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The 61 Followup

After the Garden-record 61 points dropped on the Knicks Monday might, everyone is wondering if an encore is in the works.  It could come from newest contestant LeBron James, who just happens to be in New York this evening.  (FYI to the party planners.  If LBJ hits 62+ and a shindig will commemorate, if guests are patted down, you apparently need not invite Diddy.)  According to the King, the game's endgame is about the "W," not topping the current title holder, one Kobe Bryant. 

And speaking of The Mamba, does he have similar tricks up his sleeve at the expense of the Toronto Raptors?  If so, Phil Jackson would love a heads up before the opening tip.  He'd also love a Plan B, as a sustained tear of such magnitude could leave Kobe's mates in the lurch.  And every Laker needs to be contributing tonight and especially tomorrow, since their East coast hosts happen to be on a roll.  Frankly, the Boston matchup could be the rare game where Trevor Ariza demands Kobe give him the ball. 

Interesting notion floated by the Daily News' Tom Hoffarth.  Was 61 better than 81 purely because of the venue?

OTHER NOTES

 
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Pfunk,

I personally think Phil Jackson is one of the greatest coaches ever in the NBA. I think he is superb at building a team and using the Triangle Offense to instill a chemistry and system that favors sharing and moving the ball, which is the best formula to victory.

I also think he is exceptional in getting all of his players, superstars like MJ and KB included, to buy into his system and play team ball. And he does a great job at defining each player’s role in the system and setting expectations for them to perform.

I do find lots to complain about with respect to Phil’s substitution patterns as well as his love for certain players who are personal projects, ala Smush and Kwame. While Phil always talks about matchups, he rarely forces his players to give the ball to certain players in situations where they have a great matchup, preferring instead for them to learn that that is the way to win and to do it by second nature. I think that is why we so often have complaints that the team does not pound the ball inside when they have the advantage.

I also find Phil to be very poor drawing up plays to score when time is running out. And too often he puts players in situations where they are the best option, such as Luke or Trevor inbounding the ball on key plays or drawing up a play for Lamar at games end. Of course, Phil always has the backup that he was trying to improve the player by giving them a chance. The problem is that this excuse, while often valid and true, also covers up many errors of judgment and bias for or against certain players, which is true of all coaches.

Bottom line, Phil does not like big scoring games and feels they are not conducive to good team play and sharing the ball. He does realize, however, that Kobe does need to go off every once in a while to keep his edge and he does realize that this can give other teams nightmares worrying that Kobe will go off on them. In the end, I will live with these weird aspects of Phil’s coaching because bottom line they have proven to somehow work.

Personally, I would prefer to see the Laker run more pick and rolls and screens and cuts to get Kobe easy jumpers like the Bulls did for MJ. I would also like to see Phil NOT pull the hot shooter out of the game. Blitz quoted from Phil’s books that he never pulls the hot shooter. Phil may have written it but I really think he would prefer to have the team share the ball than to have Kobe or Drew dominate, which I do not agree with. I am old school in the sense that you find the other team’s weakness and attack it until they adjust. It doesn’t matter whether it is Saturday at the gym and you’re trying to hold court all day or you’re the LA Lakers challenging to win the NBA championship. Feed the hot hand.

JMNSHBO!

Tom

From the diddy article:
[At least Bryant was happy to be patted down and stayed until 4 a.m. "He was in the VIP area, where there were strict orders not to let any women in near him," we're told.]

Looks like someone learnt their colorado lesson ... lol

I love this PJ quote:

"I talked to [Bryant] after the game and said, 'Why don't you let me know when you're going to go off like that before a ballgame so we can measure it out accordingly?'

AK and BK,

The Celtic's Blog @ the Boston Globe that was in a thread on here before the Christmas game is holding a live chat with Eddie House for it's readers today.

Do you think it will ever be possible to invite one of the Lakers on here to Chat?

hog

That quote about winning, not stats, by Lebron is too funny.

Because it implies 1) That Lebron could score 60 if he "wanted to", and 2) That Kobe's scoring is detrimental to the team winning. 2 is a weaker impliciation than 1, but the first that he "Could" score that much if he wanted to is laughable. Of course Lebron could score 60 plus - if totally didn't care about winning and he took 40 shots and could make his free throws - but it's not like Kobe sacrifices winning just to score a lot of points! Notice how the Lakers have WON in the four times Kobe has scored 60 plus. Have the Lakers ever LOST when Kobe scores more than 60? So what's the big brouhaha?

Canibus,

No promises, but it's something we'd love to make happen at some point. It's just not always easy.

AK

I wrote that Kobe had won all four games that he has scored 60 plus. It's actually 5 games that he has now gone undefeated in scoring 60 plus. For some perspective, MJ lost 3 of the 5 games in which he went for 60 plus. Now before everyone gets in a huff to defend the quality of MJ's games, I just point that out because wouldn't there be more reason to write an article about "MJ shouldn't score 60 because his team loses more often than not"? It would still be ridiculous, but my point is that there is no reason for the worry about Kobe sacrificing team for his individual scoring.

Larry Hughes . . .

Hmmmmmm . . .

Maybe a Laker if they buy him out? They Lakers have a roster spot, and dude can play the 2/3.

Anyone?

AK ...

I'm not so sure inviting a laker to chat is a good idea ... you get Ariza and it's probably all good ... you invite Luke and you might have your laker press pass revoked, can't imagine the dude ever wanting to speak to you again if you subject him to the blogs opinion of him ...

Amazing_Happens ...

I love Kobe 2 death but boredome dictates I point out a fallacy in your argument ... PJs concern might not necessarily be the #of points scored but the # of shots taken ... so instead of you saying Kobe is 5-0 when he scores 60+, how bout you let us know his record when he takes 30+ shots in a ball game

Good morning Mamba24 & morning CRUE!

Game day. I want another Extinction Level Event to go down in the great white north tonight.

I REALLY (REALLY) wish these so-called journalists would eat crap & die. I'm really sick of all the negative articles about Kobe & the spewing of Laker hate.

How in the world do these idiots get these jobs??? There are so many talented writers on here who know the difference between biased statements & calling a spade a spade - I wish they were writing these high-profile columns. At least you know it would be a fair commentary.

