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Kings 113, Lakers 101: Stepping in cow patties

PROGRAMMING NOTE: Join us for Purple, Gold, and Blue at 11 am.  Our guest will be friend-of-the-blog Eric Pincus of Hoopsworld.  Listen via the show window at the side of the page, or join the chat by clicking here. 

Sacramento_kings_beat_los_angeles_l The Lakers ruined a few good pairs of shoes Tuesday night in Sacramento, that's for sure, playing by far their worst game of the season en route to a 113-101 loss to the Kings.  Pick a category, and it's likely the Lakers underperformed.  Offensively, they couldn't find a lick of rhythm in their offense, missing jumper after jumper as they fell behind early.  They turned the ball over (16 vs. 10 for Sacto).  They (specifically Andrew Bynum) couldn't stay out of foul trouble on a night where the matchups inside favored LA.  The box score shows a tough shooting night for Kobe Bryant, Trevor Ariza, and basically everyone on the team not named "Pau" or "Gasol."  They couldn't match the passion of Sacramento.  But most of all, the Lakers were terrible defensively, particularly against the pick and roll.  Wretched.  Abysmal.  Cataclysmic.  Go ahead and break out your Roget's, because there are plenty more outstanding descriptors, including some that can't be written on a family website, but that more accurately reflect the feelings of fans, coaches, and players alike. 

At least Lakers fans will have to do their part to help the struggling economy, as I'm sure a few TVs that got the Elvis treatment last night will have to be replaced this morning.  They'll look to bounce back tonight at Staples against a Shaq-less Phoenix Suns squad.

Another guy looking for a shot of redemption?  Sasha Vujacic. His minutes are down this season, and so is Vujacic's production.  Not a great combo. PJ believes he's pressing to show he belongs on the court.  It certainly wouldn't be out of character.  Not sure if you've noticed, but he can get a little tightly wound, our Sasha. 

Here's an interesting discussion of the difference between depth and talent vis a vis LA and the mean Green machine.  Of course, when it comes to depth, some argue that it's looking like the most bottomless team in the league actually resides in Cleveland.

In other news:

 
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What's funny about the Kings is that they always seem to have a bone to pick with us. I guess I don't blame 'em, but to be frank, the Lakers and Kings are headed in opposite directions, for a long time.

Good Morning Charles....Good Morning Everyone.....

Is it safe to be on the blog today?

well that sucked anal tissue...

classic trap game....Kings on an 8 game losing streak, biggest home crowd this season etc., etc., etc.

at least my inclusion of John Salmons on my list of players I would like to see in Purple and Gold is justified...

all Salmons would need to do a Sam The Sham tribute is a turban and a Vox Continental (you know the orange one with the reversed color keyboard)---I think he would be pretty adapt at Wolly Bully and Little Red Riding Hood as well as Ju Ju Hand and Ring Dang Doo , and not to leave out the sublime The Haitr On My Chinny Chin Chin.....

Hopefully tonight we see the vaunted FOCUS and DESIRE for 48 full minutes...

AS ALWAYS, AS EVER, YET ANOTHER GREAT DAY (AND SEASON) TO BE A LAKER FAN !!!

GO LAKERS !!!

What's funny about the Kings is that they always seem to have a bone to pick with us.
I guess I don't blame 'em, but to be frank, the Lakers and Kings are headed in opposite
directions, for a long time. Posted by: #4 | December 10, 2008 at 09:30 AM

Naw, The kings will be all right. As for that bone...Hey Sonny

John Salmons AKA Domingo "Sam" Samudio (from Dallas Texas)

the weird thing? I have music knowledge like that churning in my head, for better or for worse

GO LAKERS !!!


This ends the analysis. They won, we lost. Next.

Small ball tonight.
Will be W but I wouldn't bet on Tacos. I'll buy my own.

Impossible for me to talk about last night's game without getting my Chaplain title revoked. At this point, it's totally within reason and sanity to ask which pieces of our (allegedly) deep & high scoring bench do we trade for a tried and true defensive stopper.

Ugliest 17-3 record you've ever seen, ain't it?

Losing another one on the road is no surprise, if you refer to my post yesterday morning I just sensed that it was not a good day for the Lakers. Well, Sacto have lost 8 consecutive at home, Lakers won 17 and three consecutive before this one, so bases on probability analysis, it points to negative than positive possibilities. This applies to Celtics as well when they go on the road here in the West, their record of 2 losses will add up. You see there are such things as human factors, psychological tendencies and the will to win on part of Kings player. As you can see from the body language of Kings player, they want to prove something to the owner, they wish to protect their coach from being fired and lastly, wanted to get revenge against the best team in the West. It's all prestige all the way for just one good fleeting victory.

On the part of the Lakers, it confirms that they have lots of holes to fill up both from offense and defense. Perhaps, Kobe or PJ wanted to give away the game for the sake of Theuss and the precarious situation of franchise in Sacto who are averaging on 12K per game. What would happen if you lose one game or 3 out of 20, still a good record to be a contender. In the blog, the two extreme forces get back to the drawing board, one claims no chance for Championship when in fact they have the best record in the West and could be improved; while the other want get back to earth's gravity, no longer floating in space of invincibility. They too, will admit now that there are problems to be solved before betting all their assets. (That's a good measure of fandome - if you truly believe that this team will dominate the league, why not bet all your assets, money in the bank and go for all or nothing in Vegas during the recessionary times. It is either you become a homeless or double your money with your belief.) In my case, I have no money, a mere kibitzer and an incorrigible mischief maker sitting on the fense, flip-floppin' haha!

Strong side zone missing.
Cheating on defense: not good.
Lakers! Get on it!

Rick F.

"The coaching staff's attempts to rehabilitate the bench mob are totally backfiring. These guys are so tight, they're forcing everything in an attempt to please the coaches, instead of playing with a natural flow."

Good post. I've been thinking the same thing the last few games. Farmar gets to the basket, runs, and makes plays. If he is expect to walk the ball up like Ron Harper, Steve Kerr, or Fish, he will not prosper. Has PJ EVER had a fast Farmar/chris paul type of point guard?

Let's also not forget that Farmar, machine, and ariza brought the starters back from 9 down to even when they left in the second quarter. Then the starters went back down 5 at the half.

I'm writing a new Journal for this Lakers season. I call it:

The Road To The Championship: The Los Angeles Lakers Journal

Here's the link:

http://tinyurl.com/68k6w7

In this version of the Journal I break the game down into 4 minute segments.

To break it all down, the Lakers' don't run the triangle when they have any type of defensive resistance.

The triangle, I believe, is obsolete, and therefore PJ has to go.

mike t.

This game left a real bad taste in my mouth from the moment the Kings went up 11 - 2. We played ZERO defense. We displayed ZERO heart (except for Lamar tossing his lame head band aside). We exhibited ZERO discipline. If this team doesn't get it's sense of self-entitlement out of it's head and soul soon, I don't see us making the Finals. I think a team like San Antonio or Denver will manhandle us in a 7 game series as they bully their way around our ineffectual defense for lay ups and one. This was more than embarrasing. This was pathetic. Just pathetic. Outside of the offensive inefficiency and lack of movement, our defense has resorted to gambling for steals and whining when a guard gets rubbed off on a screen. If our guys can't handle this kind of basketball now, then I don't see us making much noise in the post-season.

Why do we settle for 20 foot jumpers 8 seconds into the shot clock before Bynum and Gasol get in position for a rebound? Why is our inside-out game looked for as a last resort? Our guards need to slip screens and let opposing guards settle for 20 footers...just like we've been doing. I can settle with getting beat by a team shooting the lights out from long range, but when they get lay up after lay up, after lay up, it's unwatchable, it looks like the Lakers of 2005-06. It's no wonder Bynum gets into foul trouble or his man is getting an open look, he either has to contest a lay up every 20 seconds or he gets exposed on the help rotation. I expect that sort of play by Farmar, he's under-sized and gets pushed around a lot out there, but from Fish? I expect much more.

Phil has to send a message to our guards. Play Sun over Farmar, start Farmar over Fisher, call up Joe Crawford and play Sun and Joe for a game or two. Something. A message needs to be sent. I'll allow that the moving pick is now a staple "play" in the league and I loved the Spencer Hawes 17 Steps in the Lane move (3rd quarter, I think) and the touch foul from Bynum on Garcia. I'd also like to point out that for an MVP, Kobe gets ZERO love from the referees. He must get hit more than any guard in the league, maybe it's in exchange for him being allowed a to play more aggressive D but, c'mon guys! Show the MVP some love.

In regards to Sasha being out of sorts I think three things are responsible.
1: He ain't a mystery any more, I'm sure he gets a 20 minute segment in the opposing teams strategy session and it's up to him to add another elemnet to his game to help himself get open and get that Machine revved.
2: He's looking to pass more this season. He seems to be working within the offense more than he did last year, by that I mean if he doesn't have an open look, he moves the ball.
3: He might have come back too soon and isn't letting on that he's laying hurt, or, he's trying to justify his contract.

