Mike T.,

They are doing great as a team. You may be right that they do not have that power forward similar to Artest but it can be developed by a defense oriented coach. I'm wondering why Kurt Rambis has not developed them in that state. Why will trade the barn if that is the problem? Don't you agree that this group of players today are much improved bunch than the players we were discussing three seasons ago & you said that they are coming around. Remember that phrase.

Let us also give a benefit of the doubt that we are only in Dec. 4th, just one month old, it takes time for the groove to develop and stabilize the structure. As long as it is being voiced out and not hidden, eventually there will be a solution to that apparent problem. The coaches have said it, the players noticed it, the bloggers are concerned, that will come into conclusion before April, 2009. Our chances today is better than the team of Rudy Tomja. or the first two years of PJ, it is night and day in comparison.

Jon,

Tractor? No, don't think so...

Now if you proposed a trade that sent Luke to Miami for Marc Blount and Jamal Magnum Magloire I'd say youza genius man!

Mike T is a freaking comedian; keep up the good work, my friend.

Wait, so your're telling me he's serious? And he writes poetry?

Floyd,
"trying to time an orgasm with that buzzer beater at the end of the game has only been successful a few times"

LMAO

You randy ol' fart!

Thanks, AK. I just read a comment that pslakerfan posted in a previous thread about going through you guys because he can't post his e-mail -- Sorry.

Thanks, pslakerfan. I'll contact you.

Because they're stupid and they will panic. Not because of wins and losses. But because how of they won't be able to deny their defensive problems.

mike t.

Posted by: Michael C. Teniente | December 04, 2008 at 04:26 PM

Huh? Not a respectable post. Rude.

lakers_st,

"The chess move is back on us. Now we adjust and we keep figuring out how we hold these teams down under 100 points and do the things that we need to do."

~~ What I know about basketball during my playing days in the intramurals that it is fulfilling and exciting to go on offense at all times. People are concerned how many points did you make than how many R or how many shots did you block? Most playground games are centered on offense than defense. Defense is connoted to dirty tactics or physical plays employed by the Bad Boys Detroit Pistons because in basketball a defense without bruising, pushing actics will be a haphazard defense. Problem in NBA, you can't touch anybody. On the first game of the Lakers against the Blazers, I was impressed the way they surrounded Oden and had the time to prevent Brandon Roy or Aldridge from shooting. Vlad & LO were active, Farmar and Ariza crowds the ball handlers. Therefore, Lakers are capable of employing a hard d if they want to. However, lately Vladrad, Pau and LO including the great one, Kobe were tentatives on their moves. I was watching them in the last two games, they were not sure whether to guard their man or go on double teaming therefore they were in between two players. They become a fence sitter guarding the paint. This was outlined by Reggie Miller in one of the TNT telecasts, as such, team scouts sensed that play and adjusted their offense with it. Therefore, it was a game of adjustments but this is not 7 game series.

Another problem, Lakers got ENGROSSED with the fast break, two or three passes lead to an easy alley hoop to the delight of the crowd. While a hard D could sit them soonest. The fast break is an all offense mode and adrenalin always on the go. You will notice this from Farmar, Sasha, LO and Trevor, any mishap at the back court, the other three are on the way out there. What happens then, an early offense, sacrifices the defense in the back court. Going back to your chess analogy a premature offense opens up the defense of the King. Too much defense sacrifices positional advantage for offense. You have to strike a balance.

How can we resolve this dilemma? Go back to the basic of that 1st game how a productive team like the Blazers were confined to less than 100. It takes a lot of efforts on part of our big 3 (Kobe, Bynum and Gasol) show d as the mojo in winning games, PJ should emphasize d at all times then the role players will follow. Consequently, PJ has to play also Powell, Mihm and MBenga even for short minutes, not at the same time but mixed with his rotations. You can't teach height on these players, they already have it, all they do is block a small players and get rebounds. As such, all pieces are fully utilized when a Coach uses other assets just for defensive purposes alone.

Lakergurl,

"Huh? Not a respectable post. Rude."

As long as it's not aimed at a blogger...Lakers players, management and ownership are free game.

They are stupid!

Unless your Jeanie Buss blogging under Lakergurl, then you have a right to be upset because then it would be personal. Forgive me, Jeanie!

If you're a Lakers cheerleader blogging under Lakergurl, that doesn't qualify you as a player, management or ownership. So you can't take my "rude" post personal.

And one more thing. Remember who your talking to. I'm mike t! Who the hell are you? LOL!

I make and I break the "rules" at my good pleasure. : )

mike t.

