On Kobe Bryant: Love him or hate him ... or maybe just love him
Recently, BK and I did a video clip about the glowing coverage of Kobe Bryant's Olympics and how the notion that Kobe still stirs mostly negative feelings, whether from non-Lakers fans or the media, is something of an outdated concept. As BK put it, "perception not quite catching up to reality." Yes, detractors remain (as is the case for all athletes), but on the obvious whole, Kobe's image and coverage over the last few years (and particularly in 2008) has grown predominantly positive. Well, AOL Sports recently put up a poll asking people to crown a winner among "The 50 Most Hated Sports Figures," a list ranging from athletes to coaches to Chris Berman. Guess who didn't make the cut.
That's right: Dwayne Mitchell.
Or Kobe, for that matter. Which kind of emphasizes what we were saying. Nobody claims that literally no reporter or fan harbors a dislike for Kobe or sees him entirely as the early decade "version" (or "perception," depending on your take). But the tide is undoubtedly turning, which is a good thing.
For those who didn't see the video, we posted it again below the jump. Also, as an FYI, it's being widely reported that Kobe will announce his pinkie surgery date on his website (kb24.com) this Monday.
Oh, and if I voted from their choices, I'm taking Bill Belichick. Can't stand that dude.
AK
Jon (and others, certainly)-
No doubt Kobe is still going to polarize, as many star players will (at the risk of saying something unpopular, the same pro-LeBron, anti-Kobe bias in Cleveland works in reverse here, where many fans and readers perceive anything complimentary towards LeBron as a slight towards Kobe), but overall, the reception Kobe gets on the road is often pretty amazing. Those aren't all die hard Laker fans- he has some of his own.
Some of this depends, I think, on what one defines as "bias" or "hating." Most basketball fans, even the ones that might think that LeBron is a better player or better teammate, still acknowledge Kobe's skill and success. To me, that's not hating. I'm not sure I'd use the "trolls" as a representative sample of how poeple feel about him.
No question, there are basketball fans that don't like him and never will. But it's important to acknowledge how much love he gets, too.
With the media, it seems to me that some are finally letting go of older Kobe storylines that don't necessarily fit with current realities. If you want to call that growth, I think that's fine. Generally speaking, the press Kobe has received over the last couple seasons has been pretty positive. Last year, once the season actually started- people were critical of the Radio Tour, as they should have been- the press was far more positive than negative.
My point, and I think it was Andy's as well, is that just as some media people needed to put older Kobe storylines to bed- even if a guy deserved criticism in 2003 or 2004 for something, should he still be getting it in 2008 or 09 if the "offending" behavior or actions has gone away?- Kobe fans, having spent so much time and energy defending him, also are slow to adjust to the reality that at least today, nobody is out to get him. Five or six positive articles can float by, but the minute one is negative, it's evidence that again "the media" hates Kobe. And I certainly don't believe that every article praising another player, or even one that might say that another player is better is "negative" or "hating," assuming that writer acknowledges how good Kobe is.
Mythbusting takes a while, and it's not uncommon for perception to lag behind reality (it happens in the stock market all the time). I just think that it's time for the myth- and it is that- that "the media hates Kobe", won't write anything positive about him, won't give him his due, or that fans hate him except those core of loyalists, to fade.
BK
Posted by: Brian Kamenetzky | September 07, 2008 at 09:43 AM
Jon's List of Basic Sports/Lakers-Related Thoughts...
1. With Andrew Bynum healthy, the Lakers are going to devastate other teams next year. Period.
2. Shaq will be known in Phoenix as the player who destroyed the Suns and initiated "The Great, Long, Painful Rebuilding"
3. I think the Pistons will beat out the Celtics next year for the Eastern Conference Championship.
4. I hate the Pistons.
5. I hate the fact that Aron Affalo is a Piston. It just doesn't seem right.
6. I'm hoping the Clippers make the playoffs next year. If Mike Dunleavy is truly a good coach, they will. If they don't, Sterling should fire him.
7. I wonder if the Kings will stay in Sacramento. "The Las Vegas Kings" has a nice ring to it, but I kind of like a town like Sacramento having a professional sports team.
8. The UCLA Bruins are ranked. Not necessarily a good thing. We seem to play better when we're not ranked.
9. The UCLA Bruins have the best coaching staff in college football. If Walker/Neulheiser/Chow stick together, we have a real chance at National Championship within five years.
10. I'm worried that Rad Vlad has spent his offseason chasing women on the Montengrian Riveria instead of working on his defense. That would suck.
11. I hope we retain Coby Karl. I think the kid has real potential. He's arguably the third best shooter on the team.
12. Trolls suck.
13. I've got to put together Bio-Chrono readings for Coby Karl, Dwyane Mitchell, and Josh Powell.
14. Kobe needs to get that damned finger fixed instead of going on Oprah.
15. I'm looking forward to watching Pau Gasol dish the ball off to Andrew Bynum as he posterizes a bug-eyed, mouth agape Shaquille O'Neal while wearing a ridiculous looking orange uniform.
Go Clippers!
GO BRUINS!
GO LAKERS!
Posted by: Jon K. | September 07, 2008 at 09:56 AM
BK,
" I just think that it's time for the myth- and it is that- that "the media hates Kobe", won't write anything positive about him, won't give him his due, or that fans hate him except those core of loyalists, to fade."
