MAKE THAT VON WAFER ON THE ROCKETS LAKE SHOW

{REPOST}

mrbarneydangles,

I have been to Cavarette's. It's great. That stretch on Sherman Way used to be my haunt when I lived in Woodland Hills. Good Indian, Chinese, and Italian food, Scottish and English beers on tap, fantastic Jazz played by wonderful musicians, upcoming bands and poetry readings and a pool hall all within forty yards of sidewalk.

It is the Valley and it is a bit gritty, but it has a certain charm to it because of that. I've watched a lot of Lakers games at Scotland Yard and listened to a lot of Jazz two doors down.

Man, I miss Los Angeles.

GO LAKERS!

>>>Drew doesn't seem to be the monster that he was last
>>>year in the paint.

He'll get back to that level. It's just that the guy hasn't played
at this level since January. It takes a few weeks to shake off
the rust and get the timing back.

I was bummed that the only alley-oop to Bynum got called back,
as Bobby Brown was fouling Farmar as he was making the pass
to Drew.

“It’s preseason, man,” Bryant said. “Who the hell cares? Everyone knows Lamar will be there. Nobody’s tripping.” Las Vegas Sun
- Kobe, when asked about Lamar Odom

"Nobody's tripping"
- Obviously Kobe has not been reading the Lakers blog

Good morning Mamba24 and crew!

NBA to lay off 80.

Facing a possible financial crisis, Stern decided to lay off 9% of his NBA staff.

What Stern really meant to say -

"Faced with budget constraints, I felt it necessary to take this step. It was either I take a 10% pay cut or I send 80 people out to drown in a weak economy. That decision was easy."

Hey Jon K,

You're in Cleveland right? Yea, I would miss L.A too. I'm out here in Cleveland for two weeks and I'm bored already!

Barcelona to play the Lakers on Saturday.

Asked if Barcelona had a chance to win against the Lakers. HugoSpain replied about his beloved team.

"If its futbol, sure we have chance. Yes, of course we can win. Oh basketball? Your kidding, right?! We are playing the Lakers? The Los Angeles Lakers?! I don't think we could beat the Lakers Girls, let alone the Lakers."

"If they spot us 20 points, the Lakers Girls that is, then we might be able to win."
- HugoSpain

I'm glad to hear that Lamar is cool with coming off the bench.

I'm glad that Phil Jackson is our coach and he knows that Lamar in the starting lineup with this team wouldn't be the best situation for winning.

I'm glad that even without Lamar in the starting line-up, the Lakers still have the best starting 5 in the NBA.

I'm glad that with Lamar coming off the bench, the Lakers will have the best bench in the NBA.

I'm glad that Lamar will have the opportunity to gain recognition as the NBA's top 6th man.

I'm glad that Lamar is the ultimate team player.

Go Lakers!

zen sez:

"Your hilarious! Lopez will not be a factor. At best, he will be an average NBA talent. If you're lucky."

Tell that to nene, K-Mart and the other nug bigs who had their shots blocked by RL. In emphatic fashion.

And, he's got two good knees.

thekobebryantblitz,

"wonder why though people are saying Jordan should have like 29 minutes while Derek only limited to 20".

Since I said this yesterday, I thought I'd explain my thinking. For the record, I love DFish.

Derek is older, and I think he would benefit from "Easy" minutes during the year, and be rested for the playoffs.

Farmar is an up-and-comer with young legs who "Needs" minutes to continue to develop. The more he plays, the better he'll be come playoffs.

One benefits from light minutes, one benefits from more minutes.

Just my opinion.

The 5 top finalist for the Laker 2008 Pulitzer prize and most popular blogger.These writers extricated brilliant exposes and highly insightful posts.The winner will be named later in the week.

: Rick Friedman
Jon K.
Mamba 24
Faith
Laker Tom

mrbarneydangles,

I think I will try to get tickets for the Lakers-Cavs game.

zen,

Cleveland is a decent place to live if you're a family man with a good job. The cost of living here is very low. You can literally get a nice four-bedroom home on an acre of land on a lake and near a golf course in a very high-end suburb like Hudson (which is where I'm at) for around $300,000. People get know each other and generally say "Hello" to each other when they pass in supermarkets and such. Some things here are nice. And if you're in a nice suburb, it's a bit easier to keep your kids from "growing up too fast" than it would be in a Los Angeles suburb, which is nice.

Unfortunately, I'm a single man who telecommutes and likes excitement and beautiful women. If you're looking for excitement and beautiful women, Cleveland is not the place for you. (Also when I last checked their basketball team isn't the Lakers, which is kind of a big deal for some people.) So, for me, I can't wait to get back to California, but if you want to be able to buy a nice house for your family in a nice quaint area and quickly build equity in that house, then the Cleveland area, well it might be the right place for some.

The King,

My vote's for Mamba24.

GO LAKERS!

JLF sayez:

[Hint PJ wasn’t coaching cuz he got his arse fired. We in LA hire coaches to win championships and not just make playoffs. PJ has been a big loser in that department in recent history. Maybe you expect less in Colorado. So then you made my point for me. Yes without those players those other coaches probably don’t win championships either. But at least they coached. And Byron Scott made the playoffs with lesser talent and not as deep teams, something PJ cannot do. That is by your lost logic].

