Allen Iverson on his way to Detroit for Chauncey Billups
Normally GMs will let the season stretch its legs a little before making a blockbuster move, but not this year. Reports have the Denver Nuggets shipping Allen Iverson to Motown for Chauncey Billups, plus Antonio McDyess and Cheikh Samb (remember him?). Obviously, this is a huge deal that, assuming it goes through, will impact both teams now and down the road. Some quick thoughts: For the Pistons, they get some badly needed scoring punch, along with a very driven future HOFer desperate to get back to the Finals. It's a blueprint that worked for Boston, right? Losing Billups will hurt, but the Pistons are big on Rodney Stuckey, and think he's ready to assume frontline duty. But even if the deal doesn't work this season- and it might not since the Rip Hamilton/AI combination is in some ways as awkward as the AI/Melo duo- Detroit gains some serious flexibility once Iverson's $20 mil are wiped from the books. On a talent-for-talent level, they come out ahead. How it plays out will be interesting to watch.
Denver not only saves a little money now (they'll likely buy out McDyess), but I think they've improved as well. The Iverson/'Melo combo just didn't work. They're both great players, but it wasn't a good fit, despite a legitimate push from both to find on-court harmony. Billups gives them a true point, and ought to make better players out of Anthony and JR Smith. They'll run a better offense and take better shots, which will help them on the other end. Iverson is a better player, Billups makes more sense.
The deal doesn't make Denver an upper echelon team, but I think they're more likely to make the playoffs now than they were Sunday.
BK
I knew I should have had JR Smith higher on my fantasy preranks.
Interesting deal. I'd say the Pistons just got better and so did the Nugs. What team will ultimately score McDyess? That could wind up being the biggest factor.
Posted by: Jesterguru | November 03, 2008 at 11:03 AM
Hey isn't Mitch Kupchak identical to Mr Garrison from South Park?
Posted by: David | November 03, 2008 at 11:05 AM
I think there's two things possibly at play here that haven't been discussed.
Both Billups and McDyess are Denver guys. McDyess began his career here and Billups grew up here.
Second, I think the loss to the Lakers on Saturday is what caused Denver to give the greenlight to this deal.
One superstar guard verses a perennial all-star (and solid defender) plus a big man.... where they need help due to trading Camby for nothing.
The writing was on the wall... the Nuggets could not beat Utah, and could not beat LA and they have no hope of doing so anytime soon. Plus, Carter has emerged as a solid PG on the Nuggets.
I think in some sense, it make sense for Denver. I cannot say the same for Detroit except AI gives them that "superstar" to go-to... but it's not like Billups was chopped liver.
In short, a mistake for Denver. Iverson is a fan favorite here and the Nuggets are showing that they're stupid. Why the fans threw stuff at me and don't throw stuff at management, I do not know.
Posted by: Tim-4-Show | November 03, 2008 at 11:10 AM
BK,
It's obvious that the reason behind this move is that Kwame can take over Dic's minutes. This will make the Pistons a much better defensive team.
Mike T. (via LakerTom)
Posted by: LakerTom | November 03, 2008 at 11:12 AM
GOOD TRADE... Coincidence how they did the trade right after they lost to the Lakers....
Go LAKERS!!!
...
Posted by: lakersgameboi | November 03, 2008 at 11:15 AM
The lakers were indeed quite fortunate to have avoided the improved Nugs. I don't see how the lakers can match up toughness-wise or grit-wise with Denver, not with Dyess able to dominate odum as he does.
The Nugs might just have superceded the lakers in the West Conf. Time will tell!
Posted by: BUTLER | November 03, 2008 at 11:15 AM
Thanks to Laker Legacy for texting me the news.
Denver gets a steady point guard and power forward.
The D gets cap relief.
Posted by: Charles | November 03, 2008 at 11:16 AM
Kwame is doing well in Detroit 8 points in 7 minutes last game. I know Mike T. misses him so much.
Go Lakers!
Posted by: Laker Phil | November 03, 2008 at 11:19 AM
Hmm, rushing the trade season.
