But is he worth $11.4 million?
Many a Lakers fan has complained over the years about Lamar Odom's production not being commensurate with his pay, particularly his 2008-09 salary, which is consistently reported at 14.1 (use the Dr. Evil voice) meeeeeeeelion dollars. According to the Daily News' Ramona Shelbourne, that number's has been commonly (and incorrectly) inflated, with the actually number coming in at $11.4 million. Still not exactly a pittance, obviously, but we're nonetheless talking a contract nearly $3 million cheaper.
Assuming that info is correct, I'm wondering if it makes the previously dissatisfied feel any better about Odom? Is he more reasonable as an "$11-million player" (if "$11-million player" even means something, which I'm not sure it does)? Is it easier to accept playing him off the bench or as a fourth option (some readers have chafed at that for a player of his contract in either role)? Will your perception and expectations for Odom change with a new idea of his bank account?
Personally, the money isn't an issue to me. For starters, everyone in the NBA makes such astronomical salaries nowadays that you can make an argument that they're all overpaid. Plus, we're now entering Lamar's fifth season. The contract is what it is. And most importantly, I consider any athlete's salary to be sunken costs and because of that, him getting paid "X" amount of dollars should never dictate his role. The only thing worse than Lamar Odom overpaid (if that's how you view him) is him overpaid and used incorrectly in an effort to somehow "justify" or "earn" the check. If his most effective use comes as reliable fourth option (as opposed to a wildly inconsistent #2) or an unusually well-compensated sixth man, so be it. The money stays the same no matter what, so you might as well get the best bang for your buck, as opposed to trying for the "most" bang in terms of sheer numbers.
To some degree, the topic is neither here nor there, in terms of
things that should truly affect the season. But I was curious if you
had any thoughts.
(UPDATED: Because a few people have already commented along these lines, I want to make a clarification. I was thinking about this salary issue purely in terms of how you view a player "being worth the money" or, in some cases, if you think the salary should dictate how he's used. Does the salary "matter" to you in that sense? Those pointing out that the salary's effect on the cap, payroll, roster, etc. are totally correct and I wouldn't argue against that point at all. My question, however, essentially means viewing the contract in a vacuum or- at most- against other players' salaries, as opposed to the cap parameters. Maybe it's a little more philosophical than truly realistic, but oh well. )
AK
It was actually Dr Evil..not austin powers.
Posted by: ryan | October 05, 2008 at 06:51 PM
By
Yes we may only be paying Lamar 11 mil but he still does count as 14 mil against the cap. Thats how the consfusion began in the first place. The trade kicker was spread out over the years. That is what raised his cap number to 14 mil. If we were going to trade him we would still need to recieve 75% of that 14 Mil in return just like before.
MH
Posted by: michael h | October 05, 2008 at 06:56 PM
i don't think he's particularly over-paid. i was thinking all along that he's worth about $10 million. getting lamar, at the end of his contract at 11.4 is very reasonable.
people are forgetting what he's done for the Lakers. people only see that this year he will be (most-likely) 4th option. (although you never know, he could wind up playing better than Bynum or Gasol, and be 2nd option again, yet that may not be likely).
i agree with Najja and John. LO has been with the Lakers during a dark period full of injuries, mind you. he did his best, gone to war with Kobe & co., and was basically our best big man (who i'm sure would much rather slash to the basket, than post-up back to the basket).
as for not working out, all we know is he reportedly had tendinitis or something, and he thought the best way to treat it would be to stay off of it. i assume he was working out before that occurred. he's no shaq. when has LO ever shown up to camp out of shape before? never that i can recall. so, i'll give him the benefit of the doubt.
Posted by: justin | October 05, 2008 at 07:02 PM
Some first Pre Season Games:
http://tinyurl.com/44lfwd
Former Laker Ronny Turiaf has 6 points, 7 rebounds 7 assists. Not bad maybe Don Nelson's offense could be the system that he would best fit in. If he really wanted to try it in the Bay Area, we could have tried a trade maybe.
-blitz
Posted by: thekobebryantblitz | October 05, 2008 at 07:43 PM
Ryan,
"It was actually Dr Evil..not austin powers."
Thank you for pointing that out. Embarrassing space out on my part. Appreciate the pickup.
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | October 05, 2008 at 08:54 PM
Rick-
To answer a few of those, Sasha's ankle is still sore, but according to PJ there isn't swelling. I'm sure they'll be very conservative with him. He's on the floor adn working, but that doesn't necessarily mean they'll have him push in early preseason games. Better safe than sorry.
I wouldn't classify what they're doing with Kobe as "diminished minutes," at least not in any way that would have a profound effect on scoring. Last year, he played a tick under 39 minutes a game. My guess is they'll look to shave that down maybe two minutes a night, so he averages closer to 37. Remember too, that if they're able to sit Kobe more, it means they're winning, and if it's down the stretch in the fourth, by a reasonable margin. There really isn't much slack to be picked up, so to speak. That said, they expect to have a lot of ways to put the ball in the basket, from Kobe to Pau to Drew to LO, and guys like Fish, Farmar, and Farmar can certainly add points, too.
JF looks a little bigger, and definitely arrived in good shape. Asking him, he spent a lot of time this summer shooting and conditioning, etc. How that translates into defense depends a lot on his work, and also how well the Lakers mesh as a team on that end.
As far as camp surprises, I don't know if they've been there long enough to see any (haha).
I'm sure more will start to play out as the preseason kicks into gear (meaning actual fake games).