Nope PJ wasn't coaching because Jerry Krause refused to renew his contract because Krause was jealous of Jordan and Jackson. Pippen left the Bulls also because he didn't want to be with Jerry. Phil was not fired, get your facts straight. The same thing was true during PJ's first tenure. Buss wanted to go back to Showtime Lakers and have Kobe lead the way. Unfortunately not only were the pieces not right for Showtime (Chris Mihm as center??) but the team achieved a 32-50 record. If you think that is ok as long as Phil Jackson is gone, then all power to you, lets get to rebuilding like the Knicks or the Heat plus wasting Kobe Bryant's prime years even more. And make championships and not make playoffs? You really are making me laugh if you want to glorify Byron Scott how many championships does he have?? Nada, Zero, Zip according to your term. Byron Scott made it to the Finals only twice and he lost in a sweep by the Lakers and then the next year by the Spurs and Byron Scott using less talent? Let's see:

2000-2001 NJN under Byron Scott: 26-56 record.
The next year the Nets get Jason Kidd and makes the Finals. In 2003-2004 Byron Scott gets FIRED after 42 games.

2004-2005: Scott arrives in New Orleans and gets a sub par 18-64 season. Next year they draft CP3 but for the next two seasons don't even make the playoffs. In 2007-2008 the Hornets makes the playoffs and eliminates the Mavericks but lose in Game 7 to the Spurs despite being at home and blowing them out in 3 of the 7 games. Some winner huh?

Also I forgot to mention: Phil HAS won a championship. In the CBA without no MJ or Kobe or Shaq he won the CBA in his first season. Now you can say "it wasn't in the NBA" but under your standards PJ has won without them.

"We in LA hire coaches to win championships"
Besides Pat Riley and Phil Jackson and I'll include Paul Westhead who after Magic was drafted won championships? Rudy T (and Rudy T has 2 championships in Houston)? Del Harris? Mike Dunleavy? Kurt Rambis? Frank Hamblen? Only Pat Riley, Phil Jackson, Paul Westhead and Bill Sharman has had Laker teams win championships (LA Teams, Minneapolis doesn't count). What about the rest of the coaches? Clearly you argued against yourself JLF. Since there has only been 4 coaches that have won championships in LA.

[Yes without those players those other coaches probably don’t win championships either. But at least they coached. And Byron Scott made the playoffs with lesser talent and not as deep teams, something PJ cannot do. That is by your lost logic. ]

If you think Kwa-may Brown, Smush Parker, Brian Cook and Lamar Odom are better than Tyson Chandler, CP3, David West, and Peja Stojakovic then don't bother to argue with me. 2006-2007 the Lakers make the playoffs yet even with the the same roster as the next years the Hornets fail to miss the playoffs despite Golden State having a losing record (40-42). And again explain WHY in 2004-2005 we miss the playoffs and yet when PJ comes back we make the playoffs with an even WORST roster than the year before (Kwa-may Brown shouldn't be compared to Caron Butler in skill)? And they coached? Man that is really very weak to try to justify your argument. You have not answered any of the questions JLF just saying this and that which in a school would be marked wrong since your answers are unrelated to what the question is.

[ I don’t have to calm down as I am calm. I am stating adamantly for you to stop trying to put words in my mouth or it will get ugly. I am not yelling, cursing, name calling but just stating a fact. It was a reply in an email to me you stated that. I found it so do your own homework. Hint try Google. Also a true Laker fan never apologizes to a Troll. How laughable sorry Butler, hahahaha. So pathetic an action ]

Cool your calm now try this: an email? I don't send emails to other bloggers and only Long Time Laker Fan I have and that was for Fantasy Draft. LOL. And you found what? The tactic of words in your mouth? Nope no record to Humanamoly that I have done so and if anything it was Hobbitmage that I debated. So once again you are WRONG. In your words: do your homework again. And while Butler is a pain, at least sometimes he does speak reasonable from time to time though he is delusional a ton. I may be not so "fanatic" as some Laker fans, at least it doesn't cloud my judgment and say irrational things like "The Lakers won in spite of PJ' when the Lakers without PJ in 2004-2005 MISSED THE PLAYOFFS. Hey cmon, even Jon K. does defend Mike T. from time to time (and many Laker bloggers here not only dislike him but also call him a troll). So seriously do your homework because you are just posting so many inaccurate things.

[ Is that because Kobe did this by himself as he has before? Like the time he took a clipboard from Cleamons and drew up a play in PJ’s face (coached) that is what Lakers did. Remember PJ lost in the faceoff in front office to get Kobe traded. He won’t make that mistake again. He goes to FO and demands him or Kobe goes, guess who goes? Hint it ain’t Kobe. Kobe is his own motivator and works hard to improve and does not need PJ to motivate him. Give Kobe the credit not PJ. Very cool indeed.]