No, you're right on this one.
Kobe fans need to get over their (our) persecution complex regarding that matter. Things have turned the corner.
I mean, the guy's going to be on Oprah for God's sake! It'll probably be a cloyishly sweet lovefest with a few tears shed before an enraptured audience of clapping females. Kind of gives me the willies thinking about it, but that certainly won't be a case of Kobe being crucified in the press.
Things have changed.
GO LAKERS!
Posted by: Jon K. | September 07, 2008 at 10:01 AM
Let's get this talk outta the way...
AND LETS PLAY!
There's way too damn many questions to be answered this season, and I can't wait.
The lakers have a new team, and after having the hearts broken, will need to rebound psychologically to avoid the Dallas syndrome.
The SUNS are deeper than ever with a new coach, and will have a full season with SHACK to gel.
The HORNETS have Posey - dammnnnnn!
The ROCKETS have RA!
The 76ers got EB!
The mavs have a new coach!
And the clips got camby and BD!
The Blazers have oden!
Posted by: BUTLER | September 07, 2008 at 10:05 AM
Blitz
Agreed, but if the discussion is about 5 best centers, Bill was the best on the perennially best team under the watchful eye of the best organization. If you want to talk best player coaches, he's first "by far".
I've always been a big fan of Russel and that era. Maybe because players like Kareem, Bill Bradley, Bill R were so well spoken and represented the league and the game so well.
Posted by: Vman | September 07, 2008 at 10:47 AM
I'll go out on a limb and suggest that all the controversy makes Kobe a better player. The chip on his shoulder gives Kobe an edge that media darling LeBron James will never have.
Being inner-directed is an advantage in every walk of life. The greatest men and women in history were all controversial figures in their time. Kobe is also his own harshest critic and his goals represent a determination that excellence in achievement trumps everything else.
There are many definitions of a great team mate. Nearly all the Laker players have said at one time or another that Kobe's nearly impossible high standards make them better and that they look up to him because of that.
As for the media folks, they know that every column inch about Kobe gets them readers and that every video highlight gets them viewers.
Kobe stands apart from every other player in the NBA in this regard.
Posted by: Rick Friedman | September 07, 2008 at 10:49 AM
Hmmm... I've segued from watching Sunday morning talking heads shows to reading the latest contentious blogging.
Nice to read your post, Badfinger and glad to see props paid to Magic.
Jon - I especially like #4 and #12. Your post about the Kobe polarization was excellent as well... fact is that we lived in a polarized country and world and we see it every day in everything. Kobe's redemption this year is based in no small part on his decision to be a uniter rather than a divider on the team, really a 180 when you consider everything that went down a year ago. A lot of people took note. A lot of people respected the fact that he did it through actions rather than words (also goes to what groove69 referenced).
Lastly, the whole AOL list is just a joke anyway - part and parcel of their "journalistic" style. They've become the National Enquirer of web engines - they sell content off the "cover" rather than the content.
AK & BK - you guys write real good. Okay, time for my coffee.
Posted by: dave m | September 07, 2008 at 10:49 AM
AK/BK
Methinks you guys agree too much for prime time. It's unnatural for siblings to get along so well. Y'all need to brother battle, maybe end up in a scrum, push the envelope and raise the pay grade.
Think Pardon the Interruption meets Smothers Brothers.
Ya might have to google the last reference. Even I'm too young to remember it.
Posted by: Vman | September 07, 2008 at 10:57 AM
wow busy day in lakerville. So I'll respond in stages lol.
Phoenix was actually an underrated defensive team. They trapped and they made you take care of the ball...something they needed to do to be able to run. They got shaq not because of his defense (though they talk about what he can do on that end) but because of his inside presence offensively. He's someone they can throw the ball to in the paint and see something done. Amare is really more of an activity pf like...and he doesn't take as much space or bodies up as much. The very idea that Shaq is solely for defense is pretty flawed. For one he's obviously a step slower (lots of steps) and his rebounding leaves something to be desired. Last I remember it was Alonzo that was the D.
AM on a rampage, I love! Go AK!
Houston is indeed a defensive team. They have been up there in stats for several years, they got Addelman coz they needed to improve their offense. Though I don't see the point if they're incapable of staying healthy. That's their real kryptonite.
Posted by: | September 07, 2008 at 11:12 AM
"Phoenix was actually an underrated defensive team. They trapped and they made you take care of the ball...something they needed to do to be able to run. They got shaq not because of his defense (though they talk about what he can do on that end) but because of his inside presence offensively. He's someone they can throw the ball to in the paint and see something done. Amare is really more of an activity pf like...and he doesn't take as much space or bodies up as much. The very idea that Shaq is solely for defense is pretty flawed. For one he's obviously a step slower (lots of steps) and his rebounding leaves something to be desired. Last I remember it was Alonzo that was the D."
Indeed! SHACK is not a defensive stopper, never has been, but he's a great rebounder and impact playa. The SUNS were vulnerable to pick and rolls with SHACK last season, but have the perimeter defensive presence now to better handle things (Goran Dragic, Matt Barnes, Alando Tucker).
Robin Lopez should be a good sub for SHACK, a 7-footer who excels in areas where SHACK is weak - defensive ability, although FT shooting is not much better.
Posted by: BUTLER | September 07, 2008 at 11:45 AM
sorry the Go AK post (starting with wow) was from me. Didn't realize my autofill didn't fill lol.
