KL,

Be serious, was MJ giving his teammates confidence when he was punching Steve Kerr's lights out or when Bill Cartwright was threatening to break his legs if he kept up his verbal abuse?

Your ability to revise history is astounding.

fearless/utz

"Shaq is 3 for 5 as the number one guy. 3 for 4 in LA, and 0 for 1 in Orlando."

you're 99.999999% correct. i forgot.

i don't count 2004, that's when kobe tried to be the #1 which caused us another championship.

in either case, i was wrong and appreciate the correction.

utz, nice to chat with you again. you're a stand-up blogger and i appreciate you keepin it real for us.

Steven V,

I don't know if I've ever seen a weaker argument for Kobe comparing himself to MJ than seeing KL link to an article where the writer is the one pushing the MJ comparisons, not Kobe.

This is is probably weaker than KL's assertion that the NBA salary cap is something that can be easily circumvented if you REALLY want to. Kinda like how Santa is real to the kids who REALLY believe in him.

"By the way, I will admit that Jordan was the greatest of all time the day you can point out to me how he started at center in Game 6 of the Finals during his rookie season and scored 42 points and grabbed 15 rebounds. Until then, I think we all know who is the greatest."

CAN I GET AN AMEN??

I am sick and tired of all this "Jordan was the Greatest" crap, comparing Kobe to Jordan, blah blah blah. Magic could start at AND DOMINATE at all 5 positions, not to mention elevate his teammates, ressurect Kareem, save the NBA (along with Bird), win titles for Pat Riley and do it all with a meggawatt, infectious smile and an obvious joy for the game. If Kobe wants to be anyone, he should be Magic. Oh, and Butler? Nash is not worthy to hold Magic's towel and fetch his gatorade, let alone be mentioned in the same breath as "Greatest Point Guard of All Time".

"You’ve made my point. The laker team wasn’t for kobe to take. Period. End of story. Your view is what started the “family feud” when survey said: kobe traded championship opportunities for individualism. You’re typical of kobe apologist who’ll make excuses for kobe. You have every right and I have every right to disagree."

Nope it was Kobe's team for take, had Kobe not stepped up his game we would probably not have made the playoffs we would have not made the playoffs and we could have easily blamed Shaq even more for that late surgery and Kobe for not stepping up. Unfortunately you just doesn't want to see numbers when we were 11-19 and Shaq was struggling and Kobe stepped up and we went 39-13 to finish 50-32 when we should have at least gotten 4th seed to get home court advantage. But I won't argue too much with you seeing as you somewhat changed from last year. If you want to label me as an apologist go ahead, I'll just have you as someone who still stuck in the past.

It's a matter of opinion.

"how quickly we forget the crying like a little girl last summer."

I could say all men regardless of age does that but I don't want to get into philosophy here. Wasn't it Shaq who dissed Ricky Davis and the Miami Heat and was the one who called D-Wade "Wunderboy". The one who demanded touches this season while playing for the Heat and was suddenly fine with not having touches when traded to the Suns? Sounds like a complainer Shaq is. Don't get me wrong Kobe complained too and called Jerry Buss an "idiot". He did apologize to MItch and Andrew (privately)and is back on good terms with Buss as much as Shaq probably did apologize to the Heat and Pat Riley (privately).

"I never said this. All I said is this blog of kobe apologist tries to re-write history."

Uh huh. NO one disputes Shaq being the leader from 2000-2002. Kobe played second fiddle in those days and also played a co lead role in 2002. Kobe took over in 2002-2003 and with Shaq not complaining at first got the Lakers to a 38-14 run in January after 12-18 start with Shaq still out of shape from having the surgery too late. 2003-2004 both tried to be Alpha Dog (along with Payton) and it was instrumental in losing the title. That is not revisionism, that is fact.

And that quote from Sports Illustrated? Steve V is right, that doesn't compare Kobe to Jordan. I could say I have the same mentality as Jordan in trying to win, I do not mean I am Jordan. That is a fallacy to think that Kobe says he's the same as Jordan. He has always said Jordan and him are different, it's the fans that compare him to Jordan.

