Fun with numbers: PER and your Los Angeles Lakers
While I think the numbers iron out better in baseball than hoops (they've been at it longer over there, and the game is better suited for easy figure crunchin'), I'm a fan of statistical analysis in basketball, and I appreciate the insight provided by the new/new-ish metrics. That said, as a card-carrying mathophobe, there's no way in hell I'd ever try to dip my tootsies into the abyss of fancy equations. I don't have enough fingers to count on.
Thankfully, others will go where I and my brother won't. (Trust me, it's fair to speak for him on this one.) On Forum Blue & Gold, contributor Reed has a great post, with graphs and charts and pinwheels, projecting the Lakers' season based on PER (player efficiency ratings) from ESPN's John Hollinger and 82games.com. Happily, and not surprisingly, the numbers favor the purple and gold. The post is well worth the read. One great excerpt:
Our best lineup on paper (Farmar, Kobe, Ariza, Gasol, Bynum) has an incredible PER differential of 28.0 (if that lineup played all 48 minutes of every game, the team would be projected to finish 77-5). Last year, the Spurs had the best 5 man lineup in terms of PER differential (Parker, Finley, Ginobili, Thomas, Duncan) at +31.3. The Celtics had the second best at +28.8 (Rondo, Allen, Pierce, KG, Perkins). The difference between those teams was that the Celtics’ production did not fall off the cliff when they went deep into their bench, and the Spurs did (in addition to the fact that PER really disfavors pure defensive specialists like Bowen). Clearly, this Laker team has strength in both being able to sport very effective 5 man lineups, and in having depth to not lose significant production when it goes 8-9 men deep in the rotation (we have seven players who project to have positive PER differential; many teams have multiple negative players starting). But, there also remains room to create a much more dominant 5 man lineup by improving (whether internally or via trade) at the PG or SF position..."
We've written a lot about the advantages that come with depth. Beyond the ability to absorb the typical run of injuries that hits almost every team, the Lakers will have the ability to counter opposing lineups and force the action by manipulating their own. For all the abuse Luke Walton takes on this site, when he's anywhere from the eighth to 11th best player on the bench, that's a great team.
If it was simply a question of their gaudy top-end talent, the Lakers wouldn't be so heavily favored to again reach, and this time win, the finals.
-- BK
FRIR OCT. 24 - LAKERS VS. CHARLOTTE –*
*
Good morning Charles, Laker Nation 5 DAYS……
*
ROLL CALL:
FAITH, Bob, KEIFO, VMan. Jay Jay, CHARLES, Edwin Gueco, Tsiry, FATTY, ANGRYLaker
Tha Show, Tim-4-Show, TheLakeShow, Generic_One, PIG Miller, Toad, TALIQ, LakerTruth
WESJOENixon, Zakee, Cleon, SBPimp, The_D, Bozz, #4, Nemia Faletogo, ELLE, HMRHed
ComptonsFinest, LakerLEGACY, EXHELODRVR, LAKER TOM, RICK FRIEDMAN, JON K.