Posted by: Faith | September 07, 2008 at 11:49 AM
LAKERS' BYNUM DECLARES HIMSELF COMPLETELY HEALTHY
by FoxSports.com
http://tinyurl.com/588462
Lakers to sign Bynum to extension before deadline. Here is excerpt:
>>>>>
Bynum is eligible to become a restricted free agent following the upcoming season if he does not negotiate a contract extension with the Lakers. There is an Oct. 31 deadline to sign a deal, which can max out at $80 million over five years according to terms of the collective bargaining agreement.
"We would like to have his future with the club secured by then," Lakers General Manager Mitch Kupchak told the paper.
>>>>>
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | September 07, 2008 at 12:13 PM
Vman,
I don't know whether I will ever agree with ranking of players from 1 to 5 by blitz when in fact they played in different eras. Perhaps, it is best to compare people who played with each other like Wilt and Bill Russell, I give the edge to Bill Russell even if I'm a devout Laker fan. I saw both guys played and Bill is just above the fray. To compare them with Olajuwon, Moses Malone they all did not play each so what is our basis. The 50 greatest players are no longer best 50 when Kobe, Lebron, Wade, Chris Paul are taken into consideration, therefore let the fantasizing rest on who is best? This does not mean we cannot decide on who is the #1 NBA player who ever played the game. Based on national surveys, it is still MJ, let's see when Kobe retires whether that perception will change.
Posted by: Edwin Gueco | September 07, 2008 at 12:18 PM
Celtics....17 World Championships
Lakers....14 World Championships
Clippers....0 World Championships
Suns.........0 World Championships
Butler
Why do you think the Suns have never won anything?
Being in LA we blame the Owner of the Clippers.
BD
Posted by: BD | September 07, 2008 at 12:22 PM
On the hated lists of sports figures, how come Rush Limbaugh was not included. At the turn of the century, they tried to re-create Howard Cossell in Monday Night Football by hiring conservatives like Rush after few broadcasts he was taken of b/c he affected the ratings. He was replaced by a conservative comedian, Dennis Miller and in a years' time, he was replaced as well. It's not how deep are viewers divide but ratings were not paying of so off they go. How about T. J. Simers on radio with Fred Rogin on KLAC? In about few months of broadcasting dissing Kobe, anti Laker, anti dodger, he was taken off the air and dragged along Roggin' but retained by LA Times as their regular columnist? Who read the LA Times Sport News nowadays unless AK/BK highlight them in the thread? haha! Gone were the days when I walked for a mile just to buy a Sunday paper and read my favorite articles about the Lakers. that's what happened with the Tribune hiearchy they become out of touch of the Los Angelinos.
Posted by: Edwin Gueco | September 07, 2008 at 12:42 PM
....sbout Bill Billicek, and I don't care if I spelled his name wrong. I don't give a carp's ants, about him. Maybe he's a big figure out there in football world, but he's not a person that comes to my mind. Which I admit does not hash over either "football" games, US style or soccer. I did not look at the list, but will later. IMHO, he's a coach....and not a principal that deserves to be on this list. If he makes a list such as this, then it goes to show he deserves to be on it, either because he's promoting himself, or he's a total, total A.
...insert my disclaimer here...some of you know it...peace to all...
...off the top of my head...any NASCAR driver....I'm into Formula One, and there was an absolute great finish in a race this am, I was going to wake up at 430 am, but did not get to sleep till 1 am, woke up around 630, and watched the 5 last laps....absolutely great stuff. BTW, I know alot of you don't care, but keep this in mind...the driver who did not succeed today, Kimi Raikkonen, a Finlandian, or I guess you call him a Finn, makes about $60 million dollars a year on salary, lives in the tax haven of either Monaco or Switzerland, and probably takes in another $50 million/year in international endorsements. In the US, his only endorsement may be for Tag Heuer wateches (Tagheuer.com), and he promotes one of their cheaper line of watches. But he's got BANK!!!! ....And I'm not talking about an NBA player making $5 million, getting taxed at probably 40% and having to payoff his posse.
youtube recommendation of the day: "Mika Hakkinen (Kimi's predecessor at Mercedes-McLaren" greatest overtaking move on Michael Schumacher (he was a $100 million dollar A, but 7 time world champ....predecessor at Ferrari to Kimi, who moved from McLaren to Ferrari). Hot Kid on the block, Lewis Hamilton, they say his total earnings will exceed Schumacher's eventually, and this guy is only in his second year, and about 22-24 years old. If he wins a championship, McLaren is going to give him a McLaren F1 LM road car, (youtube it), painted in Bruce McLaren's (New Zealander) Orange. This orange color was a thing of beuty as the Bruce and Denny totally dominated the CanAm series back in the 60's-70's, finishing like 1-2 for races, seasons until Porsche came along, with their 1500 HP car's, and by then Bruce McLaren had already died testing one of his cars at Goodwood (makes me laugh too) England in 1970. That car he was testing eventually became built into a road (street car....they built about a hundred, they say Calvin Klein has 2, Mr. Bean has one or 2...anyone else have a million....when you are done with it, you sell it back to the factory, then they rebuild it for the next fat wallet) I went to go see the site of McLaren's death, as I also went to go see the sight of James Dean's Death on the 50th anniversary of his death. I know, I am dark, and yes LakerTom I am babbling. The only rules for CanAm back then basically were the 4 wheels had to be covered, eventually other things got banned, such as Jim Hall's Charpparal car with rubber skirts to the road, and vacuum's that sucked the car down to the road, increasing downforce. Those were the days, my friends....