Sensible move, but won't put a ring on AI's finger this year.
Remember the good ol' days of bloggers workin' daily trades, like B Cook, Smush and Kwame for Le Bron?
No really, it works in the trade machine.
ahh, memories.
Posted by: VMan | November 03, 2008 at 11:21 AM
Chauncy is a Denver native, and will help dish out assists probably better than Iverson did.
And Iverson is tough enough for Detroit. Rumor has it that the Pistons are gonna use that $35 mil to get Robocop if the AI experiment fails.
Posted by: ajax | November 03, 2008 at 11:21 AM
It certainly is an interesting trade. I do think it benefits Denver more, but I'm uncertain how much a difference it will make for either. Denver will now more likely make the playoffs. It's hard to say for Detroit. It obviously depends on how Iverson gels with this team.
GMs across the league have to be freaking out right now. Outside of the Lakers, Boston, New Orleans, and Houston, no one else really has much of a chance.
GO LAKERS!
Posted by: Jon K. | November 03, 2008 at 11:22 AM
it won't make any difference. Denver will be an 8th seed squad and will get swept by the Lakers in the first round. ::yawn::
Joe Dumars is on panic mode.
AI will never win a title
Celtics... well... they're just garbage.
Posted by: sixonezero | November 03, 2008 at 11:23 AM
Iverson may be better on offense but he is not a point guard.
Stuckey is the future point guard for the team,which means that Rip and Iverson have to share duties at the 2....This can only mean 1 thing...The Pistons are building around Kwame...
.............NOT.................lol......Who would have thought the Iverson tour would have begun at this age....He wont be getting another 20mill deal again...Joe Dumars is to smart for that..Billups will make Melo a much better player and give the team some direction instead of a 3point shootout night after night......The Nuggets win this one ...Will Mcdyess stick ?
Posted by: Thirty2 | November 03, 2008 at 11:24 AM
wow, Detroit throws in the towel after 2 games and goes for the salary dump...
My gosh, what kind of horrible situation did Kwame Brown walk into? I thought Kwame Brown ONLY played for titles?
Posted by: Luke I was going to stay at the luxury U2 hotel Walton | November 03, 2008 at 11:29 AM
BUTLER,
"The Nugs might just have superceded the lakers in the West Conf. Time will tell!"
LMAO. Why don't you make a list of the teams that you have surpassing us so we don't have to get them one at a time.
You had the Trailblazers beating us until we beat the stuffing our of them and said the Clippers were ready to take LA until we won by 38. Now you're here telling us Denver is going to kill us with Mcdysses (sp) when the Nuggets are going to buy him out. lol.
You're a riot.
Posted by: Xodus | November 03, 2008 at 11:32 AM
There is still something wrong with this picture.
Billups is big shot in the clutch. Not to mention he shows up to play night in and night out. AI? Well he's disinterested a lot of the time. And way past his prime.
Posted by: Faith | November 03, 2008 at 11:33 AM
Not to mention Detroit's defense struggles with this deal.
Posted by: Faith | November 03, 2008 at 11:34 AM
No, Mitch looks like John Malkovich.
Posted by: THI | November 03, 2008 at 11:35 AM
I like this trade much more from Denver's perspective than Detroit's. I'm speaking in basketball terms, because it's clear that Detroit is trying to clear cap space.
Denver get Billups who is one of the most underrated point guards in the league and he's a guy that can the offense effectively to find guys like Melo and JR Smith.
I don't think Detroit will get further this season than they would have with AI. I don't see Iverson as the same explosive scorer he used to be(though he's still very good). Detroit is still second best in the East in my mind.
Posted by: Xodus | November 03, 2008 at 11:36 AM
REPOST:
Reporting from what is hopefully a short term of jury duty service...