Then again - who said life was fair? My plan of action is to NOT read any of the stuff these guys churn out. It gets my blood pressure to boiling and you know that can't be good. Gotta save the high levels of anxiety for the game!

GO LAKERS!

I saw a trade suggested on an espn blog today that both repulsed
and appealed to me, so I couldn't help bringing it up here...

Bynum for Bosh.

Of course it doesn't work straight up, since Bynum is PPP. Lamar
would have to be thrown in to make it work, and that makes it a
much more disruptive trade. It's hard to make the salaries balance
even with that, but what would you think of this:

Bynum, Odom, and Mihm
for Bosh, Bargnani, and Anthony Parker

Yes, it would be giving up Bynum. But it would be getting
Bosh. And having him for the finals. And presumably Bargnani
and Parker could play some productive minutes as well.


Repost from previous thread so RLC doesn't miss it:

"Kobe gets motivated to score 61 points to deflect attention"

How do you know that? Are you in his head? Did he tell you that?

All Kobe haters and Laker haters do is assume a bunch of BS that reinforces their points of view. You don't know Kobe's motivation. He hasn't trashed Bynum in almost two years, and you think you know his state of mind, today? You've never changed your mind or opinion about anything? What should Kobe say about Bynum's injury that the tape doesn't show? He already apologized to Andrew about it and has stated how terrible he feels. You only want to hear what you want to hear. You want Kobe to admit things that he never will, and make assumptions about his character that are completely unfounded.

He's gonna tear the Celtics a new one on Thursday.

You're as deluded as anyone else. I can't wait for the Lakers to shut the Celtics up AGAIN and then watch the beantown bullies go back on a skid and end up in their rightful place. LOSERS.

I personally think Sasha would be totally hilarious on the blog, but that's just me. We could get him all riled up about the C's.

I also think Pau would be phenomenal but that's probably asking too much. Kobe is too much to dream for. LO might be OK. Jordan would be a good person to have. Trevor seems to have trouble getting his words out in a public forum, so probably not him. Luke - meh. Rad - no!! The people not really playing - no. Although I might like to hear Mbenga speak, it wouldn't be on basketball topics.

Can't wait to watch our team tonight!!

GO LAKERS!!!!!!
KILL TORONTO!!!!!!!!!!
Let's see balanced scoring (although you can bet the 81 pt's and 61 pts will come up), lots of D, and great ball movement!!!!!

cannibus hog,

>>>Do you think it will ever be possible to invite one of the
>>>Lakers on here to Chat?

Yeah, and if you do, be sure to make it Luke, as that would
be the most interesting chat (though maybe not so fun for
Luke :-)

This may be a tough game for Boston if KG isnt playing...though im sure he will pull himself out the gutter to play this game (Which i hope he does play) But if he doesnt expect to hear every excuse one can conjure up if we win!

Hi All - GAME DAY! GO LAKERS!

I LOVE the Ding article - that's the type of team insight that the KBros can start adding to the mix since you added Ben the Intern. Get to work on the scoop KBros - now that you have your lackey.

Cheers!

Love how Trevor hates the Celtics. LOVE IT.

You go boy. Show them what they didn't see last year and see if they still say you'll have no impact on the game like they did when you weren't quite back from the injury. Oh wait - you kind of already showed them what you can do on Christmas, that's right.

HA!

GO LAKERS!

Justa - great post. I'm so right there with you.

Good job man.

"Let them eat crap" will be our mantra from now on.

GO LAKERS!

LakerTom,

Great insights into Phil. He's intellectually dishonest at times, but he does have a master plan that results in a very strong TEAM later in the playoffs. He also has the cred to get players to do what he says which is huge in this league.


LTLF,

I hate that trade. It's way disruptive to the team and I don't really see it improving us. Bargnani is way too weak for our team. He'll give Kobe a heart attack.

I love Bosh, but I don't trade him for Bynum. I like developing the big guy and I want to hold onto his potential. Unlike that traitor JA Adande, I don't think this is Kobe's last chance for a title.

Now, Bynum for Dwight Howard? I do that trade in a heartbeat. But I digress as obviously Toronto is the only team blowing up.

I'd do bosh for Odom and filler in a heartbeat. We'd probably need to trade one of Gasol, Bosh and Bynum after that, but it's not really a problem I'm too concerned about. We could probably trade Bosh for someone like Gerald Wallace even.

If a team in the other conference is willing to make some big trades, it would be remiss for the Kupcake to not float a few deals. He probably has.

Stat question. What is the Laker record over the last two years when Kobe has 8 or more assists?

I would say Kobe averaging over 8 assists a game is still the key for this team winning a championship.

REPOST:

Red.

You are on my official starvation list. Your inability to accept facts and truth are becoming tiresome and boring as well as time consuming.

Already talking about trading bynumb?

The lakers should have listened to BUTLER last summer and not given the injury-prone wobbly kneed youngster a huge deal!

No one in their right mind would take on such a crippling contract, especially when money is growing scarcer by the day.

I think Shack is smelling like a rose, on the other hand.

Taliq,

>>>... so instead of you saying Kobe is 5-0 when he scores
>>>60+, how bout you let us know his record when he takes
>>>30+ shots in a ball game

Fair enough. I'm not going to take the time to scan through
14 years of games to find all the 30 shot games, but for this
season, Kobe is 2 and 2 when he's taken 30 shots - lost to Detroit
and Orlando, beat Houston and New York. Note that if he'd
have taken 1 more shot in Orlando instead of passing to Sasha
(who barely missed), the Lakers might have won that game.

But since you are broadening the concept, I'll broaden it even
further:

WHY did the player (Kobe or Michael) take 30 or more shots
in those games?

Were one or more teammates injured and they felt compelled
to increase their scoring to make up the slack? Certainly
that was the case for the New York (Bynum) and Houston
(Sasha, Farmar) games.

Were his teammates shooting poorly, and he tried to take over
to get his team back in the game? In Orlando, Bynum shot
1 for 4, odom shot 1-for-7, and Ariza shot 2-for-6. In fact, Bynum
was having trouble getting a shot off at all against Howard. In the Detroit game, Fisher was 4-for-16 and Vlad
was 1-for-6.

