The Spanish media are a bunch of suck-ups
It was a pretty mellow day in El Segundo as the Lakers prep for Saturday night's matchup with Barcelona at Staples, but there was (as you'd suspect) an influx of Spanish media in the building. Clever, gift-bearing Spanish media. After peppering Kobe Bryant with questions about the global nature of the game, and, of course, the obligatory soccer queries, they presented him with a personalized, autographed photo of Lionel Messi, who (and you'll forgive my ignorance of the beautiful game) is apparently the best futbol player on the planet. No surprise, Kobe liked it a great deal.
Suck-ups.
Beyond that? It's clear that Phil Jackson is still tinkering with the rotation, and all the combinations available to him. Vladimir Radmanovic has been playing with the starting unit, but isn't guaranteed to stay there. Lamar Odom is still bringing the ball up... but didn't today in practice. Trevor Ariza and Luke Walton? Working their way in. They have experimented with the 6-foot-7-and-above lineup. How about starting the season with the same group of starters that ended last year? "There's a chance of that," Jackson said. "We play five games in the next six or seven days, so we'll have a lot of time on the floor to get us working things out, rotations and stuff." He's thought about playing Derek Fisher and Jordan Farmar together but may not have time to get there in the preseason.
So short of DJ Mbenga at the two -- and seriously, he's the unsung king of the heat check, so a little time at off guard could be fun -- everything else is still on the table?
"Yeah."
Not much else to report. Chris Mihm's movement continues to improve. He's running, and Jackson noted that his "hop" is returning. The rest of the game, shooting, rhythm, etc., ought to follow. That's the hope, at least. In today's scrimmage, Mihm looked very comfortable, running the floor for a dunk and making a nice post up move on Mbenga to hit a baby hook.
I also got a laugh from hearing Jim Cleamons bark instructions to Sun Yue, pronouncing it "Soon Yi." The intricacies of inflection aside, it gave me a brief, somewhat uncomfortable Woody Allen flash.
AUDIO:
Download kobe_bryant_10.17.mp3
Download phil_jackson_10.17.mp3
Download pau_gasol_10.17.mp3
BK
Kobe would have appreciated the Lionel Messi autograph, dude loves el futbol. It's still pretty cool that they gave him it, I mean, how many times do you see American media give gift to the people they make money off of writing nasty stories about them?
Posted by: Peanut Butter Spread | October 17, 2008 at 07:41 PM
With Sasha hurt, I guess there's been no opportunity to test him and Sun at C and PF? I call it the wind in the saplings offense.
Posted by: dave m | October 17, 2008 at 07:52 PM
Time to overcome that ignorance and get to watching some Futbol! Messi is INSANE!!
Posted by: Mayor of Kobe-Town | October 17, 2008 at 08:07 PM
Mayor-
Yeah, I could use some knowledge. I'm not one of those reflexively anti-soccer types. I respect the athletes and the skill involved... I'll watch the World Cup and big events like that, but really haven't gotten into it beyond that.
BK
Posted by: Brian Kamenetzky | October 17, 2008 at 08:19 PM
HugoSpain
Where are you my old friend? This is REALLY BIG, no?
"Gasol se reencontrará con el Barcelona"
http://tinyurl.com/5wvxop
"El histórico enfrentamiento entre ambos equipos tendrá lugar en el Staples Center Arena."
Kobe, Gasol, Navarro, si !!
Posted by: Fatty | October 17, 2008 at 08:21 PM
SHADES OF ANIMAL FARM…
The Orwellian atmosphere keeps getting thicker every day. The pigs keep snorting and now the chickens are crowing as well. The blogyard has become a pigpen and henhouse of complainers. Will pig and chicken little leave for more spacious digs if we vote for Prop 2? Who cares.
The Lakers and Drew will reach an agreement on a 5-year extension because the Lakers will not risk Drew becoming a free agent and Drew wants to be a Laker. It’s that simple. Would the team prefer to have more proof that Drew is going to be a dominant center? Of course. Is their a risk that Drew might not turn out to be the player everyone is projecting? Not a great risk but a risk for sure. Will any of this stuff prevent the Lakers and Drew from reaching an agreement? Not a chance in hell. I will give you two words why I am so confident: Jim Buss.