I understand that most stuff here in the blogs specifically the off season bores you (yea it does to me too). I just don't think that picking at old wounds is the stuff to keep the blog entertained.

-blitz

Nah I still think Kareem is the greatest Laker and that includes being greater than Magic Man

-blitz

AMEN!

CAN I GET AN AMEN??

I am sick and tired of all this "Jordan was the Greatest" crap, comparing Kobe to Jordan,
blah blah blah. Magic could start at AND DOMINATE at all 5 positions, not to mention elevate
his teammates, ressurect Kareem, save the NBA (along with Bird), win titles for Pat Riley and
do it all with a meggawatt, infectious smile and an obvious joy for the game. If Kobe wants to
be anyone, he should be Magic. Oh, and Butler? Nash is not worthy to hold Magic's towel and
fetch his gatorade, let alone be mentioned in the same breath as "Greatest Point Guard of All Time".
posted by: Badfinger | September 23, 2008 at 10:22 AM

AMEN AGAIN!!

KL,

I'm not, not chilled. It's just annoying that you say we keep slurping Kobe when you're the one that brings him up time and time again. Kobe is rarely a topic of conversation anymore until someone with an anti-Kobe agenda brings him up.

As for Bynum, I agree that proclaiming him the next great center is premature. I think he's going to be very good but I don't believe in giving a guy a hefty extension without him earning it. He played at an all-star level from Dec. 1st to his injury but that's not enough of a track record.

LO, I think could be very valuable to the team or completely expendable with all of our talent. It'll be interesting to watch.

BTW, don't take anything I wrote personally. I just think we need to get to the point where we're like fine KL doesn't like Kobe but there are so many other interesting things to talk about with the team and league that we could be discussing

Humanomaly,

>>>I never did this, but I always wanted to take exact
>>>geographical location of Los Angeles, and find out what
>>>is truly on the exact opposite side of the world.....

Well, let's consider that.

The approximate Lat-Long of Los Angeles is 34 degrees N, 118 degrees West.

The opposite side of the world would thus be 34 degrees S, 118 degrees East.

So if you dug a hole from Los Angeles straight through the
center of the earth (ignoring the fact that you and your equipment
would be burnt to a crisp by the magma at the core), you'd
come out somewhere near the western end of the southern
coast of Australia (near Albany). The closest major city to
"the opposite side of the world" from Los Angeles, would be
Perth, Australia.

KL,

>>>"Have you considered that Jordan gave his
>>>guys confidence? "

Oh, I see. It was Jordan's magnanimous presence on the court
that caused most of the team to shoot over 50% for the playoffs.

So what happened the two years before that when they
lost in the conference finals? Why wasn't his radiant glow
causing everyone on the team to shoot 50% those years?

Why can't you just accept that Jordan's teammates improved
with experience deep in the playoffs and with playing together,
and eventually they started playing at a higher level. Any
explanation other than that is just pandering to MJ.

Watch and learn. Farmar will play better this year. Sasha
will play better this year. Gasol will play better this year.
Odom will play better this year. You can give Kobe credit
if you'd like to be consistent with your worshiping of MJ,
but it's just that you need experience at a level of performance
to perform well at that level.

High school players take time to adjust to the college
game. College players take time to adjust to the pro
game. And pro players take time to adjust to the later
rounds of the playoffs. A handful of players like MJ and
Kobe and Magic and LeBron can jump to the next level
and excel, but the majority of players stumble their first
time at the higher level, but can improve with more
experience at that level.

KL,

"you're 99.999999% correct. i forgot."

Am I correct!? Did I read that correctly? Did you actually give me props?!

Made my day. :0

BTW, Shaq and Kobe are now on even footing. Shaq started out 0 for 1 and so has Kobe. Remember, even Sarge had to call Shaq out for giving Ologuwan too much respect when he was in Orlando.

There are only an extremely small number of superstars that were successful their first time around. Magic being one.

My apologies to Ologuwan for misspelling his name. Spell-check doesn't help me out with that one.