Again your are missing the point JLF. Withouth Phil Kobe didn't even make any teams save for 3rd teams. And yes Phil did try to have Kobe traded because Kobe many times went to split double teams and not run the offense in spite of having Shaq open (and vice versa, Shaq went inside too much instead of kicking out to Kobe). And give Kobe the credit? This one will hurt your argument more than it will hurt mine:
If you really want to give credit for Kobe then try this:

2000 Finals vs Reggie Miller: 36% FG for 14ppg
2004 Finals vs Tayshaun Prince: 38% FG for 22.6ppg

In both Game 1 and 4 Shaq had monster games yet Kobe kept firing away against Tayshaun Prince's defense (yet Kobe hit a game winner in Prince's face in 2007 FIBA). While there was other factors to the Lakers lost, Kobe kept firing for contested jumpers despite Shaq securing position in the post despite Kobe's promise to run the triangle offense in the visitor's locker room's bathroom at the Palace of Auburn Hills. Win Game 1 and 4 and the series ends back at Staples Center. Try giving credit for Kobe for that or can you?

And for another comparison to your premise that "Kobe did it on his own". Let's try seeing what awards Kobe got before Phil arrived.

Pre-Phil Jackson:
Kobe Bryant's achievements
*2 Time All-Star
1999 All NBA 3rd Team.
1997 Slam Dunk Champion

*-No All Star Game in 1999 but it's not unreasonable speculation Kobe would have been an All Star then.

Between PJ's 1st and 2nd term:
Kobe Bryant's achievements (despite having a potential All Star in Caron Butler):
2005 NBA All Star
3rd NBA All Team.

Kobe was 3rd in MVP voting in 2002-2003 (He should have won though Duncan wasn't a bad choice either), 4th in MVP in 2005-2006, 3rd in 2006-2007 and 1st in 2007-2008. All MVP votes came when he had Phil.

All other awards such All NBA Teams and All Defensive Teams, came when he was with Phil Jackson. Causation? Probably not, it's a fallacy to think that. Association? Definitely. Don't try to deny the association JLF, without Phil, Kobe as the main option hasn't done crap. I give Kobe his credit for what he has done, as to all players. Don't try to deny what Phil has done for Kobe as much as Kobe has done for Phil.

[You need to put your feet on the ground with your statements. I have stated many times why I dislike PJ ‘s methods and stated I like him as a person but not as coach. You are right you can’t object to that. However my take on the Celtics series is that Mbenga could have helped by throwing Greenie Weenies a curve. Things like that work. Just look at PP’s fake injury while the Lakers were in the game, and then that distraction changed the game and it’s outcome. As I stated we know for a FACT we know the Lakers lost NOT using Mbenga. For a FACT you or anyone else cannot say we would not have won. You can opine as such but the truth is we will never know. My opinion is that we would have won and would have likely won.]

You are entitled to your opinion and that's something I will never touch. But to say things like what you have said like "Phil got outcoached" that is not opinion. Otherwise you can count Pop getting outcoached by Phil and Pop has been the one who outcoached D'Antoni. There is no logic to that PJ got outcoached simply because he lost. And you want to compare Ira Newble and DJ Mbenga to Paul Pierce? Pierce would have owned both guys and while it is my opinion, many people would agree. And what does putting the Celtics on the curve mean? Faking injuries in Bean Town? I doubt the crowd would show much sympathy. What else maybe Flagrant Fouls? That's nice if you want the Celtics to get 2 free shots not to mention the ball back (and set their rage on the Lakers). Putting them on a curve is really vague and makes no sense. There isn't anything else that I could think of "putting on the curve". Be more specific.

The difference between what you have done and me? Simple, I've presented my opinion based on the players abilities. JLF, you've tried to set your viewpoints as facts like PJ's fault for not playing Mbenga and Newble and we lost because of it. Yes I know you said it was your opinion just NOW but you haven't done so in the past. I know that Mbenga while a good shot blocker is simply not the lock down defender as you imagine him to be. Blocking shots is one thing, allowing penetration is something else and not getting the rebound is another. Plus Mbenga and Ira doesn't have any offense. Turnovers killed the Lakers in Game 6 and you cannot argue that turnovers (getting stolen from and throwing bad passes) is helped what led to the big deficit in Game 6. The Celtics stole the ball 18 times and that led to 36 points and no team can defend if they let the other team steal the ball. That's why I've said that simply putting Mbenga and Newble does not mean we would have won, there would have been no offense against the Celtic Defense anyways. Put in Mbenga or Newble and who else will score? Sasha? Sasha shot only 42.5% in the Finals for 8 points per game and only had one good game (Game 3). Kobe? Again Kobe shot a low FG% (40.7) and shot ice cold for 4/6 games in the Finals. Lamar had tendinitis and was cold also in the Finals, Pau had only 1 great game and that stemmed from him being guarded by Perkins and guarding KG in turn (not an easy task), Jordan was ice cold until Game 5 and 6. So there would have been little offense anyways.

Again let's assume Phil put in Mbenga and Ira. Who would have they guarded? Mbenga on Perkins? That's pointless as Perkins isn't the main threat or put him on KG perhaps? Do you really honestly think Mbenga could even slow down KG plus defending the post at the same time? And what about Ira? Put him on who? Ray Ray or Pierce? If on Ray Allen, assuming he could stop Ray Ray completely, Kobe would have been forced to guard Paul Pierce which he could do but would sap his energy as he did in Game 6. Then think about the offense if Ira was playing, what would be his role? From what I know about Newble he's not even an offensive threat so there goes more double teams on Kobe, Pau, Odom, Fisher and more defense on them and would have most likely caused the other Lakers to score less. And if on Pierce, do you really honestly think Pierce would have been slowed the entire series? This guy not only torched
Trevor Ariza but also scored great on Bruce Bowen as well. Using Hobbitmage style, Newble couldn't even carry Paul Pierce's jackstrap, not to mention slow him down. Plus you still got a lack of offense as well. Kobe in the series has been the only one who could really guard Paul Pierce effectively, a healthy Trevor could of at time but he couldn't especially with him not being 100%.

