Links'N'Thoughts
January 10, 2009 | 11:50
am
I mentioned it in Friday night's postgame, but it's worth repeating in the wake of LA's 121-119 win over the Pacers: There are no "bad" wins given the players currently missing from the Lakers' lineup, and while defensively the team was generally awful (to some extend expected given the new rotations) there 
were actually a lot of things to like. Kobe Bryant drilled the game winner with three seconds left, but laid out the blueprint for continued success through the first three quarters when he piled up 13 dimes and kept the big men happy with feeds, setting up the post and mid-range games of both Pau Gasol and Andrew Bynum. (By the way, isn't it nice to refer to a mid-range game for Bynum?) The ball HAS to keep moving, from the opening tip through to the end of the game.
Some thoughts:
- Said Jarret Jack about Kobe's game winner: “Pretty much all he did was use his size over me,” Jack said. “He just backed me down and I tried to stay with him. You can’t jump too early because he’s the kind of the pump fake. I tried to challenge it the best I could, but he was still able to knock it down.” Couldn't see that coming, could you? If you're a Pacers fan, at what point do you stop stabbing your Jim O'Brien voodoo doll for not sending Jack some help?
- The play of Josh Powell since LO went out is an important reminder of why depth is so important, even the guys who aren't in the regular rotation. Nobody wants it to happen, but there very well could be a time in the next few months where Chris Mihm, currently languishing on the bench, becomes valuable. Those casually including Mihm in potential trades should keep the lesson of Powell in mind.
- I asked PJ before last night's game about Sasha, and whether or not he needs to tether the emotion a little. The result? A "classic" PJ tweak about an inherent lack of brains. This, of course, meant the same media throng had to find Vujacic for comment. Sasha's been around long enough to know that when he turns around before a game to see eight dudes/dudettes with tape recorders and notebooks, something is up. It's just not the norm at that point in the evening. The look on his face was fairly priceless, and to his credit Vujacic just smiled and said, "Whatever (PJ) said, I'm just going to take it as a compliment." But since he was put on the spot, I didn't really get a chance to explore the issue with him. We all know Sasha's a fiery guy, but he's still too easily taken off his game, especially by whistles he doesn't agree with... which basically amounts to all of them.
- Saw Luke Walton walking into the locker room. No boot, no limp. Hopefully he's on the track back to active duty.
- During the live blog, many of us were wondering why Bynum wasn't on the floor more down the stretch. I asked PJ after the game, and he- while explicitly pointing out that he didn't intend this as a criticism- said that given the particular sets Indiana ran and the size of the guys running them, it was very difficult for Bynum to keep up on the defensive end. He quickly noted that the other guys didn't exactly do a great job, either. Personally, I'd have liked to see Drew on the floor, if only because it might have helped the Lakers keep utilizing a strong interior game on the other end. The Lakers were jumper happy down the stretch, with a lot of one-and-dones. And perhaps Bynum's presence might have forced the Pacers out of their comfort zone.
- The decision Vlad Radmanovic made before the game-tying three to leave Mike Dunleavy Jr. and
try to rotate back to Troy Murphy on the block was astonishingly bad.
Yes, that was his man... but dude, time and place.
In Other NBA News:
- Darius Miles is back in Memphis. Portland is sad as their hard-earned salary cap space this summer could disappear. What happens next could be very interesting, depending especially on whether or not the Blazers follow through on a threat to sue the team that signs him.
- The Knicks might be holding on to David Lee after all.
- Don't look for player movement from the Magic, either.
- Boston took one on the nose last night in Cleveland- they've been doing that a lot lately- but still aren't going to panic. Instead, the focus is to fix what ails them.
- Sean May needs to lose weight.
BK
Doc Rivers is a sub-par coach.
One more reason that Celtics implosion 2009 in underway.
They really need to sign Stephon Marbury. I want more entertainment.
Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.
GO LAKERS!
Posted by: Jon K. | January 10, 2009 at 12:00 PM
I'm really enjoying life right now....
Celts crumbling worse than a dried out cookie....
Miles handing Portland the middle finger....
The Lakers winning, tied for the best record...
But it isn't without dark clouds on the horizon. It's time to buckle down fellas...
The Crab People are coming to town
Posted by: Tim-4-Show | January 10, 2009 at 12:19 PM
Freak Celts!
Posted by: Faith | January 10, 2009 at 12:20 PM
HOLY REPOST BATMAN:
AKA NEW THREAD AAAARRRRGGG!
AKA SORRY FOR THE REDUNDENCY EVERYBODY:
AP News Release, Indiana
The Pacers are making serious efforts to corner the market on strange and bizzare looking white guys, hoping to fill their roster with them according to Pacer GM Larry Bird. " I think leadership and inspiration should be set by example and so I employ a hands on approach. As a former NBA poster child for freaky looking white dudes, I feel it's my duty to give as many of them as I can find an opportunity to play for the Pacers." said Bird from his pearch in French Lick.
The Pacers coach agreed, saying other than his Celtic connection, his only qualification for being hired by Bird was "my strange oblong shaped head and augmenting haircut".
Pacer fans can vote for their favorite Pacer player in the annual Fugly Pacer of the Year contest, the winner of which is imortalized in Conseco Field House's wall of shame located on the arena's outhouse walls.
Current vote getting leaders are Mike Dunleavy, Greg Foster and Troy Murphy.
GO LAKERS !!!
Hey at least with this repost I get to spell Dunleavy's name correctly---lucky him...
GO LAKERS !!!
Posted by: Floyd | January 10, 2009 at 12:28 PM
Laker Nation secret agent Jon K. reporting DEEP behind enemy lines in the gray frozen wastes of Northeast Ohio...
I don't like King Crab and The Crab People, but they are playing really impressive ball right now.
