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Concerns for LO?

Lo It's become something of a ritual in Laker Land, a tradition going all the way back to late-2004.  Some seasons, we practice it more than others, but you know it's coming?  The annual "What's going on with Lamar Odom?" watch.  And after a three games with a combined total of 8 points- I actually thought the one bucket performance against Memphis was a low point of an otherwise outstanding game, but beauty is in the eye of the beholder- folks are asking the question again. 

Phil Jackson acknowledged sharing said concerns, but also expressed confidence that the southpaw will get out of the rut and back into the groove.  The O.C. Register's Jeff Miller wonders if this recent listlessness is simply a reflection of who the guy is, an attribute people need to accept as an inevitable and recurrent given.   But at least Laker fans have also been treated to some unexpected developments, namely the strong play of DJ Mbenga off the pine.  (Shannon Brown's ridiculous athleticism shouldn't come as a surprise.)  The Lakers will need these guys to contribute when asked during an upcoming tough(?) Western Conference roadie.

OTHER NOTES

 
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Odom's like a box of chocolates never know what yer gonna get

How could the Lakers not pick up Drew Gooden to prevent San Antonio from getting him?

Steve Nash and Rorschach, separated at birth.

Shaq was in the key for 5 seconds on the first play of the game when he made the basket. If he got called for every 3 second call, push off with left arm, and barreling over someone, he'd get a 3 second call every time on every offensive position and foul out in 2 minutes. Of course he get's fouled on almost every position too and the league also changed the rules so he wouldn't be so dominant.

LO doesn't need to play hard now that the trade deadline has passed. I think that's what he was doing.

Any day that Boston loses is a good day.

If the Lakers really are streak-busters, then perhaps someone should tell them that Portland has an 11-game win streak at the Rose Garden going into Monay night's game.

What's up with Mark Jackson calling himself the "truth teller" all of a sudden? Is that some pop culture reference I'm not aware of?

The Haney Project w/ Barkley is must-see tv for me. As much as you look at him now and think he's just an out-of-shape bumpkin, the guy is still an elite athlete in his head. He had Hank put him through a Tiger day and Sir Charles worked his butt off. Like a lot of us, Charles looks at golf like an escape and it's clearly been a long time since he's been able to enjoy it.

I never will believe in Odom. He is a choke artist. Odom will never be consistent and will allways get in foul trouble. Im worried when playoffs come he will be a no factor. Even bynum will not be the same when he comes back so without odom and bench we want get out of the first round.

I think we will not make the championship this year. We should go after chris paul as a free agent, no trades. Get odom, luke, sasha out. Stick whit fisher and farmer as backups. Starters Bynum , Gasol, Empty ( Shooter), kobe , chris paul. With good 8 man rotation. That whould be a real dynasty.

Omega two words for you dude:

Keep Dreaming.

lakers_sth,

Mark Jackson is an idiot.

-KB Blitz

I like that lakers_sth:

"If the Lakers really are streak-busters, then perhaps someone should tell them that Portland has an 11-game win streak at the Rose Garden going into Monay night's game."

I want to see good focus and no "coming out flat" or "tired legs" crap.

We need the Portland game because I don't know how we'll win in both Houston & San Antone without Drew.

GO LAKERS!!!

kb blitz,

you wrote:

Horace played PF most of the time and was more of a jump shooting PF similar to Powell yet his FG% was up to 50%+. He didn't play center most times if you watch not only Bulls games but also Lakers game he played PF. Only in times where there was no center (ie. Shaq being suspended or injured) he was forced to play center.

You are out of you damn mind to even think that Powell could be compared to Horace Grant.

my response:

hmmm ... Your reading skills seem
to be off today. Let me help you.

http://tinyurl.com/b8h5zn

[ note, you can click on the above link
for research purposes. ]

90-91, 91-92 & 94-95 HG shot over
54%. JP is shooting 49% right now.
That is just about a 10% differential.
Statistically speaking 10% is actually
not much. i.e. 100% vs. 90%. Both
are still A's on the standard grading
curve in the US. Outside of those
seasons that I just listed the differential
is less than 10% which is *STILL* not
much.

You conveniently ignore that your
comment about HG being much
bigger & stronger is factually untrue.
i.e. 1 inch in height and 5 lbs in weight.


re: comparing HG to JP, what I said was:
"I don't think you have enough evidence
to compare them. " If JP was getting as
much playing time as HG did, according
to the statistics his numbers would be
comparable. Until he gets those
minutes, you can't compare them.


Since JP has not had those
opportunities, once again you can't
compare them.

http://tinyurl.com/byysgp

The above url is a link to a harvard
web page on how to do a
comparative analysis. It might be
helpful for you to read it.

I have my odom doubts. I think he is the key to the championship this year. With or without bynum. If he plays to his potential and skills we can we it for sure. I think if he had played better last year we would have one it.

Mark Jackson is a terrible commentator and has never said anything insightful.

omega - I was thinking something similar. Why can't we get a great PG and then we will dominate!! Is it that hard for Mitch to pull this off? Get rid of Walton. Sign a true PG - I know others say you don't need a good PG to run the triangle. They know more than me for sure. But man - if we had someone like CP3 or DWills - no team could stop us. (this is probably not reasonable since we'd have to give up players - unless we can dump Walton, Morrsion, etc...)

Regarding LO - I really hoped he had turned a new leaf with that performance against the celtics. I'm still hoping that he won't disappear in the playoffs when we need him the most. Maybe we all just have to accept that this is who he is....but if he plays playoff games, like he did that Celtics games we have a good shot at the ring.

I still can't figure out why we can't blow out teams that are far inferior to us. Are the Lakers just nice guys and don't want to make others feel bad? Why can't we take a 15 point lead to 30 or 40? I'm not saying to be bad sports put lets put these teams out by end of 2nd quarter and definitely by end of 3rd quarter.

