Jamie,

I agree, I guess it's easy to look at what Phil does and becasue we dont have the full picture it can seem senseless...but he does always have the bigger picture in mind and his teams always peak at the end of the season.

Everyone refers to his championships to make arguments for his greatness but I look at the bulls team the season after Jordans first retirement...I look at the laker team that overachieved and pushed the suns to seven games - go back and look at that roster! - to me he's done enough in the non championship seasons to show he's very skilled at what he does.

Multiple championships don'tjust happen becasue you have great players ...that argument is hopeless and look at the spurs - why have they not been able to repeat? three threepeats.That is good coaching.His ego does get the better of him and that 'last season' book was just poor in every single possible way but you've got to take the good with the bad ...but Phil's pretty much got the most out of every team he's had and theres ALOT of players who have had the best success of their careers playing for him....People always talk about Shaq and Jordan and Kobe etc making him look good? I'd argue that he's made alot of players look better than they are and aside from the stars how many lesser players have had the best success of their careers under him?... or have got a start as a result of him finding a role for them and in many cases never been that effective again?...

it would be good to see Rambis get a go...but if we are contending team I'd want a proven coach with playoff experience if Phil was to hang it up.

HmrHed,

First Laker game is 3 weeks from tomorrow against the Jazz in Anaheim.

"Gotta disagree here. Yes Mbenga did learn from KAJ as did Bynum. Kwame and Candi man refused to accept KAJ's help. Big difference."

I didn't say Kwa-may accepted Kareem's help, it was Jerome James.

[I will have to see the whole post again as I do belive you did mention Kwame Brown. I will review.]

Kandi Man did get Kareem's help he just didn't develop properly, neither did Jerome James.

[Candi man thought he was all that and didn't accept the help. In honesty I don't recall much about Jerome James.]

Andrew Bynum had Kareem's help in 05-06 and 06-07 especially what happens? At the end of the season he becomes subject of trade talk.

[That was because PJ refused to use him, insulted him at every opportunity instead of helping him. I attribute this because AB was a Jim Buss pick and PJ had to prove him wrong by playing Kwame Brown over him. When Kwame got injured PJ had to use AB. He still insisted Kwame would get his starting job back over AB even though AB was tearing up the league. In all AB forced the issue to be starter.]

Only when Bynum busted his butt in Atlanta did he emerge the center that he could be.

[Not really he was already breaking out but PJ refused to develop the talent. In Phx series AB was already drawing double teams but PJ refused to exploit this further and stuck with Kwame. We know the results.]

Mbenga is by no means an even role player, just a mere garbage time player, Memphis Grizzlies he fouled in in 3 quarters LOL! Some type of defensive potential Mbenga has, 6 fouls in 3 quarters against one of the worst teams in the NBA!

[ That is your opinion and are entitled to it. But I disagree. If memory serves me right I think Mihm ranks right up there with foul per minutes, fouling out quickly. Also Mbenga improved with KAJ helping, especially his defense. ]

Mbenga sucks beyond being a guy who has a very interesting history and a fan favorite. 2 other coaches besides Phil Jackson waived his butt (Avery Johnson and Don Nelson) not because they are so negative but because they knew that he had limited skill and wasn't even a player to be considered seriously.

[again pre KAJ]

PJ will rank over Byron Scott and Coach K. At least Coach Jackson has won a title sooner than Coach K. who couldn't even win a title in the tournament since 2000-2001 season LOL!

[comparing NBA to college ball is irrational. College teams have fast roster turnover due to players leaving early for draft. NBA has time to develop teams more. Not a valid comparison. As far as PJ ranking over B. Scott, what crystal ball are you looking into? B. Scott has come closer and faster to championship level long befor PJ at their current tenure in coaching.]

Coach K. will NEVER come in the NBA, he just wants to stay at Duke and continue to not even make it to the Final Four despite having very good 5 star players.

[See above. ROFLMAO]

LOL!.

