The recipe to beat LA?
Interesting post from Kevin Arnovitz over at Clipper Blog, in which he discusses the virtues of the triangle and one way for the Clippers to go after the Lakers tonight:
The principle brilliance of the Triangle Offense lies in the number of potential options it produces for its practitioners. Every momentary stand by the defense triggers several different offensive counters, which is why it’s so difficult to defend. It’s like Whack-a-Mole as basketball. And it’s particularly tough now that the Lakers are fielding a guy at each position who can execute each of those options. Every notable player on the Lakers’ roster can pass the ball, put it on the floor, shoot it from some reasonable distance – Bynum notwithstanding -- and every guy has the wherewithal to know where he’s most useful on the floor at any given moment. Sure, Vladimir Radmanovic has the occasional outage – and his moments are always brilliantly spectacular in their visual absurdity – but he generally understands space. Everyone else is fluent.
So how do you beat them?
The best option is physical brutality. The Lakers generally appear least comfortable in their offense when their opponents are banging them around as they move from spot to spot. When that happens, they settle for contested jumpers.
Defensively, they’re long, but not great physical defenders – particularly in the post. Both Baron Davis and Cuttino Mobley understand how to apply physicality as a defensive tactic against a team like the Lakers. Kaman has really improved in this capacity. His first couple of years out of Central Michigan, Chris would still occasionally get a little intimidated in the paint. Now, he takes getting beat on the block much more personally, which you can see in his defense. The others are variable. In this regard, slotting Brian Skinner in for Marcus Camby could make a lot of sense. It compromises the Clippers offensively and potentially creates trouble for Kaman, but it would allow the Clips to establish themselves physically against one of the better finesse teams in recent memory.
While I don't think the Lakers are so namby-pamby as some commentators (don't get me started on the "soft" thing again), it's an interesting take on how less talented teams can and probably will look to attack the Lakers. While some will try to outrun/out-athlete, many will try to beat the crap out of the purple and gold, to slow down the offense and try to make them back off defensively.
We'll see how it plays out, tonight and down the road.
Programming Note: We'll be trying the new live blog software tonight, the same we used during the baseball playoffs. Keep in mind that comments must still be screened and all the rules of decorum apply. But while the text portion of the live blog (our running commentary) becomes a little tougher to read, it should make it easier for you guys to talk with each other and participate without refreshing.
We'll see how it goes. Comments on the issue are welcome. Thanks.
BK
I guess we will have to see huh?
Posted by: Charles | October 29, 2008 at 04:05 PM
Bring 'em on...!!!
Posted by: keifo | October 29, 2008 at 04:29 PM
There's gonna be little Clippers bouncing off Bynum like some sort of basketball lemmings.
Posted by: Mayor of Kobe-Town | October 29, 2008 at 04:29 PM
The Lakers will have to greatly improve their defense to have any chance of winning the NBA title this season.WhAT a sham and a fake and most of these Laker Bloggers belive in this fantasy.HAHAHAAHHAHAAH.
This is a soft team to the core and built around the most selfish player in the NBA -- Kobe. And one of their other stars, Odom, is a total head case who is undependable. (Remember last year's Finals? It's too foolish to believe he's suddenly transformed.)
And are Sasha, Gasol and Radmanovic still on the team? These guys are going to be the core of a defensive team? Please........ They couldn't stop Phil driving to the basket on his creaky hips and legs, much less Ray Allen.
It was a lucky win last night by the Lakers -- but let's be careful with making too much out of it.
Unless, of course, you like getting to the Finals and getting your butts kicked by the Boston Celtics.
Posted by: Greg | October 29, 2008 at 04:33 PM
funny, i was just thinking the same thing (how to beat the lakers) on a smoke break at work.
you know what came to mind?
".............uhh.... get them in foul trouble?.. nah that won't work...uhhhh"
"hmmmm................."
actually nothing came to mind.
i seriously do not see how this team is going to get beat
NEXT UP IS THE CLIPPERS
TOTAL DOMINATION
GO LAKERS
Posted by: DEREK | October 29, 2008 at 04:37 PM
I was thinking, how does this guy get 'sentenced' to be the Clippers moderator.
What a tough job.
