), and who wants kobe to look for max or not opt out at all. 20 in favor of kobe taking less, 12 in favor of the latter. and about 3 -5 that abstained or were neutral or scoffed at the whole debate. i did not include AK or BK.

Kobefan in Cupertino (and blitz, who cannot miss a chance to dump on Drew),

Fair enough. We’ll have to see how Drew plays next year to determine whether he will be overpaid or not. Time will also answer if he will be the Next Great Lakers center.

Had Drew not been given an extension, the Lakers would have tendered a qualifying offer to make him a restricted free agent. Because there are only a few teams under the cap, Drew would probably have accepted the offer so that he could play out the year and to be an unrestricted free agent, which would have put the Lakers at risk of losing him.

I love how you two take an unexpected injury that was not related to his earlier injury and then use his partial performance during the regular season and injury hindered effort in the playoffs to proclaim he is not going to be worth his salary next year. Then you claim that because of his injured performance, which you both predicted which was why you did not give him an extension, he will not earn anywhere near the money he got.

I am guessing Kobefan is just sounding off to defend his man Kobe, which I understand. Bur blitz, you disappoint me again. You just can’t resist a chance to attack Drew or Jordan or Sasha or whatever Laker your godly powers of observation has identified as the next target for your never satisfied lust to dump on the current generation of Lakers and NBA players who can never life up to the accomplishments of favorite old timers.

Go play with your Duncan and MJ dolls and let the rest of us enjoy this championship.

Tom

oh yeah, dave m, thanks for reminding me. p ang and faiths comments where pretty much the highlight there.

I have one question for somebody- If we keep LO or TA, but not both, will we still be over the cap? And if we're still over the cap, we can't offer anybody more than the MLE, right? Or am i confused. It seeds we would have a hard time signing anybody good for the MLE.

Oh well. I am generally enjoying this topic, if not the posts of a bunch of infantile name callers, poor spellers, and mouth breathers.

you know who your are. nah, I kid. It's still all about the love.

I think

I think the talk about Bynum's contract comes with the luxury of hindsight (his injury, his play upon returning, etc.). At the time the contract was being negotiated, there was much handwringing about the numbers but there was also the very pressing reality that he was regaining his previous form and that there was a window on getting an extension done. Yes, he gets a hefty raise and yes, it impacts our ability to field the team we want. However, the choice to sign him to the extension wasn't a bad one at the time. Injuries are just a part of the game.

The draft sales and the lack of trade or signing buzz in our camp probably speaks to an internal confidence, that Odom, Ariza and Brown will come back, and that we'll chip away at the hefty budget. My initial thoughts were that Morrison's expiring K would be dealt, but I think that Tom and others have more forward thinking - see how he plays this year, let it expire if he doesn't pan out and save the money and combined tax.

thanks for the FA list, leonard. I was just going over it and thinking 'wow, there's gonna be a long time at the unemployment office in July" a lot of dead wood with unrestricted contracts.

not too many hidden gems. I do wonder if we could get matt barnes for chump change, but i'm not going to lose sleep over it.

humananomaly,

All I have to say is, "PROVE ME WRONG, SUN YUE! PROVE ME WRONG!"

What do we play for? RINGS!!!!

Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.

GO LAKERS!!!

Is the horse dead yet?

Next time lets get a burro pinata and beat the candy out of it.

leonard....

with Cleveland Crabaliers picking up the Big Exoskeleton they will need all the outside shooters they can get/retain, so Wally's chances of staying went up, plus he's $13 million coming off the books next summer, keep up....

Bynum for Chandler and West?

No. Shame on you.

How about Bynum for Rubio, David lee, mismash to make saleries match and a 2011 protected 1st rounder?

We need to get the Spanish Beatle.

Wes

Wait a minute. I literally had to stop the spoon full of yellow curry (mussaman) Thai food in mid stride, with mouth wide open and saliva dripping like some slobbering mutt to rush back to my laptop because I realized Rubio hadn't been traded to the Nicks yet. But when it does happen...the Bynum trade is on!

Wes

"Had Drew not been given an extension, the Lakers would have tendered a qualifying offer to make him a restricted free agent."

Again if Bynum couldn't accept the extension then they offered the qualifying offer it wouldn't have made him a restricted free agent rather an unrestricted free agent the next season.

"Drew would probably have accepted the offer so that he could play out the year and to be an unrestricted free agent, which would have put the Lakers at risk of losing him."

That would be 2010 the infamous free agent bonzana. Teams would be more inclined to sign Lebron, Wade, Bosh, and Stoudemire over Bynum. Lakers has all the leverage and interest in re-signing Bynum. Sadly Laker Tom you never could quite accept that.

"I love how you two take an unexpected injury that was not related to his earlier injury and then use his partial performance during the regular season and injury hindered effort in the playoffs to proclaim he is not going to be worth his salary next year. "

See the next post when I debunked that argument of "injury". And again: Gasol type money WITHOUT Gasol type results. Heck Kobe was nowhere near paid that much when he was Shaq's sidekick during the three-peat and not only did much better but also LED the team when Shaq was injured. 9 40 point games in Jan alone.

Actually I prefer to play with my Magic and Kareem and Kobe dolls over Bynum's.

"Playing injured, he set the tone in the Finals. Next year, he will become the Lakers best defensive player and second leading scorer."

PAU GASOL vs MR BIG MOUTH

Gasol:
Utah: 18.4ppg, 9rpg, 58.6%
Houston: 18.6ppg, 12rpg, 53%
Denver: 17.5ppg, 12.3rpg, 63.3%
Orlando: 18.6ppg, 9.2rpg, 60.0%

Playoff stat totals: 18.3ppg, 10.8rpg, 58.0% 71.4 FT%

Bynum
Utah: 5ppg, 3rpg, 39%
Houston (With Yao Games 1-3): 4.7ppg, 3rpg, 50%.
Houston (Without Yao Games 4-7): 4.0ppg, 5.3rpg, 68.8%
Denver: 7.8ppg, 3.3rpg, 47.5%
Orlando: 6.0ppg, 4.2rpg, 36%

Playoff stat totals: 6.3ppg, 3.7rpg, 45.7%. 65.1 FT%.