...read about doubts or caution on Greg Oden's part, whereas AB talks confidently. Looks like we have at least 10-12 years to debate. Mike Conley, is probably less polished than Jordan Farmar at this point, and there was talk about him being traded to Portland to feed his master....it's a 5 man game, not a 2 man game, go play 2 on 2 at the park....
Posted by: humanomaly | September 07, 2008 at 01:07 PM
...."and one more thing"...
Greatest of all to time (would that be...GOAT???)...I know he had a short, or injury riddled career, and we loved him and hated him, but his winning knack, and contributed genetic material that led to our future overpaid, but loved, bench warmer...how bout Bill Walton...wasn't it 21 outa 22 in the NCAA finals game...(Laettner's shot was luck), I think it was great to watch him and Kareem go at it....trivia question...who played one year in the time between them at UCLA and how did he come to the Lakers and how did he leave...he was a decent rebounder, gotta Finnish.....I think....
Posted by: humanomaly | September 07, 2008 at 01:26 PM
AK
"I get what you're saying, but that's also the nature of being a public figure, which comes with a downside. To expect anything else is simply naive. Everyone judges public figures that they've never met based on what they read, see, hear. For example, you've created deep analytical and psychological profiles for Phil Jackson and what motivates his actions. Unless you're keeping some personal relationship with PJ a secret, you've never met him, either. What's the difference?"
I don't want to belabor all the points you made let's just say we agree to disagree on the growth of the media because Kobe has been pretty consistent in my book.
But I had to address this last point about Phil Jackson..........What's the difference? The difference is huge!
Whenever you watch or play basketball long enough you realize that basketball is simply a microcosm of life. You can see all the character flaws that surface on the floor and can make a reasonble extrapolation about that person in real life.
In Phil Jackson's case you can watch the DECISIONS he makes as a coach and person and draw several conclusions about this guy without throwing a dart at the board.
I will give you a brief list of how I have grown to distrust Phil and his motives especially as it concerns Kobe.
Phil Jackson once suggested (with no evidence and contrary to Kobe's highschool coach) that Kobe would throw games at the beginning so he could be the hero at the end.
This statement by Phil was a direct attack on Kobe's character and furthered the "perception" that Kobe was a selfish player. Although Phil made this statement publicly he NEVER made a public apology to Kobe.
AK
Why would Phil do this?
If you watch Phil's decisions on the bench at times you see a egomaniac just based on the decisions he makes.
Remember the Cleveland game this year? LeBron vs Kobe? Phil's ego took over that game late in the fourth quarter by removing Kobe when the Lakers were up by 1 point only to bring him back in a close game a couple of minutes later and the Lakers went down by 5 in the process. Does anybody remember that?
Phil didn't realize that this game wasn't about him.........it was about Kobe and LeBron.........that's why all the seats were filled and we had a national television audience
I also learned a lot about Phil when he violated cardinal rule number one.........what is in the locker room stays in the locker room.
Not only did Phil violate this code........he wrote a book about it gathering and using all of the personal conversations he had over the course of the season.
He saw Kobe in a vulnarable state at the time of the book and literally tried to bury the guy by calling him uncoachable. Do you remember that?
I could go on and on about Phil but I will spare you for now. But suffice it to say.......I don't have to meet Phil to tell you what this guy is all about all I have to do is look at his evil machinations and come to some reasonable conclusion.
Posted by: pfunk36 | September 07, 2008 at 01:31 PM
Nine Rings
Taking sides against Kobe to divert attention away from shortcomings.
Now, Pfunk36 says that well drying up, who will be the next scapegoat for the zenmiester?
certainly not the red head
Vlade is not important enough,
PJ needs a higher profile person.
Who will it be
Who will it be?
Posted by: Troll Man | September 07, 2008 at 01:53 PM
pfunk36,
If you read Phil's book then you would know that Phil and Kobe ended the 2004 season on good terms. Everyone misuses that "uncoachable" quote. That was something Phil said early in that season.
Posted by: Xodus | September 07, 2008 at 01:58 PM
Robin Lopez is going to be a stiff, come on... first he's a rookie so how much can you really expect out of him, second, if he needs this entire year to "burn in" and become more of a steady contributor then guess what? you're talking about the NEXT YEAR before he contributes anything of value and that means... Shaq and Nash will be ANOTHER year older...
You know what to look forward to this year? Phil Jackson has a team that is stacked and he knows it. These are the times when Phil comes up with his best quotes/taunts in the press for his targets.
Posted by: Stay Thirsty My Friends | September 07, 2008 at 02:36 PM
"Remember the Cleveland game this year? LeBron vs Kobe? Phil's ego took over that game late in the fourth quarter by removing Kobe when the Lakers were up by 1 point only to bring him back in a close game a couple of minutes later and the Lakers went down by 5 in the process. Does anybody remember that?"