-blitz

Posted by: thekobebryantblitz | September 15, 2008 at 02:06 AM

JustaLakerFan

Other than his one NBA Finals appearance, I think that Baby B (Byron Scott) hasn't shown that he deserves to be in the HOF. I think he's a good coach, but not on the same level as Phil. Phil changes the way a player approaches the game. It is diificult to understand for some people I think because he looks so hands off and aloof during games.

[I didn't say B. Scott deserved to be in HOF. I said if he continues his success at this rate he will merit getting into HOF. It is too early to tell but after time we all will know. Of course I think PJ is aloof because again in my opinion he claims success of teams for his coaching or lack of, to the play of his great players.]

I liken his style of coaching tot hat of a director of a play. You have a group of actors who are looking for guidance, they know what their job is (memorize their lines, get comfortable with their blocking) but they often need motivation and guidance to create a full and nuanced performance.

As a director, you can only give them so much. You will not be onstage, after all, they will. So they have to learn to walk on their own. Phil does the same thing in games. He's not playing crappy defense, he's not throwing that length of the court pass out of bounds, he can make substitutions and draw a play or two on his mini white board. Even then, those plays are often modified by the personell on court due to circumstances beyond the coaches control.

[Yourt right he does not make the bad passes but he destroys players especially in media instead of helping. Take AB for example. He yelled and read the riot act beause AB tried to make a pass , tried to pull it back but couldn't and got turnover. This despite all the good AB was doing. I never saw PJ tear into Luke and he definitely made many many bone headed passes.]

Phil is also a more cerebral coach than say, Don Nelson, who is still a great basketball mind, but tries to put his foot print on the game too much. He messes with players heads with strange line ups and rotations in an effort to out fox the other coach. So it was no big surprise to me when Baron Davis fled what was a potential playoff team for a riskier situation (although having the opportunity to play with EB was a factor I'm, sure).

[ I don't think so celebral as much as the old saying goes. Better to remain quit and thought of as a fool, than open my mouth and remove all doubt. In this case better remain quit and thought of celebral than open my mouth and be exposed as a fool. 12 million is a lot to risk as a fool.]

All in all, Phil is the perfect coach for the Lakers, he knows how to keep a team trying to improve. He's gotten better at being a nurturing disciplinarian as opposed to a tyrannical disciplinarian. I think he's been instrumental in giving Sasha the confidence and opportunity to become the player we see today, and hopefully get even better. I think he will have the same affect on Farmar.

[ He took 4 years to coach Sasha and I believe it was Sasha's friendship with Kobe and Kobe inspiring Sasha to improve. I won't even get into the Farmar thing.]

After Phil, I'd like to see Kurt Rambis get another shot. I thought he did a great job in the lock-out season after we canned Del Harris.

What do you all think?

[ I thought Kurt did a commendable job in his stint as head coach. I don't think he was ready then and didn't have the respect of the players. Rodman drove him crazy to the point Kurt finally told Rodman to get outta here from practice, as he well should have.

But he failed when I believe it was Eldon Cambell ordered a pizza and had it delivered to practice. Since Kurt didn't say anything Eldon then proceeded to eat the pizza in the huddle. Kurt should have made Eldon throw the pizza out and not to pull stunts like that at practice. I hope he learned from that experience.

I still think Byron is better choice and even coach K would be and I know Kobe would be all over supporting coach K. That is my take.]

Posted by: Jamie Sweet | September 15, 2008 at 09:24 AM

JustaLakerFan

Is that Elden Campell story about the pizza true? That would be a huge strike agianst.

Regarding Andrew Bynum, I always thought that Phil did a pretty good job of trying to remove pressure from the young lad, he was always being quoted as saying not to expect too much out of him early on. That he was a good 3 - 4 years from being a starter. than, when Kwame went down, instead of going with Turiaf (the more developed player) he went with the kid and the rest is history.

Sorry about misconstruing your B. Scott HOF remark. I agree that if he can get his team into the playoffs with some consistency, he may be a candidate because of his on-the-court career as well. But with only one Finals appearance to date and PJ coached sweep to show for it, at this time I don't see it happening.