Best defensive player? Last time I recall that job belong to Kobe or Ariza (assuming he is re-signed). Bynum can't even hedge screen and rolls like Gasol and Odom who do a much better at defending it.

"Playing injured, he set the tone in the Finals."

Nope that was Kobe Bryant who set the tone. And it was Pau Gasol who did the job defensively on Dwight Howard AND still scored 60% of his shots against the Defensive Player of the Year Dwight Howard.

(But he was injured man!)

LO against Orlando (playing on an injured back);
13.4ppg, 7.8rpg, 54.2%
Still managed to contribute very well off the bench and with an injured back. So don't bother to continue using that knee excuse. It's like saying the Lakers lost in 2007 Suns because LO had a torn labrum. Simply the Suns were the better team at that time. No excuses.

Moral of this story: Shed the real truth on WHY Bynum is overpaid and could have possibly waited this year to re-sign him and better idea due to performance in the playoffs.

Of course the people who say he deserves the max will no doubt disagree and maybe even be crying on their keyboards responding about it.

(Note: Not hating on Bynum he's still a potential franchise player. Fact of the matter is though is bring perspective and not stoop down to say Bynum's worth $18 million (which was the max at that time) and say $14 million was a discounted price.

Best lineup that WON the title:

Fisher-Bryant-Ariza-Odom-Gasol. Bynum will start no doubt but Odom will eat tons more minutes.

Floyd,

>>>can the Lakers trade him for a distant future pick ala
>>> Anthony Peeler? is this a viable leagal option LTLF

Only if that team has enough cap space to absorb his contract
without sending anyone back. Or if they had a large enough
trade exception. I think Golden State has one. Not sure who
else.

The problem is, you have to find a team that's willing to gamble
5 million dollars on a guy just because he was really good in
college, though he has yet to show it in the NBA. Of course,
the Lakers did just that when they traded for Kwame Brown,
so it's not completely out of the question.

So what team in the league would really like to add a small
forward whose upside is rapidly dwindling? Not sure.

One other possibility would be if Phoenix was interested.
They could trade Pavlovic for him, and Pav's contract is only
partially guaranteed.

>>>I do think Mitch will hold onto Morrison as long as is
>>>advantageous....first he needs to see if he can indeed
>>>re-sign our FA's without moving Morrison and if that is
>>>not successful, Mitch then has Morrison as the
>>>foundation of a trade that may bring us a replacement
>>>for which ever FA we may lose etc.

And that is a shrewd analysis. Morrison's greatest value is
that he is technically an expiring contract - there are two more
years on his contract, but the second year is a qualifying offer,
so the team could just waive him.

Assuming LeBron, Wade, and Bosh don't re-sign with their
own teams this summer, there might be more teams trying to
free up cap space either now or at the trade deadline. To them,
Morrison looks like 5 million coming off the cap in summer of 2010,
so the Lakers might be able to get a better player with a longer
contract. And that's also a reason to keep MBenga, Powell,
and even Sun Yue on the payroll. That would be four expring
contracts that could be combined in 16 different ways to make
a trade value of anywhere from 600K to just under 10 million.

>>>LTLF, can Morrison be combined with any of our other
>>>players in a trade or can he only be traded by himself
>>>etc. ? can he be used in a sign and trade senerio for
>>>another team's FA?

Any combination you please. sign & trade is trickier as the
signed and traded player is base year compensated, but yes,
Morrison could be included in that kind of deal as well.

Another possibility is that the Lakers could inform Morrison
that they don't plan to play him at all this season and ask him
if he'd like a buy out so that he could go sign with another team.
If he'd take 4 million instead of 5, then the Lakers would save
2 million and Morrison could make more money (and more PT)
with even a veteran's minimum contract elsewhere.

Another possibility is that Morrison could play up to the potential
he displayed in college. If that happens, then the Lakers may
be looking for something more in a trade for him. If he suddenly
was outplaying Luke and taking Luke's minutes as the backup
SF and was scroing 10 points a game and averaging 40% on
3-pointers, then his trade value would go through the roof.
Then maybe he's worth a late lottery pick in a trade, or something
like that.

Unfortuntaely, I don't think that's likely to happen. It would be
nice if it did, but if it doesn't, Morrison isn't complete dead weight.
He's the all-purpose trade chip.

"How about Bynum for Rubio, David lee, mismash to make saleries match and a 2011 protected 1st rounder?"

When you have a potential (Note: Potential) franchise player why on earth would you want it on a ? PG, a role player who only put greats stats only because he was in D'Antoni's system and a 1st rounder.

"I have one question for somebody- If we keep LO or TA, but not both, will we still be over the cap? And if we're still over the cap, we can't offer anybody more than the MLE, right? Or am i confused. It seeds we would have a hard time signing anybody good for the MLE."

We are over the cap currently even without Odom and Ariza at $74 million. And the MLE did sign Derek Fisher.

>>>if trevor leaves, of course Lakers needs a new SF, cuz
>>>all we have left is Walton and Ammo. maybe look into
>>>signing Turkoglu or Artest comes to min

I like both of those ideas. I think Turkey Lurkey is expecting to
get MAJOR bank, though. He wants a contract for 10 million
per for 5 years, according to his agent.

Artest is looking to get paid as well. Remember, last summer
he could have opted out and gone to ANY TEAM IN THE LEAGUE
for only a million less than he was making. If he had been willing
to work for MLE money for a season, he could have come to the
Lakers and won a ring. But he chose more money over the best
chance of winning a title. (see how that works).

The only way I could see EITHER Turkoglu or Artest signing
with the Lakers is if they gambled and held out too long and all
the free cash dried up. Once all the teams with deep pockets
have spent it, then the MLE is the most you can make.

So if it came to that situation and those guys had a choice of
taking slightly over the MLE from their own team, or taking the
MLE from the Lakers, they might do it to spite Orlando or Houston
for not offering the big bucks in the first place. It's unlikely, but
at least possible.

Laker Tom and Wes...