BK
Posted by: Brian Kamenetzky | October 05, 2008 at 09:05 PM
I think people should give Lamar a break. Have people forgotten that this is the NBA? This is U.S. American professional sports. Anyone expect exemplary character from these people is insane. We can (justifiably) whine all we want about how Lamar makes more in a year than most Laker fans will make...well, ever, but the fact is that being wildly overpaid does not help people have better character.
RANT FOLLOWS:
Lamar is not the hardest working guy in the NBA. He never will be. But he's not Kwame Brown either. He's is what he is and that's pretty great. People say he only played well after Pau arrived last season, but he really started to play better for us after the all-star break. The fact of the matter is that he has always played better after the all-star break. Remember when him and Caron and then rookie D. Wade got home court and won a playoff series without a proven star? Dude put up some crazy numbers in some of those games. Should we forget his contributions against the suns in the playoffs? He was great in those series.
Anyway, yeah, he doesn't have the talent to do what Shaq did without the supernal work ethic, but no team in the league has 8 guys who work harder than our projected top 8 in terms of minutes. Which brings us back to Lamar not being the hardest worker in the game. We already have that guy. We should be (and I know many of us are) thanking our lucky stars for that. But not only that, we've surrounded him with gym rats. Seriously a lot of our guys work crazy hard.
Now I'm not going to ask us to pretend to be Knick fans (that's just cruel). But I could conceivably ask us to pretend to be Buck fans or Nets fans or whatever. But I won't. Let's pretend we're Rocket fans for a minute. We're the best team in the league.
Seriously. Right now, before any games have been played, we have as much and probably more talent on paper on our team than anyone. So why is the main feeling that I feel when pretend to be a Rockets fan fear? Fear of injuries? Sure, Rockets have been hit hard, but every team has that problem, the Lakers as much as anyone last season. So what's the problem?
Look at the collective strength of character of the top 8 players on the rockets vs. the top 8 on the Lakers. OK, we've got Yao, and some hard working roll players...and then, well...then the gnawing in the stomach sets in. OK, before that becomes to painful, let's go back to imagining ourselves as Laker fans. Feel the fear dissipate to be replaced by anticipation. (I like to pause and gloat for a moment here but you may have better manners than me...) We know we have the will and the drive to win it all this season. Only Boston can say the same. Everyone else has doubts. Big doubts. In one case, The Big Doubt, but I digress.
END OF RANT.
So, I suppose we can complain about Lamar's off season on a slow news day, but a lot of NBA teams have a really crappy breakdown of talent and hard work combining on their roster.
Seriously if Lamar is our big character weakness, every fan base in the world (in every sport) is begging for our problems. Which I guess they are :)
GO LAKERS!
Posted by: Cameron | October 05, 2008 at 09:12 PM
All NBA players are overpaid , but some are more overpaid than others,Odom is worth 8-10 million for what he provides the lakers, rebounding, some good defense, decent play making and passing skills, not too turn over prone, and with Bynum, Gasol, Kobe and Sasha, he doesn't need to score a lot and he doesn't complain about not getting the ball a lot or having set plays run for him so
all of you bucking for a trade, careful what you wish for
Posted by: tomK | October 05, 2008 at 10:05 PM
Like what Faith said is Lamar Odom really overpaid?
Ok $11 Million is something that isn't cheap not even to Buss. But compare his salary to other players who aren't in the league's elite:
Stephon Marbury: $21 Million
Larry Hughes: $12 Million
Jason Richardson: $12 Million
Ben Wallace: $14 Million
Erick Dampier: $11 Million
Troy Murphy: $11 Million
Bobby Simmons: $10 Million
Tyson Chandler: $11 Million
Zach Randolph: $14 Million
Samuel Dalembert: $11 Million
Raef LaFrentz: $12 Million
Brad Miller: $10.5 Million
and
Shaq: $21 Million only reason though is that he's in the twilight of career otherwise $21 Million for the Shaq of ages past deserves that much money.
Compare those to Lamar Odom: $11.4 Million
No one except for Jason Richardson and Zach Randolph has scored more points than Lamar. Only Tyson Chandler beats Lamar in rebounding . Only Brad Miller and Stephon Marbury are better than Lamar in terms of assists (and Marbury is a point guard too!). In those numbers, Lamar ranks 3rd in Points, 2nd in Rebounds, and 3rd in Assists out of those lists.
In terms of "clutch", who would we choose to give the ball to at the end of games? I wouldn't give it to any of these guys. So why bag on Lamar about not being "clutch" when guys that are similarly paid are just the same? Having the "warrior" mentality? Understandable as there are two people on the list who have that: Ben Wallace and Shaq. But both are out of their primes and on the decline, Shaq hasn't averaged 10 rebounds the whole season since 04-05 and Wallace didn't average 10 rebounds since his first year in Chicago. Only Zach Randolph is close to Lamar in terms of rebounding and while he did get more points than Lamar, he isn't the passer that Lamar is.
Defense? Probably the only ones who could play better defense at their positions are Tyson Chandler, Samuel Dalembert, Erick Dampier and Shaq. But then again these guys are centers and neither of us would want Lamar to be our guy defending the post. Lamar plays solid defense and while it isn't all defensive team material, it's solid enough not to be embarrassing.
So what other arguments can be said he's overpaid? That he didn't work out in the summer? That is really blown out of proportions:
1) He had tendinitis. He COULD have chosen to get arthoscopic surgery. But he decided to let his knees get extended rest and not have a recovery period that could have forced him to miss some of training camp just like what Kobe did back in 2006.