Suns lose fourth straight on the road which tells me that their win over the Lakers last Sunday was nothing but a fluke. Utah beat a weak Toronto team on the road today, but we'll see how they do on the rest of their five game road trip. Utah's win streak consist of 7 of their wins at home and their road wins were against weak teams. Utah is not the threat to the Lakers as many make them out to be. I believe that they will lose in the first or second round even if they have homecourt. Our biggest threats are clearly the Spurs, Hornets and possibly Houston.

omega putting this season in the refrigerator already. I think that makes 3 "fans" so far on this blog that have done that.

Omega,

You sure are a GHE kind of guy, aren't you? The Lakers currently hold the best record in the NBA, they've beaten all the teams they're supposed to (barring Orlando), Bynum is coming back soon, Kobe is playing great ball, Fish is starting to feel it, the bench had a great game on Friday... and you're already claiming a first round exit? Way to believe, man, way to believe.

When the Lakers are playing in the Finals, I expect you to be silent.

Go Lake Show!

Couple things I learned from watching the PHX-Spurs game:

PHX actually has defensive schemes. I know this b/c there was a shot of Nash getting back on D yelling "blue! blue!"

Duncan likes to palm the head of teammates who make good plays. Either on top of the head or the back of the head. Not sure if each has a special meaning.

No need to worry about LO. He'll bounce back soon enough and come through for us in the playoffs.

Comparing Horace Grant and Josh Powell is pretty silly at this point. Horace was one of the best post defenders in the league for a long time, including his time with the Lakers. His defense, rebounding and shooting was one of the major reasons why we were able to sweep through the 2001 playoffs.

And best wishes to Chuck Daly and his family. Though I hated the Pistons with a passion while he was coaching them, I wouldn't wish cancer - esp pancreatic cancer - on anybody. Here's hoping that he recovers from a frightening situation.

Some Basic, Succinct Observations....

1. Didn't we just win our last game handily?

2. Lamar is in a mini-funk. He'll be out of it soon. Will he be playing like he did when he was tearing it up? Maybe. But don't worry. Things will be fine.

3. Did I read that people are complaining that we're not dominating? Ummm... we're the first team to fifty wins, by the way.

4. I like Shannon Brown a lot as a player.

5. Why are people complaining about Josh Powell? He's as good or better than Ronny Turiaf, he plays conistently hard AND his salary is DIRT CHEAP. No more whining!

6. Marc Jackson IS an idiot.

7. I can hardly wait for Bynum to return.

What do we play for? RINGS!!!!

Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.

GO LAKERS!

Just like birds fly south in the winter, you can expect Lamar to go through periods like this one.

As a fan, I feel we've always been left in the dark in terms of what motivates this guy.

I believe people have a differential response to drug use, particularly weed. Odom has shown that to be his poison in the past. I don't feel that just because he hasn't been busted by the like lately that he's totally clean. Moreoever, if Odom is one of those guys that responds strongly to weed, loses focus, concentration, timing and motivation intermediate term, that would make sense off this situation.

I am in no way attempting to cast aspersions here. It's just the explanation for Odom that tends to bang around in my head. I can't think of another example of so talented and sometimes productive an NBA player that goes through such long streaks of inconsistency.

I get very frustrated with Odom, but I'm even more frustrated with fans that think Odom has turned a corner every year and he pulls this same stuff.

My only solace is that he typically plays stronger to close out the season and the playoffs, but that wasn't a strong enough trend for him to play really well versus Boston and get us a win last Finals.

Maybe Odom can't thrive in this system. He always seems to play better when Kobe isn't on the floor. Maybe he can only motivate, step up, and play to his potential in short bursts?

Maybe he needs treatment for ADHD?

Whatever it is, I wish they'd figure it out because having this guy on our team with such talent coupled with such inconsistency has been driving me crazy for years.

I'm not totally frustrated with the lull in Odom's consistency following a very hot streak yet, but I'll get there, especially if it plays an important part in a few losses.

omega & james,

Forget about Chris Paul and Deron Williams. They're both signed
with their teams until 2013 and they wouldn't trade them to the
Lakers. Not even if the Lakers offered Kobe & Bynum.

Oh, by the way...

It annoys the living hell out of me that the Lakers have to "consult" with Chinese officials before Sun Yue could be sent down to the Defenders.

Ridiculous.

Communism is a joke.

Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.

GO LAKERS!

Well,

Mark Jackson did say he thought when all was said and done that Kobe would be the best player ever in NBA history.

That's a very interesting and risky comment and I give him props for that.

the lakers 14 mil. codependency with LO continues. what's new.

he always plays well when the trading deadline is around. or like in 2007 playoffs when he was hurt, (as a new yorker, he tried to pull a willis reed), playing out of his mind with his hurt shoulder. obviously, he wanted to be a hero before the summer trading season and to leave a good impression on our retina. and the FO.

to use AK's expression: myopic fanaticism from us and the FO.

personally i have ZILCH regards and respect for LO.

his only VERSATILITY is regarding his mental state. yes up and more downs. ohhhh and MIAs that are worst than downs.

obviously everyone sees a mini-slump. except BK who after the memphis game did not put him in the BAD category because he had a pretty good stat line, except scoring. after minny, BK let AK to put him in the BAD dept. the K Bros bailout policy.

as much as i understand "intangibles", "defense", each game is won by the team that scores one more point than the other. 4+4+2=10 points for LO in the last 3 games is 3.3/game. even SUN from the D-league can do that. and in the same time SUN can collect the # of fouls to leave the game. but hey, we have no expectations from SUN but many excuses from LO.

last night i followed the Knicks game. Walt Frazier had the following comment:

the teams toward the end of the season r improving their FT shooting. Knicks went from 73% to 79% in the last few games.

he said that the improvement is happening for 2 reasons:

1. every game is very important for play off contention and seating, and a game can be won from the FT line. (nothing new, we all knew that-see Floyd)

2. EMBARRASSMENT

i'm wondering if we can send this memo from his dream arena, the MSG, to LO. he was poor all season (except the 2 big ones in boston) and in the last one had a brilliant 0-4. from 2-2 to 0-4 is versatility. everything in between is intangibles.