It really sticks in my head that the Lakers freed up cap space (and i think it was the summer we got both Shaq and Kobe) by trading Anthony Peeler to the then Vancover Grizzlies for a future 2nd round pick or so...

maybe the rules have changed since then (????)..

so yeah if we can't trade for a pick to leavieate his contract toward cap space I do realize we would have to take on the same money in a trade...and in that I was thinking more of a trade in the case of not having sign one of FA's and needing to improve or if in the case of re-signing everybody, making a trade invovling Morrison (with perhaps a combination of other players) to simply upgrade our existing roster...

again, either way it seems as if trading Morrison is a real possibility as well as, as you both have said, just letting his contract expire at the end of the season to reap the benifits of an expiring contract...

it does seem that he may have some value as trade fodder, in which case the Lakers would gain player wise, but not salary cap wise....

I guess ultimately we agree that he won't be on our roster for more than a season...

GO LAKERS !!!

I was not a big fan of the Bynum contract when they did it, because of his injury history, but it certainly was not a ridiculous move. If he plays an entire season like he played the month before he got hurt, it will look like a bargain. And to blame his contract for the current situation is really silly.

Who's up for a game of H-O-R-S-E?

>>>I think the talk about Bynum's contract comes with the
>>>luxury of hindsight.

As several of us argued last summer, that's not the case.

Bynum's record showed some potential that he could one day
be an all-star caliber player. But it also showed some potential
that he could be injury prone and could spend more time injured
than playing. And as of last summer, his stats had never been
all-star level for more than a few games.

A starting 7 footer with some game does get you a big paycheck,
but not as big as they gave him. I think Bynum's agent won.
He had a big staredown with Mitch and went out of his way
to publicize that he thought Bynum was worth the max, and
Mitch blinked (probably as Jimmy Buss feigned poking him in
the eyes).

As I said last summer, I would have offered Bynum less guaranteed
money with incentives that could bring it up to the big bucks
contract. Several other teams offered contracts like that last
summer and they were accepted.

If Bynum had accepted that contract, then he'd only be making
slightly less this season. He'd have missed the statistical incentives
since he missed much of the season, but he would have gotten the
playoff bonuses. And if he eventually plays up to the level his
agent was hyping, then he would have earned MORE money
than his current contract.

And if Bynum had rejected that contract, then right now he
would be a restricted free agent who showed flashes of brilliance
at times, but who missed half of each of the last two seasons
with injuries. He would get offers, but they wouldn't be as large
as what he's being paid now.

To be fair, there was a possibility that Bynum could have been
insulted by the offer, averaged 20 & 10, made the all-star team,
been finals MVP, and was now forcing his way off of the Lakers
for insulting him with a less than max offer. In bizarro world.

LakerTom,

Why do you sound childish or like holding grudges here.... "Go play with dolls" sounds like it

I and KB Blitz are giving an argument, provide answers, not stuff like "Go and play with dolls" stuff....

Also, Bynum was NOT a total FA, he was a restricted FA, so all Lakers would need to do is just MATCH the pay which any other team is willing to give.

I am asking you this question again: "Even if Bynum made 15/15/5 in the playoffs, do you think ANY team would have given him a 15mil/year contract??

Also, I am NOT defending Kobe, I am telling we should not expect players to take less money to play, be it LO or Kobe.

Floyd,

Using Morrison's expiring contract is a great idea, but remember, it takes 2 to make a deal (sometimes 3).....No one is going to give the Lakers a player of LO or Trevor unless their season is done, and it is for a player who they would lose for nothing...it would be awfullly hard and it will become harder come deadline time to pull a deal. Don't worry about it, Mitch will secure Kobe, LO, TA and SB at reasonable rates. after that he needs to fill out the roster, and that will even hurt, even if Jon K's plan to not pick up the option on Sun Yue goes over. Every player Mitch signs to fill the roster, their salary, think double....Sun may go play in China next year anyways...I think he deserves a look at, when he is healthy Then he can come back, he could be Laker property depending on how it is handled. Then Mitch would be scouring for players,...(thumpa,thumpa,thumpa)....is that the Smushcalade I hear ? Wow, all is saved

LakerTom,

My "Why do you sound childish or like holding grudges here.... "Go play with dolls" sounds like it", is more on a hilarious note, and not intended to offend.

If yes, then do accept my apologies :)

Floyd,

It all comes down to which team wants to avoid luxury taxes more when it comes to trading Morrison. In the Lakers current situation, you have to think they’re just going to let his contract expire because that saves them $10M, which will reduce the Lakers profit but there might be a team out there where $10M is the difference between the franchise surviving or where the owner is not willing to take a $10M loss. Look at what the Suns and Nets and Bucks just did, trading for expiring contracts so they can cut their losses. So maybe somebody makes us an offer we can’t refuse, say a good point guard. Then we will see how deeply into the luxury tax land Jerry is really willing to go because no way is going to allow Trevor, Lamar, or Shannon depart notwithstanding a crazy offer.

There is also no question that the Kobe taking less issue has hit national prominence that milks the polarizing nature of both Kobe Bryant as well as that of other people’s money. Want some hits? Just write about Kobe opting out and taking less. And it’s going to raise its ugly head in every Lakers negotiation going forward. Think Derek Fisher is going to want to re-sign for less than the $5M he currently makes? Or Sasha for $5M the year after? And what about Pau whose $18M contract expires year after next. How much will he be asked to sacrifice? I understand all the angst but in the end all we can do is hope that all of these players understand and do what is needed. In the end, we may lose a key role player here and there but we will keep our core-5 and a good roster behind them. Mitch and Jerry know what is needed and will deliver.

Tom

this whole trade Ammo topic is interesting, and i'd like to weigh in on it. first, i think we should assume Trevor, Lamar and Shannon all get resigned, since Mitch, PJ, heck, everyone agrees that's in the best interest of the Lakers.

if one of them, particularly trevor or lamar signs elsewhere, i think trading a Sasha & Ammo package or Farmar and Ammo package could be realistic. even if we resign everyone, i think there's a general consensus that the Lakers could upgrade at back-up PG and back-up SG. Farmar and Ammo would prob be the most attractive offer of the two, as both are expiring cons. and Farmar still has upside (esp. for an uptempo team).

but honestly, i wouldn't make any trades unless something drastic happens, like a season-ending injury to one of our guys, and we need to fill that hole ASAP. that would be the best time to trade Ammo or Sasha or Farmar. but i still like Farmar, and would be relunctant to trade him. i think Mitch can resign him pretty cheap in 2010, unless he has one hell of a break-out season.

