But is he worth $11.4 million?

AK,

>>>>>Personally, the money isn't an issue to me. For starters, everyone in the NBA
>>>>>makes such astronomical salaries nowadays that you can make an argument
>>>>>that they're all overpaid. Plus, we're now entering Lamar's fifth season.
>>>>>The contract is what it is. And most importantly, I consider any athlete's salary
>>>>>to be sunken costs and because of that, him getting paid "X" amount of dollars
>>>>>should never dictate his role. The only thing worse than Lamar Odom overpaid
>>>>>(if that's how you view him) is him overpaid and used incorrectly in an effort
>>>>>to somehow "justify" or "earn" the check. If his most effective use comes as
>>>>>reliable fourth option (as opposed to a wildly inconsistent #2) or an unusually
>>>>>well-compensated sixth man, so be it. The money stays the same no matter what,
>>>>>so you might as well get the best bang for your buck, as opposed to trying for
>>>>>the "most" bang in terms of sheer numbers.

Excellent points, Andy, especially the part about using the player incorrectly to try and get your money’s worth. In general, I agree with you with a couple of minor exceptions.

First, the money does make a difference because now it is easier to imagine Lamar accepting a new contract for around $8M, for example, since that is not anywhere near as big a drop from $11M as it would be from $14M. This validates the idea that Lamar may be with the team long term and thus the team may be willing to give him more rope and playing time. If the team did not see any way of keeping Lamar, then they might game plan him out of the starting lineup in anticipation of trading him and wanting to give Ariza a chance to show he can start at the 3.

Second, because the Lakers are in the luxury tax area, every dollar less they have to pay in salary saves them another dollar in tax, which means that the $3M difference is really a $6M difference. This could help keep Lamar from being a luxury tax victim like Ronny was. Were the Lakers not in the luxury tax, they would undoubtedly been more willing to keep Ronny.

But otherwise, you are right. Salaries get left in the locker room when the team takes the court.
Wonder if Marc Cuban agrees with you considering Jason Kidd. LOL.

Tom

Keep in mind that the market is inflated. I mean where else can an Okafor get paid like he did. Or Deng?

Not to mention Luke Walton lol.

But I think a large percentage of his "earlier" paycheck was on potential alone. Unfortunately we know now that it doesn't pan out.

Consider this though...Kwame Brown (whom I actually like but come on), was earning 9 million. Compare that to LO who is heads and shoulders better? Then with that comparison, LO earns his 11 million. But now that Kwame is earning 2? Well then you can argue that LO is worth a lot less than 11.2.

Personally I'd prefer to pay him somewhere around 7 mil. And even that is kind of unfair considering Luke is earning 5 mil (maxes out at 6!).

Hobbitimage,

"Yes, the $$ matters. Why? Because of salary cap and
delusions of grandeur. If you're going to talk like an
all-star and want $$ like an all-star you have to play
like an all-star and he hasn't."

As I told Laker Tom, I was thinking about these salaries being judged individually in a bubble or, at worst, dictating how a player is used. As opposed to how they affect the payroll. Along those lines, I totally agree with you.

As for the other part, LO has talked about wanting to play like an All-Star, not that he actually is an All-Star and should be treated as such. There's a big difference. And the money being paid is as much (arguably more) about what a team is willing to pay him. Most people don't say, "Shut up! I'm not worth that much!" Plus, Miami gave him that contract, not L.A. Unless you think LO doesn't care about "earning" his keep (and I personally think he does), I don't think that really applies to him.

AK

Faith,

Kwame's actually making 4 mil, not 2. But your general point about inflation still makes sense. If anything, because Kwame is making 4. haha

AK

There you go lol.

Faith,

What a beautifully written piece!! Words are inadequate to describe the sheer brilliance of the argument you presented in your post. The concise language and the comparative value you applied to L.O's contract as it related to other Lakers.........simply exquisite!

But Faith you didn't stop there....no you didn't. You saved the best for last.......your Coup de grace was to invoke the salary of LUKE WALTON.........how did you put it?