People may disagree with me, but I think that Sasha is playing better PG than Farmar, he's been the one breaking back court pressure lately, he's dfending well and rebounding his position, he's looking to dump the ball inside. On the flip side, Farmar is dribbling for 6-10 seconds and then passing and standing at the 3 point line. I am not blaming our offensive stagnation on Farmar, lots of guys could be moving better on offense, but he is supposed to be a floor general. I just think he free-lances way too much for our system and he's under-sized as a defender. He also gripes at the refs waaaaaay too much.

Sorry this is mostly negative, as a rule I am a positive person and this is, after all, only basketball. But we all had such high hopes for this team and it seems like over the last two weeks they have become mired in inconsistency. For whatever reason the harmonius play that we showed last year is gone, the defense that we exhibited early on has been cast aside. We all want this team to succeed and I believe that they can with the current make-up. Having the 3rd best record in the league isn't horrible, but losing to teams like Indiana and Sac-Town is just unfathomable. Early on Lamar said that the only way this team should get beat is if a team comes out and beats them. With Detroit, I'd say that happened, they hit shots and played the best D since AI got there, but against Indiana and Sac-Town, we didn't come in ready to beat them, we came in expecting a win. To that I say bullcrap. Bull. Crap.

Peace.

As always, Mamba24, you are on point this morning. Thanks for the rousing roll-call, especially uplifting after last night's disappointing loss. But, hey, I'm disappointed after EVERY loss. I'm a Lakers fan, so I want them to win every night.

Lamar is looking especially fragile right now. I'd love to see him take advantage on the block tonight, get 12-18 boards and get his confidence back. That fadeaway jumper is looking pretty suspect right now...

One of my favorite things in the world (seriously) is watching the Suns lose. Especially to the Lakers.

Go Lake Show!

Wretched
Abysmal
Cataclysmic
Atrocious
Heinous
Dreadful
Awful
Flagitious
Scelestic
Maladroit
Feckless
Bumbling
Ineffective
Inferior
Excrable
Piteous
Woeful
Hapless
Crummy
Abominable
Ghastly

Lakers haven't played a good defensive game in about 2 weeks. I'm more prone to blame the players, but on this one, I've got to say I'm disappointed in the coaching staff since the problems seem rather apparent.

1) The defense is just awful. This has nothing to do with physicality or needing a beefy guy with calves of gold in the middle. This has to do with effort. On defense, the Lakers aren't putting out the effort to rotate more than once or twice, especially out to shooters. I can't even count how many times I saw the ball move yesterday as guys just decided they'd rather watch the shot go up than run out to contest it. Kobe is the #1 culprit. This is an effort thing, through and through, and the coaching staff needs to let the guys know that if they don't want to try, they can not try on the bench.

2) We continue to ignore the post. Again, Kobe is the main culprit. Rather than watch Kobe jack up 22 footers with a guy in his face, why not dump it in to Pau and Andrew who were, once again, wholly effective down low? The K brothers and many others have said over and over that the Lakers work best playing inside-out rather than outside-in and I totally agree. I'd be looking to get one of those two guys (or Kobe/Lamar depending on personnel and matchups) the ball on the blocks every trip down the court.

3) Our guards are still having a tough time with penetration. Normally Farmar is worse, but yesterday Fish just plain watched his guy go to the rim on several instances. This is not all his fault of course since there should be a guy that slides over to help immediately. But when we are constantly making Beno Udrih, Bobby Brown and John Salmons look like HOFers, there's something seriously wrong. I think the coaching staff needs to reinforce the P&R philosophy they had going at the beginning of the season (strong show from the bigs to push the guard out, sag in to the roller, guard recovers, big recovers).

4) Unnecessary gambles. I counted 3 times where Vlad for some unknown reason decided to leave his man cutting to the basket to try a blindside steal of Spencer Hawes or Brad Miller at the high post. On all three instances, the Kings burned Vlad for a score. Kobe, Ariza, and Farmar are others who made low percentage gambles and left it up to their bigs to cover for them. I'd rather see full effort, good rotations and contested jumpers deep in the shot clock than gambles up top that may or may not end up in a steal.

5) One of the staples of a good defensive team is the "no layup" rule. The Lakers have the "oh shucks, he's going in for a layup, well, we'll get them on the other end" rule in effect it seems. Lay someone out guys! (I'm looking at you Pau).

6) Kobe needs to stop looking for a whistle and just go at it. The whole "HEEEY!!!!!" thing every time he gets stripped or loses the ball is unbelievably annoying. Kobe, protect the ball, go up strong and stop with the cute crap.

Of course it doesn't help when Ariza's shot isn't dropping like it was to start the season. This is probably a confidence thing, but teams are leaving him wide open again and it takes away the cuts and drives that make him so effective to begin with. There's not much to do there except hope that he (and Sasha and Kobe) snap out of their funks.

Let's hope it was just a bad game, but I haven't felt good about a Laker win since the win over NJ two weeks ago.

, I have no money, a mere kibitzer and an incorrigible mischief maker sitting on the fense, flip-floppin' haha!
Posted by: Edwin Gueco | December 10, 2008 at 09:50 AM

You need no money here Edwin. just continue giving us good counsel.

OH WOE IS ME WE LOST THREE BANDWAGON - NOT!
*
(01) MAMBA24 - DRIVER - I'm driving this crap over the cliff.
(02) ERIC M - OWNER - My goodness...You're right, we're off to a terrible 17-3 start!
OMG...You're right, This team has been together for 20 games!
Holy crap...You're right, we should all forget the last 3/4 of the season.
(03) CHRIS THE LAKER DUDE - Tomorrow we start a new winning streak!
(04) FAITH - Could have used a better effort. Could have played with a better focus.
But we didn't. That's it. Let's move on. There's a game tomorrow
(05) DARK ANGEL SK - give credit to Sacramento they played hard, and the lakers
overestimated them.. i'm so disappointed.. but we have to move on.
(06) BROID - Well, it's a long season and I'd rather have them slump now than later.
(07) EXHELODRVR - BK, thinks that this current Laker team can beat Cleveland, Detroit,
or Boston in a 7 game championship series" I do, too. I think they would right now, and
even more likely by the end of the season
(08) ISSANG - we will win tomorrow. don't worry guys. it is a long way to go...
(09) RICK FRIEDMAN - This isn't the end of the world. But the future of a Championship
season is on the line. Go Lakers!
(10) CHUAHUGO - AFTER A GOOD NIGHT SLEEP, WE WILL BE READY AGAINST
SHAQ AND THE SUNS. # 1 LAKERS FAN SINCE 1970
(11) Lets Go L’s - Laker pride through adversity!
(12) SONNY BELFAST - Just relax already! Sheesh! You should beat
us about 7 out of 10 times
(13) ICE - I'm confident we'll find our game. And stop with the stupid trade
and doomsday panicking. You wanna jump off the bandwagon, stay off.
(14) JBOSTON - chill out. we'll probably still win the west. the finals
are a toss-up between the lakers and the celts
(15) NOTSOCONCERNEDLAKER FAN - I honestly think that this is what the
Lakers needed! The Lakers have the talent to win almost every night, they just
need to be motivated every now and then.
(16) THE OUTLAW - As many of you know, I'm not a "sky-is-falling" type of guy.
It's a long season, and I've watched the Lakers lose to crappy opponents for years
now. Yes, there are defensive issues. No, I'm not too worried.
(17) JUSTANOTHERMABAFAN - STAY OPTIMISTIC!!! This team is the 4th Dynasty
in the making! Enjoy the ride - no one promised a smooth one.
(18) Mr.Barney Dangles - The Kings had to win tonight. This was their game
7 in the NBA finals. This was another game for us. Its really not a big deal.
(19) CHARLES - For the season's sake, I'm not upset. Momentum's sake for the Xmas
game, we better get it together. Am I upset we lost? Yes. Do I think the sky is falling? We'll
see how this team closes in March April. That's when PJ teams get their butt together.
(20) utzworld THE BANNER HOLDER - Ugliest 17-3 record you've ever seen, ain't it?
(21) VMAN - This ends the analysis. They won, we lost. Next.
(22) FLOYD – AS ALWAYS, AS EVER, YET ANOTHER GREAT DAY (AND SEASON)
(23) # 4 - the Lakers and Kings are headed in opposite directions, for a long time.
TO BE A LAKER FAN !!!


