But is he worth $11.4 million?

Good topic. Personally, I'd peg Lamar's worth at about $9 million. But considering how they treat money in Washington DC and Wall Street, who's to quibble about $2.4 million?

Lamar's got skillz. He's got a great heart. As stated in the last thread, he's just got to get his head on straight. Coming to camp not in shape is inexcusable. When guys like Kobe, AB, and even Fish at this stage of his career show up ready to play, what's with LO?

Odom has every opportunity this season to come away with a Championship ring, hold up the trophy, and ride in a parade. But when Phil zaps him with the Zen gun, the guy goes into episodic hissy fits.

I say, "Man up, Lamar. Do whatever you're called on to do for your team. No whining. No pouting. This time around, no more games where you disappear, lost in time and space, somewhere in the Twilight Zone. No more post-game locker room interviews after a loss (the very few!) where you say 'we just didn't play well' when the 'we' means you. Play better! Yes, Lamar. Man up. Earn every penny, every game."

Why am I being so hard on LO? As previously noted, the guy is a triple double waiting to happen. He just isn't always committed to being the best he can be. At least until now. "You can do it, Lamar." Go Lakers!

AK,

>>>>>Personally, the money isn't an issue to me. For starters, everyone in the NBA
>>>>>makes such astronomical salaries nowadays that you can make an argument
>>>>>that they're all overpaid. Plus, we're now entering Lamar's fifth season.
>>>>>The contract is what it is. And most importantly, I consider any athlete's salary
>>>>>to be sunken costs and because of that, him getting paid "X" amount of dollars
>>>>>should never dictate his role. The only thing worse than Lamar Odom overpaid
>>>>>(if that's how you view him) is him overpaid and used incorrectly in an effort
>>>>>to somehow "justify" or "earn" the check. If his most effective use comes as
>>>>>reliable fourth option (as opposed to a wildly inconsistent #2) or an unusually
>>>>>well-compensated sixth man, so be it. The money stays the same no matter what,
>>>>>so you might as well get the best bang for your buck, as opposed to trying for
>>>>>the "most" bang in terms of sheer numbers.

Excellent points, Andy, especially the part about using the player incorrectly to try and get your money’s worth. In general, I agree with you with a couple of minor exceptions.

First, the money does make a difference because now it is easier to imagine Lamar accepting a new contract for around $8M, for example, since that is not anywhere near as big a drop from $11M as it would be from $14M. This validates the idea that Lamar may be with the team long term and thus the team may be willing to give him more rope and playing time. If the team did not see any way of keeping Lamar, then they might game plan him out of the starting lineup in anticipation of trading him and wanting to give Ariza a chance to show he can start at the 3.

Second, because the Lakers are in the luxury tax area, every dollar less they have to pay in salary saves them another dollar in tax, which means that the $3M difference is really a $6M difference. This could help keep Lamar from being a luxury tax victim like Ronny was. Were the Lakers not in the luxury tax, they would undoubtedly been more willing to keep Ronny.

But otherwise, you are right. Salaries get left in the locker room when the team takes the court.
Wonder if Marc Cuban agrees with you considering Jason Kidd. LOL.

Tom

LT,

That's a good point about the luxury tax. I was thinking about this more in terms of each salary in a bubble, as opposed to how they affect the cap. But either way, it would be hard to argue that statement.

AK

Keep in mind that the market is inflated. I mean where else can an Okafor get paid like he did. Or Deng?

Not to mention Luke Walton lol.

But I think a large percentage of his "earlier" paycheck was on potential alone. Unfortunately we know now that it doesn't pan out.

Consider this though...Kwame Brown (whom I actually like but come on), was earning 9 million. Compare that to LO who is heads and shoulders better? Then with that comparison, LO earns his 11 million. But now that Kwame is earning 2? Well then you can argue that LO is worth a lot less than 11.2.

Personally I'd prefer to pay him somewhere around 7 mil. And even that is kind of unfair considering Luke is earning 5 mil (maxes out at 6!).

AK,

Yes, the $$ matters. Why? Because of salary cap and
delusions of grandeur. If you're going to talk like an
all-star and want $$ like an all-star you have to play
like an all-star and he hasn't.

Blitz,

you wrote:

Hobbit don't rub it in lol.

I did say Trevor will improve the jump shot while you said "If and only if" so that gives me a point.

in any case, at least the long season is over don't you agree?

my response: *chuckle*. Yes, you get a point.
Glad the long season is over. Learned some things from
you.

Let's go Lakers!

Hobbitimage,

"Yes, the $$ matters. Why? Because of salary cap and
delusions of grandeur. If you're going to talk like an
all-star and want $$ like an all-star you have to play
like an all-star and he hasn't."

As I told Laker Tom, I was thinking about these salaries being judged individually in a bubble or, at worst, dictating how a player is used. As opposed to how they affect the payroll. Along those lines, I totally agree with you.

As for the other part, LO has talked about wanting to play like an All-Star, not that he actually is an All-Star and should be treated as such. There's a big difference. And the money being paid is as much (arguably more) about what a team is willing to pay him. Most people don't say, "Shut up! I'm not worth that much!" Plus, Miami gave him that contract, not L.A. Unless you think LO doesn't care about "earning" his keep (and I personally think he does), I don't think that really applies to him.

AK

Interesting topic and correction of apparent misinformation.

I find 11 and change way easier to swallow for Odom. Based on how he's played, I'd say he's worth 9, maybe 10 on the high side. I still feel he's overpaid, but I feel a lot better about it.

He gets this one last chance to perform when it matters most. I hope he does. No smoking weed during the playoffs.

Faith,

Kwame's actually making 4 mil, not 2. But your general point about inflation still makes sense. If anything, because Kwame is making 4. haha

AK

It does make a difference, because it affects the team's ability to sign other players.

Of course, that also means that he won't bring as much in a trade if they try to make one mid-season.

There you go lol.

I'm tired of people complaining about Lamar's salary. First of all, WE don't pay him, it's Dr. Buss, so if he can pay the money and luxury tax so be it. Secondly, there are a lot worst examples of overpaying. Stephon Marbury I think makes 20 mil a year, Shaq as well. Chris Webber in his last year as a Sixer made 21 mil a year. Andris Biedrins I think got a something like 70 mil for 5 years. Bogut I think got more. Odom is a very good player. Even if he is the fourth or third option (like last year), if he contributes what a good 2nd option would, what's everyone's problem. When Gasol came to the team last year, Odom's production rose, even though he was the "third option." This 2nd, 3rd, 4th option thing is only a classification, anyway. But it that is what Odom psychologically to play at his best level, then fine. So everyone just be thankful we are going to see this great team play (and that includes Odom), and that the season begins soon.

Faith,

What a beautifully written piece!! Words are inadequate to describe the sheer brilliance of the argument you presented in your post. The concise language and the comparative value you applied to L.O's contract as it related to other Lakers.........simply exquisite!

But Faith you didn't stop there....no you didn't. You saved the best for last.......your Coup de grace was to invoke the salary of LUKE WALTON.........how did you put it?

"Personally I'd prefer to pay him somewhere around 7 mil. And even that is kind of unfair considering Luke is earning 5 mil (maxes out at 6!)".

Faith I almost fell out of my chair when you said Luke would max out @ 6Mil...........Hey Faith, If Luke is making 6Mil and NOBODY is complaining (or writing blog entries) is it possible for ANYBODY to be overpaid??LOL

Faith,

Your reminder that Kwame was making $9M and Luke is making $5M going on $6M suggests that Lamar isn't overpaid, after all.

Hey, Lamar. I'm sorry. And, sure -- keep the change.

Mitch K, w/ PJ and the Buss family meeting on Odom's case, here's their discussion: what are we going to do with this player? Old man says: "light up his butt or ship him out now, can't afford him". Then, the young Jimbo quips: "too premature at this time, let's see what he can do but how?" He seemed not to be ready and it's already preseason. We have Drew, Kobe and Pau on aboard. PJ defends Odom and gave assurance to owners and management, "let me handle him, I will set up the situations and see if the experiment works".

I think PJ is on his side. He's delivering the message from the old man that he is the odd man on the scheme of things. They placed their bets on Drew, Kobe is given and Pau is a keeper, however the Buss Family cannot afford additional luxury taxes in an economic turmoil, in fact they're not sure whether they could meet their financial goals this season. If Odom's 14M salary is equivalent to additional 5M luxury taxes in '09 therefore his re-signing should generate additional 25m in revenues to make it feasible. Unfortunately, it's hard to quantify a direct costing contribution of one player, it has to be Championship or Odom is busted. Another way, Odom has to step up and becomes ala' Magic or Scottie he becomes a gold standard to precious to sell at this time even w/o championship. If Odom remains as merely the Odom we knew before, an inconsistent dude with no fire in defense, then he follows Kwame's path. This is all about Odom and PJ is just the pitcher.