GRAIL. ERIC M. Big DAWG, NAJA aka BONUS, KOBE_BLITZ, NEVER, The OUTLAW
RDLEE, TWOODY. HUGO_Boss, CORNER J., BAYWOOD, HUGO SPAIN, JAMIE SWEET
Tsphere, WeaveMan, SIX_ONE_Zero, FEARLESS, CBUCK, KIWI, LAKER_STH, JANAYA
utzworld THE BANNER HOLDER, DICE8UP, HTP, EAST_COAST_JMAN, WOW, SAMLL
BackMamba24, BrownMamba24, WhiteMamba24, Mamba24Fan4Life, FanOfMamba,
JustAnotherMAMBAFAN, JustALakerFan, VI LakerFan, MR_BARNEY_DANGLES, WOL
LAKER_BAKE, LAKER_LARRY, LAKERS4REALZ, LAKERSNZ, DAVE_M, 1978, P_ANG
HELLRAISER(certified Mamba Fan) LAKERMAN_420, MAGIC_MAN, HOBBITMAGE
Purple&Gold_REIN, ZEN, JOHNNY P., DAVE ROSENZWEIG, MOKO, JESTER_GURU
LAKER_BANDIT, BRAD, BOBIE, DAVID_WHANG, DAN_the_MAN, HUBBIT, SEAN714
STAY_THIRSTY_MY_FRIENDS, COMPLEX_BROTHA, CALIPHILOSOPHER, CHUCK23
LAKERGurl, SFLAKERGirl, PSYCHEDLAKERrGirl, SIMILAKERGirl, BOCALAKER_GIRL
LAKER_GIRL_1980, HOUSTONLAKERGirl, SheKobe, LakersRydeOrDie,, LAKER_LASS
DrewPauKobe, KobesBad, NIK KANNAN, SLO_GAL, DAVID_IN_SPAIN, MIKE_T., EJK
SmoothD, ISSANG,THIRTY2, BLAZE1BX, LAKER_FAZE, MAGIA32, EAST_NYBOER
Machiavelly, DOC4daLakeShow, Korey, KARYNANAR, BRAD, PUDDLE, BLKTHGHT06
EPICMESS, StrangerInTheNight, CAMERON, CDUB0512, CALI_KING, BYNUMITE
T_SENSEI, BerkleyLaker, CHICK_4EVER, LONG_LIVE_CHICK, ALEXHIN017, HTJ
HEAD-MBENGA, LAL_FAN, LOOK_LONELY, LOTECH8, VIOLATER, LAKER_IN-BC
SALTLAKER, FKILLAH, HARIYAHU, JCOOL, BZAR, LAKER_DAWG, PS.LAKER_FAN
MICHIGAN_LAKER, PAUL_LEE, BENJAMIN, LAKER_HOLIC, YOU_EVER_NOTICE
WondahBap,Cyrus(Ventrilquist), MARTY, JANDRO, TRIO, LAKER_HOPEFUL, AA_LOOS
CriticalBeatDown, RealityBites, RESPECT_MY_AUTHORITH, MITCHELL, EAGLE_BOY
AMAZING HAPPENS, TELLitLIKEitIS , Lakers4Lyfe, Nestros_Bistro, LINDA_PINED
McGARNAGLE, JOREMA, AFRO_JOE, DASCILLA JONIN_in_JAPAN(InCanada), TEEJ
FRANK FRIZZO, STOCKTON_SHOWTIME, LADIES_MAN, KIKOS_DAD, LAKER_FAN
GiantSquid, STAPLES24, RICO_TICO, LAKALOVER, HE_WHO_HOOPS, B4_HOOPS
AJAX, XTRO, GREEK_DUDE, MobWagoneer, PK-in-the-MESA, LAKAFOO, JHLANNERY
LakerFanCanada, ValleyLaker, CHRIS_H, TULLY MOXNESS, SWETTUAL, USC_LAKER
LAKERKev, Reality_Check,PURPLE&GOLD4EVER, GDCHILD, Benny_BLANCA
BronxLakerFan ChitTownLaker, HoustonLaker, TexasLaker, BrazillianLaker, MR.NANO
*
ALL TOGETHER LET THE WORLD KNOW THAT A NEW DYNASTY IS HERE:
*
WE ARE THE FREAKIN LA LAKERS THE WINNERS OF 14 NBA TITLES.
THE TEAM WITH THE BEST WINNING PERCENTAGE IN NBA HISTORY.
THE ONLY TEAM WITH 2 HOF COACHES. THE TEAM WITH THE MOST
PLAYERS ON THE 50 GREATEST PLAYERS OF ALL TIME LIST(6). THE
HOME OF THE REIGNING AND FUTURE MVP – KOBE BRYANT. THE
HOME OF WILT, KAREEM, GEORGE MIKAN, SHAQ, MAGIC, ELGIN BAYLOR,
THE LOGO(JERRY WEST), PAT RILEY, JAMES WORTHY, BOB MCADOO,
"BIG SHOT ROB HORRY" GAIL GOODRICH THE LEGENDARY SPORTSCASTER
CHICK HEARN COACHED BY 9 TIME TITLE WINNER PHIL (9RINGS) JACKSON
& OWNED BY THE BEST D@MN OWNER IN SPORTS DR. JERRY BUSS
AND THE ONLY ONE WHO CAN EVER DEFEAT OR DIVIDE US IS US
LAKERS TODAY LAKERS TOMORROW LAKERS FOREVER
Posted by: MAMBA24 | October 23, 2008 at 11:00 AM
Roll call, woot! Can the season please start now?