LTLF, yeah, i was thinking that the Lakers couldn't afford either Turk or Ron-Ron. i just kinda threw that out there as a "fantasy" scenario. it would be much more plausible for the Lakers to get someone like Devean George (if they had to replace Ariza).

I miss Mike T.

Now there is a one trick pony who could beat a zombie to death while playing horse with Kwame.

Kobefan in Cupertino,

Blitz and I go back a long way and he has been a Bynum hater and doubter since day 1 so my admittedly childish remarks were aimed solely at him and not at disrespecting you. At any rate, it’s mostly just bored trash talk between a couple of jaded adversaries.

And if Bynum had gone 15/5/5 in the playoffs, he probably would have gotten a $15M offer from some club. The killer in your equation is the 5 blocks. 15/5/3 would have also done the trick. But Bynum would have been a restricted free agent so he likely would not have taken those offers or allowed the Laker to match them because he they were not paying him what he is worth. He would have instead just accepted the Lakers qualifying offer so that he could join LeBron and Wade as unrestricted free agents next summer, when the number of teams under the cap will jump greatly and the Lakers chances of retaining him would diminish considerably.

At least, that’s what I see in my crystal ball. And you know what they say about crystal balls. LOL. Peace.

Tom

ex, I'm game - H, I'm taking a corner shot from the funny shaped crack in the apshalt. Net chain jangles - yes!

Kobefan... "Even if Bynum made 15/15/5 in the playoffs, do you think ANY team would have given him a 15mil/year contract??" Just wondering, is this with him having had the injury? Because, if we start making predictions that marry post-injury knowlege with pre-injury negotioations then aren't we really going down the rabbit hole?

leonardbast,

Wally Sczerbiak or Drugman as a replacement for LO if he walks?? Come on, please tell me you were joking, coz I wont believe you were realistic amd meant it.

Sczerbiak is as good as a bust, a low-minutes player, whom Crabs are unable to trade. Birdman is a back-up center and energy player, not a A-grade player.

LO comes off-the-bench, but still plays starter minutes, Wally and Drugman would be getting only 1/3rd minutes of what LO gets. LO is a scorer and rebounder, and among the Top-4 in our team. Sczebiak or Drugman are in the middle or bottom-5 of those teams.

Yes, the valid replacements for LO could be David Lee or Ron Ron, but Ron is hot-headed and shoots a lot.

I have a question nor relevant to the topic of this blog/posts....WHAT is the exact status of Adam Morrison's physical injury/recovery/progress???? I know we cannot predict the futrure, or I would be there, but when I saw him play, he looked absolutely horrible, for a guy that's been in the league a few years. If his injury is career ending, we could move fast and pick up an exemption from the league, then he could try to make his comeback on "shaq" time, i.e. not on Laker time, but his own time.I know that's wild, aggressive speculation, but there are many teams rearranging themselves, and this is even before Y2TEN......(remember how Y2K had us all in paranoia, I remember work having us sit there and check out systems, but they're fools through and through....funny, cuz my wife works for their I.T. division now and she probably woulda said..."I'm going home, you guys sit there and stare"....

It's funny to find it everywhere in this blog that you think that one trophy will authomatically bring another? It's ridiculous to think by keeping the champingship team INTACT will bring you another.

Every other teams was adding improvement and getting better, a lot better for some of them and we are happy to stand still? You must have remembered only the RESULT and totally fogotten the PROCESS.

We have to get better in order to repeat!

Kobefan, i brought up Wally, not as a replacement for LO, but for Ariza, mainly because of his 3 point shooting, which is essential for the triangle. i know that we'd be losing a lot of defense, but what can you do? and i agree, Birdman can't replace LO, but at least he's a good defender (in the paint).

face it, most of the quality free agents, like Artest or Turkoglu or David Lee, Lakers won't be able to afford. we're already in Luxury Tax without resigning anyone! (and only have MLE to offer a free agent from another team, i believe)

as i stated, it's essential that we retain Trevor and Lamar. (i was only throwing out possible contingency plans)

Madson, you are right, but i hope the Lakers get better from within (better seasons from: Bynum, Trevor, Sasha, Jordan, and Shannon primarily). and if the other guys can improve, that's gravy.

Madson,

>>> It's funny to find it everywhere in this blog that you think that one
>>> trophy will automatically bring another? It's ridiculous to think by
>>> keeping the championship team INTACT will bring you another.

I think we all realize that every year and every team are different. But there was no doubt that we were the best team in the league last year so the starting point is to make sure that we bring that team back intact. That alone would make us the favorite. And of course, the championship has to be won over an 82-games plus playoffs schedule.

>>> Every other teams was adding improvement and getting better,
>>> a lot better for some of them and we are happy to stand still?
>>> You must have remembered only the RESULT and totally forgotten
>>> the PROCESS.

And who says that the other team’s trades will make them better as they REACT to the Lakers championship run and the realization that the Lakers are only going to get better as Bynum gets healthy and Odom, Ariza, and Brown are re-signed. I personally think the Shaq to Cleveland trade will doom the Cavaliers from even making the Eastern Conference Finals. And excuse me, but an unimpressive Richard Jefferson is not going to help an aging Tim Duncan and Tony Parker and injury-prone Manu Ginobli bypass the Lakers. And the Magic were totally stupid to choose to go with Vinsanity over Hedo. If that is what is scaring you, what you did back when we had Smush and Kwame?

>>> We have to get better in order to repeat!

We will without making any personnel changes. A wiser Kobe Bryant, healthy Andrew Bynum, tougher Pau Gasol, and more consistent Lamar Odom will make next year’s team much better than this year’s team without changing personnel and perhaps upsetting the team’s great chemistry. I think Kobe will take care of the problem of complacency and continue to push this team to get better. Bring back the key players and this team will be a juggernaut. JMO.

Tom

Listen everyone

Kobe will opt out, and will get the max. He might give a million dollars a year rebate but that's about all.

For those saying he won't opt out, you are just blooming idiots.
You opt out now to gaurantee more years and more money. It's stupid not to, because if Kobe suffers a major injury next year he will never get the money he could by opting out now. Case closed.

And for those saying he will opt out next year aren't doing your homework, Kobe's "option year" is this year, if he doesn't opt out he is locked in until after the 2010-2011
when he becomes an unrestricted free- agent.