There is no doubt that Jim Buss put his reputation as the future managing owner of the Lakers on Andrew Bynum. There is also no doubt he was a leading voice in the Lakers’ front office that refused to include Bynum in the many trade discussions that the Lakers had last year. There is absolutely no way, having seen how Andrew played last year before getting injured that Jim is going to back down. And I see Jerry and Mitch in the same boat. This is one of those franchise-make-or-break decisions that the Buss family has always handled well.
I would remind all of the posters who cringe at the salary figures to realize that what the Lakers are going to pay Drew ($78M to $88M over 5 years) is really what his market value is. Just look at the size of contracts that front court players like Andrew Bogut got from a franchise that has nowhere near the revenues or value of the Lakers’ franchise. You also have to realize that max contracts go up every year because they are tied to the total revenue of the league. These decisions are why NBA general managers are paid big bucks. Mitch will get it right.
Everybody needs to calm down and stop worrying that Kobe has a dead leg or broker finger or that Drew will not return to the Beast he was last year once he gets another month or two under his belt. Or that the Lakers will overpay for Drew. Mark my words, Andrew Bynum will be the Next Great Lakers Center and a future Hall of Fame Player. And he will provide the mean toughness and dominant inside game that the Lakers need to take over top spot in the NBA.
A month from now, this will all be forgotten and we will all be relishing the Era of the Beast and even pig and chicken little will be wearing AB17 jerseys – although they will still be in their tight quarters as Prop 2 will have gone down in defeat. And the Lakers, like the country, will be rejuvenated and redeemed and everything will be well in Lakersville and the USA.
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | October 17, 2008 at 08:30 PM
For anyone who has been following the career of Kenny George, 7' 7" 360 lbs - UNC Asheville, this is a sad story.
http://tinyurl.com/6y6mg2
A video profile of George courtesy of ESPN
http://tinyurl.com/62b4p5
Posted by: Fatty | October 17, 2008 at 09:07 PM
Anyone heard about the game that is scheduled for Sunday-- especially Who the Lakers are playing?
Lakerspuntocom says "TBD non-NBA" --- no time, no name, nada.
Not very informative...
Posted by: spunsilk_coach | October 17, 2008 at 09:37 PM
Lionel Messi as the best soccer on the planet?
I don't watch as much world soccer as the NFL, NCAA (both basketball and football), MLB (Dodgers) and especially the NBA but I would rate Diego Maradona to have been the best soccer player in the international soccer game and David Beckham wouldn't be a bad choice either.
but heck, they recoginze Kobe is the best player in the NBA at the time being so best thing they could do is honor him (especially after Kobe brought Team USA to victory after Spain nearly caught up in the gold medal round) so I guess an autograph from Messi isn't too bad.
Hoping that Mihm is indeed well and that he can be solid as a backup. His offense looks to be back but did his defense improve? Him at power forward isn't exactly the best I would think for him defensively.
Fish and Jordan COULD sometimes work as it would offer a penetrating guard and a spot up shooter that allows Kobe to go to Small Forward (especially if Sasha is shooting ice cold at 1-11 shooting). One problem is though Fish isn't tall enough to defend shooting guards (like Iverson is too short to defend most shooting guards unless he has someone like Eric Snow to do that) and having Kobe guard Rondo while Fish guard Ray Allen gave Ray Ray more opportunities to find easier baskets.
Which kinda makes it odd as to why Joe Crawford a rookie has an edge over Coby Karl. Granted Coby isn't probably as athletic as Joe Crawford is but not only does Coby have more experience but he is a true shooter and while Crawford is a solid shooter as well, he never got more then 36% during his years in Kentucky. Crawford should be sent to D-League and if he really has done well there, then there is no reason to have him over Coby Karl.
-blitz
Posted by: thekobeblitz | October 17, 2008 at 09:38 PM
Messi is like ....Brett Farve,Deron Williams and Maradonna rolled into one ....Great vision ...Unselfish.....Maradonna skills.
Posted by: Thirty2 | October 17, 2008 at 10:03 PM
C'mon you american silly men - watch the great Messi!