Andrew Bynum's knees are made of jello.Should not Mitch explore some trade`s and get something of value before Bynum blows up again.Two major injuries for a young man not a good sign.Jerry and Mitch do the right thing and trade him.

So Birthday wishes for Sasha? Cold.

Benjamin

nice to see u around even if seldom.

i agree, the only one to risk to cheer for kobe r mark jackson and also lately reggie miller, who always appreciates a great shooter especially in clutch moments.

Benjamin,

>>> I believe people have a differential response to drug use, particularly weed.

Are you saying the killer weed is making Lamar Odumb? LOL. Or is it just relaxing him too much. Actually, the guy we need to get some ganja to is Sasha. I am sure that he would be a much more relaxed player if he had a toke or two before entering the game. Phil could call his number a couple of minutes early to give him a chance to run to the locker room for a couple of tokes. I am sure this would solve his anxiety problems. Since we are in California, the team physician should actually prescribe this solution for Sasha. Imagine a completely relaxed and no longer hyper Sasha returning to pure Machine form. After scoring 30 points on 10 for 10 shooting beyond the arc, Sasha looks into the camera and gives Faith a big smile for believing in him. LOL! One Toke over the Line. Smoke two joints.

JMNSHB (and joking)O! What, no game on Sunday. Bring on Monday.

Tom

jon k.

your racism toward SUN is obvious (especially following other post)

i know u can't comprehend but i will explain it to u: the chinese government is sending some players, from their national team, especially starters, to be featured in the NBA. and in big markets. remember, Yin in milwaukee was not a fit.

so D-league is really not a place to feature a player. is it? i will take his a$$ back to china myself than to let him play with the scrubs. and the Lakers front office knew that.

remember, good or bad, he is still the point guard of the Chinese national team regardless if u like him or not, or if the lakers play him or not.

that's like asking some asian fans of Sun to go to D-fenders game. i'm sure they can buy tickets at the staples.

i hope u go to Tiananmen Square to protest or to punch them in the face. but first, please check if the Dit Da Jon is working on your brain. maybe is used as an alternative treatment to cool down heat in the body.

I know this b/c there was a shot of Nash getting back on D yelling "blue! blue!"


Posted by: lakers_sth | March 08, 2009 at 03:16 PM

Actually, he was having flashbacks of the movie "Old School". His mental lapses on the court are getting more and more pronounced.

Benjamin

i'm not speculating on his use, but psychologically he has the druggy mentality. sweat talk you till he gets his FIX and scr$w u over after. maybe he is not conscious about it and i'm sure he always had the money to buy it. but hey, comes with the territory.

Forget CP3 and Deron Williams. Let's get Durantula when he becomes a free agent. Durant could be a worthy successor to Kobe.

"You conveniently ignore that your
comment about HG being much
bigger & stronger is factually untrue.
i.e. 1 inch in height and 5 lbs in weight."

Oh really then tell me why Michael Jordan is 5 lbs less than Kobe Bryant is (that is MJ in his prime) yet was stronger than Kobe is? Don't believe me? Phil even said it himself and Michael had a better post up game (which requires strength as much as skill).

Another example of how it isn't always the case: Tim vs Pau. Tim weighs less than 5 lbs than Pau yet he's stronger than Pau is. Tim who could handle Shaq much better than Pau could!

Point is: You can't always tell how "strong' they are by only pointing to weight/height! There are quite a few people at 24 hours who "only" weigh 5 lbs more than others and is around 1-2 more taller yet is much stronger!

"Since JP has not had those
opportunities, once again you can't
compare them."

Then why even bother me about this ? I said you can't compare them yet it was JC Garcia did! I *never* compared Powell Hobbitmage yet you said I compared them? Why don't you read the links you posted? That could help you a ton! I said that Powell is no way comparable to Horace Grant yet you go off saying how he's not bigger or stronger. Horace was a physical rebounder than the "active' Powell. While he is almost tied with Powell in terms of weight and height that doesn't mean Powell is as strong as him! Horace was strong enough to play center even at age 38 in his last year with the Lakers! Powell can't play center as good and part of it is because he's not as strong enough and that led more playing time for DJ Mbenga.

I wonder why I put up with you so much. You are so a homer for the young Laker dudes and will never criticize them. Jeez Hobbit even Chick Hearn wasn't above not criticizing the Lakers players no matter *WHO* it was!

-KB Blitz

Benjamin,

Even if Kobe manages to get 6 rings he still won't have surpassed Magic Johnson in my book. Winning 7 with a few Finals MVP will go past Magic (he has 3 so 4 more rings) and get him with Michael.

Regardless no one will ever reach Wilt Chamberlain in my book. NO ONE.

Jon K.

Cool man we both agree on another thing:

Mark Jackson is an *IDIOT*.

-KB Blitz

Odom just has serious issues. His head is not in teh right place. We know that he will crumble like a piece of cookie when we face adversity in the play-offs. That is why we will not win it this year. It pains me that his arse was not traded off. The only way we win is when we are always ahead. We cannot ever have a come from behind win with him starting in the play-offs.

Benjamin

personally i believe that LO problems r regarding his image as player (how good he is, where is his place in the FAME line) and maybe as a person (started a fashion line?!)

well, he never liked to be the 2nd fiddle next to Kobe. finally he accepted it. but Bynum came along and shaked him. and after Bynum was out last year, gasol came along.

for the past 2 months, after being on the Bench (that he did not accept as his ROLE), he started again and played very well for 4 games. and, gasol got the Player of the week award and later the Player of the month. i really believe that the award was a slap in Lo's face.

also he is not smart enough to understand that Gasol's award were there to take away points from Kobe in his run for the MVP. obviously, even if Mo won a few games for cleveland, no writer mentions him that he helps LBJ. it is always about LBJ.

LO twice a loser: one, for being envious regarding Gasol for being an All Star and getting this award, and second, for not understanding the context of the award in a parallel MVP race.

I knew I forgot something. Today is "What's wrong with Odom" Day?