If Kobe doesn't opt out I will banish myself from this blog forever.
Trust Me You Can Go To The Bank
KOBE WILL OPT OUT

I can't believe some of you think he won't, how illogical.

thanks blitz and ltlf for the sort of answer. I will point out that dfish taking the midlevel was a bit of an aberration, since he could have made a lot more if he stayed in utah, so it was sort of non repeatable, unless we can give hedo turkoglu's kid some kind of rare cancer.....probably not funny, right.

anyway. a lot of great knowledge of luxury tax and cba issues here, almost enough to offset the tin foil hats.

Please, don't eat all the CHEESE...

Anyway, the real reason ORL traded for VC is his 1-on-1 defense of KB24. Look at the video of the last few Laker-Net matchups: VC guards KB as well as anyone on earth. They both struggle to score against each other, in fact. In the 2 games matched up head to head, KB shot 10-34 from the field, and never looked even close to finding on offensive rhythm against Carter

Wes,

>>>...because I realized Rubio hadn't been traded to the Nicks
>>>yet. But when it does happen...the Bynum trade is on!

Nope. What the Knicks want most of all is gobs and gobs of cap
space so they can try to sign LeBron and someone else next summer.
What they don't want is a huge contract that goes on for 3 more years.

On the other hand, Minnesota is gravely lacking in the Center
department, and they've got a Rubio and a couple of other recent
lottery picks to dangle. Bynum's contract may be too high priced
for them, but they might go for Kaman or Camby.

If we can't sign Lamar Odom, how about signing Rasheed Wallace to the MLE? I think he would be great at the PF/C spot coming off the bench.

CHEESE-
i wouldn't mind Orlando thinking that.

YEN, you might be right, might be wrong. no need to be so dramatic...

"Anyway, the real reason ORL traded for VC is his 1-on-1 defense of KB24. Look at the video of the last few Laker-Net matchups: VC guards KB as well as anyone on earth. They both struggle to score against each other, in fact. In the 2 games matched up head to head, KB shot 10-34 from the field, and never looked even close to finding on offensive rhythm against Carter

Posted by: HIGH CHEESE | June 27, 2009 at 07:10 PM"

I think the only time that such a scenario played itself out at that high a level...you're talking Orlando's assuming it's going to be in the final two, and they are assuming the Lakers will be there, was the Lakers trading for Mychal Thompson, at the trade deadline, I can remember, I was on vacation, to neutralize his fellow Gopher alum Kevin McHale, who was nearly unstoppable, but was bothered by Thompson who had played 2 years with him in college.Other than that, I can't recall such a clearly specific trade acquiring one man to play another and t have ti play out on such a grand scale. Oh, by the way, no one stops KB24, they did in the past, but that was the past, Now he will read what he's up against and make the best calculated play. Time....it took time to get the knack, now let's see how many championships we can get out of it.

[REPOST from prior thread]

Bk,

and in the summer of 2010 will u criticize lebron and Wade for not taking less? Will u comeout and say lebron should resign with Cleveland for less than max? If he is going 2 NYC should he take less than max and help turn NYC into an instant contender? Or are you arguing they don't want to win as bad as Kobe? Or umm they haven't promised as much?

And where did you get 10 percent from? Why not 25 percent? Does 10 come with certain tax benefits, is that y u chose it?

And what about odom and ariza, should they take 5 percent off cuz datz half and they're not team caprains or that they want to win half as much? And oh I heard Jerry buss is a great owner that really really wants to win, does that mean he takes 30 percent off his profits?

And yo wat if I told u I make 6 bucks an hour and u should take a 20 percent cut for getting to do wat u do? I mean after all my wages are so much less than yours?

And oh great objectivity yo .... u touched on all d Other aspects just as much

BK,

Dude like seriously you can voice your opinion that it is something for kobe to consinder ... but to say he deserves criticism if he takes max money is such a classless act on your part I'm shocked

I demand an apology yo ... or at the very least post another thread defending further you claims ... in particular why doesn't this logic apply to king james, dwade, bosh next summer ...

Again I think it is so unfair to go anything further than "it'd be cool on his part, or it would help the team" ... but to go oh he should be criticized? ... and then exclude yourself from such logic because of the amount you make? ... i.e. if latimes is laying off a few clerks you should be criticized for not volunteering to take a pay cut? ... yeah it's cool for you cuz u ain't making millions

Apologize yo ... or be a coward and hide behind some slick paragraphs doing a song and dance about how you indeed umm acknowledged kobe's great impact on this team ...

Simply put, i think your opinion on this particular topic demands harsh criticism for being so tacky

Shaq could have been in the northwest?
http://tinyurl.com/ldye8t

Yo Taliq-

I'm not going to apologize to you for the post, so you don't need to keep demanding it. There's nothing to apologize for. It's an opinion. You can have your own, for which i won't demand an apology. To answer some of your questions (or at least the ones I could decipher):

-Yes, I would be critical of LBJ or Wade if they demanded max deals from their current or new teams in situations where it hindered that team's ability to put a great team around him. In salary cap/tax sports, the guys at the top end of the payroll need to be aware of how their salaries affect the rest of the operation if they want to have a championship caliber supporting cast.

-I put out 10% because it's a relatively small give back that would have significant positive impact on the team's salary structure. About 27 million, and Kobe still makes over 120 mil during the life of the contract. I didn't choose 25 or 50 or 75% b/c that didn't seem reasonable to me. I'm not talking about the guy lopping off 100 million in potential salary. That's silly. And as I said in the post, LO and Ariza are likely going to have to take less to stay in LA than they might get in another city, and Dr. Buss is going to have to cut into/put his profit margin at hgh risk by bringing everyone back. All involved have to give.

-As I said in the post, don't make "real world" comparisons to what these guys are doing. It's apples and oranges. My salary and your salary don't offer us the flexibility to make decisions based criteria that go that far beyond money, benefits, and that sort of thing. Kobe Bryant could make about 115 million over the next five years, even if he makes a big concession to the team. He makes 20+ mil in endorsements every year. He has that flexibility.