The truth is, kobey couldn't match Messi as an athlete. The imagination and domination Messi exhibits is matched by only one playa in the NBA:
Steve "Best PG of All Time" Nash
Posted by: BUTLER | October 17, 2008 at 10:04 PM
Butler how can you say that Nash is the best PG of all time. You cannot even say that Nash is better than Kidd. Kidd could lead a team to the finals, twice. What has Nash done so great in the post season?
MJT
Posted by: MJT | October 17, 2008 at 11:55 PM
eh, messi is not that great. Definately an amazing passer though.
Go Lakers
Posted by: TrueLakerFan | October 18, 2008 at 01:33 AM
Yeah, Messi is a great player, but not the best in the world. Of course this is a basketball blog, so I'll forgive you BK, haha.
Posted by: Gabe | October 18, 2008 at 03:33 AM
Blitz
No way has David Beckham ever been close to being the best player in the world...most marketable yes ...greatest? - no way.Great skill and heart but I'd go so afar as to say he's never been in the top ten players in the world at any given moment.
The best players right now are Cristiano Ronaldo or maybe Brazils Kaka.As far as history is concerned its probably Pele...
Posted by: Kiwi | October 18, 2008 at 04:39 AM
How we doing Tom?
You make some great points as always but you've also got to remember the lakers are in a different position to the likes of the Bucks due to the fact guys want to play here AND more crucially they've got options.
What Bynum has to remember is that the lakers made the finals without him,theres another all star type guy who plays his position and theres a number of different ways to make the thing work.
He hasnt shown he can stay healthy or sustain his play,his attitude has appeared vaguely suspect,and it hasnt been proven that the Gasol/Bynum pairing is necessarily going to be as effective as it could be...its all about chemistry and last year the lakers had it WITHOUT him.
In some respect theres an argument for Bynum to ask for money on his potential becasue his value is based on his age and the fact that he's the supposed future cornerstone.If you are going to invest on that then you need to pay him accordingly...he could very easily be underpaid throughout most of that contract.Grooming a franchise player while contending is a great luxury to have but theres a point to where if it hampers the team too much in the short term there is always the option to trade him with a couple of our bad contracts...how about to new York with Radmanovic for Duhan and Lee plus? get some reasonably priced guys that could improve some of the weak points from last year that we can use some of that money to resign along with Lamar?
I dont want to see him go of course but the lakers have got a contending team without him.To be able to groom for the future is a huge luxury.They're trying to accomplish something NOW and if anyone gets in the way of that - with the position they are in everyone but Kobe is dispensable.
I personally think any offer over $60 mil Bynum should accept.If it is true he's been offered in the $70's then hes crazy not to just take it.The cost on the team and on the public relations side for him just isnt worth it.Alot of guys are going to be sacrificing to keep this team intact over the next few years and everyones got to be on board.I understand bynum is young and money is important but really it hard to justify that when you are being offered $70 mil plus.This is what I meant a couple of months ago when I said the danger is that he's in a different position from most players on the team in terms of the priorities in his career.Fair enough if he wants the more personal accolades at this point - you cant begrudge it but at what point to you just want a team where everyones focusing on the same goals.I think Kobe would still be more than happy to 'ship his posterior out' if he thought it was going to hamper his chances to win now.
Theres alot more going on here.It's unlikely but could happen if this stuff starts to affect the team this year.
Posted by: Kiwi | October 18, 2008 at 05:02 AM
Hey there. We've got 2-4 roster spots in our Fantasy Basketball league here if anyone wants to join: http://basketball.fantasysports.yahoo.com/nba/57761
Posted by: Robert Chen | October 18, 2008 at 05:02 AM
LakerTom,
Taking shots at the name now that you're feeling on the defensive is hardly becoming. You know better than to stoop to that level.
Your staunch support of making bad business decisions leads me to believe that you aren't in the business of business yourself and hence are completely blind to the nature of risk/reward. Pragmatism is the name of the game here, and Jerry Buss has never been a bad businessman. He'll more likely pay Drew what he's worth by allowing the market to set a value after the season and Drew showing his value to Lakers and the league. It's unfortunate that you're so arrogant you can't admit that you were wrong about the Lakers losing Andrew to free agency like you stated in the previous long winded post about how right you are. His restricted free agency is a great tool for how the Lakers can gauge his value, so why shouldn't they use it?