2) He DID work out in the summer, not as much as PJ would have liked but understandable considering he took rest instead of surgery for tendinitis. After the tendinitis went away he worked out in Las Vegas in late August with Paul Pierce and Baron Davis. Don't believe it?
http://tinyurl.com/57hg89
And considering his production especially from last year, what else could be said? If you say he is inconsistent, probably at best is that he is inconsistent given his talents. Then yes he should be doing better. But inconsistent as in sucking? Get real. Tell me when Luke Walton (5 Million), Radman (6 Million) and Kwa-may Brown ($9 million originally now $4 million which is still being overpaid somewhat) all produce better than Lamar Odom. Otherwise try something else because this overpaid thing is really overblown. Does he need to *earn* that paycheck? Of course as do the Lakers who I think are overpaid worst like Radman and Walton. Just try some other excuse because this is very fun to argue.
-blitz
Posted by: thekobebryantblitz | October 06, 2008 at 12:56 AM
#1 rebounder, 2nd for steals and assists, 3rd for ppg and fg %. this guy is just dead weight. he needs to be top 3 in blocks(4th), and 3 pt shooting too this next season before we consider resigning him at the vet minimum. and even then he better be working some extra hours cleaning up staples to make it worth our while.
Posted by: db | October 06, 2008 at 01:07 AM
ginobili comes off the bench for the spurs and he is arguably their second best player in the team. Actually, for me, if duncan and ginobili isnt healthy, they're not going to win regradless of how parker is. lamar is our third / fourth best player, i dont see the problem with him coming off the bench, its the guys who finish the games, not the ones who start that matters.
Posted by: lent08 | October 06, 2008 at 01:12 AM
BK, Thanks for the detailed response to my queries. Tuesday night's game is a welcome antidote to the depressing news cycle overwhelming the front pages.
Posted by: Rick Friedman | October 06, 2008 at 06:39 AM
everyone has to stop ripping lamar odom, he is the most versatile player in the world, he can rebound, pass, dunk, shoot, and he will make or break the lakers title run this year.
a healthy & motivated lamar odom is unstoppable, let other teams look down on lamar and he will deliver his message. it will be worth every penny.
Posted by: dave | October 06, 2008 at 06:43 AM
PEOPLE... We are starting to get off subject. I am not upset so much about the money. It is his ethic working towards a championship. THE TIME IS NOW!! That window wont be open for long and look how he treats it.
Day of rest
Coach Phil Jackson gave the team a break during training camp, letting them stay home Sunday, the final day of two-a-day practices.
Jackson indicated Saturday he was happy with the players' efforts, particularly in a Friday night scrimmage.
"Everybody worked hard," he said. "My coaches felt that 'Drew [Bynum]played the best that he's performed all week, at least hustle-wise.
"The first unit felt very confident and played well together. Pau [Gasol], particularly, had an impressive practice. His rhythm is there because he's been playing. He just kept it up."
The day off was a tad too late for some players.
After Saturday's morning practice, Odom sauntered up to Jackson and asked if players could skip the night practice.
Jackson smiled, put his hand on Odom's shoulder and said, "No."
Odom smiled back.
"I had to ask," said Odom, a big baseball fan who wanted to watch the Dodgers-Cubs game. "I was just looking out for my guys."
Posted by: Mikeandmike | October 06, 2008 at 06:43 AM
THIS IS A TEST**** THIS IS ONLY A TEST
-----------------------------------------------------------
ROLL CALL”
*
(1) Faith, (1A)Bob, Keifo, Vman. Jay Jay, Charles, Edwin Gueco, Tsiry, Fatty, ……..
ALL TOGETHER NOW:
WE ARE THE FREAKIN LA LAKERS THE WINNERS OF 14 NBA TITLES.
THE TEAM WITH THE BEST WINNING PERCENTAGE IN NBA HISTORY.
THE ONLY TEAM WITH 2 HOF COACHES. THE TEAM WITH THE MOST
PLAYERS ON THE 50 GREATEST PLAYERS OF ALL TIME LIST(6). THE
HOME OF THE REIGNING AND FUTURE MVP – KOBE BRYANT. THE
HOME OF WILT, KAREEM, GEORGE MIKAN, SHAQ, MAGIC, ELGIN BAYLOR,
THE LOGO(JERRY WEST), PAT RILEY, JAMES WORTHY, BOB MCADOO,
"BIG SHOT ROB HORRY" GAIL GOODRICH THE LEGENDARY SPORTSCASTER
CHICK HEARN COACHED BY 9 TIME TITLE WINNER PHIL (9RINGS) JACKSON
& OWNED BY THE BEST D@MN OWNER IN SPORTS DR. JERRY BUSS
AND THE ONLY ONE WHO CAN EVER DEFEAT OR DIVIDE US IS US
LAKERS TODAY LAKERS TOMORROW LAKERS FOREVER
*
This has been a test of your Roll Call Alerting System. Had this been an actual
Roll Call You would have been instructed to put on your Game Day faces, Get
your Popcorn and get ready for another Devastating Laker win.
THIS CONCLUDES THE TEST OF THE ROLL CALL SYSTEM
Posted by: MAMBA24 | October 06, 2008 at 07:25 AM
*__________________*
Give L.O. Less Dough
BANDWAGON
*------------------------------*
(01) Rick Friedman - . He just isn't always committed to being the best he can be.
(02) LakerTom - Salaries get left in the locker room when the team takes the court.
(03) Faith - Personally I'd prefer to pay him somewhere around 7 mil
(04) HobbitMage - If you're going to talk like an all-star and want $$ like
an all-star you have to play like an all-star and he hasn't.
(05) Benjamin - No smoking weed during the playoffs
(06) TheKobeBryantBlitz - Even I was among the people who thought Lamar Odom was overpaid
(07) Lakers Sth - LO isn't worth $14M or $11M to THIS team. He's worth less.