I hope Odom should be a businessman, a consciencious veteran and could pick up what PJ is doing for him.

Lamar is worth every penny he's one of those guys who stuck around for us in those dark days and i'm pretty darn happy that he's still here in the soon to be happy times lamar is such a good guy he's our micheal finley with less scoring who will soon to get a ring yes lamar is inconsistent in scoring but getting offensive boards and finding his teammates is his thing so this year we will see him do more of that equalling in to LAMAR ODOM raising hell this season

LET HELL BE RAISE LAKERS!!!

GO LAKERS!!!

GO MAMBA!!!

GO ODOM!!!

Dodgers moves on, as the Cubs' Curse continues. Congratulations Joe Torre & the Dodgers!

Hmmm... trying to wrap my head around the bubble context and it's making my brain hurt. Every argument I start to come up with has some team-based component and there's such a disparity between minimum and maximum salaries that it gets kind of hard to view "worth" in a vacuum. Does that make any sense?

The league average salary is somewhere around 5 and a half million and if that's a yardstick for worth (and ignoring bugets and cap and all that), I guess I'd value Odom at around 8 mil? Oh wait, was I not supposed to take average salary into account either?

Dodgers just won - awesome.

Faith:

Nice post.

Even I was among the people who thought Lamar Odom was overpaid at $11 Million. I just hope still Lamar plays well and helps us win the championship and if possible reduce his salary and remain a Laker.

Always keep the Faith I guess

Thanks,

-blitz

AK:

In the first sentence of your post, I believe that the word you are looking for is commensurate, not commiserate. Is that not correct?

Late Night Reader

. Jackson said Kobe Bryant, who decided against having surgery for a torn ligament in his right pinkie, has not "been shooting the ball well" in practice, but that his "game speed is there.
Thanks Kobe for being selfish and not having the surgery done on your pinkie.

Odom is only making 11.4 million in respect to the money that he gets from the Lakers this season. I know that sounds like a strange statement, but in the weird and wonderful world of the CBA, it actually means something.

When the Lakers payroll is calculated to determine whether or not they are over the cap, and by how much, he's making $14.1 million.

When the Lakers luxury tax bill is being calculated, he's making $14.1 million.

If Odom is traded this season, he's considered a $14.1 million player, not an $11.4 million player.

i just want to put this in writing.

my ex was the biggest cubs fan ever. most of my friends are as well. We all went to vanderbilt.

Thank you, Vanderbilt.

Thank you, dodgers. I have bragging rights for the rest of my life. Although the lakers lost, this makes up for it more than life myself. My parents have my tickets to the NLCS. Go blue. Thank you for everything.

and, of course, thank you AK + BK. Satco is on me, next time we are all @ VU.

AK,

I try to get people to understand that money if pro sports is like monopoly money. Its not real in the sense that we see money. It is very rarely about what a player is worth contribution wise and moreso about the market at the time the contract is signed and how quality of an agent you have in terms of negotiating said contratct. For the work and effort it takes to persevere and make it to the NBA, they are all worth their salaries. The work, intangiblies and undoubtedly, the loyalty the Lakers have received from one Lamar Odom, makes his contract a small price to pay to have him on our team. Remember this is a guy who lost his infant daughter during a summer just prior to an NBA season and never used it as an excuse and went out to perform his job daily. An excuse that no one would have been able to fault him for. I'd hate to see this team lose Lamar Odom. He is like Derek Fisher in that he is the absolute kind of player you want to see around the league. And has he not contributed, despite his consistencies, season in and season out since coming to LA. So, I think in the land of fake money, 11.4 mil is a small price to pay for a player who brings everything to the table that Lamar does and has. Futhermore, I've never understood the concept of thinking someone else is overpaid, you're sayiing you dont want to make as much money as you possibly can, no matter how much or little you do. I know i do. Overpay me, please!!!!!!!!!!!

Late Night Reader,

Thanks for the pickup. I think this was one of those cases where I had it spelled incorrectly and I didn't pay enough attention to the suggestions. Either way, appreciate it.

AK

AK I couldn't agree more...players salaries are players salaries and should no way affect the game itself.Some will be overpaid and some will be underpaid.Keep the two issues seperate.Do what you have to do to get a team on paper then play basketball.

I guess certain players are used differently based on the type of commitment or investment the team has in them or if they want play them so they can trade them or something but for the most part its getting a basketball team on paper then making it work to win games... irrespective of money.

There is a big difference between the figures $14 mil and 11 mil and depending on how you look at it Lamar may or may not be overpaid...he's probably not a bargain even at $11 mil but whatever the case he's not wildly overpaid and certainly not an albatross.Its not really worthy of much 'overpaid' discussion when you actually look at what goes on around the league and that was probably true when we thought he was making $14 mil too.

Paying roughly the same amount for two small fowards who wont be playing much is a definite problem but Lamar is a genuine player and we'd be worse without him.

The question really is 'Can you get more or at least a more suitable player for your 11 mil?' - if you CAN you trade him - if you CAN'T then you keep him.I dont think his contract can be considered untradeable.It might be too much for a fourth option if you have to compromise too much eslewhere but for most of his tenure on the lakers Lamars role and number have justified that kind of money.

As it is having him appears to be a luxury (one that we might not have after this season becasue someone will probably offer him a figure within that ballpark for his services again) but sure, if he and his 11 mil arent the best way to field the best team then they need to look at alternatives and I suppose thats what the lakers will be doing.

If having him as a sixth man is the most effective way of using him the thats what we should do.If he doesnt like it then I guess we will have to trade him because for that money you should do what your told at least.

Thats what I think about Luke Walton or Radmanovic for example....its like 'fine you've got your contract,youve signed it and now we can use you how we see fit' if you dont like it you dont have to resign again when your contracts up...furthermore if you were worried about what was going to happen regarding your role then you didnt need to sign for an extended period of time.

Not that I'm implying Luke has a problem but in general theres alot of misunderstanding regarding players contracts.They want it every which way.This was one of my main arguments with the kobe debacle last year.Its a business where situations change quickly and there are no promises regarding playing time,team success or even that you won't be playing for the Bucks or Bobcats by next week and thats part of the reason they get paid so much in the first place.

AK,

you wrote: Unless you think LO doesn't care about "earning" his keep (and I personally think he does), I don't think that really applies to him.

my response: If Lamar cared about "earning" his keep
would he have spent the summer lounging on the beach
with Corona's [ if that's his preference ] ? Would he have
worked on his jumper like Trevor Ariza? Would he have
done what the Lakers/PJ asked him to do in terms of
getting his body right?

Note the difference b/n Vlad and Lamar in terms of
acceptance about what role he will play. Note the
difference b/n Lamar and the guys looking to make
the team in terms of hunger. Note the difference in
professionalism b/n Lamar and Derek.

As I recall, here is a rough paraphrase of Lamar's quote
about being a Laker: I think I've played well enough. I
deserve to be a Laker.

In *my* opinion, that is not the attitude of a champion. That
is not the attitude of someone trying to win a championship.
He's gone from being the #2 option to the #5 option in 6
mos and it all comes back to not working on his game
in the off season. 11 mil is too much for that type of
player. At least it is if I'm writing the check. I'd rather get
someone from the ndbl and give him to Kareem for a year
at the cost of 3 mil and see what happens.

Lamar, I hope you've got a set of long tweezers because
I'd guess you're ridin' pine by the end of the season.

btw ...

Said Mihm: "I relish whatever my role is going to be. Obviously I want to be as big a part of this team as I can be. My ego is in check. I can handle whatever role I'm going to have to take."

Is Lamar's ego in check?

Josh Powell is a beast on the backboards.

After four days of practice, Powell has attacked the basketball relentlessly.

"That's something that I felt I was capable of doing, rebounding," Powell said recently. "It's just trying to out-work anybody on both ends. It's just effort. It's just bringing the energy."

Does anyone honestly believe that Lamar is trying to
out-work anybody on both ends?

I find it *VERY* curious that we're hearing so many
positive things about so many players who aren't
named Lamar. Perhaps that's an overstatement.
Let's try this differently. The leader of the team, Kobe,
came into camp in game shape. After winning an
Olympic Gold. his shooting appears to be off, but
does anyone want to bet that he won't make his
shots when the season starts?

Pau is playing great. Bynum is hungry and shooting for
an all-star bid from jump street. Mihm is healthy and
his ego is in check. Vlad's ego is in check. Trevor
worked on his jump shot and is healthy. Powell is
trying to out-work everyone.... And Lamar
did *NOT* do what the Lakers asked him to do over
the summer .....

AK,

Sticking to the structure of your scenario, I think 11 is about right given the inflated market overall in the nba.

Luke blogs about Kobe, what it is to play with him and how hard he practices: http://tinyurl.com/3nav4z .