And if Ira was such a great defender enough to alter the series why hasn't he been resigned or signed on by other teams? And if the same was to be said about Mbenga why did he chose to come back to the Lakers despite potentially receiving more playing time with the Heat when they needed a center better than Mark Blount? I have to say, Mbenga and Newble were little more than useful depth players and why they are not compared to TRUE defensive players who aren't All Stars like James Posey and Bruce Bowen (Bowen was never an All Star so he counts). Like I said your opinion is your own but don't try to say that we lost because we didn't put Mbenga or Ira, that is just as the same as saying we should have never traded Kwa-may Brown because he plays defense (which he can't and got lit up against KG back in Dec).

[Are you that immature or do you practice at it? Pat Riley was blessed with great players and was an innovative coach. He actually did coach and not sit on his arse and do nothing like PJ. Pat Riley introduced the use of video tape replay to show players where they should be and other coaching details like shot mechanics etc. and not just draw X’s and O’s on a clipboard. This is now used by ALL teams. PJ introduced Zen and only 1 team uses it. You give way to much credit to PJ when the players win. Please stay in the bathtub when playing with your toy submarine shooting torpedoes. I think your last torpedo went astray and hit you in the arse. You have not broken anything down except for your nervous system.]

Yawn again. You missed the point and tried to respond by saying what Pat Riley did? Now that is really laughable. In that response you haven't put one proven point that either proved me wrong or tried to support your original premise that:

["The Lakers success deals with the players success rather than coaching success."]

If you still want to go through that then give Kobe credit for Game 1 and Game 4 defeats in the 2004 NBA Finals because that is mostly related in what you wanted to say. And again, the Lakers never won another championship until Phil came and that was with a team that had Shaq, Kobe, Eddie Jones, and Glen Rice yet got swept by the Robinson-Duncan duo. If you really want to respond to this post then answer this then:

"If Laker success deals with players success then why did we miss the playoffs in 2004-2005?? (Hint: Phil Jackson wasn't coaching!). And if that is the case then the opposite would be true in that Laker failures should also be blamed more on the players instead of just the coach.So if you want to say that premise, then Kobe is more responsible for the 06 playoffs and 07 playoff defeats and the lost in the 08 Finals more than Phil being outcoached."

Answer that directly please and don't give me crap like Pat Riley bringing up Instant Replay please.

[ I see you grasp little knowledge of basketball and try to make up for it by long rambling post stating falsehoods and calling them facts. If you knew about BB you would know that coach K had these players when they were thrown together and expected to gel. He had a roster of great players with no team concept. When the 3 yr commitment was made by players they played as a team and coach K using many of the previous players and adding Kobe won the Gold Medal. How many Gold Medals has PJ coached? I know you will probably come back with how many championships have coach K won? Well not the same. College coach cannot win championship in NBA but NBA coach can win in Olympics.]

So I take all of them including Lebron were all ball hogs?? Well maybe Carmelo is a ball hog but saying Lebron doesn't have a team concept is really absurd, most analyst would laugh at that idea. Remember Coach K had to get a 3 year commitment out of them. With the exception of the 2004 Team All the other coaches didn't require "3 year commitments" and not only won but owned the competition. 1992 Dream Team were put together very quickly and blew out opponents being coached by Chuck Daly. 1996 Team did the same thing and was coached by Lenny Wilkins. 2000 team was coached by Rudy T. and while blowing out opponents barely escaped with 3 points in the final round. Larry Brown in 2004 could only get bronze. And Coach K. had far longer time to orgainze an Olympic team more than any of the 3 coaches who won the gold medal. Give Daly, Wilkins, and Rudy T. that time and they would have probably even done better. So no can't say Coach K. is better than PJ just because he won a gold medal in the Olympics. And Phil has no gold medals since he declined to coach any offers.

[I know you will probably come back with how many championships have coach K won? Well not the same. ]

Again you just went against yourself and spared me from typing so I have to say thanks. What you just said "Its not the same" basically defeats your original premise that Coach K is a better coach then Phil Jackson.

JLF, try something better and please get your facts straight. Your dislike of PJ's coaching is not helping your argument that Phil Jackson sucks as a coach. And don't try to revise Lakers history simply to strengthen your argument. And try to answer the questions instead dodging them mmmkay?

BTW I live in Westwood, CA.