(And, it should be noted, while the context isn't identical, in real world jobs across the nation, people ARE in fact giving back salary, going on work furloughs, etc. to help preserve the jobs of co-workers and the life of their company. The newspaper industry is certainly no exception. What I'm talking about with Kobe (and his teammates as well as ownership, which you seem not to acknowledge all that much) is far less painful, relatively speaking. That gives everyone the ability to look at a collective goal of winning and balance it with money.)

BK

"Bynum hater"

Now resorting to name calling are you Laker Tom? Again try to be more mature about this.

I never said Bynum "sucked". Just pointed out the FACTS about Bynum. Calling him Mr. Big Mouth is well justified. He went out of his way to hype himself up as a defensive stopper and then went back to that "knee" excuse when he faltered. All the meanwhile Kobe played with a dislocated finger, Lamar with bad back, Gasol from the extra minutes, and Ariza with the fatigue and NONE used that as an excuse for any sort of poor play.

Again look at the previous post and see how "The Best" fared against "Gasoft who lets DUNK DUNK LAYUP DUNK!".

See? Putting out the negatives neither makes me a hater nor a homer. Just pointing out the FACTS instead of kissing him through all these times. Chick Hearn as a Laker fan as he was would NEVER stoop like Stu Lantz would and give excuses to Bynum and call him out for his play.

AK and BK do a fantastic (disagreeable at times) at doing a post game report and it may not be good all the time but they are fair most cases. That hasn't stopped people when their favorite player (i.e. Kobe or Bynum) are criticized and they go on crying and calling them haters etc.

There are a lot of views Laker Tom and not all of them are going to be nice. A more mature guy wouldn't go out of his emotions and cry when his/her favorite player is criticized.

You are more mature than this Laker Tom. I know you are.

"If Kobe doesn't opt out I will banish myself from this blog forever."

Good and don't let the door hit you on the way out for having on yee so little faith on this Laker team.

"If Bynum had accepted that contract, then he'd only be making slightly less this season. He'd have missed the statistical incentivessince he missed much of the season, but he would have gotten the playoff bonuses. And if he eventually plays up to the level his agent was hyping, then he would have earned MORE money than his current contract.

And if Bynum had rejected that contract, then right now he would be a restricted free agent who showed flashes of brilliance at times, but who missed half of each of the last two seasons with injuries. He would get offers, but they wouldn't be as large as what he's being paid now."

Excellent Post Long Time Laker Fan. I do disagree with you at times but hey this one hit the money right on.

p ang,

Remember those bad old days when we would argue over whether or not we should rest the franchise on Kwame Brown's shoulders?

Remember the passion? The confusion? The anger? The blind hope?

God really blessed us by giving us Pau Gasol for Kwame Brown.

Thank you, God.

What do we play for? RINGS!!!

Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.

GO LAKERS!!!!

humananomaly,

I have some hope that Adam Morrison will be able to contribute next year. I know, it may be my Lakerholicism talking right now, but I HOPE that Adam Morrison will be able to contribute based upon his year of learning the system, intelligence, and competitive nature. Several interviews with the Kamenetsky Brothers really turned my opinion towards the positive regarding Ammo.

All that much said, his diabetes makes him too slow a healer. Injuries are part of the game and, eventually, Adam Morrison is going to get injured. We can't wait six months for a healing that would take two months in a player who does not have diabetes.

I don't like to be bitterly pragmatic like this, but it's just the way it is. I think Ammo will have a better season next year and then his career with the Lakers will be over.

What do we play for? RINGS!!!!

Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.

GO LAKERS!!!!

Taliq,

"Dude like seriously you can voice your opinion that it is something for kobe to consinder ... but to say he deserves criticism if he takes max money is such a classless act on your part I'm shocked."

Dude, calm down! Lay off BK!

Personally, I agree with BK. As I stated before, Gilbert Arenas took less money to help his team win. Is Kobe going to be less of a competitor than Gilbert Arenas?

In addition, Laker Greats like Magic Johnson took less money so the Lakers could be the Great franchise that they are.

If Kobe is going for the mantle of one of the Greatest players ever, more comes with that than just trying to make the most amount of money.

What do we play for? RINGS!!!!

Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.

GO LAKERS!!!!

I wonder if any team would be willing to sign-and-trade Ariza back to the Lakers for Morrison (and his expiring contract) + a future first rounder.

I agree with Edwin Gueco.

Nonsense debate in this topic, AK/BK just want to generate hits on this blog this off season. This is not the way to celebrate championship. Just shut this blog down for know if you cannot discuss anything other than this topic.

I am out and see you when the season starts. Everyone needs vacation people. Enjoy the summer. There is more to life than to debate on Kobe's millions unless you are on his will.

Signing off
Jeanette

So I have two comments/questions ...

1. When KB Blitz & I had our discussions
on Trevor Ariza/the SF position, y'all
busted our chops on this extremely
long dialogue. Are y'all not guilty of
doing the same thing about Kobe's $$?

2. Would someone explain the logic
behind the Lakers Team/Buss family
getting to keep 50 mil in profit,
while Kobe/aka the best player in the
world has to take a pay cut to win
another championship?

3. All this talk about goodwill feelings
towards Kobe is interesting. Can we
quantify these feelings?

i.e. After Kobe's coaching on the
floor, averaging ~ 8 assists per game
during the finals, getting a finals MVP
and WINNING a championship ...
On a scale of 1 - 10: Kobe is an 8. If
he gives up 5 million dollars, so the
Lakers can match an offer for Trevor
or Lamar, which hasn't shown up yet,
I'll think he's a really swell guy, so he
gets a 10 from me.

I said this before, and I've seen no strong
response:

In terms of marketing: What difference
does 1 championship make?

My firm belief: It would be fantastic to
bring back both. The Lakers make more
than enough $$ to pay them both &
according to league rules have the
ability to pay them more than anyone
else in the league. This is not a Kobe
decision. It's a Lakers decision.

Taliq,

I'm really confused by your attack on BK.

I think calling him a "coward" is not cool at all.

What do we play for? RINGS!!!!

Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.

GO LAKERS!!!!

blitz,

>>> You are more mature than this Laker Tom. I know you are.

>>> "If Kobe doesn't opt out I will banish myself from this blog forever."

>>> Good and don't let the door hit you on the way out for having on
>>> yee so little faith on this Laker team.

You can just continue to play with yourself in the future, blitz. For the record, I was close to the first blogger to suggest that Kobe opt and take less to help the team to help his image but I never said anything close to the quote you are attributing to me. As far as I am concerned, you are already banished from my view of the blog.