He removed Kobe since Kobe was trying to play one on one with Lebron at that point. He didn't want Kobe to try to win it against Lebron and instead win it with his team mates. Plus Kobe was shooting ice cold in the last few minutes so to have Kobe calm down and put him on the bench until Kobe could try to win with his teammates instead a battle with Lebron. I like watching entertainment and one vs one things but I like a win more. Lebron was getting red hot and Kobe was shooting cold since Lebron and Hughes were guarding him. Phil is not perfect but I trust his coaching.
Posted by: thekobebryantblitz | September 07, 2008 at 04:02 PM
Pfunk36,
In terms of the first half of your post, whether or not anyone agrees with the observations/conclusions you've drawn for Phil, there's still an inherent flaw to your overall argument. Your premise that "basketball is a microcosm of life, character flaws can be seen on the floor and added up, that a "reasonable conclusion can be drawn, etc.," allows somebody to work within those exact same parameters and make decisions about Kobe. And according to your earlier statements, people don't have a right to do that because they "don't know him, haven't met him," etc. That's a direct contradiction of yourself. It's much too arbitrary and self-serving to say this line of logic can be applied to one person you happen to dislike and not to another you happen to think the world of. It's either fair game or it isn't. You can't have it both ways.
As for the other part (most specifically the book Phil wrote), I actually agree with a fair amount of what you're saying. The book was a very bad idea on Phil's part and definitely violated the locker room "code." And certainly, Phil has made some comments about Kobe that didn't help Kobe's image (similar to how Kobe's made some mistakes on his own that hurt his image). But at the same time, Phil has also said that he regretted how Kobe was perceived in part because of that book. If memory serves, I think he actually wanted to come back in part because he felt like he owed it to Kobe.
And bottom line, you're talking about something that happened almost five years ago. The two of them, unless incredible actors, are both well past this history and have a deep amount of respect and trust for each other. If it's buried for them, I don't see why you're still carrying a grudge on Kobe's behalf. It just seems kind of pointless (the same way I- and I imagine you- would consider dwelling on the Kobe's earlier career mistakes as pointless). Plus, you're making Kobe out to be a fairly gullible person. According to you, he's being played in obvious Machiavellian fashion by his coach, but can't see it. Is that really how you feel? Because that's either the case or you're wrong about many of these observations. Again, can't have it both ways.
Also, for what it's worth, I appreciated the considerably more civil tone of your last post, which prompted the same tone on my end. Hopefully, our exchanges can remain that way, as the typical back and forth has grown tedious, at least in my mind. Call out my opinions all you want. That's fair game and I welcome it. But I'd prefer a mutual respect displayed, if possible.
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | September 07, 2008 at 05:15 PM
Good topic. Good debate. Good posts.
Go Lakers
Posted by: Rocky | September 07, 2008 at 05:20 PM
HmrHed,
>>>>>I believe Drew will blossom into the next Laker superstar center.
>>>>>I would not be surprised if he’s on the bubble for all star consideration in the west
>>>>>this year. And if he remains on the course that I anticipate he will take – and, most
>>>>>importantly, injury free -- several championships later, he will likely
>>>>>displace Hakeem in the top five.
I agree. Great post. The Next Great Lakers Center.
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | September 07, 2008 at 05:20 PM
mrbarneydangles,
>>>>>Only time will tell how great Drew will be but I think he will one day crack
>>>>>that top five centers of all time list that's a few posts up. Real talk.
I agree. Great post You can see greatness growing in this kid every day.
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | September 07, 2008 at 05:21 PM
Mike.
>>>>>I pray young Bynum is completely healthy for the coming season.
>>>>>I would like to see him, healthy, and going up against center's who weigh
>>>>>more than 270 lbs and who play defensive philosophy type basketball.
>>>>>Good luck Andrew!
Thanks for the good wishes, Mike. I think Drew is going to show all of us a new era in defensive basketball for the Lakers.
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | September 07, 2008 at 05:22 PM
"You laker fans are something! SHACK is a PHX SUN and you can't stand it! "
A couple blogs ago I stated that Butler is an idiot, and I stand by it.
Plus, he can't spell.
If Shaquille O'neill ever became a Laker again it would be the only reason ever that I might stop watching. I never liked him when he was a Laker. Sure there were a lot of positives to his game, but what about the off-season? What about having surgery on company time? What about coming into camp fat and out of shape? What about not making his FREAKING free throws?
Just wait Butler. All the sudden this season he will find an excuse to sit out a quarter of the season so he can try and have energy for the finals. You'll see. He's old, broken down, and all the excuses that used to be "acceptable" are now dog doo.
See ya in the finals.... oh wait - you won't make it that far.
Posted by: longtimelakerlover | September 07, 2008 at 05:22 PM
THANK YOU, JIM BUSS!!!
>>>>>Funny a year ago I would have included Jim Buss in that list.
>>>>>I no longer hate him but I have a tentative "like"/apathy LOL – Faith
It’s been easy to dump on Jim Buss, the boss’ kid who everybody blames for anything bad that happens on the Lakers, but watching the maturation both physically and mentally of Andrew Bynum, I wonder if we should be instead bowing down and thanking Jim Buss. Without a doubt the major reason Andrew Bynum is still wearing purple and gold was Jim Buss’ dogged refusal to consider trading the young center, despite heavy pressure from Kobe, the media, and the Lakers fans to get Kobe some help to become an elite team. Thanks to Jim, Kobe now has that help in a huge dose. The irony is that that help came in the form of Andrew Bynum.