"Personally I'd prefer to pay him somewhere around 7 mil. And even that is kind of unfair considering Luke is earning 5 mil (maxes out at 6!)".

Faith I almost fell out of my chair when you said Luke would max out @ 6Mil...........Hey Faith, If Luke is making 6Mil and NOBODY is complaining (or writing blog entries) is it possible for ANYBODY to be overpaid??LOL

Mitch K, w/ PJ and the Buss family meeting on Odom's case, here's their discussion: what are we going to do with this player? Old man says: "light up his butt or ship him out now, can't afford him". Then, the young Jimbo quips: "too premature at this time, let's see what he can do but how?" He seemed not to be ready and it's already preseason. We have Drew, Kobe and Pau on aboard. PJ defends Odom and gave assurance to owners and management, "let me handle him, I will set up the situations and see if the experiment works".

I think PJ is on his side. He's delivering the message from the old man that he is the odd man on the scheme of things. They placed their bets on Drew, Kobe is given and Pau is a keeper, however the Buss Family cannot afford additional luxury taxes in an economic turmoil, in fact they're not sure whether they could meet their financial goals this season. If Odom's 14M salary is equivalent to additional 5M luxury taxes in '09 therefore his re-signing should generate additional 25m in revenues to make it feasible. Unfortunately, it's hard to quantify a direct costing contribution of one player, it has to be Championship or Odom is busted. Another way, Odom has to step up and becomes ala' Magic or Scottie he becomes a gold standard to precious to sell at this time even w/o championship. If Odom remains as merely the Odom we knew before, an inconsistent dude with no fire in defense, then he follows Kwame's path. This is all about Odom and PJ is just the pitcher.

I hope Odom should be a businessman, a consciencious veteran and could pick up what PJ is doing for him.

Dodgers moves on, as the Cubs' Curse continues. Congratulations Joe Torre & the Dodgers!

Faith:

Nice post.

Even I was among the people who thought Lamar Odom was overpaid at $11 Million. I just hope still Lamar plays well and helps us win the championship and if possible reduce his salary and remain a Laker.

Always keep the Faith I guess

Thanks,

-blitz

. Jackson said Kobe Bryant, who decided against having surgery for a torn ligament in his right pinkie, has not "been shooting the ball well" in practice, but that his "game speed is there.
Thanks Kobe for being selfish and not having the surgery done on your pinkie.

i just want to put this in writing.

my ex was the biggest cubs fan ever. most of my friends are as well. We all went to vanderbilt.

Thank you, Vanderbilt.

Thank you, dodgers. I have bragging rights for the rest of my life. Although the lakers lost, this makes up for it more than life myself. My parents have my tickets to the NLCS. Go blue. Thank you for everything.

and, of course, thank you AK + BK. Satco is on me, next time we are all @ VU.

Late Night Reader,

Thanks for the pickup. I think this was one of those cases where I had it spelled incorrectly and I didn't pay enough attention to the suggestions. Either way, appreciate it.

AK

AK,

you wrote: Unless you think LO doesn't care about "earning" his keep (and I personally think he does), I don't think that really applies to him.

my response: If Lamar cared about "earning" his keep
would he have spent the summer lounging on the beach
with Corona's [ if that's his preference ] ? Would he have
worked on his jumper like Trevor Ariza? Would he have
done what the Lakers/PJ asked him to do in terms of
getting his body right?

Note the difference b/n Vlad and Lamar in terms of
acceptance about what role he will play. Note the
difference b/n Lamar and the guys looking to make
the team in terms of hunger. Note the difference in
professionalism b/n Lamar and Derek.

As I recall, here is a rough paraphrase of Lamar's quote
about being a Laker: I think I've played well enough. I
deserve to be a Laker.

In *my* opinion, that is not the attitude of a champion. That
is not the attitude of someone trying to win a championship.
He's gone from being the #2 option to the #5 option in 6
mos and it all comes back to not working on his game
in the off season. 11 mil is too much for that type of
player. At least it is if I'm writing the check. I'd rather get
someone from the ndbl and give him to Kareem for a year
at the cost of 3 mil and see what happens.