Posted by: Jesterguru | October 23, 2008 at 11:11 AM
Man, that footage of Sasha from the last thread was AWESOME! Great to see Kobe relaxed and chillin with the fellas.
This PER analysis is great and all, but it just tells us what we already know: we have the best team on paper. Now, we've got to mesh that talent with some intangibles: heart, mental toughness, teamwork, and defense. If Phil and Company can gather this team and keep them focused and injury-free, I think we get to avenge our loss against the Celts this year.
Posted by: SBPimp | October 23, 2008 at 11:35 AM
Hey Mamba24 I dunno if I'm one of the Justins on your list, but if I'm not can i get added? Been reading this blog and commenting occasionally for about a year now :)
Posted by: Justin N. | October 23, 2008 at 11:40 AM
I just sat back and thought, "Wow. It sure is a nice feeling to have Kobe and his teammates getting along."
Remember the Bad Old Good Days of Shaq-Kobe?
I loved the winning. Hated the drama. Hated arguing with people in defense of the Lakers through I knew the drama was childish and egotistical.
This team is my favorite team since Showtime. Maybe moreso.
There isn't a single personality on this team that I find distasteful.
GO LAKERS!
Posted by: Jon K. | October 23, 2008 at 11:40 AM
Just to clear up any confusion, the nickname 7&7 (Gasol, Bynum) is called that because they're 7 footers. Its not named after the drink of whiskey and 7-Up. It was just a funny. coincidental fact that I brought up about how whiskey is dark, the soda's light, blah blah. I'm not giving them a nickname after a drink, it just has the same name as the drink.
Posted by: ajax | October 23, 2008 at 11:41 AM
Remember all the talk of Kobe being a selfish player and not making his teammates better?
OVER!
We actually have a team that is the very definition of synergy.
I can't wait for the season to start. I want to see how intelligently creative Phil Jackson can get. I want to see how good he really is.
GO LAKERS!
Posted by: Jon K. | October 23, 2008 at 11:45 AM
aw boo u removed me from ur roll call too
Posted by: tp | October 23, 2008 at 11:49 AM
Ajax,
Two words: "HOLY CRAP!!!"
You know what I'm talking about.
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | October 23, 2008 at 11:59 AM
AK-
I know!! I know!! He's out on the loose!!
Posted by: ajax | October 23, 2008 at 12:05 PM
I dunno if I'm one of the Justins on your list, but if I'm not can i get added?
Been reading this blog and commenting occasionally for about a year now :)
Posted by: Justin N. | October 23, 2008 at 11:40 AM
PUTTING JUSTIN N. IN AS I POST . CHECK FRIDAY! AND WELCOME ABOARD!
Posted by: MAMBA | October 23, 2008 at 12:19 PM
Nuggets waive 5 players. Can you guess who they were?
Hint: One of them is Zakee's least favorite player.
http://tinyurl.com/59utzz
Posted by: Fatty | October 23, 2008 at 12:23 PM
aw boo u removed me from ur roll call too
Posted by: tp | October 23, 2008 at 11:49 AM
MOTHER OF MERCY CAN THIS BE THE END OF RICO!
A THOUSAND, THOUSAND PARDONS, I BLAME IT ON
EARLY SIGNS OF SENILITY. IT'S ON THERE NOW BRO.
CHECK BACK TOMORROW. I'M SO SORRY. ANYBODY ELSE
COME OUT COME OUT WHEREVER YOU ARE
Posted by: MAMBA | October 23, 2008 at 12:23 PM
on nicknames, I'm partial to what somebody posted on another board, "Shock and Awe".
it's super cheesy yet... current and the tv guys could have a field day with it...
Posted by: Stay Thirsty My Friends | October 23, 2008 at 12:30 PM
Exhelo your prior comment about your cousin's dog looking like Rin Tin Tin is over the line. This non basketball related, name dropping has got to stop. Now if the dog looked like Magic...