-blitz

JLF sayez:
[Hint PJ wasn’t coaching cuz he got his arse fired. We in LA hire coaches to win championships and not just make playoffs. PJ has been a big loser in that department in recent history. Maybe you expect less in Colorado. So then you made my point for me. Yes without those players those other coaches probably don’t win championships either. But at least they coached. And Byron Scott made the playoffs with lesser talent and not as deep teams, something PJ cannot do. That is by your lost logic].
Nope PJ wasn't coaching because Jerry Krause refused to renew his contract because Krause was jealous of Jordan and Jackson. Pippen left the Bulls also because he didn't want to be with Jerry. Phil was not fired, get your facts straight. The same thing was true during PJ's first tenure. Buss wanted to go back to Showtime Lakers and have Kobe lead the way. Unfortunately not only were the pieces not right for Showtime (Chris Mihm as center??) but the team achieved a 32-50 record. If you think that is ok as long as Phil Jackson is gone, then all power to you, lets get to rebuilding like the Knicks or the Heat plus wasting Kobe Bryant's prime years even more. And make championships and not make playoffs? You really are making me laugh if you want to glorify Byron Scott how many championships does he have?? Nada, Zero, Zip according to your term.
{Sonny, don’t they teach anything in Colorado except have bumbling white girls try to sue superstar basketball players? Semantics sonny learn business etiquette. Not rehired because of disagreement with owner = FIRED. Getting let go because owner wants to go in different direction = FIRED. It does not matter what or who I wanted as coach but the owners obviously did not want P{J and he was FIRED. ]

Byron Scott made it to the Finals only twice and he lost in a sweep by the Lakers and then the next year by the Spurs and Byron Scott using less talent? Let's see:
2000-2001 NJN under Byron Scott: 26-56 record.
The next year the Nets get Jason Kidd and makes the Finals. In 2003-2004 Byron Scott gets FIRED after 42 games.
[ Kidd declining talent and got Byron fired and Kidd accomplished what? Nada. Byron went on to Hornets and built them into a contender with 2nd best record in WC. Kidd ended up in Dallas and what title?]
2004-2005: Scott arrives in New Orleans and gets a sub par 18-64 season. Next year they draft CP3 but for the next two seasons don't even make the playoffs. In 2007-2008 the Hornets makes the playoffs and eliminates the Mavericks but lose in Game 7 to the Spurs despite being at home and blowing them out in 3 of the 7 games. Some winner huh?
[Son again learn about basketball. Michael Jordan was not effective until his 3rd year as well as Kobe, Deron Williams etc. So he did not make playoffs with rookie. Now that is laughable. Gee did PJ make the finals with Farmar his first year, or Bynum? Some coach indeed.]
Also I forgot to mention: Phil HAS won a championship. In the CBA without no MJ or Kobe or Shaq he won the CBA in his first season. Now you can say "it wasn't in the NBA" but under your standards PJ has won without them.
[Whoa the ever dangerous and talented league the CBA. That has to clinch it for the greatest coach ever. ]
"We in LA hire coaches to win championships"
Besides Pat Riley and Phil Jackson and I'll include Paul Westhead who after Magic was drafted won championships? Rudy T (and Rudy T has 2 championships in Houston)? Del Harris? Mike Dunleavy? Kurt Rambis? Frank Hamblen? Only Pat Riley, Phil Jackson, Paul Westhead and Bill Sharman has had Laker teams win championships (LA Teams, Minneapolis doesn't count). What about the rest of the coaches? Clearly you argued against yourself JLF. Since there has only been 4 coaches that have won championships in LA.

[Don’t have to as I stated we hire coaches in expectation to win championships. That does not mean we always succeed. But when we don’t we replace the losers with winning coaches. And yes PJ has failed miserably in that department as he has brought the most credentials than the other coaches you mentioned. So yes his specific job was to bring championship home and his recent record shows he failed.]
[Yes without those players those other coaches probably don’t win championships either. But at least they coached. And Byron Scott made the playoffs with lesser talent and not as deep teams, something PJ cannot do. That is by your lost logic. ]
If you think Kwa-may Brown, Smush Parker, Brian Cook and Lamar Odom are better than Tyson Chandler, CP3, David West, and Peja Stojakovic then don't bother to argue with me. 2006-2007 the Lakers make the playoffs yet even with the the same roster as the next years the Hornets fail to miss the playoffs despite Golden State having a losing record (40-42). And again explain WHY in 2004-2005 we miss the playoffs and yet when PJ comes back we make the playoffs with an even WORST roster than the year before (Kwa-may Brown shouldn't be compared to Caron Butler in skill)? And they coached? Man that is really very weak to try to justify your argument. You have not answered any of the questions JLF just saying this and that which in a school would be marked wrong since your answers are unrelated to what the question is.
[Just as good since these players made the playoffs and went 3-1 over Suns and then lost 3 straight with PJ making no adjustments and lack of coaching. So not the best players but good enough to make playoffs.]
[ I don’t have to calm down as I am calm. I am stating adamantly for you to stop trying to put words in my mouth or it will get ugly. I am not yelling, cursing, name calling but just stating a fact. It was a reply in an email to me you stated that. I found it so do your own homework. Hint try Google. Also a true Laker fan never apologizes to a Troll. How laughable sorry Butler, hahahaha. So pathetic an action ]
Cool your calm now try this: an email? I don't send emails to other bloggers and only Long Time Laker Fan I have and that was for Fantasy Draft. LOL. And you found what? The tactic of words in your mouth? Nope no record to Humanamoly that I have done so and if anything it was Hobbitmage that I debated. So once again you are WRONG. In your words: do your homework again. And while Butler is a pain, at least sometimes he does speak reasonable from time to time though he is delusional a ton. I may be not so "fanatic" as some Laker fans, at least it doesn't cloud my judgment and say irrational things like "The Lakers won in spite of PJ' when the Lakers without PJ in 2004-2005 MISSED THE PLAYOFFS. Hey cmon, even Jon K. does defend Mike T. from time to time (and many Laker bloggers here not only dislike him but also call him a troll). So seriously do your homework because you are just posting so many inaccurate things.