With Ilgauskas (a highly under-rated player) hurt, the key to beating the The Crab people will be Gasol-Bynum. They need to protect the rim from the infamous crab dribble and control the paint.
We do that. We win. It's that simple.
What do we play for? RINGS!!!!
Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.
GO LAKERS!
Posted by: Jon K. | January 10, 2009 at 12:47 PM
Blitz,
I think it has a lot to do with the pace. He felt rushed, hence he rushed...hence unwise all around game. I'm very disappointed in Sasha.
But I have faith he'll figure it out and stop that! lol.
Meanwhile...defense man. We need defense. We're only as good as our D...we ain't playing it consistently or at all often times. Not gonna get it done.
Posted by: Faith | January 10, 2009 at 12:47 PM
Amazing Happens and Kiwi:
THE DEATH OF DEFENSE?
"Tex Winter, now 84 and the veteran of more than a half century of coaching, has serious misgivings about what the league has done.
Winter acknowledges the outgrowth of the new rules interpretation is the rise of the super dominant offensive player, led by Wade’s performance in the NBA Finals and Bryant’s string of 40-, 50, even 60-point games during the regular season.
“It’s brought all these 40-point scorers,” Winter said. “They can’t score 40 points unless they get 15-20 free throws.”
And that’s exactly what they were getting on their big nights.
“They should be protected, but not that much,” Winter said of the current generation of talented offensive players. “I don’t think that just touching a player should be a foul.”
Yet there were key foul calls in the playoffs last year that came down to touch calls, which in turn sent the offensive player to the line for bonus points that ultimately decided games.
Ironically, this attempt to pick up scoring also slowed the pace of NBA games last year because numerous foul calls mean a parade of free throws on many game nights, Winter said.
“The fans are not going to like that whistle blowing all the time. It’s slowed down the pace of the game.”
Winter’s other complaint with the new officiating is that the game now allows the same old physical play in the post while turning the perimeter and wing into a no-touch zone.
“That doesn’t make sense to me,” Winter said. “If you can do all that tough stuff inside, why can’t you do it outside?”
“Defense has basically stayed the same in the low post. Out on the court there’s no doubt that the interpretation has changed,” Thorn conceded."
Joe Dumars on guarding Michael Jordan now and how with today's rules are:
"Asked in July if he could defend Jordan under today’s interpretation of the rules, Dumars first laughed, then offered a long pause before replying, “It would have been virtually impossible to defend Michael Jordan based on the way the game’s being called right now.”
Source: http://tinyurl.com/2ln6gk
(Note Jordan averaged 37.1ppg in the 86-87 season in a tougher era when there was no flagrant fouls i.e. the McHale clothesline over Rambis. With the way defenses are, Jordan would have an easier time).
Zone defenses work against teams that rely on one person to create (point guards who contribute 90% of the team's assists or one dominant big man). Have a great passing team like the current Lakers, 90's Bulls, Showtime Lakers, and Adelmen's teams (Princeton offense) will bust up zones.
Pat Riley and Marv Albert makes fun of the "dinky" 1-2-2 trap defense:
Source: http://tinyurl.com/8zrd2c
(Note: Riley's Knicks teams used the same kind of defense as the Detroit Pistons did in the 80's. The 80's Pistons and the 90's Knicks rank as some of the toughest defenses in NBA History)
-blitz
Posted by: kobeblitz | January 10, 2009 at 01:00 PM
Faith,
That's what faith is for hehe.
Sasha is a good shooter. He just needs to calm down. This is basketball the Lakers are playing not hot potato. I get the feeling that he "needs" to score and it's interfering with his shot. Last year he was more relaxed didn't rush his shot, and most importantly it had more arc instead of the flat ones he is currently shooting.
-blitz
Posted by: kobeblitz | January 10, 2009 at 01:03 PM
AK/BK,
Any word on Lamar? I know he's listed as day-to-day, but do you have any inside info that's more specific?
Go Lake Show!
Posted by: The Outlaw | January 10, 2009 at 01:09 PM
Watched CLE playing and they are playing well, but without LBJ on the floor they're not great. Similiar to when Kobe goes out sometimes. So Gasol and Bynum will have to be spectacular.
Delonte West is a freaky lookin' dude.
Loved that BOS went down. Loved seeing PP hang his head. So nice.
GO LAKERS
Posted by: longtimelakerlover | January 10, 2009 at 01:11 PM
The play of Josh Powell should be a statement to Lamar Odom when he comes back that there can be no more games where he just phones it in. Unlike LO, Powell is making the most of every minute on the floor.
We all know what LO can do when he is on, and Lamar needs to bring it.
Meanwhile, Vlad's mental lapses are making Luke Walton look like Luke Skywalker. Go figure. As for Sasha, he's now been around long enough that it's fair to expect him to make better use of the minutes he's picking up from Farmar's injury.
BK is right: There are no bad wins when three key players are in the infirmary. But meanwhile the other reserves need to take a page from the Josh Powell playbook. It's scary to think of the prospective toll that all these extra minutes will have down the road on Kobe, Fish, and Gasol.
Phil Jackson teams usually are at their best at the end of the season and into the Playoffs. If our key players have no legs left when we get there, woe is us. We're going to need some games here in the middle of the season where the regulars dominate enough to give the reserves enough minutes to mitigate the high burn rate going on right now.
Besides, the cost of maintaining enough vodka in the house to get through some of these nail biters just doesn't work in this economy. Go Lakers!
Posted by: Rick Friedman | January 10, 2009 at 01:13 PM
Kobe actually started busting Jack up in the 3rd quarter. You could almost read Kobe's mind....he was like "How dare they put this little fella to defend me? They better recognize. " LOL!
Jim O'Brien is one of what I call the "recyclables". Men who have never won anything but continue to get opportunities as head coaches. Part of the old boy's network. He must know somebody.
