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Game Thread - Lakers at Suns

November 20, 2008 |  7:42 pm

Whoa! Whoa! Whoa!

Kobe and Shaq used to play together?

AK

AK


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9-1 baby!!!!! BRing it on!!!!

Game was not even a competition

Kobe looked at Luke at the end of game and said

........" I can't believe you ever started"

GO Lakers!

It looked like it wasn't even hard.

See you in December Suns!

Don't get too excited hehe.

We still have Denver tomorrow and while it is only an hour flight from Phoenix back home to LA it still is a back to back game nevertheless.

At least we will have the home crowd. That's the only real advantage I suppose.

Great win tonight.

Pau again showed game. Sure he gained only four points but 9 ASSISTS?!

Inside out Game>Outside In.


And we won having Pau play mostly as our Center.

LOL!

-blitz

Freakin A though.

Stoudemire struggled (which is good for us) but freaking lowered down my fantasy team.

You win for now PIG!

-blitz

I guess BK's theory about the in and out game going through Gasol went up in smoke tonight............Did Gasol make any post moves tonight?


If I'm not mistaken, that's LAKERS 2; SUNS 0; Since the Big Ego arrived in the desert.

Boy, the Lakers don't do well against physical teams like the Suns, do they?

Even though I'm a die-hard fan I'm not a homer. After watching both games tonight, you cannot say which team, Lakers or Celtics, is best in the NBA. They need to play each other to settle that question.

Dear Butler,

Don't take it personal...Destiny calls.

Love, The Banner Holder

The Lakers HAD to play Luke...

Boston put in their deep bench warming red-head (Scalabrine)
and he hit a three, so the Lakers had to show that they had a bench
warming three-point shooting slow redhead too.

As to a nickname for Luke, the refrigerator is more appropriate.

Red's victory cigar was after they won championships, not after
they won every game.

Chick put every game in the refrigerator, so it's more fitting.

Unless they start playing Luke anywhere other than the ends
of games again.

At least we don't have Mike T for at least another nite

the suns just looked old.

next.

Where is BUTLER??? Crying back in desert?

Emptyness without trolls.. Is it good thing?

Where is Butler? Does anyone of you here know the address of Butler? I will send him flowers with sympathy card. LOL!

Its a good win!!!!! Thou Im not impressed on Bynum... He is just too passive. Good thing RADman is hittng the 3s....

Fatty,

>>>>>Thank God for percaset and muscle relaxers.

>>>>>A little bit of Laker Tom's stuff wouldn't hurt either.
>>>>>But that is still illegal in Az and I think it carries the
>>>>>Death sentence if caught?

I have never really gotten into pain , prescription or otherwise, but I also once had an “outpatient procedure” that involved a lot of pain and was given Percocet for the first time. Now that stuff was as good as the best stuff I ever smoked. So good in fact that it scared me away from ever wanting to use the stuff. LOL. I would imagine a Lakers game on Percocet might be really enjoyable – especially one where you soundly beat the locals.

Tom

If lakers were that active last Friday, they should have been 10 - 0. What they needed were those Vladimir rainbows and I don't think Kwame could block those shots? That's OK, Lakers has beaten four quality teams: Rockets, Hornets, Mavericks and Suns....well Blazers are also a good team with Oden in the lineup.

You can sense that Lakers are playing a good game when Kobe razzle dazzle then passes it to the open man. When Kobe is shooting too far and clanking, it will be a bad night. By the way, nobody is mentioning the torn ligament on his pinkie. Everyone has taken for granted that he has nine fingers. If it were another player he would be on leave like Deron.

I hope there is no letdown on Friday against the Nuggets.

folks, that was domination. Phoenix was on the Lakers' hip all night.

Pau didn't score much, but he had a good night. Andrew would've had a good night, but he fell for Shaq's fakes to many times. he'll learn.

oh yeah,

i wasn't surprised to see Rad hit all those threes tonight. he's been missing everything lately and since he's a good shooter and basketball is a game of averages, he was bound to get on a hot streak, as is Kobe. it's early in the season.

TinidorS,

I actually think defensively Drew had a great game. Going against a guy who is still bigger then him and he made Shaq really struggle at first.

Offensively again though he had to get good passes from Kobe, Lamar, Pau, Jordan, etc. to really be effective. I didn't expect much from him when Shaq was on him, after all even in his last season David Robinson was able to guard centers really well so it's not out of the question for Shaq to do a similar thing. But when Drew went against Stoudemire in the 4th I was kinda disappointed instead of banging his way inside he merely again settled for those hooks instead of dunks.