Come on you guys. Lamar has played HUGE MINUTES for us over the last two years. He played more than KOBE did. Let's remember that Lamar played PF on the first AND second team units.

If he wanted to take some down time and spend some "quality minutes" with his family, I say go for it. If any year he had the window available to do that it is this year. YES, yes, we are expecting a championship this year, I know. However, you can also argue that less will be required of him night after night this year than in years past. Therefore, he saw the window and took it! Let's not forget that his family went through a tragic loss not so long ago and they may have different needs than we can understand.

As far as the money goes, Lamar can only be himself. He does NOT have Kobe's wiring and no amount of prodding can make him develop it! Therefore, I say we take what Lamar can give as that is where true long lasting motivation comes from, within. He will also want to be there for his teamates. He will NOT want to let us down. In my opinion, Lamar earns his money starting OR coming off the bench. I feel that strongly about the guy.

I have confidence that he can contribute as a 3rd and 4th option scorer and expend more energy on defense, I look forward to alot more quality games from Lamar. Simply put, we MAY not need a healthy and strong Lamar until the playoffs. Heck, Phil has always had that mindset anyway (Robert Horry anyone?). We can get away with it more this year than any in recent memory.

Lamar said he needed the down time to cool off some of the aches he has going on. I believe him and I will make room for it in my expectations of the guy. Later in the year when we are screaming for more from Lamar, let's all remember that he took some personal time for himself, and now he can step up for us "When Needed". Works both ways for me. I don't think he'll let us down.

Ahh... AK, you are really stoking the fire of Laker Nation, aren't you?

No. Lamar Odom is not worth 11.4 million dollars. He is overpaid, but not terribly overpaid. I'd say he's worth approximately 9.5 million.

How do I know that? Because in my spare time I'm the General Manager of multiple professional sports franchises.

GO LAKERS!

Here's the thing...

If the lameass Knicks can grossly overspend on terrible players, well, I'm A-OK with the Lakers overspending on good and great players.

I don't give a damn about the salary cap. Dr. Jerry Buss is a billionaire and the Lakers are consistently profitable.

If the Lakers lose $10 million a year (which they don't and won't), then Dr. Jerry Buss will be broke in a 100 years.

In the meantime, if we win 100 Championships over the next 100 years due to overpaying, well, I, personally, think that's more valuable than the Buss family transforming itself into a multi-generational aristocratic dynasty.

Just win, baby! That's all that matters.

GO LAKERS!

AK

Yes, that makes a difference. He was one of 2 at 14 mil to not make an all star team. He undoubtedly has a lot of company at 11 mil in that stat.

BTW: you and BK have definitely upped your video game. The latest Dodger piece is another step up in a soon to be prime time move to the bigs. Not that this isn't the bigs...
Well done.

The $14.1M is still the significant number. When you have a limited budget to achieve a goal, you need to make sure the money is spent wisely on each thing so that you have enough left over to get whatever else you need.

So, what the market dictates as a player's worth has to be weighed against what they are worth to a particular team. It's the GM's job to assess that. When you budget for anything else in the world, you start with categories/needs and fill in what you have to spend on that particular thing. When you're building a house and a certain type of flooring is too expensive, you go with a less expensive type so you have enough left over to spend on fixtures.

LO isn't worth $14M or $11M to THIS team. He's worth less. Until he plays like he's worth more.

Johnvallefuoco,

Excellent empathetic post for LO. I hope you're on target!

>>>First, the money does make a difference because now
>>>it is easier to imagine Lamar accepting a new contract
>>>for around $8M

Good news. Thats what I've been saying they should offer
him for an extension all along. Something like 4 or 5 years starting
at 8 and ending at 11 or 12. I don't know if he'd go for it, but
at that level of money, it would be worth keeping him.

I still don't know if he'd take it, or if he feels he's worth a
contract starting in the neighborhood of 12 mil, but I honestly
like Lamar and think he could contribute to several championships.

One other question though. Does his actual salary apply for
trade value? Or is it his cap hold? In other words, if the
Lakers go to trade him, does he count as 11.4 million salary
going out or 14.1 million?

exhelodrvr,

>>>Of course, that also means that he won't bring as
>>>much in a trade if they try to make one mid-season.

A. I'm not sure about that, and...

B. That's not such a bad thing.

I asked in a previous message whether it's his actual salary
or his cap hold that counts in trades. I'm pretty familiar with
the CBA, but that's a question that really stumps me. AK?
BK?

But actually, if he only counts for 11.4 in trade value, that's
better for the Lakers. They're so far into luxury tax that any
trade that reduces their salary burden and frees up more
money to pay the young-uns (Bynum, Farmar, maybe Ariza
and Yue) is a good thing.

Whether that happens because Lamar is willing to re-sign
for a deal starting around 8 million or because they trade
him for someone who only makes 8 million and is as productive
is irrelevant.

At 14.1 million, Lamar is difficult to trade, because it's hard
to match that much salary with just expiring contracts and
players that make around half that much, which is ideally
what you want.

At 11.4 million, it's a little easier. That means the minimum
salary they'd have to match would be a little over 9 million.
So what sort of trades does that make possible that aren't
possible if he counts as 14.1 million?

Lamar for Gerald Wallace, straight up.

Lamar for Kirk Hinrich or Andres Nocioni, straight up.

Lamar for Tayshaun Prince, straight up.

Lamar for Marcus Camby, straight up.

Lamar for Mike Miller, straight up.

Lamar for Stromile Swift (6 million expiring) 1 young big
(Sean Williams? Brook Lopez? Yi Jianlian?) and Jersey's
2010 first round pick (to replace the one we gave to Memphis.

Lamar and Radmanovic or Walton for Shawn Marion

Lamar for David Lee and Jared Jeffries

Lamar for Shane Battier and Chuck Hayes or Carl Landry

Basically, there are a lot of players in the 6-to-9 million
range, and if Lamar only counts as 11.4 million, then you
only need to add 1 player to match, as opposed to adding
2 or 3 players to match 14.1 million.

Jon K,

>>>Dr. Jerry Buss is a billionaire

That's a common misconception. He's not. In fact, he's one
of the less-affluent owners in the NBA.

http://hoopshype.com/owners/jerry_buss.htm

That's why he can't afford for the Lakers to bleed away money,
like the Knicks do. Yes, he'll pay luxury tax to put a good
team together, but I don't think you'll ever see him running
up 100 million in team salary like the Knicks do.

Millionaires (and billionaires for that matter) don't get to that
level by mis-managing their money.

Its that time of the year again. Times to play in the yearly YAHOO FANTASY BASKETBALL!! Hope we have as much fun as last year. Sign up now before its full.

*******************************************
*************************
ID - 38535
PW - kobe

http://basketball.fantasysports.yahoo.com/nba

>>>Yes, that makes a difference. He was one of 2 at 14
>>>mil to not make an all star team. He undoubtedly has a lot
>>>of company at 11 mil in that stat.

Well, in addition to Bibby, that adds in these players who will
make over 11 million next season and have never made the all star team:

Jason Richardson
Larry Hughes
Al Jefferson
Zach Randolph
Andre Iguodala
Raef La Frentz
Monta Ellis

I think odds are pretty good that Ellis, Igoudala, and Jefferson
will eventually make the All-Stars. But even so, that makes
a total of 9 guys paid over 11 million who have never made
the All-Star game. And in every case, it was because the
team that gave them the contract saw the potential that
they WOULD be an All-Star caliber player. With some guys
it just doesn't pan out that way.

If the SUNS can get MATT BARNES for the vet minimum and have similar production from him as Lam-Od will give this year, that's a good comparison.

It'll be especially true should BARNES start and Lam-Od come off the bench.

Before you throw some stats at me in outrage, remember that BARNES will get more minutes under Porter than he did under Nelson. I would be surprised if him and Lam-Od don't play very similar minutes.

Or let me put it this way - what is Posey making? If Posey and Lam-Od traded places, I'd be worried about the SUNS facing the lakers this season.

Whether or not LO is worth his salary depends on which LO you are talking about.

Pre-Gasol, I might have said LO was not worth it. But post-Gasol LO was a different player. He consistently, yes consistently scored decent numbers and led the squad in rebounds.

During the finals, he only showed up for one quarter. The shadow with LO's jersey didn't deserve more than other role players. But the LO that showed up for that quarter was worth way more.

As per his attitude, LO consistently said he realized how rare an opportunity getting deep into the playoffs was. He seemed to really want the trophy. I don't doubt that. He is, however, a reticent guy by nature. To expect him to be Ronny or Kobe is to ask him to be yet another LO.

Final analysis: I don't think the salary or contract situation will make him play harder. I think he wants to be great. He doesn't think he can be an all-star. But his post - Gasol playing was very valuable. He is a Lakers star. And this year I hope he can drag that status into the finals, be the big difference and make the doubters doubt themselves.