How could I have forgotten? It's certainly one of the most important days of the year when basketball fans all over the world put aside their differences and come together with the common goal of making LO a more consistent performer. I'm getting a tingly Christmas-like feeling inside. haha

I don't understand this belief we have that everything is going to be well once Bynum returns. I will be amazed if he is anywhere close to what he was at the beginning of the season. Secondly, we should get used to it, the man is injury prone and he will never play more than half the season ever in his NBA career. We should just learn to move on.

"Oh, by the way...

It annoys the living hell out of me that the Lakers have to "consult" with Chinese officials before Sun Yue could be sent down to the Defenders.

Ridiculous.

Communism is a joke."

Andrew and Brian, I officially don't think you're reading the posts you approve. If that wasn't downright racist, I don't know what is.

I'm sorry, but that is [expletive] [expletive]. I'm Asian, and I don't appreciate comments like that.

Benjamin,

I used to ask about LO and Mary Jane. I was only half joking. If he disappears because the weed wears off in the second half, we need a dispensary in the locker room.

PS Doom and gloomers, "weak, man, real weak."

GOOoooOOOOOOOoooOOO LAKERS!!!!

And the big Shaq Baby keeps whining.... (pulled from an LA Times article)

"Insiders say Shaq wants out. His recent tear came after reports he was almost traded. Said teammate Grant Hill: "Shaq plays better when he's mad."

I thought Shaq cared about his career and was working out and doing all of those things to be a better ballplayer. BUT as I was rudely reminded by this article, Shaq is still a big baby and is only putting up numbers and staying in shape to spite the Sun's management for thinking about trading him.

I'll be very surprised if Shaq isn't "injured" for a good portion of next season. What a waste of talent. He could've rivaled Bill Russel in rings, but he was always too content with what he has, his rap career, SHAZAM!, driving down the streets of Orlando, clubbing, partying, and doing everything else but trying to be the #1 player in the game.

EJK: well said. I wanted to say the same thing because it didn't look like blitz or hobbitimage talked about.

HG was a premier defender at the PF.

Sad about Shaun Livingston playing in the D league. Dude - you just never know what's going to happen. I wish him all the best.

Jon K wrote:

“It annoys the living hell out of me that the Lakers have to "consult" with Chinese officials before Sun Yue could be sent down to the Defenders.”

I believe the contracts of the Chinese players require that half their salaries are given to the Chinese government. Thus, the need to “consult”…

In the case of Yao-Ming, nine entities were needed to sign and approve his contract:

• Yao Ming
• Yao's parents
• The Shanghai Sharks
• The Chinese Basketball Association
• The Shanghai Municipal Sports Management
• The Chinese National Basketball Agency
• The Chinese National Sports Commission
• The NBA
• The Houston Rockets

I presume the same level of bureaucracy also applied to Sun's contract. In addition, the Lakers are obligated to let Sun play/practice for the national team if the situation requires, as in Olympics, etc.

Cactus Berry (and anyone else concerned),

I didn't consider that comment by Jon K. to be "racist" (communism isn't a race, nor is its roots limited simply to the Asian/Chinese race) as much as just irrationally stupid, reactionary and not particularly well processed. But if someone wants to look ridiculous in a crowd, it's his/her right, I suppose. Jon often comments without thinking, literally starting off every morning with a list of thoughts he makes sure to specify as not well thought out. I just wrote this off as another of the like, since he very clearly has issues with Sun.

If anyone was offended or felt a line was crossed, however, it was not our intention.

AK

Benjamin,

Something I'm curious about is whether or not this "Greatest To EVER Play The Game!" nonsense was ever an issue before Michael Jordan and his media machine.

I mean, "THE GREATEST OF EVER PLAY THE GAME" isn't a major discussion in baseball.

Nor in football.

A little in hockey (Gretzsky), but it's not an obsession.

A LITTLE in soccer, but not so much.

Why is it such a big deal in basketball?

Methinks it has A LOT to do with Michael Jordan's media machine, especially since David Stern used Michael Jordan to make basketball as popular as it is, nationally-speaking.

What do we play for? RINGS!!!!

Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.

GO LAKERS!

ouchhhhhhhhh/Cactus Berry,

"your racism toward SUN is obvious (especially following other post)"

Are you guys fricken crazy?

This has NOTHING to do with Sun Yue's ethnicity.

He just can't play.

Yao Ming can. Sun Yue can't.

What does that have to do with ethnicity?

If Sun Yue was from Taiwan we wouldn't have to deal with this Communist nonsense. He'd still be Chinese, which is ABSOLUTELY cool with me. I didn't fricken study Chinese martial arts for 20 years and IMMERSE myself in ancient Chinese philosophy if I didn't respect the culture.

I PURPOSELY travelled to China when I was younger because it was a personal dream for me. I spent a whole year saving up for it.

I just don't respect Communism. It would be no different if it were Russian or Slovakian (my ancestory) or Cuban. I don't like Communism.

Are you guys saying that because I think Communism is a joke that I'm a racist?

WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU?

You guys owe me an apology.

Both of you have major problems.

Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.

GO LAKERS!

AK/BA

how many times Jon K. was banned from the blog or get time outs?! when enough is ENOUGH?!

Cactus, i'm not Asian/African-American, but Jon K's attitude is obvious regarding his defense of every white scrub and lately his total hatred toward Sun.

see ouchhhhhhhhh | March 08, 2009 at 04:39 PM


AK,

What the hell are you talking about?

In a free society, you think that we should have to consult government officials before engaging in personal business action?

MY STATEMENT HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH SUN YUE BEING CHINESE!!!! NOTHING!!!!

THEY HAVE TO DO WITH THE QUALITY OF HIS PLAY AND IN THE RECENT COMMENT ABOUT THE SILLINESS OF HAVING TO CONSULT COMMUNIST OFFICIALS BEFORE SENDING A PLAYER TO D-LEAGUE!

THAT'S ALL!

AK, what is wrong with you?

This is just plain uncool.

Yao Ming is a great player who happens to be Chinese.

Am I now "okay" because I noted THE OBVIOUS that Yao Ming can play, even dominate, on an NBA level?

I am shocked by this.