Indy matches up very well with the Lakers offensively, but can't stop the Lakers either. They played two of their best games of the year against the P & G. Still, the Lakers defensive effort was abysmal. They fouled jump shooters, lost their men on back door plays and that last sequence with Vlad and Sasha that led to the game-tying three was worthy of Laurel and Hardy! They'll take the win and move on.
GO LAKERS!
Posted by: bronxlakerfan | January 10, 2009 at 01:28 PM
kobeblitz,
What I love about Tex Winters is that he does not give a frick.
He is old and he is going to say what is on his mind, like it or not.
Tex Winters is awesome.
We need more links to Roland Lazenby in these threads. Roland is always talking to Tex Winters.
Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.
GO LAKERS!
Posted by: Jon K. | January 10, 2009 at 02:34 PM
Question to K bros -
I posted a comment just as you were changing threads to this one - yet it didn't come up in either thread. Did it get lost in the shuffle? Or did it get banned because I said "ass"?
Posted by: Jay Jay | January 10, 2009 at 02:40 PM
The Outlaw,
I don't think anyone really knows "for sure" when LO will be back. "Day-to-day" is often code for "touch and go." I spoke to him briefly in passing yesterday and he said he was feeling better. But if I had to guess, he won't be back until next week's roadie, or maybe even Friday against Orlando.
Jay Jay,
Your comment went through. Make sure to hit the "next" tab at the bottom of the thread.
AK
Posted by: kambrothers | January 10, 2009 at 02:45 PM
READ AND REACT…
******************************
blitz (about Michael Jordan),
>>>>>I know you are a true die hard Laker fan Laker Tom but don't disrespect Michael
>>>>>Jordan. To be honest, Jordan would average 40ppg+ in today's game (had he
>>>>>scored like he did early in his career).
That was a compliment to MJ, blitz. I said I would not fear the Pacers even if they had MJ. And I have always said that you cannot even talk about comparing KB or LeBron to MJ until their careers are over. Any comparison at this point is a joke. However, I seriously doubt that MJ would average 40ppg+ in today’s game. Mere hyperbole in my opinion. You idolize MJ so much I wonder if you were a Bulls fan before becoming a Lakers fan.
******************************
Butchiky (about Sasha Vujacic)…
>>>>>I think he should undergo a process in computer maintenance >>>>>"DEFRAGMENTATATION PROCESS" to increase his capacity to think fast.
DEFRAG the MACHINE! I like it. Increase his RAM, upgrade his BIOS, and backup his good games and erase his bad games. He is, after all, the Machine.
******************************
Eric (about Andrew Bynum),
>>>>>Before the season we talked about him needing about 40 games to get
>>>>>back into form, and we are now at 35.
Since our next 5 games are against Miami, Houston, San Antonio, Orlando, and Cleveland, we may need Drew to speed that schedule up a little. How are the cows?
******************************
Pig (about Lamar Odom)
>>>>>Imagine how good Lamar Odom would be if he had LeBron James' mentality.
>>>>>Only one guy on the Lakers has the agility and size to match LeBron's.
>>>>>Lamar Odom.
I would hope that even the Lamar doubters would have 2nd thoughts about Lamar’s value to the team’s defense, offense, and rebounding. Lamar Odom should be a Laker for Life.
******************************
Jon (about winning),
>>>>>Winning (and sex) is a lot like pizza. When it's good, it's REALLY GOOD!
>>>>>When it's bad, it's still pretty good.
And kind of like revenge. Great when it’s HOT but best when served COLD.
******************************
Kiwi (about small ball),
>>>>>Isn't Nellie D'Antoni basketball a bit like communism? Does the fact that it failed
>>>>>in a specific instance mean that it 'doesn't work' or at least works any less well
>>>>>than anything else....?
Dantoni run-and-gun may finally succeed once LeBron joins the Knicks. I mean, can you imagine trying to defend LeBron in soon-to-come New York Suns version of run-and-gun?
******************************
LakerMan420 (about smoking),
>>>>>Well, an interesting, if not mind numbing game...from a smokers point of view.
>>>>>After randomly packing more bowls than I care to think about, I ran outside and
>>>>>tore down the neighbors fence and ran in front of my big screen for the entire
>>>>>third quarter yelling 'D-FENSE!'
Moderation and balance are not only the keys to good mental health but also to using mind-altering substances to focus and enhance rather than deaden and numb the brain.
When watching Lakers, follow the great Bob Marley’s advice to “Smoke 2 Joints.”
******************************
Haha (about Andrew Bynum)
>>>>>it is funny how some complain of rebounding by Bynum in this game, Pacers
>>>>>shot very well in the first 3 quarters and generally didn't cool off till last quarter,
>>>>>if they don't miss there ain't rebounds to grab and he wasn't in the fourth quarter.
Excellent point. The rebounding figures were incredibly low for everybody, including Pau at the end of the 3rd quarter. And Pau did get many of his boards in the 4th quarter.
******************************
As always, JMNSHBO!
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | January 10, 2009 at 02:54 PM
As hard as I've been on LO, I hope he does make it back soon. We've got a lot of tough games on our plate for the rest of the month.
Posted by: Laker Kev | January 10, 2009 at 03:05 PM
I think KBBLITZ or quouted "(Note Jordan averaged 37.1ppg in the 86-87 season in a tougher era when there was no flagrant fouls i.e. the McHale clothesline over Rambis. With the way defenses are, Jordan would have an easier time)." ......IMHO that was not a flagrant foul, that was assault, he should have been charged, arrested, banned for 2 years,everything....McHale is sucks coffe pods....he has shown so much class in his career, the Joe Smith deal, feeding KG (Malibu Barbie) to the Fairycons, (actually at this point now, I'd rather have Gasol than Garnett....and at this point as Marc Gasol is showing he has gamel, Critter didn't pan out, some do some don't, it was they're choice to do the deal or not, upcoming draft picks, was McKie part of that trade???, if so all the knowledge he has of the game (I always thought had a big head)
other comments to blow over:
Sun looks nervous and needs to adjust to the toughness and speed of the NBA game...wish he had a 3 year guranteed contract....