BTW, just to match Shaq, Kobe has to go through about 8 years of drought with players of capability then win three in a row. It is much easier for Kobe to match Shaq, than for Kobe to ever match Jordan. But, he is in the right place right now to possibly do both.

And, my point on being a Kobe apologist (a point for which I do not deny), is that the league is much harder to dominate now than it ever was. Mostly because of dumb rules set down by the higher ups, like that crazy zone defense (except in the paint) thing. In last year's finals, Boston played a very loose box-and-one defense that got looser and more "man-ish" as the rest of the Lakers shots stopped falling.

By that last game, it was almost a quadruple team. Kobe did pass to his team mates like he's supposed to. They just couldn't shoot. Happens sometimes.

We also know that Boston had a great defensive scheme, but the scheme didn't account for *ALL* of the Lakers troubles. They collectively lost their trouches all at the same time.

I don't think that's going to happen next time. But, then again, I am an admitted Homer.

--Fearless

Jeterguru -

You should be banned from the blog for the very idea of suggesting signing Stephon Marbury.

Ok, just kidding about the ban. But seriously, let that guy be a cancer somewhere else (Dallas? GS? Phoenix? Miami?).

It's a shame - I was once a huge Steph apologist. But the guy is the ultimate loser. Loser in Minnesota, loser in New Jersey, loser in Phoenix (save for one season - after which he was traded because he was a loser), loser in New York. Loser in Italy or wherever his crazy arse goes.

Magic Johnson was the Greatest Laker Ever. There's a reason why his statue is outside of Staples Center. If he didn't get HIV and have it shorten his career as it did, there would be absolutely no reason to debate this fact.

For God's sake, he was a point guard who nearly averaged a triple double and he could DOMINATE at times playing CENTER! That just doesn't happen.

GO LAKERS!

KL,

"thanks in large part to jordan. do you remember how the "experienced" Bulls performed in 1994 and 1995 without Jordan?"

The 1994 Bulls went 55-27 and were a few plays away from making it to the Eastern Conference Finals. Any team that can win 55 games without it's best player is an absolutely awesome team.

KL and Xodus,

Just to throw in my side comment to your on-going discussion (you don't mind, do you?), I didn't hate Shaq until he dissed Buss with his, "Pay me my F-ing money" thing.

I disliked him after the, "Company Time" bit.

I was ambivilant about the, "I play myself into shape" nonesense.

I loved him when he came.

The souring of Laker fans to him is of his own doing. Regardless if any person thinks the things said out of hatred are true or not, they are well deserved.

--Fearless

LTLF,

That game was incredible. INCREDIBLE. Magic even busted a Kareem skyhook.

If any of you Lakers fans haven't seen that performance, you simply MUST watch it. Period. Do it. Do it now.

Go Lake Show!

Greatest Lakers Ever:

1. Magic Johnson
2. Jerry West
3. Kareem Abdul-Jabaar
4. George Mikan
5. Kobe Bryant
6. Wilt Chamberlain
7. Elgin Baylor
8. James Worthy
9. Shaquille O'Neal
10. Gail Goodrich

GO LAKERS!

Oden on Bynum: http://tinyurl.com/53okwl

"NBA.com: You’re making your regular-season debut against the Lakers and their own returning center, Andrew Bynum. What do you know about his game?

Greg Oden: I learned a lot about him last year before he got hurt. I started watching some film on him and I saw how he was playing and moving and doing really good. He’s coming off an injury too. Hopefully he’s around the same place that I am. I know that he’s a good player and it’s going to be a difficult challenge for me."

Oden is hopeful they're in the same place. LOL. Can't wait.

please god... let something interesting happen... let Bynum huck a cake at Farmar who ducks and the cake hits Jeannie Buss in the face... something... we're crawling to the finish line here...

Oden vs. Bynum what a great matchup!! What a great way to kickoff the season. Oh there is that other guy playing too, Kobe something, I can't remember, but he's supposed to be pretty good too!! Can't wait!!