You've got to realize that guys like Kobe and Michael don't
ever want to lose any game... EVER. So if it's looking like a
bad night or if one or more teammates are out, they're going
to do what they think is most likely to get the team a win.

I'll wager BOTH Kobe and Michael have more losses than
wins when they shoot 30+ times a game. But you have the
cause and effect backwards. If you look at the situation of
each individual game, you will find that it was the loss (or
the potential for a loss) that caused them to take more shots,
not the other way around.

Taliq,

>>>... so instead of you saying Kobe is 5-0 when he scores
>>>60+, how bout you let us know his record when he takes
>>>30+ shots in a ball game

Fair enough. I'm not going to take the time to scan through
14 years of games to find all the 30 shot games, but for this
season, Kobe is 2 and 2 when he's taken 30 shots - lost to Detroit
and Orlando, beat Houston and New York. Note that if he'd
have taken 1 more shot in Orlando instead of passing to Sasha
(who barely missed), the Lakers might have won that game.

But since you are broadening the concept, I'll broaden it even
further:

WHY did the player (Kobe or Michael) take 30 or more shots
in those games?

Were one or more teammates injured and they felt compelled
to increase their scoring to make up the slack? Certainly
that was the case for the New York (Bynum) and Houston
(Sasha, Farmar) games.

Were his teammates shooting poorly, and he tried to take over
to get his team back in the game? In Orlando, Bynum shot
1 for 4, odom shot 1-for-7, and Ariza shot 2-for-6. In fact, Bynum
was having trouble getting a shot off at all against Howard. In the Detroit game, Fisher was 4-for-16 and Vlad
was 1-for-6.

You've got to realize that guys like Kobe and Michael don't
ever want to lose any game... EVER. So if it's looking like a
bad night or if one or more teammates are out, they're going
to do what they think is most likely to get the team a win.

I'll wager BOTH Kobe and Michael have more losses than
wins when they shoot 30+ times a game. But you have the
cause and effect backwards. If you look at the situation of
each individual game, you will find that it was the loss (or
the potential for a loss) that caused them to take more shots,
not the other way around.

If you believe Kobe's (or Michael's) taking more shots caused
the loss, then you probably believe that because it warmed
up in the morning, the sun came up. It was the warmth that
caused the sun to come up.

Already talking about trading bynumb?

The lakers should have listened to BUTLER last summer and not given the injury-prone wobbly kneed youngster a huge deal!

No one in their right mind would take on such a crippling contract, especially when money is growing scarcer by the day.

I think Shack is smelling like a rose, on the other hand.

LakerTom

I am not totally against the triangle offense or Phil Jackson per se, My problem with Phil and the triangle is that Phil doesn't know when to make adjustments with this offense in this new day of "zone" defenses.

Teams like Boston and Cleveland that overload the strongside on defense are susceptible to a strategy. Sometimes that strategy should include coming out of the triangle offense and utilize the greatest offensive force in the league.

Last year in the finals during that historic breakdown when the Lakers lost a 20 point lead, Phil just sat there....I don't even think he called a timeout during that stretch. Even Tex Winter the great author of the triangle said Phil should have come out of the triangle and attack Boston differently.

The bottom line is I don't see Phil as a great strategist that can think on his feet, I see him as a relic frozen in the past, unwilling and incapable of adjusting to what works.

If the Lakers win a championship it will not be because of him but in spite of him..... just as Kobe ignored him in New York the other night.

Masters of their craft that expand eras and still have appeal are constantly adjusting and changing to fit the times. I love a Master like jazz great Miles Davis because if you lay down his records from the 60's, 70's, and 80's you will find that each album takes you to a different place. You would very rarely find Miles playing "Kool Jazz" of the 50's and 60's later in his life because he was incorporating hip-hop with be-bop toward the end of his life.

If Phil Jackson was a musician he would be upset that the kids no longer play "Kool Jazz" and would try to force them to do so instead of mixing Kool Jazz with hip hop and creating something new to fit the times

That's my opinion

LTLF

Interesting trade but the Lakers don't need Bosh offense, they need the bully at the rim. LBJ remembers lookin' up from the floor. KG remembers being outsized underneath. Best of all, he was startin' to get ref cred which is the most important come April... assuming he's back in April which I am.

Now, Pau for Bosh would be an interesting "never gonna happen trade". With his mid range game, he might be a better fit with Andrew. Maybe Mitch can pull off a miraculous LO for Bosh and trash trade.

Pfunk36,

As you brought up "Kind of Blue, I thought you might enjoy this.

http://tinyurl.com/dbuu5b

AK

I wish we had the Birdman right about now. Aside from having the most awesome nickname in the NBA, dude's a hell of a player and would have been a nice energy and D replacement for Turiaf. Not hating on Powell, but he's no Birdman. Who is?

Sorry if someone already posted this, but it's too good not to mention again.

Kevin Ding, OCRegister: "[Trevor Ariza] hates the Celtics. You know Vujacic does, but Ariza really does and always has. He even hates the Red Sox and the Patriots. Ariza, 23, and Pierce, 31, are both Inglewood cats who grew up near The Forum and loving the Lakers, and whereas Pierce has made a nice life for himself in Boston, Ariza would rather break his foot all the way through than ever be a Celtic. [...] Ariza had a white No. 32 Celtics jersey and a Sharpie marker in his Lakers locker, and he had gotten Kevin McHale's autograph on it. What the ...? No way did Ariza want it for himself. He was just too good a friend to say no to the request for a favor. He was, in fact, too sickened by the whole process to do it himself, so he asked a Target Center locker-room attendant to go get the signature from the guy far more famous for being a Celtics legend than the Timberwolves' coach. 'I'm ashamed,' Ariza said. 'I am. I'm ashamed.'"


You gotta really love this Ariza cat.

I may be critical with Bynum work ethic on other sports but I will not recommend any kind of trade that involves him. What we need is not a trade but a hammer on his knees to make them durable. They are weak because of junk foods. LOL!

Lakers are winning LTLF & Butler are talking trades. Get used to their posts, it will never be a complete post if there are no trade scenarios.