BK,

You're a professional in the sports field, so your opinion will carry more weight than mine. So please consider this scenario...

We fast forward to just after the Celtics/Lakers game on Christmas day. The Lakers lose to the Celts, and after the game, someone who is knowledgeable of the NBA sees you and asked you this question..."Based on what you saw today and what you know of previous games played, do you think this current Laker team (disregarding key trades or injuries) can defeat either the Pistons or the Celtics in a 7 game, championship series?

What would your honest answer be?

Eric,
"Would you agree that in-game adjustments are just as important? "

No. Because preparation does away with the need for the majority of in-game adjustments. If players haven't been prepared, in-game changes tend not to work.

If you had to choose between two coaches; one who did a great job preparing, but wasn't very good at in-game adjustments vs. one who did a poor job preparing, but was great at making changes "on the fly", the smart choice would be to go with the preparer.

PHX:

GIVES UP 105 POINTS with a BIG BODY!

2000'S+ BIG MEN ROLE REDUCED ON DEFENSE (DEFENSIVE 3 SECONDS)

BOSTONS' ANCHOR DEFENDER=KEVIN GARNETT NOT KENDRICK PERKINS

Some of us still live in the 1980's and 1990's when the big man was a factor.

-blitz

"I am convinced that the Lakers can not win a championship with Phil Jackson at the helm............His ego convinces him that he can open today's locks with yesterdays keys...................."-pfunk

So if the Lakers win this title, please feel free to remind everyone that you know nothing about coaching....

Cuz you are sure are doing a good job of making sure that everyone knows you know everything about coaching.

Man, I had a great ol time reading this thread. A good long off day of good points, less good points, and earnest and respectful discussion. makes me proud to be a laker fan. Of course, I don't post very often, except during game chat, as I neve seem to be able to make as good a point as people routinely throw out. But I did want to make an effort, so this is my contribution, written lovingly and without malice. just for y'alls reading enjoyment. I will repost on a later thread for anyone who doesn't read all the way down on this here. If anyone feels offended or put out, please remember the two greatest lines of wisdom from two of humanity's greatest philosopher's "Do unto other's as you would have them do unto you" -Jesus, and "F*(^ em if they can't take a joke" Willie Nelson.

I think that almost all of us can sympathize with the K Bros for the staggering and mind-bending task of reading each and every post on this blog before they can be cleared for post. I have, in fact, noticed that nearly 45.6% (made up statistic alert) of their thread leads are dedicated at least in part to a combination of sarcastic observation, concise analysis and pleas for reason reminiscent of Kevin Spacey’s character in “The Negotiator” aimed at the ridiculous number of blog members like the schizoid-paranoid denunciations of players, coaches and sundry from tin foil hat wearers. The morbid and dire predictions of doom and gloom from apocalyptic foretellers. And vague questions from otherwise well-meaning Lakers fans about possibly imaginary characteristics derived from Survivor songs that may be lacking from our beloved Lakers, the absence of which could doom us all to another year without an O’Brien Trophy.

And worst of all, of course, the predictable loose stool effluent that overflows the levees of good sense after each and every (thankfully rare) loss. If the Lakers lose to an inferior team, this is proof that they lack the killer intensity and focus required. If they lose to a “rival western power” or Stern forbid an “Eastern conference powerhouse” this is proof that they will never surmount the last bastion defending the crown against all good teams and their Stern-fearing fans.

So, in an altruistic effort to help the much overworked K Bros, and perhaps spare many of the rest of us blog crew the eyeball strain, and aided by the predictability of some of the more distinguished purveyors of post- loss-dreck, I have prepared an easy, one size fits all summation of blog posts, with a Cliffs Notes inspired accessibility for reading comfort.

phred’s ULTIMATE POST LOSS GUIDE TO A “TROLL, TROLL-LIKE OR JUST ANNOYING” LAKERS BLOG POSTER.
(In no particular order)

THE BUTLER
Man, that game showed how the Lakers have a long way to go before they can reach the levels of the suns and the big game-skipper. I was cheering for the lakers after their last 12 wins in a row, but since that one loss, I am going to point out how glad I am to be a Suns fan. Cause the Suns rock. Not, you know, in the standings, but you know, karmically.
P.S. Can I still post here during the lakers wins? Cause otherwise I get lonely.