Lamar, I hope you've got a set of long tweezers because
I'd guess you're ridin' pine by the end of the season.

AK,

Sticking to the structure of your scenario, I think 11 is about right given the inflated market overall in the nba.

Come on you guys. Lamar has played HUGE MINUTES for us over the last two years. He played more than KOBE did. Let's remember that Lamar played PF on the first AND second team units.

If he wanted to take some down time and spend some "quality minutes" with his family, I say go for it. If any year he had the window available to do that it is this year. YES, yes, we are expecting a championship this year, I know. However, you can also argue that less will be required of him night after night this year than in years past. Therefore, he saw the window and took it! Let's not forget that his family went through a tragic loss not so long ago and they may have different needs than we can understand.

As far as the money goes, Lamar can only be himself. He does NOT have Kobe's wiring and no amount of prodding can make him develop it! Therefore, I say we take what Lamar can give as that is where true long lasting motivation comes from, within. He will also want to be there for his teamates. He will NOT want to let us down. In my opinion, Lamar earns his money starting OR coming off the bench. I feel that strongly about the guy.

I have confidence that he can contribute as a 3rd and 4th option scorer and expend more energy on defense, I look forward to alot more quality games from Lamar. Simply put, we MAY not need a healthy and strong Lamar until the playoffs. Heck, Phil has always had that mindset anyway (Robert Horry anyone?). We can get away with it more this year than any in recent memory.

Lamar said he needed the down time to cool off some of the aches he has going on. I believe him and I will make room for it in my expectations of the guy. Later in the year when we are screaming for more from Lamar, let's all remember that he took some personal time for himself, and now he can step up for us "When Needed". Works both ways for me. I don't think he'll let us down.

Here's the thing...

If the lameass Knicks can grossly overspend on terrible players, well, I'm A-OK with the Lakers overspending on good and great players.

I don't give a damn about the salary cap. Dr. Jerry Buss is a billionaire and the Lakers are consistently profitable.

If the Lakers lose $10 million a year (which they don't and won't), then Dr. Jerry Buss will be broke in a 100 years.

In the meantime, if we win 100 Championships over the next 100 years due to overpaying, well, I, personally, think that's more valuable than the Buss family transforming itself into a multi-generational aristocratic dynasty.

Just win, baby! That's all that matters.

GO LAKERS!

The $14.1M is still the significant number. When you have a limited budget to achieve a goal, you need to make sure the money is spent wisely on each thing so that you have enough left over to get whatever else you need.

So, what the market dictates as a player's worth has to be weighed against what they are worth to a particular team. It's the GM's job to assess that. When you budget for anything else in the world, you start with categories/needs and fill in what you have to spend on that particular thing. When you're building a house and a certain type of flooring is too expensive, you go with a less expensive type so you have enough left over to spend on fixtures.

LO isn't worth $14M or $11M to THIS team. He's worth less. Until he plays like he's worth more.

>>>First, the money does make a difference because now
>>>it is easier to imagine Lamar accepting a new contract
>>>for around $8M

Good news. Thats what I've been saying they should offer
him for an extension all along. Something like 4 or 5 years starting
at 8 and ending at 11 or 12. I don't know if he'd go for it, but
at that level of money, it would be worth keeping him.

I still don't know if he'd take it, or if he feels he's worth a
contract starting in the neighborhood of 12 mil, but I honestly
like Lamar and think he could contribute to several championships.

One other question though. Does his actual salary apply for
trade value? Or is it his cap hold? In other words, if the
Lakers go to trade him, does he count as 11.4 million salary
going out or 14.1 million?

Jon K,

>>>Dr. Jerry Buss is a billionaire

That's a common misconception. He's not. In fact, he's one
of the less-affluent owners in the NBA.

http://hoopshype.com/owners/jerry_buss.htm

That's why he can't afford for the Lakers to bleed away money,
like the Knicks do. Yes, he'll pay luxury tax to put a good
team together, but I don't think you'll ever see him running
up 100 million in team salary like the Knicks do.