Posted by: Fatty | October 29, 2008 at 04:46 PM
I've never been so excited to see Lakers zone D in action. Will it be 1-2-2 zone? Or 1-4 on B-Diddy? Or a 3-2 with the Swat Team patrolling down low? I've always loved 2-3 myself.
Posted by: miker | October 29, 2008 at 05:14 PM
The best way to diffuse the triangle is freeze the ball in any one spot long enough to disrupt the timing of everyone making their cuts. Then, all the passing options are gone and things get real predictable - the player with the ball tries to take their defender one on one. We've seen the Lakers do it to themselves a bunch of times... recently, it's usually been when someone like Mbenga gets their hands on the ball.
Also, anyone who watches the triangle as much as we do should be able to predict where the next passes are going. The Lakers are prone to getting lazy with those passes (especially early on in the half-court set). It's not really whack-a-mole if you can steer the Lakers where you want them to go based on how you defend.
Regarding tonight, I like B-Diddy's spirit, think Kaman is a solid big man and Thornton is a great young talent but don't really give them much of a shot against the Lakers IF the Lakers come out focused - that seems to be the key for them against 90% of the opposition out there.
Posted by: lakers_sth | October 29, 2008 at 05:35 PM
Kevin Arnovitz wrote a nice piece.
I think he's right and a lot of teams will try to play the Lakers very physically. This causes some concerns for me:
1. The Lakers may have to up their toughness to deal with this trend and that might diminish some of the fluidity of their offensive production.
2. Playing physical game after physical game, the Lakers might become succeptible to injury... which is not good.
Go Clippers!
GO LAKERS!
Posted by: Jon K. | October 29, 2008 at 06:11 PM
it was a long winter (summer for you in the north) but finally we can start to erase the memories of game 6.
Last night was a solid presentation, but it´s just one step, we need to play 81 regular season games with the same intensity and take it to the next level for 16 playoffs game. Its stll earlier but I realli loved what I saw yesterday.
Hope to beat the clpis tonight
los lakers campeones!
Posted by: DC | October 29, 2008 at 06:30 PM
T minus 1 hour and counting!!!!!!
Win # 2 coming up!
Lakers opening night part deux - because we all know there's only 1 b-ball team in LA (sorry Jon K.....) lol!
GO LAKERS!
Posted by: justanothermambafan | October 29, 2008 at 06:34 PM
Jon K
I think teams going after us now will only refine us and make us tougher for the playoffs.
Iron sharpens iron.....
Posted by: Fatty | October 29, 2008 at 06:45 PM
Lakers looked great in the fast strart and I really enjoyed that an old dog can learn new tricks.
I see for the most part PJ dropped the triangle for more running. The triangle can be used against fast teams that keep up with us in transition then we can go to the triangle.
PJ stated he was going to start from the beggining of the season to run and be ready for hard work. Should have done that since he was last signed. But at least he is doing now what he should have done before.
I hope the mind games are over too.
Posted by: JustaLakerFan | October 29, 2008 at 06:46 PM
DC
I share your thoughts. Where are you from? Mcmurdo station, Antarctica?
Posted by: Fatty | October 29, 2008 at 06:47 PM
"Can you prove you won't have an auto accident? Can you prove you won't get the flu and miss some work? Can you PROVE anything that is out of your control?"
Of course you can't be certain of anything, but that doesn't mean you throw a maximum deal at a guy who hasn't even started 82 games in his CAREER. He has 78 career starts over the past two seasons, missed more than half of last season and the playoffs how is this the resume of a maximum salary player? Seriously. Your whole argument is based on well ANYONE could get hurt so we might as well throw the maximum salary at Bynum.
The fact is Bynum has had two serious knee injuries and hasn't put together one complete season as a starter. It's clear that the Lakers see this and this is why David Lee is complaining about not getting a maximum offer yet. The fact is the Lakers are saying the same thing people like me, Blitz, Eric M, AK and BK, etc are saying. If you want a maximum deal with guaranteed money wait until next summer. Right now they've offered him a 5-year, 55-million dollar deal with incentives that bump it up to 78-million. If Bynum wants his big deal right now he's going to have to take the deal with incentives. That much has been made clear.
Posted by: Xodus | October 26, 2008 at 04:50 PM
============================
Xodus,
To put the debate in perspective as I assume my perspective you are not a NBA player, say now your pay depends on having to prove you won't get sick to get a max contract.