I actually think the AI/Billups-Dice deal makes sense for both teams. Iverson makes Detroit a considerably more dynamic and dangerous team offensively and Prince/Rip/Sheed/Amir are good enough to cover him defensively. Plus, the Pistons have been publicly debating blowing the whole thing up, and losing Billups for an expiring deal makes that potential approach considerably easier and perhaps even less painfully, since Rip, Prince and all the core younger players are still around. .
For Detroit, they get an instant defensive upgrade with Billups and (if he sticks around) Dice. Billups also doesn't need the ball as much as AI to be effective. Just as importantly (and maybe even more) that's a team in dire need of leadership and accountability in that locker room. Billups and Dice should help a lot along those lines.
Plus, Denver gets the intangibles provided by Cheick Samb!!!
AK
Posted by: | November 03, 2008 at 11:38 AM
Detroit is blowing it up. AI and Sheed's contracts amount to $33M coming off the books. Even including Kwame's player option, they still are only carrying about $38M for next season. They look committed to banking their future on that young core of Rip, Tayshaun, Maxiell and Stuckey. If they can make noise this year it'll be gravy but I think the team looks drastically different next season no matter what level of success the team sees this season. This was a good trade for them from a dollars standpoint.
Denver just got a lot tougher and more stable. They went from a team whose players could win them a lot of games but also lose them a lot of games to a hard-working core group that'll be much more consistent. Although, I think JR Smith and K Mart are still their albatrosses. This was a good trade for them from a talent standpoint.
Posted by: lakers_sth | November 03, 2008 at 11:48 AM
Good morning CRUE!
Wow - big news on the block today.... Can't say I really give a crap one way or the other. Lakers are still going to go through both teams on their way to the title round. It may be a little tougher, but I do believe the Show is up for the challenge!
I'm liking this "mini-camp" we've got over the next week purely as a chance to tweak the defense here & there and give guys more time to work on their on-court chemistry (and of course for Sasha to get into game shape). However, as a fan I have to say UURRRGGHHH!! And then we only get the Clips again?? Double UURRGGHH! Oh well - we may long for these days in the middle of an epic road trip as the season progresses - lol!
GO LAKERS!
Posted by: justanothermambafan | November 03, 2008 at 11:49 AM
Another point guard that got to the finals comes to the west. Hurts Butler so much, he's jumping on the Thuggets bandwagon since Stephen John Nash will never do get to the Finals.
Don't worry, Butler. Fisher, Parker, Jason Kidd, and now Chauncey can tell Nash what the Finals are like. Maybe that's why they went out and got Terry Porter as a coach? Lord knows Stephen John doesn't know the toughness and unselfishness it takes.
Them Hornets look good, even without Chandler and Peja huh?
Posted by: Chicken Little | November 03, 2008 at 11:50 AM
lol Ajax.
Meanwhile the NBA has officially become fantasy basketball lol. These deals were once "dream" deals.
Posted by: Faith | November 03, 2008 at 11:51 AM
LakerTom (channeling Michael T.),
I never thought of that, but perhaps you're right. You can't just keep Kwame Brown on the bench! You've got to free up minutes for him. THAT must have been the true engine moving this trade!
GO LAKERS!
Posted by: Jon K. | November 03, 2008 at 11:55 AM
LAKERS SUX! GO A.I!
Posted by: GUNNER24 | November 03, 2008 at 11:56 AM
That's an advantage to the Nuggets,
Pistons gets a fading Superstar plus the services of Kwame in replacement of McDyess. Yaks!
Posted by: Edwin Gueco | November 03, 2008 at 12:01 PM
some part of me wants to laugh an e-vil laugh..
a-hahahahaha
hoooooo
this is all our doing. The ripples of the Pau trade and our scary D continues.
Posted by: Faith | November 03, 2008 at 12:14 PM
Edwin-
Close. He was in the Mo Evans deal.
BK
Posted by: Brian Kamenetzky | November 03, 2008 at 12:15 PM
Weak, BUTLER, really weak.
Back in the land of the cerebrally animate, I still don't buy this for Detroit. Yes, they lacked a "go to" guy to get points in crunch time, but...well, Alan Iverson, motivated or not (and I agree he will be) is going to run all over the court and shoot a lot. That's all he's ever done.