Awesome write up of the Kobe's "Roger Maris" game at the 20second timeout blog : http://tinyurl.com/20second

As for Taliq - I'll just refer you to Little White Statistics (not racial, just a play "little white lies") http://tinyurl.com/kobeshots

Here's their conclusion (but read the whole thing if you want the whole argument) :

"First of all, it’s true that Kobe averages more shots in losses than wins - four more shots per loss than per win. It’s also true, however, that Kobe averages more minutes in losses then wins - by about 4 minutes. With his shooting rate (a bit under 22 shots/game overall), that difference automatically accounts for about 2 shots per game, meaning that - balanced for minutes - Kobe averages closer to 21 shots per game in losses. That pretty much immediately throws out the 20-shot cut-off used by Reina. But, that’s still more shots per game in losses then wins.

Then we considered the fact that blowouts are special instances in which Kobe’s statistics are drastically off. 18 times during the season, the Lakers blew out their opponents by more than 12 points while Kobe played below-average minutes. Only one time were the Lakers blown out in similar fashion with Kobe playing below-average minutes. Averaging without those games, we discover the same thing we discovered above: that Kobe only averages 2 shots less per win than per loss."

AND

"The Lakers are not better off when Kobe doesn’t shoot as much, despite him averaging fewer shots in wins than losses. Instead, The Lakers depend on Kobe to lift them over their opponents in competitive games. Therefore, Kobe’s shot attempts increase in competitive games compared to non-competitive games. Naturally, the Lakers also are more likely to lose competitive games than non-competitive games. "

Again, the linked page should be required reading for any Lakers fan.

And LTLF - you are right in your theories about Kobe and volume shooting, as shown in the "Little White Statistics" link I put earlier. The guy did his homework, and I'm glad for it!

Question for the blog:

If you were FORCED to choose a three month injury at the time AB went down for one of the big three, who would you choose:

Kobe
Pau
Andrew

Out of the three, who would you miss the least?

Curious for your responses:

Good Morning Charles...Good Morning Everyone...

focus, intensity, purpose, steller defense, great free throwing, and rebounding---there you have--it's all I want for the rest of the week (and maybe beyond)...

Mihm and Powell need to play some meaningful minutes tonight and tomorrow and Sunday---let's use our depth..

"carve your number on my wall"

"did someone say matress?"

AS ALWAYS, AS EVER, YET ANOTHER GREAT DAY (AND SEASON) TO BE A LAKER FAN !!!

GO LAKERS !!!

Josh Powell for Jason Thompson!

Josh Powell is gooood. Now PJ should involve Mihm on the inside for few minutes while Sasha and Vlad on the outside. Lakers are unbeatable when all cylinders are normal and functional. But when one cylinder is dead, the other four are affected. While Bynum is out, these are the chances of Mihm, Powell and Vlad to shine and contribute. If Bynum is playing they will forever rut on NBA team benches and develop hemorrhoids, bs'ing w/ Gary Vitti or entertaining Kobe when he's resting or will never get tired of embracing and giving low fives.. I don't know w/ Mbenga, he's just sight seeing tour in every city they visit. LOL!

Laker Tom,

great post about Jackson and what you would like to see the Lakers run more---took the thoughts right our of my head...

GO LAKERS !!!

Benjamin,

Thanks for the kind words and good to hear from you again. Your description of Phil was right on. As you said, he is “intellectually dishonest at times, but does have a master plan that results in a very strong TEAM later in the playoffs.” And I agree that he “also has the street cred to get players to do what he says which is huge in this league.”

I thought your dad was the psychologist but you do a pretty fair job yourself. At any rate, despite the frustrations, I wouldn’t want any other coach coaching this team. While I think Phil has held Andrew back at times, overall I give him great credit for the way Drew has worked his butt off to become as great a player as he is already at just 21 years old. We were fortunate to have a young man in Drew who really has his head screwed on right.

Thanks again for chiming in.

Tom

Trevor Ariza: One of my favorite Lakers. And I love that he hates the Celtics so much. That's fantastic.

You know what else I love? That the Suns--Butler's preseason pick for most improved "defensive" team--are 19th in defensive efficiency. That's awesome. I guess Terry Porter has really made an impact. Kinda like when Harris went off for 50 on them. Great defense, indeed.

Go Lake Show!

Hmm seems that pfunk wants to bring up the "the great zone defenses of today" and you hobbit even decided to credit zone defenses read this:

Defenses of today suck compared to the 90's and the 80's.

Clyde "The Glyde" Drexler was asked how he would do without handchecking and rough play of today and he responded:

"Oh, tremendously better from shooting percentage to points per game everything would be up and our old teams would that is saying something because we could score a lot back then. I do think there should be an asterisk next to some of these scoring leaders because it is much different trying to score with a forearm in your face. It is harder to score with that resistance. You had to turn your back on guys defending you back in the day with all the handchecking that was going on. For guys who penetrate these days it's hunting season. Yes, now you now can play zone, but teams rarely do."

Zones allow defenders to play an area, rather than stick to a man. I don't know about you, but I prefer playing against a zone because it is so much easier to find space in a zone if you are good at working without the ball. When you are facing man to man it requires that you run your defender into screens, and it requires more effort to create space.

Also keep in mind that with no contact rules, it does not matter if you double or triple a player in today's game, the great players should be able to back out, slip out, split, slip through, or shake the double. I mean hell, if the offensive player draws contact he's gonna draw a foul anyways. It's not like the old days where you actually had to fight through traps and double teams.

The only way to seal off penetration today is to get directly in the path of the ball handler with both feet planted, outside of the circle in the paint, to get credit for drawing a charge. Now keep in mind that the offensive player already has the advantage of decision; defenders have no choice but to react, it puts the defender at a 1/4 a second disadvantage anyways. 80's and 90's utilized handchecking, which is similar to what offensive linemen & defensive backs use in the NFL to detain receivers and pass rushers. In the NFL, allow a pass rusher to penetrate the pocket, it's a sack. A defensive back lets the receiver penetrate the secondary & catch the ball, first down or TD. In the NBA, allow players to penetrate the paint, it makes it easier for them to score. At the very least physical resistance should be offered to make it a level playing field. This is not allowed in today's game. Of course in any era, under any rules, there are defensive breakdowns among other factors that can contribute to non-contested shots. There are those players who are able to shake defenders in such a fashion that it doesn't matter if you double, or triple them, they are gonna get loose.