(08) Jon K. - No. Lamar Odom is not worth 11.4 million dollars. He is overpaid
(09) Leo - . He's grossly overpaid
*__________________*
Give L.O. The Dough
BANDWAGON
*------------------------------*
(01) Mamba24 – He’s Lamar Odom and you’re not B#tch.
(02) Laker Hopeful - I'm tired of people complaining about Lamar's salary
(03) HellRaiser(certified MambaFan) - Lamar is worth every penny
(04) Najja aka Bonus - For the work and effort it takes to persevere and make it to the NBA,
they are all worth their salaries.
(05) Laker Kev - I think 11 is about right given the inflated market overall in the nba.
(06) JohnValleFuoco - Come on you guys. Lamar has played HUGE MINUTES for us over the last two years.
(07) JohnnyP - Whether or not LO is worth his salary depends on which LO you are talking about.
(08) Justin - i don't think he's particularly over-paid.
(09) Cameron - I think people should give Lamar a break
Posted by: MAMBA24 | October 06, 2008 at 08:01 AM
Dollars in the NBA are difficult to compare. In any given offseason players go for wages that the market allows.
What was Lamar worth to Miami the year they signed him to this contract? He was perfect for them and the style they were playing.
What was unloading Shaq worth to LA? Lamar was perfect for us, considering Buss wasn't going to pay Shaq and we needed a trade.
Last summer the free agency market was kind of weak. After Baron Davis and Elton Brand, there wasn't a whole lot of talent out there. In a summer like that, LO could have pulled a nice contract, perhaps bigger than what he has now.
He'll be a free agent next summer. If D'Antoni and Donnie Walsh clear enough cap space, i bet LO gets another large contract, and he'll be worth it.
The Lakers run a set offense a vast majority of the time. LO doesn't necessarily excel in set offenses. But, even at his current pay, he's been "worth" every dime, because you can't look at what your paying a guy today, you have to value a guy based on what you had to pay when you got him. And for LA, we got away from Shaq and his ego, and you can't put a value on that.
Posted by: Benny Blanca | October 06, 2008 at 08:11 AM
dave-
There's a tendency among fans to focus on what Lamar doesn't do, rather than what he does. After Gasol came over last year and the pressure to be a number two scorer was removed, LO flourished. He's a guy who does a lot of things well, and as long as you don't expect him to shoot a lot and score a ton, can make many positive contributions. Fortunately, the last thing this team needs is another high profile player who wants points.
LO will likely take a pay cut no matter where he goes, and certainly if he stays here. I don't see anyone giving him the money he's making now for a long stretch- but you never know. His play this season will certainly impact that. The fitness thing is something to keep an eye on- no question, he didn't look lean and mean coming in, and while there are some reasons for it, it's reasonable to question exactly how much time LO spent getting ready. Fair enough. Personally, I'm going to wait until the season starts before I make sweeping judgments on him.
Argue if you'd like about his effectiveness, but LO leaves it on the court. He works hard, plays in pain, and takes his team losing very personally, often taking the blame himself for team losses. Once they get going, he's still very likely to be a 35mpg+ guy, and whatever "controversy" we're seeing now won't be a problem.
BK
Posted by: Brian Kamenetzky | October 06, 2008 at 08:19 AM
All Rise! Hey Fam...
Posted by: Charles | October 06, 2008 at 08:20 AM
blitz,
"So what other arguments can be said he's overpaid?"
How about he's one week into the season and he's already asked for a practice off so he can go watch a baseball game?
I love Lamar, but he's overpaid.
Lamar Odom = Laker for Life.
GO LAKERS!
Posted by: Jon K. | October 06, 2008 at 08:31 AM
Good morning Mamba24, Charles and this fabulous Laker nation morning CRUE!!!!!!
Mamba24 - my heart skipped a beat there! I was all ready for the rest of that roll call brother! But - sadly - we have to wait one more day before we finally get some GAME TIME happening. It's all good though. After this loooonngg dry spell I guess one more day is ok.
Regarding LO, I will add my voice to the "For the love of God stop dumping on LO" bandwagon. The man is all heart and talent. You'll see - this year is the year of the Swiss Army Knife. The Lakers need LO. He's the most versatile player we've got - and that says something when you're on the same team as the Mamba. Of course Kobe's the man, but LO is a vital component of this team, and there is no way we get to play for the title this year without him. Yes - I'm an LO homer and proud of it! Just watch - he will not let us down.
GO LAKERS! (and yes LO = Laker for life)
Posted by: justanothermambafan | October 06, 2008 at 08:38 AM
Nice to see that Ronny is playing well up at Golden State.
GO LAKERS!
Posted by: Jon K. | October 06, 2008 at 08:53 AM
Here's the thing that no one wants to talk about...
How are we going to retain everybody? How are we going to be able to afford the financial expense of a Dynasty-building team?
Gasol = Expensive contract
Bryant = We retain him through a max contract.
Bynum = We retain him through a max or near-max contract.
Odom = We retain him through an expensive contract.
Bench = We retain players through mid-level contracts.
Add it all up it ends up being a lot more than the threshold of the luxury tax.
I don't know how we're going to be able to afford this. Unfortunately, the only way we create a Dynasty is keeping everyone together. This lineup is a Dynasty lineup.
GO LAKERS!
Posted by: Jon K. | October 06, 2008 at 08:58 AM
I'm glad people are starting to lay off of Odom a little. Kobe will never be Jordan and Lamar will never be Pippen. Lamar is what he is. He is very exciting to watch and brings some versatility to the Lakers.