I don't think Magic ever DOMINATED at center after that game, especially after the influx of centers in the mid-late-eighties. I can't recall him ever dominating a Hakeem, Ewing, Robinson, or Moses... If Magic is the greatest Laker, then it's more because of his part in captivating an audience and revitalizing the league as opposed to just his performance on the floor. Kareem dominated in multiple eras but was never the most beloved of players like Magic and Jordan. However, much like the debates we have with Kobe, public perception versus his performance on the court doesn't always balance out.

As far as Darryl Dawkins is concerned, Kareem seemed to be having his way just as easily, averaging 33,14,3, 5blks. He apparently also sulked that he wasn't the Finals MVP, so that doesn't help him in the popularity contest, but his numbers are still pretty freaking awesome, plus he was the MVP for the season that year too.

Sun should have a year as a D-Fender. He should do it because:
A - He needs to get a handle on the NBA 3-point line (in FIBA it's about 6 feet in)
B - He needs to get a read on NBA-style defense so that his exsquisite ball-handling and athleticism don't cause him to rack up offensive fouls or just get bullied off the ball.
C - He needs to work on his mid-range jumper and I've never seen him use a tear drop.
D - He should consider having a few post up moves with his back to the basket.

He should be on the Lakers because:
A - Farmar needs someone breathing down his neck in order to light a fire under his A#$.
B - Fish might get hurt.
C - Sun is long and if we put him and Kobe and Lamar and Pau and Bynum out there...that's like a whole team of Tayshaun Princes.
D - Post up moves for guards are LAME.

Which is more true, Laker blog? I think all points are realistic, but which gives the team the best chance to OWN the league?

In other news, it was GREAT to watch Brett Favabean get walloped by San Diego. He wouldn't have looked as good if he wasn't completeing all those dump passes five yards out. I hate Brett Farvre.

Also, we're almost there people, almost there...

Kiwi,

Very well put. I was never a Jordan fan, but once he hit that stride in 91 that was it! He had a very talented team no doubt, but to say he didn't mold that team, especially Scottie, isn't fair. In fact, that 94 season's success should be a tribute to Jordan's legacy as well. Not only does he comeback to play a quarter season, get his team further than (1994) but posts two 72-10 seasons and a 3-peat. Was his team talented without him? Clearly, but what other player puts his team over the top like that?

Shum,

>>>>>Laker Tom, you know I'm a double your % Chinese, but am always cautiously
>>>>>optimistic about Sun being able to make the team; and who knows it can go
>>>>>either way, and I'll be very frustrated if the teammates (esp. those American
>>>>> teammates who also compete with him to make the team) don't embrace him
>>>>>because he's a Chinese, it would affect his performance. Bottom line is he has
>>>>>to earn their respect in order to survive, but he is a smart guy, he is likable in
>>>>>LA (with a gigantic Chinese community backing him up), he will be fine. BTW,
>>>>>I just learned that you live in the Bay area, not in LA (or you used to live here)?

Good to hear from you, Tom. As we all know, I am aggressively optimistic about Sun Yue becoming an NBA player. As for fitting in with the Lakers, I don’t really expect that to be a problem for Sun and expect the Lakers players to easily embrace Sun as a part of the team. But no doubt that he will have to earn his playing time and teammates’ respect. The NBA is not the CBA or the Olympics but I think Sun Yue has already shown that he has NBA-level ball handling and passing skills despite his authentic 6-9 height. I agree with you that Sun is a likeable and smart guy who should excel in the freer style of the NBA versus Team China.

I was born in southern Wisconsin and lived in the backrooms of Chinese restaurants there and in northern Illinois until we moved to Southern California when I was 12 years old. I went to junior high and high school in Monrovia in the San Gabriel Valley and lived all over the Southland from Laguna to Long Beach to Sierra Madre so I think of myself as having grown up in SoCal. I moved to Mill Valley north of San Francisco in the 80’s for business purposes and now consider myself to be Bay Area guy, although I still miss some things about LA. One way or another, I will always be a Cali guy.

Tom

Mitch Kupchack talks about training camp.

http://tinyurl.com/4c9kry

Pretty interesting stuff.

Doesn't sound like DJ Mbenga is coming back, so a spot may be opening for C.J. Giles or Jelani McCoy.

Sounds like they might be opening up two spots as well.

GO LAKERS!