Now in non NBA world a huge pay raise for promotion hinged on you proving you can prove you won't get sick etc. Would you think that would be a fair stance for your employer to take?
Now assume your co-workers agreed with your management does that make it fair too? (That is analogy to bloggers in cased you missed that.)
So what would you expect in regards to being dealt with fairly? Be honest.
Would you want to be paid for your merits and ability or not? Assume you feel extremely confident you are capable and able to do so. What would you do?
Posted by: JustaLakerFan | October 26, 2008 at 06:46 PM
===============================
Xodus I will reply to your posts and show you the errors of your ways.
But first you never responded to the question
WHAT would you do? Would you be insulted being dealt with that way? Come on now fess up.
Posted by: JustaLakerFan | October 29, 2008 at 06:49 PM
You have to feel for the guy - being moderator of the Clippers Blog must make for a lonely existence.
Aside from playing physical defense, I think the zone is probably the most effective way to slow down the triangle offense. I recall that Tex once referred to the triangle as a zone-buster, but I don't see it. It seems that the Lakers struggle against the zone.
Posted by: EJK | October 29, 2008 at 06:50 PM
I'll be lookin.
Posted by: Faith | October 29, 2008 at 06:54 PM
Blitz, LTLF, Edwin
Though I find it difficult to win a debate with yuze, my learned fellow bloggers
My point is exactly what Kevin Arnovitz was noting....
""""The best option is physical brutality. The Lakers generally appear least comfortable in their offense when their opponents are banging them around as they move from spot to spot. When that happens, they settle for contested jumpers.""""
All teams at some time or another use a trapping defense, some more than others. It's the real physical teams that can disrupt what I like to call a "finesse offense" that is the Triangle.
There is no way that they can match Boston's defense, it's not in their DNA. However, the addition of Bynum does help clog the middle and with a much better bench plus AB on the offensive end, the Lakers conceivably could have enough tools to win a series against Boston.
That being said, if the Lakers and Celtics make it to the Finals again, it would no doubt be a true classic, unlike the big let-down of last year.
Upon reflection these many months, It is a credit to the team and its coaches that it even made it to the Finals. I still think the coaching staff lacked any imagination in the Finals.
Posted by: You Ever Notice | October 29, 2008 at 07:17 PM
JustaLakerFan,
I wouldn't be insulted because I would be smart enough to realize that I've accomplished nothing as player. Sure I would want the deal(who wouldn't), but the only reason anyone is talking about me getting a maximum deal is because my agent is nuts.
Posted by: Xodus | October 29, 2008 at 07:31 PM
You ever notice,
Haha, they used a trapping defense on You Ever Notice with three plus one Fatty. I think you may have the point as well. If team pass the ball around quick then trapping defense may not work. Unfortunately, Clippers has only one good Davis, the other one is a ball hog and the other is a bench warmer so Baron Davis is all alone while he is being trapped.
Posted by: Edwin Gueco | October 29, 2008 at 10:43 PM
what do you have to say now greg?
that's right..;... nothing.....
unless you wanna make an ass of yourself again and proclaim this victory as lucky...
that's right.... shut up....
Posted by: Greg's Daddy | October 29, 2008 at 10:53 PM
Why is Bill Plasche now a pro-Laker? He dissed Kobe & the Lakers during the dark days. Oh I know, he's the fair weather writer who wants to take place the shoes of the late Mr. Jim Murray. This is like asking Joel Myers taking the place of late Chique-baby. No way, these are the Johnny-come-lately fooling local sports fans acting as pretenders, not contenders.
Posted by: Edwin Gueco | October 29, 2008 at 10:54 PM
Justa,
"To put the debate in perspective as I assume my perspective you are not a NBA player, say now your pay depends on having to prove you won't get sick to get a max contract. "
Typically, you are only giving half the details. A more accurate analogy would be that you were fairly new to your job, and on occasion showed signs that you were going to be a superb employee. However, you were not in the office because of health issues for 4 months last year. On those days that you missed, your co-workers had to cover for you, but they did such a good job of that, that (without you) the company had the highest profits they had had for six years.
Would you be insulted if, based on your potential, the company offered you a contract at triple your current salary, with potential performance-based bonuses that would add another 40% if you reached them all?
Posted by: exhelodrvr | October 30, 2008 at 07:36 AM