Josh is showing some game, I'll say that I would take him over "M.L. Carr Turiaf (that was bad, but I had to say it....play first, celebrate later)....yes his inspiration was great for the team, but he didn't improve greatly/consistently much over his years in LA, wow time flies, I can remember talking him at Farmer's Market/Grove and wishing him "good luck" as he had just arrived in LA...
Tempus Fugit....
h.
Posted by: humanomaly | January 10, 2009 at 03:12 PM
BK,
>>>>>During the live blog, many of us were wondering why Bynum wasn't on the floor >>>>>more down the stretch. I asked PJ after the game, and he- while explicitly pointing
>>>>>out that he didn't intend this as a criticism- said that given the particular sets Indiana
>>>>>ran and the size of the guys running them, it was very difficult for Bynum to keep up
>>>>>on the defensive end. He quickly noted that the other guys didn't exactly do a great
>>>>>job, either.
>>>>>Personally, I'd have liked to see Drew on the floor, if only because it might have
>>>>>helped the Lakers keep utilizing a strong interior game on the other end. The
>>>>>Lakers were jumper happy down the stretch, with a lot of one-and-dones. And
>>>>>perhaps Bynum's presence might have forced the Pacers out of their comfort zone.
Outstanding comments, Brian! I originally thought that Phil was playing some form of mind game on Drew by keeping him out the entire fourth quarter of the win over the Warriors and had a series of exchanges with blitz who claimed Phil was just matching up to the Warriors. I told blitz that if that was so, I was even more concerned than if Phil had just been trying to motivate Drew because he was ignoring a major basketball principle about matchups by succumbing to the urge to match up against the Warriors small ball.
I even emailed Kevin Ding and Eric Pincus to get their takes on why Phil did not play Drew in the fourth quarter against the Warrior. Kevin said he thought Phil just did not want to substitute for Drew once the fourth quarter got going because he did not want to mess up the rotation that was playing so well. Eric said he actually thought that Phil was trying to match up better with the Warriors. Neither thought the issue was Phil toying with Drew. I will follow up and ask them both what they thought about Drew not playing down the stretch in last night’s game against the Pacers.
Didn’t Phil remember what happened to the Dallas Mavericks when Avery Johnson decided to do the same thing in the playoffs two years in a row against the Warriors? And since when do we allow other teams to dictate the matchups? That is one of the strengths of our depth and versatility, the ability to go big and punish teams playing small ball. In fact, that is exactly what we have done year after year when playing the Warriors. So now, when the W’s are shorthanded, we suddenly try to beat them by playing small ball? Well, excuse me, but that was a stupid move by Phil that we were lucky didn’t kill us.
I was working late on a year-end closing project and had to listen to the game on NBA Audio League Pass, which screwed up and for some reason cut the broadcast with a few minutes left in the game. What a bummer! While I did not post, I did follow the comments on the Live Blog and loved the point you made about “who was Drew going to guard, but also who was going to guard Drew.” That is the key issue. You do not beat the Warriors by playing at their pace. You slow the game down to half court. You pound the ball into the paint, dominate the boards, put the other team into foul trouble, and shoot a lot of free throws. What the hell was Phil thinking? Size, height, and length are our big advantages. We should have forced the Warriors and the Pacers to adjust rather than trying to matchup with them, especially when both 7-footers were playing extremely well.
At any rate, thanks for your comments on this point. You have been really spot-on the last few threads with some great insights and observations, especially your points about Lamar Odom’s defense and versatility really being missed. Keep up the great work.
JMNSHBO!
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | January 10, 2009 at 03:16 PM
Kevin Garnett: "We're a team of gentlemen, we're a team of class..."
Keep telling yourself that Kevin. You might believe it, but you'll never convince the rest of the world that it's true until you stop acting like an out-of-control teenager who needs to spend a month at Jerry Springer's boot camp.
Posted by: Mayor of Kobe Town | January 10, 2009 at 03:23 PM
Laker Tom,
I was a fan since the Showtime days and even the days when Eddie Jones, Nick Van Exle, and even Vlade Divac were on the Lakers (good players not stars though). I wasn't a Bulls fan ever (the cousins were as they live in Chicago but never was for me) but I did watch Michael Jordan a ton to learn to appreciate his game and when he played his last game in LA, was cheering for him a ton (though cheered more the Lakers got the win not to mention Kobe's 55 points).
-blitz
Posted by: kobeblitz | January 10, 2009 at 03:31 PM
Laker Tom,
I know you were talking to BK before, but for what it's worth, I don't think Phil's not playing Bynum down the stretch is in any way meant to be a "psychological" tactic. Phil's actually gone out of his way to praise Drew's overall play and not make it seem like the lack of late fourth quarter minutes reflects dissatisfaction. He just has more trust in Pau and LO (the primary bigs involved) and obviously hasn't help comfortable with all three guys. Whether you agree or disagree is another story (and I imagine you don't), but I don't think there's a "hidden message" or " mind game" in play.
AK
Posted by: kambrothers | January 10, 2009 at 03:36 PM
Blitz
Well done...great research.Theres no denying that the belief is that the game has been made easier for scorers but what I was saying is that in reality it might not be as extreme as people believe it to be or may not be happening for the reasons that are being attributed to it....or even if they are there are other things going on that negate some of the impact...or it might actually be tougher for great individuals now in certain instances
I thought it had already been thrown out there that the numbers of freethrows per game HAD NOT risen? what I can tell you is that on basketball reference the total amount of free throws per game are counted and the highest individual seasons for attempts are listed.There is a blip in '05 '06 when a number of scorers from that season appear near each other but bear in mind the first one (iverson) appears at number 41 on the list.He is the first current era player to appear on the list apart from Howard who makes a random appearance at number 20.