I suppose the argument will be over in a couple of weeks, and one of us might be right and the rest of us might be wrong. I'm sure you'll show your true classy colors then and humbly accept defeat or victory. Probably not though. It's more likely that the rest of us will get to read another long winded diatribe describing how right you are and how the rest of us are not.
Keep up that classy act LakerTom.
Posted by: "Pig" Miller | October 18, 2008 at 07:32 AM
Laker Tom,
I don't think anyone is challenging AB's potential. As raw material, he absolutely shines. But customers don't walk into a bakery expecting to walk out with a bag of flour wrapped in a photoshopped picture of a cake.
What Andrew seems too immature to understand is that we live in a "What have you done for me lately?" world. You're only as good as your last dunk or your last blocked shot. The rap on Andrew has long been that his work habits fall short of the bar and there's good reason for that.
There's considerable evidence that AB17 is going to be only an imitation of Shaq, trying to get by with size and skillz, but lacking the self-discipline to be all he can be. The NBA scrap heap is littered with jerseys of players who had enormous potential, but whose character deficiencies sabotaged their pathway to success.
Great players like Kobe and LBJ combine the ideal of great ability and great work ethic. The next tier includes players like Steve Nash (and potentially Jordan Farmar) who lack the natural gifts but give 250% at every opportunity. So far, Andrew Bynum exhibits only signs of being on a lower tier of players like Lamar Odom who could be great, but never get it together to fulfill their promise.
The Lakers have already invested a lot in AB17, including blessing him with the tutelage and inspiration of Kareem. Jerry and Mitch seem willing to bet the house, the ranch, and the dog on him. But at the moment, it is still a gamble. As Laker fans, we all want AB17 to succeed. Some of us are still waiting for Andrew to convince us that he will. The ball is in his court. Go Lakers!
Posted by: Rick Friedman | October 18, 2008 at 07:51 AM
blitz,
you wrote: Which kinda makes it odd as to why Joe Crawford a rookie has an edge over Coby Karl. Granted Coby isn't probably as athletic as Joe Crawford is but not only does Coby have more experience but he is a true shooter and while Crawford is a solid shooter as well, he never got more then 36% during his years in Kentucky. Crawford should be sent to D-League and if he really has done well there, then there is no reason to have him over Coby Karl.
my response: Perhaps Crawford plays better defense
and "athleticism" counts?
Posted by: hobbitmage | October 18, 2008 at 08:05 AM
I thought Cristiano Ronaldo was the best player on the planet, especially after the EURO Cup.
I guess I can be wrong about almost everything.
Posted by: Caliphilosopher | October 18, 2008 at 08:12 AM
BK,
Soccer is a beautiful, amazing sport, but, if you haven't played it, it's pretty hard to get excited about it. It seems like "pass the ball" "pass the ball" and little more than that.
GO LAKERS!
Posted by: Jon K. | October 18, 2008 at 08:38 AM
Laker Tom,
Dude, you are one of my favorite bloggers. I love your optimism and your prolific writings, however....
You are starting to drive me nuts.
Your pro-Bynum rants are approaching levels of Michael Teniente's pro-Kwame obsession.
At times your favoritism of Andrew Bynum ("our savior") exceeds your support of the Lakers itself. You seem to WANT to pay Andrew Bynum (who has yet to prove himself over a full season) more than he's worth, thus crippling the financial flexibility of the organization.
I love Andrew Bynum and I HOPE ("hope" because he has not proved himself yet) he's the next Kareem Abdul-Jabaar, but until he proves he can be healthy, driven, and perform on a Kareem-like level let's not bankrupt the organization on HOPE.
Dude, have you lost all bearings? Yes, let's sign Andrew Bynum, but if we can sign him for a 5 year, $25 million contract lets do it! All this screaming about max or near max contracts makes me fear you've lost your mind. Don't you care about the rest of the Lakers and health of the organization as a whole?
And don't even get me started on the already over-paid Sun Yue!