Jim’s faith in Drew reminds of this dad’s faith in a young shooting guard named Kobe Bryant, a player that he clearly would not let go even if it meant trading the best center in the game at the time and a hometown fans favorite, Shaquille O’Neal. Those are the moves that great sports owners make. They don’t micromanage their teams or try to supervise everything like Marc Cuban. Instead, they make those once-in-while make-or-break decisions that determine whether a franchise becomes a winner or loser. Like Jerry did four years ago with Kobe. Like Jim did last year with Drew. I for one have no problem looking forward to Jim taking over the reigns of the Lakers a few years down the line. He looks to me to be a chip of the old block.
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | September 07, 2008 at 05:36 PM
Man, Tom Brady may be out for the year. I hate Tom Brady as much as any player in the NFL, but you never want to see a guy go down.
Posted by: Xodus | September 07, 2008 at 07:09 PM
Well of course the media has turned around a great deal on Kobe. He would not have been voted MVP if they still "Hated" him.
But there is still plenty of hating going on. But they are in the minority and look silly when they rant on. Its usually old stuff when they do bring it up, like when Shaq did his Rap thingy. Several writers used it as a last chance to get in a few final cheap shots about the Colorado incident.
The water has been well passed under the bridge, and gone way down the river.
Many will never forgive or like Kobe. It just goes with the territory when you are a great player showing your skills on the one of the most storied franchises in NBA history, the Lakers.
Why do you think so many of the fans have taken up the "Beat LA" chant around the league. They are jealous and envious of our accomplishments and for some reason feel compelled to make themselves look foolish waving silly signs.
Hating our team and our best player comes natural whether you are a fan or a media writer 'kissing up' to his local base. Who has broken their hearts on many of occasion? The Lakers. And Kobe just happens to be the current Lakers star filling that role of leader and heart breaker.
When Wilt played for the 76's I hated him as selfish and egotistical. But when he came to the Lakers, I realized he was just misunderstood and under-appreciated. lol
Wow, this is getting on too long.
Good nite Lakers faithful.
Posted by: Fatty | September 07, 2008 at 07:11 PM
Dear AB and the blog in general,
When following the the blog last couple of days, I've become aware of your somewhat biased behaviour towards some bloggers like KL etc. I know that he does not get much consideration here because he is so-called "Kobe Hater" but some rules of just behaviour should be respected by overseeing moderators.
You let him back to the blog only to slam him every time he gives an opinion. You are treating him like a child although you have no right to. He is entitled to his opinion. If you are calling him out over his opinions over Shaq you should call out very time the bloggers like LakerTom, all sorts of Mamba fans etc. who make some ubeliavable claims over Bynum (already a legendary center according to them) who are much more more over the top than those of KL on Shaq. Coming from a family of journalists myself, I recognize a manipulation when I see one. Is it really the best way for you to prove that Kobe is not a polarizing figure any more by ridiculing the bloggers who think so?
And in my humblest opinion, his obrservations were not so over the top. The jury is still out there whether any of the top free agents would prefer to play with kobe or instead with super stars who might be more team oriented like Lebron etc.. Concerning KL's comments that the free agents came here to play with Shaq, it is an absolute truth. If you read any media from that time, most people in NBA wanted to play with Shaq because he made the game so much easier for the others with his dominance. That is why Payton and Malone came for less and the same happened in Miami (Payton, Walker, Zo etc.)for their sole championship.
To be clear, I think Shaq has some huge character flaws like arrogance. But same does Kobe (his last spring's pouting withstanding). It is just sad to see so much revisionist history in this blog. It reminds me of my childhood in Soviet Union when the history books were completely overwritten once the system collapsed.
And the people who make the claim that the Dream dominated Shaq in the finals, they obviously haven't seen it themselves. Shaq and Dream played even number wise (Shaq had even an edge in rebounds I think but I might be mistaken) and most analysts at the time said that the center matchup played out evenly. It was the inexperience of other players (remember these 4 missed three throws by Nick Anderson/Dennis Scott, have to look it up which one of them, which could have sealed the game one but that he missed) that dismantled Orlando. It was Shaq's third year in the league (he was only couple of years older than AB now) and he played even the Dream in his prime! And we are not even talking about the year 2000, considered by many ESPN analysts as the most dominant play displayed by any center in the NBA history. I'm going to leave this argument and will add only this. Remember, when Shaq left LA, respected ESPN analysts ran a fictional story anout Shaq vs Wilt (as what could have happened if those two would have actually played against each other) Shaq's teams would have won hands down according to ESPN analysts.
I think you have one of the best sports blogs in the world. It is just sad that people with an agenda to belittle Shaq's accomplisments for this team and the NBA as a whole are not only having an upper hand in this blog but are actively supported by the moderators who should be neutral by definition. Because it is borderline ridiculous how a kid, AB, withouty any accomplishments and a history of injuries is already touted to be one of the greatest of all time in this cyberspace.
I really hope this kind of revisionist history will not backstab you with Kobe whose place in NBA history is far from sealed . Remember how much critics Penny Hardaway received from most NBA analysts until the end of his career of wanting to be "the man" and not being able to assume it. Befire Shaq departure, he was widely considered as "the next Jordan". I've lived long enough to know that tides can turn very quickly and if Kobe will not win a championship as "the main man", sooner or later those detractors will surface again. And last but not least, you would have much less so-called "trolls" here if the analysis here was more even-keeled vis-a-vis your players and the team. And I apologize for any mistakes in my writing, english is only my third language.