In other words: Triangle offense when played properly would BUST these "advanced zone defenses" of today even more than it did against the Chuck Daly/Pat Riley defenses of the 80's/90's.

-Kobeblitz

0 boards on a night where Kobe goes for 61, That's acceptable. Whats not acceptable is leaving a 2000 dolla tip after only ordering 2 bottles of the bubbly.

Who? Trevor Ariza?

Sorry, he`s not even on the Celtics` radar screen.

Wait a minute, he DID play against Boston on xmas day.

Yeah, he was the guy who scored 2 points and pulled down 1 rebound in nearly 19 minutes of action that day!

Is he still in the league....and, if so, why?

Again with your "worked over his game over the summer" crap you bring up Hobbit.

Jeez if you were coaching the Kobe-Shaq Lakers you would go insane with dealing with Shaq and that isn't just the summer, he did it before games too.

I guess that's the reason why you AREN'T the Coach of the Lakers since you would rail Shaq so much yet Jackson did not do so as much yet he coaxed 3 championships despite Shaq being like that 2 out of the 3 years and yet Shaq got the Finals MVP 3 times. I trust Phil more than you really anyways when it comes to the Lakers.

-Kobeblitz

I'm surprised by the trade Bynum talk here. Check out lakers.com, Bynum interview, and you'll see something about this young man we can all emulate...he operates at an even keel.

LONG LIVE CHICK-

The only reason I would pick anyone besides Bynum to go down with an injury is becuase his healing process is very slow compared to Pau, Farmar and especially Kobe.


AK

Thanks for that Miles Link, I own "Kind of Blue" which has my favorite Miles song "So What" but my Older brother would play "Bitches Brew" in the 70's when he was growing up and lately I would play them back to back.........It's hard to believe it's the same artist. He must have been on some powerful shhhhhh when he wrote that one. LOL

Kobeblitz:

Clyde was wrong when he said "Yes, now you now can play zone, but teams rarely do."

They may not play a straight up zone, but they are definitely not playing one-on-one.

Go back and watch those 80s and 90s games, and see how late the defense comes to help. BECAUSE THEY WEREN'T DOUBLE OR EVEN CHEAT OFF OF THE BALL.

That's worth a lot more than hand-checking.

Nowadays, smart defenders have taken advantage of the fact that you can cheat toward the player with the ball, if you so desire. That half-second makes all the difference between being able to alter a shot and being too late.

As for rough play in the 80s and 90s, yes there were rougher fouls that weren't called for flagrants, but overall defense was a LOT softer in terms of guys giving other guys space instead of the "banging" you see today in the low post.

Another common refrain in talking about the 80s an 90s is to reference only the TOP defenders. Yes the top players and defenders were great. But the AVERAGE player of today is leaps and bounds better than the AVERAGE player of 20 years ago. Simple progress along with the popularity of the sport dictates that. There are more teams, but the pool of players have grown as well. There are D-Leaguers today who could have made significant contribution to the teams of the 80s and 90s.

Go back to the video instead of using your memory and/or just looking at highlights and you'll see how the game has advanced.

One more thing- handchecking is not dead. It gets called sometimes yes, but it still happens an awful lot.

Case by Case Analysis: Field goals made possible by the Triangle Offense versus that of Isolation play.

Why??: Because people decide to say "The triangle works if you hit outside shots" and yet I have repeated myself TONS of times it works with BALL MOVEMENT and the fact people harp on Phil Jackson being a moron and "limiting Kobe Bryant" (and has done so too to Farmar and to Bynum or whoever is their favorite player). So I put in the effort to compare 2 videos of Kobe Bryant this year. One will be the Boston game on Christmas where Ball Movement was emphasized and the other where Kobe was mono y mono more. Like I said before I won't comment on non Kobe plays unless they are AMAZING(even Kobe's fastbreak I won't comment on since for Kobe he will hit those most times) or emphasized the points about the Triangle offense. The point is the difference between ball movement and relying on isolation play.

Celtics Christmas Game: http://tinyurl.com/8bslue

0:20-BALL MOVEMENT. Basic Fundamental of the Triangle Offense. Kobe could have penetrated but he didn't. He passied to Gasol who passed it to Luke who passed it to a WIDE OPEN Derek Fisher. That's how the Triangle works at its best.

0:30-Alley oop to Kobe. Just a smart recognition of how to attack in transition.

0:59-Isolation play to Kobe but smart pass to Walton since Kobe's on the block.

1:08-Smart play by both Walton and Kobe. Walton sets the screen on Kobe's man and frees up Kobe. Kobe moves where Pau can pass it to him and Kobe is free to take an open jumper. Another example of scoring as a result of the Triangle.

1:18-Isolation play by Kobe but he had secured himself in the inside before. Hits it with ease.

1:30-Isolation play by Kobe. Celtics big men for odd reason don't bother to even contest the shot. Strange. They probably didn't expect him to be able to do that. Come on, even the Greenies aren't that dumb.

1:40-Another Iso for Kobe. He has single coverage but he easily shoots over Tony Allen.

1:49-Transition play. Celtics aren't set. More of Kobe recognizing the Celtics weren't exactly set and he drives and penetrates and gets an easy 2.

2:00-My Favorite play of that game aside from Trevor's last dunk. Enough said.

2:35-Kobe isolation but again he has secured better position inside.

3:10-Triangle offense created play for Walton. Yes he did hit that shot but HOW DID HE GET THE BALL? Ball movement. Even if he missed just goes to show how BALL MOVEMENT creates more open shots.

3:19-Cutting to the basket. Another essense of the Triangle offense. Nice pass from Walton. Mama there goes that man.

3:44-Dribble penetration when successful creates open shots. Kobe open. Easy 3.

3:50-You would expect to say Kobe isolation. Not so fast. Pau cutting into the lane and wide open too. Kobe passes it to Pau and Pau has no real resistance. Just like what Tex Winter calls it "The Path of least resistance": The Triangle Offense.