I don't know why Laker fans always have to point the finger or be mad at someone. Can't we all just be happy with the team? If we start losing, fine lets complain, but at this point we're looking really good and I don't think we should be bashing anyone until a player single handedly loses a game for us.
Lamar = Laker for Life
GO LAKERS
Posted by: mrbarneydangles | October 06, 2008 at 09:12 AM
mamba 24
Very wise. Be prepared.
Is the roll called for pre season?
Bloggers should work off the summer rust before they're called to order... or, like Lamar, we could play our way into shape.
Posted by: Vman | October 06, 2008 at 09:15 AM
Mikeandmike,
It's good to see that Phil is replacing his snarkiness with some positive words.
GO LAKERS!
Posted by: Jon K. | October 06, 2008 at 09:38 AM
Mamba24
We are not only the freaking Lakers but also addicted to Lakers.... There you are, the test is working.
Posted by: Edwin Gueco | October 06, 2008 at 09:45 AM
Bottom line: We need to find a way to get rid of RadMan.
The dude is pretty much useless to us. He suckers Phil with his mystical shooting every 20th game. All the while his man is burning him or he's doing something stupid.
The Lakers "gamble" on Rad was a bust. We need to try and fix this thing. That's a lot of $$$ to be throwing away like that.
"Space Cadet"?
No.
Gaping hole in our cap SPACE CADET!
Do the right (and ridiculously obvious) thing Mitch, ship this guy out!
And Let's hang that 15th thang!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: 15th Coming | October 06, 2008 at 09:51 AM
I'm from the old school and I feel a player should be paid commensurate with what he does.
I thought at $14 he was overpaid but at $11 million, I think he's paid just right. You could do alot worse with $11 million in the NBA.
People undervalue the glue and dirty work that Odom does for the team. He's worth every penny.
Posted by: Bynumite | October 06, 2008 at 09:54 AM
Good Morning Mamba Guy et al..
Good news/Bad news
Good news - Lakers play Tuesday
Bad news - Not on TV in Arizona
Season almost here. Yeah!
Posted by: Fatty | October 06, 2008 at 09:57 AM
Another Bio-Chrono Insight into Lamar Odom...
Lamar Odom is orientated towards the emotional experience of the physical. This means that he is strongly effected by the dialogue between pleasure and pain.
In short, Lamar Odom plays basketball because it is fun for him. He enjoys playing. He derives pleasure from playing.
I remember reading the story about Lamar Odom's mother dying. How did Lamar Odom react? He went out, by himself, in the middle of the night, and shot basketballs for hours.
Why? His whole being was in such pain that he needed to assuage that horrible feeling by doing something that brought him joy... simply playing basketball.
While it's wonderful that basketball is so fundamentally a joyful experience for Lamar, people who are joy/pleasure versus pain orientated often do not have the strongest work ethic. Lamar probably LOVES playing basketball, but doesn't really love practicing. Practice is work and there's not a lot of fun to be had working with a coach barking orders at you. However, PLAYING is FUN!
Playing is major motivator for Lamar. I'm not certain of this, but I bet during those stretches where the Lakers are winning a game that Lamar plays much better than when the Lakers are losing. Why? Winning is more fun than losing. So, if Lamar is having fun, he'll physically respond better. It's just the way he processes things.
I find it interesting that Lamar played with a lot of pain last season. Pain is a very stimulating (both positively and negatively, but primarily negatively) experience for Lamar Odom. These kinds of people often are at their best when they overcome pain. That experience makes them feel powerful. However, long-term pain is usually especially physically dehabilitating for them. Lamar would only be able to overcome something like that due to his creative/spiritual strength which can be used very effectively to "tune out" destructive stimuli.
It will be very interesting to watch Lamar Odom this year. It's a contract year, so it's a big deal for him. I guess he's without pain now which is good and we should be winning a lot of games this year, which is fun, so, maybe Lamar will have a breakout season. There's a lot of factors which support that potential.
We'll see.
Lamar = Laker for Life.
GO LAKERS!
Posted by: Jon K. | October 06, 2008 at 10:01 AM
The 08/09 Lakers take the floor for the first time tomorrow night! That's what I'm talking about!
Posted by: lakers_sth | October 06, 2008 at 10:03 AM
We need to start Odom. If we use him off the bench then all of his atats decline, his trade value decreases in a year that his salery rises. If we end up not trading Odom and he spends an unhappy year coming off the bench he probably won't resign with us at a discount rate. If he doesn't resign, then we loose a very, very talented player without gaining any cap space to re-sign a replacement. We become a much, much weaker team. And then, also, not using the mid level on Posey becomes a HUGE gaff. We loose Odom and a defensive replacement. we could have had for 5 milllion a year.
Wes
Posted by: | October 06, 2008 at 10:08 AM
Salaries in any company are based on your individual responsibilities with that company.
CEOs make what they make based on their job duties.
IT department worked make what they make based on their responsibilities.
Journalist who run the best blog on the interwebs make what they make based on their job duties. Etc etc.
The same philosophy is applied to professional athletes.
If LO is getting paid 11mil, personally, I expect 11mil worth of statistics, effort, and contributions.
As a company owner if you are not receiving back what you are paying for an employee you either reduce their pay, job title, and responsibility. Or you fire them.
The only difference here is LO's contract was signed by another team, and the contract rules in the NBA force a team to pick-up that already defined contract.
Posted by: steven v | October 06, 2008 at 10:09 AM
Greg Oden is gonna play tonight vs. The Queens. He rolled his ankle last week, but he's feeling good now.
Can't wait for Andrew to crush him!!!