I wasn't aware that there was a "No Criticize Sun Yue Rule" because he's Chinese. How does that make sense?

It doesn't.

Again, let me make this PERFECTLY CLEAR: My criticisms of Sun Yue HAVE NOTHING to do with his ethnicity. NOTHING. NOT A THING.

They have to do with the quality of his play.

That's it.

I am terribly offended that people would paint this as something other than what it is and engage in character assassination.

It's sickening.

Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.

GO LAKERS!

Lamar Odom
is a slacker the few days before the last trade deadline was looming he was on jalopeana, but look at him now he is back to the hard stuff. shame on Mitch Kupchak

AK,

Next time critiquing Communism is an offensive and taboo subject, let me know in advance, okay?

Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.

GO LAKERS!

ouchhhhhhhhh,

Dude, you are flat out idiot and shame factory.

You have major problems.

Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.

GO LAKERS!

AK,

As Raplh Kramden would say "To the moon, Alice. To the moon."

Seems it finally connected.

Where has America come to that we cannot criticize communism because it is "racist?" Would criticizing fascism be racist against Italians and Germans? Would criticizing Pol Pot be racist against Cambodians?

I have to agree with AK/BK on this one. Communism is a bad idea and saying so is not racist.

And, BTW, neither is saying that Sun Yue deserves the D-League!! Not all value judgments are about race.

GOOooooOOOO LAKERS!!!!

ouchhhhhh,

"Cactus, i'm not Asian/African-American, but Jon K's attitude is obvious regarding his defense of every white scrub and lately his total hatred toward Sun."

What are you talking about?

How have I defended "white scrubs" on this team?

I like players who can play and/or show heart. The color of their skin is irrelevant.

I find interesting that this is such an issue for you.

"Methinks the lady doeth protest too much"

Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.

GO LAKERS!

Jon K,

I said from the start, I didn't think your issue was with Sun's race. I believe you. But when you write something that potentially reactionary, basically taking a country and its politics to task, then simplify it down to just an irritated "communism is a joke," you should expect some people to toss you a sideways look. I'd have expanded on it a little more, so people might know where you were coming from. Particularly since you've very obviously had a bug up your butt about Sun being on this team since preseason.

I gotta be honest. I completely understand why people took the comments the way they did. Even if they were wrong about any racism fueling it (and again, I did say I don't think that was an issue), your obsession with a 15th man rookie on the bench is pretty striking. Whether intentionally or not, you come off as extremely resentful towards Sun being on this team.

AK

If you are totally ignorant about Sun Yue's contract , and how complicated Mitch said about getting the deal done to sign Sun's contract, you should shut up, Jon K , you are a joke.
I still insist that Odumb be traded ,no matter what.
Rumors said Rocket's coach don't like Yao, and thinking of trading Yao some time in the futher. Should we offer the injury prone Bynum to get Yao ?

Very funny #4!

That's my boy blue!!

Chill out guys.

I'm Asian, live under communism for 10 years, & I don't think Jon K comments were racism

I'm very upset by this.

Haven't I been on this blog since the very beginning?

Don't people recognize how much I care about the Lakers?

Do people HONESTLY think that I'd criticize a player who I'd otherwise think would be able to contribute to the Lakers simply based upon the color of his skin? Someone would think that I'm THAT petty?

People criticize Lamar Odom, Kobe, recently Josh Powell... all of whom happen to be African-American. So what? Does that make them racist?

How does criticizing Communism (A POLITICAL SYSTEM) make a person racist? If anything I should be viewed as racist against Germans. Germans INVENTED the philosophy of Communism.

It's just crazy and it makes me angry that AK retorts that "I should have known better."

Give me a break.

Upon that rationalization, next time someone criticizes the Democratic Party they should "Be wary, because people might take it the wrong way."

I am shocked and disgusted by all of this.

If Sun Yue can be a VIABLE contributor to the Lakers, I will be very happy. Unfortunately, I have not seen anything to convince me YET that that is a reasonable expectation.

Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.

GO LAKERS!

What the hell is wrong with you---communism intervenes in NBA business ?
You travelled to Communist China but don't like and don't respect it's country and it's people ? What the hell.........

Well, I hate communism, too, and think it is unlikely the Sun Yue will have much of an NBA career.

Jon K,

I don't think the reason you took flak over the comment isn't because you're "criticizing" communism. It's that the comment felt quite out of left field and surprisingly bent out of shape. I mean, honestly. It bothers you THAT much that the Lakers would need to make a few phone calls to the Chinese government before sending Sun down? In the grand scheme of things, on a scale of 1-10, I think most people would regard this as about a 2. Throw in the amount of genuine disgust you often express towards Sun being on the team and it's very easy to misinterpret.

Again, I will go to bat for you that the issue has nothing to do with Sun's race. I honestly believe you and would urge others to do the same. But at the same time, you often go out of your way to emphasize not thinking much about stuff before commenting. To me, this felt like an extension of writing before thinking. Or at the very least, writing in a way that would provide clarity.

Jon K

don't bring in your pathetic " how long u r on the blog" so what. only u and lakertom have this sense of the blog elders.

all what we know about u is that u r a CLIPPERS fan.

and they S$$K big and players like LO got contaminated

Clippers Today... Clippers Tomorrow... Clippers Forever.

GO CLIPPERS!

Posted by: Jon K. | March 08, 2009 at 07:04 PM

ok cool down folks Jon was merely saying how it was ridiculous about how they had to consult so many organizations back in China for Sun to be even sent down to the D-League. Remember China being a communist country their sports club are more closer to the government than the ones here in the NBA. It was a similar situation with Hamed Haddadi and the Grizzlies trying to sign him though I haven't heard anything about the Iranian government complaining when he was sent to the D-League.

Is it absurd he had to go through all those? Yes, the Lakers had to go through so much organizations in order to send Sun into the D-League while other players like Jordan Farmar, Coby Karl, and Von Wafer didn't have that much problem.

Do I disagree with Jon K about Sun? Yes I do at times and I'll never understand why he defends/brings support for Clipper scrubs like Powell (who was a good signing), Quintin Ross, and Shaun Livingston. That being said Jon K. has been a great blogger here and he isn't the kind of person who would hate a player simply for their race.

