Although I like his name, Sun didn't show me anything in the olympics to suggest he'll be an impact playa in the NBA, at least not for the next few seasons.

The lakers lack defensive ability at the G position, and at SG once kobey sits. Seeing Sasha get burned by Ray A, seeing Farmar ineffective vs. Boston, and knowing that Sun is a few years away from NBA-level play, and looking at a decrepit Fischer, the picture does not look good.

But in PHX, the guard situation has not looked this good since KJ, Kidd and NASH all played on the same team.

A Riddle for Butler:

What do a jilted bride on her wedding day and Amare Stoudamire have in common?

So sayeth Slava, "I LOVE L.A!"

GO LAKERS!

This seems like a good place to mention that Goran Dragic is now officially a PHOENIX SUN. He signed the deal and all that's left now is total domination of the NBA.

From Paul Coro of AZcentral:

Dragic is expected to join the team's voluntary scrimmages Tuesday.

The Suns are planning on the 22-year-old point guard to immediately slip into the rotation as Steve Nash's backup. He has been in Phoenix for about a month after his buyout negotiations were completed but was limited to working out rather than playing because he did not have a contract.

In their time together, how many championships did KJ, Kidd and Nash win together?

repost

Aloha Mike,

“Eddie Jones was not decent?”

Jones was good defensively, but not like a Penny, Wade or Young Kobe. I get your point nevertheless.

“If you recall Shaq was taking a lot of heat for not winning it all in L.A and then Kobe matures into a super star and Da DA!! Three peat.”

I’m not sure if it was solely kobe “maturing” rather guys around the league joining the shaq bandwagon. I could be wrong, but that’s what I remember.

“Michael Jordon couldnt do it until the Bulls added another super star in Pippin. The Spurs did it with a dominate Duncan and 2 other all stars. Detroit had 5 all stars. But somehow you always contend that Kobe was suppose to do it alone, why?”

I’ve never said that shaq did it alone. Shaq was the #1 and kobe was the #2. I’ve had a problem with this blog trying to re-write history by saying shaq and kobe were equals. That is simply not true. The offense ran through shaq, not kobe. In 2003 and 2004, kobe tried to take the #1 from shaq which caused the “feud” and my resentment towards kobe.

“Would you concede that San Antonio and Boston play a little better defense then Denver?”

Without a doubt. My point is that I would have like to see someone shine like Jordan making a name of guys like BJ Armstrong, Steve Kerr and Jimbo/Johnny Paxon. Hell, shaq made a name for Kobe before kobe became the air apparent. Granted, kobe was on his way anyway, but playing next to shaq and in LA elevated kobe’s status which kobe pooped all over by talking smack about shaq and smack about the lakers. In spite of this, LA fans (more specifically, kobe fans) still blindly support kob. Go figure.

“See we now have a very good team. Kobe led us to the finals, rather easily I might add.”

Kobe compared himself to Jordan. Jordan won each and every finals as the #1 guy. Kobe is 0 for 1 as the #1 guy. Shaq is 3 for 3 as the #1 guy and 1 for 1 as the #2 guy. To be continued.

“Now I am very optimistic about this year.”

Me too as long as kobe remembers how he made it back to the finals. I hope kobe learns to elevate other’s game and not just his own.

I sincerely enjoy the chat. Mahalo.

If i'm not mistaken, we have we not won a title since Slava left... Curse of the Medvedenko anyone? What is that guy doing these days? Can't we bring him back?

Butler

'But in PHX, the guard situation has not looked this good since KJ, Kidd and NASH all played on the same team.'

and who got all the splinters in their butt on that team?

Let's talk about Sun, and not about Shaq...."history...is like an angel being blown backwards into the future....." (Laurie Anderson, from one of her songs....)....what it means, sometimes I think I have it figured out, other times I think I'm way off...

Good move by Mitch to hunker down and not let Sun go, probably at the time they were both question marks to ever come to the US, but, this is one time when I think he defied the rule of when in doubt, always go with the bigger player....look, he risked upsetting Pau, even, we don't know that, but maybe Pau and Marc wanted to play together, but when it comes down to it, they all know it's a business.
Yes, we know Sun is probably at least 2 years away from being a consistent contributor, he may play between now and then and he may have those moments, but people give him time...I personally think he has "it", I think he has more than he has shown, playing under the control of the Chinese national team, filtered down to ABA, even in ABA he was probably controlled. Look at him, does he look scared??? I think not, I think he looks confident. He may not have Kobe athleteic ability, but with work, hopefully he can stay on the court. His jumpers look fine to me, and with his height, even if he has a slow release he should not be stuffed. Like I said, less 3's, the Lakers consistently went over their quota last year...so don't knock his 3. Yes I know the 3 helps spread the court, but as I see it, driving the lane and with option to handoff to AB, or Gasol, or Kobe lurking the baseline, or corner, or 4th player in 3-land, he can either take it to the hoop for his proven 2 handed dunks, pull up for the short jumper, or do the handoff....or pass out to the 3 shooter....let's hope he gets knocked on his ass a few times going to the hoop, because that will wake him up, and will make him a better player....