LET'S GO LAKERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: banner year | October 06, 2008 at 10:13 AM
Jon K-
I expect Dr. Buss to fork out some dough if the Lakers are winning. All those extra playoff games equal a lot more money for the Lakers and the Buss family. Not to mention the name brand that goes with winning (Lakers are already a global brand) and having players like Gasol and Yue to bring in foreign fans from all over.
Also, I expect Kobe to take a pay cut. If he really is so determined to win (I know he is) then he will see that by taking a pay cut the Lakers will have a better shot of winning. I'm not talking about a monster pay cut but maybe a few mil every year. I don't think Vanessa needs any more jewelry...
Also, I think Odom will for sure take a pay cut. We've been arguing about how much he's worth but I think Lamar and the Lakers will have no problem with a salary in the $9 mil range. Also, Gasol won't be able to ask for a monster salary (gotta give some stuff up if you want to win).
All this will allow the Lakers to pay the young guys who haven't gotten a large salary around, especially Bynum. If Bynum plays well (he will) then he will for sure deserve a huge payday. Also, players like Farmar and Ariza who haven't really ever gotten a decent salary (in NBA terms) will get a MLE.
Pretty much the older, wealthier guys are gonna have to step up and take a little pay cut so the young guys can get theirs. If everyone is as dedicated to winning as they say they are, this should not be a problem.
Lamar = Laker for Life
GO LAKERS
Posted by: mrbarneydangles | October 06, 2008 at 10:16 AM
GOOD MORNING CHARLES AND MORNING CRUE!
Bloggers should work off the summer rust before they're called to order... or, like Lamar, we could
play our way into shape. Posted by: Vman | October 06, 2008 at 09:15 AM
I agree I'm doing curls with THE JACKSON JOURNAL as we post. LOL!
Posted by: Mamba24 | October 06, 2008 at 10:35 AM
What's up Lakerville!
Wow, Mamba, you got me all excited with the ROLL CALL TEST. Glad to see everybody's here and ready to put their game faces on. As for the topic of the day, I like LO. He leaves everything on the floor... he's played with pain... great rebounder... he's a glue guy... THE PACKAGE (aka Swiss Army Knife). Everytime someone criticizes Lamar, I recall that give-and-go that he did so well with Pau last season, where he left his defender way behind and finished strong at the hoop. LO just needs to be consistent. Hopefully, he'll mostly be injury-free this season and do the miriads of things that he always does that lead to a win.
Go Lakers!
Posted by: SamLL | October 06, 2008 at 10:35 AM
We are not only the freaking Lakers but also addicted to Lakers.... There you are, the
test is working.Posted by: Edwin Gueco | October 06, 2008 at 09:45 AM
Thank you sir. Good to see you are alert Edwin. Now stand down soldier
Posted by: Mamba24 | October 06, 2008 at 10:37 AM
Jon K,
>>>How are we going to retain everybody?
They can't. Or rather, the only way the Lakers can retain
everybody is if everybody is willing to take contracts for
less money, or if Jerry Buss is willing for the Lakers to
lose money in order to pay everybody what they could get
elsewhere.
>>Gasol = Expensive contract
His numbers are locked in for 3 seasons. Can't change them.
>>>Bryant = We retain him through a max contract.
If Kobe wants to keep as much of the team together as
possible, he could opt out and re-sign for a contract that
starts at a lower salary and goes for more years. For
example, he could take 20 million per for 7 years.
>>>Bynum = We retain him through a max or near-max
>>>contract.
Not. Only way Bynum gets a max contract is if they don't
re-sign him this month and he absolutely dominates this
season. Nobody (including the over-the-luxury-tax Lakers)
gives a max contract to an unproven commodity.
>>>Odom = We retain him through an expensive contract.
But not as expensive as you might think. If he's making
11.4 right now, I could see him re-signing with the Lakers
for a multi-year deal starting around 8 or 9.
>>>Bench = We retain players through mid-level contracts.
Ain't going to happen. You saw what happened with Ronny.
Right now, you'd have no problem re-signing Ariza for less
than the MLE, but if he has a good season, then he'll get
offered more. Farmar has already shown enough that
there are teams that would offer him more than an MLE.
But bear in mind that a dynasty doesn't require every player
to stay the same. The Kobe-Shaq dynasty had several players
flow in and out of it. All this team really needs to establish
and keep this dynasty is Kobe, Pau, Bynum, and 2 or 3
guys from Lamar, Fish, Sasha, Jordan, Luke, Rad, and
Ariza.
If any of the main role players leaves, the Lakers will bring
in someone to fill their spot. Ronny left, but Josh Powell
will step in and fill his role. He'll probably be a bit better
than Ronny in some ways and not as good in others. Coby
Karl and Sun Yue are already in the training process to
step in and fill a role in the guard rotation if the Lakers lose
a guard (e.g. if Fish retires or if Jordan gets offered a big
contract that the Lakers are unwilling to match in 2010).
If Lamar has his ego in check next summer when it comes
time for contract negotiations, then maybe Buss will be
willing to stay in luxury tax territory for a few more years
to keep him in the fold. If not, I can't imagine the Lakers
paying Lamar >11 million and up when they have 3 huge
contracts for Kobe, Pau, and Andrew. To be honest though,
I can't imagine any other team offering Lamar a huge contract either.
Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | October 06, 2008 at 10:43 AM
*__________________*
Give L.O. Less Dough
BANDWAGON
*------------------------------*
(01) Rick Friedman - . He just isn't always committed to being the best he can be.
(02) LakerTom - Salaries get left in the locker room when the team takes the court.
(03) Faith - Personally I'd prefer to pay him somewhere around 7 mil
(04) HobbitMage - If you're going to talk like an all-star and want $$ like
an all-star you have to play like an all-star and he hasn't.