Listen, my family name is from Croatia, but you don't see me froathing at the mouth about Sasha and Rad Vlad because they're from neighboring Slovenia and Serbia. Just because Sun Yue is Chinese is no reason to define him as the anointed one. Let him prove himself first. So far all he's proven is that he can get mononucleosis at the most inopportune time and thus commit himself to playing a game of "catch up" for the rest of the season.
Two words: D-League material.
URGH!
GO LAKERS!
Posted by: Jon K. | October 18, 2008 at 08:50 AM
It is impossible to define the best soccer player on the planet. There are too many positions in soccer with very different skill sets. Forwards, midfielders, fullbacks, and goalies have very different skill sets. Defining the best forward/striker? Yes. Defining the best goalie? Yes.
Best soccer player? Impossible and childish to try.
Go Galaxy!
GO LAKERS!
Posted by: Jon K. | October 18, 2008 at 08:53 AM
KNOW THY ENEMY!!!!
KNOW THY ENEMY!!!!
Enough threads about soccer and the silliness of the Spanish media. We all know the Spanish media is silly.
GO LAKERS!
Posted by: Jon K. | October 18, 2008 at 08:55 AM
"Steve "Best PG of All Time" Nash"
...is butlers go-to phrase when she feels shes not getting enough attention. Of course it's ridiculous, nash wouldn't even be the best pg in the WNBA.
Posted by: Badfinger | October 18, 2008 at 09:08 AM
Beckham might have the best foot, but is very far from being the best player. Not even in the top 20.
Posted by: exhelodrvr | October 18, 2008 at 09:43 AM
Badfinger,
In terms of soccer, Nash would kill any NBA playa on the grassy field, including kobey, who's a huge soccer fan (and sometimes playa).
Nash has everything a great soccer playa needs - incredible court vision, passing mentality, ability to drive and score on bigger playas, and the intelligence of a master physicist.
Nash's two straight MVPs means he's ascended to permanent status as PG for the all-time NBA team.
Posted by: BUTLER | October 18, 2008 at 09:49 AM
Rick,
I like your summary of the Bynum situation. I've been thinking about Lee's assertion of the one-sided loyalty in favor of Bynum. What has he done to showloyalty other than do his job and rehab his knee? I'm glad and grateful for those things, but they don't constituteoverwhelming loyalty. On the other hand, the Lakers have provided AB with the best basketball tutoring/mentoring imaginable in his personal coach- Kareem, his team coach- PJ, and a team leader- Kobe. AB, if you're reading, don't let this Lee character get you off track. Stay humble and hard-working, and appreciate what you've got in the Lakers!
Posted by: Laker Kev | October 18, 2008 at 09:49 AM
Messi is the new "in" thing in soccer. Has a lot to do with how he played in the olympics. Simply marvelous.
But for my money, I'll still go with Ronaldinho. Even though he and the Brazilian team cannot win gold lol.
Posted by: Faith | October 18, 2008 at 10:07 AM
Hobbit,
If athleticism counted we would have tried to keep Smush over Derek right? (Derek isn't all that athletic). Plus if athleticism did count we would have kept Maurice Evans and should have traded Sasha instead. (Plus Evans was/is a better defender than Sasha is).
And neither Crawford or Coby are great defenders. Coby isn't athletic for a true defender and Crawford is way too small for defending shooting guards (and he's no point guard neither, his ball handling skills were not as rated highly).
If I had to say why Crawford has an edge, it would be that he had more basketball skills. But Coby should have an edge with more experience in both the NBA and the D-League plus with being known as a shooter like Sasha.
Seems like the Lakers want a shooting guard of the future to not have Sasha's skills (a shooter type guard) and instead have one that is the penetrating type as a backup guard.
-blitz
Posted by: thekobeblitz | October 18, 2008 at 10:41 AM
"Your pro-Bynum rants are approaching levels of Michael Teniente's pro-Kwame obsession."
Exactly Laker Tom, just like what Jon K said.