4:36-Lamar's first 3 was just a pass from Derek. His second one was a result of the triangle offense. Pau was being guarded by Perkins but Lamar moved into a position that made Pau blocking Garnett. Lamar may not be the shooter that Kobe/Rad/Derek are but he can hit threes.

4:43-Watch Lamar Odom he cuts into the basket. Kobe then cuts to get the pass from Trevor. When Kobe got the ball he was open. Tony Allen gets off the screen from Lamar had set from his previous cut and charges through Kobe. Kobe fakes him up and shoots after for an easy bucket.

5:00-This one time is so remnicent of the Finals. But Kobe was in more of a groove so he hit that shot over the contest of the Celtics.

5:05-The Cut of Bynum. Doesn't matter if it was Bynum or not because a wide open man will usually hit the dunk most times (maybe not Kwa-may Brown). Garnett recognizes the cut and helps out to seal that opening. However, that leaves Pau more wide open. Kobe may be taking over this game but is still using the triangle to perfection. Because Bynum's cut was taken away, that made other people open with least resistance and Pau makes a good basket. Triangle run play.

5:16-There are now more Kobe type plays aka Screen and Rolls. First screen of Bynum fails. So does the 2nd one by Pau at first. However Pau recognizes the double of Kobe by Garnett. He makes a dive into the basket and Kobe recognizes that. Who says finesse doesn't work? Pau's skill gets the floater above Perkins. Triangle is being run here!

5:27-Who says Kobe can't dominate and still be within the Triangle? Walton cut into the basket may have brought more defenders in Kobe's cut but again Garnett recognizes the cutter and goes to Walton since Pierce went to Kobe to take a charge. That leaves Pau open and he could have passed it to Fish for a WIDE OPEN 3. Instead he takes inside and gets the blocking foul on Pierce along with the bucket.

5:49-My 2nd favorite play on that game.

6:13-Kobe isolation. He gets it stripped but he manages to get it back and lays it in. Easy.

Knicks Game (61 points): http://tinyurl.com/cnfwku

:07-Isolation play vs Wilson Chandler Pull up jumper. Easy enough to see. Not a by product of the offense just Kobe doing what he does. And is the best on this Laker team to create his shot.

0:11-Usually most players WON'T take that shot. Because there is still a man nearby. Most would drive inside. This isn't a product of the offense just mere good shooting by Kobe.

0:18- Kobe again isolation and jumper. No triangle offense in fact was more of coming off a not so good screen. Still Kobe had the hot shooting night so what the heck?

0:25-Finally a triangle offense style field goal! Kobe has beaten his man and is heading for a dive. Luke's smart passing gets the ball first to Pau who is more closer and has a good chance at a good pass for Kobe's dive. Pau gets the assist, Kobe the dunk.

0:30-This is "moving without the ball". Kobe fakes his man by making him think he's going one way and instead heads back. Pau's sets a screen so Kobe's man can't come back as quickly. Luke recognizes this and hands off to a WIDE OPEN Kobe Bryant. A triangle offense style play.

0:42-Isolation play against David Lee. Another Isolation play but hey Kobe has a hot hand. Lee is afraid of Kobe driving by him. Because of that space Kobe has more room to operate and hits another jumper. (Not triangle designed play).

1:09-Another ISOLATION play hehe. Kobe creates space and hits a 3 pointer in front of Wilson Chandler. In other words: Kobe was the one who created this play. IT WASN'T a by product of the Triangle offense.

1:24-Isolation LOL! If you dare consider this to be "Triangle offense" consider the whole NBA to be running the triangle too! lol. Just another nice shot by Kobe.

1:45-Another Isolation play for Kobe. Going to be saying this MANY times. He dribbles and stop and shoots. Easy to see.

2:10- Damn finally another basket created by running the triangle offense. Kobe COULD had shot that shot had Lamar not did a cut to the basket. Kobe helped that basket by Lamar by jumping up and since he had a hot hand he was doubled. Instead of forcing it he gives off to a WIDE OPEN Lamar and gets the dunk.

2:27-Mistakes by Kobe and Luke. Because Kobe decided to penetrate and Luke decided to cut, his man went instead for Kobe and Kobe had to stop and shoot. These things has happened before so communication has to be steady so if it's an isolation play, the triange isn't being run at the same time.

2:42-Back to isolation of Kobe Bryant. He sees the perfect time to attack and gets the bucket and one. Just sloppy defense by the Knicks.

3:12-Another Kobe penetration. He makes a mistake by running into Pau's man (David Lee) and is contested heavily. But this is a reason why you NEVER want your man into the paint. It creates either passing options or a high FG% shot (basically a free throw for perimeter players). Kobe knows it and despite the contest, gets a good shot off.

3:23- This started off as a nice triangle play. Kobe's cut inside opened up Pau but Chandler recognizing Pau being opened quickly sealed off the passing lane. Kobe is forced instead to settle into another jumper which he hits.

3:38-Not a Triangle offense play. More of a pick and roll. However despite the trap, Kobe completely breaks through the double team but is met with defenders. However Pau makes a mistake of coming into the rest of the defenders instead of staying put and being open. Kobe hits another tough shot.

3:55-The 4th time Kobe scores off a triangle type offense. Trevor goes and sets a screen on Kobe's man which frees up Kobe for an open pass from Pau. Trevor's man though merely switches on Kobe so not exactly successful one but Kobe is very close to the basket and hits another tough jumper.

4:13-Kobe penetration stop and shoot a spot up jumper. Triangle offense wasn't used. Just Kobe being Kobe.

4:36-NICE move by Kobe. He could have tried to get the foul and one but because he has so much more space beyond where his man was, he simply spins and gets a nice shot in that even impresses Spike Lee.

Review: Celtics Game=More ball movement and Kobe got his shots but were more wide open and didn't rely on him being hot handed. Plus he still managed to run the triangle and with cuts from his teammates got them involved too. Knicks Game: Reliant on Kobe's hot hand. Sure he had the hot hand and Jackson did the right thing actually and got him rest and his points. But making the team to rely on Kobe's dependence on having a hot hand is not the recipe to success. Ball movement: Defeats ANY kind of defense whether it's man or zone.