We will prevail tonite before Sasha gets a nervous breakdown and cut his hair. He should cut that hair and go bald like Odom, figuring out a lucky headband that will guide his decision-making. When you are playing in NBA, you have to improve at all times. Got to be creative with your repertoire and don't repeat the same acts in the same town. Players are just too good in their profession and remember the things you like to do and not do. So when Odom, Bynum and Radman drove to the basket and their passage were sealed, they committed errors and T/O b/c they could not adjust the defensive adjustment made. That's why, playing on the road needs a lot of preparation and greater efforts than playing at home.

Tonight, Lakers will show Shaq that he doesn't belong to LA anymore. He may know the bounce at the Staples but the fans are no longer receptive to his inimical acts as a rapper, as a loyal teammate, as a family man and as an ideal public officer as he proclaimed to be. It will take him years to repair that damage and his team will be beaten badly today to show their contempt against what Shaq represents as well as his fans in the blog, LOL!

There's nothing more annoying than this team's propensity to coast and play to the level of their competition.

Phil and Kobe need to crack the whip. I love the 17-3 start but this team hasn't played a complete game in at least 7 or 8 games.

Classic trap game, like you said. I don't expect tonight's game to be that tough, especially after last night. No Shaq either, so some of the spark won't be there.

It's good, in a way. Maybe people can keep talking about Boston and we can sneak up on a few people.

Yeah, right.

Utz - LMAO - don't do it! No revocations! You're appointed for life - lol!

Edwin - you can't fool us. We know you bleed purple & gold. You ain't no flip flopper!!

Speaking of cow patties - I'm surprised there aren't any to step in around here this morning. Maybe the trolls are taking the day off? Basking in the glory of victory? Of course, it's still early.....

Edwin: Shaq ain't playing tonight. He's at his Grandmother's funeral.

Thank god there's a game today. Lets hold the Suns to under a 100 and get some tacos. Tonight's game is a semi statement game just because we have been struggling lately and because its on ESPN (I'll be watching the FSN feed).

I hope we can come out energized and committed on D however it may be a lot to ask after last nights butt whoopin. At least the Suns played last night too...

C'mon Lamar, don't screw up, and PLEASE lose the headband.

15 days until redemption...

GO LAKERS

It will be an interesting game. Since the last meeting, the SUNS have reverted to their run-n-gun ways. Porter finally relented and ditched his bag of Flip Saunders plays and asked Nash and the Suns what D'Antoni did to run a successful offense.

Porter has shown flexibility and it's paying off. FInally the Suns are showing they can play inside with Shack, and also up-tempo.

Of course, with Shack out tonight, it puts the Suns at a disadvantage in the paint with only Lopez as a true center with the height to counter byenumb.

But if the Suns get hot from outside, they should be able to emulate Bobby Jackson (what is he, 40 now?) and the Kings' success in taking advantage of a less-than-fearsome laker D.

My thoughts go to Shack for losing a family member. BTW, he played his arse off last night.


Somebody needs to tell Kurt Rambis that the rest of the league has figured out his little defensive "scheme" and he needs to implement a REAL DEFENSE.

Nuff said.

Lakerman420

"Edwin: Shaq ain't playing tonight. He's at his Grandmother's funeral.'

Actually utz, it was his great-grandmother.


Mamba24,

Sonny Belfast is definitely NOT a troll! That's why I put him in the third catagory. I't's probably not the most relative company, But I could not put him in the "Fan" or "Troll" category and I wanted to keep the catagories to a minimum so he made THAT cut.

...but na, Sonny's the Man!


The kids have tuned out their coaches.

They've been hearing and reading all the heaping praise they've been given at the start of the season and it's beginning to grow in their heads. Instead of listening to their coaches about their deficiencies, the boys have lost their way.

Does the blog want drama... Here's some plot lines.

Andrew seems to be rebelling since the time he and Phil had a spat. Farmar and Ariza are ignoring Sasha since the latter and him had a shouting match on the court. Lamar has sunk back into his shell since he was appointed as the leader of the second unit. Vlad has lost his shooting since his eye injury started healing. Pau's probably frustrated too, but who is he to talk to the boys when it feels like he's the "new" guy on the team. Fisher probably has a feeling that this team's makeup is lacking. Kobe's so pissed inside that he probably asked Fisher to be the one to speak out to the boys. And, Phil... he thinks this team can't win 70 games so he decides to doze off during games.

The team has shown what they can do on their best days. We all saw their INITIATIVE at the start of the season, like they were truly ready. They gave everyone so much hope that this rough patch on their schedule, this slump has brought a huge downer on everyone. Immaturity has overtaken initiative. Everything came easy so they probably think 50% is enough to cruise.

Effort can't come any sooner if the boys lack initiative. That's what they have to find once again. If they truly want to beat Boston on Christmas day, or become Champions for that matter, they must find it in them to get back to what they were doing right. Play TEAM basketball, forget individual friction, leave the baggage and egos at home and just go out there and PLAY TO WIN!

They had that at the start of the season, they must find it again.

GO LAKERS!!!

http://www.tinyurl.com/59j8kz

Mamba24,

"...I would like your opinion of the Kings coach"

I like Reggie, but the Kings have far too much talent to be at 6 and 16. This, I lay at coach's feet.

Unlike the Lakers, the Sacramento Kings of Basketball have some serious hills to climb before they can begin to ponder playoff and championship possibilites of any sort. When it happens though, it will happen fast.

Bobby Brown, Donte Green, Jason Thompson, Spencer Hawes, Beno Udrih, Francisco Garcia, John Salmons and Kevin Martin are a fine young nucleus. Add to that the two first rounders we get next year, a new arena, and excellent positioning for 2010 free agency and we're off and running, if it takes that long.

Whether or not Reggie remains at the helm will be up to him, but we want Kings basketball and will settle for nothing less. We appreciate that he is a Hollywood pretty boy, but that alone doesn't cut it up here. I wish him success as coach of the Sacramento Kings of Basketball. Wins are how that will be measured.

Now, about those Lakers. One of our announcers commented that the first Laker player didn't arrive at the arena before 5:30 yesterday evening. You must not disrespect another NBA team, lest you get your tushes kicked.

Could it be that the Lakers have already peaked this time around? That they had their shot last year and blew it? That it may be time to revisit the drawing board? That the fragile little blonde hairs of a soft underbelly have been exposed? I don't think so. But after we thump your butts again on Friday, maybe some of your players will stop acting like the little beach punks they actually are, and get serious about professional basketball. They'll have to play like men to win a championship.

See ya'll again on Friday, then probably not again for a good while. Good luck with your season.

Sonnybelfast

I have a question: Has everybody found everybody on Facebook yet?

Maybe the coaching staff should show them Game 6 of the Finals again?

IMPORTANT BLOG NOTICE

1) A spy virus has been placed on your computer that monitors ANYONE who links to the KWAME TROLLS postings. WE WILL KNOW.

2) Anyone dumb enough to bring back discussions about anything written by the KWAME TROLL will be recieve a 30 day ban from all bandwagons, roll calls, and SERIOUS discussions. Pending approval by Mamba24.

ONLY A FOOL ARGUES WITH A FOOL, OR READS ANYTHING WRITTEN BY A FOOL!

Justanothermamba fan,

That's true I bled purple and gold since time immemorial, can't sleep and eat well when Lakers lose. It used to be I also don't open the Sports page and see box score. After cheering the Lakers for the last 40 years, no internet, no LA Times but on a delayed news from the Stars and Strife at Clark Air Force, I become a flip flopper with my opinions because the Laker players are just too inconsistent. You don't know what the future will bring with their game, it is either to be or not to be. In the end, we all including this No. 1 incorrigible, incoherent Mike T. will cheer for the Lakers.

Anyway, made a wrong spelling on fence so that my excuse of flopping to another sport, I'm now in fensing business.

LO and Ariza... PLEASE get rid of the headbands!!!

I thought I was watching Kwame and Smush again.

Mamba 24,

That Santa/jingle bells song won't fly with the curse word written like that. Please don't try to sneak in stuff that you know isn't kosher. Just use "F"," "eff," or a bunch of symbols with no letters, all of which makes the point perfectly clear. Please don't make us have to deal with our bosses over this stuff.

AK

I tend to agree with Puddles. Whether the individual players are playing up to capacity or not, it seems to me that the defensive strategy being employed is simply not working. Every game for the past dozen has been a parade of uncontested jumpshots and layups by the opposition. This suggests to me that the defensive system in use is vulnerable to those things and our opponents are exploiting that vulnerability (more and more, it seems.) Unless the coaching staff adopts a different strategy, I think we're going to see alot of losses, because we are going to give up lots of points until this changes. Basically, if we are hot, we win, and if we're not, we lose. That's the life of an offense-only team.

WE HAD IT AT THE START WE MUST FIND IT AGAIN BANDWAGON
*
(01) HAPPY GILMORE - DRIVER - They had that at the start of the season,
they must find it again
(02) MAMBA24 - Riding ShotGun - They still got it and they will triumph
in the end

No time to mourn last nights loss.