AK,

It needs to be said that Mitch Kupchak is doing an excellent job as the Lakers general manager.
Wading through the paperwork and politics to get Sun to the USA required a deft and delicate hand. One of the qualities that Mitch has displayed consistently since he took over for Jerry has been utmost respect for the players. It’s why I don’t worry about negotiations with Kobe or Drew ruffling anybody’s feathers. Mitch is too smart and professional to allow that to occur.

>>>>>Memphis also wanted Sun in the trade, but we wanted to keep at least one of those
>>>>>2 guys so Memphis wanted Marc and we are happy that we were able to keep Sun Yue,
>>>>>because we liked him when we drafted him. Ronnie Lester went to Singapore in January
>>>>>to watch him play and indicated that he would continue to be considered a prospect,
>>>>>as he played well.

Some interesting comments from Mitch. Sun Yue and the second round pick (which may be like a late first round pick considering Memphis will stink) that Mitch got from the Grizzlies could turn out to be surprises that nobody expected.

>>>>>He's got a bounce to his step, he's got energy. I think our players won't have any
>>>>>problem embracing him. Now of course he's got to make the team and he's got to
>>>>>earn their respect so he may get the rookie treatment for the first month of the season.
>>>>>But if he earns his way, from my being around him based on his personality, I don't
>>>>>think he'll have any problem.

That bounce and energy are part of why I think Sun Yue has a chance to be a player. It is part of what is missing from Yao and Yi, who are both boringly stoic in demeanor. Sun Yue may fit better in the NBA than previous Chinese players.

>>>>>I spoke to Kobe last week, because Team USA played against China and Kobe said
>>>>>that he knew who the guy was. He said he was competitive and feisty and he did not
>>>>>back down. I know that he's athletic enough. I like his size, I like his skill level. I think
>>>>>he's a ball handling guard at 6'8". Those are all positives, but he hasn't played at this
>>>>>level and I think he'll show well, but the NBA is a different game. He'll face challenges
>>>>>he hasn't faced before, but I don’t think he'll back down. I think he'll embrace the
>>>>>challenge and at the end of the day if the guy is good enough after 28 days of training
>>>>>camp (and pre-season), we'll know it and he'll make the team. It's not something that
>>>>>will be ferreted out in a week or 2, maybe some guys will know in a week if they're
>>>>>good enough, but if you're with the team for 28 days, we'll know and he'll know
>>>>>too (if he's good enough).

While Sun will have to prove himself, I get a strong sense that Mitch thinks he may have a steal by getting the kid in the second round. Mitch also considers Sun Yue to be “a ball handling guard at 6'8".” This kid’s future is at the point, not at shooting guard or small forward. Don’t know what to say about Q-Tip, LOL. At any rate, it will be fun seeing if Sun Yue has game enough to play in the NBA.

Tom

KL

"Have you considered that Jordan gave his guys confidence?"

No not until Jordan got Pippen did those guys become more comfortable (and Phil Jackson). Cartwright was the starting center in New York until Patrick Ewing came when his production went down.

Kobe as "the man" record so far

04-05: 32-50 Missed Playoffs
05-06: 45-37 Eliminated by Phoenix Suns 4-3
06-07: 42-40 Eliminated by Phoenix Suns 4-1
07-08: 57-25 Beaten in NBA Finals by Boston Celtics 4-2

Jordan's first 4 years

85: 38-44 Swept by Milwaukee Bucks 3-0
86: 30-52 Swept by Boston Celtics 3-0
87: 40-42 Swept by Boston Celtics 3-0
88: 50-32 Eliminated by Detroit Pistons 4-1

Can't make the argument that "Jordan was a rookie and was learning the NBA". Jordan was the Sports Player of the Year twice in North Carolina. Jordan, the greatest guard in NBA History still got swept 3 times in the playoffs and didn't win 50-32 until Pippen and Grant got drafted in 87-88.

"Kobe compared himself to Jordan."