Good bye and good riddance.

Tom

I find it to be VERY odd that BK produces a balanced, measured, REASONABLE argument about the benefits of Kobe taking less money and people freak out about it.

People respond like THEIR money is being stolen or something. Just bizarre.

Keep in mind, being the best in life doesn't always mean earning the most money. It's about something more than just money.

It's no insult to Kobe Bryant to note how him taking less money would be a way for him to help his legacy and help the Lakers remain consistently in contention for a Championship.

That's not an opinion. That's a FACT.

Become comfortable with that FACT.

What do we play for? RINGS!!!!

Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.

GO LAKERS!!!!

STRAIGHT SHOOTING: WHO WILL COACH THE LAKERS?
by Charley Rosen for FoxSports.com

http://tinyurl.com/nrbcev

Charley talks about an Internet rumor “That, within the next month, Mike Krzyzewski will take over as Lakers coach once Phil Jackson announces his retirement” as well as Kurt Rambis as a potential Lakers head coach. Charley thinks Coach K would not succeed.

Tom

"but I never said anything close to the quote you are attributing to me."

That was pointed at You Ever Notice not at you Laker Tom. Sorry that you got the wrong idea.

Taliq,

You crack me up. You're standing by an opinion and I can respect that. But BK has a point, I think. I keep going back and forth between "everyone should take a pay cut" and "Kobe deserves his money more than any Laker on this team."

When I think Kobe should take a pay cut, it's because I'm asking Odom and Ariza to do the same and I'm expecting Buss to pay some luxury tax.

But then again, Kobe missed out on those huge paydays that Shaq and Garnett got as leaders of their teams, and Kobe really, really has earned every penny of his contract. And now, we want him to break his contract and give back part of it.

OK, but who reading this is giving up 10% of their paycheck or medical / dental insurance so they can keep a coworker?

None of us would do that. Z-e-r-o. So why are we demanding Kobe does it? BK, we want to give Simers a raise (which is what Ariza is getting) so will you be giving up 10% of your pay and your dental/vision or your medical insurance? We need to give Simers that raise, real bad, BK, and maybe even bring Ron Rapport back to LA.

If we needed to add a star player like Gasol, then the story would be different. We would need Kobe and Maybe Lamar to take a cut because of salary cap restrictions. Those restrictions don't apply here because of the Larry bird rule, therefore the onus to pay remains on Buss, the owner, not Kobe the employee.

But who knows. I’m still trying to figure out which came first the yellow marshmallow chick or the pink one.

Wes

>>> We have to get better in order to repeat!

I would propose (as LakerTom also suggested) that the Lakers
will get better by staying the same.

in the 2008 finals, the Lakers were without Bynum, Ariza
played at 1/2 of what he's capable of (returning from injury),
and Farmar and Vujacic actually played pretty well for young
players playing in their first finals. Remember, Sasha's shooting
saved game 3. Without the machine's 20 in that game, the
Lakers get swept.

In the 2009 finals (and mostly the same cast), the Lakers
improved by having Bynum at 50% and Trevor at 100%,
plus a year of experience playing together as a team. That
was enough to push them over the top, despite the fact that
Farmar and Sasha played worse than they did in 2008.

There are a huge number of things that could improve for
the Lakers staying with the same roster (in order of likelyhood
from most likely to least likely):

1. Everybody gets better by playing together. Familiarity
with each others' tendencies makes it easier and more fluid
to play together. When you add a new player, there's usually
an adjustment period, and there's a chance they won't mesh
at all.

2. Bynum could stay healthy the whole season and play in
May and June like he was playing before both injuries.
That would be a HUGE bonus for the Lakers

3. Farmar and Vujacic could get some of their mojo back and
play more like they played in the 2008 finals. Better shooting,
less fouling, more composure.

4. Shannon Brown could pull a Trevor Ariza and come into
his own as a top tier role player. He played well early in the
playoffs but poorly in the finals. If he made as big a leap this
season as Ariza did last season, he takes over as starting PG
(unless of course Farmar improves as well).

5. Adam Morrison could come back to life!!!!! He was one of
the most prolific scorers in the history of NCAA. There's at least
some tiny sense of possibility that he could get his mojo back
and be a good bench scorer.

6. (least likely) - one of the other 3 bench players could make
a leap in productivity and be rotation worthy.

If any or all of the above happens, the Lakers would improve
more than any of these teams who are making desperate trades
trying to catch up to the Lakers -

Shaq = clogged lane = less drive and dunks for LeBron.

Carter = more shots for Vinsanity, less drive and dish by Turkoglu
for the open 3 by Lewis.

Jefferson = no Bruce Bowen to slow Kobe down.

Don't get me wrong, all three of those players do improve
the teams, but there are also things that the team gives
up to get the improvement, and whether it's enough to get
them past the Lakers is yet to be seen.

Not to mention the rumored pair that Detroit will be trying
to get: Boozer and Turkoglu. Nice improvement there.

But if the Lakers can keep all three of their FA's, then they
are the team to beat, until proven otherwise

My opinion on the whole situation is that if Kobe takes a pay cut, cool, he should be applauded for it. If he doesn't take a pay cut or takes his option, he should NOT be villified for it.

If Kobe takes a pay cut, then every other Laker should take the same percentage pay cut. That would be the fair thing to do.

Either way, the Lakers are a cash cow. Keep this team together and there's no way this team won't profit. I find it hard to look at this from the Jerry Buss point of view because he is super-rich, and Lakers are one of the most popular sports teams on the planet.

We've got a championship team primed to make a run for 5-6 years. I say pay the guys what they are worth, pay the luxury tax, and enjoy the ride.

Go Lakers!

Jon K,

You wrote: It's no insult to Kobe Bryant to note how him taking less money would be a way for him to help his legacy and help the Lakers remain consistently in contention for a Championship.

That's not an opinion. That's a FACT.

Become comfortable with that FACT.

my response: Actually, you're wrong
about this. The article by Kevin Ding
was explicit, and if you haven't read it
you should. The other link that the
K brothers posted is also clear.