(05) Benjamin - No smoking weed during the playoffs
(06) TheKobeBryantBlitz - Even I was among the people who thought Lamar Odom
was overpaid
(07) Lakers Sth - LO isn't worth $14M or $11M to THIS team. He's worth less.
(08) Jon K. - I love Lamar, but he's overpaid .
(09) Leo - . He's grossly overpaid
*__________________*
Give L.O. The Dough
BANDWAGON
*------------------------------*
(01) Mamba24 – He’s Lamar Odom and you’re not B#tch.
(02) Laker Hopeful - I'm tired of people complaining about Lamar's salary
(03) HellRaiser(certified MambaFan) - Lamar is worth every penny
(04) Najja aka Bonus - For the work and effort it takes to persevere and make it to the NBA,
they are all worth their salaries.
(05) Laker Kev - I think 11 is about right given the inflated market overall in the nba.
(06) JohnValleFuoco - Come on you guys. Lamar has played HUGE MINUTES for us over
the last two years.
(07) JohnnyP - Whether or not LO is worth his salary depends on which LO you are
talking about.
(08) Justin - i don't think he's particularly over-paid.
(09) Cameron - I think people should give Lamar a break
(10) Benny Blanca - , i bet LO gets another large contract, and he'll be worth it.
(11) MrBarneyDangles - we should not be bashing anyone until a player single
handedly loses a game for us.
(12) Bynumite - at $11 million, I think he's paid just right
(13) SamLL - I like LO. He leaves everything on the floor, he's played with
pain..great rebounder, he's a glue guy...
Posted by: Mamba24 | October 06, 2008 at 10:46 AM
LAMAR ODOM IS not OVER PAID
I could scream it from th heavens if I thought they existed.
First off, this team goes nowhere the last two years without Lamar. His rebounding and solid post D is one of the BIG reasons Bynum had the room to develop as he did. He provided the slack the kid needed. With no Lamar, the pressure falls squarely on Andrew's 18 year old shoulders. With no Lamar, Ronny doesn't have the room to develop into the guy who could make 17 mil. Without Lamar, this Laker team loses a lot of humility and life experience: Nobody else in the NBA has lost family members at the staggering rate that Lamar has. I have had to deal with young family members suddenly leaving this earthly paradise and I can tell you I was surprised and inspired two years ago when Lamar overcame his grief and chose to be with the team.
The man leaves it all on the court every night. He never quits. Could he shoot better from the perimeter? Sure. COuld he not throw length of the court passes out of bounds? Of course. Is he worth 11 million dollars? What is worth 11 mil? Honestly though, is there anything that we can point at and say, that's worth 11 million dollars!
We will re-negotiate his contract at the end of the season, or he'll be traded by Feb. Simple as pie. I think we'll keep him for three reasons: Best rebounder on the team. Best Post defender on the team (Bynum may take over this one, but he hasn't yet). The staff loves him, he's a lovable fellow and he works his tail off. I think this year he'll shine with some pressure and a little challenging. Otherwise, if someone gives him more than 10 mil at the end of the year, so be it. What can you do?
GO LAMAR!!!!!
Posted by: Jamie Sweet | October 06, 2008 at 10:59 AM
>>>Bottom line: We need to find a way to get rid of RadMan.
>>>
>>>The dude is pretty much useless to us.
It has been said before, but there's a certain naivety to that
kind of logic.
"Player X sucks. We should trade him for someone better."
The logic is flawed on multiple levels...
1. If said player (Vlad Rad in this case) truly sucks, then
you're not going to get some All-Star or first round pick for
him in return... you're just going to get a player who sucks
about the same level as them or whose contract is even longer
and more repulsive (until the last year of their contract, when
they become an "expiring contract"). If the Lakers trade
Vlad Rad for Jared Jeffries or Marko Jaric or someone like
that, they aren't really any better off.
2. Vlad doesn't suck that hard. Yes, his defense is mostly
nonexistant, but he's a good 3-point shooter who spaces the
floor for post players and slashers. Even on nights when he's
not hitting, most teams don't sag off of Rad to double team.
And if they do, he does a pretty good job of hitting the 3's
and making them pay.
3. Not every player on a good team needs to be a superstar
two-way player. Since the introduction of the salary cap,
most teams are relegated to 1 or 2 superstars and maybe
another 1 or 2 All-Star level players. The rest of the team
is filled out with role players with a variety of strengths and
weaknesses. Vlad is such a player. He has a strength in
3-point shooting and a weakness in defense.
4. Vlad played almost 23 minutes per game on the team
that won the Western Conference last season. That is a
pretty significant contribution to a very good team. If he
was really that terrible, either he'd be playing less minutes
or the Lakers would be losing more games.
----
In summary, Vlad (and Luke for that matter) are not cancers
to the team like Kwame and Cook and Smush. He has a role
that he plays pretty well. He's a bit overpaid for what he
contributes, but so are half the players in the league.
I'm not saying that I'd turn it down if Toronto offered to trade
Jose Calderon for Radman, but that's just not going to happen.
And if the Lakers were to trade Rad for Tim Thomas, that ain't
going to improve the team.
Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | October 06, 2008 at 11:14 AM
Mamba24,
I'm alert could not watch the Dow falling down at 500. Are you sure LO deserves a dough or just plain donuts during these bleak times? Give him more donuts as motivation to run faster, jump higher, gosh! a lot of people are going unemployed due to store closings and here we are giving one person $ 11M, how about giving him 11 million pennies plus donuts as bonus. That's how players should be paid during depression. LOL!