Show the exact Quote. NO don't say "oh he did" that is just as believable as Robin Lopez being the next Tim Duncan. And it must say "I'm like Mike" and not some media (Stephen A. Smith) doing it for him. IN fact Kobe even said he wasn't Jordan"

http://tinyurl.com/4kqbln

"Without a doubt. My point is that I would have like to see someone shine like Jordan making a name of guys like BJ Armstrong, Steve Kerr and Jimbo/Johnny Paxon."

You probably haven't seen my debates with Hobbitmage but the only reason why Kerr and Paxon even got playing time was because PIPPEN was able to play the point.
He disliked playing with Sam Vincent and Steve Colter for this very reason. The reason why was because they were in the lane too much, and Jordan wanted to be the one to drive to the basket. The only logical choice would be that Jordan play the point and put a spot up shooter at the shooting guard slot. However, Jordan hated playing point guard (though it was arguably the position best suited for him since other point guards couldn't defend him , not even Isiah Thomas) and lacked point guard skills. So in order to have Jordan play shooting guard, the point guard must be a spot up shooter (Fish for Kobe, Paxon/Kerr/Harper for Jordan) and have someone else play the point (Pippen). Neither Paxon, Kerr, nor BJ Armstrong would have suceeded anywhere as the starting point guard. Don't believe me still? Try Derek Fisher. Fish left LA to try to run the point guard slot in Golden State. However he lacked real point guard skills and was replaced by Baron Davis. The Warriors then traded Fish to Utah and because Ronnie Brewer wasn't that good and they had Deron Williams, Fish had to start at shooting guard even though he's 6'1! After the season ends he comes back to LA and with Kobe and guess what happens? Fish is back to being a starter at the point guard slot and has a solid year.

And BJ Armstrong, then why did BJ Armstrong get his ONLY All Star selection when Jordan was playing Baseball? Because he was able to run the point because he was able to run the point (since Pippen was the man) and guess who replaced Jordan? CBA's own Pete Myers. (You don't replace a great like Jordan with Myers and get a 55 win season!). Myers though was a spot up shooter and yet with Pippen running the team the Bulls got a 55-27 record. When Jordan came back, BJ Armstrong gets selected in the expansion draft (the Bulls wilingly let him go since he felt like a starter but wasn't the exact fit for the Triangle Offense).

In other words it takes more than just "individual" greatness, it takes the right system.

"I’ve had a problem with this blog trying to re-write history by saying shaq and kobe were equals. "

2000-2002 Season Shaq was the man. No one here doubts that and anyone who does (haven't seen any) is misinformed. 2002-2003 Kobe took charge of the Lakers after the Lakers went 13-18 thanks to Shaq and his "I got hurt on company time so I'll heal on company time". As a result the Lakers went 37-14 during that run and finished 50-32. Kobe got his best season statistically with 30ppg 7 rpg 6 apg and 2.2 steals per game and was the first time he got to both the 1st Defensive All Team and 1st All NBA. Kobe also improved Shaq that year and that year was the ONLY year that Shaq shot 62.2% on his free throws. In the playoffs, had Phil not have that surgery combined with Horry's miss (and being 5th seed) led to the Lakers not winning the title.

I"’m not sure if it was solely kobe “maturing” rather guys around the league joining the shaq bandwagon. I could be wrong, but that’s what I remember."

Kobe was maturing. The Lakers roster was left largely intact from 1998-1999. Some guys like Eddie Jones and Dennis Rodman had left the team before PJ arrived. Only Ron Harper was the only significant arrival in LA when the 1st Championship (he came because he would have the same job as he did in Chicago, spot up defending point guard). Kobe matured and became the side kick for Shaq.

Xodus here's the "leads" during the Shaq-Kobe years.

1999-2000: Shaq
2000-2001: Shaq
2001-2002: Shaq with Kobe playing a co lead role (only time that both co existed peacefully with both trying to be number 1)
2002-2003: Kobe
2003-2004: Shaq versus Kobe versus Gary Payton (All 3 wanted the lead, yes Payton wanted the lead aka during a press conference "I'm being disrespected ")

I understand that while KL feels that Shaq's accomplishments is being belittled by this blog, understand that most of us (yes there are some people who praise dumb ideas like Kwa-may's calves) will always remember what Shaq did for us and nothing can belittle that. That being said, Kobe is the one here in charge and while he has had his problems in the past he's the leader of the Lakers and thanks to great coaching combined with a great FO got us to the NBA Finals after being eliminated by the Suns 4-1 in the First Round. Kobe still had at least 4-5 years of greatness within him and time will only tell how great he will be.

-blitz

Xodus

I agree.