Weak from last nights poor performance. Need energy from Lakers win tonight. Getting weaker......almost .to weak to type....

"Must......beat......Suns......."

Butler,

Thanks for the information about Shaq. Condolence to the family.

Mike Ti,

"You know what your going to get-"

That really wasn't meant a negative comment/category. Why you took it that way, I don't know, maybe insecurity. I just meant that we KNOW what we are gonna get:

We know that deep down, you are a Lakers fan, You just tell the truth. Maybe just too much TRUTH for some of us to handle.

Sonny, tells us how things look through the Kings eyes.

Butler, even I couldn't call him a Troll! He brings some good stuff sometimes. It's not his fault he's been brainwashed into thinking that the SUNS are ballers!

troy, well I haven't figured out what makes this kid tick yet. Truthfully, I think he just spouts out of his mouth things that he hasn't thought about too thoroughly. And I can't call him a Fan.

Thanks for the Javaris update. I really hope he at least get playing time if the deal is finalized. Maybe we can make a trade for him. Farmar you better be cautious.

Sasha has to cut his hair!

The Machine has to reboot!

Lose the locks Sasha!

Ctrl-Alt-Del The Machine!


GO LAKERS!

Scouting Report on Lakers:

During pre-game drills before games with Lakers no need to practice out-side shots. Just practice layups.

Larry, you think the Kings will be alright? To me they've already failed at rebuilding once in the Ron-Ron era, but are now seriously considering their second go at it with Theus. So unless there is something surprising in the next 2 years, I'd say they're out of the playoffs for at least 2 years. My humble opinion, sir.

Good to have Sonny back BTW, he's alright in my book. And I do agree that the Lakers need to get kicked in the arse a bit. Our second unit are acting like spoiled brats. Work together, defend together, learn how to play in the half court on offense. Run-n-gun must always have a fall-back....Magic always had Kareem to go to.

During pre-game drills before games with Lakers no need to practice out-side shots.
Just practice layups. Posted by: BD | December 10, 2008 at 11:10 AM

Dag, BD you a cold man!

You're welcome Gueco.

The other element that will be different tonight: Leandro B.

You'll remember last game vs the Suns, LB was out grieving for his dead mother. Strange how that's a theme this season...especially since Barnes went thru hell last season dealing with his own mother's death..anyway, LB has been on a tear lately, and scored 25 vs. Jazz a couple games ago.

Barnes has been setting career-high #s from the 3-pt line this season. And, the Suns are shooting the best team % in the league right now, just under 50%. That will change without Shack, though.

Time to put PJ out to pasture. The last 4 games or so it feels like the Kwame and Smush days are back. I can't erase the games on the DVR fast enough anymore.

This is on PJ and Kobe thats all I know. The whole team can't turn to crap over night unless something is wrong fellas.

They look like they have never even been coached before. How could that be??

I want to see basketball played the right way and it's not happening folks. Offense, Defense, Bench, it all SUCKS now.

This is on PJ and KOBE.

NotsoConcerned sez:

"It's not his fault he's been brainwashed into thinking that the SUNS are ballers!"

You'd be surprised at the changes since the last time you saw them play. Back then, Porter was trying to force a Detroit-style offense on Nash and what is essentially a running team.

Nash has since been given the reigns. Win or lose tonight, I like the direction the Suns are going in now, as they look much more relaxed and confident.

Puddle - you make really good points.

All aspects of our defense have become suspect. Have we become lazy? Have we started believing the press (unfortunately way outdated) about the quality of our defense? Have we started to measure our effectiveness by steals per game? Does Phil need to take responsibility for the defense back from Rambis? (I've heard Kurt's got it now, but I could be wrong.) Whatever it is, we look worse and worse and that's not a fluke.

We are dropping in every statistical category while Cleveland seems to climb higher. Boston is consistent and seems to have a tougher conference this year than what we've got in the West. (That should change when Utah is whole, Houston heals, and New Orleans pulls itself together, and at the same time that doesn't bode well for us.)

I would like to see Phil knock off a lot of his 'zen' style of coaching; it doesn't seem like a second squad of mostly 25 & under players are that self aware, and Lamar's presence on the floor with them isn't one of a leader. (I would also like to see him STOP SMILING when he makes a big mistake...it's not funny anymore.) And, I would like to see Phil free 'The Mamba' and have Kobe start to unleash on some of these teams. (I'm also troubled that he just doesn't look good this year in almost every way; too much ball over the summer? Not enough recovery time for a 30-year old body?)

Last night my buddy said to me; "don't worry man, have faith, they'll be alright." I asked him; "how exactly is that going to happen while they're playing like this? Do they magically pull themselves out of a persistent slump without changing things? Does their Laker pride suddenly translate into hustle & shooting?" Needless to say, by the end of the game his confidence was shattered and he was searching for answers.

What are the answers? What are we to trust in at this point? Can someone give me something beyond the rhetoric we share when we win...something concrete?

Am I wrong to be this concerned?

POST OF THE DAY
Somebody needs to tell Kurt Rambis that the rest of the league has figured out
his little defensive "scheme" and he needs to implement a REAL DEFENSE. Nuff said
.Posted by: Lakerman420 | December 10, 2008 at 10:32 A

Phil Jackson you senile old fart. Play Bynum!!!!

Your to old Phil to coach this team. Till that kid has 6 fouls play his ass!

I am sick of the layup drills teams put on us when Bynum is sent to the bench.

I want new blood to coach this team and get rid of the Hamblins, Cleamons and the rest. There worthless!

17-3 doesn't fool me just like Phil doesn't.

Buss I hope to God you see what is going on. Who cares if he is going out with your daughter the Lakers are getting exposed and raped by Phil's coaching.


I never watch the game, but i can tell they thought they could win against this team. I actually thought that the kings would have a chance to win because they had a losing streak at home. So i think the lakers should not play at the level of their competition and take this game seriously because they are trying for home court advantage. Their defense has been shakey, but again i think its because of the teams their playing right now. I'm going to wait until they play the higher level teams like Houston, suns, spurs, hornets before i judge them.

"This is the best team in the league"
- Bogut from the Bucks, right after the Lakers beat them.

He said that based on the D the Lakers played against his team. Nothing wrong with the style or scheme, its the effort and loss of focus.

.. in addition to what was said above several observations…

1. Farmar playing badly already for several weeks. I don’t know when it started, I’m pretty sure before East trip. One thing to have confidence, another thing to be over confident. He is a Point Guard for God Sake, should have some brains, to determine when is right time to drive or when it time to run offense. Besides, he’s blowing so many lay-ups opportunities, I stopped count them. Did I said his 3pt shot deserted him also? How good old fashioned pick and roll and create shot for other guys? Another thing, his free throw below 70% and this a bad thing for a guard in NBA. In fact Drew shooting free throws better than him.
2. LO… Where should start? Whatever extra confidence Farmar has, he needs to share it with LO. It was like a good decision to move him to play from the bench but he’s still looking for his game. And I’m not talking about yesterday’s game, season in general. He definitely leading or at least sharing 1st place with Jordan in category, “blown lay-ups opportunities”. He is also very prone to create turnover because of his reckless passing… Did
3. Sasha looking like he is still in training camp. His shooting % down almost 10% including his specialty – 3pt shot. I’m wondering if he ever going regain the form circa 2007-09 and you all would agree, this not too much to ask. Or it was only “contract year” type of the deal?
4. Vlade.. Besides 3pt shooting there it’s not much there. He is trying to drive to the hoop lately, however very often result is turnover.. I know, I know, Phil gave him a starting gig to spread the floor, I’m just wondering when are we going to reap the benefits of it?

Just general observation on defense – too much gambling (Ariza, Kobe and Farmar) for steals. It nice to get one, but constant gambling put team teammates in jeopardy scrambling to cover and leaving either path to the basket pretty open or open shooter on the perimeter.

Hello Laker Family,

Last night's game was bad all around. My main concern is that Bynum isn't looking dominant in the post. I know he's concerned about foul trouble but I have yet to see him pound someone down in the post with his big body. Players are just pushing him around down there and I'm friggin' pissed about it.

I know he's still developing but I want to see some emotion and some anger from a bif 7-footer like him. He's letting guys get right to the rim too easily. I'm not going to blame Pau on this one because Pau's offense has carried us to several wins this season already. Bynum needs to step it up big time. I'm glad Phil pulled him out last night cuz he sure as heck wasn't playing like he wanted to be on the floor.

I want to see a center pound guys like Shaq used to do, like Dwight Howard does now. Enough with the pansies under the basket.

I'm heated and until this team gets better and consistant on the defensive end, we won't be competing for a ring.

STEP IT UP LAKERS!