Yes, he can put up points this way, but the only way this has ever worked is when you have a large group of roll players sans ego who are willing to play super disciplined defense and clean up his messes (read: misses).
Detroit now has less size and interior scoring, a very small back court and an almost inherent discipline problem (I mean that only in an X's and O's, on the court sort of way). This may be seen as a way of taking pressure of of 'Sheed because he doesn't have to be the best player on the court, but I think this may backfire since he is their only post threat (if he's even playing down there) and their only quality big. Make that: only guy listed above 6'9", other than Mr. Calves. Ouch.
Michael Curry better be Larry Brown without the baggage or their not getting appreciably better, and they may have gotten worse.
GO LAKERS
Posted by: Cameron | November 03, 2008 at 12:15 PM
Faith,
The Pau Gasol trade was brilliant on so many levels. It fueled the Shaq to Phoenix trade and Kidd to Dallas trade.
Basically, outside of making the Lakers a MUCH better team, it literally unbalanced the majority of GMs in the league into making bad, rushed trades that are not for their long-term (even mid-term, EVEN short-term) benefit... thereby heightening the balance of power in favor of the Lakers.
Just great.
Thank you, Mitch.
GO LAKERS!
Posted by: Jon K. | November 03, 2008 at 12:18 PM
Vman,
>>>Remember the good ol' days of bloggers workin' daily
>>>trades, like B Cook, Smush and Kwame for Le Bron?
>>>No really, it works in the trade machine.
Yeah, or Kwame, Critter, and Aaron McKie for Pau Gasol.
Shyeah right. Like that would really happen.
Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | November 03, 2008 at 12:26 PM
BUTLER,
>>>The Nugs might just have superceded the lakers in the
>>>West Conf. Time will tell!
Jumping to conclusions much?
Did it also occur to you that if Denver has passed the Lakers,
then they went by Phoenix along the way?
So I guess by your prediction that pushes the Lakers down to
the 2 seed... and Phoenix out of the playoffs.
Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | November 03, 2008 at 12:27 PM
I knew Iverson's days were number when he was benched in the fourth quarter for game 4 of the 1st round of the playoffs. It was like the coach was signaling to everyone his preference going forward. You could just see that Denver that looked so good on paper didn't work. If you can't beat the Lakers when they are playing at their worst (last game), when can you beat them?
I figured they were going to trade him in the summer, a little weird to make the move now, but I guess Detroit was suddenly ready to play ball. Seems a little weird since arguably Detroit was the only other team last year that could have beat the Lakers, a bit of a gamble for Detroit. Be interesting to see how it turns out.
Posted by: Laker Justice | November 03, 2008 at 12:42 PM
Xodus,
"it's clear that Detroit is trying to clear cap space."
That is what I thought at first, but after checking next years free agents or those who can opt out, there is only one worthy of any excitement, and that is KB24.
For some reason, I just don't see him going anywhere. lol
Posted by: Eric M. | November 03, 2008 at 12:44 PM
"The Nugs might just have superceded the lakers in the West Conf. Time will tell!"
Holy Moly Butler, don't you ever get sick of it? It's like you've stuck your fingers in your ears and are saying "I can't hear you na na naaaaaa can't hear you - can't can't can't!!!!!" Just like a three year old. Unbelievable.
CB is a really good point guard, and DEN just got better but I am confident that during the next matchup we will see our team, which is already dang good, do a great job
on them. As long as they're moving their feet on defense and getting those stops as well as the offensive rebounds (you go Pau) we're looking good.
Chicken Little - "Thuggets" was so apt and very funny!
*joins Faith in an evil laugh* muahahahahahhahaha!!!!
PnG all the way baby.
I LOVE LA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: longtimelakerlover | November 03, 2008 at 12:52 PM
My second favorite team is the Pistons (family roots) and I personally hate this trade. Hate it!