GOOOooooOOOO LAKERS!!!!

THE TIMES THEY ARE A-CHANGIN’…

Maybe it’s just the perspective of an old man, but doesn’t it seem as if the speed of change in everything that impacts our daily lives is accelerating? I mean, the changes we have celebrated and endured during this past year have been nothing short of tumultuous, both with our beloved Lakers and the NBA as well as our normally stable everyday lives.

One year ago right now, the Lakers were in total disarray with Kobe demanding a trade, the financial markets were flying high, and politics were the last thing on people’s minds. Today, the Lakers are the envy the entire NBA, Kobe is the reigning regular season MVP, the financial markets have crashed, and politics has been banned on the Lakers Blog.

One year ago right now, Andrew Bynum was the butt of Kobe’s parking lot home video, Kwame Brown was our starting center, and Pau Gasol was stuck in Memphis. Now the Lakers are the pre-season favorites, Kobe Bryant led Team USA to the gold in Beijing, and Andrew Bynum is completely recovered and bigger and better than last year.

And despite winning the Western Conference, the Lakers roster continues to evolve, losing Ronny Turiaf and Ira Newbie but adding Sun Yue and Josh Powell and getting back Andrew Bynum and Trevor Ariza. Now the coaches and players are experimenting and trying to determine the optimum starting lineup and rotations

The big question of course is what will this next year bring us. The answer obviously is more and more change, starting with Kobe Bryant reprising his Team USA leadership role, Andrew Bynum becoming the dominant center in the NBA, Pau Gasol returning to the All-Star game, and the Lakers winning the NBA championship. And of course, renewed stability and energy in our economy, a peaceful departure from Iraq, and a new President and direction for the United States.

The Times They Are A-Changin’ Faster and Faster…

Tom

I'm wondering how the current financial crunch might affect various sports franchises. We can talk about these figures, like 11 million or 14 million... but what happens when an owner has credit line problems and can't meet payroll?

Thought I'd stick my head in to see what's going on.

Since my football team sucks the big one this year (a certain L.A. team that moved to St.L. a while back) the only thing I have to look forward to as far as the NFL is concerned is that the opening day for the Lakers is only a short three weeks away.

I've already started in on my homie-team friends here in Celtic land about their precious team's tumble this year in the East, and their "one year wonder" hold on the O'Brian trophy ending because the Lakers will kick ass this year and into the forseeable future.

Celtics suck.
Red Sox suck.
Patriots suck.

--Milo.

Let's see, how did the Lakers' starting 5 spend their offseason in preparation for a championship run:

Kobe, worked out all summer and reported to camp in top shape.

Pau, worked out all summer and reported in top shape.

Bynum, worked out all summer and reported in top shape.

And then there's Lamar. Coming into not only a year where the team will make a championship run, and a year where he will be playing a new position requiring more agility, foot speed and shooting, but also a contract year. With all of that motivating him, he reports to camp out of shape after a summer of "chllin" on a beach.

So, no, $11 million doesn't change the equation at all. He's grossly overpaid and his salary should not be used as a reason to play him more minutes than someone else (Ariza) who is better at the SF position....

Fish, not sure, but if history is any guide, worked out all summer and reported in top shape.

Whoever Posted That Link About Jerry Buss's Net Worth,

Thanks.

GO LAKERS!

AK,

After thinking a little and reading the various responses to the thread question, I think it definitely is an important distinction that works to both the Lakers’ and Lamar’s benefit.

First, $11M actual salary does make it more likely that the Lakers will be able to get Lamar to accept $8M or $9M on a new contract than if he was actually pulling down $14M. Lamar as a 4th to 6th option at $8M to $9M would be a good deal, even as just a backup power forward to allow Pau to backup Drew. The $14M is not a big issue because the Lakers are still paying Drew under his rookie contract this year but next year, Lamar would need to take a big cut to remain, even if the team won it all this year. The $11M actual salary helps this situation.

Second, the $14M salary cap figure helps the Lakers because it increases the value of his expiring contract and means that teams looking to reduce salaries can send the Lakers more value in contracts in the trade. And the $11M actual salary means that a team trading for Lamar would have an easier time re-signing him if that is what they chose to do. The $14M actual salary helps this situation.

Of course, Lamar needs to show how valuable he is to this team. That means the boards and defense, which means power forward coming off the bench and not starting small forward. If Lamar plays big enough, the $3M difference between his actual and book salary may be enough to keep him in purple and gold if we win the championship.

Tom

Hi Andy and Brian,

I'd like to propose a few topic suggestions as we head into the first pre-season game on Tuesday.

1. With Kobe expected to play diminished minutes this season,whom do the Lakers expect the replacement scoring from?
2. What's the update on Sasha's ankle?
3. Who's been the biggest, most pleasant surprise in camp, so far?
4. Not a peep written (that I've seen) about Jordan Farmar. Any signs that he's bulked up, worked on his shot or defense?
5. Any comments from Pau about his determination to play with the same intensity as he did for Spain in the Olympics?

Thanks.

The Portland Owner is LOADED, 20 billion. Rockets, Spurs owners "only" 80 million. When did Shaq get a 200 million dollar contract? How many years was it for?

It was actually Dr Evil..not austin powers.

By

Yes we may only be paying Lamar 11 mil but he still does count as 14 mil against the cap. Thats how the consfusion began in the first place. The trade kicker was spread out over the years. That is what raised his cap number to 14 mil. If we were going to trade him we would still need to recieve 75% of that 14 Mil in return just like before.

MH

i don't think he's particularly over-paid. i was thinking all along that he's worth about $10 million. getting lamar, at the end of his contract at 11.4 is very reasonable.

people are forgetting what he's done for the Lakers. people only see that this year he will be (most-likely) 4th option. (although you never know, he could wind up playing better than Bynum or Gasol, and be 2nd option again, yet that may not be likely).

i agree with Najja and John. LO has been with the Lakers during a dark period full of injuries, mind you. he did his best, gone to war with Kobe & co., and was basically our best big man (who i'm sure would much rather slash to the basket, than post-up back to the basket).

as for not working out, all we know is he reportedly had tendinitis or something, and he thought the best way to treat it would be to stay off of it. i assume he was working out before that occurred. he's no shaq. when has LO ever shown up to camp out of shape before? never that i can recall. so, i'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

Some first Pre Season Games:

http://tinyurl.com/44lfwd

Former Laker Ronny Turiaf has 6 points, 7 rebounds 7 assists. Not bad maybe Don Nelson's offense could be the system that he would best fit in. If he really wanted to try it in the Bay Area, we could have tried a trade maybe.

-blitz

Ryan,

"It was actually Dr Evil..not austin powers."

Thank you for pointing that out. Embarrassing space out on my part. Appreciate the pickup.

AK

Rick-

To answer a few of those, Sasha's ankle is still sore, but according to PJ there isn't swelling. I'm sure they'll be very conservative with him. He's on the floor adn working, but that doesn't necessarily mean they'll have him push in early preseason games. Better safe than sorry.

I wouldn't classify what they're doing with Kobe as "diminished minutes," at least not in any way that would have a profound effect on scoring. Last year, he played a tick under 39 minutes a game. My guess is they'll look to shave that down maybe two minutes a night, so he averages closer to 37. Remember too, that if they're able to sit Kobe more, it means they're winning, and if it's down the stretch in the fourth, by a reasonable margin. There really isn't much slack to be picked up, so to speak. That said, they expect to have a lot of ways to put the ball in the basket, from Kobe to Pau to Drew to LO, and guys like Fish, Farmar, and Farmar can certainly add points, too.

JF looks a little bigger, and definitely arrived in good shape. Asking him, he spent a lot of time this summer shooting and conditioning, etc. How that translates into defense depends a lot on his work, and also how well the Lakers mesh as a team on that end.

As far as camp surprises, I don't know if they've been there long enough to see any (haha).

I'm sure more will start to play out as the preseason kicks into gear (meaning actual fake games).

BK

I think people should give Lamar a break. Have people forgotten that this is the NBA? This is U.S. American professional sports. Anyone expect exemplary character from these people is insane. We can (justifiably) whine all we want about how Lamar makes more in a year than most Laker fans will make...well, ever, but the fact is that being wildly overpaid does not help people have better character.

RANT FOLLOWS:

Lamar is not the hardest working guy in the NBA. He never will be. But he's not Kwame Brown either. He's is what he is and that's pretty great. People say he only played well after Pau arrived last season, but he really started to play better for us after the all-star break. The fact of the matter is that he has always played better after the all-star break. Remember when him and Caron and then rookie D. Wade got home court and won a playoff series without a proven star? Dude put up some crazy numbers in some of those games. Should we forget his contributions against the suns in the playoffs? He was great in those series.