Posted by: Vman | October 23, 2008 at 12:38 PM
Tom,
What do you think is worse - risking losing Andrew over a perceived slight during these negotiations or having that knee buckle again and having to pay max money for nothing?
I think Andrew will turn out great, but lots of bigs showed early potential until their all-too-fragile legs gave out. I want to believe, like you, he's the second coming. Prove he can make it through a complete season unscathed, and then come back to the bargaining table. Committing a quarter of the salary cap is just more than I'm perceiving the Lakers will do today. A solid guaranteed contract with huge incentives pushing it to near-max money is a little more palatable. One the Bynum camp appears to be balking at.
Also, I have very little doubt the Bynum camp will no way sign a QO. Everyone wants their security blanket and David Lee is waiting for his first big payday, so no, he will take the best offer he can get come next summer. One that will be undoubtedly matched by the Lakers.
One thing I know for certain - the Lakers will be great regardless. If Andrew decides to pull an Elton Brand after winning a few Championships and becoming a prince of the city, the so be it. Again just another thing I don't see happening. We're not the Clippers. The Lakers will always rise.
Posted by: htj | October 23, 2008 at 12:42 PM
Jon K -
I agree - Phil needs to prove that his coaching is up to par this year. Barring any injuries aside, there's really no excuses this year for PJ.
We can't have a repeat like last year against the Celts in the Finals where the offensive game plan was to give Kobe the iso play over and over again. It just doesn't work against the Celts' swarming defense. I would like to see more pick and roll sequences with Kobe/Pau and Kobe/Bynum. Imagine the possibilities!
Posted by: Lakers4Life | October 23, 2008 at 12:48 PM
We got a role call and everything today! Must be some Laker basketball coming my way tonight. Wooooooo Hoooooo!!!!
These nerds gave me a headache. As I tried to read that post on FB&G I started to hear something that sounded like Charlie Browns teacher. By the end of it all I got was wahh wah wa wahhhh the Lakers are good wahhh wa. I pounded a couple Advil and came back with my mathematically challenged brethren here on the Lakesrblog. AK/BK, thank you for making me feel like it's okay to disdain math. hee hee
Posted by: magicman | October 23, 2008 at 12:49 PM
On nicknames - ENOUGH!
How about them apples?
lol....
janaya
Posted by: janaya | October 23, 2008 at 01:02 PM
Hey Laker nation!!!
Sorry for the late entry, but some days.....yikes.
At least it's GAME DAY BABY!!!!!!!!!!!
AND - I'm on the roll call - thanks Mamba24!
I'm glad Kobe isn't as hurt as I had originally thought - I was going to lose it! Even so, I'm hoping he gives it a rest tonight (and maybe even tomorrow). Can't take a chance like that.
Anyhoo - enjoy the game, peeps!
GO LAKERS!!!!
Posted by: justanothermambafan | October 23, 2008 at 01:04 PM
And the loser gets ..........Andrew Bynum.
Both NY teams, the NY Knicks and the Brooklyn Nets are clearing cap space trying to get Lebron James when he goes free.
The Knicks will lose in their quest for James, they always do. That leaves the Knicks to get Bynum, the potential Savior of the Franchise . And by the way, Bynum's boyhood backyard.
How can this happen? If AB listens to his nutcase of an agent, takes the qualifying offer from the Lakers next year, then becomes a free agent.
Will this happen? Only if AB's agent is allowed to go public and escalate the business side into a public fiasco. Hurt feelings and pride can set in. A bad decision could follow.
Step one, with Bynum's blessing has already happened. Lee is crying in public how terrible the Lakers are.
Laker Tom, who has some experience in life, has seen this happen before, therefor the warnings of potential doom.
Mitch needs to handle the negotiations with the steady hand of a Brain Surgeon, to prevent Step Two from happening, ultra hurt feelings.
Otherwise, Step Three, the worst could happen. Bynum goes nuclear on us and leaves to the Big Apple.
I suggest all who want Bynum to stay, to say a little prayer for Mitch. "Keep it steady Mitch, make it happen."