But heck Drew is here for good defense and score when given the opportunity (as long as he is aggressive). Plus that jumper he hit in Shaq's face was really nice.

I think Drew had a good game.

-blitz

EJK & blitz,

You misunderstand. I have no problem getting Pau more touches than Drew at this point because I agree he is a more polished offensive option. But there are also match-ups or situations that we are going to encounter where Pau will be challenged.

While it does not happen very often, Pau still disappears offensively in certain situations, such as tonight. Yes, he did have out 9 boards and 9 dimes but he went 2-8 from the floor and I know one of the 2 shots he made was a pure weenie shot that rolled in.

I just feel it is important to get Drew playing like he did last year sooner rather than later. To do that, you need to feed him the ball. Not as much as Kobe or Pau surely but Phil realizes this and has said that the team will be looking to involve Drew more in the offense.

Right now, Drew is doing great at the defensive end. Although he got into foul trouble tonight, I thought he held his own against Shaq and did a good job protecting the rim. Tonight, he leaves the game and the next two shots by the Suns are layups.

But it’s offensively where we need the Drew who soared over everybody else and never lost the ball in a crowd or brought it back down. He is in there and just needs to be released. Because once he is, nobody will be able to stop the Lakers.

Tom

Charles,

>>>>>We need to run the Pick and Roll for Drew to get jump started!

Great point, Charles. You are absolutely correct. Thanks for bringing it up. Especially with Shaq guarding Drew. We all know that that is a major weakness of Shaq’s. Wonder if any of the so-called pundits and journalists will get that on their own before reading it on the blog. I bet one of those idiots will plagiarize you to portray his inside scoop on the game. LOL. We may have been the only team NOT to run the pick and roll against Shaq.

Tom

What happened to two time MVP Steve Nash? Is he getting old? REmember in 06 and 07, once you turn your head, there goes Nash. Tonite, I think Smush can keep up with the pace of Nash. He seemed to be not a happy camper with the half court speed, it took away his dexterity and shooting accuracy.

Any feedback Butler, this is your game on the blog how come you're so quiet like a lazy thief in hiding? Be a man, give us some explanation why the Suns lost tonight?

It's really fun chatting with y'all on the live chat ... even Pfunk, with his "Fire PJ" bandwagon of one!


Tom,

I don't think necessarily Pau "was invisible". I think it was more that the Suns, looking at the Bulls game as how he is dangerous, chose to double him on the post, that made alot more opportunities for shooters and Pau is a fantastic passer for a guy his size. As a result 9 dimes.

One reason why Kwa-may was never a true fit for us was that he wasn't a good passer out of the post. The triangle offense needs to have big men who can pass out of the post. That's why Bill Cartwright, Luc Longley started for Chicago since they were good passers out of the post. Shaq himself is also a great passer out of the post. Pau at this point and time is a much better passer out of the post than Drew is. It is extremely important for that otherwise teams can simply double and that causes problems for our inside game.

But as much as I think it is also important for Drew to be involved in the offense, I don't think it's also wise to be at the expense of the other guys such as Lamar, Jordan, Trevor, and heck even Radman who finally broke out of his slump. Otherwise they will have no rhythm going and the bench mob well, wouldn't be the minute men that they are lol.

Not saying Drew should be totally ignored out of the offense. I just think it's more important for us to continue to let Kobe be the 1st option on offense and Pau be the 2nd option. Drew is our wall on defense and can score when he has a good chance but now I think it's more important for the team as a whole to continue and not sacrifice the team's rhythm all for the sake of developing Drew's offense.

-blitz

Let's all celebrate for the win, that game was dedicated for Fatty.

Yes Fatty, we care for your early recovery, as Charles was asking in the other thread what kind of surgery did you have? You mentioned good for 15 minutes, lots of preps and was unconscious afterwards but could use the keyboard.

Did you have a circumcision?

I don't think we should all pull a Mike T and start clowning on Butler because his team lost. It was one game.

I will say this though - I don't want to hear anything more about Goran Dragic. I've seen him play 4 times now and that guy sucks.

Good game.

It's only November but come April the Suns will just be older.

blitz,

We agree to disagree. What you and I think really doesn’t matter. Drew is the one who will decide the situation. Either he will improve his play, become more aggressive, and demand and deserve the ball, or he will continue to just be a forgotten man on offense.

If he is worth the opinion and trust that the team had in giving him his extension, he will start doing that. Anything less would be a big disappointment in my mind, as much as I love and believe in Drew. The ball is in his court.