Jordan era players through the late 80's early 90's appear 14 times in the top 40 Jordan himself featuring twice. (numbers 8 and 31) Jerry west (twice),Oscar Robertson (twice),baylor all appear in the top 40.
all these players appear again before Kobe makes his second appearance at number 79.The only other player from this era that appears multimple times is iverson and other than this the years between '04 and '08 are absent from the list apart from Lebron james down in the hundreds.
So what we have is one season where there was an irrregularity and alot of scorers shot alot of freethrows but freethrows and scoring averages have since returned to normal yet everyone still goes on believing the irregularity from that one season.Furthermore - in this season Kobe averaged two less points a game than Jordan did in his big scoring season.He shot field goals 0.6 times less a game than Jordan but Jordan shot nearly two full freebies a game more than Kobe (10.2 versus 11.9)
Throw in the fact these guys in jordans shot the ball consistently better and I mean ALOT better and its clear there is more going on.
Sure some fouls are called that shouldnt be and we've all seen Kobe getting hammered with no call...
One blip of a season and one finals when the refs cheated/didnt know how to ref wade has simply got people assuming certain things that dont actually exist...or at least not to the extent they think....forty point scorers? hell I remember guys scoring 40 ALL the time in Jordans era and it wasnt just him.Rex chapman,KJ...I remember a ten day contract rookie for the clippers droppping thirtysomething on another crap team and Doug collins saying 'wow if he wants to stay in the league eventually he's going to have to prove he can make some jumpers' That was in about 1994.
yes the pistons and knicks were great defensive teams and yes Jordan had trouble against them and yes teams continually defensive strategies continually progress and adapt to shutting down superstars... which is why the celtics of last year have been considered the result of defensive genius and there have been plenty of solid arguments that they were the best defensive team ever.Go back and watch some of those games between the knicks and bulls you'll be amazed at how clean they are...guys have got way better at subtle fouls.Players and teams will adapt to whatever rules are there.Jordan embarrassed the league early on becasue nobody had ever had to deal with that kind of player before...swap him then for Kobe and it would have been the same problem.Kobe's offensive game is probably more complete than Michaels ever was or had to be.Other stuff sets Jordan apart...he's the best ever but in terms of straight game ? it stands to reason the players, and the ability to defend them,improves over time.
Posted by: Kiwi (recovering from the killer flu) | January 10, 2009 at 03:39 PM
BLOG CRUE
I've been so busy with a five week course that I have not been able to watch any games in the last week. Good to see the purple and gold CRUE taking care of business.
Colorado loves the Lakers!
Posted by: Hugo Boss | January 10, 2009 at 03:43 PM
ive just sent a ling one to blitz that most of you wont be interested in.i did discover one fact that is intriguing though
In Jordans 37 point a game season he averaged nearly two free throw attempts MORE per game than Kobe did in his 35 a game season.
Posted by: Kiwi (recovering from the killer flu) | January 10, 2009 at 03:44 PM
While in principle, I agree that the Lakers s/d force other teams to match up to them instead of the other way around, I see PJ's point of view. Given that the Pacers have a good Princeton offense and some guys that could shoot the long ball, playing small ball on defense was a reasonable call.
The problem was Sasha was not having a good night so our 3 guard small ball sucked. This is a game where we really missed LO because Lamar has enough quickness in defense with length that we didn't need to go to a 3 guard lineup for defensive purposes if he was around.
Trevor was also in foul trouble which made the Lakers' defense even worse.
So that left us Radman and Sasha to try to improve the defense - yikes!
I don't think PJ is playing mind games with Drew.
I'm not sure if the coaches emphasized the point or they figured it out themselves but you could see in last night's game that our two wise vets - Kobe and Fish - were feeding the big dogs - Drew and Pau - under the basket on purpose.
Sometimes, the nice thing when teams start missing key players like Lamar is they stop messing around, (at least on offense last night), and they start doing what they should have been doing all season long - the smalls feedings the bigs.
Posted by: LakerinBC | January 10, 2009 at 04:01 PM
"We're a team of gentlemen, we're a team of class..."
I said it before and I'll say it again.
Pride cometh before a fall and a haughty spirit before destruction.
Paul Pierce + "I'm the best player in the league" = PRIDE
KG + taunts + "We're a team of class..."= HAUGHTY SPIRIT
Christmas Day 2008 + 7 more losses and 2009 ain't even 2 weeks old yet= DESTRUCTION!
Red, I'm seriously doubting that y'all will even make the Finals. Seriously...
Posted by: utzworld - THE BANNER HOLDER | January 10, 2009 at 04:03 PM
LakerTom,
The Lakers didn't try to play "small ball" - just look at the number of minutes Bynum played! Bynum does not do an especially good job yet playing defense against smaller, more active centers, especially those who are good perimeter shooters, and he doesn't do a great job of rotating on help defense. So the coaching staff has to balance what they lose in post offense, rebounding, and shot-blocking against what they gain in defense. It's a judgment call and can be argued either way, but it's definitely not "stupid."
Posted by: exhelodrvr | January 10, 2009 at 04:06 PM
After about a month and a half away, I'm finally back on blog.
It's good to be back, especially with the Lakers owning the league's top record and the Celtics crumbling.
Posted by: Xodus | January 10, 2009 at 04:07 PM
I don't know about previous games...but last night was about match-ups.
Notice when in the last minutes he subbed in Bynum for our offensive possession, but took him out again for Vlad for a defensive possession?
It's because he's thinking Vlad would better defend a jumper...the Pacers weren't getting or doing anything insides (when they did Bynum was there but didn't do much one-on-one either, that's not a knock on Bynum, but the overall defense)...but they were knocking things down outside over and over again. To counter that you need guys that can defend in the perimeter...with Trevor in foul trouble, Vlad made sense.