To clarify: The Lakers have the ability
to pay Lamar & Ariza more than
anyone else in the league. *REGARDLESS*
of if Kobe opts out or takes a max
contract. Kobe opting out merely allows
the Lakers to do so without paying the
luxury tax or as much of a luxury tax.

In terms of his legacy, once again this
is incorrect or subjective at best. The
average fan has no recollection of
Magic or Duncan or KG taking less $$
for the team's sake. Doesn't the legacy
of a player consist of his memorable
moments and the accolades he's received?

Right now, Kobe's legacy consists of:

4 championships, 2 scoring titles, &
1 MVP. He is not guaranteed any more
of these. In terms of moments playing,
barring injury we all believe there will
be many more.

The bottom line is that *FACTUALLY*,
the Lakers signing Ariza & Odom is not
directly linked to Kobe. It is only
linked to Kobe when people want him
to be responsible for the fiscal
management of the team, of which he
is *NOT* legally responsible.

A strange question for you, but I'll ask
it anyway?

Would any of you expect MJ [ 30 mil ]
to take a pay cut for signing Steve Kerr?

GO TEAM USA!!!!

GO LAKERS!!!!

Kobefan... "Even if Bynum made 15/15/5 in the playoffs, do you think ANY team would have given him a 15mil/year contract??" Just wondering, is this with him having had the injury? Because, if we start making predictions that marry post-injury knowlege with pre-injury negotioations then aren't we really going down the rabbit hole?

Posted by: dave m | June 27, 2009 at 05:22 PM

==================
Thank you for the obvoius wisdom. Just what I was thinking but you beat me and much more eloguently than I would have done. Kudos.

hobbitmage, just to clarify (i think) the point Jon K. was trying to make, when Jon spoke of "legacy," he wasn't exactly talking about people remembering Magic or KG or Duncan taking pay-cuts. i think what he was getting at is that the "legacy" are championship rings. and Magic does have 5 of them, KG 1 and TD 4. thus, if kobe sacrifices, and if this allows the lakers to resign key players that help bring about more championships, this is better for his legacy. this is not my argument, but Jon K.'s, and i think it has some merit.

i just want Kobe and my team, the Lakers, to win as many championships as humanly possible.

wesjoe, not only would i take a pay-cut to help out a friend in need, but i'd write him or her a check. that's what friends do. but this analogy doesn't really hold that much weight, as LO, Trevor or Shannon can sign with other teams and still be filthy rich (well, in terms of Brown, relatively speaking). as one of the K bros brought up, we shouldn't compare this situation with our own lives, because if one of my friends lost their jobs, it would mean less food on the table, having to take the bus, not being able to pay the rent, etc. if Lamar lost his job, well... he's not gonna worry about not paying the rent, that's for sure. (unless if he made some stupid investments or got swindled like Mike Tyson)

i thought LTLF (or was it someone else) pointed out that Jerry Buss could wind up losing money next season. let's not all just assume that Buss has infinite amounts of money that he can keep throwing at the Lakers. there has got to be a ceiling somewhere. and it's probably in the 90s range (of millions of dollars). we're already in the Luxury tax, WITHOUT RESIGNING ODOM, ARIZA OR BROWN. think about that a moment. every penny we offer any of those three guys, Lakers will have to double for luxury tax.

most teams are struggling and nickle and diming just to stay at or below the tax. if Buss only resigns Trevor or Lamar, he's already sacrificing and is doing his fair share (IMHO) to field a winning team, while still being fiscally responsible. (and don't say any savings is going into JB's pocket... he does have to pay taxes, overhead, other employees, and of course shareholders)

i don't think anyone on here is suggesting Kobe ask Buss for less money. the argument is IF Kobe opts out, should Buss offer a long-term deal that is not max. and IF that happened, what would/should Kobe do? this is the issue, in a nut-shell, isn't it?

wow. i just reread what Dave M posted about going down the rabbit hole. that was eloquent. i like it.

Sorry KBros but have to interject polotics into blog but it is a sports story.

In a Daily News article today by Tom Hoffarth states that the delay in the parade was due to a rift or disagreement with Kobe and Mayor Villarigosa.

The story states that Kobe said he did NOT want to ride in Councilmans' bus and did not want Mayor on team bus.

Kobe stated that he did not like Villarigosa and said he did not want him pimping off of Kobe's popularity.

The story continues that other players snuck Mayor on the team bus behind Kobe's back.

The politics is that I support Kobe.

The Horse that has been beaten since the finals is dead guys..Please for the love of god change this thread and topic..You would think we had a guy named Smush running the point,Kwame sealing the paint and a stud named Cook gunning for the sixth man of the year....Please......Enough....

BK
I don't agree that the surrounding economy woes should be marginal to this discussion as you put that argument in parentheses at the end of your respose to Taliq (by the way, Taliq is way out of line!)

12 of the NBA teams have serious $$ problems. The NBA front office has had a wave of layoffs.

If the Lakers salaries keep going up, the price of tickets will go up. The whole salary structure is topsy-turvy in regard to the real-World economic disasters around our team.

I am not a pessimist, quite the opposite. I love our team and recognize how much Kobe has added to our quality of life.

We'll see how this works out soon,

Baywood

LTLF,

thanks for the response...very thorough and useful as always...

and thanks to everyone else who posted about the Morrison question as well...

and thanks also to everyone who still isn't riding that rapidly decomposing horse into the ground...

everyday I am waiting for some breaking Laker news (and to some extent any player movement NBA news)...guess it's that time of year, as it were...

is it Wednesday yet?

and oh yeah.....wait for it....WE WON...WE FRICKIN' WON !!!

GO LAKERS !!!

i apologize for continuing to beat the dead horse. other people keep commenting on it, and i can't help myself!

if i had the money, i'd be drinking at Hooters right now. (yeah, the economy has even limited my drinking habits)

football news....REAL football that is...

we showed extremely well against Brasil (native spelling)...Brasil's first goal less that 46 seconds into the second half was the real difference...

something to build on no doubt for World Cup next summer, but I would have liked the victory better Capt. Obvious...

that's about all the non related greatest game ever invented (i.e. basketball) post you'll get out of me, unless someone wants to talk about Johnny and the Moondogs or Python (Monty) Inc...

on second thought...this is a Laker blog and I like keeping it that way...please ignore this post, sorry...

GO LAKERS !!!

 
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