What everyone sees with Phil are the stars sitting down the bench from (MJ, Pippen, Shaq, Kobe), but they always seem to ignore the Luc Longleys, Mark Madsen's and the like. He can make a poor player fit in with a player like MJ or Kobe because he can see what skills that player brings. He doesn't sign guys or make trades, and he has never asked for that job.

I think Dr. Buss would've fired Mitch in a heartbeat if Phil said, "I'll come back and coach, but I want to be the GM." But unlike Pat Riley and Don Nelson, I would imagine he doesn't want to wear that many hats. Of course he has input, (what organization wouldn't at least ask their coach if a player would be a good fit...OK, Atlanta) but he is respectful of the heirarchy within the front office.

At the end of the day, there isn't another coach in the league that I would trade for. The man has done what he said he would, he alwys gets results ahead of schedule (although one could argue that's juts smart PR) and he's a proven winner. For all of the success' that other coaches have had over the last 20 years, Phil Jackson, Pat Riley and Gregg Popovich are the only guys to win multiple rings and nobody comes close to Phil.

Phil winning 9 championships is a feat matched in today's NBA by only one player...Kobe. When Kobe scored 81, it was a like a portal to the NBA past was opened. When Red Aurebach won his rings, there were less than half the teams that are playing today. What Phil has done will likely not be repeated for some time.

I can see why people have a big issue with him, he lets his guys fail and then rips into them...but I never really feel sorry for millionaire athletes. It's OK when they get yelled at, in my opinion. I want him to beat Red as a Laker coach more than I can say here.

Anyhoo, I look forward to the season, have fun watching and yelling at Phil (i'll be doing the same...I am human and want a win more than anything)...let's win it, folks.

Jamie,

>>>>>At the end of the day, there isn't another coach in the league that I would trade for.
>>>>>The man has done what he said he would, he always gets results ahead of schedule
>>>>>(although one could argue that's juts smart PR) and he's a proven winner.
>>>>>For all of the success' that other coaches have had over the last 20 years,
>>>>>Phil Jackson, Pat Riley and Gregg Popovich are the only guys to win multiple
>>>>>rings and nobody comes close to Phil.

Sweet posts about Phil responding to JustaLakerFan, with whom I am usually always in agreement. The thing about Phil Jackson, which I have brought up before, is that you cannot evaluate his performance as a coach using a microscope and nitpicking about his sometimes questionable in-game moves and strategies. I have screamed so many times about his poor substitution patterns, unredeemed faith in dogs like Kwame and Smush, and horrible selection of plays for end-of-game situations. The microscope brings all of those negatives to light.

But Phil is really about team building, both on the individual and collective basis. He sees the big picture, the forest if you will, which in the end more than accounts for his idiosyncrasies in his coaching during the game. He knows how to match players with roles and how to get stars to sacrifice their individual games in search of a championship. He is the master. Riley and Pop are acolytes but the god of basketball coaching on the pro level is undeniably Phil Jackson.

To me, wanting to replace Phil after he took a Bynum-less Lakers team within two wins of the NBA Championship is a severe overreaction. I personally think Phil did a lousy job adjusting in the Finals, but so did Kobe, Pau, Lamar and the rest of the players. Replacing Phil would be idiocy when he may have just turned in the best coaching job of his career. Frankly, I hope he signs another three-year extension as soon as the current contract expires. He is the best.

Tom

To me, wanting to replace Phil after he took a Bynum-less Lakers team within two wins of the NBA Championship is a severe overreaction. I personally think Phil did a lousy job adjusting in the Finals, but so did Kobe, Pau, Lamar and the rest of the players. Replacing Phil would be idiocy when he may have just turned in the best coaching job of his career. Frankly, I hope he signs another three-year extension as soon as the current contract expires. He is the best.

Tom

Posted by: LakerTom | September 15, 2008 at 07:16 PM

==========================
LakerTom,

Late reaction to last paragraph but I can't resist myself.
Signing PJ for 3 more years is like voting for McCain for Bushes 4 more years! LOL.