You are a great blogger but making the Lakers pay Bynum when HE HASN'T DONE ANYTHING to make him get paid Super star money is plainly absurd. How many games have Drew been dominant last season, 5 out of 35 games? He HASN'T DONE ANYTHING MORE TO BE A SUPERSTAR yet. Yet you compare the bloggers who have disagreed with you to Animal Farm. Please don't be like that, it's almost as bad as Mike T was in his support of Kwa-may Brown to be the next Charles Oakley and even the next Ben Wallace and Kwa-may Brown not only is not the starter in Detroit but also hasn't played as much minutes as the other big men.
Just let Drew prove it THIS SEASON instead of the Lakers finding themselves of doing a gamble of over paying a good but not super star center with super star money.
Jon K,
Sun Yue is NOT over paid. His contract is $442,114 for two years the same kind of money that CJ Giles and Brandon Heath would make if they made the team. Please get facts straight.
-blitz
Posted by: thekobeblitz | October 18, 2008 at 11:01 AM
Fatty - thanks for posting the links about Kenny George. Sad story indeed and one that unfortunatey we'll see more of. Resistant infections are getting pretty scary out there.
Posted by: dave m | October 18, 2008 at 11:01 AM
Butler,
C'mon you american silly men - watch the great Messi!
The truth is, kobey couldn't match Messi as an athlete. The imagination and domination Messi exhibits is matched by only one playa in the NBA:
Steve "Best PG of All Time" Nash
Man, i just threw up on my keyboard!
Hillarious!!!!
Posted by: JP | October 18, 2008 at 11:06 AM
LakerTom,
I don't think anyone has said Drew WON'T get a big deal this fall, most of us have said that he doesn't deserve it and there is no pressure on the Lakers to do other than the pressure they put on themselves. The Lakers have all the leverage if they want it.
As for Andrew Bogut, just because one team with bad management, limited playoff hopes and no other legitimate big men grossly overpaid him doesn't mean we should. And the other thing is Bogut put up similar numbers to Drew last season, didn't miss most of the season and all of the playoffs and while his team didn't make the playoffs with him they also didn't make it to the Finals without him as the Lakers did.
It's foolish for the Lakers to give Drew a $78 million at this point when you can easily give him that much or more next summer and it makes no financial sense for Drew to accept a QO.
Posted by: Xodus | October 18, 2008 at 11:08 AM
Rick-
I think we generally agree- no need to sign Bynum until he shows he's all the way back. It's a lot of money, and a lot of years, and the Lakers have all the leverage. It's just basketball business- nothing out of the ordinary, nothing that won't get resolved...
...but do you really think Steve Nash lacks natural gifts? He seems almost supernaturally gifted to me.
BK
Posted by: Brian Kamenetzky | October 18, 2008 at 11:13 AM
Jon K,
Good post on Drew. This is about the LAKERS, not Bynum.
Posted by: Xodus | October 18, 2008 at 11:13 AM
LakerTom,
And I love your optimism, but insulting bloggers who happen to disagree with your unfactual view that the Lakers don't have leverage and MUST sign him to a near-max deal is beneath you.
Posted by: Xodus | October 18, 2008 at 11:17 AM
The Lakersblog owns Butler!!
When FACTS get thrown back in his face, he thinks the MOST UNDESERVING MVP, THE ONLY 2 TIME MVP NEVER (eva eva, EVA EVA) to go the FINALS means anything!!!
HA! MVP means nothing without a FINAL APPEARANCE. TWO MVPs? AN EVEN WORSE FAILURE, DO NOT PASS GO.
Mark my words, NO ONE will remember STEVE TRASH as anything but a FAILURE. People will hate Kobe, Shaq, etc, but the fact that Steve Nosh never got past the WCF is the ultimate failure. Too selfish that he had to leave DALLAS because he wanted to try and win it on his own. How SELFISH AND SELF CENTERED! Notice how DALLAS discarded him and WENT TO THE FINALS. See what being the most SELFISH point guard ever gets you?
SHAQ DOESN'T LIKE STEVE GNOSH, AMARE, OR RAWBEEN LOPEZ. Selfish, conceited players. Who calls themselves "BLACK JESUS?" How offensive.
He loves the Lakers. He wants to play with KOBEEE and went to ESPN because he wanted everyone from the entire COUNTY of Arizona to know it. That's like your girl saying her ex has got a bigger one that yours, and putting a neon sign out on your house saying that you've got a tiny, unsatifyiing wee. A wee that doesn't play any defense, haha.