Now here is the real problem...while Vlad knows and is not bad at defending shooters (watch our first game against Peja again...this season)...he's not very smart in general. Hence leaving the shooters to help out. Stay on your man!!! That goes for a lot of our perimeter defenders last night.
Posted by: Faith | January 10, 2009 at 04:20 PM
Bynum needs to play more in the 4th quarter just to gain that experience. Trust me, Bynum will be in the 4th quarter come playoff time. I would rather have a Bynum with a lot more experience and possibly a few more Ls than a Bynum that's never really felt pressure.
I would go as far as during an upcoming close game, draw a play for Bynum. Make or miss, he gains that experience. At some point in the future we are going to rely on Bynum in the clutch. He needs to learn how to finish games the right way to lead the team to a W.
GO LAKERS
Posted by: mrbarneydangles | January 10, 2009 at 04:24 PM
So, X, is Tebow coming back?
Posted by: exhelodrvr | January 10, 2009 at 04:27 PM
Kiwi (hope you get better from the flu),
The point also from Tex's article is that without handchecking, it is much harder to guard perimeter players than it was back in the 80's and 90's. Plus you got bigs there who weren't hounded in by Defensive 3 seconds rule. As long as they were within arm length of the big man you can still stay in the paint which was harder than it is now with defensive 3 seconds.
Sure the free throws hasn't risen significantly but that does not show that perimeter players are getting to the basket more with ease than it was back in the 80's and 90's.
Sure Jordan got more free throws but look at the comparisons between him and Kobe's 35ppg season. Jordan shot 48% compared to Kobe's 45%. Kobe had to use more 3 pointers (6 per game) while Jordan shot less than 1 per game and played more inside. Had Kobe been as athletic as Jordan, then he would too get to the line as much as Jordan did back in 1986.
The Knicks and Pistons were the best defensive team besides the Russell led Celtics. This Boston team is good make no doubt about it but amongst the best? Please. MANY good passing teams would have their way with the Celtics especially old school. The Showtime Lakers are one combined with the 90's Bulls. The West-Baylor-Chamberlain team would also stand a good chance as well. I also feel that Adelman's Sacramento Kings in 2002 would also stand a good chance at beating the current Celtics. Adelmen's Rockets team nearly beat the Celtics in Houston and that was when the Celtics were still a top 3 team. The Lakers beat the "Celtics" defense with superior passing something the Pistons of the 80's were defeated by. And now the Celtics defense is exposed and they are in a mental funk.
And Reggie Miller himself said this (actual TNT wording):
"Because of the new rules where you can't handcheck, or put your hands on players, he's able to roam free up and down the court"
Players can't always put their hands on the other player knowing it will cause a foul.
---no handchecking, less contact = easier scoring
Also the players in the 80's and 90's were much better than the ones today (my opinion). Back then were legends from Larry Bird to Magic Johnson to lesser known ones from Clyde Drexler to Adrian Dantley. Those guys would eat much of the NBA guys of today.
Even some ones like Dale Ellis before his accident would have lit up the league today to Len Bias had he not been killed to even Glen Rice who was a great fundamental shooter would tear up the league of today.
Is it extreme? Not as extreme but this league is less physical, easier scoring on perimeter players, and simply not as good as the 60's, 70's, 80's, and even 90's were.
-blitz
Posted by: kobeblitz | January 10, 2009 at 04:31 PM
GSW and Indiana don't have good interior defenses so we saw the Lakers going to Pau and Drew more often the last 2 games, but I wish the Lakers would do that more consistently and work on that throughout the season even when facing teams with stronger interior defenses.
I think the Lakers don't work on it as much as they should because they have good outside shooters - Kobe, Fish, Vlad, Sasha, Rad, Luke, LO.
But turning Pau and Drew into dominant offensive forces inside will open up the court even more for our perimeter shooters in the future. Can you imagine if teams feel they have to double Drew or Pau inside?
What if both Drew and Pau have to be doubled?
That would free up Kobe so much.
That's what made the 3peat team so indefensible.
The last twin towers team that was dominant was the Robinson-Duncan duo of the Spurs, winning 2 NBA championships. That was a defense oriented team that played at a slower offensive pace. Part of that was because they did not have a star perimeter player like Kobe, but they also tried to surround Duncan/Robinson with a bevy of outside shooters.
At this point, Drew and Pau are not the defensive combo that Robinson-Duncan were and they may never be. At this point though Drew-Pau are closer on offensive potential to the Spurs duo. But the entire Spurs offense was based on their inside presence whereas the Laker offense is more varied and plays at a much faster pace.
I think PJ has been trying to be more like the Spurs offensively speaking with his starting lineup of Bynum, Gasol, Vlad or Luke, Kobe and Fish that plays at a slower more deliberate tempo. Then switching to a faster tempo w/the Farmar, Sasha, Ariza, LO bench. It's still a work in progress which we may see again when everybody gets healthy.
I think it will benefit Drew and Pau to watch video of Duncan and Robinson working together to see how 2 premier 7 foot post players can work together. Pau has as much of a medium distance game as Tim, and Drew's developing jumpshots remind me of Robinson's. Now, they need to learn twin tower defense from this Spurs' duo.
Posted by: LakerinBC | January 10, 2009 at 04:35 PM
mrbarney,
"Bynum needs to play more in the 4th quarter just to gain that experience. "
When he is ready for it. If he shows better defensive techniques earlier in the game, he'll be in it at the end.