[The only thing inaccurate was the name humanoly instead of hobbitmage but the rest is fact. I did my homework and proved you wrong and wantonly misinformed and lacking general basic knowledge about basketball and cohesiveness of how teams work together. And Butler is a Troll and if you find any of his comments reasonable then I rest my case on your knowledge of basketball. Fanaticism is not opining the obvious but to continue to babble in the bath tub playing with toy torpedoes. Grow up and learn some things before your expect credibility in your supposed facts.]
[ Is that because Kobe did this by himself as he has before? Like the time he took a clipboard from Cleamons and drew up a play in PJ’s face (coached) that is what Lakers did. Remember PJ lost in the faceoff in front office to get Kobe traded. He won’t make that mistake again. He goes to FO and demands him or Kobe goes, guess who goes? Hint it ain’t Kobe. Kobe is his own motivator and works hard to improve and does not need PJ to motivate him. Give Kobe the credit not PJ. Very cool indeed.]
Again your are missing the point JLF. Withouth Phil Kobe didn't even make any teams save for 3rd teams. And yes Phil did try to have Kobe traded because Kobe many times went to split double teams and not run the offense in spite of having Shaq open (and vice versa, Shaq went inside too much instead of kicking out to Kobe). And give Kobe the credit? This one will hurt your argument more than it will hurt mine:
If you really want to give credit for Kobe then try this:
2000 Finals vs Reggie Miller: 36% FG for 14ppg
2004 Finals vs Tayshaun Prince: 38% FG for 22.6ppg