THE CELTICS FAN
HA HA you [expletive deleted] Fakers fans. You just lost to a team that isn’t nearly as good as the Celtics, or the actual Celtics, and you suck. I am glad that my team has enabled me to forget the overall pathetic nature of my life, and I look down on the rest of you. And Paul Pierce is not only much better than Kobe, he, KG and Ray Allen, or possibly Kendrick Perkins if this occurs during one of the 12 weeks of the season that Ray Allen misses due to injuries stemming from his rapidly aging knees, could beat Michael Jordan, Wilt, and Jesus Christ in a game of three on three. Yeah, you [expletive deleted] fakers fans, you suck.

THE KOREY
This game showed us why the lakers are soft; they play without effort, and all those other games they won due to dumb luck. They need to cut pau, Lamar, Drew, DFish, Jordan, Vlad, The Machine, and if that doesn’t work, Kobe. Then they need to replace them with “hard” players that come to play every night and never lose a game. I’m sure they are all over the place. Frankly, I’m kind of disappointed in Mitch for not being able to sign more of them, they’re so damn common. The only player that can’t be cut is Luke, because then I would be completely out of people to blame after a loss.

THE never/troy/passionate lakers fan AFTER A FEW STIFF ONES
We are terrible. My god. I think we will never win again, and Jerry Buss will have to start selling pencils on the street. I can’t believe how bad we suck. There are YMCA kid’s leagues teams that would put 120 on us. Sweat merciful crap, anybody who considers this team to be worth rooting for should be institutionalized for their own protection. I hate watching this team play. Frankly, I hate basketball. My wife and kids constantly have to punch holes in the plastic bag I put over my head whenever I think about this team. God we are terrible.

THE NEIL (CAN BE CONVERTED TO A “GUNNER” BY CAPITALIZING ALL LETTERS)
We lost this game because of Kobe. He both hogged the ball and shot way too much, or he refused to play with any aggression at all. And he kept passing the ball to others players and yelling at them when they missed shots, or made shots for that matter. Or he didn’t give them any feedback after a play. And then he wouldn’t pass the ball at all and just kept jacking up shots from the other end of the court before the shot clock even started. His selfishness and simultaneous inability to discern when exactly he should take over the game and shoot on every possession is the only factor keeping us from winning every game this year. And don’t get me started on those air balls in Utah in his rookie season.

THE KL BEAST
RAWR! GRUNT! KL BEAST SMASH!

THE PFUNK/CHUCK23/COMPTON’S FINEST/GENERIC PHIL LOATHER
Phil’s monstrous ego and inability to coach during a game is killing us. Literally every substitution he made was wrong. When Vlad was playing well, he took him out and put in a cold player. When Vlad was playing well and he didn’t take him out and he then missed two shots in a row, that killed us. Phil! Take a time out! Take a time out! Put Fisher in! No, not now!, it’s too late, don’t take a time out! Why did you take Farmar out and put in Fisher? He was just getting hot! I should coach this team! I’m sure the players wouldn’t bludgeon me to death with the Gatorade cooler, at least not for a couple of quarters!

AND LAST BUT NOT LEAST
THE MIKE T.
I will list twenty-two possessions that I have scrupulously recorded during the Laker’s four losses in their last twenty five games. In each possession I will outline clearly why that fool’s gold Andrew Bynum lacked the physicality and general calf tone to defend against dominant post players. I’m not going to do that, now, but I could. I will then give examples from the twenty- two minutes of actual basketball that Kwame played in the last twelve Piston’s games where he performed defensive maneuvers that Bynum and Gasol couldn’t dream of on their best day. I mean, I won’t, but I could, and will at some point. Just wait.

There, I hope that helped y’all. You guys can just copy and paste those in instead of wasting time writing it out after every loss. If I missed anybody, be sure and let me know, and I’ll do what I can.

SERIOUSLY THOUGH, THIS WAS A LABOR OF LOVE.
I LOVE EACH AND EVERY ONE OF YOU, TRUE LAKERS FANS THAT YOU ARE (WELL, EXCEPT THE C’S FANS AND BUTLER)

IT IS ALL ABOUT THE LOVE

GO LAKERS

Jon,

Hey, listen it’s all in fun and I don’t mean any malice. But for some reason, I do “hate” the Clippers, maybe due to their arrogance to proclaim a few years ago that they were actually better than the Lakers, maybe in response to what I perceived as your and AK’s constant rooting for the Clippers and rating certain of their players as better than certain Lakers.

To me, the Clippers were not a well constructed team. Their pieces did not sum up to more than their components. In my mind, all those Clipper players you and AK raved about were grossly overrated. Elton Brand, give me a break, the guy has evolved into a practically worthless player with questionable loyalty and desire to win. Kaman has been a bust ever since he signed that big contract. I won’t even start on Livingston, who would never have been a Lakers point guard because he point blank could never shoot.