Note: In the Finals Kobe was the one who was handling the ball TONS of times. Radmanovich or Sasha may have spreaded out the floor but Kobe still had to be the one set them up more. The Celtics forced him to take tough shots and closed his passing lanes down. Having Radmanovich into foul trouble really hurt the Lakers since it forced Jackson to play Kobe at the 3 where he had the tougher assignment of Paul Pierce (as if Ray Allen isn't hard enough) early on. Sorry but Walton in there is more ball movement and Kobe doesn't have to handle the ball as much and instead allows him to get into better position to attack or to get other teammates set up. And yes Walton played 28 minutes in the Celtics game and had Pierce on him many times. Ironically though, Pierce seemed to score most of his points when Ariza (note I said most because he did score some when he had Walton) was on the floor. Keep Kobe at the SG instead of SF and forcing him to attack and be like Scottie Pippen and making him guard bigger guys will help the offense and Kobe a ton and give more energy for defensive help (since he will guard Rondo) and for offense especially.

Conclusion: Ball movement will ALWAYS beat isolation play any day of the week!

-Kobeblitz

AK
Just give Kobe the ball!!

Package

I just looked at the box score for the game on Christmas Day and noticed that Ariza only played 18 minutes, whereas Luke played 28. Not sure why Trevor didn't get much burn then (or why Luke did), but I'd expect TA to get a lot more minutes tomorrow night...

LongLiveChick -

It wouldn't be Kobe, that's for sure. Umm...it's such an interesting question. Probably Drew. I hate to say it, but Pau is extremely effective still - and Drew was just starting to become extremely effective. But that decision could flip flop at any given moment.

Great question!

Pfunk,

Thanks for your comments. Obviously, there are some aspects of Phil’s coaching performance that we agree upon and others that we disagree on. I thought your musical analogy was interesting. I am a big jazz and Miles Davis fan and would tend to agree with your thoughts on Phil the musician, although my efforts as a proselytizer would probably also be to push the kids to play “Kool Jazz” as that is where my tastes lie, as you would guess since everybody knows I am up there in years.

There is no doubt that Phil has a formula and style that he has found worked before and tends to stick to that whenever possible. That is what tends to happen as we get older and have the benefit of experience, which often can and does impact our willingness and ability to embrace new ideas and concepts. That is something that you have to factor in the equation when evaluating Phil.

But while it is hard for Phil NOT to continue to do as he has done in the past and been successful, I do think he has shown much greater flexibility and willingness to accept and adopt new ideas, often as a result of the younger players he has to coach. We have seen Phil listen to Tex and allow the Lakers to run in transition and given Farmar the green light and minutes to push the ball. This year he allow Rambis to implement some zone defense components that were dramatically different from what his teams have done in the past.

As much as we would like it to happen, Phil at this age and point in his career is not going to pull a reverse and start calling timeouts to quell other team’s runs. He is going to continue to coach for the long term with a focus on the playoffs, often sacrificing wins during the season. And he will often stick with the Triangle when the team and situation might be better suited to running pick and rolls where we could focus on all three of our great players – Kobe, Drew, and Pau.

I would make the distinction that Phil depends more on overall strategy than tactics, meaning that his long term goal of teaching teams how to play through difficulties will sometimes override short-term tactically gains. Sometimes, that does not work as when he allowed the Celtics to rally back from 24 points down to steal the series. Of course, that experience may result in the team becoming tougher next time they meet the Celtics in the Finals. After all, the task of building a championship team is not limited to a single season, as Phil has shown in his unmatched record of 3 different three-peats and 9 rings.

Finally, there is an element of Phil’s personality that is very iconoclastic to the extent that he still loves being the rebel with a cause, the fly in the ointment, the guy who does it his own unique way. I think this is the aspect of Phil that loves to see the team lose a game because they did not listen to him or take his instructions seriously enough. As his ex-wife once said, Phil loves being inscrutable and different. In my opinion, when his ego gets involved like this is when he convinces himself he can make players out of guys like Smush and Kwame. Bottom line, though, I still think he is one of the greatest coaches ever, although he, like most of us when they get old, tend to be more settled in their ways.

As always, JMNSHBO!

Tom

Trevor out hustles the Celts on D twice, forcing two critical turnovers that allow the Lakers to score both times.

He bothers, exposes, and shames them at the same time.

I love Trevor.

*THEY WEREN'T ALLOWED TO DOUBLE TEAM OR EVEN CHEAT OFF OF THE BALL

"No one in their right mind would take on such a crippling contract, especially when money is growing scarcer by the day.

I think Shack is smelling like a rose, on the other hand"

Yeah, because Shaq's 20 million dollar contract is such a deal. And because Drew's recording multiple double-double's vs Shaq only playing every other game or so is shows such an equal showing of playing ability. And because the Suns have the best record in the western conference - oh wait...

Kobe earns 200 Million so he can splurge the way he wants to impress New Yorkers. With his joint venture with Spike Lee, he could earn another couple of millions. Somebody said he has 0 rebounds with 61 pts. Which do you prefer Kobe with double-double R & A and 5 pts. Without Drew, Lakers would surely lose the game is Kobe has a single digit contribution.

Whatever other fans and experts say, as long as purple and gold is winning, who cares with their opinions? Opinions cannot win Championship but Kobe and a good support from the rest of the Lakers will. As long as Kobe is playing there will be endless of analysis-paralysis on his game. Kobe sells & Kobe creates jobs for sportswriters and bloggers. LOL!

Did anyone read the today's Times article discussing the particulars about Bynum's injury? They talked about him probably having "loose joints" and ligament laxity, possibly predisposing him toward knee injuries. Someone need to tell him to get prolotherapy, which involves injections into damaged (or even simply loose) ligament to stimulate generation of new ligament tissue. The ligament tightens up and the new tissue is not scar tissue which lines up randomly and doesn't work as well as OEM. Instead, the new ligament tissue is just like original. This treatment has been around for centuries, and originally started with the ancient egyptians treating their race horses' joints. I've had it for my back and it works. Check out prolotherapy.org. (No I'm not affiliated, just want Bynum as healthy as possible so the Lakers can dominate.)

Pfunk36,

I thought you'd enjoy that. "Kind of Blue" is definitely one of the all-time greats.