-blitz

I have no IDEA where did KL got his information that we here in this BLOG is BELITTLING SHAQ's accomplishments... totally unfounded...

Grow up KL... you are like 5 years old kid who's imagining things...

Shaq HAS BEEN a lakers player. And BIG part of lakers Successful franchise...

Go Lakers!

Go Kobe!

Aloha K.L

Just a couple of things. First your memory is rather weak it appears. In Eddie Jones last full year Shaq had Horry, Fox, Fisher, a decent back up in Eldon Campell and a pretty good point guard in Van Exel. what happened? They lost to the team with 2 super stars, Stockton and Malone. Kind of supports what I have been saying.

As far as making others shine, again you must have missed a lot of games last year. I think Jordon Farmar led the team in last second shots, and Sasha was close. The guys you pointed out on the bulls hit some big playoff shots but never really had huge overall games like Pau, Odom and Shasa had during these playoffs. Besides Jordons playoff scoring average is 33 ppg with 5.7 assists and Kobes is 30ppg with 5.6 assists. They both fed their teamates equally and both scored alot, because that was what they were asked to do for their teams.

Lastly K.L I think the blog has passed you by. I dont know if you were reading it in exile but if you weren't you would have noticed that the topics everyone was talking about was:

Will Bynum be healthy and pick up were he left off?
Can Odom transiton to the 3 or will he come off the bench?
How will Pau and Andrew play together?
Will Ariza come back strong, can he shoot well enough to star?
Will Jordon take another big step like he did last year?
How good will Sun Yue be?

These are just some of the things people were talking about I can assure you almost nobody was really talking about Kobe except in the olympic context and maybe his pinky once in a while. But no one was talking Shaq/Kobe because most of us moved on from that. You should try out some of these other topics you might like them.

MH

LakerTom,

half-Chinese?....may I ask, what's the other half?

Me, 100% Chinese....

I never did this, but I always wanted to take exact geographical location of Los Angeles, and find out what is truly on the exact opposite side of the world.....this fascination of mine obviously came from watching those cartoons, as a kid (2 years ago) where they dig so deep, they come up in China?

hman.

repost to severl bloggers whom i responded in the previous thread.

Kiwi:
“Anyway no problem.I used to enjoy sparring with you but it appears you've lost your touch so I wont bother in the future.Might be time to find a new hobby KL.You've lost your credibility here as a villan with any edge.”

Sorry to disappoint. I really don’t have the time I use to and I’m on parole by the k-buddies. I recall you were one blogger I didn’t do the “schtick” and i look forward to having spirited conversations in the future. Next time I won’t be as nice. Haha.

“Your washed up,take a seat on the Suns bench pal... right beside your buddy Shaq.You can reminisce about the glory days when you were both relevant.”

LMAO. Haha….funny. BTW, i can take the punishment. i've taken much, much more from this blog.

Thekobebryantblitz:
“Not defending KL, just stating that there has been worst than him.”

Um…thanks?

Xodus:
“No one tries to act as if Kobe is perfect (well, maybe pfunk36 does), but for you to act as if you don't understand why a lot of Lakers fans hate Shaq is beyond me.

I really don’t understand the “haterade” for shaq. Shaq was the most recent laker to bring a championship to LA (actually, the only 3-peat in laker history) and the dude’s vilified because kobe wanted to be the man instead of being a legend like Magic. I’m certain my view isn’t isolated. It use to be on this blog a negative opinion about kobe would get shouted down. Now the neo-blog is a place where people like vaasa and myself can openly express opinions without fear of being called names. It’s refreshing.

“I mean, you can't seriously tell me that there isn't SOMETHING going on if three NBA cities despise Shaq.”

AK, pointed this out and I’ve changed my position on shaq.

steven V:
“Please provide me and the rest of the Lakers Blog with direct quotes, web site media articles, archived newspaper articles, or even a Youtube video showing Kobe comparing himself as Jordan.”

http://tinyurl.com/5o7rla

Sports illustrated circa 1999.

LTLF:
“Kobe started off the series shooting well, but as his teammates failed and continued to fail, it allowed Boston to clamp down more and more on Kobe and his shooting got progressively worse. Once again, it's not Kobe who compares himself to Jordan, but since YOU continue to push that argument, let's look at how the guys around Jordan did in his first finals:

1991 finals -
Scottie Pippen - 50.4% shooting
Horace Grant - 58.3% shooting
Bill Cartwright - 51.9% shooting
John Paxson - 53% shooting
BJ Armstrong - 50% shooting
Craig Hodges - 42% shooting
Will Perdue - 54.7% shooting
Cliff Levingston - 51.2% shooting”

Have you considered that Jordan gave his guys confidence? Jordan made names out of no-names like Cartwright and Livingston? That’s my main point between the true greats and kobe. True greats know how to elevate the play of others. I’ll give you an example, my high school coach is a great coach because he saw that I lacked confidence. On day after practice, coach said to me “KL, I want you to the 6th man and the defensive stopper”. That gave me confidence to work on my game and be the defensive stopper. To this day, I’m better that defense than offense mostly because I worked like hell to be the “defensive stopper”. Imagine if the star of my team told me the same thing and lobbied coach? Get it?