On a completely different subject: I tried rating the Laker players on competitive attitude, unselfishness (team centric) and talent/skills. Obviously all these players are extremely competitive, talented and I think this team doesn't have a single player that I would consider selfish; some are just more team oriented (occasionally to their own detriment), Anyway here's my rankings. I have to say that after the first 4 or 5 it was very difficult to rate these guys. I'm looking forward to being crucified. Or not.
Competitive
1) Kobe
2) Jordan
3) Sasha
4) Gasol
5) Fisher
6) Mihm
7) Bynum
8) Ariza
9) Mbenga
10) Walton
11) Lamar
12) Radmanovich
Team oriented
1) Luke
2) Lamar
3) Gasol
4) Fisher
5) Ariza
6) Mihm
7) Mbenga
8) Bynum
9) Kobe
10) Farmar
11) Sasha
12) Radmanovich
Talented/Skilled
1) Kobe
2) Lamar
3) Gasol
4) Bynum
5) Ariza
6) Sasha
7) Radmanovich
8) Farmar
9) Walton
10) Fisher
11) Mihm
12) Mbenga
Posted by: giantsquid | November 03, 2008 at 12:56 PM
At first glance it seems uncharacteristic that the Pistons would just throw in the towel (for this year) like that, but it does make long term sense. Plus the trade provides an opportunity to throw in the towel without being overly blatant about it, and it also helps that AI will bring some entertainment value to the Pistons while they muck through the rest of a futile season.
This trade really doesn't help the Lakers' cause at all. Iverson was like a safety stop that guaranteed the Nuggets wouldn't ever be consistent enough to be competitive. Denver will be tougher to beat with Chauncey and tougher still if McDyess stays with them...Hopefully we can still count on Carmelo to keep refusing to grow up into an adult basketball player, because otherwise Denver could become a very difficult team to beat.
Posted by: guity | November 03, 2008 at 12:57 PM
well...well...well
good morning lakers fans all around the world this is a very shocking move by the pistons and the nuggets and it was our lakers' fault hahaha the nuggets are looking to toughen up and they got billups and mcdyess and our beloved past laker cheik samb whom we drafted and the pistons are looking like the memphis grizzlies right now giving up something and getting kwame back sorry mike t. it's like giving them money for a piece of cake with a bite on it that's A.I. he's done how good he was that's past these days i never seen him shot a three ball without missing his first attempts LOL alas laker fans let us all be grateful that this year GOD is definitely on our side
LET HELL BE RAISE LAKERS!!!
GO LAKERS!!!
GO MAMBA!!!
Posted by: hellraiser(certified mamba fan) | November 03, 2008 at 01:00 PM
Rasheed Wallace
I love Rasheed, but at this point they should try to deal him for someone who is slightly more emotionally stable. Maybe Wallace and Hamilton for a upscale low post presence and a serviceable backup guard. Should do it now so the team has time to gel before the playoffs.
Posted by: giantsquid | November 03, 2008 at 01:04 PM
Cameron,
But Detroit now has Kwame Brown freed up so he can average 28 points 20 rebounds and six blocks a game with zero turnovers.
Do not doubt the power of the magic calves!
The NBA Finals now runs through Detroit!
GO LAKERS!
Posted by: Jon K. | November 03, 2008 at 01:08 PM
i cnt belive what im hearing the only true detroit fan is me billups made the team it hurts cuz i dnt no if to be happy or not cause there my two fav plyers i hope chauncy teaches them a lession
Posted by: DaEagle137 | November 03, 2008 at 01:10 PM
I bet Tayshaun Prince is available, possibly even Rip Hamilton. They ride out Iverson's and Sheed's contracts, pick up some high draft picks for Prince and/or Hamilton, do a complete salary dump and rebuild like Oklahoma City.
OK City is interesting, they've got a good big 3 to build around, Durant, Green and Westbrook, they need one more to become legit, most likely a Center. If they lotto this year in the draft they pick up another young player to add to that core group and then either this year or next pick up a free agent and walla! Phoenix will be out of the playoffs, OK City will be IN!