Millionaires (and billionaires for that matter) don't get to that
level by mis-managing their money.

>>>Yes, that makes a difference. He was one of 2 at 14
>>>mil to not make an all star team. He undoubtedly has a lot
>>>of company at 11 mil in that stat.

Well, in addition to Bibby, that adds in these players who will
make over 11 million next season and have never made the all star team:

Jason Richardson
Larry Hughes
Al Jefferson
Zach Randolph
Andre Iguodala
Raef La Frentz
Monta Ellis

I think odds are pretty good that Ellis, Igoudala, and Jefferson
will eventually make the All-Stars. But even so, that makes
a total of 9 guys paid over 11 million who have never made
the All-Star game. And in every case, it was because the
team that gave them the contract saw the potential that
they WOULD be an All-Star caliber player. With some guys
it just doesn't pan out that way.

Whether or not LO is worth his salary depends on which LO you are talking about.

Pre-Gasol, I might have said LO was not worth it. But post-Gasol LO was a different player. He consistently, yes consistently scored decent numbers and led the squad in rebounds.

During the finals, he only showed up for one quarter. The shadow with LO's jersey didn't deserve more than other role players. But the LO that showed up for that quarter was worth way more.

As per his attitude, LO consistently said he realized how rare an opportunity getting deep into the playoffs was. He seemed to really want the trophy. I don't doubt that. He is, however, a reticent guy by nature. To expect him to be Ronny or Kobe is to ask him to be yet another LO.

Final analysis: I don't think the salary or contract situation will make him play harder. I think he wants to be great. He doesn't think he can be an all-star. But his post - Gasol playing was very valuable. He is a Lakers star. And this year I hope he can drag that status into the finals, be the big difference and make the doubters doubt themselves.

GOOOooooOOOO LAKERS!!!!

I'm wondering how the current financial crunch might affect various sports franchises. We can talk about these figures, like 11 million or 14 million... but what happens when an owner has credit line problems and can't meet payroll?

Let's see, how did the Lakers' starting 5 spend their offseason in preparation for a championship run:

Kobe, worked out all summer and reported to camp in top shape.

Pau, worked out all summer and reported in top shape.

Bynum, worked out all summer and reported in top shape.

And then there's Lamar. Coming into not only a year where the team will make a championship run, and a year where he will be playing a new position requiring more agility, foot speed and shooting, but also a contract year. With all of that motivating him, he reports to camp out of shape after a summer of "chllin" on a beach.

So, no, $11 million doesn't change the equation at all. He's grossly overpaid and his salary should not be used as a reason to play him more minutes than someone else (Ariza) who is better at the SF position....

Fish, not sure, but if history is any guide, worked out all summer and reported in top shape.

AK,

After thinking a little and reading the various responses to the thread question, I think it definitely is an important distinction that works to both the Lakers’ and Lamar’s benefit.

First, $11M actual salary does make it more likely that the Lakers will be able to get Lamar to accept $8M or $9M on a new contract than if he was actually pulling down $14M. Lamar as a 4th to 6th option at $8M to $9M would be a good deal, even as just a backup power forward to allow Pau to backup Drew. The $14M is not a big issue because the Lakers are still paying Drew under his rookie contract this year but next year, Lamar would need to take a big cut to remain, even if the team won it all this year. The $11M actual salary helps this situation.

Second, the $14M salary cap figure helps the Lakers because it increases the value of his expiring contract and means that teams looking to reduce salaries can send the Lakers more value in contracts in the trade. And the $11M actual salary means that a team trading for Lamar would have an easier time re-signing him if that is what they chose to do. The $14M actual salary helps this situation.

Of course, Lamar needs to show how valuable he is to this team. That means the boards and defense, which means power forward coming off the bench and not starting small forward. If Lamar plays big enough, the $3M difference between his actual and book salary may be enough to keep him in purple and gold if we win the championship.

Tom

The Portland Owner is LOADED, 20 billion. Rockets, Spurs owners "only" 80 million. When did Shaq get a 200 million dollar contract? How many years was it for?