Posted by: Fatty | October 23, 2008 at 01:15 PM
hey janaya, how about this for a nickname?
"Shock and Awe"
You are free to ignore my posts from now on...
Posted by: Stay Thirsty My Friends | October 23, 2008 at 01:18 PM
JustaLakerfan,
We've got to come to a point of agreement that once we reach a stage where we're simply repeating ourselves we agree to disagree and see how things play out.
Here goes...
"[Who cares about when he signed or what he was. An All Star can get injured too. Big money contracts come with big risks. The bottom line is that do you, Lakers and AB's agent think AB will be a franchise player? If so then he should be paid. If not let him walk. No talking about we will keep him anyways as that would be demeaning to AB. Then lets see who is right about AB wqlking. Want to take that risk?]"
What Kobe Bryant was at the time makes all the difference. Kobe Bryant was proven while Bynum is not, Kobe Bryant wasn't injury prone, while Bynum hasn't proven that he's not. The "if not let him walk" line is absolutely silly because those aren't the options. The options are sign him to a max deal he hasn't earned now or sign him to one in a year when he has proven himself. Drew walking isn't a possibility until 2010.
"[Last year he wanted out bad and was under contract. He demanded to be traded. Think that can't happen again. Also who says what the length of his contract will be. Say 3 year contract or 5 year contract with option to opt out in 3 years. Where does that put your argument?]"
Of course that can happen with any player, but that's immaterial to this conversation. It doesn't change my argument in the least because I don't see the comparison. I really don't understand how that is supposed to prove your point. If he signs a three-year deal then it's good for Bynum because he can sign for more money later when the Lakers can still pay him more than anyone. You can't just pull two completely different situations and say they're the same.
"Also the fact remains he can get more then and it will cost the Lakers more to sign him then than now. All this is just for debate purposes as my position has always been that I hope the Lakers sign him to a contract that BOTH sides find acceptable. Now then with that in mind it is all about the amount both sides will accept. But that is my hope but don't mean it will happen that way.]"
I'm sure LA would rather sign him for 5-years 95-million (or whatever the max would be for him in a year) after seeing what he can do for a full 82-games and the playoffs, than signing him for 5-years 88 million without knowing. The fact that they've refused to give him that deal is proof enough. Obviously, I would like to get Drew signed as quickly as possible, but with the unreasonable demands David Lee is pushing it's smart they haven't pulled the trigger.
"[Therin lies the issue of contention as you or myself or for that matter anyone can predict what will happen. No one can assume the future and say no way. I debate on what could happen. Look again at Turiaff, did you see the size of the contract he got? Don't count on AB not getting huge contract offer elsewhere. You also ignored the fact that injuries happen to every one. Kobe has a long string of known injuries and how many does he have that you don't know about? Remember he was in Colorado to have surgery on his knee and no one would have known had the incident not happened. Als he signed big contract right after that surgery. Bottom line All Star calibur does not guarantee injury free. Ask Malone.]"
Turiaf was a player that was not going to play much this season. If Bynum has the year we expect of him we know the Lakers themselves will give him a maximum deal, which will be higher than what any other team can offer him. Turiaf was utterly expendable on this team, if Bynum does what his talent suggests he can he isn't expendable, the Lakers will sign throw an offer no other team can match at him.
And you're twisting my words, of course all-star caliber doesn't mean injury-free. But Bynum hasn't made an all-star team and he missed most of last season. So you're basically rewarding him for a 35 game season where he also missed all of the postseason with a serious knee injury. If you can't see the obvious differences then I don't know what to tell you.
Posted by: Xodus | October 23, 2008 at 01:19 PM
Vman,
"Exhelo your prior comment about your cousin's dog looking like Rin Tin Tin is over the line. "
You're just jealous because you don't have ties to Hollywood like I do.
And I haven't even pulled out the big guns yet:
Cheryl Tiegs is my fourth cousin!! (Her father is from the same small North Dakota town as my mom.)
Posted by: exhelodrvr | October 23, 2008 at 01:20 PM
hey, Smush Parker is available!
How about this for a nickname?
"Shock and Awe".