Vaasa
Posted by: Vaasa | September 07, 2008 at 07:40 PM
If Barry Bonds is number 6, how about Jeff Kent? He has to be more hated than Chris Berman. The guy has a prickly personality.
Posted by: richard | September 07, 2008 at 07:46 PM
The title of my previous post should be:
"Dear AK and the blog in general"
and not:
"Dear AB and the blog in general"
because I'm writing to AK and not to AB :)
My apologies
Vaasa
Posted by: Vaasa | September 07, 2008 at 07:58 PM
Vaasa,
I figured that was addressed to me, but I wanted to make sure before I responded.
To my recollection, I didn't contest any of KL's observations about Shaq. If he prefers Shaq to Kobe, as I told him, so be it. KL's entitled to his opinion.
What I corrected him over were arguments he made against Kobe based on his misunderstanding how the salary cap works, league rules for trades, when (and how) certain players arrived in L.A., etc. It's not a question of him having an opinion I don't agree with. It's a question of harping on misinformation, which I often do with other readers as well, if for no other reason than to clarify the issue.
And since KL keeps repeating the misinformation despite being explained why it's incorrect, I wondered if the bottom line was just him not liking Kobe and that's never going to change. Which, again, is fine. I've gone out of my way to say that being a Kobe fan isn't a requirement to post here. But if this is a case of "I've made up my mind, end of story," debating further would be pointless. It's not a case of me trying to "belittle" KL. I'm just trying to figure out if this is an actual discussion taking place or him just throwing out ammo against Kobe, even as he knows it's off-base.
I also think you were misunderstanding my general point. I never said Kobe isn't polarizing. I think he still is, just not nearly to the degree that he used to be or is sometimes currently made out to be, whether by fans or the media.
And for what it's worth, I have advised readers to let players prove themselves before declaring them the next great thing (or a bust, for that matter), whether Bynum, Jordan Farmar, Sun Yue, etc.
Hope that helps,
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | September 07, 2008 at 08:20 PM
AK
Has Luke recovered from ankle surgery? And have you seen him working out to prepare for upcoming season?
Posted by: chuck23 | September 07, 2008 at 09:03 PM
Vassa,
Walker was traded to Miami, and he sucked by that point in his career, as did Gary Payton. Yes, Zo did sign with Miami after Shaq came, but that was more because of the fact that the Heat was a championship contender (yes, because of Shaq). Shaq and Zo actually hated each other before they became teammates. Shaq routinely made fun of Zo for years, saying he wasn't an elite center etc.
I don't care if KL hates Kobe, either just like AK. I just felt the need to jump in when he was making baseless claims. Like if elite guys want to play with Lebron so bad why didn't Michael Redd sign with him a few years ago when they would have been one of the best teams in the East? Because that's not how the NBA works. Guys play for the most money they can get, 99.9% of the time. The only guys who take less money are guys that sometimes re-sign with their same team for less money, like Arenas and Duncan.
Posted by: Xodus | September 07, 2008 at 09:18 PM
Anyone who thinks Wilt or Bill Russell were better than Jordan are crazy. Jordan was the greatast player that ever played the game of basketball. I hope I won't have to justify it..It's so obvious by looking at tapes and looking WHO their competition was. You put Jordan in Wilts or Bill's era and he would have killed people! Jordan would have averaged 50 a game as a 6'6 guard! Russell would not win 10 championships today! Some of you Old timers need to look at reality a little bit. Practically everyone averaged over 15 rebounds a game in the 60s. That stat right there should tell you how much weaker the league was back then.
Posted by: zen | September 07, 2008 at 09:33 PM
Chuck23,
I don't know if Walton is fully recovered yet, but I think he's expected to be. I personally haven't seen him working out, but I've also only been to the Lakers facility a couple of times during the offseason, so that doesn't really mean anything.
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | September 07, 2008 at 09:38 PM
zen,
I agree that Jordan is the best player ever, though I wanted to add that since the league only had about 7 teams back in Wilt and Russell's day, so Wilt and Russell were playing against each other and the league's other great plays far more frequently. And since there were so few teams the league wasn't as watered down since all the best talent was concentrated on just a few teams. And the stat that a lot of players averaged 15 boards a game supports that. A lot of guys averaging that many boards is a function of the high talent concentration in the league coupled with the faster pace of the game.
While Wilt was great his stats are padded by the fact that he played in a much FASTER paced era with more possessions. With more possessions that means more scoring opportunities and more rebounding opportunities.
I don't like comparing guys across generations since you're assuming what would happen in a different era. Stephon Marbury would have been the best player in the league if he played in the 60's and Larry Bird would have been even terrible defensively and at least a bit less effective offensively playing against the NBA's current athletes. Does that make Starbury among the best players ever and Larry Bird not? Of course not, which is why I don't think it's a fruitful practice to say player X would accomplisy Y in era Z.
Personally, I like looking at the guys individual and team accomplishments relative to their accomplishments. Jordan won 6 titles in 8 years and was an unbelievable scorer and defender in his time, thus I rate him as the best ever. Wilt was unbelievable in his era and won two titles and would have won more had the Celtics not been so stacked. Russell is third because of his defensive dominance and 11 rings.