Posted by: exhelodrvr | January 10, 2009 at 04:54 PM
AK,
Thanks for chiming in. Actually, I agree now that Phil isn’t not playing Drew for any motivational reasons. I am concerned because I think we went away from a long-time tenant regarding matchups that we make the opponent adjust to us rather than our adjusting to them. I don’t mean you never adjust because sometimes you have to but the overall goal is to force the other team to adjust. As Brian said on the Live Blog, who on the Pacers was going to guard Drew. I think we all agree that it is foolish to try and go small and matchup with the Warriors and Pacers of the league, especially when we have an inside duo like Drew and Pau. I mean it is not like when all we had to post up was Kwame and Lamar against the Suns. LOL.
Anyway, I am encouraged by Drew’s recent better play. The Lakers are doing as well overall as I expected despite Drew not being the Beast that I was counting on when I looked at this year. But thankfully what has happened is that Pau Gasol has been a perfect fit for the Lakers and is having a career year. That is really bad news for the rest of the NBA in my opinion because now when Bynum gets back to the level he was playing before he was injured, he may still be only the third option and third best player on the team because of how great Pau is playing. Bottom line, the Lakers evolved into a great team this year even without the Beast because Pau Gasol is transforming himself from the Spaniard to the Conquistador.
Of course, the irony hovering in the background is that the Lakers might have to wait until next year because King Crab may leapfrog the Shamrock Kryptonite plagued Celtics to steal MVP and the NBA Championship from Kobe and Pau and Lakers. I am sure that is going to be a storyline adopted by most of the East coast media over the next few weeks. The critical element in this scenario is that the Lakers opportunity to avenge themselves versus Boston may not materialize and the Lakers may instead have to face LeBron and the Cavaliers in the NBA Finals. It will be a shame if that happens even though I think the Lakers will have an easier time beating the Cavs than they would have beating the Celtics. LeBron is great but he is not enough to win the championship considering the quality of his teammates. Anyway, JMNSHBO!
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | January 10, 2009 at 04:59 PM
I think Drew feels that he IS ready to play important 4th qtr minutes, but Phil doesn't. That cant be good for the kids confidence, especially after scoring 20 pts thru 3 qtrs yesterday.
Now is the time for him to gain that experience. Remember he wasn't there in the playoffs last year. I'd rather he learns in now than in May/June.
A confident Andrew Bynum will help develop him into the offensive/defensive beast we're all hoping to see
Posted by: SOOPAFLY | January 10, 2009 at 05:11 PM
Laker Tom,
No, I hear what you're saying. If you look at the live blog comments, I also wanted Phil to put Drew back in the game, for basically the same reasons you and BK did. I just wanted to reassure that it's a game management issue of Phil's you don't agree with, as opposed to a "mind games" issue. One may or may not be better (since the result is ultimately most important), but there's a difference.
AK
Posted by: kambrothers | January 10, 2009 at 05:15 PM
I don't understand why the media isn't pointing to the Celtic collapse as the Lakers dagger.
They won 19 straigt games before that happened, and have since lost 7 out of 9. Seriously, that game was a lot more important than people/media/celtics are giving credit.
That game destroyed their mojo, their confidence and it shows. They haven't regained it even after over 2 weeks now.
We will do the same to the Cavs here in about a week.
Go Lake show.
Posted by: Long Live Chick | January 10, 2009 at 05:22 PM
Last night, I questioned PJ's call at not having Drew in for the 4th quarter but after thinking about it more, I think PJ was correct.
Last night, the Lakers were not having a problem on offense, as they were virtually scoring on the Pacers at will. The problem was the Pacers were also scoring on the Lakers so the problem was defense.
Putting Drew in with Pau at the same time, would have made the Laker's offence better especially w/Sasha's poor shooting but the Laker's offence did not need much improvement, it was the defence that needed improvement.
Still, the defence was not all that great with Vlad Rad and Sasha, but versus the Pacers it might have been worse with Drew and Pau in at the same time. Normally, a Drew/Pau twin towers defence (once they figure it out) should be an asset especially versus the physical EC teams like Cavs and Celtics, but can be a liability against perimeter shooting motion offense and transition offense teams such as what the Pacers have. The current Pacers look more like a typical WC team.
Tomorrow, I am hoping that Drew will have a great game versus the Miami Heat as the Heat game earlier in the year was one in which he definitely underachieved. The Heat don't have a powerful interior either so the smalls should be feeding Drew and Pau inside all night long.
I just hope Drew does not get into foul trouble on defense as Wade will be driving into the lane every chance he gets and the refs will be whistling fouls everytime anyone sneezes on him.
Posted by: LakerinBC | January 10, 2009 at 05:41 PM
Blitz...thank you for the kind wishes and response.
Regading the freethrows I was challenging Winters comment that the guys need all these extra free throws to get forty.It would appear to be innaccurate
Certainly the lack of handchecking favours offensive players on the perimeter but my point is that there are other factors making it tougher for star perimeter players that may balance it out in ways that people dont stop to think about...for example the number of players being encouraged to really study game tape and technology making it easier to see,pinpoint,collect and display information on opposing players and how to defend them.You've seen the articles on the explosion of the job of the video analyst guys? This has become far more sophisticated and far more commen...
The level of time money and technology MUST make a difference.Things do advance thats why that guy with the celitcs is being hailed as a guru in the same way Winter was with the triangle offence...everything moves on.New sneakers lighter jersey's better stretches,drills,psychology.Name a sport where the standard doesn't improve over time in a general sense? or the athleticism of the participants doesn't increase.
I mean you tell me... Larry Bird or Lebron freeeking James?
Sure there are exceptions...Shaq,Scottie Pippen.These guys were just freaks in terms of their physical gifts and come around a lot more rarely...but generally speaking this league is much more athletic and takes the best players from the world over - not just the USA
You choose to attribute Jordan playing more inside and shooting more freethrows to his superior athleticism but was he really that much difference between him and Kobe that Jordan could do all that and do it in an era where the defense was not just tougher but significantly tougher? and if the D was that good could it not be at least considered that the reason they couldnt defend him wasn't his athleticism but becasue they had wayyyyy less idea how to defend against his freakish game which was unheard of at the time but is not so new anymore.is there not a slight chance that even if the D was better then...the D to stop superstar shooting guards with freakish athletic abilites was worse?