Posted by: Stay Thirsty My Friends | October 23, 2008 at 01:20 PM
Fatty,
What's the Prize? I would like to "Smush" all negative vibes, becasue Candice "Parker" is hot.
Posted by: Charles | October 23, 2008 at 01:46 PM
Xodus -
Stop making sense. That's not allowed.
Posted by: puddle | October 23, 2008 at 01:51 PM
Brian K.
Just got home and read your post from earlier this morning. Did you actually say you were "polishing your ivory tower"????
If that's not the greatest euphemism in history, I don't know what is. I gotta remember to pull that one out at the next cocktail party, no pun intended. :-)
pslakerfan
Posted by: pslakerfan | October 23, 2008 at 02:01 PM
ok blogers,
yesterday i had gasol/bynum nickname is DOUBLE DRAGON but if DOUBLE DRAGON r really thirsty for a championship than they should stay thirsty and be DOS XX QUIS. =)
Posted by: vlam | October 23, 2008 at 02:03 PM
MAMBA24,
Big fan of yours and the rest of the laker blog family. Been reading the blog since 2005 and this is my first post. Love then lakers and love coming to work knowing there's a game on that night. Please add me to the roll call.
Josh Powel, man was he a good pick up. He's agressive, active and not afraid to commit the hard foul. In that game against the Bobcats in San Diego he fouled a Bobcat player (can't recall the exact player) on a break away layup. He comitted a hard foul which is the type of attitude this team needs off the bench and to establish a fearless rep.
lakerlaw
Posted by: lakerlaw | October 23, 2008 at 02:05 PM
Actually Charles, that was just a 'cheezy' lead in to get people to check out the link.
And yes Candice Parker is hot. I can say that because my wife said it first.
Fatty - Married 31 years and counting.
Posted by: Fatty | October 23, 2008 at 02:07 PM
At this point, a realistic assessment of the Bynum contract situation would put a much higher likelihood on the chance of additional knee problems than on the chance that Bynum will end up taking a qualifying offer and going eslewhere in a couple of years.
There is also, at this point, a much higher likelihood that Bynum will not improve as much as hoped, thus not warranting a max deal, than there is that he will end up taking a qualifying offer and going eslewhere in a couple of years.
So, at this point, the driving factors for the Lakers should be his level of play and his health, not the fear that he might go somewhere else.
Those factors can both be mitigated, in Bynum's favor, in a relatively short amount of time (i.e. by the end of the season) or through an incentive-based contract, which works in favor of both sides.
Posted by: exhelodrvr | October 23, 2008 at 02:27 PM
Edwin,
Welcome aboard the Jordan Farmar band wagon. I can appreciate how JF's intensity and rookie immaturity might make him an acquired taste, to be sure. But the joy with which he plays and the competitive spark he brings to the game are valuable traits on a team that at times in the past has seemed too laid-back.
As he's only 21, I suspect we will be able to enjoy watching him mature and improve his decision making. It was nice to read in today's LA Times article that Jordan recognizes he still can learn a great deal from D-Fish, and the respect he showed Fish was very winning.
This is a remarkable year to be a Lakers fan, with so many players to admire and root for. This blog is gonna be a very rockin' place.
Posted by: Rick Friedman | October 23, 2008 at 02:45 PM
I trump you all...
my friend from high school is cousins with Vanessa. Kobe's wife!
Boo-yah! lol.
Posted by: Faith | October 23, 2008 at 02:55 PM
puddle,
I forgot that was one of the blog's rules. I'm sorry. haha
Posted by: Xodus | October 23, 2008 at 02:56 PM
Kobe had a contract before his big 100+ million one.
The 3 years after the rookie contract extension. He was 21 years old I believe. Back then he was a budding superstar (really he was such coming off HS, lest we forget he took Brandy to the prom...and his press conference.)
Back then he was coming off an injury laden rookie year (I think he broke his foot), and an all-star year (1997). Even then the same cannot be said for Bynum which has yet to even sniff the ballot. And budding superstar status. 1999 (the year he signed an extension after his rookie contract), we were in the WCF I believe, and Kobe was key to the playoff series.