So anyway, this is my last “Clippers Suck” post out of respect for your affection for the team. Count me in with Floyd. I only bled purple and gold. There can only be ONE team. I don’t have the time, energy, or interest to waste on another team, especially one like the Clippers, whose owner would rather make a bigger profit than turn out a better product.

Anyway, peace, Jon. The Clippers don’t deserve even part of a fan as passionate as you.

Tom

Laker Tom,

Chris Kaman averaged 15/13 and 3 blocks last season. That's a bust season? Even this season, his 14/9/2 is on par with Drew (albeit in five extra minutes per game, although that's not a drastic difference)

And respectfully, while Brand has definitely been off to a bad start this season, his career- basically a 20/10 machine- stacks out considerably better than LO, the guy you always compared him to. As much as I think Lamar has taken some unfair criticism over the years, nobody with a modicum of objectivity would say otherwise. Yes, EB screwed the Clips over, but that's got nothing to do with his play. And he was nothing if not a good soldier for several years. I don't blame him for wanting to leave. He just handled it very poorly.

I don't say this to "talk up" the Clips (my loyalty is always first with the Lakers and I don't consider them a rivalry to begin with), but dude, you gave more respect to Thabo Shefolosa before the guy even played an NBA minute than you've ever given Brand. You've even given more respect to Sun Yue, who hasn't clocked a D-League minute. I realize you don't like the Clips, but at least pretend to make a fair analysis. It doesn't make you any less of a Laker fan.

AK

Hey Butler,

That's 4 in a row for losses!

Lose against Utah and you owe me a Budweiser!

Sorry I forget since you probably are too young you can give me instead your computer! :).

If Utah losses then heck you get a "Good job for beating an injury plagued team hehe"

-blitz

Troy just drop it man,

Basically people are complaining about a 15-2 start just have too much time.

When we went to the Finals in 2008 NOBODY expected us to be there.

Now we are doing well yet you just keep complaining how we suck. Sheesh cmon man just enjoy the damn games!

Why don't you look at the Suns blog where Butler cannot be seen. THOSE are the guys like you should be complaining about (and will actually have a point).

Since you want to compare records though why don't you compare the PIstons regular season vs the Heat's back in 2005-2006 season.

1-3 the 2006 Miami Heat and only won their game by 2 points.

In the ECF they beat the Pistons 4-2.

ANYTHING could happen regardless of past record.

-blitz

Edwin Guerco,

I'd never want to take away from the Lakers to help the Clippers.

Laker Tom,

I'm sorry, bro. You're being a jerk. It must be the Bay Area fog.

Laker Nation,

Michael T. has made some mistakes, but he has a lot to offer. Let's not jump on him too much. Be respectful. He makes some good points. Forrgive him about his response to Andrew Bynum's injury.

Passion can lead us all to astray.

Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.

GO LAKERS!

Under achievement of Andrew Bynum??

Sheesh man I thought you were a rational blogger if too negative but that takes the cake.

Just because he only gets 3 rebounds the 76ers makes him under achieving?

And your negativity is not cool dude.

For all I care we could beat Boston at Christmas yet lose the finals. Ever think of that??

Plus I told you already Detroit whooped the Heat in the regular season back in 05-06 yet lost to them. Or will you ignore that and be another revistionist just support your argument?

We need to win games NOW so we can get as MUCH ADVANTAGE WE CAN AGAINST THE CELTICS OR WHOEVER COMES FROM THE EAST IN TERMS OF HOME COURT ADVANTAGE.

(Detroit is no longer an elite team. Sure they beat us but that does not make them the better team.)

Here's another suggestion to you Troy boy:

GO CHEER FOR THE SUNS (Not because you are a Sun fan) AND FEEL THE PAIN OF TRYING TO GET WINS BEFORE YOU DECIDE TO SAY WE AREN'T GOING TO WIN NO MORE TITLES EVER AGAIN.

-blitz

AK,

Thought I would hear from you. LOL. What can I say? I like some players and dislike others. Additionally, the college they went to and team they play for probably adds some bias. And I do bristle when a player, his team, his fans, or just admirers like you and Jon, wrongly (in my mind) think they are better than a player I like on the Lakers. Never said I was fair or unbiased. But it is just my opinion and I am not shy about sharing it.

I never liked Elton Brand when he was at Duke. Hell, I don’t like any players from Duke. Duke players never are as good a pro as they are collegians. Brand is a jump shooter and overrated in my opinion. I mean, look at him now. He is not even playing well less at all. And I never thought Kaman was anywhere near the prospect nor would ever be the player that I thought Drew would become.