I'm pretty sure the coaching staff knew that by criticizing the way the bench played they would become tentative
but they are all professionals and practice with each other every day so that is still not an excuse for letting opposition guards look like all stars every game

Even in the closing fourth quarter minutes people were getting beat off the dribble, of course bynum would be in foul trouble because the rim/paint is always under attack.

The Lakers need more triangle not less, their most experienced players in the triangle don't run it well enough or often enough and that is effecting how the 2nd unit performs with the triangle.
They engaged the triangle, tried a high screen here, a pass there, and then give up on it
The only time I saw it ran well was a sequence of established triangle-> post entry denied ball swung out of corner --> post entry denied---> post player steps out for screen-corner player cuts baseline--->weaving drive dribble right--->defense over reacts to drive---> screener rolls and cuts hard to front of rim--pass-->dunk~!

Best play of the night, not many else like it, sadly kobe played too much one on one, farmer forced shots and not enough player and ball movement. The problem wasn't even outside shooters missing, I think we can live with Vlad and Sasha getting shots in the flow of the offense to extend the defense, but we aren't even getting that, we're losing because of poor defense, weak rebounding and bad execution of offense which leads to too many lost possessions and points off turnovers.

More advanced triangle now please
we've been waiting for that for a long time

Chris,

The east is still full of garbage teams. The west is about to start getting competitive again. Did you see the Mavs vs Spurs games last night. If the Lakers believe their conference is a cake work because the western teams poor play, they got something coming for them. Portland almost beat th third best team in the league.

All im saying is that the Western Conference teams are about to come alive. Its hope to the lakers to stop thinking they will just walk into the finals.

Sonny,

Well said.

The Lakers need to man up, or else they won't sniff the trophey, let alone hold its glory.

Here's to a hard fought rematch later this week, but hopefully this time, the better of the two squads comes out on top.

Our team was out played last night but I did not expect them to go undefeated. GO LAKERS I STILL LOVE YOU

BUTLER,

Dude, I have League Pass, I have seen almost EVERY Suns game this season. They are screwed up! They are hot right now, but that won't last...

You can go back and trace the Suns demise back to the day PHX management pissed off the Matrix. Once he turned on you guys and wanted out, your team lost it's heart and soul!!!!!!

It just went downhill from there:

-Matrix was traded for Shaq.
-MID SEASON MIND YOU, Mike D'Antoni was given the remainder of the season to blend his team of purely fast-break guys and jumpshooters with O'Neil's slow pace.
-Mike is let go for Porter.
-Porter slows down team, despite the teams unhappiness, and gives the ball to Shaq.
-Shaq Publicly calls for Amare to be focal point of offense.
-Porter doesn't abide.

THE SAGA CONTINUES...

I'll bet you don't even make the Playoffs!!!!!!!!!

Go Lakers!

Mamba 24

Please put me on the WE LOST 3, WOE IS ME - NOT bandwagon as NO COMPLANCENCY, YO!

and WE HAD IT TO START WE MUST FIND IT AGAIN bandwagon as: Sauron knows how that feels

Amazing_Happens

Wretched
Abysmal
Cataclysmic
Atrocious
Heinous
Dreadful
Awful
Flagitious
Scelestic
Maladroit
Feckless
Bumbling
Ineffective
Inferior
Excrable
Piteous
Woeful
Hapless
Crummy
Abominable
Ghastly

That is some Thesaurus!

Peace

Notso-

"You can go back and trace the Suns demise back to the day PHX management pissed off the Matrix. Once he turned on you guys and wanted out, your team lost it's heart and soul!!!!!!"

It goes back farther than that, actually. The Suns lost big when Sarver refused to hold on to Joe Johnson...there has been myriad other flubs with personnel which Bill Simmons wrote a long and accurate piece about last season, all agonizingly true.

The Matricks was indeed the soul of the Suns, but his case was unique: he was upset he didn't get a max-contract extension in 2007, and asked to be traded at the beginning of last season. The Suns had to trade him and got a nice piece in return. I miss the Matricks but he was asking too much - see how much he commands for his next contract, and you'll note how it's not near the $17 million the Suns were paying him.

I think it's too early to write off the Suns, but I'm happy that the media has decided to do so. There is an advantage to being an underdog. When the media is licking a team's hind side, such as has been the case with the lakers, those words can get into a team's psyche and undermine their hunger by satiating it too early.

Mama Banner Holder summed up what's going on better than anyone. She says that the team has taken on Phil's Zen-like persona. They get down by 10-15 but, instead of a sense of urgency, they're laid back, cool and calm. What Phil fails to realize is that this generation's bumper crop of NBA players needs DISCIPLINE! They need coaches who arent afraid to get in their faces and call them out when they make bad on court decisions.

If Phil won't do it, then it's time for Kobe to turn back to the Mamba of the Kwame era. After these last few games, these kids need THAT more than anything else!

Some thoughts on the Coaching Stylings of Mr. Philip Douglas Jackson:

* Let us begin with the obligatory show of respect, honor, and genuflection towards a Coach who has earned 9 NBA Championships with 2 storied NBA franchises.

With this said...

* Since the regular season is a marathon and not a sprint, why not experiment with the line-ups and try out different starting units as well as different combinations off the bench? Sure, it could be said that THAT is what the pre-season is for, however the Lakers were not at full-strength, plus they had a host of invited, drafted, and misc. players to try out and give playing time to.

* NOTHING can substitute for on-court time together at NBA-level game speed and conditions. So, why not try out different combinations of 1st and 2nd unit players early on in the season? IF Phil is serious when he says this squad cannot win 70, what would it hurt? The Lakers are one of two teams to start the same 5 every game this season. Is this necessarily a good thing? I would suggest...maybe not.

* Maybe Phil is being lazy. Too stubborn to change. Too set in his ways. Maybe he can't...or won't...think 'outside the box' a bit and experiment with different line-ups and combinations. Why does he HAVE to start the same 5 and finish with the same 5 every_single_game?

* I would contend that THIS aspect of his coaching style extends towards his substitution pattern WITHIN games as well: it's almost as IF he (or his assigned assistant coach) has all his players on a timer and will arbitrarily substitute for them when their 'time is up' regardless of how well they're playing. How many times has a player with the hot hand been yanked just because it was his 'regular' time to be pulled from the game?

* Then, there is the issue of his usage of Time Outs. Although it's been discussed Ad Nauseum on this blog, I would suggest that the idea of 'I'm not calling TO's, let them figure it out for themselves, my coaching is done at practice, not during games' is a serious mistake. Why? Because, when used properly, TO's can stop a run by the opposition, turn around the momentum, or keep a run going for your team.

* It also provides a chance to gather the troops, maybe LISTEN to their opinions about what's happening out on the court, as well as make timely substitutions to address match-up issues and problems.

* Calling too many TO's can break the 'flow' of a game, and lead to 'over-coaching' micromanagement, but I would strongly contend that PJ actually errs on the other side -- calling too FEW time outs and NOT calling them at critical times during the game.

* For example: if the other team is building momentum and going on a run, why not call numerous TO's to stop the run and turn things around? Basketball is a game of runs, and even the casual watcher knows that one or two of those runs at key times during the course of the game, can make the difference between victory and defeat.

* PJ has been coaching long enough to recognize those key moments within a game. This is not the time to let the team figure it out for themselves. Coaching does not happen only during practice. I would suggest that being a Coach on the bench DURING games is just as vital (if not more so) than what is taught at practice.

* Exhibit #1 would have to be Game 4 of the Finals this past June. How could PJ let his team squander a 24 pt. lead AT HOME during this most critical of playoff games and NOT DO EVERYTHING in his power to stop the Celtics momentum? He should have used EVERY Time Out he had, and every trick in the book (including getting himself Tee'd Up and thrown out of the game), in order to stop the Celtic's momentum. Instead, Chief Triangle became Chief Wooden Indian, and the rest became a sad chapter in Lakers history.

* Everyone knows about the Triangle Offense. How about some Triangle Defense???

* Phil Jackson will never be known as a Great Tactical Coach. He will never be known as someone who makes astute in-game adjustments and strategic decisions. Maybe the game has passed him by. Maybe it's time for him to step aside for another coach who the players will really LISTEN to. PJ was given two chances to earn his 10th Ring at the expense of Red Auerbach. He has failed both times. Maybe there is something to the Curse of Red blocking Phil's ambitions (may Red Auerbach and his stinking cigar burn in hell forever).

P & G R


Wazzup Laker Fam.

Let's have these irritating, annoying, disgusting, depressing, angering, retarded, foolish, braindead, heartless, weenie, immature, loses now. So the team (and maybe the blog???) can grow and learn from them.

Let's see what our boys are made of. Will they get mad about last nights performance and they're gonna do something about it? Or do they still think their stuff doesn't stink and think they can coast through games?