Anyway, yeah, he doesn't have the talent to do what Shaq did without the supernal work ethic, but no team in the league has 8 guys who work harder than our projected top 8 in terms of minutes. Which brings us back to Lamar not being the hardest worker in the game. We already have that guy. We should be (and I know many of us are) thanking our lucky stars for that. But not only that, we've surrounded him with gym rats. Seriously a lot of our guys work crazy hard.

Now I'm not going to ask us to pretend to be Knick fans (that's just cruel). But I could conceivably ask us to pretend to be Buck fans or Nets fans or whatever. But I won't. Let's pretend we're Rocket fans for a minute. We're the best team in the league.

Seriously. Right now, before any games have been played, we have as much and probably more talent on paper on our team than anyone. So why is the main feeling that I feel when pretend to be a Rockets fan fear? Fear of injuries? Sure, Rockets have been hit hard, but every team has that problem, the Lakers as much as anyone last season. So what's the problem?

Look at the collective strength of character of the top 8 players on the rockets vs. the top 8 on the Lakers. OK, we've got Yao, and some hard working roll players...and then, well...then the gnawing in the stomach sets in. OK, before that becomes to painful, let's go back to imagining ourselves as Laker fans. Feel the fear dissipate to be replaced by anticipation. (I like to pause and gloat for a moment here but you may have better manners than me...) We know we have the will and the drive to win it all this season. Only Boston can say the same. Everyone else has doubts. Big doubts. In one case, The Big Doubt, but I digress.

END OF RANT.

So, I suppose we can complain about Lamar's off season on a slow news day, but a lot of NBA teams have a really crappy breakdown of talent and hard work combining on their roster.

Seriously if Lamar is our big character weakness, every fan base in the world (in every sport) is begging for our problems. Which I guess they are :)

GO LAKERS!

All NBA players are overpaid , but some are more overpaid than others,Odom is worth 8-10 million for what he provides the lakers, rebounding, some good defense, decent play making and passing skills, not too turn over prone, and with Bynum, Gasol, Kobe and Sasha, he doesn't need to score a lot and he doesn't complain about not getting the ball a lot or having set plays run for him so
all of you bucking for a trade, careful what you wish for

Like what Faith said is Lamar Odom really overpaid?

Ok $11 Million is something that isn't cheap not even to Buss. But compare his salary to other players who aren't in the league's elite:

Stephon Marbury: $21 Million
Larry Hughes: $12 Million
Jason Richardson: $12 Million
Ben Wallace: $14 Million
Erick Dampier: $11 Million
Troy Murphy: $11 Million
Bobby Simmons: $10 Million
Tyson Chandler: $11 Million
Zach Randolph: $14 Million
Samuel Dalembert: $11 Million
Raef LaFrentz: $12 Million
Brad Miller: $10.5 Million
and
Shaq: $21 Million only reason though is that he's in the twilight of career otherwise $21 Million for the Shaq of ages past deserves that much money.

Compare those to Lamar Odom: $11.4 Million

No one except for Jason Richardson and Zach Randolph has scored more points than Lamar. Only Tyson Chandler beats Lamar in rebounding . Only Brad Miller and Stephon Marbury are better than Lamar in terms of assists (and Marbury is a point guard too!). In those numbers, Lamar ranks 3rd in Points, 2nd in Rebounds, and 3rd in Assists out of those lists.

In terms of "clutch", who would we choose to give the ball to at the end of games? I wouldn't give it to any of these guys. So why bag on Lamar about not being "clutch" when guys that are similarly paid are just the same? Having the "warrior" mentality? Understandable as there are two people on the list who have that: Ben Wallace and Shaq. But both are out of their primes and on the decline, Shaq hasn't averaged 10 rebounds the whole season since 04-05 and Wallace didn't average 10 rebounds since his first year in Chicago. Only Zach Randolph is close to Lamar in terms of rebounding and while he did get more points than Lamar, he isn't the passer that Lamar is.

Defense? Probably the only ones who could play better defense at their positions are Tyson Chandler, Samuel Dalembert, Erick Dampier and Shaq. But then again these guys are centers and neither of us would want Lamar to be our guy defending the post. Lamar plays solid defense and while it isn't all defensive team material, it's solid enough not to be embarrassing.

So what other arguments can be said he's overpaid? That he didn't work out in the summer? That is really blown out of proportions:

1) He had tendinitis. He COULD have chosen to get arthoscopic surgery. But he decided to let his knees get extended rest and not have a recovery period that could have forced him to miss some of training camp just like what Kobe did back in 2006.

2) He DID work out in the summer, not as much as PJ would have liked but understandable considering he took rest instead of surgery for tendinitis. After the tendinitis went away he worked out in Las Vegas in late August with Paul Pierce and Baron Davis. Don't believe it?

http://tinyurl.com/57hg89

And considering his production especially from last year, what else could be said? If you say he is inconsistent, probably at best is that he is inconsistent given his talents. Then yes he should be doing better. But inconsistent as in sucking? Get real. Tell me when Luke Walton (5 Million), Radman (6 Million) and Kwa-may Brown ($9 million originally now $4 million which is still being overpaid somewhat) all produce better than Lamar Odom. Otherwise try something else because this overpaid thing is really overblown. Does he need to *earn* that paycheck? Of course as do the Lakers who I think are overpaid worst like Radman and Walton. Just try some other excuse because this is very fun to argue.

-blitz

#1 rebounder, 2nd for steals and assists, 3rd for ppg and fg %. this guy is just dead weight. he needs to be top 3 in blocks(4th), and 3 pt shooting too this next season before we consider resigning him at the vet minimum. and even then he better be working some extra hours cleaning up staples to make it worth our while.

ginobili comes off the bench for the spurs and he is arguably their second best player in the team. Actually, for me, if duncan and ginobili isnt healthy, they're not going to win regradless of how parker is. lamar is our third / fourth best player, i dont see the problem with him coming off the bench, its the guys who finish the games, not the ones who start that matters.

BK, Thanks for the detailed response to my queries. Tuesday night's game is a welcome antidote to the depressing news cycle overwhelming the front pages.

everyone has to stop ripping lamar odom, he is the most versatile player in the world, he can rebound, pass, dunk, shoot, and he will make or break the lakers title run this year.

a healthy & motivated lamar odom is unstoppable, let other teams look down on lamar and he will deliver his message. it will be worth every penny.

PEOPLE... We are starting to get off subject. I am not upset so much about the money. It is his ethic working towards a championship. THE TIME IS NOW!! That window wont be open for long and look how he treats it.

Day of rest

Coach Phil Jackson gave the team a break during training camp, letting them stay home Sunday, the final day of two-a-day practices.

Jackson indicated Saturday he was happy with the players' efforts, particularly in a Friday night scrimmage.

"Everybody worked hard," he said. "My coaches felt that 'Drew [Bynum]played the best that he's performed all week, at least hustle-wise.

"The first unit felt very confident and played well together. Pau [Gasol], particularly, had an impressive practice. His rhythm is there because he's been playing. He just kept it up."

The day off was a tad too late for some players.

After Saturday's morning practice, Odom sauntered up to Jackson and asked if players could skip the night practice.

Jackson smiled, put his hand on Odom's shoulder and said, "No."

Odom smiled back.

"I had to ask," said Odom, a big baseball fan who wanted to watch the Dodgers-Cubs game. "I was just looking out for my guys."

THIS IS A TEST**** THIS IS ONLY A TEST
-----------------------------------------------------------
ROLL CALL”
*
(1) Faith, (1A)Bob, Keifo, Vman. Jay Jay, Charles, Edwin Gueco, Tsiry, Fatty, ……..
ALL TOGETHER NOW:
WE ARE THE FREAKIN LA LAKERS THE WINNERS OF 14 NBA TITLES.
THE TEAM WITH THE BEST WINNING PERCENTAGE IN NBA HISTORY.
THE ONLY TEAM WITH 2 HOF COACHES. THE TEAM WITH THE MOST
PLAYERS ON THE 50 GREATEST PLAYERS OF ALL TIME LIST(6). THE
HOME OF THE REIGNING AND FUTURE MVP – KOBE BRYANT. THE
HOME OF WILT, KAREEM, GEORGE MIKAN, SHAQ, MAGIC, ELGIN BAYLOR,
THE LOGO(JERRY WEST), PAT RILEY, JAMES WORTHY, BOB MCADOO,
"BIG SHOT ROB HORRY" GAIL GOODRICH THE LEGENDARY SPORTSCASTER
CHICK HEARN COACHED BY 9 TIME TITLE WINNER PHIL (9RINGS) JACKSON
& OWNED BY THE BEST D@MN OWNER IN SPORTS DR. JERRY BUSS
AND THE ONLY ONE WHO CAN EVER DEFEAT OR DIVIDE US IS US
LAKERS TODAY LAKERS TOMORROW LAKERS FOREVER
*
This has been a test of your Roll Call Alerting System. Had this been an actual
Roll Call You would have been instructed to put on your Game Day faces, Get
your Popcorn and get ready for another Devastating Laker win.
THIS CONCLUDES THE TEST OF THE ROLL CALL SYSTEM