What's arguably most remarkable about "Bitches" is how Davis managed to strike a balance between pushing the limits of free form expression/"way out" sound and creating a final product that's, relatively speaking, accessible. It's obviously not for everyone, but considering how the fusion genre took off in large part because of that album, it clearly managed to find an audience, even while flirting with "acquired taste."

It's not an easy path to walk and not all of Davis' experiments along those lines were that successful. For example, "On the Corner" (released around the same time and heavily influenced by Hendrix, Sly, James Brown, etc.) is, in my personal opinion, borderline unlistenable. At times excruciating. I admire Davis for truly going out on a limb, but with bigger risks sometimes comes a grasp exceeded.

AK

Who is Red and why does his love child come on here?

blitz,

interesting ...

you wrote:
Again with your "worked over his game over the summer" crap you bring up Hobbit.

Jeez if you were coaching the Kobe-Shaq Lakers you would go insane with dealing with Shaq and that isn't just the summer, he did it before games too.

I guess that's the reason why you AREN'T the Coach of the Lakers since you would rail Shaq so much yet Jackson did not do so as much yet he coaxed 3 championships despite Shaq being like that 2 out of the 3 years and yet Shaq got the Finals MVP 3 times. I trust Phil more than you really anyways when it comes to the Lakers.

my response: There are many reasons why I'm not the
coach of the Lakers. But let's put this in perspective ...

Shaq has missed ~ 5000 freethrows. 5000!

Wilt Chamberlain 5,805
Shaquille O'Neal 4,995
Karl Malone 3,401
Walt Bellamy 2,975
Elvin Hayes 2,643
Source: Elias

http://tinyurl.com/54nbz2

NBA all time leading scorers

1 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 38,387
2 Karl Malone 36,928
3 Michael Jordan 32,292
4 Wilt Chamberlain 31,419
5 Moses Malone 27,409
6 Elvin Hayes 27,313
7 SHAQUILLE O'NEAL 26,982

If he had made half of those shots he'd be in 5th place
behind Wilt Chamberlain.

Kareem's 16th year 38/39 years old
79 games played. 2600 minutes
67 steals 130 blks 1846 pts.

Shaq's 16th year 36/37 years old.
39 games so far. 1205 minutes
16 steals 62 blks. 696 pts.

Which one would you want on your team in his 16th
year?

http://tinyurl.com/aahac9

excerpt:
In the end, it's all a matter of personal accountability. Do we want to be a person of character, or not? It doesn't matter if we get caught or not. What matters is that we are defined by our actions.

These are the actions that Shaq has recently been
defined by:

- Getting traded away from Kobe.
- Getting traded away from D-Wade.
- Throwing Dr. Buss under a bus.
- Throwing Pat Riley/Miami Heat under a bus.
- Publicly ridiculing former teammate, whom he called
"a little brother"
- Publicly being removed from an honorary position with
a law enforcement agency for "inappropriate"
behavior.

Do you think Phil could have coached the Miami Heat
if he had wanted to? [ yes, there issues b/n Phil
& Jeannie Buss ] Here's a quote from Jeannie Buss
on Phil and NY:

Jeannie mildly disagrees. "Phil wanted to go to a team where he felt he had an opportunity to win a championship and the Lakers presented that chance," Buss said. "My dad also opened his checkbook. That didn't hurt."

If this is true then why not go to Miami with Shaq &
D-Wade?

If he had worked on his game Dr. Buss would have
paid him his $$. The Lakers wouldn't have split up &
we'd be ahead of the Boston Celtics as the greatest
basketball Dynasty ever!

If the Celtics have 40 hrs. per week of organized
practiced & the individual players put in an extra
20 hrs. per week of private practice do you think
the Lakers can beat them with only 40 hrs. per week
of organized practice?

I'm actually a little surprised at you. I would think with
Phil's comments about his bulls "lusting to practice"
that you'd understand. I would think with all of the
reading that you've done you would understand. It
sounds to me like your just mad because *your* boy
Lamar's character is on public display and many
people are talking about it. Didn't he say:

"I'm going to be more aggressive & take 20 shots"

Did he take 3? Kobe blew up it's true, but there's that
spanish fellow ... Didn't he drop 31/14 on the knicks?
Hold on a sec. Doesn't that spanish fellow go well
to either the left or the right? Did he learn to do that
in organized practice or did he pick that up on his own?

If Lamar is so important to the Lakers how come they
haven't extended him yet? How come they haven't
*publicly* talked about extending him yet? Didn't the
Lakers just extend the kid? You know the puppy who
WORKED ON HIS GAME this summer ...

people who worked on their game this summer:

Kobe
D-Wade
LeBron
KG
Pierce
D-Howard
Mo Williams
Gasol

[ odd how they seem to all be contending for a ring
this year isn't it? ]

But I digress. We were talking about the fatman weren't
we? My bad. Feel free to continue your inane tirades.

>>>I'm surprised by the trade Bynum talk here.

Let me ask you this. If the Lakers could trade Bynum for
Dwight Howard tomorrow, would you?

If the Lakers could trade Bynum for LeBron James tomorrow,
would you?

If you said yes to either of these, then you are willing to trade
Bynum. The only question is the price.

I find Bosh, who is only 2 years older than Bynum, more
reliable, and less injury prone to be more valuable than
Andrew. Perhaps you don't.

what's more impressive, 61-0-3, or 52-10-11? you can get a few long rebounds off 3 pt attempts (or *not* as kobe demonstrated), but 10 rebounds usually means you were also pounding the boards, and 11 assists suggests that you were *looking* to keep your teammates in the game. (because of his passing skills, lebron is more like magic than MJ IMO.) then there are his amazing weak side blocks like the sick one he did on bosh this week. i submit that those fire up teammates and fans more than making a 3 pt shot going 1 on 5.

“The sad thing is that I’m sure LeBron said that it’s no big deal to get 61 points,” Knicks coach Mike D’Antoni said. “I’ll just get a triple-double. (Kobe) didn’t do that.”

to be fair, lebron can also be guilty of hogging the ball, like he did against the pistons - and it showed when the cavs went on a 15-2 spurt with lebron on the bench. maybe if kobe trusted his teammates more, they'd capable of doing likewise? we'll probably never know.


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