Kobe's contract back then was 71 million for 6 years. For roughly 11.8 million per year. Bynum's camp is asking for 17?!
Posted by: Faith | October 23, 2008 at 03:08 PM
remember Devin Green? he got waived by San Antonio. I'd much rather have him than Coby Karl, heck, I'd rather have Smush than Coby Karl...
Posted by: Stay Thirsty My Friends | October 23, 2008 at 03:09 PM
How about "Dos Brutos" for Pau and Drew?
Hey Mamba24, please include me on the roll call. Long time Laker fan but can't post too much because of work issues...you know. Thanks.
Go Lakers!!!
Posted by: Laker Phil | October 23, 2008 at 03:47 PM
I think nicknames are hilarious. If it bothers someone so much, then don't read the posts, simple as that:
The Ambiguously Gay Duo
Beauty and THE BEAST
Butter and Chives
also, what's up with Salim Stoudamire? he was a borderline first rounder not too long ago, now San Antonio drops him like a hot rock before the season starts?
Posted by: Stay Thirsty My Friends | October 23, 2008 at 04:01 PM
AK,
Who has the better chance of being killed in The Shield, Vic or Shane?
Posted by: never | October 23, 2008 at 04:13 PM
What about this for a nickname:
TOWERS OF POWER
It's the kind of thing you would expect Jesse Jackson to say were he a Lakers fan.
Posted by: whatever | October 23, 2008 at 04:19 PM
63.2
Pau Gasol’s shooting percentage in six preseason games (24-for-38).
Just sweet.
Countdown 5 days...
Posted by: HugoSpain | October 23, 2008 at 04:27 PM
63.2
Pau Gasol’s shooting percentage in six preseason games (24-for-38).
Just sweet.
Countdown 5 days...
Posted by: HugoSpain | October 23, 2008 at 04:28 PM
Xodus,
Karl , haven't you l;earned yet that you can never END much less WIN a debate with blitz, long time, or justa. Those guys ALWAYS have a retort. It's like hours of foreplay with NO satisfaction. Just brief bubbles of pleasure that inevitably get burst. Thank God it will all be over by the 31st and Drew will be committed to purple and gold for the next 6 years.
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | October 23, 2008 at 04:33 PM
Fatty,
Your analysis troubles me....
Not because it smacks of madness, but because it smacks of feasibiliity. Someone needs to have a long hard meaningful discussion with David Lee while aggressively and actively gesticulating with sacks of oranges.
By the way, as a resident of the gray wastes of Cleveland, I can tell you that LeBron James is going to be a New Jersey/Brooklyn Net. LeBron spends A LOT of time with Net co-owner Jay-Z. He's supposedly one of LeBron's best friends.
No way he's staying in Cleveland. No way.
GO LAKERS!
Posted by: Jon K. | October 23, 2008 at 04:35 PM
DJ MBENGA waived, now the lakers roster stands at 14
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/teams/roster?team=lal
AK/BK could u check and confirm that please?
thanks
MAMBA24 plz put me on the bandwagon
Posted by: lebanese mike | October 23, 2008 at 04:35 PM
JustaLakerfan,
We've got to come to a point of agreement that once we reach a stage where we're simply repeating ourselves we agree to disagree and see how things play out.
Here goes...
"[Who cares about when he signed or what he was. An All Star can get injured too. Big money contracts come with big risks. The bottom line is that do you, Lakers and AB's agent think AB will be a franchise player? If so then he should be paid. If not let him walk. No talking about we will keep him anyways as that would be demeaning to AB. Then lets see who is right about AB wqlking. Want to take that risk?]"
What Kobe Bryant was at the time makes all the difference. Kobe Bryant was proven while Bynum is not, Kobe Bryant wasn't injury prone, while Bynum hasn't proven that he's not. The "if not let him walk" line is absolutely silly because those aren't the options. The options are sign him to a max deal he hasn't earned now or sign him to one in a year when he has proven himself. Drew walking isn't a possibility until 2010.
"[Last year he wanted out bad and was under contract. He demanded to be traded. Think that can't happen again. Also who says what the length of his contract will be. Say 3 year contract or 5 year contract with option to opt out in 3 years. Where does that put your argument?]"