Posted by: Luke Thank God I don't sell GM cars Walton | November 03, 2008 at 01:11 PM
Might Detroit be positioning themselves to go after Kobe and/or Lamar next summer? Maybe LeBronze the summer after next? This trade could have a huge effect on the Lakers next year. With top teams clearing cap space this could be Lamar's last year as a Laker. Enjoy this team now because it may be too cost prohibative to keep it intact.
Posted by: dymandave | November 03, 2008 at 01:11 PM
McDyess would be a good fit on our already stocked and talented group of benchwarmers....But dayum, who's minutes would he take?? Not much to go around..From a physical standpoint, he would be solid, not to mention his mid-range game....
Posted by: lakersrydeordie | November 03, 2008 at 01:14 PM
if Denver buys out McDyess (i read he only wants to play for Detroit), i assume Detroit will resign him. if this happens, it's almost a straight up swap, AI for Billups. i'm not even going to regard that Samb guy.
i've heard of this trade referred to as the Piston's "renting" AI for a season, which is basically what is happening. i like it. i think it's a smart move, especially if they're going to enter the Lebron/Wade/Bosh sweepstakes in two years.
Piston's do not necessarily get better, but it puts them in a solid position to, even by next year. at the most, two years.
oh yeah, and only 1 Lakers game this week really blows. but i get to see the Nets host the Suns and the Pistons this week, woohoo! (i live in NJ)
Posted by: leonardbast | November 03, 2008 at 01:25 PM
Hey Hobbit,
33% shooting from Trevor. He could be the next Brian Cook in that all his shots are 3 point shooting and while that means his 3 pointers are good, so will his FG% suck! Haha 33.3% shooting haha!
(Being sarcastic, Cook is no way talented as Trevor, just sending the message back to your face :P)
In other news,
The Iverson-Billups trade looks bad and good. Good since it gives the Pistons a talented playmaker and gives the Nuggets an outside threat.
Bad because AI hates playing point guard (which he will in Detroit since Hamilton is the SG) and will be forced to play it while Billups is more the outside shooter and that might conflict with Carmelo since his preference is shooting rather than driving to the lane.
McDyess gives the Nuggets more inside game but he's a reserve at best and isn't as good as he was before his micro fracture surgery. Heck even Kendrick Perkins had his way with him in the ECF
This might be the last year the Pistons are really considered good. Next year Sheed and AI's contracts come off the book so in effect might be rebuilding. Hopefully Dumars can lure the big free agents that are coming out in the next two years so the Pistons like the Lakers will not endure too much of a rebuilding season. He really has got tons of faith in Maxiell and Johnson though. And Stuckey while he has talent, I dunno if it will reach Billups level (when Billups got to his prime with Larry Brown and Flip Saunders).
The trade may actually work out in favor of the Lakers. With Billups in Detroit, if he gets in his shooting rhythm Kobe can guard him better than he would have done against Iverson since Iverson has a really good penetrating game. (When Kobe guarded Billups in Game 5 of the 04 Finals, his defense finally slowed down the hot shooting Billups who kept on torching Gary Payton). Otherwise the Nuggets won't be as dangerous as they would have in my opinion if they kept AI.
-blitz
Posted by: kobeblitz | November 03, 2008 at 01:35 PM
This trade does nothing for either team, because either team is not going to make the playoffs. So whatever!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: wow | November 03, 2008 at 01:56 PM
Jon K,
" I never like Iverson and I hate the Pistons. More concentration of evil for me to root against "
I couldn't agree more--Sir you are preaching to the choir---though I would have substituted "detest" for "never liked" concerning Iverson..
also I agree with some other posters about this trade---ie who the hell really even cares--the Lakers could beat either team with all their players combined....even Kwami
GO LAKERS !!!
Posted by: Floyd | November 03, 2008 at 01:58 PM
giantsquid,
I liked your rankings, but I think you were a bit too rough on Rad Vlad.
GO LAKERS!
Posted by: Jon K. | November 03, 2008 at 02:11 PM