Hang in there fam. It's gonna be an interesting ride.

Faith and I both implore you... Tighten up that D!!!

BUTLER,

"It goes back farther than that, actually. The Suns lost big when Sarver refused to hold on to Joe Johnson..."

You got me there, I had forgotten about Joe Johnson. The Suns were devastating the West in that last year he was a Sun. I couldn't believe when they let him walk away. Although he was asking for a lot too, they should have kept him because in my opinion, THAT was the strongest Suns team right there!!!!!

Yeah, That was same year that Ray Allen and the Seattle Super-Sonics were ruling the West.

Man how times have changed!!!!!!

Go Lakers!

(Not so)Concerned Lakers Fan

Hey Idiot,
you might as well put Chick Hearn on the your asinine "TROLL LIST" who are you to lump a lifelong Laker fan since Elgin's last year in the Troll column?
Who the ---- are you?

Can you imagine what Chick would be saying if he was still announcing the games? At least he had the guts to call a spade a spade.

THE LAKERS NEED AN ENFORCER AND THEY NEED IT NOW
BOSTON MUST NOT REPEAT

WE HAD IT AT THE START WE MUST FIND IT AGAIN BANDWAGON
*
(01) HAPPY GILMORE - DRIVER - They had that at the start of the season,
they must find it again
(02) TIM-4-SHOW - Lakers need to man up, or else they won't sniff the
trophey, let alone hold its glory.
(03) MAMBA24 - Riding ShotGun - They still got it and they will triumph
in the end
(04) BIG BOSS – Our team was out played last night but I did not expect
them to go undefeated.
(05) JAMIE SWEET - bACKUP

OH WOE IS ME WE LOST THREE BANDWAGON - NOT!
*
(01) MAMBA24 - DRIVER - I'm driving this crap over the cliff.
(02) ERIC M - OWNER - My goodness...You're right, we're off to a terrible 17-3 start!
OMG...You're right, This team has been together for 20 games!
Holy crap...You're right, we should all forget the last 3/4 of the season.
(03) CHRIS THE LAKER DUDE - Tomorrow we start a new winning streak!
(04) FAITH - Could have used a better effort. Could have played with a better focus.
But we didn't. That's it. Let's move on. There's a game tomorrow
(05) DARK ANGEL SK - give credit to Sacramento they played hard, and the lakers
overestimated them.. i'm so disappointed.. but we have to move on.
(06) BROID - Well, it's a long season and I'd rather have them slump now than later.
(07) EXHELODRVR - BK, thinks that this current Laker team can beat Cleveland, Detroit,
or Boston in a 7 game championship series" I do, too. I think they would right now, and
even more likely by the end of the season
(08) ISSANG - we will win tomorrow. don't worry guys. it is a long way to go...
(09) RICK FRIEDMAN - This isn't the end of the world. But the future of a Championship
season is on the line. Go Lakers!
(10) CHUAHUGO - AFTER A GOOD NIGHT SLEEP, WE WILL BE READY AGAINST
SHAQ AND THE SUNS. # 1 LAKERS FAN SINCE 1970
(11) Lets Go L’s - Laker pride through adversity!
(12) SONNY BELFAST - Just relax already! Sheesh! You should beat
us about 7 out of 10 times
(13) ICE - I'm confident we'll find our game. And stop with the stupid trade
and doomsday panicking. You wanna jump off the bandwagon, stay off.
(14) JBOSTON - chill out. we'll probably still win the west. the finals
are a toss-up between the lakers and the celts
(15) NOTSOCONCERNEDLAKER FAN - I honestly think that this is what the
Lakers needed! The Lakers have the talent to win almost every night, they just
need to be motivated every now and then.
(16) THE OUTLAW - As many of you know, I'm not a "sky-is-falling" type of guy.
It's a long season, and I've watched the Lakers lose to crappy opponents for years
now. Yes, there are defensive issues. No, I'm not too worried.
(17) JUSTANOTHERMABAFAN - STAY OPTIMISTIC!!! This team is the 4th Dynasty
in the making! Enjoy the ride - no one promised a smooth one.
(18) Mr.Barney Dangles - The Kings had to win tonight. This was their game
7 in the NBA finals. This was another game for us. Its really not a big deal.
(19) CHARLES - For the season's sake, I'm not upset. Momentum's sake for the Xmas
game, we better get it together. Am I upset we lost? Yes. Do I think the sky is falling? We'll
see how this team closes in March April. That's when PJ teams get their butt together.
(20) utzworld THE BANNER HOLDER - Ugliest 17-3 record you've ever seen, ain't it?
(21) VMAN - This ends the analysis. They won, we lost. Next.
(22) FLOYD – AS ALWAYS, AS EVER, YET ANOTHER GREAT DAY (AND SEASON)
(23) # 4 - the Lakers and Kings are headed in opposite directions, for a long time.
TO BE A LAKER FAN !!!
(24) BIG BOSS - Our team was out played last night but I did not expect them to go undefeated.
(25) JAMIE SWEET – BACKUP MUSCLE

IPosted by: Purple & Gold Reign

Instead, Chief Triangle became Chief Wooden Indian, and the rest became a sad chapter in Lakers history.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

P&GR
How dare you mention Phil and Wooden in the same sentence
LOL

The Lakers need an ENFORCER and they need it now
BOSTON MUST NOT REPEAT

BUTLER,

2004-'05 STANDINGS:

SUNS 62-20

LAKERS 34-48

Look for those roles to reverse on 2009!

I think the Lakers are doing good at this time since they only play 24 minutes a game.

I think Kobe is worn out it pains me to acknowledge, he may EVEn be losing a step..Or worst case scenario, the hyperextended knee and permanently damaged pinkie has him playing out of sorts, hell, I dont know but he's not playing MVP ball right now and that's my boy, I rarely have anything bad to say about Kobe...Maybe we need to shut him down for a game or two like the Suns do with Nash and Snack??? Hmmmm. NOT!

Anyway, we need to bring it tonite. I almost don't want to watch them Jeckyll and Hyde, Lakers!


I also think Phil is clueless as to what to do with our lineup cuz our play has been sooooooooo very inconsistent. Regardless, we need to figure some things out, and tweak whatever. Otherwise, look to make an UPGRADE cuz that constant watching players waltzing into the lane and getting whatever, whenever, has to CEASE with the NY QUICKNESS!

Does anyone know if practice sessions run longer than a game? Does anyone also know if PJ sits thru them (practice)? I mean I'm not asking for him to sprint up n down the side of the court during games, but how about a little/some signs of life out of him.

Well, one way to look at it if you are a KINGs fan, I surmise last night's game was their NBA Finals...Besides, that's pretty much the closest they'll ever come to reaching one...

Go Lakers!

I agree that Phil has to rein in the youngins, even more. I think he's gotta keep em on an edge to be honest.

However, I wouldn't call for Phil's head because he isn't doing it. That's throwing the baby out with the bath water.

The problem to me isn't the defensive scheme. Its the way everyone plays defense. You don't lay back and wait for the offensive player to make a move and see if you are quick enough to stop it. You need to make the offensive player react to what you are doing as a defender.

I'd say get ole' Coop on the playroll on how he preps to play defense. I can tell you that when I was younger, I was much quicker. But I'll tell you right now, I know how to play defense now. The young guys don't need golden calves or a thug like attitude to play defense. Rambis' defensive scheme should tie all players on the court together, but each defender should be as proactive as they can be. Don't react, force the action.

Mamba24,

About your WE HAD IT AT THE START band wagon... as I posted at 5:34 a.m....

>>> We need to see the same team that came out of camp and took charge of their first seven games.

... so please add me. Thanks.

You Ever Notice,

Chick wouldn't be jumping up and down right now, but he'd be happy with the team we have. The Lakers are in a slump right now and that happens with every team, everywhere!

YOU ever Notice how when a guy plays in the Finals, and THEN plays in the olympics, Two weeks is not a long time to rest up before an NBA season?

You ever Notice how when you have two players experience JUST THAT on the same team, you will have twice as many tired players on your team?

You ever Notice that teams never seem to win all of their games?

You ever Notice when teams show up to an Arena less than an hour before tipoff, THAT team seems to start off slow?

You ever Notice that when sluggish teams enter Arenas of rival players riding an 8 game home losing streak, let alone an eight game losing streak tend to run those teams under a buzzsaw?

Of course you didn't!!!!!!!!!!

cuz you're not a fan, you're an observer.

There's a difference!!!!!

BIG DIFFERENCE!!!!!!!!

OBSERVER = TROLL!!!!!!!!!!

Classic case of playing down to the opponent. If the Suns don't fire us up tonight, I do not know what will.....

We know Sac doesn't, at least until Friday.

janaya

utzworld....