*__________________*
Give L.O. Less Dough
BANDWAGON
*------------------------------*
(01) Rick Friedman - . He just isn't always committed to being the best he can be.
(02) LakerTom - Salaries get left in the locker room when the team takes the court.
(03) Faith - Personally I'd prefer to pay him somewhere around 7 mil
(04) HobbitMage - If you're going to talk like an all-star and want $$ like
an all-star you have to play like an all-star and he hasn't.
(05) Benjamin - No smoking weed during the playoffs
(06) TheKobeBryantBlitz - Even I was among the people who thought Lamar Odom was overpaid
(07) Lakers Sth - LO isn't worth $14M or $11M to THIS team. He's worth less.
(08) Jon K. - No. Lamar Odom is not worth 11.4 million dollars. He is overpaid
(09) Leo - . He's grossly overpaid

*__________________*
Give L.O. The Dough
BANDWAGON
*------------------------------*
(01) Mamba24 – He’s Lamar Odom and you’re not B#tch.
(02) Laker Hopeful - I'm tired of people complaining about Lamar's salary
(03) HellRaiser(certified MambaFan) - Lamar is worth every penny
(04) Najja aka Bonus - For the work and effort it takes to persevere and make it to the NBA,
they are all worth their salaries.
(05) Laker Kev - I think 11 is about right given the inflated market overall in the nba.
(06) JohnValleFuoco - Come on you guys. Lamar has played HUGE MINUTES for us over the last two years.
(07) JohnnyP - Whether or not LO is worth his salary depends on which LO you are talking about.
(08) Justin - i don't think he's particularly over-paid.
(09) Cameron - I think people should give Lamar a break

Dollars in the NBA are difficult to compare. In any given offseason players go for wages that the market allows.
What was Lamar worth to Miami the year they signed him to this contract? He was perfect for them and the style they were playing.
What was unloading Shaq worth to LA? Lamar was perfect for us, considering Buss wasn't going to pay Shaq and we needed a trade.
Last summer the free agency market was kind of weak. After Baron Davis and Elton Brand, there wasn't a whole lot of talent out there. In a summer like that, LO could have pulled a nice contract, perhaps bigger than what he has now.
He'll be a free agent next summer. If D'Antoni and Donnie Walsh clear enough cap space, i bet LO gets another large contract, and he'll be worth it.
The Lakers run a set offense a vast majority of the time. LO doesn't necessarily excel in set offenses. But, even at his current pay, he's been "worth" every dime, because you can't look at what your paying a guy today, you have to value a guy based on what you had to pay when you got him. And for LA, we got away from Shaq and his ego, and you can't put a value on that.

dave-

There's a tendency among fans to focus on what Lamar doesn't do, rather than what he does. After Gasol came over last year and the pressure to be a number two scorer was removed, LO flourished. He's a guy who does a lot of things well, and as long as you don't expect him to shoot a lot and score a ton, can make many positive contributions. Fortunately, the last thing this team needs is another high profile player who wants points.

LO will likely take a pay cut no matter where he goes, and certainly if he stays here. I don't see anyone giving him the money he's making now for a long stretch- but you never know. His play this season will certainly impact that. The fitness thing is something to keep an eye on- no question, he didn't look lean and mean coming in, and while there are some reasons for it, it's reasonable to question exactly how much time LO spent getting ready. Fair enough. Personally, I'm going to wait until the season starts before I make sweeping judgments on him.

Argue if you'd like about his effectiveness, but LO leaves it on the court. He works hard, plays in pain, and takes his team losing very personally, often taking the blame himself for team losses. Once they get going, he's still very likely to be a 35mpg+ guy, and whatever "controversy" we're seeing now won't be a problem.

BK

All Rise! Hey Fam...

blitz,

"So what other arguments can be said he's overpaid?"

How about he's one week into the season and he's already asked for a practice off so he can go watch a baseball game?

I love Lamar, but he's overpaid.

Lamar Odom = Laker for Life.

GO LAKERS!

Good morning Mamba24, Charles and this fabulous Laker nation morning CRUE!!!!!!

Mamba24 - my heart skipped a beat there! I was all ready for the rest of that roll call brother! But - sadly - we have to wait one more day before we finally get some GAME TIME happening. It's all good though. After this loooonngg dry spell I guess one more day is ok.

Regarding LO, I will add my voice to the "For the love of God stop dumping on LO" bandwagon. The man is all heart and talent. You'll see - this year is the year of the Swiss Army Knife. The Lakers need LO. He's the most versatile player we've got - and that says something when you're on the same team as the Mamba. Of course Kobe's the man, but LO is a vital component of this team, and there is no way we get to play for the title this year without him. Yes - I'm an LO homer and proud of it! Just watch - he will not let us down.

GO LAKERS! (and yes LO = Laker for life)

Nice to see that Ronny is playing well up at Golden State.

GO LAKERS!

Here's the thing that no one wants to talk about...

How are we going to retain everybody? How are we going to be able to afford the financial expense of a Dynasty-building team?

Gasol = Expensive contract
Bryant = We retain him through a max contract.
Bynum = We retain him through a max or near-max contract.
Odom = We retain him through an expensive contract.

Bench = We retain players through mid-level contracts.

Add it all up it ends up being a lot more than the threshold of the luxury tax.

I don't know how we're going to be able to afford this. Unfortunately, the only way we create a Dynasty is keeping everyone together. This lineup is a Dynasty lineup.

GO LAKERS!

I'm glad people are starting to lay off of Odom a little. Kobe will never be Jordan and Lamar will never be Pippen. Lamar is what he is. He is very exciting to watch and brings some versatility to the Lakers.

I don't know why Laker fans always have to point the finger or be mad at someone. Can't we all just be happy with the team? If we start losing, fine lets complain, but at this point we're looking really good and I don't think we should be bashing anyone until a player single handedly loses a game for us.

Lamar = Laker for Life

GO LAKERS

mamba 24

Very wise. Be prepared.

Is the roll called for pre season?

Bloggers should work off the summer rust before they're called to order... or, like Lamar, we could play our way into shape.

Mikeandmike,

It's good to see that Phil is replacing his snarkiness with some positive words.

GO LAKERS!

Mamba24

We are not only the freaking Lakers but also addicted to Lakers.... There you are, the test is working.

Bottom line: We need to find a way to get rid of RadMan.

The dude is pretty much useless to us. He suckers Phil with his mystical shooting every 20th game. All the while his man is burning him or he's doing something stupid.

The Lakers "gamble" on Rad was a bust. We need to try and fix this thing. That's a lot of $$$ to be throwing away like that.

"Space Cadet"?

No.

Gaping hole in our cap SPACE CADET!

Do the right (and ridiculously obvious) thing Mitch, ship this guy out!

And Let's hang that 15th thang!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm from the old school and I feel a player should be paid commensurate with what he does.

I thought at $14 he was overpaid but at $11 million, I think he's paid just right. You could do alot worse with $11 million in the NBA.

People undervalue the glue and dirty work that Odom does for the team. He's worth every penny.

Good Morning Mamba Guy et al..

Good news/Bad news

Good news - Lakers play Tuesday

Bad news - Not on TV in Arizona

Season almost here. Yeah!

Another Bio-Chrono Insight into Lamar Odom...

Lamar Odom is orientated towards the emotional experience of the physical. This means that he is strongly effected by the dialogue between pleasure and pain.

In short, Lamar Odom plays basketball because it is fun for him. He enjoys playing. He derives pleasure from playing.

I remember reading the story about Lamar Odom's mother dying. How did Lamar Odom react? He went out, by himself, in the middle of the night, and shot basketballs for hours.

Why? His whole being was in such pain that he needed to assuage that horrible feeling by doing something that brought him joy... simply playing basketball.

While it's wonderful that basketball is so fundamentally a joyful experience for Lamar, people who are joy/pleasure versus pain orientated often do not have the strongest work ethic. Lamar probably LOVES playing basketball, but doesn't really love practicing. Practice is work and there's not a lot of fun to be had working with a coach barking orders at you. However, PLAYING is FUN!

Playing is major motivator for Lamar. I'm not certain of this, but I bet during those stretches where the Lakers are winning a game that Lamar plays much better than when the Lakers are losing. Why? Winning is more fun than losing. So, if Lamar is having fun, he'll physically respond better. It's just the way he processes things.