Posted by: Xodus | September 07, 2008 at 09:53 PM
AK,
"And for what it's worth, I have advised readers to let players prove themselves before declaring them the next great thing (or a bust, for that matter), whether Bynum, Jordan Farmar, Sun Yue, etc."
....yes and that is why speculation and prediction is just an exercise, or something to do to pass the time, it's not worth arguing and bickering over...
personal opinions are personal opinions...so even if someone loves kwame's calves, he has a right to do so, whether we agree or not is our choice.
thanks for this land to dream and hope in, bros.....
h.
Posted by: humanomaly | September 07, 2008 at 09:58 PM
Zen,
Nobody is claiming Wilt or Bill better than MJ. My point is that you have to respect those players at the start of sixties. You CAN"T compare them to todays players based on rebounds or dunks, or comparing players in dfferent era because there is different b'ball culture, different time. Bill Russell and Wilt and other oldtimers carried the development of the sport we love today where there were few audiences and also fans under the flame of racism. They won't compete with your MJ, he's still the best player and you don't have to use statistics.
Posted by: Edwin Gueco | September 07, 2008 at 10:01 PM
Mike T.,
Your case of KBB (Kwame Brown Blindness) seems to get worse with every passing day of the off-season. It is also causing you to regress into strange posts about the defensive "philosophies" of other teams.
1. Kwame Brown will not start for the Pistons unless McDyess suffers a terrible injury. Which you will probably begin praying for... now. God forbid that it actually happens, because then you will take credit for it for the rest of the season.
2. The Suns will not be among the top ten defensive teams in the league. Period. Shaq cannot play defense. Nash will not play defense. Diaw does not play defense. Amare... hates to play defense, unless it's volleyball spiking shots out of bounds.
3. Kwame Brown will not start for Detroit unless... oh, wait, we've already been down that road. It's hard to stop repeating that in my head, because you've been suffering from KBB for so long now.
I hope that you have NBA League Pass so that you can watch every Pistons game. That Kwame Brown will NOT be starting in.
Go Lake Show!
Posted by: The Outlaw | September 07, 2008 at 10:06 PM
I agree with Outlaw, unless a big trade happens Kwa-may Brown doesn't seem to be in the starting lineup. Brown wasn't really in the interest of Deeetttttrrrrrooooiiiiittttt Basketball until the really good free agents like Corey Maggette, James Posey, and Elton Brand were off the market. Brown if anything is built for depth and as a low risk, high reward player. He will get time I imagine due to Detroit having very few solid big men but McDyess and Sheed will be starting at the front court.
Posted by: thekobebryantblitz | September 07, 2008 at 11:22 PM
To the 2 lost souls posting news of the Pistons & the Sun in this LAKERS blog, if you like those teams so much go to their respective blogs. Stop trying to push your team on us. To the idiot who said that Shaq has a delightful character, say that agian when they start losing and He blames everyone for losing the game except himself, it happened when he played with the lakers, when he played with the heat and it going to happen again and again. His head and his ego is too big and he has became too lazy allowing his body to deteriorate and totally slow his game down to a walk his conditioning is horrendous add that with the natural progression of age and you have a very very
average slow player who is costing his team alot in luxury tax payment. As i said before stop smoking whatever you are smoking because it's starting to affect your mind. To the Moron who thinks Kwame Brown is the next Great NBA Star, stop trying to push him on US because you are the only one stupid and crazy enough to think that way.
Go Lakers !!!
Posted by: Frankie | September 07, 2008 at 11:25 PM
rdlee,
I am curious as to why you put Will Clark on your most hated list. I grew up in the Bay Area and never heard anything bad about him. Actually he happened to be (and still is) my favorite baseball player. You are entitled to your opinion, but I am interested to see if you have an actual reason why you hate him.
Posted by: Lights Out Lakers | September 08, 2008 at 12:45 AM
And for what it's worth, I have advised readers to let players prove themselves before declaring them the next great thing (or a bust, for that matter), whether Bynum, Jordan Farmar, Sun Yue, etc.
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | September 07, 2008 at 08:20 PM
Yeah. Good luck with that.
Wes
Posted by: wesjoenixon | September 08, 2008 at 03:03 AM
I hear a beast is on the lose ...
I hear a beast is looking for vengance ...
I hear he craves celtic blood, but will settle for any team in his path ...
I hear a beast is on the lose seeking to wreak havoc ...
I hear a beast is on a rampage taking no prisoners ....
Oh what a terrible fate awaits those caught on a basketball court without a purple and gold jersey ...
I hear some escaped from blood thirsty beast only to be kissed goodbye by the mamba .. oh what a terrible fate indeed
Let them hate ... it will not help their cause ... a dynasty is within our grasp ... oh what a terrible fate awaits our haters
Posted by: Taliq | September 08, 2008 at 03:32 AM
Mike T,
This has to be you ...
http://kr.youtube.com/watch?v=RF4xOJTCxDo&feature=user
man your case is compelling.
Posted by: Joon | September 08, 2008 at 04:14 AM
humanomaly,
What's the point of a sports blog if there's no need to debate and prove our points? I know guys like KL and LGC have made an art form out of it, but is it too much to ask to have a little meat to back up the claim that (insert name here) is the greatest player ever?
Posted by: Xodus | September 08, 2008 at 08:17 AM