I think that your missus is on to something when she says that the Lakers have taken on PJ's personality. I can't remember the last time that Phil has gotten a technical. When a team's best player, the reigning MVP of the league, is getting beaten up by every Tom, Dick and Harry wanna-be in the NBA, it's time to say something to the refs.

I don't advocate the player's whining all the time. But, I think sometimes a coach needs to show his team UNCONDITIONAL support. Kind of create an Us vs. Them mentality. My team right or wrong, so to speak. Especially with his younger players.

Certainly, Phil's track record and his accomplishments speak for themselves. Yet, I don't think it is unfair to wonder whether he is relating to some of the younger team members as well as he could. Case in point was when recently he basically told Bynum to "Shut it" after Baby questioned some of his substitution patterns.

Drew is only 21. Yet a large part of the Laker's championship aspirations have been placed on his shoulders. Quite a lot of pressure for a young player. While I don't know how the situation was handled in private, publicly PJ came off as dismissive and arrogant IMO.

I don't want to overreact to last night's loss. My biggest disappointment is that the team was not playing hard on the defensive end. They were not aggressive enough. Maybe, they'll figure out that it is better to be the hammer than the nail. If not,parades and celebrations will have to be put on hold.

JOMO
Just One Man's Opinion

Butler's Thursday Post-game thoughts: Just to save him the trouble tomorrow.

Wow...I know we lost, but I thought we played pretty well! And since we didn't have the Big Ego, and it was played in LA, I think that is a moral victory!

Some Laker blogger asks, "But didn't we beat you in your building WITH Fat Daddy?".

Butler replies....Uuuuuh, Uuhhhhhhh.

#4,

"Don't react, force the action"

Right on the money. The saying "take what the defense gives you" is well known for a reason. The DEFENSE is what dictates the game, on both sides of the court.

The Lakers aren't as pro-active in forcing the action on defense. They're lacking commitment, and when they do commit, they're reacting....

Hopefully some time, practice, and desire will cure this.

Also, ppl not every next coach for this or that has to be an ex Laker player. Surely there's someone out there more than qualified to take on a job teaching these Lakers. I say this b/c I wish they would find someone other than Kareem for Bynum, someone who was more of a banger down low in his days. Bynum is too sky hookish right now not enough dunker. Bynum is bigger than Kareem was, but he's not using his body to punish.

Chris -

Thanks for the kind words.

I don't think you're wrong to be concerned - I have some concerns myself, obviously. That being said, I wouldn't step off the ledge any time soon. There are some major deficiencies over the last 2 weeks, no doubt, but I feel they can be ironed out. After all, this is the EXACT same team we had at the beginning of the season. No injuries, no trades. There's no reason to believe we can't do it. I just happen to think it's a focus/effort thing and complacency set in big time.

The most concerning thing to me is that after getting bitten in the rear in the Indiana game and nearly letting it happen again in Washington, I was SURE they'd have learned their lesson and would come out strong out of the gate in their subsequent games and play a full 48. Unfortunely, they still seem to think they can "turn it on" when they want, but when you have the bullseye on your back, you simply can't wait to turn it on if you want to win in this league.

(Not so)Concerned Lakers Fan= NOT QUALIFIED TO QUANTIFY

Excuses Excuses, no more
1. The Lakers are tired
2. Lakers are tired X 2
3. Arrived late to game
4. We can't win em all
5. For other teams it's life or death

I'd rather be an honest observer than an EXCUSE MAKER.

The Lakers need an ENFORCER and they need it now
BOSTON MUST NOT REPEAT

I think that the rest of the month will tell us a lot about our team. The next 4 games are at Staples, giving them a chance to rest a little more, and get in some good practices.

After that, they play 2 back to backs in 5 days (Thanks NBA schedule makers) before facing the Celtics on Jesus' birthday.

I think we'll know a lot more about this team's capabilities by then.

Magia32,

I have to disagree. Bynum isn't skyhookish enough. In fact, I've never seen him throw the shot.

I think he did throw it one game last season after Kobe bet him some money... it was so-so, but if the guy doesn't develop some go-to unstoppable moves (such as the skyhook), then he'll never be the next "great"

As it is, he's got a decent jump hook... but it's not as lethal or consistent as Gasol's mini jump hook.

Purple and gold reign

Thank you for an excellent and clear post on PJ raising specific and valid questions.

The lakers,as we can see, are under pressure to win every game this season and for this reason there is a limit to how much tinkering they can really do.They picked the lineups that should work the best for how they want/need to play and its up to the players to implement successfully what has been designed (around their skills.)

When starting lineups and minutes are yanked around there are plenty of potential criticisms with this method too.Perhaps as the season goes on there will be more flexibility but there is a lot to be said for players knowing exactly what will happen plus an number of other potential disadvantages for going with the hot hand in the long run (as silly as it may sound)

Phils style is part of a wider philiosophy so it may not be so easy for him to just start using time -outs differently...in his last season book he did go into the logic of this and it made alot of sense - not that I can remember word for word but essentially the players know what they have to do...calling a time out to reiterate it shouldn't be necessary.I think he feels the advantages of putting the responsibility on the players outweighs the disadvantages of not calling time outs and breaking momentum.He is prepared to lose games in the shorter term with the bigger picture in mind.

With the exception of the injury ruined '07 season his teams consistently peak at the end of the season and succeed in the playoffs.Sure it backfires on him at times but live by the sword...die by the sword and as you mentioned he has been pretty successful - theres always risk involved.

As much as we all focus on the game 7 loss to phoenix in '06 or the finals loss to Boston lets not forget the team he had in '06 and how poorly they had played earlier in the season...lets not forget the come from behind run to snatch the top seed last season and the way they played the ball they needed to at exactly the right moments through the western playoffs.

Right now this coaching staff is doing whatever they need to do to ensure this team reaches its considerable potential by the end of the season.If that means not taking the easy way out and therefore losing a few games and having some poor performances and letting the guys go through whatever it is that the need to work stuff out then so be it.

I'm still a believer that this guy knows exactly what he's doing.After 9 championships with two different teams,pushing the suns to 7 games in the first round while relying heavily on Smush Parker and Kwame Brown,an unexpected finals appearance with a young team after a major injury and trade, and a 17-3 start with huge changes how they are utlising their players.....its going to take a bit more to convince me otherwise.

Losses tend to bring out the worst of the blog.

I don't like all the in-fighting amongst fellow bloggers.

Having said that, IF the Lakers are to have home court all throughout (best record in the L), they simply have to play better more consistently or they will fail that objective. It doesn't mean we should blow up the team or throw out the baby with the bath water. It doesn't even mean that the Lakers can't or won't win the title this year, it just means that Cleveland or Boston (or both) would have the home court in a series.

If this was 2006, we'd be stoked. But it's not. It's 2008, heading into 2009 after suffering the worst kind of playoff loss... to the Celtics and watching those jerks celebrate at our expense and the expense of the players we love.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with rooting or asking for higher effort and more of a mission-mentality from the same players we love so much.

The coaching/lineup changes suggested by many of my fellow bloggers today are premature. Phil knows that the main impediment to this team's winning a championship is the attitude of some of the players.

Farmar must develop a chess master's mentality. He must learn how to run the offense from a triangle-first perspective so that the triangle can wear the opponent down and make it easier for the up-tempo 2nd unit to push. When he goes for up-tempo first, the opponent can take a mental break from defending against the triangle, which allows them to be mentally refreshed when the 1st unit returns. The mental aspect of the triangle is key: Running it not only creates mismatches, but it wears down the opponent, physically and mentally. Farmar must learn how to do this effectively for the 2nd unit to maintain the leads built by the 1st unit.

Bynum must develop a warrior's mentality. As one article cited by the K bros said, he must get to the point where his attitude of domination makes it impossible for Phil to take him out of the game. Phil is messing with him right now in the same way a matador pokes at a bull, and Phil wants Bynum to take out his frustrations on other team. Getting mad at the coach is the first reaction of an immature player, but Phil also knows that such first reactions are a necessary step toward the goal. When Bynum learns to make the other team pay any time something, including Phil, makes him mad, there will be neither reason nor desire to take him out.

Odom must develop the attitude of a leader. The first step is for him to learn to take personal responsibility for the performance of the second unit. When they play poorly, he must take the blame, then behind closed doors, do whatever it takes to motivate his players to do their jobs on the court. The second step is for him to demand the ball and control the offense. He is the most skilled player on the court, other than Kobe and maybe Pau. He must demand that the others defer to him, then make things happen. The third step is to set the tone on defense, especially regarding aggressiveness on rotations and on holding his teammates accountable when they don't play well or with aggression.

Many here point to Kobe as a player needing improvements of various kinds, but I disagree. Kobe's play becomes erratic and difficult only when it appears to him that the rest of the team isn't doing its job. In those times, he sometimes gives up on them and takes over, with mixed results. I think that if the others do their jobs, or at least expend maximum effort, Kobe will stay within the team concept and give them some slack. When they stop trying, he gets pissed off and takes over.