I find it interesting that Lamar played with a lot of pain last season. Pain is a very stimulating (both positively and negatively, but primarily negatively) experience for Lamar Odom. These kinds of people often are at their best when they overcome pain. That experience makes them feel powerful. However, long-term pain is usually especially physically dehabilitating for them. Lamar would only be able to overcome something like that due to his creative/spiritual strength which can be used very effectively to "tune out" destructive stimuli.

It will be very interesting to watch Lamar Odom this year. It's a contract year, so it's a big deal for him. I guess he's without pain now which is good and we should be winning a lot of games this year, which is fun, so, maybe Lamar will have a breakout season. There's a lot of factors which support that potential.

We'll see.

Lamar = Laker for Life.

GO LAKERS!

The 08/09 Lakers take the floor for the first time tomorrow night! That's what I'm talking about!

We need to start Odom. If we use him off the bench then all of his atats decline, his trade value decreases in a year that his salery rises. If we end up not trading Odom and he spends an unhappy year coming off the bench he probably won't resign with us at a discount rate. If he doesn't resign, then we loose a very, very talented player without gaining any cap space to re-sign a replacement. We become a much, much weaker team. And then, also, not using the mid level on Posey becomes a HUGE gaff. We loose Odom and a defensive replacement. we could have had for 5 milllion a year.

Wes

Salaries in any company are based on your individual responsibilities with that company.
CEOs make what they make based on their job duties.
IT department worked make what they make based on their responsibilities.
Journalist who run the best blog on the interwebs make what they make based on their job duties. Etc etc.

The same philosophy is applied to professional athletes.
If LO is getting paid 11mil, personally, I expect 11mil worth of statistics, effort, and contributions.

As a company owner if you are not receiving back what you are paying for an employee you either reduce their pay, job title, and responsibility. Or you fire them.
The only difference here is LO's contract was signed by another team, and the contract rules in the NBA force a team to pick-up that already defined contract.

Greg Oden is gonna play tonight vs. The Queens. He rolled his ankle last week, but he's feeling good now.

Can't wait for Andrew to crush him!!!

LET'S GO LAKERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jon K-

I expect Dr. Buss to fork out some dough if the Lakers are winning. All those extra playoff games equal a lot more money for the Lakers and the Buss family. Not to mention the name brand that goes with winning (Lakers are already a global brand) and having players like Gasol and Yue to bring in foreign fans from all over.

Also, I expect Kobe to take a pay cut. If he really is so determined to win (I know he is) then he will see that by taking a pay cut the Lakers will have a better shot of winning. I'm not talking about a monster pay cut but maybe a few mil every year. I don't think Vanessa needs any more jewelry...

Also, I think Odom will for sure take a pay cut. We've been arguing about how much he's worth but I think Lamar and the Lakers will have no problem with a salary in the $9 mil range. Also, Gasol won't be able to ask for a monster salary (gotta give some stuff up if you want to win).

All this will allow the Lakers to pay the young guys who haven't gotten a large salary around, especially Bynum. If Bynum plays well (he will) then he will for sure deserve a huge payday. Also, players like Farmar and Ariza who haven't really ever gotten a decent salary (in NBA terms) will get a MLE.

Pretty much the older, wealthier guys are gonna have to step up and take a little pay cut so the young guys can get theirs. If everyone is as dedicated to winning as they say they are, this should not be a problem.

Lamar = Laker for Life

GO LAKERS

GOOD MORNING CHARLES AND MORNING CRUE!

Bloggers should work off the summer rust before they're called to order... or, like Lamar, we could
play our way into shape. Posted by: Vman | October 06, 2008 at 09:15 AM

I agree I'm doing curls with THE JACKSON JOURNAL as we post. LOL!

What's up Lakerville!
Wow, Mamba, you got me all excited with the ROLL CALL TEST. Glad to see everybody's here and ready to put their game faces on. As for the topic of the day, I like LO. He leaves everything on the floor... he's played with pain... great rebounder... he's a glue guy... THE PACKAGE (aka Swiss Army Knife). Everytime someone criticizes Lamar, I recall that give-and-go that he did so well with Pau last season, where he left his defender way behind and finished strong at the hoop. LO just needs to be consistent. Hopefully, he'll mostly be injury-free this season and do the miriads of things that he always does that lead to a win.

Go Lakers!

We are not only the freaking Lakers but also addicted to Lakers.... There you are, the
test is working.Posted by: Edwin Gueco | October 06, 2008 at 09:45 AM

Thank you sir. Good to see you are alert Edwin. Now stand down soldier

Jon K,

>>>How are we going to retain everybody?

They can't. Or rather, the only way the Lakers can retain
everybody is if everybody is willing to take contracts for
less money, or if Jerry Buss is willing for the Lakers to
lose money in order to pay everybody what they could get
elsewhere.

>>Gasol = Expensive contract

His numbers are locked in for 3 seasons. Can't change them.

>>>Bryant = We retain him through a max contract.

If Kobe wants to keep as much of the team together as
possible, he could opt out and re-sign for a contract that
starts at a lower salary and goes for more years. For
example, he could take 20 million per for 7 years.

>>>Bynum = We retain him through a max or near-max
>>>contract.

Not. Only way Bynum gets a max contract is if they don't
re-sign him this month and he absolutely dominates this
season. Nobody (including the over-the-luxury-tax Lakers)
gives a max contract to an unproven commodity.

>>>Odom = We retain him through an expensive contract.

But not as expensive as you might think. If he's making
11.4 right now, I could see him re-signing with the Lakers
for a multi-year deal starting around 8 or 9.

>>>Bench = We retain players through mid-level contracts.

Ain't going to happen. You saw what happened with Ronny.
Right now, you'd have no problem re-signing Ariza for less
than the MLE, but if he has a good season, then he'll get
offered more. Farmar has already shown enough that
there are teams that would offer him more than an MLE.

But bear in mind that a dynasty doesn't require every player
to stay the same. The Kobe-Shaq dynasty had several players
flow in and out of it. All this team really needs to establish
and keep this dynasty is Kobe, Pau, Bynum, and 2 or 3
guys from Lamar, Fish, Sasha, Jordan, Luke, Rad, and
Ariza.

If any of the main role players leaves, the Lakers will bring
in someone to fill their spot. Ronny left, but Josh Powell
will step in and fill his role. He'll probably be a bit better
than Ronny in some ways and not as good in others. Coby
Karl and Sun Yue are already in the training process to
step in and fill a role in the guard rotation if the Lakers lose
a guard (e.g. if Fish retires or if Jordan gets offered a big
contract that the Lakers are unwilling to match in 2010).

If Lamar has his ego in check next summer when it comes
time for contract negotiations, then maybe Buss will be
willing to stay in luxury tax territory for a few more years
to keep him in the fold. If not, I can't imagine the Lakers
paying Lamar >11 million and up when they have 3 huge
contracts for Kobe, Pau, and Andrew. To be honest though,
I can't imagine any other team offering Lamar a huge contract either.

*__________________*
Give L.O. Less Dough
BANDWAGON
*------------------------------*
(01) Rick Friedman - . He just isn't always committed to being the best he can be.
(02) LakerTom - Salaries get left in the locker room when the team takes the court.
(03) Faith - Personally I'd prefer to pay him somewhere around 7 mil
(04) HobbitMage - If you're going to talk like an all-star and want $$ like
an all-star you have to play like an all-star and he hasn't.
(05) Benjamin - No smoking weed during the playoffs
(06) TheKobeBryantBlitz - Even I was among the people who thought Lamar Odom
was overpaid
(07) Lakers Sth - LO isn't worth $14M or $11M to THIS team. He's worth less.
(08) Jon K. - I love Lamar, but he's overpaid .
(09) Leo - . He's grossly overpaid
*__________________*
Give L.O. The Dough
BANDWAGON
*------------------------------*
(01) Mamba24 – He’s Lamar Odom and you’re not B#tch.
(02) Laker Hopeful - I'm tired of people complaining about Lamar's salary
(03) HellRaiser(certified MambaFan) - Lamar is worth every penny
(04) Najja aka Bonus - For the work and effort it takes to persevere and make it to the NBA,
they are all worth their salaries.
(05) Laker Kev - I think 11 is about right given the inflated market overall in the nba.
(06) JohnValleFuoco - Come on you guys. Lamar has played HUGE MINUTES for us over
the last two years.
(07) JohnnyP - Whether or not LO is worth his salary depends on which LO you are
talking about.
(08) Justin - i don't think he's particularly over-paid.
(09) Cameron - I think people should give Lamar a break
(10) Benny Blanca - , i bet LO gets another large contract, and he'll be worth it.
(11) MrBarneyDangles - we should not be bashing anyone until a player single
handedly loses a game for us.
(12) Bynumite - at $11 million, I think he's paid just right
(13) SamLL - I like LO. He leaves everything on the floor, he's played with
pain..great rebounder, he's a glue guy...