Tonight, I thought Drew did well on defense and OK on offense. He still has a ways to go. Hopefully, we can agree that Drew becoming the Beast will help the team. Our difference of opinion is that you think we won’t need Drew’s kind of offense where I think we won’t win the championship without it.

Once Drew gets back to last year’s level, he will give us 15/10/3/3 EVERY night because his shots will all be deep in the paint. Pau’s inside game is very polished but still relies on hitting those midrange set shot/jumpers and finesse moves to the hoop, which certain teams can take away from us. Counting on Pau to carry the load every night is like counting on your jump shot to always be on. Well, it won’t.

Pau may be our #2 option right now but the Lakers will be ready to beat the Celtics when Drew becomes our #2 option and Pau slides to #3. That is the difference between this year and last year. And I am not saying that Drew alone makes the Lakers tough or champs but that he is pivotal player because of the position he plays that can make the greatest difference. He is like the swing vote. If he is the Beast, the Lakers win it all. If he is not, the Finals will be a toss-up and the Celtics might steal another crown.

At least that is how I see it based on nothing more than what I read, see, and think. LOL.

Tom

1. Great win.
2. Don't know why, but I was actually worried going into the game.
3. Great job using defense and their brains to win this game.
4. Nash had back spasms. Too bad, I actually enjoy watching him dribble like he's in a holding pattern.
5. Too much kamikaze play by Kobe in the first quarter, but then he started driving to the hoop.
6. That double crossover by Kobe was sick.
7. Quick glance at the box score-Did not like that the only 2 starters with FTA were the guards. Were Bynum and Gasol scared of going through Shaq and Stat? Or were we just playing good, smart basketball?
8. Nice to see Shaq mending those fences. Life's too short to be bitter.
9. Can't believe the Lakers made it look this easy.
10. The Suns are discombobulated. They've been openly grumbling. The guards want more shots, the bigs want more touches.
11. Let's savor this until tomorrow night. 9-1!!!!!

I only got to watch the 4th quarter, but the tone of the crowd said it all. Laker fans at the game were drowning out the Suns fans...it was incredible. I could've mistaken it for a Lakers home game. Heck, the Laker fans at the game were probably louder than the Staples home crowd usually is.

I think we could have won this game by 30 if Phil really wanted to crush the Suns. It was good to see Luke out there, with all of his funky post moves that never seem to work now. He clearly needs more playing time to get the rust off. Let's hope he gets plenty of playing time tomorrow night.

:)

9-1.

What do we play for? RINGS!!!!

Lakers Today... Lakers Tomorrow... Lakers Forever.

GO LAKERS!

Faith is too depressed to celebrate this win.

Had no idea it was canceled AK, and Mayor of Kobe Town. That was a death blow :-(

Well I guess there's still the Lakers who live to play another game.

Mel,

1) It was Barnes that had back spasms not Nash.

2) Even though Pau and Drew didn't dominate, it was playing smart basketball. Against the Detroit Pistons, we played outside to outside basketball or outside to inside basketball which isn't really a recipe for success. Against the Suns when they tried to do the same thing to us, we played inside to outside basketball which invited double teams to the post and we kicked it out to good shooters. 9 assists from Pau Gasol speaks for itself.

and

3) Indeed. Porter uses a Shaq, Amare punch, way less from the Nash Stoudemire combo of 7 seconds or less. Just like Sir Charles Barkley said, sure the Suns are talented but outside of Amare and Shaq, most of their guys are shooters who want the ball. D'Antoni's offense gave them the opportunity to play to their strengths. Now emphasis is on post which guys aren't really happy with.

-blitz

LakerTom,

There's no doubt that Drew has a big role to play in our offense. But the question is who should be the primary option in the post. Drew frankly looks awkward playing in the post right now. Even during the stretch when he was dominating last year, his post game wasn't that polished.

Drew clearly needs to develop confidence in the post and solid go-to moves, not to mention better footwork and a stronger base. When Pau is not in the game, Drew definitely should get a bulk of the touches with hopes that he can become a dominant post presence. But until Drew proves that he can dominate in the post, Pau is clearly our #2 option.

Regardless of your preference, this is a great "problem" for us to have. I expect great things from both of them this season in whatever roles they fill.

"I guess BK's theory about the in and out game going through Gasol went up in smoke tonight............Did Gasol make any post moves tonight?"

pfunk-

No, it didn't. The point was that the Lakers are a much better team when they work from inside out. And if you were watching the game (in between trying to figure out how to blame the hard times at GM on Luke and PJ) it was very obvious that when the Lakers moved the ball and worked it inside, they were far more efficient and productive than when they hucked from distance and ignored the paint.