Jon, I will say that your Anti-Sun Yue feelings aren't really popular. And I do disagree with you in that Sun being a good player or not since he did put up 11 points and 7 assists in his first D-League game where the competition was tougher than the ABA and heck I was right about his shooting not being his best skills that Laker Tom and LTLF said he had. But hey there are other bloggers who simply don't like other Lakers such as Hobbitmage with LO, jimjoyce with Kobe, Mike T. on Pau and Andrew Bynum, oucchhh on Trevor/LO/Sasha/Jordan, pfunk36 with Luke and Phil Jackson. Does that make them racist? Not quite.

Bottom folks: Jon K. isn't a racist though I could understand why his Anti-Sun Yue comments may seem that way. If there is a blogger who may hate that person for their race, AK/BK will catch it for sure.

And I agree with AK Jon, your resentment of a little used rookie who doesn't even play much is quite puzzling. I mean were you giving the same treatment to Von Wafer (except for the Communist thing) when he was on the Lakers? And TS, get your head back into reality man, the trade deadline has PASSED.

-KB Blitz

Amazing how a little politics/racism can just blow up the blog. Well, I guess something had to make up for the lack of trolls with both Boston and PHX losing.

btw - I think Mark Jackson's comments about Kobe being best ever when it's said and done might be motivated a little by his (Jackson's) competitiveness with Jordan. Thankfully, I didn't hear him declare himself the "truth teller" today but he didn't break out "momma there goes that man" just for fun. I know that people have hated on the JVG-Jackson combo b/c they talk about everything except for the game. JVG came out of a promo for ABCs show "Castle" talking about how underrated a movie "The Last Castle" was.

My own two cents - I don't get what the fuss is about Jon's comment. Seriously. I don't care if somebody says communism sucks or democracy sucks or monarchys suck. Tom, who I respect hugely, often says that everything about Boston sucks. So do a lot of bloggers. I grew up in the Boston area, moving to So-Cal as a teenager and have spent portions of my adult life in New England. I love New England but it doesn't bother me that somebody else rags on it. I can randomly think of many things that suck. I think Pacoima sucks. I hated John Denver... stupid Rocky Mountain High. I thiink nuts in brownies suck. The electoral college sucks. I'd say that my ancient Ford Explorer, which consistently embarrasses my daughter with its rattles and squeaks and doors that don't properly close, sucks. But I can't, I love it too much.

Where was I? Oh right. You just can't get too bent about somebody slamming something or somebody on this blog unless it's done with real intentional malice which didn't remotely seem the case with Jon's comment.

Kobeblitz,

I'm still smarting from last year's loss to the Celtics in the Finals.

We HAVE to win a Championship this year.

This year has to be about NOTHING but that.

We don't need any dead weight. That's it.

Sun Yue seems like a nice guy and I hope he surprises me. I'd love to root for the guy, but... I've just been terribly disappointed by his limited play this year. I was actually scared by watching him play and thinking to myself "How could the Lakers sign this guy? THIS YEAR? What were they thinking?"

To be honest with you, I have my concerns about Adam Morrison, too.

I mean, this is a year that anything less than a Championship is a disappointment. We don't need two players who can't contribute.

Not to sound weak here, but, I hurts my feelings that people would think that I'd root against a Laker because of the color of his skin. All I care about is the Lakers winning. That's it.

It also really bothers me that AK would chastise me. Actually, it makes me angry. I'm still completely befuddled that people would assume that a slight on Communism is somehow "racist." Give me a break.

Anyhow, I'd LOVE for Sun Yue to be a major contributor to this team. Like I said, he seems like a good guy, but it seems like a spurious signing to me and that bothers me.

After last year's loss to the Celtics, we have to be focused EXCLUSIVELY on the Championship. No signing people as "experiments."

That's all.

What do we play for? RINGS!!!!

Lakers Today... LLakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.

GO LAKERS!

May I butt in....

Jon K, of course I agree with your love of freedom, unfortunately our type of freedom is not openly practiced in other parts of the world but they too have another brand of freedom and it is a discipline against Western abuses. Whether you agree or disagree, that is another gamut of issues that we will tackle.

Politics is hard to solve, once you delve into it, there is no point of return - it involves society, history, culture etc. so it is safe to leave it as it is.

Cactus Berry & Ouchhhh, our good friend and loyal Laker fan, Jon K is not a racist, he is just passionate of his brand of democracy. Perhaps, if you used another word in communicating with him, you may be discussing in the same frequency but once you call him the R-word, it inflames him more, it will be a tit for tat of anger.

For the good of blog, it is best that we all bury these issues of miscommunication and misinterpretation. We can never solve the problem of the China syndrome, it is just too much for this blog. Sun Yue is good for marketing addition for the Lakers but there are appurtenances to his contract, the less we know, the better understanding we will have on the man, himself and on things that we could not change. For all we know, Yao, Yi and Yue are yearning to be free and this is the best time of their life. So let it remain there.

Hey folks, everybody made it clear that it's not a racial issue, Kambrothers said ..someone " often comments without thinking, " and he " clearly has issue with Sun ", that's true. And please don't involve hatred in communism in this matter, it don't make sense.
KB Blitz, of course I know trade deadline has passed.

Jon K,

If you felt my initial response was too far out of bounds, then I apologize. I do think you came off as pretty over the top out of nowhere, but if it was too much on my part, that's no better, either.

AK

Kobeblitz,

I mean, man, don't you find it a LITTLE annoying that the Lakers have to negotiate with Communist officials before sending Sun Yue down to D-League?

It's not like they're trying to insult him.

He'll improve by having more playing time.

Would you want to be Dr. Jerry Buss and have to negotiate with Communist officials to send one of your players down to D-League for his own benefit?

I think it's just stupid. It may be the way it is, but I reserve the right to be annoyed by it.

I'm not annoyed with Sun Yue. I'm annoyed with Communist officials.

The fact that people misinterpret that fact bothers me.

Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.

GO LAKERS!

Posted by: dave m | March 08, 2009 at 07:46 PM

I think nuts in brownies suck too.

I must say this is probably the first time I am genuinely embarrassed to be a frequent contributor/viewer of the LA Times Laker blog.

While I think Jon K. can get a little "out there" at times, there is absolutely nothing in his comment that is remotely racist. Period. To imply otherwise is "stupid" and "reactionary" (to quote AK), not to mention "divisive" and "dangerous". There is no word in the English language that is misused more than "racist".

Communism is a joke, we all know it, and apparently to say it makes me a racist as well. If that is the definition of racism then I guess I am a racist.

If the Lakers had to ask George Karl's permission when we sent Coby to the D-League, we would all laugh our a$$es off here.

AK, I don't always agree with you, but usually I respect your opinion. On this one you are either mis-reading his post, much less intelligent than I give you credit for, or seriously covering your a$$. I will give you the benefit of the doubt here and go with the first option.

As far as I am concerned this is EXACTLY the same problem we have between Americans and Muslims/Arabs. If you criticize the GOVERNMENTS of Iran, Iraq, Syria, etc. you are called a racist and accused of being anti Muslim. Government is the central issue here, not race.

If we were to substitute China with (random predominantly white country) and substitute Sun with (random predominantly white player) no one would have had a problem with his statement. I believe that is the point here.

Again there is no word in the English language that is misused more than "racist".

Jon K. I am truly embarrassed for the way you were treated here.

Jon K,

For what it's worth, if your initial comments broke your thought process down as clearly as your explanation to Kobe Blitz, I actually think there would have been less confusion and reaction from the start. What you're saying makes perfect sense, and sounds considerably less bitter about Sun.

Just throwing it out there.

AK

PsLakerfan,

"AK, I don't always agree with you, but usually I respect your opinion. On this one you are either mis-reading his post, much less intelligent than I give you credit for, or seriously covering your a$$. I will give you the benefit of the doubt here and go with the first option."

Misreading it how?

AK

Jon K,

You've been an LA Times blogger since the beginning and in that time I've learned two things about you. One, that you're extremely passionate in things and two, that you love the Lakers (obviously). So as someone who has known you (albeit through an internet community) for roughly 3 1/2 years I know that none of your comments about Sun Yue have ANYTHING to do with his race. But at the same time I do see how someone could misinterpret your comment as racist. I do think that we often live in too much of a politically correct society and we often bend over backwards not to offend someone even if our intentions are nothing close to that and I think this is one of those cases.

The Mercurial L.O.

We've all observed Odom for long enough to know what your getting. Tough to expect consistency with him all of the sudden because that's not what he does. He will rebound pretty consistently, but expecting consistent scoring, aggressive play, smart play, clutch play is not gonna happen. We know this, nothing is going to change this year. He's exactly what we thought he was. I don't think we can win the championship if he's our 3rd option, at least that was my opinion after last season and is why I wanted to trade him for Artest. My feelings haven't changed. I do like Lamar and often marvel at what could be, but I just don't like to depend on him to deliver in the biggest moments. I love him off the bench, he's a hell of a sixth man, but he's gonna break your heart if you need him to step up huge against Boston in the finals.

Get well AB.

"Finally those capatilist pigs will pay for their crimes!"

"Austin, we won"

"Oh...yay capitalism!"

I never thought I'd miss reading about how the media hates Kobe.

BK

AK,

Misreading it how?

As a moderator you are privileged to have an opinion too. However, on this issue perhaps the role of the moderator is to be the man on the middle. You attacked Jon K on his other random posts and attributed immediately blame on other issues such as this. Again, you may agree or disagree with this observation. My contention here is that there is time to opine and there is a time to moderate.

Edwin Gueco,

Fair enough. That's why I apologized to Jon.

AK

As an Asian and a very sensitive one at that, I find absolutely no offense about what you said about communism. How the heck does someone equate that with racism? Communism is not a joke though, it is a menace. Whenever anyone has to check in with their government before he/she does anything little like that, there's something seriously wrong. I would understand if the US had to ask permission to allow Sun Yue to play in Taiwan if the D-Fenders were playing a game there, but what the heck??? Are they going to have to ask the commies every time he has to make a run to In&Out? Is THAT why the Lakers were held up? If that's the case, they should should ship his sorry 3-point missing, slow footed, behind back to China where he belongs.

Chris paul signed last year a 3 year extension but next year he will be a ristrected free agent and the year after that too. 2011 free agent.

AK/BK

is your posting (other blogger's posts) selective or you r just applying the "Chinese Communist Censorship" method?!

Please Laker Fan dont fight with each other ... save your energy for trols like me!

Jon K,

I did agree with you that it was absurd that Mitch had to go through many officials in China to get Sun to even sent to the D-League when others such as Jordan and Coby Karl didn't encounter as much problems.

And I can understand your desire to win the title. I really do and all Laker fans here do want to win the title.

As I said before why bag on Sun when he gets few if any playing time? Most teams use at most 10 (non-blow out games) players during a game and Sun got few playing time even when Jordan was out. There are a few roster spots that won't get that much playing time and Sun is one of them. Why criticize and label Sun as "experiments" when there is nothing negative for them being on the bench save perhaps for money (and Sun is making less than 400k though many of us would be earning that)? If it works out then great if not then it won't. Sun hasn't gotten any playing time and was kinda like Sasha back in his rookie season: sparse playing time. Now Sasha to a degree is contributing (his defense is still overrated) and did help out Kobe in Game 3 of the Finals. Give them a chance and well we were so dismissive of Von Wafer before. Now look at him.

Sun has gotten 11 points and 7 assists in his first D-League and while his shooting % was something to be improved on he did well considering he's been playing very times this year. He could really do well in the D-League and be a contributer for the Lakers if he does well down there.

The Lakers wanted to send Sun into the D-League for a while but like you said the officials in China were reluctant and finally relented. And now he's got a chance to improve.

If you are just bagging on the Chinese officials who didn't want to send Sun to the D-League and not on Sun then I have no problem with that and I'll stand by you when something like this happens to you.