Phil knows what he's doing, and he has a long view on team development. He's much more concerned with developing a team that will be ready for the playoffs than developing a team that will win now and in a way that pleases the short-view advocates.

RMA

JOMO

Phil does show his players support and a big part of what he does is based on trust and solidarity - its jsut not part of his thing to go getting techs....he does it other ways that those of us with 9 less rings a a squillion less $$ can't quite understand - like ordering that chick off the bus that time.

And as for Bynum calling him out in the media...if you've ever led people or owned a dog you've got to remain the alpha...theres a time for kindness (ever seen footage of BJ Armstrong sobbing in the bulls locker room after the third championship and jackson finding him and hugging him so tight I thought he should be arrested?) and theres a time to maintain control - some 21 year old unproven punk questioning his hall of fame coach in the media? you wanna nip that in the bud pronto son! ...and Bynums response was to apologise and say he didn't know what he was on about wasn't it?...quite...

AK or BK,

Have you seen any of those internet shows tha the Sklar bros are in "Back on Topps"?

AK, I made a joke on here about two years ago that went something like; "why is it that you never se AK and BK and the Sklar brothers in the same place at the same time? hmmmmm" and you told me that you or your brother went to scholl with one of them...or something like that. So I was wondering if it was any good.

Randy is on Jim Rome right now and they promo'd it a little bit.

I was wondering if you guys have cought it yet?

Here is what I found online from some River Front Times place:

"Michael Eisner, the former Disney CEO, and his Tornate Company are producing Internet-based shows, including Back on Topps, about the baseball card company Tornate bought late last year. The business of baseball cards tanked in the late '90s after a boom a few years earlier, but Topps (which printed the first card in 1951) has remained."

anyways, as you were...

troy, well I haven't figured out what makes this kid tick yet. Truthfully, I think he just spouts out of his mouth things that he hasn't thought about too thoroughly. And I can't call him a Fan.

Posted by: (Not so)Concerned Lakers Fan
_____________________________________

NOT SO CONCERNED...The following was well thought out, and it bears repeating...

Here are the numbers we should all be concerned about:
Laker Record against the Eastern Conference Big 3

(ECB3):
1. Detroit Pistons (since 2003-04 season)……
4 wins and 13 losses
2. Boston Celtics (since Piece, Garnet, Allen)…..
2 wins and 6 losses
3. Cleveland (since 04-05 season, a year after Lebron’s rookie season and when he became established)….
2 wins and 6 losses

2008-2009 remaining games against the ECB3:
Boston: Dec 25 in LA, Feb 5 in Boston
Detroit: March 26 in Detroit
Cleve: Jan 19 in LA, Feb 8 in Cleveland

Anaysis:
1. Detroit has thoroughly dominated the Lakers, despite the Lakers having years of "learning about them and adjusting to their style of play." Even with Shaq or Bynum playing, the Lakers have not been able to solve Detroit. Two constants to consider as to why this is-- During the 03-04 Championships, Karl Malone was severely hurt and weakened, and he was a liability both offensively and defensively. This year, we have Pau Gasol, who cowers at the sight of American thug-type power forwards. Weakness at the 4 has hurt us versus Detroit. Another constant; Kobe always over shoots and his shooting percentage is consistently low versus Detroit. Kobe givith, Kobe taketh away...

2. The Celtics dominated the Lakers during the regular season last year, and in my opinion, they dominated the Lakers during the Championship. I never got the feeling the Lakers had a chance versus the Celtics, and with the Celtic team playing even better than last year, there is not reason to believe the Lakers chances versus the Celts will improve. Rondo is dominating at the PG now, which means the Celtics now have 2 dominating guards, and we know how poorly the Lakers do against teams with effective guards. Add to this that the Celtic interior players have gotten stronger, and that this team is beating other teams handily, despite the Celtics having a bulls-eyes on their backs. I really fear the Celtics. Christmas day is the Day of Reckoning for this Laker team...

3. No doubt, Lebron has dominated Kobe. Say what you want to say about who's better, Lebron's Cavs have consistently beaten Kobe's Lakers, and the Cavs don't put a cast of superstars on the floor. We haven't played the Cavs yet this year, so I'd be interested in seeing how we fare. Still, the bottom line is that we rarely beat this team, and nothing Kobe does seems to change that.

No way this current Laker team wins the championship this year, not if they have to play one of the ECB3.

peace, truce

If we are already saying that Kobe and Pau are tired after their long campaign, what will we be saying at the end of the season or playoffs?
Phil is doing a good job limiting their minutes and it will hopefully offset Kobe and Gasol's 2 straight years of competitve play. Remember, those 2 aren't the only ones in this league to do the same thing.

I believe we need an enforcer on this team, when Ariza went down last week and no one came to his rescue, it spoke volumes. You think KG would have let that GO?

We have a few prospects on the team. Bynum for one, but his youthful character and immaturity means we will have to wait until he realises he is THE BEAST.
Odum is another candidate though more improbable, there have been times over the years where he is a monster, dominating both offensively and defensively. Unfortunately, Lamar fails to sustain that mindset throughout the year let alone a single game.
Kobe is another, but he has morphed into a Phil Jackson clone which is not bad thing per se but I kinda miss the old Kobe.
Bynum is our best hope, but patience is required, and for bloggers like me, patience is a difficult virtue.
If the ENFORCER does not materialize from within the team then there are trade options we have to obtain someone who fits the mold. Who that someone might be I have no clue, I leave that to the more learned members of this blog.

The Lakers need an ENFORCER and they need it now
BOSTON MUST NOT REPEAT

NOt so sez:

BUTLER,

2004-'05 STANDINGS:

SUNS 62-20

LAKERS 34-48

Look for those roles to reverse on 2009!"

That Laker team was really bad - give this year's Suns some credit! I think the Suns will win in the 50-ish range.

Kiwi --

Thank you in return for your cogent and reasonable response to my post about Phil Jackson. With all due respect, if you were to (as objectively as possible) weigh all of Phil's positives against his negatives and weaknesses, I would submit that Phil may be reaching a point of diminishing returns with THIS 2008-09 Lakers team.

I'm afraid this team may be starting to tune him out. IF words alone cannot get through to them...what can he do? Back to Two-A-Days? Pat Riley-esque practices? This is something Byron Scott might implement, but not PJ, right? That's not in his nature.

He only has two veterans (KB & DFish) who have won rings, and although Derek has been performing better of late, Kobe is DEFINITELY playing some of the worst Bball of his career. So, who can PJ really count on to be his coach on the court?

Plus...if you've carefully watched HOW the team has been playing the past few weeks, something is just...off. Something is not quite right. Sure, there are the inevitable ups and downs during the course of a long season, but once again, my point is that these crappy games have been happening WITH THE SAME STARTING 5, and basically the same substitution pattern off the bench!

Why NOT try something new and different? Consider changing the starters. Bring in Mihm or Powell or even Walton (to his credit, i remember PJ tried that) earlier to shake things up!

As i said above, sooner or later EVERYone in ANY job reaches a point of diminishing returns. Where you just 'go through the motions' and lose that hunger and motivation. Sure, the personalities of teams change from year to year, and in some ways every season stands on its own. BUT...the core of this squad has been the same for years...and, sometimes they are playing (right now) as if they just met for a pick-up game.

The responsibility for this situation (and correcting it) HAS to be laid directly at the feet of the head coach and his staff.

As its been said, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink, right? Well...you CAN salt the oats. It's the Head Coach's responsibility to provide that SALT.

It's not about wanting to win...everyone wants to win. It's about HATING to lose!!!

The question was asking in the film: A Bronx Tale

"Is it better to be loved...or feared?"

I submit that in the NBA, it is better to be feared. Boston is feared, the Lakers are NOT. Whose fault is this? Where does the buck stop? I would submit that possessing THIS intimidation factor alone is worth POINTS in a game. This leads to convincing victories on the road, and BLOWOUT wins at home!

P & G R

Kiwi...

Far be it from me to presume to know what is going on in PJ's mind. As I stated his track record speaks for itself. But as in raising a family, "because I said so", doesn't always work. Sometimes you have to empower younger people by explaining your motives to them. Their life experiences might not be extensive enough to perceive the nuances of leadership. This is the NBA, not the army.

Bronxlakerfan: "I think that your missus is on to something..."

Not missus...Mama - the Original Banner Holder who taught me everything there is to know about Laker Nation almost 24 years ago when her 1983 Nissan Sentra parked for good in our first LA driveway.

Kiwi,
I would add to your posts that PJs teams never underachieve.

Urgh.

Mongo no like.

Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.

GO LAKERS!

 
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