The GUY THAT GOT DUNKED ON BY KOBEEEEE (great defense) will go down as the ULTIMATE FAILURE.....if we remember him.
STEVEEEEE "NO FINALS, BUT I'M GREAT AT SOCCER" GNOSH.
Have fun not responding, I'll take that as complete and utter agreement with every sentiment, especially this one:
BUTLER<---------------------owned by the Lakers, the Lakersblog, and by his own multi-poster, CHICKEN LITTLE.
Posted by: Chicken Little | October 18, 2008 at 11:21 AM
Props to Kiwi, Rick F and Jon K. All great posts. I guess we've been eating our wheaties lol.
I think Nash's "gifts" are learned. Not necessarily intrinsic. Why else would he have been so under the radar for so long? Early in his career he was pretty much a nobody.
Posted by: Faith | October 18, 2008 at 11:29 AM
"In terms of soccer, Nash would kill any NBA playa on the grassy field, including kobey, who's a huge soccer fan (and sometimes playa)."
WHO CARES?? SOCCER?? Seriously.
"Nash's two straight MVPs means he's ascended to permanent status as PG for the all-time NBA team."
WNBA, you mean.
Posted by: Badfinger | October 18, 2008 at 11:31 AM
Centers have to be the highest risk reward investment in the game; teenage, inexperienced, injury prone centers, more so. Still, when they drafted a 17 year old, negotiating before they could be certain was inevitable.
Many questioned Andrew's drive but Andrew's pelvic analysis isn't an observation I'd want to bet the financial health of a franchise on and he can't ask for patience when he's cashin' the big check.
Kareem is the poster boy for a good investment at center. Even at Andrew's age, the most vulnerability he'd shown was a poke in the eye.
Play for time.
Posted by: Vman | October 18, 2008 at 11:39 AM
BK,
>>> ...but do you really think Steve Nash lacks natural gifts?
Physique wise, he's almost identical to Farmar -- just an inch taller. Both are slightly undersized, but make up for it in effort. Nash is obviously much further along in his development and experience, while Jordan remains a work-in-progress. Nash is clearly gifted in his abilities, but still delivers more on the floor than one might expect. My point was that AB17 has all the desired physical attributes, but has yet to make good on the promise.
Posted by: Rick Friedman | October 18, 2008 at 11:48 AM
>>>Just look at the size of contracts that front court
>>>players like Andrew Bogut got from a franchise that
>>>has nowhere near the revenues or value of the
>>>Lakers’ franchise.
Market value is market value. If no other team had been willing
to pay Andrew Bogut that much, then the Bucks would have
offered him less. Because of the CBA, teams know that if they
want quality players they have to pay the salary, regardless
of the value of the team.
Bogut played 78 games last season. Bynum played 35.
Bogut's stats were comparable to Bynum's. At his best
Bynum showed a bit more promise than Bogut, but Bynum
has had knee problems twice in the last 5 years.
Bynum has more upside than Bogut, but also more risk than Bogut.
And since you chose him as an example, Bogut's deal is
for 60 million guaranteed, with another 12 million in incentives.
With what he's shown so far in the preseason, I'd feel only
mildly ill-at-ease offering Bynum that much.
Someone in an earlier post compared Bynum to Kwame, and
I think that's completely false. Kwame was an absolute bust,
and when he was playing last season, Drew has already proven
to be better than him.
But forget about yourself as a person who's only interest in
the subject is for Lakers to win titles for just a second. Yes,
it is the desire of the Bussboys (and girls) to win NBA titles.
But it's also their desire to have a profitable business. If you give
out a max contract, you want to feel pretty damn sure that you're
actually going to get someone who plays and plays WELL for that
money.
If they give max $ to Bynum and then he never reaches a level
higher than Sam Dalembert or Bogut, then you've wasted money,
though if you win championships, you accept the loss. But
consider something the Lakers just went through... Brian Grant's
contract. If they pony up a max deal to Bynum and he goes
Brian Grant on them, then they get NOTHING out of him AND
they'd be
paying huge mounds of luxury tax dollars for the privelege of
getting nothing out of him.