It doesn't matter if it's Pau (who did have nine dimes tonight, so it wasn't like he was just standing around scoping the crowd for women), LO, Bynum, Kobe, or someone else down low: When the Lakers operate inside-out, they are a far better team generating higher percentage shots from all over the floor.

BK

Aloha Laker Tom,

I think all of this talk about who will be the #2 option and the #3 option is kind of silly. On the show time teams, what option of big game James? What option was Byrun Scott? It really doesnt matter, the more the merrier. Andrew looks tenative to me. It is one thing for your body to heal but it is another to trust it again. There is a huge physcological hurdle that must be overcome after a serious injury. He will begin to trust the knee again and be fine, whether he is the 2nd or 3rd guy.

MH

I'll give my report right now.

Right now, as I see it, the Suns can't beat the Lakers.

You see the Lakers are too high powered and the Suns aren't that good defensively. Although Shaq isn't the problem. Shaq can still ball.

But the Suns, in theory, have the same philosophy as the Pistons and Celtics.

They have a huge center and a scoring PF.

Now if you notice the losses to the Piston and Celtics you should see one thing very clearly. Both teams dismantled the Lakers.

The Suns, even if they had won the game tonight...I don't think they could be the Lakers in a 7 games series. Why? Because the Suns weren't able to dismantle the Lakers. They, at best, were trading baskets.

I'll say it again. The Pistons and the Celtics "dismantle" the Lakers and that's why they beat them. They don't trade baskets with the Lakers. They demoralize the Lakers.

Now the reason why the Pistons can't beat the Celtics is because they play the same style of ball. But when the Pistons coach takes out Kwame and puts in Maxiell and the rest of the short line-up the Pistons get killed in the lane. When Kwame went of the game tonight the Pistons were up by 3 points 19-16 with a 2 and a half minutes left in the quarter.

When Kwame came back in the game the Celtics were up by 12 points 39-27. That's a 15 point difference. When the half ended the Pistons shaved 3 points off that lead. The score was 49-40.

In other words the Pistons outscored the Celtics 13-10 in the 5 mintues Kwame played to end the half. That's 3 points up in his first rotation. And 3 points up in his second rotation.

Now when the 2nd half started the Celtics outscored the Pistons by 4 points by the time Kwame was pulled from the game halfway through the 3rd quarter. Kwame finished with a plus 2 differential.

The Pistons got out scored by another 6 points to end the quarter and trailed by 20 to end the half.

Game over!

It plain, to me, to see that Kwame clogs the middle pretty good. When he's in there teams don't attack the rim at will. Does that mean the Pistons should beat everyone with Kwame in the game most of the time? No! It means the games should be close when he's in there against good teams. But when the Pistons try to go small with Maxiell or go thin with Amir Johnson...they get killed in the lane by good teams. Maxiell is too short and Johnson is too thin.

They both play with energy and it looks like they're good and exciting ball players. But when they are in the game against good teams, the rim is exposed. Not against Cleveland because their center is too slow-footed. They can expoit the Cavs. But they can't do that to the Celtics because the Celtics are a better defensive team than the Pistons.

Once the Pistons, against the Celtics, go away from the big line-up...they get killed by the Celtics.

Now what does that mean for the Lakers?

It means there are two teams that can beat them. The Pistons and the Celtics play the pefect ball to beat the Lakers. They have the right personal.

Wallace of Detroit could never play center for them with McDyess at the 4 spot and beat this Lakers team. Bynum's arms are too long for Wallace to deal with. Plus Wallace, as good as he is, is too thin in the azz to clog the lane. McDyess is too short to deal with Gasol. They only beat the Lakers if Brown holds Bynum and Wallace gets Gasol.

And when either Bynum or Gasol is out of the game and one is still in Kwame can still hold the other and the middle is still clogged.

Well, once the Pistons set the tone for the game then Maxiell and McDyess can come in and do damage.

The same goes for the Celtics. They have the right personal to deal with the Lakers.

But what's more is that the Lakers are a mixed team. They say they're a defensive team. But they're truely not...not against a real defensive team.

Amare is a defensive liability. And Steve Nash seems to be like a fish out of water when he's not playing small ball.

The Suns are flawed.

It looks like the Pistons might get better with McDyess and they might have a chance to beat the Celtics. But if for some reason the Celtics stumble...the Pistons can still beat the Lakers.