[Big whoop. Does not mean PJ did this. Kobe has ALWAYS worked on his game to improve and if he had an off year does not mean PJ had anything to do with Kobes improvement. That is just your opinion and not based on any fact.]
In both Game 1 and 4 Shaq had monster games yet Kobe kept firing away against Tayshaun Prince's defense (yet Kobe hit a game winner in Prince's face in 2007 FIBA). While there was other factors to the Lakers lost, Kobe kept firing for contested jumpers despite Shaq securing position in the post despite Kobe's promise to run the triangle offense in the visitor's locker room's bathroom at the Palace of Auburn Hills. Win Game 1 and 4 and the series ends back at Staples Center. Try giving credit for Kobe for that or can you?
And for another comparison to your premise that "Kobe did it on his own". Let's try seeing what awards Kobe got before Phil arrived.
Pre-Phil Jackson:
Kobe Bryant's achievements
*2 Time All-Star
1999 All NBA 3rd Team.
1997 Slam Dunk Champion
*-No All Star Game in 1999 but it's not unreasonable speculation Kobe would have been an All Star then.
Between PJ's 1st and 2nd term:
Kobe Bryant's achievements (despite having a potential All Star in Caron Butler):
2005 NBA All Star
3rd NBA All Team.
Kobe was 3rd in MVP voting in 2002-2003 (He should have won though Duncan wasn't a bad choice either), 4th in MVP in 2005-2006, 3rd in 2006-2007 and 1st in 2007-2008. All MVP votes came when he had Phil.
All other awards such All NBA Teams and All Defensive Teams, came when he was with Phil Jackson. Causation? Probably not, it's a fallacy to think that. Association? Definitely. Don't try to deny the association JLF, without Phil, Kobe as the main option hasn't done crap. I give Kobe his credit for what he has done, as to all players. Don't try to deny what Phil has done for Kobe as much as Kobe has done for Phil.
[Again who cares what fat Shaq T. Prince or anyone else did. Did PJ coach Prince to do a good job on Kobe and should get the credit too? Kobe’s lack of acknowledgement came because of the fact you loved him or hated him. The writers etc refused to acknowledge Kobe over the years and the Colorado incident did not help. No matter what Shaq said or did he was just Shaq and no bad. Every thing Kobe said or did was under microscope and was judged to death about kobe being Kobe. So that has nothing to do with PJ or his lack of coaching have to do with Kobe getting his dues as time went on. Or did PJ influence the writers with his zen to get Kobe acknowledged. Stick to facts and don’t try to pin Kobe’s success on PJs tail.]
[You need to put your feet on the ground with your statements. I have stated many times why I dislike PJ ‘s methods and stated I like him as a person but not as coach. You are right you can’t object to that. However my take on the Celtics series is that Mbenga could have helped by throwing Greenie Weenies a curve. Things like that work. Just look at PP’s fake injury while the Lakers were in the game, and then that distraction changed the game and it’s outcome. As I stated we know for a FACT we know the Lakers lost NOT using Mbenga. For a FACT you or anyone else cannot say we would not have won. You can opine as such but the truth is we will never know. My opinion is that we would have won and would have likely won.]
You are entitled to your opinion and that's something I will never touch. But to say things like what you have said like "Phil got outcoached" that is not opinion.
[Yes it is an opinion. I never said for a fact so my statement qualifies as an opinion. Still trying to put words in my mouth I see.]
Otherwise you can count Pop getting outcoached by Phil and Pop has been the one who outcoached D'Antoni. There is no logic to that PJ got outcoached simply because he lost. And you want to compare Ira Newble and DJ Mbenga to Paul Pierce? Pierce would have owned both guys and while it is my opinion, many people would agree. And what does putting the Celtics on the curve mean? Faking injuries in Bean Town? I doubt the crowd would show much sympathy. What else maybe Flagrant Fouls? That's nice if you want the Celtics to get 2 free shots not to mention the ball back (and set their rage on the Lakers). Putting them on a curve is really vague and makes no sense. There isn't anything else that I could think of "putting on the curve". Be more specific.
The difference between what you have done and me? Simple, I've presented my opinion based on the players abilities.
[BS. You made points as if your opinions are fact.]
JLF, you've tried to set your viewpoints as facts like PJ's fault for not playing Mbenga and Newble and we lost because of it. Yes I know you said it was your opinion just NOW but you haven't done so in the past. I know that Mbenga while a good shot blocker is simply not the lock down defender as you imagine him to be.
[Again putting words in my mouth I see. Look son I never said Mbenga was a lockdown defender but he could have been useful in spurts to change complexion of the game. Yes it is PJ’s fault for not trying as his way for a FACT lost us the series. We for a fact will never kno because of PJ’s stubbornness and lack of trying to coach. Repeat of Sun series.]
Blocking shots is one thing, allowing penetration is something else and not getting the rebound is another. Plus Mbenga and Ira doesn't have any offense.
[Mbenga showed offense in end of regular season and yet as Kobe stated defense wins championships. We had offensive players so how about trying to use defense? That so hard for you to fathom?]
Turnovers killed the Lakers in Game 6 and you cannot argue that turnovers (getting stolen from and throwing bad passes) is helped what led to the big deficit in Game 6. The Celtics stole the ball 18 times and that led to 36 points and no team can defend if they let the other team steal the ball. That's why I've said that simply putting Mbenga and Newble does not mean we would have won, there would have been no offense against the Celtic Defense anyways. Put in Mbenga or Newble and who else will score? Sasha? Sasha shot only 42.5% in the Finals for 8 points per game and only had one good game (Game 3). Kobe? Again Kobe shot a low FG% (40.7) and shot ice cold for 4/6 games in the Finals. Lamar had tendinitis and was cold also in the Finals, Pau had only 1 great game and that stemmed from him being guarded by Perkins and guarding KG in turn (not an easy task), Jordan was ice cold until Game 5 and 6. So there would have been little offense anyways.
[ As I recall Kobe had a lot of turnovers so do we sit Kobe? Again you can’t say what woulkd have happened if PJ used either player or both, Mbenga or Ira. But again we know for a FACT we lost Not using them. You can’t argue that as that is fact and history.]
Again let's assume Phil put in Mbenga and Ira. Who would have they guarded? Mbenga on Perkins? That's pointless as Perkins isn't the main threat or put him on KG perhaps?
[I have posted this before but since you only look at your posts as factual I will reply again to this. I suggested we try Mbenga on Perkins and move him to top of key to open up lane for Kobe. Pau would take KG. Mbenga showed he could hit 15-18 footer so Perkins would have to come out to cover him and keep him honest.
Ira in his stint could have taken either PP or Ray Ray. In short stints he would not have to pace himself and play very aggressive. So simple yet not even tried. So forget the rest of your dribble below.]
Do you really honestly think Mbenga could even slow down KG plus defending the post at the same time? And what about Ira? Put him on who? Ray Ray or Pierce? If on Ray Allen, assuming he could stop Ray Ray completely, Kobe would have been forced to guard Paul Pierce which he could do but would sap his energy as he did in Game 6. Then think about the offense if Ira was playing, what would be his role? From what I know about Newble he's not even an offensive threat so there goes more double teams on Kobe, Pau, Odom, Fisher and more defense on them and would have most likely caused the other Lakers to score less. And if on Pierce, do you really honestly think Pierce would have been slowed the entire series? This guy not only torched
Trevor Ariza but also scored great on Bruce Bowen as well. Using Hobbitmage style, Newble couldn't even carry Paul Pierce's jackstrap, not to mention slow him down. Plus you still got a lack of offense as well. Kobe in the series has been the only one who could really guard Paul Pierce effectively, a healthy Trevor could of at time but he couldn't especially with him not being 100%.
And if Ira was such a great defender enough to alter the series why hasn't he been resigned or signed on by other teams? And if the same was to be said about Mbenga why did he chose to come back to the Lakers despite potentially receiving more playing time with the Heat when they needed a center better than Mark Blount? I have to say, Mbenga and Newble were little more than useful depth players and why they are not compared to TRUE defensive players who aren't All Stars like James Posey and Bruce Bowen (Bowen was never an All Star so he counts). Like I said your opinion is your own but don't try to say that we lost because we didn't put Mbenga or Ira, that is just as the same as saying we should have never traded Kwa-may Brown because he plays defense (which he can't and got lit up against KG back in Dec).
[Are you that immature or do you practice at it? Pat Riley was blessed with great players and was an innovative coach. He actually did coach and not sit on his arse and do nothing like PJ. Pat Riley introduced the use of video tape replay to show players where they should be and other coaching details like shot mechanics etc. and not just draw X’s and O’s on a clipboard. This is now used by ALL teams. PJ introduced Zen and only 1 team uses it. You give way to much credit to PJ when the players win. Please stay in the bathtub when playing with your toy submarine shooting torpedoes. I think your last torpedo went astray and hit you in the arse. You have not broken anything down except for your nervous system.]
Yawn again. You missed the point and tried to respond by saying what Pat Riley did? Now that is really laughable. In that response you haven't put one proven point that either proved me wrong or tried to support your original premise that:

[No you missed the point. I pointed out what Riles accomplished and showed PJ has not contributed a thing except for zen which is useless. If you can’t see the fact that Riles contributed then you missed te point.]
["The Lakers success deals with the players success rather than coaching success."]
If you still want to go through that then give Kobe credit for Game 1 and Game 4 defeats in the 2004 NBA Finals because that is mostly related in what you wanted to say. And again, the Lakers never won another championship until Phil came and that was with a team that had Shaq, Kobe, Eddie Jones, and Glen Rice yet got swept by the Robinson-Duncan duo. If you really want to respond to this post then answer this then:

[Simply stated going back to ancient history does not make a great coach for the Lakers now. Answer me this. Now since he has come back how many championships has he won????]
"If Laker success deals with players success then why did we miss the playoffs in 2004-2005?? (Hint: Phil Jackson wasn't coaching!).
[PJ got fired. Hint hint and there was a coaching turmoil with Tomjanovitch quitting and Winters, PJ’s protégé and triangle innovator, sucking up the sidelines. Ring any bells?]
And if that is the case then the opposite would be true in that Laker failures should also be blamed more on the players instead of just the coach.So if you want to say that premise, then Kobe is more responsible for the 06 playoffs and 07 playoff defeats and the lost in the 08 Finals more than Phil being outcoached."
[I just did and again PJ was clearly outcoached. Kobe had too much responsibility to carry the whole team and coach when PJ wouldn’t or couldn’t. Kobe had to draw up plays, tell players where to be on the floor and when Pau came talk to him in Spanish while coaching him on the floor while PJ sat on his arse.]
Answer that directly please and don't give me crap like Pat Riley bringing up Instant Replay please.
[ I see you grasp little knowledge of basketball and try to make up for it by long rambling post stating falsehoods and calling them facts. If you knew about BB you would know that coach K had these players when they were thrown together and expected to gel. He had a roster of great players with no team concept. When the 3 yr commitment was made by players they played as a team and coach K using many of the previous players and adding Kobe won the Gold Medal. How many Gold Medals has PJ coached? I know you will probably come back with how many championships have coach K won? Well not the same. College coach cannot win championship in NBA but NBA coach can win in Olympics.]
So I take all of them including Lebron were all ball hogs?? Well maybe Carmelo is a ball hog but saying Lebron doesn't have a team concept is really absurd, most analyst would laugh at that idea. Remember Coach K had to get a 3 year commitment out of them. With the exception of the 2004 Team All the other coaches didn't require "3 year commitments" and not only won but owned the competition. 1992 Dream Team were put together very quickly and blew out opponents being coached by Chuck Daly. 1996 Team did the same thing and was coached by Lenny Wilkins. 2000 team was coached by Rudy T. and while blowing out opponents barely escaped with 3 points in the final round. Larry Brown in 2004 could only get bronze. And Coach K. had far longer time to orgainze an Olympic team more than any of the 3 coaches who won the gold medal. Give Daly, Wilkins, and Rudy T. that time and they would have probably even done better. So no can't say Coach K. is better than PJ just because he won a gold medal in the Olympics. And Phil has no gold medals since he declined to coach any offers.
[I can and I did. You are totally clueless if you think a team of superstars can just be thrown together and play as a team. Again I am really getting tired of you putting words in my mouth. Show me where I said they are ballhogs! That was your way of stating a bs response and trying to attribute it to me. Stick to my points and not what you make up. Got It? So PJ declined offers so does that make him a coward. Seems the greatest coach of all time would want that feather in his hat. Unless of course he knows he can’t do it. Just saying.]
[I know you will probably come back with how many championships have coach K won? Well not the same. ]
Again you just went against yourself and spared me from typing so I have to say thanks. What you just said "Its not the same" basically defeats your original premise that Coach K is a better coach then Phil Jackson.

[How in your mind does this qualify as as me going against myself? Your words in my mouth again? Hell no.

JLF, try something better and please get your facts straight. Your dislike of PJ's coaching is not helping your argument that Phil Jackson sucks as a coach. And don't try to revise Lakers history simply to strengthen your argument. And try to answer the questions instead dodging them mmmkay?
BTW I live in Westwood, CA.
-blitz

[My facts are facts and my opinions are mine. Get yours sorted and straight. So Westwood ,CA is code for Denver, Colorado? Thanks for the info Hugo Blitz
Posted by: thekobebryantblitz | October 13, 2008 at 03:59 PM
JLF