Thus, if Bynum wants anywhere NEAR a max contract, it
isn't coming until next summer. If he gets a deal now, it
will be closer to Bogut's, with a big chunk of it coming through
incentives.
Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | October 18, 2008 at 11:50 AM
Butler, you are getting completely owned by the Lakersblog, especially Chicken Little.
Please answer him why Steve Nash can't get to the Finals and why he was selfish enough to leave his bestest friend in the world, only to have the team he left get to the Finals? He didn't even get there as second fiddle like KobEE did.
Is not getting to Finals a mark of greatness? If so Steve Nash is the best like you said!
STEVE "No Finals, but I'm a 2 time MVP" NASH!
Posted by: SNORT OINK | October 18, 2008 at 11:54 AM
spunsilk_coach
>>>Anyone heard about the game that is scheduled for
>>> Sunday-- especially Who the Lakers are playing?
It's like a tournament. Clippers play Toronto & Lakers play Barcelona
today, and then the winners play the winners & the losers play
the losers.
So it's either Clippers or Toronto.
Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | October 18, 2008 at 11:57 AM
>>>Which kinda makes it odd as to why Joe Crawford a
>>>rookie has an edge over Coby Karl.
The main difference between Joe Crawford and Coby Karl
to the Lakers this season would be about half a million dollars.
Yes, Coby has more experience in the triangle, and all that, but
for someone who likely will play 5 minutes a game or less, does it
really matter that much?
Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | October 18, 2008 at 12:03 PM
Rick,
Interesting topic. I think a lot of depends on how you define "athletic" or "gifts." Clearly, Nash is not athletic in an explosive sense. I'm not sure I've ever even seen him dunk, much less play a game above the rim. He's also never been the physically strongest NBA player out there. But he's very quick and his eye/hand is through the roof. Nash is also extremely agile. His pure physical coordination is as good or better than anyone out there. That's all part of athletic ability.
I agree with you that he may have to push himself to get the most of out himself to hang with some of the ridiculously good athletes in the NBA, especially at his age. He's known for having one of the league's best work ethics, anyway. But in terms of natural athleticism, his is pretty high. It's just a different type than the Josh Smith variety.
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | October 18, 2008 at 12:05 PM
Rick-
I agree that Nash makes up for some things with effort (like all true dominant superstars, he works his ass off), but he also has hand eye coordination light years ahead of most athletes, Add in a sense of spacial awareness and body control that can't be learned, and it's pretty amazing. But I understand what you're getting at. I just think generally (not necessarily with you) people tend to discount athletic gifts that don't center around jumping.
I think JF has a LONG way to go before he reaches Nashian levels, and i don't know if he has the innate skills that Nash has. That doesn't mean JF can't be a very good player, just that I don't think he'll ever reach that level-- it would be great for the Lakers if I was wrong, though, don't you think?
But yeah, Bynum, for all his talent, hasn't shown the ability to play long stretches of high level NBA basketball. He's still, in many ways, a very large body of potential. I think he'll be fine, both sides will find a number that works, and that AB will get paid from a team happy to do it. This is just part of negotiations- the Lakers have the leverage, and no reason to give it up right now. We're not talking about money left under the couch cushions, you know?
BK
Posted by: Brian Kamenetzky | October 18, 2008 at 12:11 PM
Wow.
I seem to remember an greater point guard than Steve Nash. Let's see - he played for, what was that team? Oh that's right, THE LAKERS. Magic Johnson was his name. The best no look passer ever. A Laker. A Champion. Yes, a champion who even beat the Celtics. ON THEIR OWN FLOOR.
Nash is pretty good, but his lifetime achievements on court will never even come close to Magic's.
So to whomever thinks that Nash is the greatest, let them. Somewhere out there is a troll with a lot of time on their hands spouting nonsense. We know the truth. We all watched it happen. Game after game of those pretty passes, one night when a beautiful baby hook captured our attention, and the ability to rally his team and play with some of the greatest ever.
Magic Johnson, certainly one of the greatest point guards ever.
Nash just doesn't stack up.
Posted by: longtimelakerlover | October 18, 2008 at 12:15 PM