The real positive of this anyways is that Sun hopefully will not get lost trying to find an In and Out that will make the Lakers tired when they arrive in whatever city they are playing and having them coming out flat.

-KB Blitz

whowwwww

just watched the post game interview after sacto beat denver tonite. they were interviewing hawes and asked him about garcia who has a broken? middle finger on his shooting hand. i'm not trying to read to much into it, maybe it was a jab at kobe or not, but he said:

it's not like he has his LITTLE finger broken and he was heroic.

denver just ended on the 6th place. with portland and dallas they will try to fight the Funs out of the playoffs. tomorrow they host houston who had an easy game vs. memphis and an early flight to denver.

the last 5-6 places in the west will become a massacre zone for the next 18-20 games remaining. all these teams will play each the for the rest of the season.

Outlaw-
I said if LO and the bench dont play well or step it up we cant win on the road in the playoffs. (utah,portland,spurs) I do believe in the Lakers (kobe, Paul&BYNUM) alot but LO+Bench MOB i dont know so much. (road wise) All i know is IF we make it to the Finals We will win beat any team but IF IF IF IF)

Why is Jon K. attacking "Red" China?

I guess the PC police are out patrolling the blog tonight. Political correctness is not a bad thing unless it's taken to the extreme - and that's where it's been taken here. I had no idea that bashing communism can be interpreted as racist.

Oh well...what can you say when a Congressman accuses Southern governors of being racist for refusing to accept "stimulus" funds from the federal govt? I fully expect Al Sharpton to call for a protest of Jon K's blog posts any moment now.

So really, no birthday wishes for Sasha? Ultra cold on his 25th birthday.

At today's practice, PJ said the Lakers haven't won at the Rose Garden since Portland was the Jailblazers because the rain is depressing. Is that racist?

Good a time as any to change the subject, I think.

How about... What would be a successful roadie? Portland, Houston, SA? Two of three? We cool with that?

BK

Wow.

Aint nothing like someone cashing in on the 'Ive been Bloggin for X amount of time card'...funny ive been apart of this blog "signed up or not" for x amount of years also and i never recieved my customary Im a Blog Elder Card...were i can on occasions wip it out as a means of gettin respect that due when i lose control of my brain to mouth mechanism.

Darn betta check the mail.....

Anna - we are a little understood society, but growing in numbers. Don't let anyone on this blog say that nutless brownie lovers suck, or there will be some serious words exchanged.

Celtics lost to the Magic today. Rajon Rondo did not play due to that ankle injury while backing out and tripped himself last Friday.Today, Marbury played for 21 mins. got only 4 pts. while House for 30 mins made only 5 pts. It appears that Marbury is not ready yet to replace Rondo. As such, the objective in taking him is not working yet. I prefer our Shannon Brown, I just hope Craig Hodges will turn him into a sharp shooter.

So is LO a concern or not?

KB blitz,

regarding Horace Grant, you wrote:
He didn't play center most times if you watch not only Bulls games but also Lakers game he played PF.

regarding Horace Grant, you also wrote:
Horace was strong enough to play center even at age 38 in his last year with the Lakers!

So, why did you take exception to me
referring to Horace Grant as a PF/C
and then talk about him being strong
enough to play C?

re: comparing HG to JP. I brought this
up because your reasons for not making
the comparable are bogus. False. In
error. You used size & strength as
reasons why HG was superior. Size
has been *factually* shown to be an
erroneous criteria. Your opinion of
strength is subjective and cannot be
shown either for or against. i.e. You
can not show how strong HG was at
any particular time nor can you show
how strong JP is right now.

You used rebounding as a criteria and
I have factually shown that JP's
rebounding numbers are actually
comparable to HG's, courtesy of
basketball-reference.com.

You used FG% to show that HG was
better than JP and the numbers show
they are within 10% of each other.
Therefore, your use of FG% as criteria
to show that they are not comparable
is factually incorrect.

There are only two reasons why they
are not comparable and you have not
mentioned either.

1. Minutes played.
2. Accolades.

In case my reasoning has escaped your
attention, I will explicitly state it.

JP's FT%, Rebounding & FG% indicate
that given the same opportunities that
HG had, JP will function in a similar
fashion. Since he has/will not had/have
the minutes, he will not get the numbers nor the accolades.

you also wrote: You are so a homer for the young Laker dudes and will never criticize them

my response: Actually, a couple of
days ago, I said I might be wrong about
Sasha. I have never ignored their
mistakes. I have acknowledged that
they're young and they're growing in
knowledge. If you had been here long
enough, you'd have noticed that I was
critical of Smush, a young Laker,
because he was a bonehead. I don't
believe in criticizing players because
they're young and learning. That's what
young players are supposed to do. I
criticize veterans who should know
better and don't. I have acknowledged
the mistakes of Kobe, Fisher, Pau &
Lamar. I have also clearly stated that
Kobe, Fisher & Pau get passes, because
9 out of 10 they make good plays. LO
doesn't get the pass because he makes
bad plays 5 out of 10 times. To say it
differently, because the earlier
statement is hyperbole, Lamar's
inconsistency is different/worse than the
other Lakers' and unacceptable. For
further clarification please look at
box scores from the last 3 games.


ejk/socalife,

this was written: Comparing Horace Grant and Josh Powell is pretty silly at this point. Horace was one of the best post defenders in the league for a long time, including his time with the Lakers. His defense, rebounding and shooting was one of the major reasons why we were able to sweep through the 2001 playoffs.

my response: I wouldn't disagree with
you about the defensive part at all. JP
is comparable in rebounding and
shooting per numbers via
basketball-reference.com. The question,
which can not be answered, but should
be asked is: If JP gets the minutes will
he develop into something close to HG?
To be honest, I have no idea. However,
I think his numbers support him being
given a chance. Unfortunately, he's
playing behind Pau & Lamar.

I will refrain from making remarks about Sun Yue's hot supermodel girlfriend, Gu Chen, lest I be accused of being sexist....

 
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