Posted by: KL | September 22, 2008 at 05:46 PM

Shum,

regarding acceptance of Sun by teammates...you earn it by what you do on the court...

...Larry Bird, although he came into the league with a greater fanfare proved his game throughout the league, not just to his teammates by his play...being in Boston, a team that probably had a greater number of caucasian players than other teams at the time (my memory/assumption) wasn't the reason he succeeded, look at others around his era of caucasan background on the same team that did not succeed to become supertstars....Rick Carlisle as a player, Michael Smith who is or was a Clipper announcer, and a few others come to my mind, give me a break, it's almost 3 am....

Shum, you have this sense of pessimism I sense that you already are fearing failure for Sun. Don't go there. There are hundreds each year that don't make it. Sun has 2 years guaranteed, and though that wil go quick, he'll make it. Like I said, Sasha was practically worthless for 3 years, until last year, his 4th....then whammo...he's the next Mike Miller...but is more irritating on D'. (I said irritating, not better).

hman (hitman?....naaahhhhh....)

AK,

sorry to bother the blog, I'll be quiet for a while, vacation, but about Sun's spiky hair, Chinese can have all kinds of hair, spiky, flat,...mine is wavy and I still have it in my 5th decade, but it's as fine as when I was his age (not spiky, could never stand straight up, but will stand up in all different directions), people ask me if I got "a perm"....I just tell them "Yeah" to F with them, I am vain....so I gotta maintain that image. My other generalization is Chinese tend to have less body hair, like on arms, and legs, underarms, other places...from my personal experience(s) if they have any body hair it is finer, not as coarse as say a Japanese person. I'm gonna catch flak, so I'll end it here....

again....

Anyway, I’m half Chinese so I have to root for Sun Yue. Just me and a billion fans
in China. More Jet Li. More Bruce Lee. More Brandon Lee. Tomorrow’s Lakers may
be the Rottweiler, the Beast, and the Monkey King. LOL.
Tom Posted by: LakerTom | September 22, 2008 at 07:04 PM

Hey! Don't forget Shannon Lee lakerTom. LOL!

"Anyway, I’m half Chinese so I have to root for Sun Yue. "

It couldn't have happened to a better guy.

--Fearless

Don't underestimate the importance of Chris Mihm to the rotations - if he is not healthy/the injuries had a permanent effect, then the Lakers don't have a backup center. That forces the use of Gasol into that role, which he is quite good at, but that, in turn, means that Lamar has to play a lot of PF, which means he doesn't play much SF.

That is not necessarily a bad thing, but an unhealthy Mihm would force the hand of the coaching staff to a significant degree.

BTW - why are we not starving the troll? Isn't it about time the poor little guy got back to school?

Six days until training camp? Is that right?

GO LAKERS!

Six days until training camp? Is that right? GO LAKERS!
Posted by: Jon K. | September 23, 2008 at 08:44 AM

If it's not that was a hell of a weekend I had. lol!

"steven V:
“Please provide me and the rest of the Lakers Blog with direct quotes, web site media articles, archived newspaper articles, or even a Youtube video showing Kobe comparing himself as Jordan.”

http://tinyurl.com/5o7rla

Sports illustrated circa 1999."

So the reference to "There's only two real killers in this league" would mean that Kobe compared himself to Jordan?

I believe that there is confusion on what was meant by this statement.
All Kobe is saying is that he has the same mentality that MJ had.
I think people are misinterpreting this statement to mean that Kobe is saying "I am as great or I am better then MJ".

I see more of an association of mentalities and not the comparison that others (more specifically the media) are portraying. what happens is writers write and article based off a statement. They place their definition in that article and sell it to the public. Then those people who are part of the public (and not use to thinking for themselves) will accept the second hand explanation and definition that is given to them.

Although there may be people who think Kobe "compares" himself to MJ, based on a statement made 9 years ago. We have look at the present day facts and accept Kobe Bryant's recent statement of ""I don't want to be compared to Michael Jordan," and "Let me be me."

Kobe never compared himself to Jordan.