I said back then that I would take Lamar over Brand and Drew over Kaman any day. You went the other way. With all due respect, I think the facts today speak for themselves. The Lakers would not trade Lamar Odom for Elton Brand and they would laugh at the prospect of trading Andrew Bynum for Chris Kaman. There is a reason that all of those players that you and Jon touted as so great with the Clippers never won anything when they were with the Clippers or since leaving them.

Elton Brand, Chris Kaman, Shawn Livingston, Quentin Ross, et al. Frankly, listening to you guys rave about that Clippers team and crown them as equal to or better than the Lakers because they won 1 more game 1 year was just like listening to Butler talk about how Goran Dragic is going to be the next great point guard or Robin Lopez is better than Drew or Shaq the MVP. Anyway, you’re entitled to your opinion. To me, all those Clippers were vastly overrated and the chickens have come home to roost. The Clippers never were and will never be anything but a joke compared to the Lakers.

Tom

LT,

As long as you're willing to concede that...

a) You're not even trying to be objective and you have an automatic distaste for anything Clippers, which totally shapes your viewpoint...

b) My opinion- right or wrong- isn't based in any rooting interest, but on how I think these guys actually play...

These are your thoughts and you're more than entitled.

But again, because you continue to misrepresent what I said (which is very annoying, by the way), I never said Kaman was definitely the better prospect than Bynum. I said I'd trade Bynum for Kaman if you needed help two seasons ago, because he was more ready to contribute at the moment. Which he clearly was. And respectfully, Brand vs. LO two seasons ago wasn't even a close comparison. You were the only person on this entire blog who thought Lamar was the better player. You can't take Brand's current down season to validate your point in the summer of 2006. That's beyond intellectually dishonest. Not to mention, in my opinion, still inaccurate.

Also, Brand "down season" is still 17/10, which represents LO's career best year, if you want to be technical about this. He's struggling by his own career standards, but it's a standard that's always been higher than Lamar's.

Again, I've always felt Lamar has taken too much flak as a Laker, but I won't let him being a Laker cloud my judgment. And since you keep harping on Kaman and Brand never winning anything, what exactly have LO and Bynum done in the hardware department? Until last season, LO had never gone any further in the playoffs than Brand.

AK

I hope we can get Javaris Crittenton back. He's not getting a lot of PT in Memphis. I'm thinking we can trade Luke Walton for him?

troy-

You asked me a question, and I answered. I don't really care that they're 2-8 vs. Detroit, since games three years ago don't matter. Last year they split (including a one point loss in Detroit), this year they played a bad game against a hot shooting team and lost. As for Boston, like I said, they had opportunities to win last year, and certainly could have pushed the series to seven. Cleveland? They're set up to be a very tough challenge this season. I don't think the Lakers are a shoe in against any of the teams, nor do I think it's a guarantee the Celtics will make the Finals.

And I agree you can't just assume the Lakers are a Finals team themselves. But if you're asking me if they can beat any of those three EC teams in a seven game series, I think they can. They're currently a better team than the one that lost last year in the Finals. Obviously you don't agree, but that's my answer.

The Lakers have a defensive weakness against teams that go small and spread them out, one that needs to be addressed. They need to improve their focus and build towards the sort of consistency that makes championship teams. But it's silly to say they can't win, when a lesser team had a reasonable chance to make it happen last season.

BK

BLöG CRüE
Just dropping by, Good Night or Good Morning depending when you read this.

Snowy Colorado loves the Lakers!

AK,

I will concede that most people would take Brand over Lamar, maybe even today. To me, Brand is not a component that works to making a championship while I think that Lamar is. Elton is just not championship material to me. In the end it’s just a difference of opinion.

Hell, I am totally in agreement with you and BK probably over 90% of the time and I have made no secret that I am one of your biggest fans and supporters. You both are incredibly balanced and fair in your reporting and managing of the blog and the issues that arise.

To me, your opinions and assessments of the Clippers and their players were sycophantic, as if you allowed your familiarity and interaction with those Clipper players to seduce you into overrating them, compared not only to Lakers players but also to other team’s players.

Anyway, that’s how I perceived and why I always responded so strongly. I just thought that now that the team has been blown apart and many of the players in question discredited in many ways that you might now view your judgment as slightly suspect. Obviously, I was wrong. LOL. But then nobody has ever been able to win an argument against you. J/K.

At any rate, nobody can dispute that the Clippers are one of the worst franchises in sports despite receiving more lottery picks than any other team. And the players on that glorious Clippers team have disappeared in the same way as their 15 quick minutes of fame.

Tom