Again, the Lakers philosophy of ball plays perfectly into the Celtics and Pistons defensive philosophy and personal.

The Lakers aren't true defenders. Kwame is a true defender. Perkins is a true defender. They both weigh like 270-275.

Bynum and Gasol aren't true defenders. They're scorers. They can get away with their version of defense against the rest of the league and have their scoring abilities push them over the top in beating teams. But not against the Celtics and Pistons. Why?

Kwame pushes Bynum out of defensive position and Bynum is ineffective defensively against the Pistons.

Same goes with Perkins and the Celtics.

Kwame pushes Bynum out of offensive position and Bynum is ineffective offensively against the Pistons.

Same goes with Perkins and the Celtics.

I think the Lakers beat the Cavs.

Here's how to tell. Just like the Suns....if the Cavs don't dismantle the Lakers....the Lakers win with too much fire power.

The only way the Lakers lose is when they face a team that has the ability to dismantle them. And that's something the Pistons and Celtics can do right now.

The Pistons and Celtics don't have to dismantle any other teams in the league. But the Lakers are perfectly suited to be dismantled by both the Celtics and Pistons.

That's my opinion.

mike t.

"And if you were watching the game (in between trying to figure out how to blame the hard times at GM on Luke and PJ) it was very obvious that when the Lakers moved the ball and worked it inside, they were far more efficient and productive than when they hucked from distance and ignored the paint."

Obvious? What do you know about OBVIOUS?

"And if you were watching the game (in between trying to figure out how to blame the hard times at GM on Luke and PJ) it was very obvious that when the Lakers moved the ball and worked it inside, they were far more efficient and productive than when they hucked from distance and ignored the paint. "

Obvious? What do you know about OBVIOUS? The guy who defended Walton, Mihm and still protect PJ despite their OBVIOUS flaws. Gee...you have some nerve using that word.

mike t.

What to look for in future games against the Pistons and Celtics. If you see the Lakers get dismantled/manhandled...you know the Lakers won't be winning a championship this year. Not against those two teams.

If you see teams trading baskets with the Lakers or the Lakers looking like they're a good defensive team....they can't beat the Lakers.

Only the Pistons and the Celtics can beat the Lakers right now. I still have to see the Nuggets with Billups to see what's up there.

mike t.

blitz,

The espn recap mentioned Nash. But if Barnes has back spasms, too? "Ow, my aching back!"

http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=281120021

bk,

C'mon. Pau wouldn't be scoping out women in Phoenix. Only A-rod digs older chicks.

The great thing, no, the beautiful thing about this team is that we have many #2 options. On any given night, it could be Pau, Bynum, or even Kobe himself.

When you're winning and playing .900 ball, the pecking order doesn't matter. You ride the hot hand and go with what works.

That's why Odom's acting like he's in Candyland. That's why Luke accepts his role (as if he could do anything about it.) But you see what I'm getting at? It's like a masterpiece being painted before our very eyes.

Except it's painting by numbers and numbers in the paint.

I disagree with the thought that Drew has to be an offensive threat in order for us to be successful as a team.

This team is more loaded offensively than practically any other team in NBA history. We've got 2 dudes who have historically dropped 20 points a night on a fairly regular basis (LO and Pau), 1 dude who can go off for 50 on any given night (Kobe), and a lot of roleplayers who regularly contribute double-figure scoring (Fish, Vlad, Farmar, Ariza, Sasha). We are FINE on scoring. What is separating this team from last year's team is our defensive intensity and our strength on the glass. Drew has had a tremendous impact on both of those things, and the whole team is clicking as a result.

Who the hell cares if Mike T. whines that Drew's getting his points off putbacks and lobs? We've got the best record in the NBA and we're not playing our best ball yet.

Someone in the live chat commented that Luke played for ASU. Correction: he only played for Arizona alongside Richard Jefferson and Gilbert Arenas.

I agree. People should not be excited. We play Denver today. We all know how we got lit up by Iverson last week. Let's watch out for Billups.

Did anyone notice that pre game hug between Kobe and Shaq? That was awesome. Was that the first genuine hug these two ever exchanged? Maybe. Whatever it was it was awesome to see. In fact, I've watched it several times now on ESPN and I think...the rift between Shaq and Kobe is closed. I really believe it. And I think Shaq and Kobe believe it, and I think Shaq wants to join the Lakers to get more bling and Kobe wants to throw Shaq at Perkins and the boys as Bynum's back up.

So let it be written, so let it be done.

Wes

 


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