LAMAR ODOM IS not OVER PAID

I could scream it from th heavens if I thought they existed.

First off, this team goes nowhere the last two years without Lamar. His rebounding and solid post D is one of the BIG reasons Bynum had the room to develop as he did. He provided the slack the kid needed. With no Lamar, the pressure falls squarely on Andrew's 18 year old shoulders. With no Lamar, Ronny doesn't have the room to develop into the guy who could make 17 mil. Without Lamar, this Laker team loses a lot of humility and life experience: Nobody else in the NBA has lost family members at the staggering rate that Lamar has. I have had to deal with young family members suddenly leaving this earthly paradise and I can tell you I was surprised and inspired two years ago when Lamar overcame his grief and chose to be with the team.

The man leaves it all on the court every night. He never quits. Could he shoot better from the perimeter? Sure. COuld he not throw length of the court passes out of bounds? Of course. Is he worth 11 million dollars? What is worth 11 mil? Honestly though, is there anything that we can point at and say, that's worth 11 million dollars!

We will re-negotiate his contract at the end of the season, or he'll be traded by Feb. Simple as pie. I think we'll keep him for three reasons: Best rebounder on the team. Best Post defender on the team (Bynum may take over this one, but he hasn't yet). The staff loves him, he's a lovable fellow and he works his tail off. I think this year he'll shine with some pressure and a little challenging. Otherwise, if someone gives him more than 10 mil at the end of the year, so be it. What can you do?

GO LAMAR!!!!!

>>>Bottom line: We need to find a way to get rid of RadMan.
>>>
>>>The dude is pretty much useless to us.

It has been said before, but there's a certain naivety to that
kind of logic.

"Player X sucks. We should trade him for someone better."

The logic is flawed on multiple levels...

1. If said player (Vlad Rad in this case) truly sucks, then
you're not going to get some All-Star or first round pick for
him in return... you're just going to get a player who sucks
about the same level as them or whose contract is even longer
and more repulsive (until the last year of their contract, when
they become an "expiring contract"). If the Lakers trade
Vlad Rad for Jared Jeffries or Marko Jaric or someone like
that, they aren't really any better off.

2. Vlad doesn't suck that hard. Yes, his defense is mostly
nonexistant, but he's a good 3-point shooter who spaces the
floor for post players and slashers. Even on nights when he's
not hitting, most teams don't sag off of Rad to double team.
And if they do, he does a pretty good job of hitting the 3's
and making them pay.

3. Not every player on a good team needs to be a superstar
two-way player. Since the introduction of the salary cap,
most teams are relegated to 1 or 2 superstars and maybe
another 1 or 2 All-Star level players. The rest of the team
is filled out with role players with a variety of strengths and
weaknesses. Vlad is such a player. He has a strength in
3-point shooting and a weakness in defense.

4. Vlad played almost 23 minutes per game on the team
that won the Western Conference last season. That is a
pretty significant contribution to a very good team. If he
was really that terrible, either he'd be playing less minutes
or the Lakers would be losing more games.

----

In summary, Vlad (and Luke for that matter) are not cancers
to the team like Kwame and Cook and Smush. He has a role
that he plays pretty well. He's a bit overpaid for what he
contributes, but so are half the players in the league.

I'm not saying that I'd turn it down if Toronto offered to trade
Jose Calderon for Radman, but that's just not going to happen.
And if the Lakers were to trade Rad for Tim Thomas, that ain't
going to improve the team.

Mamba24,

I'm alert could not watch the Dow falling down at 500. Are you sure LO deserves a dough or just plain donuts during these bleak times? Give him more donuts as motivation to run faster, jump higher, gosh! a lot of people are going unemployed due to store closings and here we are giving one person $ 11M, how about giving him 11 million pennies plus donuts as bonus. That's how players should be paid during depression. LOL!

According to VladRAd: As far as I've heard from the coaches, everybody is going to be playing shorter minutes," Radmanovic said. "So, we have to prepare mentally....

To prepare mentally means he has more time to find for snow for his slavic snowboarding hobbies while Luke moonlights with Craig's List as a spokesman for junk items. LOL!

Hmm on Lamar Odom, this is where I'm torn. I think it's in the best interest of the team to trade him since imho he's been most effective at power forward and if the pau/bynum combo takes off then i think lamar becomes redundant, and I'm not a fan of the whole lamar being point thing, I remember how badly that went the last time. Having said that Lamar has definately bled purple and gold the last couple of years and I wouldn't shed any tears over seeing him stay a laker. Bottom line this is a nice problem to have :)

Mamba24,
My vacation ends when the regular season starts but responding to the roll call test. Also I'm sure there's a championship bandwaggon cruising the streets somewhere, please add me to it. However I'd like to be left off any 55, 60, 70 or blah regular season win band waggon, those days are dead to me. The only measue of success from now on is a championship banner. I'll signup for a "at least 3 lakers on the west all star squad" bandwaggon though.

Unless you are paying him out of your wallet it is totally irrelevant how much he is paid, it only matters how well he performs for the fans.

I'm a bit worried Phil is over coaching with all of the options he has, he's like a kid in a candy store. It took Odum three years to learn the triangle and now he put him at the point? Just because you can't doesn't mean you should. This will almost surely mean Lamar playing more than one position a game, and then a whole different set of configurations for the playoffs. Pick one or two options and stick with them, don't confuse Lamar. You can have Kobe play all five position, but not Lamar, Phil needs to coach within his ability regardless of the price tag on his jersey.

*__________________*
Give L.O. Less Money
BANDWAGON
*------------------------------*
(01) Rick Friedman - . He just isn't always committed to being the best he can be.
(02) LakerTom - Salaries get left in the locker room when the team takes the court.
(03) Faith - Personally I'd prefer to pay him somewhere around 7 mil
(04) HobbitMage - If you're going to talk like an all-star and want $$ like
an all-star you have to play like an all-star and he hasn't.
(05) Benjamin - No smoking weed during the playoffs
(06) Lakers Sth - LO isn't worth $14M or $11M to THIS team. He's worth less.
(07) Jon K. - I love Lamar, but he's overpaid .
(08) Leo - . He's grossly overpaid
(09) DB - he better be working some extra hrs. cleaning staples to make it worth our while.
(10) TomK - Odom is worth 8-10 million for what he provides the lakers,
(11) LongTimeLakerFan - I can't imagine the Lakers paying Lamar >11 million and up when
they have 3 huge contracts for Kobe, Pau, and Andrew.
*__________________*
Give L.O. The Money
BANDWAGON
*------------------------------*
(01) Mamba24 – He’s Lamar Odom and you’re not B#tch.
(02) Laker Hopeful - I'm tired of people complaining about Lamar's salary
(03) HellRaiser(certified MambaFan) - Lamar is worth every penny
(04) Najja aka Bonus - For the work and effort it takes to persevere and make it to
the NBA, they are all worth their salaries.
(05) Laker Kev - I think 11 is about right given the inflated market overall in the nba.
(06) JohnValleFuoco - Come on you guys. Lamar has played HUGE MINUTES for
us over the last two years.
(07) JohnnyP - Whether or not LO is worth his salary depends on which LO you
are talking about.
(08) Justin - i don't think he's particularly over-paid.
(09) Cameron - I think people should give Lamar a break
(10) Benny Blanca - , i bet LO gets another large contract, and he'll be worth it.
(11) MrBarneyDangles - we should not be bashing anyone until a player single
handedly loses a game for us.
(12) Bynumite - at $11 million, I think he's paid just right
(13) SamLL - I like LO. He leaves everything on the floor, he's played with pain
..great rebounder. he's a glue guy...
(14) Dave M. - he will deliver his message. it will be worth every penny.
(15) TheKobeBryantBlitz - this overpaid thing is really overblown
(16) Jamie Sweet - LAMAR ODOM IS not OVER PAID I could scream it
from the heavens if I thought they existed.
(17) JustAnotherMambaFan - The man is all heart and talent.
Yes - I'm an LO homer and proud of it!

Video from today's practice is up already.

http://www.nba.com/lakers/multimedia/0708video.html

Interviews with PJ, Fish and Kobe. Kobe gives some insight into how their scrimmages have been going. Mentioned that their first scrimmages were really lopsided and they had to break up the units, putting Kobe and Pau with the younger guys. PJ keeps bringing up that they had a team that played very well together last season and knows there's a unit he can put out there that'll execute at a high level. He says Drew and Pau are still clumsy together. He talks about their defensive tweaks. Fish talks about his off-season recovery from his nagging foot injury.

Mamba24 - I am absolutely, positively on the "Give LO the Dough" bandwagon. As I said - he's all heart and soul and tons of talent. He will show this year why it is exactly that the Lakers need him and cannot win the title without him. Beware NBA - the Swiss Army Knife cometh....

GO LAKERS!

LO = LAKER FOR LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!