Posted by: Edwin Gueco | October 06, 2008 at 11:22 AM
According to VladRAd: As far as I've heard from the coaches, everybody is going to be playing shorter minutes," Radmanovic said. "So, we have to prepare mentally....
To prepare mentally means he has more time to find for snow for his slavic snowboarding hobbies while Luke moonlights with Craig's List as a spokesman for junk items. LOL!
Posted by: Edwin Gueco | October 06, 2008 at 11:38 AM
Hmm on Lamar Odom, this is where I'm torn. I think it's in the best interest of the team to trade him since imho he's been most effective at power forward and if the pau/bynum combo takes off then i think lamar becomes redundant, and I'm not a fan of the whole lamar being point thing, I remember how badly that went the last time. Having said that Lamar has definately bled purple and gold the last couple of years and I wouldn't shed any tears over seeing him stay a laker. Bottom line this is a nice problem to have :)
Mamba24,
My vacation ends when the regular season starts but responding to the roll call test. Also I'm sure there's a championship bandwaggon cruising the streets somewhere, please add me to it. However I'd like to be left off any 55, 60, 70 or blah regular season win band waggon, those days are dead to me. The only measue of success from now on is a championship banner. I'll signup for a "at least 3 lakers on the west all star squad" bandwaggon though.
Posted by: Taliq | October 06, 2008 at 11:39 AM
Unless you are paying him out of your wallet it is totally irrelevant how much he is paid, it only matters how well he performs for the fans.
I'm a bit worried Phil is over coaching with all of the options he has, he's like a kid in a candy store. It took Odum three years to learn the triangle and now he put him at the point? Just because you can't doesn't mean you should. This will almost surely mean Lamar playing more than one position a game, and then a whole different set of configurations for the playoffs. Pick one or two options and stick with them, don't confuse Lamar. You can have Kobe play all five position, but not Lamar, Phil needs to coach within his ability regardless of the price tag on his jersey.
Posted by: Laker Justice | October 06, 2008 at 11:49 AM
*__________________*
Give L.O. Less Money
BANDWAGON
*------------------------------*
(01) Rick Friedman - . He just isn't always committed to being the best he can be.
(02) LakerTom - Salaries get left in the locker room when the team takes the court.
(03) Faith - Personally I'd prefer to pay him somewhere around 7 mil
(04) HobbitMage - If you're going to talk like an all-star and want $$ like
an all-star you have to play like an all-star and he hasn't.
(05) Benjamin - No smoking weed during the playoffs
(06) Lakers Sth - LO isn't worth $14M or $11M to THIS team. He's worth less.
(07) Jon K. - I love Lamar, but he's overpaid .
(08) Leo - . He's grossly overpaid
(09) DB - he better be working some extra hrs. cleaning staples to make it worth our while.
(10) TomK - Odom is worth 8-10 million for what he provides the lakers,
(11) LongTimeLakerFan - I can't imagine the Lakers paying Lamar >11 million and up when
they have 3 huge contracts for Kobe, Pau, and Andrew.
*__________________*
Give L.O. The Money
BANDWAGON
*------------------------------*
(01) Mamba24 – He’s Lamar Odom and you’re not B#tch.
(02) Laker Hopeful - I'm tired of people complaining about Lamar's salary
(03) HellRaiser(certified MambaFan) - Lamar is worth every penny
(04) Najja aka Bonus - For the work and effort it takes to persevere and make it to
the NBA, they are all worth their salaries.
(05) Laker Kev - I think 11 is about right given the inflated market overall in the nba.
(06) JohnValleFuoco - Come on you guys. Lamar has played HUGE MINUTES for
us over the last two years.
(07) JohnnyP - Whether or not LO is worth his salary depends on which LO you
are talking about.
(08) Justin - i don't think he's particularly over-paid.
(09) Cameron - I think people should give Lamar a break
(10) Benny Blanca - , i bet LO gets another large contract, and he'll be worth it.
(11) MrBarneyDangles - we should not be bashing anyone until a player single
handedly loses a game for us.
(12) Bynumite - at $11 million, I think he's paid just right
(13) SamLL - I like LO. He leaves everything on the floor, he's played with pain
..great rebounder. he's a glue guy...
(14) Dave M. - he will deliver his message. it will be worth every penny.
(15) TheKobeBryantBlitz - this overpaid thing is really overblown
(16) Jamie Sweet - LAMAR ODOM IS not OVER PAID I could scream it
from the heavens if I thought they existed.
(17) JustAnotherMambaFan - The man is all heart and talent.
Yes - I'm an LO homer and proud of it!
Posted by: Mamba24 | October 06, 2008 at 12:06 PM
Video from today's practice is up already.
http://www.nba.com/lakers/multimedia/0708video.html
Interviews with PJ, Fish and Kobe. Kobe gives some insight into how their scrimmages have been going. Mentioned that their first scrimmages were really lopsided and they had to break up the units, putting Kobe and Pau with the younger guys. PJ keeps bringing up that they had a team that played very well together last season and knows there's a unit he can put out there that'll execute at a high level. He says Drew and Pau are still clumsy together. He talks about their defensive tweaks. Fish talks about his off-season recovery from his nagging foot injury.
Posted by: lakers_sth | October 06, 2008 at 01:04 PM
Mamba24 - I am absolutely, positively on the "Give LO the Dough" bandwagon. As I said - he's all heart and soul and tons of talent. He will show this year why it is exactly that the Lakers need him and cannot win the title without him. Beware NBA - the Swiss Army Knife cometh....
GO LAKERS!
LO = LAKER FOR LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: justanothermambafan | October 06, 2008 at 01:05 PM