Of course that can happen with any player, but that's immaterial to this conversation. It doesn't change my argument in the least because I don't see the comparison. I really don't understand how that is supposed to prove your point. If he signs a three-year deal then it's good for Bynum because he can sign for more money later when the Lakers can still pay him more than anyone. You can't just pull two completely different situations and say they're the same.
"Also the fact remains he can get more then and it will cost the Lakers more to sign him then than now. All this is just for debate purposes as my position has always been that I hope the Lakers sign him to a contract that BOTH sides find acceptable. Now then with that in mind it is all about the amount both sides will accept. But that is my hope but don't mean it will happen that way.]"
I'm sure LA would rather sign him for 5-years 95-million (or whatever the max would be for him in a year) after seeing what he can do for a full 82-games and the playoffs, than signing him for 5-years 88 million without knowing. The fact that they've refused to give him that deal is proof enough. Obviously, I would like to get Drew signed as quickly as possible, but with the unreasonable demands David Lee is pushing it's smart they haven't pulled the trigger.
"[Therin lies the issue of contention as you or myself or for that matter anyone can predict what will happen. No one can assume the future and say no way. I debate on what could happen. Look again at Turiaff, did you see the size of the contract he got? Don't count on AB not getting huge contract offer elsewhere. You also ignored the fact that injuries happen to every one. Kobe has a long string of known injuries and how many does he have that you don't know about? Remember he was in Colorado to have surgery on his knee and no one would have known had the incident not happened. Als he signed big contract right after that surgery. Bottom line All Star calibur does not guarantee injury free. Ask Malone.]"
Turiaf was a player that was not going to play much this season. If Bynum has the year we expect of him we know the Lakers themselves will give him a maximum deal, which will be higher than what any other team can offer him. Turiaf was utterly expendable on this team, if Bynum does what his talent suggests he can he isn't expendable, the Lakers will sign throw an offer no other team can match at him.
And you're twisting my words, of course all-star caliber doesn't mean injury-free. But Bynum hasn't made an all-star team and he missed most of last season. So you're basically rewarding him for a 35 game season where he also missed all of the postseason with a serious knee injury. If you can't see the obvious differences then I don't know what to tell you.
Posted by: Xodus | October 23, 2008 at 01:19 PM
======================
Xodus,
I feel I have stated my case and disagree with what you have stated. I still am debating on could and you on would happen.
Kobe was injured and had history and had surgery in Colorado BEFORE he was resigned. In fact he was given an advance on his salary so he could fight case.
Lakers took huge risk signing Kobe as the potential for Kobe sitting in jail was a real possibility. AQgain every contract has a risk. I am not twisting your words but presenting debate on opposite position based on what you stated.
AB has 4 seasons with the Lakers I belive but only partially but mostly missed one season. If PJ did not use or misuse him previously does not mean that AB is injury prone. He has shown what he is made of and if you or Lakers or other doubters don't want to accept this, then it is best to say put up or shut up by FO and see what happens.
I fully would expect the venom from the bloggers and fans towards Mitch and FO if AB walks. Especially from those who were the most vocal about not signing AB to best contract he could get.
You failed to answer about Ronny Turiaff's contract. So what if he was only a backup in your opinion. Did you see the $17 million a year coming from anyone? I think not. I also think since you did not see this coming could you possibly see what AB will command. You want to let other GM's dictate what you are going to pay AB?
We still are far apart but I respect your right to your opinion. I am willing to say we can agee to disagree as this can go on indefinetly.
Thanks for the debate.
Posted by: JustaLakerFan | October 23, 2008 at 04:37 PM
MAMBA24 -- pls put me back in. back for the new year!
Posted by: DK | October 23, 2008 at 05:14 PM
Good job Fatty. Great post. Glad to see the sentries aren't asleep on the job. We'll have to keep our eyes on the Knicks to see if their glances at Baby Bynum become a more pronounced stare.
Wes
Posted by: wesjoenixon | October 23, 2008 at 05:24 PM
Ex
THE Cheryl Tiegs?
Posted by: Vman | October 23, 2008 at 05:26 PM