If the hand checking made such a difference how did Jordan ever get inside in the first place.
And i wasn't talking about this years celics but last years championship squad who even before the playoffs began I remember reading some crazy statistics on them saying it was the best defensive team ever by a long way.The writer (Hollinger maybe) was predicting that they win the title because of this.Of course I forgot about it until I saw what that defense did to Lebron then Kobe...Jordan never faced a defense like that.
Anyway we can disagree on this fine by me...i'm not even sure that I'm right but I think there are alot of assumptions being made that should at least be questioned and analysed more thoroughly.
Posted by: Kiwi (recovering from the killer flu) | January 10, 2009 at 05:49 PM
ABOUT DEFENSE AND REFS…
Been a lot of talk about the difference in rules for perimeter defense now versus years ago. The current NBA rules have the refs calling fouls on perimeter defenders for the slightest even incidental contact making it nearly impossible to stop a great player on the perimeter while players inside the paint are allowed to bludgeon each other with complete immunity.
OK. As unfair as the rule is, I can see how it would foster more wider open offensive games that most players and fans would find more fun and entertaining. The problem in my mind is more what the refs rule when the perimeter and interior games collide, such as when Chris Paul or Dwayne Wade drive into the paint and jump into opposing big men and are immediately awarded free throws, which often changes the dynamics of the game.
To my mind, when the perimeter player leaves the perimeter, he leaves the perimeter rules behind and must now play by the inside rules. That is the way it works when a big man shows on a pick and roll and is called for trying to impede the ball carrier. When you are in the paint, however, simple and incidental contact that does not affect the shot and/or was solely initiated by the perimeter player should not be considered to be a foul.
My other gripe about the perimeter rules is that they are not equally applied. While Kobe gets a lot of touch foul and shoots more free throws than a handful of players, the stark reality is that he also is manhandled and beaten up without getting called more than any other player in the league. Anybody who watches the game can see that. It’s only fool who think just because Kobe got 10 free throws that he shouldn’t have gotten 15 or 20. Touch Wade or LeBron or CP3 and you get the whistle. Pound on Kobe Bryant and you’re touted as a great defender and allowed to do whatever you have to in order to even the odds.
As always, JMNSHBO!
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | January 10, 2009 at 06:07 PM
blitz -
Hate to reference other people's opinions, but since you broached the subject, in comparing MJ to Kobe, two of MJ's former teammates have compared Kobe favorably to MJ - Steve Kerr and BJ Armstrong. Both of these guys played closely with MJ, and both obviously have seen Kobe play. Now, I don't know what incentive they would have to give anything other than their honest opinion, so here's what Kerr had to say : "Michael was more explosive, and he's by far the greatest player ever, but in baseball parlance, Kobe's "stuff" might be a little better."...
"The hand checking rule has made life much easier on perimeter players these days. But for the past 20 years or so, I've had a front-row seat watching the world's best players, and I'm telling you that Kobe would have been fantastic in any era. I'm sure Rodman and Pippen would have given Kobe a good challenge, but Byrant would have scored on those guys at will, too. He has no weaknesses, and he's incredibly competitive."
BJ Armstrong also put Kobe up there with Jordan in an ESPN chat.
SO, it's not insult to include Kobe near Jordan in terms of skill.
Anyway, I don't necessarily put too much stock in other's opinions, but there you have it from two players who played right next to MJ.
Posted by: Amazing_Happens | January 10, 2009 at 06:10 PM
Lamar will be out of a month at least. You heard it here first
Posted by: zen | January 10, 2009 at 06:20 PM
t-mac and ron ron r not playing today. hope they r off till tuesday. the lakers will have an easier game in the b2b. next day is san antonio.
so even without LO, we can survive this.
Posted by: ouchhhhhhhhh | January 10, 2009 at 06:25 PM
Two things I noticed watching the post-game last night:
Drew did not want to be interviewed last night. I forget the sideline reporter's name but Drew wasn't even looking at him for half of the interview in the locker room. He was acting like a kid who was getting a talking to by his parents and wanted to be anywhere but there. Either he had someplace he wanted to be or something else is going on. In a lot of his recent interviews, he answers them with just a touch of disdain. I think Drew has moved beyond PT boosting his confidence. He's got the confidence. I think he's moved into just plain resenting the lack of PT. The kid is building up some anger.
Powell was just the opposite. He was really polite. Called the reporter "sir". He talked about how lucky he was to be in this situation.
Posted by: lakers_sth | January 10, 2009 at 06:35 PM
The next 5 games is a serious gauntlet.
Miami, Hou, SAS, Orlando, Cleveland.
Lakers need to bring their hard hats. We're going to see exactly where this team is at in the next week. Injuries or not. They have to play the games they're given.
I think the one thing we won't have to worry about is that every team will have the Lakers' attention.
Posted by: lakers_sth | January 10, 2009 at 06:50 PM
I think Rodney King said it best :
"C-c-can`t we all just get along?"
Posted by: RED`S LOVE CHILD | January 10, 2009 at 06:53 PM
Kobe has a better set of offensive weapons. However, he is not is strong as Jordan, and his hands are smaller. That limits what he can do driving. He is probably not as good a defensive player as Jordan, either, but it's hard to tell with that since Jordan played alongside probably the best all-time perimeter player.
Posted by: exhelodrvr | January 10, 2009 at 06:59 PM
What's better than 1 Celtic Loss?
2 Celtic losses?!
ahahaha....loving their losing streak.
Posted by: Korey | January 10, 2009 at 07:02 PM